yes you can plateau, happens to a lot of people.
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yes you can plateau, happens to a lot of people.
hey guys which type of carbs is better to eat when its your carb up days, high glycemic or low glycemic carbs?
any help is greatly appriciated
[QUOTE=kevinmelo;785010773]hey guys which type of carbs is better to eat when its your carb up days, high glycemic or low glycemic carbs?
any help is greatly appriciated[/QUOTE]
Start your carb-up with a big PWO shake, then start eating clean complex carbs. Concentrate on stuff like oats, brown rice, sweet potato, root vegetables, wholegrains, low fat dairy and lean proteins. Avoid junk food, and I strongly suggest you avoid any form of sugar or white flour.
perfect thank you very much for the info
much appreciated
[QUOTE=MeMyselfandEye;785130123]Start your carb-up with a big PWO shake, then start eating clean complex carbs. Concentrate on stuff like oats, brown rice, sweet potato, root vegetables, wholegrains, low fat dairy and lean proteins. Avoid junk food, and I strongly suggest you avoid any form of sugar or white flour.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=rorii;783771113]Man, keto is more complex than i thought. All i thought was, low in carbs (aim for <30grams)and high in fat and protein, then eat whatever you want on the weekend to "carb up".
I've seem to have lost 6-7KG so far being on this diet for a 1.5months and gained some muscles as well. Im currently 82KG and about 175cm tall.
Anyone knows where i can buy ketosticks in Australia?
Back to more reading...[/QUOTE]
I agree, it is harder than I thought. My biggest problem is getting enough fat. I love chicken breast but 4 oz is like 1.5g fat and 25g protein so I gotta always work to get enough fat in. Usually end up doing the evoo shots to compensate.
I've purchased some bars (Doctor's Carbrite Diet bars) and the ticket says if I am "carbconscious" I should only count 2.5gram towards my daily card consumption, out of 23 grams this bar contain because 20.5grams are "Glycerine, Lactitol and Maltitol with 1gram of Fiber" - is this correct that these types of carbs are not counted towards normal carbs on Keto diet?
[QUOTE=ukraine;785714603]I've purchased some bars (Doctor's Carbrite Diet bars) and the ticket says if I am "carbconscious" I should only count 2.5gram towards my daily card consumption, out of 23 grams this bar contain because 20.5grams are "Glycerine, Lactitol and Maltitol with 1gram of Fiber" - is this correct that these types of carbs are not counted towards normal carbs on Keto diet?[/QUOTE]
Lactitol and Maltitol are sugar alcohols, and they will cause a blood sugar spike. They also give some people "digestive issues". Others may not count them, I always count them and mostly stay away from them.
A lot of companies use terms like "non-impact carbs" to sell you stuff.
[QUOTE=Blackjack68;785727133]Lactitol and Maltitol are sugar alcohols, and they will cause a blood sugar spike. They also give some people "digestive issues". Others may not count them, I always count them and mostly stay away from them.
A lot of companies use terms like "non-impact carbs" to sell you stuff.[/QUOTE]
So its total crap and they should be counted towards daily intake unlikey fiber?
p.s. It says that they hardly cause "a noted impact on blood sugar" and are excluded from total daily value.
[QUOTE=ukraine;785764213]So its total crap and they should be counted towards daily intake unlikey fiber?
p.s. It says that they hardly cause "a noted impact on blood sugar" and are excluded from total daily value.[/QUOTE]
Have a glucose meter? Check it for yourself, everyone is a little different so maybe it won't affect you. I've tested several kinds of "low-carb" bars like that, including Atkins, and they've all raised my sugar.
Dreamfields Pasta is one of my favorite "low-impact" scams.
"Low-carb" and "Low Impact" mean very different things to the Keto'er than to the diet/marketing industry.
hey guys how many grams of carbs should i intake on my last workout before carb loading.
for example in my post workout shake from dextrose?
For the big PWO shake that starts your carb-up, I'd go 50g whey and 50g of dextrose. I suggest lots of ice, it's a bit sickening.
[QUOTE=Eileen;786475993]For the big PWO shake that starts your carb-up, I'd go 50g whey and 50g of dextrose. I suggest lots of ice, it's a bit sickening.[/QUOTE]
Thank you very much, greatly appreciated
I'd really like some help. I've been on keto for 3 weeks yet barely dropped any inches off my waist. I'd like to start over with diff numbers. My waist is 34 inches, my neck is 15 inches, my height is 69 inches, and I'm 185 pounds. Can someone help me with my estimated body fat %age?
Also is eating too much protein (around 10-20g more than what im supposed to) bad for this diet? Is the reason why i'm not dropping the inches off my waist because of too much fat or too many calories? Please help!
[QUOTE=SmallCap;789545303]
Also is eating too much protein (around 10-20g more than what im supposed to) bad for this diet? Is the reason why i'm not dropping the inches off my waist because of too much fat or too many calories? Please help![/QUOTE]
20g more protein won't hurt you at all. I'm usually higher on the protein than what's recommended. If you're not in a calorie deficit, you're not going to lose weight. What are your macros/calorie intake/maintenance level?
