1)Do i need to workout during the induction phase?
2)What type of cardio should i do high, med, or low?
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1)Do i need to workout during the induction phase?
2)What type of cardio should i do high, med, or low?
[QUOTE=kevinmac;606352073]1)Do i need to workout during the induction phase?
2)What type of cardio should i do high, med, or low?[/QUOTE]
Depends on your body type. I'm 10 days in I do medium cardio for 20 minutes after a 20 minute weight lifting session. I've been dropping about a pound a day. That maybe too much who knows. I do that after my I lost my first 6 pounds my body fat percentage dropped 0.4 %. It works but it's tough at first but you adjust and carbs become an afterthought(except on carb days). Oh just to give you and idea. I started at 6'4 329 26.6 percent body fat and when I weighted in at 324 I check again I was down to 26.2 but I'm currently at 318.
I hope this thread remains active, as I am following this diet and could use some support. Today is my first carb-up and I'm a bit confused. Should I fast until 2 hours before my final workout? Also, are you all eating salad veggies or green leafy veggies during the week or just high fat/high protein?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.
[QUOTE=ChicaBella;606727923]I hope this thread remains active, as I am following this diet and could use some support. Today is my first carb-up and I'm a bit confused. Should I fast until 2 hours before my final workout? Also, are you all eating salad veggies or green leafy veggies during the week or just high fat/high protein?
Thanks in advance for your feedback.[/QUOTE]
I eat broccoli and leafy vegetables, no carrots or anything like that. That is mainly for fiber. I read the first 20 pages of this thread and the consensus seems to be eat fruit 2 hours before your last workout. Somehow it gets your body ready for the carb load. I can't lie though, I don't think I"m eating enough really. I'm probably taking in 28-3000 calories when it should be 35-3800. Just can't force feed my self with so much meat and fat. I feel like a carnivore for real. I also recommend this page]ht tp: //f orum.b odybu ilding.com/a rchiv e/index.ph p/f-14 3.htm l. It has a lot of recipes. I made some keto peanut butter cups(my favorite candy) and it really helped with my sugar cravings. GL!
[QUOTE=moasis;606810923]I eat broccoli and leafy vegetables, no carrots or anything like that. That is mainly for fiber. I read the first 20 pages of this thread and the consensus seems to be eat fruit 2 hours before your last workout. Somehow it gets your body ready for the carb load. I can't lie though, I don't think I"m eating enough really. I'm probably taking in 28-3000 calories when it should be 35-3800. Just can't force feed my self with so much meat and fat. I feel like a carnivore for real. I also recommend this page]ht tp: //f orum.b odybu ilding.com/a rchiv e/index.ph p/f-14 3.htm l. It has a lot of recipes. I made some keto peanut butter cups(my favorite candy) and it really helped with my sugar cravings. GL![/QUOTE]
Thanks for responding. Should I continue to eat fat, protein, and veggies during the day, eat my fruit 2 hours before my workout, then start carb loading?? That's the part I'm confused about. I had my regular LC breakfast this morning, but nothing since then. I want to be careful that I don't eat too many carbs along with fat in the same day. That would be a disaster!!!
Any feedback would be helpful. Thank you.
[QUOTE=ChicaBella;606820043]Thanks for responding. Should I continue to eat fat, protein, and veggies during the day, eat my fruit 2 hours before my workout, then start carb loading?? That's the part I'm confused about. I had my regular LC breakfast this morning, but nothing since then. I want to be careful that I don't eat too many carbs along with fat in the same day. That would be a disaster!!!
Any feedback would be helpful. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
I know with myself I ate like I normally do the entire day except for the fruit part and then that night I started eating High GI carbs and you taper into Low GI carbs by the next 24 hours. Be warned.....you will gain a pound or two during carb load but it will fall right off in a day or two. With me, I started my carb load at 322 and was at 324 the first morning of starting again and the next day...... 321. So don't get discouraged. Me personally I weight myself everyday(I know its bad). But I've lost weight everyday except after carb load but that comes right off.
