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Caffeine is not a problem on keto. Considering the number of keto bb-ers who would die without their coffee, going caffeine free is not an option. Take it or not as you want, it makes no difference as long as you have your calories and macros right.
The PWO shake with 10-15g of dextrose is just to repair the damage to the muscle you've thrashed that workout, it's not a carb-up.
And if you are active and lift hard, then two days to ketosis is very possible.
"What has been recommended by other authors of the CKD is 10-12 grams of carbs per kilogram of lean mass. Again, time to do math. Our example had 160 pounds of lean mass, so divide that by the conversion factor of 2.2, and we get roughly 73 kg. "
If I am doing the math right, I need 764g of carbs? So estimating my lean mass is 140(probably low): = 140/2.2 = 64kg*12carbs perKG=764g. Then 764*4calories per gram = 3056 calories? That's just carbs! I'm no math wiz, do I have this right? Seems high.
Can someone tell me if I have this correct?
seems about right. i use the 8-10g carbs per kg of lbm method of calculation. using 10-12g carbs per kg of lbm will obviously increase your total cal and carb consumption, but you'll probably still be fine.
[b]source: [url]http://www.simplyshredded.com/research-review-an-in-depth-look-into-carbing-up-on-the-cyclical-ketogenic-diet-with-lyle-mcdonald.html[/url][/b]
[quote][b]Summary of Guidelines for the Carb-Load[/b]
8-10 grams of carbohydrates per kilogram of lean body mass should be consumed during the initial 24 hours of the carb-load. This will make up 70% of the total calories consumed. During the second 24 hours, approximately 5 grams/kg should be consumed which will be approximately 60% of the total calories consumed.
Protein intake should be approximately 1 gram per pound during all phases of the carb-load. In the first 24 hours, this will represent about 15% of total calories, in the second 24 hours, this will represent about 25% of total calories.
Fat intake should be kept at 15% of total calories during the first 24 hours, or a maximum of 88 grams of fat. Fat intake should be roughly cut in half during the second 24 hours of the carb-load.
Sample calculations for a carb-load for different body weights So simplify the calculations for the carb-load, the following charts give approximate amounts of protein, fat, carbohydrate, and total calories for the carb-load phase, based on different amounts of lean body mass. During the first 24 hours of carb-loading, carbohydrate intake should be 10 grams per kilogram of lean body mass or 4.5 grams of carbs per pound of lean body mass. This will represent 70% of the total calories consumed. The remaining calories will be divided evenly between fat (15% of total calories) and protein (15% of total calories).
Figure 1 gives estimated amounts of carbohydrate, protein and fat for various amounts of lean body mass.
[img]http://cdn.simplyshredded.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1.png[/img]
* The total calories consumed during the first 24 hours of the carb-load will be approximately twice what was being consumed during the lowcarb week. During the second 24 hours of carb-loading, carbohydrates will make up 60% of the total calories, protein 25% and fat 15%.
[img]http://cdn.simplyshredded.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/2.png[/img]
Once again, the above amounts should be considered guidelines only. Experimentation coupled with good record keeping will help an individual determine the optimal amounts of nutrients to consume during their carb-up[/quote]
i followed this guide (which you were linked to in one of your previous threads), while going over the caloric limit for the second 12-24hr period of the carb-up, and noticed no noticeable regain in fat.
Well that settles it then. Thank you.
I stopped reading here
"However, there is a huge difference between those who follow an Atkins plan and those who follow a cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD). Atkins is a low carb plan for those who are quite sedentary, walk maybe 3 times a week at the most, and just follow normal everyday activities. So forget Atkins here. The CKD is for those who’s main concern is true fat loss and muscle preservation—muscle for sports and high intensity activities. "
You can preserve muscle on Atkins, you just need to increase your protein intake, thus the only difference between the two is protein consumption. Oh wait, CKD is for true fat loss and Atkins isn't.