I'm eating at around 2275 calories cause 185x15 - 500 is around that many calories. I started at 195, I lost 10lbs but barely anything off the belly.
I've read extensively on the diet and have implemented what seems to be a good diet
I weigh in at about 189 lbs and working on a formula that allows for a -500 cals from maintenance...I am getting about 2330 cals per day and done in 5 meals.
Using a 70:30 split fat: protein.
Started Monday and meals are a follows:
1. 4 eggs with 1 tbs butter
2. 90 gr of cooked bacon
3. 100 gr of cooked chciken breast and 29gr of Caesar salad dressing with about 30 gr of sunflower seeds
3. same as 2
5. same as 3.
Bought a glucose monitor and so far by today which is now Thursday...my mmol has remained in the 5-5.6 mmol which is still up near the 100 mg/dl...way too high for ketosis to commence.
To validate this...got the keto strips and likewise...nary a tint of purple.
As can be seen by avatar I am a competitive BB and whilst not quite as lean as when I comped about 1 month ago, I have added maybe 4 kg. So still very lean.
Have been doing an hour weight session in gym each day.
My questions are:
1. How do the meals look
2. Should I not already be in ketosis?
3. Was planning a carb-up...ala the BodyOpus plan on Sat and sun - should I wait and go for the two weeks before this?
Have been considering asking the doc for a script for metformin which is a glucose dispersal agent which is supposed to hasten ketosis GREATLY...like with 24 hrs...any views on this
TIA
Bob
[QUOTE=Bl4ckfl4g;785153083]I agree, it is harder than I thought. My biggest problem is getting enough fat. I love chicken breast but 4 oz is like 1.5g fat and 25g protein so I gotta always work to get enough fat in. Usually end up doing the evoo shots to compensate.[/QUOTE]
You can get keto stix from any reasonable sized pharmacy.
[QUOTE=yakabebe;793361883]I've read extensively on the diet and have implemented what seems to be a good diet
I weigh in at about 189 lbs and working on a formula that allows for a -500 cals from maintenance...I am getting about 2330 cals per day and done in 5 meals.
Using a 70:30 split fat: protein.
Started Monday and meals are a follows:
1. 4 eggs with 1 tbs butter
2. 90 gr of cooked bacon
3. 100 gr of cooked chciken breast and 29gr of Caesar salad dressing with about 30 gr of sunflower seeds
3. same as 2
5. same as 3.
Bought a glucose monitor and so far by today which is now Thursday...my mmol has remained in the 5-5.6 mmol which is still up near the 100 mg/dl...way too high for ketosis to commence.
To validate this...got the keto strips and likewise...nary a tint of purple.
As can be seen by avatar I am a competitive BB and whilst not quite as lean as when I comped about 1 month ago, I have added maybe 4 kg. So still very lean.
Have been doing an hour weight session in gym each day.
My questions are:
1. How do the meals look
2. Should I not already be in ketosis?
3. Was planning a carb-up...ala the BodyOpus plan on Sat and sun - should I wait and go for the two weeks before this?
Have been considering asking the doc for a script for metformin which is a glucose dispersal agent which is supposed to hasten ketosis GREATLY...like with 24 hrs...any views on this
TIA
Bob[/QUOTE]
Have you done keto before?
Definitely wait two weeks before you do your first carb-up.
It is possible to be in ketosis and not see a change on the ketostrips. Did you notice a day pissing a like a race horse, followed by a drop in weight of several pounds? That's your body shedding the water weight as it enters ketosis.
Looking at that food, I can't see how you can avoid ketosis. Perhaps if you were a morbidly obese diabetic, but that's clearly not the case. Athletes generally burn through their glycogen stores quickly and go into ketosis within a couple of days.
On a food note, bacon can be part of a good keto diet, but I'd rather see oily fish like mackerel than bacon twice a day.
I'd try ALA rather than metformin. You must have a very helpful doctor!
hey guys i've a question , i dunno should i start TKD or CKD i like the TKD more but what can i replace the dex with ??
Ya I can't do keto I would die lol
[QUOTE=dided;793704503]hey guys i've a question , i dunno should i start TKD or CKD i like the TKD more but what can i replace the dex with ??[/QUOTE]
Why do you need to replace it with anything?
[QUOTE=Eileen;793588083]Have you done keto before?
Definitely wait two weeks before you do your first carb-up.
It is possible to be in ketosis and not see a change on the ketostrips. Did you notice a day pissing a like a race horse, followed by a drop in weight of several pounds? That's your body shedding the water weight as it enters ketosis.
Looking at that food, I can't see how you can avoid ketosis. Perhaps if you were a morbidly obese diabetic, but that's clearly not the case. Athletes generally burn through their glycogen stores quickly and go into ketosis within a couple of days.
On a food note, bacon can be part of a good keto diet, but I'd rather see oily fish like mackerel than bacon twice a day.