[QUOTE=moasis;606845413]I know with myself I ate like I normally do the entire day except for the fruit part and then that night I started eating High GI carbs and you taper into Low GI carbs by the next 24 hours. Be warned.....you will gain a pound or two during carb load but it will fall right off in a day or two. With me, I started my carb load at 322 and was at 324 the first morning of starting again and the next day...... 321. So don't get discouraged. Me personally I weight myself everyday(I know its bad). But I've lost weight everyday except after carb load but that comes right off.[/QUOTE]
Ok. Thanks. I expect to gain a little weight during the carb loads, which is why I'm going to stay my butt off the scale.
[QUOTE=chrisg;438426]Hey fitnessman!!!
Just a question bout the juice, I've read that fructose (which is what I'm guessing is in juice) is used to refil liver glycogen and not skeletal muscle. Is this right, or am I just talking ****!!! :)[/QUOTE]
Hey, I'm in my 3rd week of Keto and am reading a ton of info on it. So, I will just add my bit on the subject of fructose. Yes, its found in all fruit and so in all fruit juices.
Even during the carb load its been advised that fructose should be avoided as it will only refill liver glycogen which will prevent ketosis from being established until later in the week. Glucose and sucrose are the 2 sugars that are allowed, so keeping that in mind perhaps you could add some glucose (available in powder form) to your post workout shake ?
It makes good sense and I will certainly give it a try.
Great thread. Tons of info. I have a question though. On Fridays when its carb up day do you still try to hit 65/30/5 and all your cals before your depletion workout ?
i've searched around, haven't found much solid info so i'll ask here. Where are the best threads to read about information in regards to bulking and keto? looking for some results, info on how to tailor design the carb ups and what workout program should be followed.
[url]http://atkins.com/Products/ProductDetail1/Chocolate-Peanut-Butter-Bar.aspx[/url] Can these bars kick u out of ketosis with 2net carbs. It sounds shady with all the carbs listed v/s fiber amt.
[QUOTE=noroids;606905243]Great thread. Tons of info. I have a question though. On Fridays when its carb up day do you still try to hit 65/30/5 and all your cals before your depletion workout ?[/QUOTE]
This is my question as well.
"If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss."
Quote on maintainence calorie intake. Have been using it the past couple of months, but just realized it doesn't really account for ones height. someone at 6'1 150lbs and 5'5 150lbs would be different.
[QUOTE=jackhoff87;609006913]"If you don’t know, it is usually 15 times body weight (full body weight here) depending on an individuals metabolic rate. So here, the example would need 3000 calories a day to maintain weight, and 2500 calories to begin fat loss."
Quote on maintainence calorie intake. Have been using it the past couple of months, but just realized it doesn't really account for ones height. someone at 6'1 150lbs and 5'5 150lbs would be different.[/QUOTE]
I suspect that quote doesn't take modern lifestyle into account. For most of us, we commute to a desk job and the only real exercise we get is in the gym, so real life maintenance is much closer to 13 cals per pound. If you have a manual job, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, or cycle to work, then you have to increase. If you are older, or female, or very obese, it could be a lot lower.
[QUOTE=Eileen;609063203]I suspect that quote doesn't take modern lifestyle into account. For most of us, we commute to a desk job and the only real exercise we get is in the gym, so real life maintenance is much closer to 13 cals per pound. If you have a manual job, or are pregnant or breastfeeding, or cycle to work, then you have to increase. If you are older, or female, or very obese, it could be a lot lower.[/QUOTE]
I'm obese, so how lower? My maintenance would be 2509 (193x13). Is this correct?
[QUOTE=ChicaBella;609072333]I'm obese, so how lower? My maintenance would be 2509 (193x13). Is this correct?[/QUOTE]
If you know it, work off your lean mass (total weight minus bodyfat). Otherwise, pick a number between 1500 and 2000 and see if you lose, gain or maintain at that number, and adjust as necessary. Someone who is obese will use more energy just doing everyday stuff, but probably won't do as much intense exercise.
[QUOTE=Eileen;609089713]If you know it, work off your lean mass (total weight minus bodyfat). Otherwise, pick a number between 1500 and 2000 and see if you lose, gain or maintain at that number, and adjust as necessary. [/QUOTE]
Okay. I do know my lean body mass, so I'll run the numbers.