Im on the CKD..Im eating tons of bacon in the morning and at night... is that a good source of fat and protien? What would you recommend ? or anybody
It's a processed meat, so it's not ideal (through great for pissing off people on low fat diets). Steak is a better choice. Throw in a few oily fish and you're laughing.
WOW, i thought i was going crazy when i thought i was actually dropping weight when eating fats..
cant say ive stuck to a proper plan but heres my experience:
Parents went away for 2 weeks, pretty much had mates there everyday/night and all we would eat was CRAP.. kfc.. maccas.. chicken from the chicken shop... etc etc..
funny enough i actually felt alot slimmer after the 2 weeks my mates just told me i was going crazy..
after reading this i have to say im going to give it a proper shot..
the only downside to this is being a teenager, for me anwyay - my face will break out with pimples and feel like ****..
great information, im scared to try it, but what the hell even with that bit of experience i reckon this **** is the real deal.
First post - rep? jks.
keto's been known to clean up acne once you're fully fat adapted.
it's got something to do with hormone regulation.
Greetings,
I read earlier in the thread to not drink milk on this keto diet. That seems quite strange. I drink a litre of milk on training days (2 x 500ml protein shakes) and 500ml on non-training days. I think it would be hard to cut this out as protein powder with water is horrible.
[QUOTE=YellowTang;743416273]Greetings,
I read earlier in the thread to not drink milk on this keto diet. That seems quite strange. I drink a litre of milk on training days (2 x 500ml protein shakes) and 500ml on non-training days. I think it would be hard to cut this out as protein powder with water is horrible.[/QUOTE]
For the last 18 months i've always had water with my protein powder.
Simple solution - get better tasting protein powder.
It's never been an issue for me at all.
[QUOTE=YellowTang;743416273]Greetings,
I read earlier in the thread to not drink milk on this keto diet. That seems quite strange. I drink a litre of milk on training days (2 x 500ml protein shakes) and 500ml on non-training days. I think it would be hard to cut this out as protein powder with water is horrible.[/QUOTE]
unsweetened almond milk is the acceptable substitute. 35calories, 2.5g fat/0g carbs/1g protein per 8oz serving.
Ok, so i am a pretty disclipined guy and have done 8 weeks on a strict no carb diet with a refeed day once a week usually a saturday. and No cheat days i managed to eat less than 10-20 grams of carbs a day max, whilst eating about 80 grams of protein and a small amouint of fat
i recently jumped on a calorie counting website and found tht i am eating approx 762 calories a day 34% of the calories are from fat, 62% from protein, 4% from carbs . i thought this was awesome as after a gym session i should have ALMOST NO CALORIC INTAKE.
But then i read that was bad and im starving myself literally. using a CKD calculator i found on this website i got this information
BMR:1908
BMR+Activity:3243
Target BMR with diet:2594
Total nutrients per day
Calories Grams
Fat 1595 177 Your Bodyweight (a)
Protein 736 184 183
Carbs 123 31
Total 2454
IDEAL TARGET NUTRIENTS PER MEAL (KETO PHASE)
Calories Grams
Fat 399 44
Protein 184 46
Carbs 31 8
Total 614
So what i want to know is first of all am i doing this wrong?
if i want to increase my protein and fat without carbs what should i be eating?
im currently 83 kg and at last skinfold test i had %12.01 bodyfat this is down from nearly 88kg and somehwre around the %17 bf mark.
any informed advise would be appreciated
[QUOTE=ma9net;743744863]Ok, so i am a pretty disclipined guy and have done 8 weeks on a strict no carb diet with a refeed day once a week usually a saturday. and No cheat days i managed to eat less than 10-20 grams of carbs a day max, whilst eating about 80 grams of protein and a small amouint of fat
i recently jumped on a calorie counting website and found tht i am eating approx 762 calories a day 34% of the calories are from fat, 62% from protein, 4% from carbs . i thought this was awesome as after a gym session i should have ALMOST NO CALORIC INTAKE.