I'd try ALA rather than metformin. You must have a very helpful doctor![/QUOTE]
Thanx, Eileen for your help...you deserve a medal!
Will do the fortnight of keto to see how she goes.
This AM, on the AM of the 5th day...upon waking...and using imagination... there's the slightest tinge of colour on the keto stix...;(
Using the blood glucose measuring strips... seeing the average value is about 100 and keto will kick in at about 50 or less...its a bit discouraging and confounding to see a score come up of 98 on the Am of the 5th day with ZERO carbs.
Perseverance is the order of the day.
BTW...the rationale behind the fish vs bacon in the meals?
Re the ALA...what dosage and timing thru the day do you suggest to enhance the ketosis?
Thanx again
Doing my first 36 hours carb-up tomorrow and I still have some questions unanswered. I really need your help.
I've done the maths and came up with this:
LBM (kg): 52,14
Carbs (36 hours): 520
Carbs (Friday Night): 130
Carbs (Saturday): 390
Prot (36 hours): ????
Prot (Friday Night): ????
Prot (Saturday): ????
Fat (36 hours): 52
Fat (Friday Night): 13
Fat (Saturday): 39
As you noticed, I'm really not sure about how much protein I should be taking. 52*2.2 friday night and another 52*2.2 saturday?
Otherwise, does my carbs and fat looks ok?
I'd really appreciate an answer before tomorrow so I can plan what I'll eat, roughly. Thanks so much.
[QUOTE=Eileen;793796743]Why do you need to replace it with anything?[/QUOTE]
well its expensive in my country and it takes lots of time to order from bb.com so i need anything else
Guys, I need an answer to my previous post! Please!
[QUOTE=dided;794139033]well its expensive in my country and it takes lots of time to order from bb.com so i need anything else[/QUOTE]
You kidding? It's the cheapest supp there is. It's also sold as glucose, and you should be able to find it any supermarket (baking or baby section), phramacy or health food shop.
[QUOTE=Nyanja;793952453]Doing my first 36 hours carb-up tomorrow and I still have some questions unanswered. I really need your help.
I've done the maths and came up with this:
LBM (kg): 52,14
Carbs (36 hours): 520
Carbs (Friday Night): 130
Carbs (Saturday): 390
Prot (36 hours): ????
Prot (Friday Night): ????
Prot (Saturday): ????
Fat (36 hours): 52
Fat (Friday Night): 13
Fat (Saturday): 39
As you noticed, I'm really not sure about how much protein I should be taking. 52*2.2 friday night and another 52*2.2 saturday?
Otherwise, does my carbs and fat looks ok?
I'd really appreciate an answer before tomorrow so I can plan what I'll eat, roughly. Thanks so much.[/QUOTE]
This is my fourt attempt to answer this, it keeps deleting before I can post.
Anyway, you need to be pretty ripped before you can benefit from a 36 hour carb-up. If fat loss if your goal, you mght be better with a one day carb-up. Set calories according to your goal. 10% above maintenance for fat loss, about 30% above maintenance (your real maintance) for muscle gain. Reverse the macros, so 65% carbs, 30% protein and 5% fat.
[QUOTE=Eileen;794180353]This is my fourt attempt to answer this, it keeps deleting before I can post.
Anyway, you need to be pretty ripped before you can benefit from a 36 hour carb-up. If fat loss if your goal, you mght be better with a one day carb-up. Set calories according to your goal. 10% above maintenance for fat loss, about 30% above maintenance (your real maintance) for muscle gain. Reverse the macros, so 65% carbs, 30% protein and 5% fat.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for going through the bugs to answer me!
I might try your approach on my next carb-up. It makes more sense for my situation. Although, I am going to switch to a bulk right after this carb-up so it might be helpful.
Otherwise, do you think my current macros are ok for this 36 hours carb-up? And what about prot intake?
[QUOTE=Nyanja;794185353]Thanks for going through the bugs to answer me!
I might try your approach on my next carb-up. It makes more sense for my situation. Although, I am going to switch to a bulk right after this carb-up so it might be helpful.
Otherwise, do you think my current macros are ok for this 36 hours carb-up? And what about prot intake?[/QUOTE]
Set protein at about 30% of calories, and it's no harm if it drifts a bit higher.
As for the rest, it really depends on your metabolism, workout intensity, muscle mass, age and general health. To some extent, I feel the carb-up is a black art. While there are formulae you can use to work out your keto cals that work for almost everyone, but the carb-up varies so much that you need to do a certain amount of trial and error to see what works best in your own case.
Try those macros and see how they work for you. If you don't like the results, try adjusting them next time.
I think I'm more confused than I was before...
You say 10-30% over maintenance cals but.. that stands for a one day perdiod. Now, what about 36 hours?
[QUOTE=Nyanja;794283103]I think I'm more confused than I was before...
You say 10-30% over maintenance cals but.. that stands for a one day perdiod. Now, what about 36 hours?[/QUOTE]
You have to do your sums for the half day. Keto meals until the depletion workout and carb-up, the higher calorie carb meals for the rest of the day.