[QUOTE=Eileen;609089713]Someone who is obese will use more energy just doing everyday stuff, but probably won't do as much intense exercise.[/QUOTE]
I'm obese, but do high intense exercise 5 days a week. Does this mean I will burn even more calories throughout the day? I sure hope so, lol...
[QUOTE=noroids;606905243]Great thread. Tons of info. I have a question though. On Fridays when its carb up day do you still try to hit 65/30/5 and all your cals before your depletion workout ?[/QUOTE]
Could someone please answer this question for me? Thank you.
Yes, the more intense exercise, the more you can eat. But generally, you burn less calories during exercise than you think, so you can't eat that much more.
You probably already have a pretty good idea of how much you can eat without changing weight. That's your real maintenance, and it's more reliable than any calculator.
[QUOTE=Eileen;609223683]Yes, the more intense exercise, the more you can eat. But generally, you burn less calories during exercise than you think, so you can't eat that much more.
You probably already have a pretty good idea of how much you can eat without changing weight. That's your real maintenance, and it's more reliable than any calculator.[/QUOTE]
You're very helpful. Thank you.
RIGHT pretty much read through this whole thread lol. im really crap with maths. can someone be so kind as to work out my macros for me?
im 170lbs about 10%bf and i started the keto about a week ago but not sure on my numbers, so far im taking in about 100g of fat and 200g protein and 30g carbs. Im thinking i need to up my fat intake but it just seems scary??
[QUOTE=j1mmytt;610247873]RIGHT pretty much read through this whole thread lol. im really crap with maths. can someone be so kind as to work out my macros for me?
im 170lbs about 10%bf and i started the keto about a week ago but not sure on my numbers, so far im taking in about 100g of fat and 200g protein and 30g carbs. Im thinking i need to up my fat intake but it just seems scary??[/QUOTE]
You have 157 lbs of lbm so you should take in 157 lbs of protein a day. I think the ratio is fat 65 protein 30 carb 5 as far as percents go. So 157 grams of protein should be around 30 to 35% of your intake as far as calories goes. I hope I'm right but GL
[QUOTE=moasis;610255343]You have 157 lbs of lbm so you should take in 157 lbs of protein a day. I think the ratio is fat 65 protein 30 carb 5 as far as percents go. So 157 grams of protein should be around 30 to 35% of your intake as far as calories goes. I hope I'm right but GL[/QUOTE]
hmmm ok thanks, so im eating to much protien then?
Just an update for encouragement for those doing this diet. I'm currently at 315 down from 329 and have lost 0.6 percent body fat and I'm on day 16. I've done the Atkins diet before so that maybe the reason my body took to this diet so fast. Haven't been able to workout the last five days but that ends today but I still lose weight. I stretched my carbup to two days and didn't quite eat the healthiest carbs but didn't add any pounds after weighing myself after my second day back on. I like this diet but I think I can only do it in spurts. I'm going to get down to about 290 and eat around 100 carbs a day for a few weeks and then come back.
[QUOTE=moasis;610257713]Just an update for encouragement for those doing this diet. I'm currently at 315 down from 329 and have lost 0.6 percent body fat and I'm on day 16. I've done the Atkins diet before so that maybe the reason my body took to this diet so fast. Haven't been able to workout the last five days but that ends today but I still lose weight. I stretched my carbup to two days and didn't quite eat the healthiest carbs but didn't add any pounds after weighing myself after my second day back on. I like this diet but I think I can only do it in spurts. I'm going to get down to about 290 and eat around 100 carbs a day for a few weeks and then come back.[/QUOTE]
Good job!
so on a keto diet, no matter how many calories you eat (below maintenance, maintenance, or above maintenance, reasonable amounts obviously) you will always lose fat. And as far as muscle goes, if you eat above maintenance you gain muscle and lose fat at the same time and if you eat at maintenance you will keep your muscles and lose fat. (im new to keto so please correct me if im wrong) Thanks.
Not quite. Below maintenance, you'll lose weight. On keto, a higher percentage of that weight should be fat rather than muscle. But if you don't exercise, you can lose muscle, even on keto. Again, if you eat above maintenance, you will gain weight, but if you are not lifting hard, it's as likely to be fat as muscle.
There was a study which found that trained athletes who ate keto at maintenance and trained as usual stayed the same weight but gained a kilo of muscle and lost a kilo of fat.