But then i read that was bad and im starving myself literally. using a CKD calculator i found on this website i got this information
BMR:1908
BMR+Activity:3243
Target BMR with diet:2594
Total nutrients per day
Calories Grams
Fat 1595 177 Your Bodyweight (a)
Protein 736 184 183
Carbs 123 31
Total 2454
IDEAL TARGET NUTRIENTS PER MEAL (KETO PHASE)
Calories Grams
Fat 399 44
Protein 184 46
Carbs 31 8
Total 614
So what i want to know is first of all am i doing this wrong?
if i want to increase my protein and fat without carbs what should i be eating?
im currently 83 kg and at last skinfold test i had %12.01 bodyfat this is down from nearly 88kg and somehwre around the %17 bf mark.
any informed advise would be appreciated[/QUOTE]
use the information and macros from this ckd calculator on this site. eating at 750calories at your height and weight is incredibly unhealthy.
Thanks Dmurph, i have come to realise today that im eating way less than i should be and my weight loss so far is due to to starvation.
im not sure i understand what a macro is however, and i find the information while insightful does not lend itself to being easily understood by someone who is very new to this sort of lifestyle.
i am like a sponge at this point and want to understand so that i can not only do this well but get to a point where i can speak confidently about how i achieved my goals. if its not too much to ask please could you be a little more specific?
cant believe i've never seen this thread. in for further review later on...was planning on starting the TNT Diet (essentially CKD) tomorrow.
[QUOTE=ma9net;743909643]Thanks Dmurph, i have come to realise today that im eating way less than i should be and my weight loss so far is due to to starvation.
im not sure i understand what a macro is however, and i find the information while insightful does not lend itself to being easily understood by someone who is very new to this sort of lifestyle.
i am like a sponge at this point and want to understand so that i can not only do this well but get to a point where i can speak confidently about how i achieved my goals. if its not too much to ask please could you be a little more specific?[/QUOTE]
When someone refers to a "macro", they are referring to a macronutrient. The 4 macronutrients are fat, carbs, protein, and alcohol. It is from the amount of macros in food that the food's caloric value is derived from. 1g of fat is 9calories, 1g of carbs is 4calories, 1g of protein is 4calories, and 1g of alcohol is 7calories.
A typical ketogenic diet macro ratio is 65% fat / 30% protein / 5% carbs. This means that of all the calories you should be consuming, 65% should come from eating fat, 30% from protein, and 5% (or less) from carbs.
For example, if you recommended caloric intake was 2000cal, using the ratio above, 1300cal would come from fat, 600cal from protein, and less than 100cal from carbs. Doing the math we find that to "fit your macros", you would need to eat 145g fat (1300cal / 9cal = 144.45), 150g protein (600cal / 4cal = 150), and less than 25g carbs (100cal / 4cal = 25).
As far as keto-friendly foods that you can eat which will provide you with fats and protein but few to no carbs, there is a large list in another stickied thread titled "a guide to ketosis". Some of my favorite keto-friendly foods are steaks, burgers, sausages, eggs, and cheese. You can also get your fats and protein from fatty species of fish, nuts, and oils.
Any other questions?
How many grams of carbs are you allowed per day on the low carb days? I know its mainly from vegetables but how many grams of carbs is the right amount??
[QUOTE=daniel2166;349258]Would be it possible to do something like this:
Meal 1:
2 eggs, 8oz skim, 1 tblsp olive oil
Meal 2:
4oz chicken breast, pepperoni stick, 1tblsp olive oil, salad
Meal 3:
2 pepperoni sticks, 1 tin tuna, 1tblsp olive oil
Meal 4:
1 6oz steak, 1 tblsp olive oil, salad
Meal 5: Cheddar cheese, 8oz skim, 1tblsp olive oil
I figure that's about 200p, 120f, 30c or so... Is that a good example of a keto diet?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kels1989;745051913]How many grams of carbs are you allowed per day on the low carb days? I know its mainly from vegetables but how many grams of carbs is the right amount??[/QUOTE]
if you stay under 30g carbs in a day, you should be fine. like you said, be sure to get the carbs from green, leafy, veggies. avoid fructose, because rather than it refilling muscle glycogen stores, it refills liver glycogen stores, which is counter-productive to the ketogenic diet.
can i do this workout routine but with circuit training so add a set of HITT through every 1/3 of that days workout?