As a quick example, if your normal keto meal is 300 cals, then your carb-up meals might be 450 cals each.
Commencing 6th day of keto.
Still nary a ketone colour change on stix (grrrrr) and even more frustrating...my measured blood glucose this AM was...5.6mmol...smack dab in the mid range...;(
Diet
1. 4 eggs with 1 tbs butter
2. 90 gr of cooked bacon
3. 100 gr of cooked chciken breast and 29gr of Caesar salad dressing with about 30 gr of sunflower seeds
3. same as 3
5. Pepperoni Omelet "pizza"...3 egg omelet topped with 50g of sliced pepperoni and with 5 g of Parmesan sprinkled over it
B/W is DROPPING and doing so AMAZINGLY fast. I started Monday AM at 86.6 kg which to you guys on CONUS is 190.5 lbs.
This morning I am 80.6kg.....177.3 lbs
Being a competitive body builder and still very lean...I am very much aware of glycogen depletion and he relationship of the water bonding and as one depletes and sheds the associated bonded water, the body weight drops.
But this much??? Happy as Larry but still...be nice to get the cues that ketosis is established. For the head..more than anything else.
For those interested, with a b/w of 86.6kg(190.5lb) calculated my LBM (lean body mass) to be 73.7kg....a touch over 162 lbs.
Food intake then calculated using a 15 cal per lb of LBM.... less 500 cal per day to cut.
Then, using a 1g of protein per lb basis, allocated the remainder to fat.
Hence, starting at 2,835 cals less the 500, gives me 2335 cal per day
Protein of 162g @ 4 cal/g gives me 648 cals a day
Which leaves 1,687 cals from fat - divided by 9 cal/g... gives me 187g of fat per day
Summary:
2335 cal per day
Protein: 162 g....648 cal per day
Fat: 187g.....1,687cal per day
Then divide by 5 meals leads to a macro breakup per meal of:
Protein: 32.5 g
Fat: 37.4 g
Added 3 cups of green tea per day
Two coffees with a 1/4 tablet of stevia sweetener
Am doing a 1 hour heavy weight workout per day this week and next week, will revert to the Monday and Tuesday body-split with a full depletion workout of 2 hours on Friday.
Supplements at the moment:
Chromium picolinate
Alpha lipoic acid
Cinnamon extract
These are suggested glucose dispersal agents to allegedly assist in ketosis...started them yesterday. If no success, will consider metformin
^ thats awesome stuff
[QUOTE=yakabebe;794387023]Commencing 6th day of keto.
Still nary a ketone colour change on stix (grrrrr)[/QUOTE]
Don't worry much about the stix, if you're very well hydrated, it won't change color even though you're in ketosis.
[QUOTE=Blackjack68;794591363]Don't worry much about the stix, if you're very well hydrated, it won't change color even though you're in ketosis.[/QUOTE]
Ta...but what do you make of the blood sugar stability.
Im wondering about how bloody good I am at using fats and proteins in my metabolism to the point where they are being converted to sugars...there's a term for it, I seem to recall
Here it is....
Gluconeogenesis
Gluconeogenesis pathway with key molecules and enzymes. Many steps are the opposite of those found in the glycolysis.
Gluconeogenesis (abbreviated GNG) is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as lactate, glycerol, and glucogenic amino acids.
It is one of the two main mechanisms humans and many other animals use to keep blood glucose levels from dropping too low (hypoglycemia). The other means of maintaining blood glucose levels is through the degradation of glycogen (glycogenolysis).[1]
Gluconeogenesis is a ubiquitous process, present in plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, and other microorganisms.[2] In animals, gluconeogenesis takes place mainly in the liver and, to a lesser extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, low-carbohydrate diets, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. For example, the pathway leading from pyruvate to glucose-6-phosphate requires 4 molecules of ATP and 2 molecules of GTP. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis. Gluconeogenesis is also a target of therapy for type II diabetes, such as metformin, which inhibits glucose formation and stimulates glucose uptake by cells.[3]
Contents [hide]
1 Entering the pathway
2 Location
3 Pathway
4 Regulation
5 References
6 External links
[edit]Entering the pathway
Lactate is transported back to the liver where it is converted into pyruvate by the Cori cycle using the enzyme lactate dehydrogenase. Pyruvate, the first designated substrate of the gluconeogenic pathway, can then be used to generate glucose.[4]
Catabolism of proteinogenic amino acids. Amino acids are classified according the abilities of their products to enter gluconeogenesis:[5]
Glucogenic amino acids have this ability
Ketogenic amino acids do not. These products may still be used for ketogenesis or lipid synthesis.
Some amino acids are catabolized into both glucogenic and ketogenic products.
All citric acid cycle intermediates, through conversion to oxaloacetate, amino acids other than lysine or leucine, and glycerol can also function as substrates for gluconeogenesis.[4] Transamination or deamination of amino acids facilitates entering of their carbon skeleton into the cycle directly (as pyruvate or oxaloacetate), or indirectly via the citric acid cycle.