CKD is a balancing act, trying to balance the fat loss against muscle gain.
[QUOTE=ChicaBella;610290763]Good job![/QUOTE]
Your questions about the carb up,
[url]http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/mcdonald/carb-up-and-ketogenic-diet.htm[/url]
read this carefully and it gives you everything you need to know.
[QUOTE=rcb0424;610974383]Your questions about the carb up,
[url]http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/mcdonald/carb-up-and-ketogenic-diet.htm[/url]
read this carefully and it gives you everything you need to know.[/QUOTE]
Thank you! :)
I just started the diet today and I was wondering if you were supposed to start lifting during the 2 week induction phase or not.
[QUOTE=Blindfaith;349000]The Cyclical Ketogenic Diet: True Fat Loss
In Case You Missed It
So here’s how it breaks down during the week: Sunday through Friday afternoon , you will follow the low carb diet outlined above. Eat fat and protein all day everyday except on workout days because after workouts, you will need to consume strictly just protein—no fat or carbs.
[/QUOTE]
So what should be done when you work out in the morning? Should you follow up workout with just a protein shake then your remaining meals after that consume your fat along with the remaining requirements of you protein?
Yep, lift as usual. If necessary, grit your teeth and keep going. If you find you are really struggling in the gym, you can slack off on the cardio a bit, but keep lifting.
Is the OP from 2002 still the commonly accepted method of CKD or have there been any tweaks made to it in the past 9 years?
Is this the best keto diet to follow for weight loss, this whole keto thing is very confusing in the beginning
thanks in advance
[QUOTE=JJB2003;612720883]I just started the diet today and I was wondering if you were supposed to start lifting during the 2 week induction phase or not.[/QUOTE]
yes, there isnt a time where you shouldnt be lifting.
[QUOTE=The Debonaire;613013983]Is the OP from 2002 still the commonly accepted method of CKD or have there been any tweaks made to it in the past 9 years?
Is this the best keto diet to follow for weight loss, this whole keto thing is very confusing in the beginning
thanks in advance[/QUOTE]
Basically, but if you have a workout that suits you, stick with it. You don't need a special CKD workout.
I'd have a PWO shake of 30g whey, and 10-15g of dextrose, rather than juice.
Trim your carb-up cals and carbs to fit your goals. If you have a lot of fat to lose, you can't eat 700-800g of carbs and expect to lose weight. For max fat loss, carb-up at maintenance cals (whatever your real maintenance is, you already have a good idea of that). For muscle gain and slower fat loss, carb-up at 10-30% above maintenance.
Again, unless you are close to contest ready, you probably won't benefit from 36 hours or more of carb-up. Keep it to one day.
Ok confused! I started this diet on Sunday and to monitor my ketone level I got the Ketone strips. However, I have been going in and out of ketosis. Is this normal the first week or should I be able to stay at that level once I get there.
I am following the diet to a "T" so I dont know what the issue is.
212 pounds at 15.58% BF, Lean Mass 179 pounds (grams of protien)
calorie intake 3180 with a drop of 800 calories for weight loss so that leaves 1664 calories left to consume in fat with only 30 gram or less of carbs.
If my calculations are incorrect or someone know how to fix this please let me know please.
[QUOTE=Eileen;613168683]Basically, but if you have a workout that suits you, stick with it. You don't need a special CKD workout.
I'd have a PWO shake of 30g whey, and 10-15g of dextrose, rather than juice.
Trim your carb-up cals and carbs to fit your goals. If you have a lot of fat to lose, you can't eat 700-800g of carbs and expect to lose weight. For max fat loss, carb-up at maintenance cals (whatever your real maintenance is, you already have a good idea of that). For muscle gain and slower fat loss, carb-up at 10-30% above maintenance.
Again, unless you are close to contest ready, you probably won't benefit from 36 hours or more of carb-up. Keep it to one day.[/QUOTE]
Thats what I was thinking, and I planned on just sticking with my current workout, I'm confident in its effectiveness. And I think i'll just carb up Saturday only, that sounds like a good idea.