[QUOTE=Blindfaith;349004]HERE IS THE REST OF THE ARTICLE
CKD Workout
Now, the question is, how do we workout to optimize muscle preservation and keep our metabolism up while dieting? Before we get into that, one must realize that during any dieting scheme there is one thing that must be done, and one thing that must not be done.
First, you must keep training volume lower than your usual routine. Overtraining is probably the number one killer in motivation, it deprives sleep, and hinders fat loss.
Second, you must not fall into the myth of lighter weights with higher reps. You got your muscle by benching 240, and you have to bench 240 to keep that same muscle! Or at least around that area! Okay, now that we have that established, here’s what we do:
On Monday and Tuesday we will work our weaker body parts, rest or cardio on Wednesday and Thursday mornings, Thursday do our strongest body parts, and Friday a combination of the Monday/Tuesday workouts in a loop format. The workout I have found to work optimally for myself and my clients is this:
(Note: You may feel free to tweak, shake, and turn this example upside down.
Everybody is different, so find what works for you.)
MONDAY: Chest, Back, Abs
High intensity workouts with 60 sec rest between sets, 90 sec rest between
each exercise
HOPE THIS HELPS OUT ALL YOU BRO'S WITH ENDLESS AMOUNTS OF QUESTOINS! PEACE![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DMurph51;744522163]When someone refers to a "macro", they are referring to a macronutrient. The 4 macronutrients are fat, carbs, protein, and alcohol. It is from the amount of macros in food that the food's caloric value is derived from. 1g of fat is 9calories, 1g of carbs is 4calories, 1g of protein is 4calories, and 1g of alcohol is 7calories.[/QUOTE]
Thanks heaps for that info man, that helps alot.
seems like such a foreign concept to consume so much fat in order to see weight loss, but clearly that what everyone is doing and it appears to be working.
[QUOTE=ma9net;745692153]Thanks heaps for that info man, that helps alot.
seems like such a foreign concept to consume so much fat in order to see weight loss, but clearly that what everyone is doing and it appears to be working.[/QUOTE]
well technically, it's the caloric deficit you run, not the keto diet itself, which causes fat loss. the keto diet merely changes the way your body utilizes fats.
[QUOTE=Eileen;516737783] If you know your bodyfat, eat around 13-14 cals per pound of lean, with 1g of protein per pound of lean, 20g of carb and the rest fat. If you don't know, then start with around 11 cals per pound of total weight, and eat 30% of cals as protein, 5% carbs, and 65% fat.[/QUOTE]
Eileen,
First I want to thank you for all your help in this thread.(currently reading page 68)
I have started one and a half week ago and following the "lifestyle rules" strict with great results.
There is a great Excel tool available to make live easier and this one gives me 2100 kcal maintenance as a desk jockey.
Check out (www)true-natural-bodybuilding.com/graf/diet-plan-true-natural-bodybuilding.xls
I am a cyclist coming from 81kg now to 78.5kg in 10 days.
I have eaten around 17/1800kcal so 10 days * 350kcal =3500kcal but I'm training 5 times per week in total 10 hrs.
The 10 hrs training must be good for about 6/7000kcal so total deficit must be about 1.5 kg fat
I know some loss can be explained by depleting glucose levels and normal reserve = 300/400 gr *2.7g = 1 kg
Question: Are my calculations correct and id the speed of weight loss acceptable ? It's going a bit too fast maybe and I need to take more kcal ?