Whether fatty acids can be converted into glucose in animals has been a longstanding question in biochemistry.[6] It is known that odd-chain fatty acids can be oxidized to yield propionyl CoA, a precursor for succinyl CoA, which can be converted to pyruvate and enter into gluconeogenesis. In plants, specifically seedlings, the glyoxylate cycle can be used to convert fatty acids (acetate) into the primary carbon source of the organism. The glyoxylate cycle produces four-carbon dicarboxylic acids that can enter gluconeogenesis.[4]
In 1995, researchers identified the glyoxylate cycle in nematodes.[7] In addition, the glyoxylate enzymes malate synthase and isocitrate lyase have been found in animal tissues.[8] Genes coding for malate synthase gene have been identified in other [metazoans] including arthropods, echinoderms, and even some vertebrates. Mammals found to possess these genes include monotremes (platypus) and marsupials (opossum) but not placental mammals. Genes for isocitrate lyase are found only in nematodes, in which, it is apparent, they originated in horizontal gene transfer from bacteria.
The existence of glyoxylate cycles in humans has not been established, and it is widely held that fatty acids cannot be converted to glucose in humans directly. However, carbon-14 has been shown to end up in glucose when it is supplied in fatty acids.[9] Despite these findings, it is considered unlikely that the 2-carbon acetyl-CoA derived from the oxidation of fatty acids would produce a net yield of glucose via the citric acid cycle.[6]
Glycerol, which is a part of the triacylglycerol molecule, can be used in gluconeogenesis.
[edit]Location
In humans, gluconeogenesis is restricted to the liver and to a lesser extent the kidney.[10]
In all species, the formation of oxaloacetate from pyruvate and TCA cycle intermediates is restricted to the mitochondrion, and the enzymes that convert PEP to glucose are found in the cytosol.[11] The location of the enzyme that links these two parts of gluconeogenesis by converting oxaloacetate to PEP, PEP carboxykinase, is variable by species: it can be found entirely within the mitochondria, entirely within the cytosol, or dispersed evenly between the two, as it is in humans.[11] Transport of PEP across the mitochondrial membrane is accomplished by dedicated transport proteins; however no such proteins exist for oxaloacetate.[11] Therefore species that lack intra-mitochondrial PEP, oxaloacetate must be converted into malate or asparate, exported from the mitochondrion, and converted back into oxaloacetate in order to allow gluconeogenesis to continue.[11]
[edit]Pathway
Gluconeogenesis is a pathway consisting of eleven enzyme-catalyzed reactions. The pathway can begin in the mitochondria or cytoplasm, depending on the substrate being used. Many of the reactions are the reversible steps found in glycolysis.
Gluconeogenesis begins in the mitochondria with the formation of oxaloacetate through carboxylation of pyruvate. This reaction also requires one molecule of ATP, and is catalyzed by pyruvate carboxylase. This enzyme is stimulated by high levels of acetyl-CoA (produced in β-oxidation in the liver) and inhibited by high levels of ADP.
Oxaloacetate is reduced to malate using NADH, a step required for transport out of the mitochondria.
Malate is oxidized to oxaloacetate using NAD+ in the cytoplasm, where the remaining steps of gluconeogenesis occur.
Oxaloacetate is decarboxylated and phosphorylated to produce phosphoenolpyruvate by phosphoenolpyruvate carboxykinase. One molecule of GTP is hydrolyzed to GDP during this reaction.
The next steps in the reaction are the same as reversed glycolysis. However, fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase converts fructose-1,6-bisphosphate to fructose 6-phosphate, requiring one water molecule and releasing one phosphate. This is also the rate-limiting step of gluconeogenesis.
Glucose-6-phosphate is formed from fructose 6-phosphate by phosphoglucoisomerase. Glucose-6-phosphate can be used in other metabolic pathways or dephosphorylated to free glucose. Whereas free glucose can easily diffuse in and out of the cell, the phosphorylated form (glucose-6-phosphate) is locked in the cell, a mechanism by which intracellular glucose levels are controlled by cells.
The final reaction of gluconeogenesis, the formation of glucose, occurs in the lumen of the endoplasmic reticulum, where glucose-6-phosphate is hydrolyzed by glucose-6-phosphatase to produce glucose. Glucose is shuttled into the cytosol by glucose transporters located in the membrane of the endoplasmic reticulum.
[edit]Regulation
While most steps in gluconeogenesis are the reverse of those found in glycolysis, three regulated and strongly exergonic reactions are replaced with more kinetically favorable reactions. Hexokinase/glucokinase, phosphofructokinase, and pyruvate kinase enzymes of glycolysis are replaced with glucose-6-phosphatase, fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase, and PEP carboxykinase. This system of reciprocal control allow glycolysis and gluconeogenesis to inhibit each other and prevent the formation of a futile cycle.