Another quick question. Would It be ok if my proteins and fats were 50/50? I plan on taking in about 3200 cals while on keto. Its just a HUGE part of my diet is steak, actually almost all of my diet is steak eggs and milk, obviously I'll cut out the milk, but I planned on eating a lot of steak and eggs
currently I eat 12 whole eggs for breakfast and 2-3 pounds of eye of round steak during the day depending on how I feel. I also drink a lot of milk, close to 1 gal a day. So if I cut out the milk and tapered the eggs and steak to fit into my calorie allowance would that work (i'll get some extra fats in with cheese, oils, nuts, butter etc.)?
I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask, sorry I wrote so much.
Thanks
Edit: I currently take in roughly 300-400 grams of protein a day, would it be alright if I did 1.5 grams per pound of lean bodyweight while on keto? I'm very worried about losing any muscle at all and my body is used to a lot of protein. Or should I just stick to the 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight?
[QUOTE=tyenser;613225853]Ok confused! I started this diet on Sunday and to monitor my ketone level I got the Ketone strips. However, I have been going in and out of ketosis. Is this normal the first week or should I be able to stay at that level once I get there.
I am following the diet to a "T" so I dont know what the issue is.
212 pounds at 15.58% BF, Lean Mass 179 pounds (grams of protien)
calorie intake 3180 with a drop of 800 calories for weight loss so that leaves 1664 calories left to consume in fat with only 30 gram or less of carbs.
If my calculations are incorrect or someone know how to fix this please let me know please.[/QUOTE]
Cals are too high, I make your keto cals at about 2400, based on lean mass of 179lb.
What are you eating?
[QUOTE=The Debonaire;613231933]Thats what I was thinking, and I planned on just sticking with my current workout, I'm confident in its effectiveness. And I think i'll just carb up Saturday only, that sounds like a good idea.
Another quick question. Would It be ok if my proteins and fats were 50/50? I plan on taking in about 3200 cals while on keto. Its just a HUGE part of my diet is steak, actually almost all of my diet is steak eggs and milk, obviously I'll cut out the milk, but I planned on eating a lot of steak and eggs
currently I eat 12 whole eggs for breakfast and 2-3 pounds of eye of round steak during the day depending on how I feel. I also drink a lot of milk, close to 1 gal a day. So if I cut out the milk and tapered the eggs and steak to fit into my calorie allowance would that work (i'll get some extra fats in with cheese, oils, nuts, butter etc.)?
I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask, sorry I wrote so much.
Thanks
Edit: I currently take in roughly 300-400 grams of protein a day, would it be alright if I did 1.5 grams per pound of lean bodyweight while on keto? I'm very worried about losing any muscle at all and my body is used to a lot of protein. Or should I just stick to the 1 gram per pound of lean bodyweight?[/QUOTE]
50/50 can be a keto diet, but it's better if you go for the traditional 65/30/5.
Eggs and rib steak are perfect keto foods. Cook with some olive oil or butter or coconut oil and you'll hit your macros. Throw in some greens (salad with olive oil) to complete your meals.
That's a huge amount of protein and not necessary.
You can cut on 3200 cals a day? Seriously?
[QUOTE=Eileen;613341593]50/50 can be a keto diet, but it's better if you go for the traditional 65/30/5.
Eggs and rib steak are perfect keto foods. Cook with some olive oil or butter or coconut oil and you'll hit your macros. Throw in some greens (salad with olive oil) to complete your meals.
That's a huge amount of protein and not necessary.
You can cut on 3200 cals a day? Seriously?[/QUOTE]
alright thanks, and yes the amount of protein I take in is absolutely not necessary, but I just love steak so much! :)
and yeah, I've learned from experimenting with my diet that my maintenance is around 3700 cals, So i'll start with 3200 and adjust accordingly till I'm happy with the results. thats about a 500 calorie deficit, which is what I should shoot for correct? I can always drop it to 3100 if need be.
Thanks again
[QUOTE=The Debonaire;613462023]
and yeah, I've learned from experimenting with my diet that my maintenance is around 3700 cals,
Thanks again[/QUOTE]
I'm so jealous.
Hi, first post but after reading so much about this diet I'm definately gonna use this model for my cut beginning in two weeks times, but I do have a question.