The majority of the enzymes responsible for gluconeogenesis are found in the cytoplasm; the exceptions are mitochondrial pyruvate carboxylase and, in animals, phosphoenolpyruvate carboxykinase. The latter exists as an isozyme located in both the mitochondrion and the cytosol.[12] The rate of gluconeogenesis is ultimately controlled by the action of a key enzyme, fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase, which is also regulated through signal transduction by cAMP and its phosphorylation.
Most factors that regulate the activity of the gluconeogenesis pathway do so by inhibiting the activity or expression of key enzymes. However, both acetyl CoA and citrate activate gluconeogenesis enzymes (pyruvate carboxylase and fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase, respectively). Due to the reciprocal control of the cycle, acetyl-CoA and citrate also have inhibitory roles in the activity of pyruvate kinase.
Global control of gluconeogenesis is mediated by glucagon (released when blood glucose is low); it triggers phosphorylation of enzymes and regulatory proteins by Protein Kinase A (a cyclic AMP regulated kinase) resulting in inhibition of glycolysis and stimulation of gluconeogenesis, thus bringing blood glucose levels up.[13]
[QUOTE=yakabebe;794595613]
Im wondering about how bloody good I am at using fats and proteins in my metabolism to the point where they are being converted to sugars...there's a term for it, I seem to recall[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=yakabebe;794596303]Here it is....
Gluconeogenesis[/QUOTE]
I guess it's possible, but I'm betting you're in already. Strict diet, workouts, and you've dropped a bunch of water weight which is one of the common signs. You might try taking a stix reading before you workout (so you haven't burned the ketones) and after going for a couple hours without liquids.
[QUOTE=Blackjack68;794605943]I guess it's possible, but I'm betting you're in already. Strict diet, workouts, and you've dropped a bunch of water weight which is one of the common signs. You might try taking a stix reading before you workout (so you haven't burned the ketones) and after going for a couple hours without liquids.[/QUOTE]
Im cool with stix now!
Woke up this am with no reading and a BG level still at 5.1
Went and did some gardening here in the tropics purposefully with no water for about an hour to dehydrate a bit and then tested the stix.
a. the urine has a distinctive odour...like cats wee...and
b. as the song goes
"Purple haze all in my brain
Lately things just don't seem the same
Actin' funny, but I don't know why
'Scuse me while I kiss the sky"
But the BG is still 5.8mmol or a touch over 100mg/dl
The question I now have is if
a. the urine has that odour and
b. stix are reading purple
but c. BG is still average
......am I in ketosis?
The reason I ask is ketosis in the presence of a low BG does its thing. But how is ketosis even started with the normal BG levels?
Blood glucose levels don't drop that low on keto, they just don't have big swings. The distinctive smell and the ketostix say you are in ketosis.
[QUOTE=Eileen;795226323]Blood glucose levels don't drop that low on keto, they just don't have big swings. The distinctive smell and the ketostix say you are in ketosis.[/QUOTE]
Thanx, Eileen.
Weight this AM is still going down...was 78.8kg or 173.3 lbs. Amazing really seeing I started on Monday at 86.6 kg or 190.5lb and quite lean to start with. Going to do a b/f caliper measures today.
Any sample meals (maybe websites that generate meals based on the macro and calorie needs) you could point me at where using the 2,335 cals per day and the 32.5g P and 37.5g F is maintained?
Im not all that creative at devising meals. I keep using the eggs, bacon, chicken, Ceasar dressing and sunflower or pecan nuts.
[QUOTE=yakabebe;794922713]Im cool with stix now!
"Purple haze all in my brain"
[/QUOTE]
Lol, good. Feel better now? :)
Get some veggies in there. Spinach, Asparagus, Green Beans, Cauliflower, Broccoli. I like to put a 5lb bag of chicken thighs in the crock pot with a head of cabbage and eat on that all week long. Saves a lot of prep time.
I also like to make a big meal out of a salad. Greens, Chicken Breast, a little cheese, Caesar or Ranch, some bacon, black olives, a cut up boiled egg, pork rinds/cracklins in place of croutons.
The amount of weight you lose in keto (and regain in carb-up) is directly proportional to the amount of lean mass you carry.
My basic meals are mushroom and herb omlette for breakfast, fish and big green salad for lunch with olive oil dressing, or pan-fried fish and vegetables in winter, steak or roast chicken and piles of green veg for dinner. Those vary a lot, depending on what is in season or on sale. I'll often make stews or casseroles because I'm feeding the family as well.
[QUOTE=Blackjack68;795341013]Lol, good. Feel better now? :)
Get some veggies in there. Spinach, Asparagus, Green Beans, Cauliflower, Broccoli. I like to put a 5lb bag of chicken thighs in the crock pot with a head of cabbage and eat on that all week long. Saves a lot of prep time.
I also like to make a big meal out of a salad. Greens, Chicken Breast, a little cheese, Caesar or Ranch, some bacon, black olives, a cut up boiled egg, pork rinds/cracklins in place of croutons.[/QUOTE]
Yo uall who eat veggies are way ahead of me as I really hate them. Lettuce I dont mind but the rest....uggghh!!
Might try that salad with the bits as you described. We dont have much pork rinds here...not that I've checked but you dont often hear of 'em.
[QUOTE=Eileen;795348583]The amount of weight you lose in keto (and regain in carb-up) is directly proportional to the amount of lean mass you carry.
My basic meals are mushroom and herb omlette for breakfast, fish and big green salad for lunch with olive oil dressing, or pan-fried fish and vegetables in winter, steak or roast chicken and piles of green veg for dinner. Those vary a lot, depending on what is in season or on sale. I'll often make stews or casseroles because I'm feeding the family as well.[/QUOTE]
Thanx for that....you mentioned earlier a preference for me to go to fish rather than use the bacon for two meals.....rationale for that?
[QUOTE=yakabebe;795382983]
Thanx for that....you mentioned earlier a preference for me to go to fish rather than use the bacon for two meals.....rationale for that?[/QUOTE]
Bacon, though it has good macros, also has a lot of nitrites and other undesirable stuff. Oily fish also had great macros, but no junk, and it's full of omega 3.
Hey guys, I'm confused (again).
I'm switching from my keto cut to a keto bulk next monday. Now, I've read that keto CKD isn't the best to gain muscle mass. The thing is I really like keto so far and my body reacts very well to it.
Do you think I could get a good bulk out of Keto? I'm planning on going 2500cals (enough?) but I'm not sure about carb-ups. Should I do a mid-week carb-up (eat carbs in the morning with some protein; then switching back to keto for following meals) or a small 6 hours carb-up after a depletion workout on friday? How much carbs should I take in these time lengths?
Please, any help will be greatly appreciated!
I've seen some good results on a keto bulk. More frequent carb-ups, and when you are doing carb-up, pile on the brown rice, sweet potato, oatmeal etc. Keep fat low, so lots of chicken and brown rice, tuna and sweet potato (and salsa) etc. And of course, lift like a madman.
[QUOTE=Nyanja;796222653]Hey guys, I'm confused (again).
I'm switching from my keto cut to a keto bulk next monday. Now, I've read that keto CKD isn't the best to gain muscle mass. The thing is I really like keto so far and my body reacts very well to it.
Do you think I could get a good bulk out of Keto? I'm planning on going 2500cals (enough?) but I'm not sure about carb-ups. Should I do a mid-week carb-up (eat carbs in the morning with some protein; then switching back to keto for following meals) or a small 6 hours carb-up after a depletion workout on friday? How much carbs should I take in these time lengths?
Please, any help will be greatly appreciated![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Eileen;796243573]I've seen some good results on a keto bulk. More frequent carb-ups, and when you are doing carb-up, pile on the brown rice, sweet potato, oatmeal etc. Keep fat low, so lots of chicken and brown rice, tuna and sweet potato (and salsa) etc. And of course, lift like a madman.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your reply Eileen!
Lyle stated in one of his book:
"One other thing should be discussed relative to carbs and that
is the mid-week carb spike. Basically, this is an option that I
suggest you try to promote anabolism. You are allowed up to 1000
calories of carbs with some protein in the morning on Wednesday (you
should ideally have a training session later that morning or in the
evening so that ketosis can be reestablished) but then have to go
back to low carb eating. With proper carb-choices (i.e. glucose
polymers), it's possible to spike yourself back into ketosis with
this meal alone. Me, I'll keep my donuts handy."
I'll probably try this method of carb-up. Oatmeal in the morning with a shake. Then, if I have good results, I might consider doing another small one Sunday evening (as I will be lifting Monday, Wed and Friday). What do you think?
On another note, is 2500cals enough for bulking? I'm 134lbs 13% BF.
Thanks.
never tried yet to bulk on keto...but what i understand so far...you can correct me if im wrong... if your maintenance level is 2000cals, on cut you will eat like 1500cals..and carbup around your maintenance level or a bit higher... but on bulk if you eat 2500 (500 over your maintenance) your body will put the extra as fat on your body... i was thinking eating 2000 cal week days...and lets say around 3000cals carbup something like twice a week... im rigth or wrong?
[QUOTE=denis791;796392261]never tried yet to bulk on keto...but what i understand so far...you can correct me if im wrong... if your maintenance level is 2000cals, on cut you will eat like 1500cals..and carbup around your maintenance level or a bit higher... but on bulk if you eat 2500 (500 over your maintenance) [b]your body will put the extra as fat on your body[/b]... i was thinking eating 2000 cal week days...and lets say around 3000cals carbup something like twice a week... im rigth or wrong?[/QUOTE]
No that doesnt appear to right.
From an excellent article by LM
What About Fat Gain?
Possibly the biggest fear many individuals on a ketogenic diet have about the carb-load is the potential to regain body fat due to the high number of calories being consumed (almost double maintenance during the first 24 hours). We will see that fat gain during the carb-up should be minimal as long as a few guidelines are followed.