I understand the part about working out your maintenance calories, subtracting 500 (which in my case is 2440kcal). Then from there you can work out your macros for the week, but what about the carb refeed day, on that day alone I'll be consuming 4000kcals+, surely thats gonna put me way above my maintenance for the week?!
Is this intentional and won't jeopardise the effectiveness off the diet or am I misuderstanding something?
Thanks a lot.
[QUOTE=Eileen;613340003]Cals are too high, I make your keto cals at about 2400, based on lean mass of 179lb.
What are you eating?[/QUOTE]
Well I am actually below 2400 calories. I'm starting at 3180 and taking 800 calories off for weight loss, which puts me at 2380 calories for the day. Of that 2380 I have 716 calories or 179grams of Protein, less than 30 grams of carbs and then remaining calories in dietary fats.
So far from early evening to now I have been able to stay in a state of Ketosis.
5 oz Chicken Breast (no skin)
10 oz Tuna in water with 4 TBSP light mayo and 2 TBSP Flaxseed oil (makes two meals throughout day)
2 scoops Whey Protein with 1 TBSP Flaxseed Oil
6 egg whites
4 TBSP organic peanut butter
3 oz pork sausage
1/4 cup walnuts (unsalted)
1 slice provolone cheese
this puts me at 2320 calories with 195 grams of protein (which I know is higher than my 179) 26.1 grams of carbs and 159 grams or 1415 calories of fat.
[QUOTE=babamunky;613731463]Hi, first post but after reading so much about this diet I'm definately gonna use this model for my cut beginning in two weeks times, but I do have a question.
I understand the part about working out your maintenance calories, subtracting 500 (which in my case is 2440kcal). Then from there you can work out your macros for the week, but what about the carb refeed day, on that day alone I'll be consuming 4000kcals+, surely thats gonna put me way above my maintenance for the week?!
Is this intentional and won't jeopardise the effectiveness off the diet or am I misuderstanding something?
Thanks a lot.[/QUOTE]
You probably don't actually need 4000+ cals on your carb-up. Keep the refeed cals proportional to your lean mass. If you are really ripped, then go for the full-on carb-up. If you've got a lot of fat to lose, keep the carb-up cals closer to maintenance.
Has anyone tried to speed up fat loss by cutting all fat once adapted to keto? I mean keeping your protein at 1 gram/lb and eating only EFAs for Fat (around 20-25 grams).... Just wondering if it'll work obviously doing so for a short period of time (1 week) then carb up, normal keto week, carb up, another no fat week and so on.....
Your body is supposedly adapted to use fat for fuel so once you stop eating dietary fat it should all come from your stores?
[QUOTE=albert88en;614439653]Has anyone tried to speed up fat loss by cutting all fat once adapted to keto? I mean keeping your protein at 1 gram/lb and eating only EFAs for Fat (around 20-25 grams).... Just wondering if it'll work obviously doing so for a short period of time (1 week) then carb up, normal keto week, carb up, another no fat week and so on.....
Your body is supposedly adapted to use fat for fuel so once you stop eating dietary fat it should all come from your stores?[/QUOTE]
It's called PSMF, and it does work, but though your calories are less than half what they are on keto, your fat loss is not twice as fast. And you get hungry and miserable. Useful if you have a time limit, but otherwise, I'd stick with keto.
hey i was told to eat 18x my bodyweight during the first two weeks, then lower my calories afterwards, is that the right?
And can i drink sugar free drinks(aspartame) on my carb up days?
Totally unnecessary. For the first few days, while you are dropping carbs and not yet in ketosis, I wouldn't bother counting calories, just make sure your macros are right. After that, you'll probably find you are not hungry and may struggle to eat 10 or 11 cals per pound.
Personally, I'd avoid aspartame altogether. There are better sweeteners out there. On carb-up, you can have sugar, but don't go mad, it can cause nasty bloating.
Okay here is a quick update, in 5 days i dropped 5 pounds and for lunch we went out with coworkers and i had pasta.
Kind of regret it now, but i guess I’ll start again.
I am starting this keto diet/workout on monday and would like to be pointed the right way regarding diet.
I am 6 feet. 196 lbs. bf% 13.5.
What kind of foods should I be eating. Reading through the thread, I'm a bit confused on what is ok to eat, during workout days, m-f, carb up day/s.
Thanks in advance.