In a study which looked surprisingly like a CKD, subjects consumed a low-carb, high fat (but non-ketogenic) diet for 5 days and depleted muscle glycogen with exercise (21). Subjects were then given a total 500 grams of carbohydrate in three divided meals. During the first 24 hours, despite the high calorie (and carb) intake, there was a negative fat balance of 88 grams meaning that fat was actually lost during the period of high-carbohydrate eating. When muscle glycogen is depleted, incoming carbohydrates appear to be used preferentially to refill glycogen stores, and fat continues to be used for energy production. Additionally the excess carbohydrates which were not stored as glycogen were used for energy (21). In general, the synthesis of fat from glycogen (referred to as De Novo Lipogenesis) in the short term is fairly small (22,23). During carbohydrate overfeeding, there is a decrease in fat use for energy. Most fat gain occurring during high carbohydrate overfeeding is from storage of excessive fat intake (24).
Therefore as long as fat intake is kept relatively low (below 88 grams) during the carb-up phase of the CKD, there should be a minimal fat regain.
In a similar study, individuals consumed a low-carb, high fat diet for 5 days and then consumed very large amounts of carbohydrates (700 to 900 grams per day) over a five day period (25). During the first 24 hours, with a carbohydrate intake of 700 grams and a fat intake of 60 grams per day, there was a fat gain of only 7 grams. As with the previous study discussed, this indicates that the body continued to use fat for fuel during this time period. In the second 24 hours, with an intake of 800 grams of carbohydrate and a fat intake of 97 grams, there was a fat gain of 127 grams (25) indicating that the body had shifted out of 'fat burning' mode as muscle glycogen stores became full. This is unlike the suggestions being made for the CKD, where the carbohydrate intake during the second 24 hours will be lower than in the first 24 hours.
A large fat gain, as seen in this study would not be expected to occur on a CKD. As long as fat intake is kept low and carbohydrate intake is reduced to approximately 5 gram/kg lean body mass during the second 24 hours, fat regain should be minimal. Once again, individuals are encouraged to keep track of changes in body composition with different amounts and durations of carb-loading to determine what works for them. Those looking to maximize fat loss may prefer only a 24 hour carb-up. This allows more potential days in ketosis for fat loss to occur as well as making it more difficult to regain significant amounts of body fat.
[QUOTE=yakabebe;796480781]No that doesnt appear to right.
From an excellent article by LM
What About Fat Gain?
Possibly the biggest fear many individuals on a ketogenic diet have about the carb-load is the potential to regain body fat due to the high number of calories being consumed (almost double maintenance during the first 24 hours). We will see that fat gain during the carb-up should be minimal as long as a few guidelines are followed.
In a study which looked surprisingly like a CKD, subjects consumed a low-carb, high fat (but non-ketogenic) diet for 5 days and depleted muscle glycogen with exercise (21). Subjects were then given a total 500 grams of carbohydrate in three divided meals. During the first 24 hours, despite the high calorie (and carb) intake, there was a negative fat balance of 88 grams meaning that fat was actually lost during the period of high-carbohydrate eating. When muscle glycogen is depleted, incoming carbohydrates appear to be used preferentially to refill glycogen stores, and fat continues to be used for energy production. Additionally the excess carbohydrates which were not stored as glycogen were used for energy (21). In general, the synthesis of fat from glycogen (referred to as De Novo Lipogenesis) in the short term is fairly small (22,23). During carbohydrate overfeeding, there is a decrease in fat use for energy. Most fat gain occurring during high carbohydrate overfeeding is from storage of excessive fat intake (24).
Therefore as long as fat intake is kept relatively low (below 88 grams) during the carb-up phase of the CKD, there should be a minimal fat regain.
In a similar study, individuals consumed a low-carb, high fat diet for 5 days and then consumed very large amounts of carbohydrates (700 to 900 grams per day) over a five day period (25). During the first 24 hours, with a carbohydrate intake of 700 grams and a fat intake of 60 grams per day, there was a fat gain of only 7 grams. As with the previous study discussed, this indicates that the body continued to use fat for fuel during this time period. In the second 24 hours, with an intake of 800 grams of carbohydrate and a fat intake of 97 grams, there was a fat gain of 127 grams (25) indicating that the body had shifted out of 'fat burning' mode as muscle glycogen stores became full. This is unlike the suggestions being made for the CKD, where the carbohydrate intake during the second 24 hours will be lower than in the first 24 hours.
A large fat gain, as seen in this study would not be expected to occur on a CKD. As long as fat intake is kept low and carbohydrate intake is reduced to approximately 5 gram/kg lean body mass during the second 24 hours, fat regain should be minimal. Once again, individuals are encouraged to keep track of changes in body composition with different amounts and durations of carb-loading to determine what works for them. Those looking to maximize fat loss may prefer only a 24 hour carb-up. This allows more potential days in ketosis for fat loss to occur as well as making it more difficult to regain significant amounts of body fat.[/QUOTE]
Hey what book or books do you guys get all this information from on Keto diet, and bulking on a keto diet if you dont mind me asking?