Question: I wonder if the Timed Ketogenic Diet is better for me because training in D2 (150-168bpm) is too hard for me.
Is the PWO whey shake with 10g dextrose also good for a cyclist ?
Keep up the good work Eileen !
Thanks
You're doing more exercise than they expected when they were writing the stickies, so you may have to adjust. If you are comfortable doing that much cycling on keto, then you don't need to worry too much. If you are getting exhausted, then you might want to cluster carbs around long rides. There is one other keto cyclist here who can eat 150g of carbs a day and still stay in ketosis before of all the cycling he does.
Judge by your body. If you are not hungry, or only hungry coming up to meal times, then your calorie level is probably fine. The bigger your muscle mass, the bigger weight change you'll notice as you go in or out of ketosis. Some of the big guys can gain and lose 15lb on each carb-up.
[QUOTE=Eileen;748287713]You're doing more exercise than they expected when they were writing the stickies, so you may have to adjust. If you are comfortable doing that much cycling on keto, then you don't need to worry too much. If you are getting exhausted, then you might want to cluster carbs around long rides. There is one other keto cyclist here who can eat 150g of carbs a day and still stay in ketosis before of all the cycling he does.
Judge by your body. If you are not hungry, or only hungry coming up to meal times, then your calorie level is probably fine. The bigger your muscle mass, the bigger weight change you'll notice as you go in or out of ketosis. Some of the big guys can gain and lose 15lb on each carb-up.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, I AM hungry and just ate some Serrano Ham and mixed nuts to make it a 2000 kcal day
After 10 days it still feels a bit awkward if I need to eat more.
The Thursday ride made me almost puke so weak I felt after 3 hrs in the saddle.
Couldn't ride today and probably not tomorrow as well.
Eat enough that you can ride! And don't forget your veggies. It's hard to get a calorie figure on cycling, because it depends on so many things, but if you don't have enough energy to finish a ride, then throw in more food, and it's okay to eat some carbs before, during or after a cycle.
[QUOTE=Eileen;748354293]Eat enough that you can ride! And don't forget your veggies. It's hard to get a calorie figure on cycling, because it depends on so many things, but if you don't have enough energy to finish a ride, then throw in more food, and it's okay to eat some carbs before, during or after a cycle.[/QUOTE]
I usually ride at 7:00 because of the heat here in Spain, what and how much carbs would you recommend pre and post to start with ? During the ride it need to be high GI right....can you give me some examples please. Is 500ml Aquarius (6gr carbs/100g ) during the ride an option ?
I used to have 250gr quark (3.5gr carb/100g) with 30gr muesli before and 50gr oatmeal in 200gr skimmed milk afterwords together with a whey shake. Is that still ok you guess or will it kick me out of keto too long (or you don't like the diary) ?
BTW I will have burned about 1000-1500kcal in that ride.
I appreciate your answer.
I'd be inclined to eat the low gi quark and oatmeal meal before the cycle, and have a whey shake after it. Then keto for the rest of the day. Ideally what you want is to be in ketosis, so that you are burning fat during the ride, but to have enough extra carbs available to bridge the gap between what fat can supply and what you need.
Too many high gi carbs could cause an insulin crash, which is not fun.
You'll probably find that as you spend more time in ketosis, you'll get more efficient at functioning on a keto diet and don't need so many carbs.
[QUOTE=Eileen;749100293]I'd be inclined to eat the low gi quark and oatmeal meal before the cycle, and have a whey shake after it. Then keto for the rest of the day. Ideally what you want is to be in ketosis, so that you are burning fat during the ride, but to have enough extra carbs available to bridge the gap between what fat can supply and what you need.
Too many high gi carbs could cause an insulin crash, which is not fun.
You'll probably find that as you spend more time in ketosis, you'll get more efficient at functioning on a keto diet and don't need so many carbs.[/QUOTE]
Yes, ketose is new to me and have to listen to my body.
Today's 3 hour ride in D1 went without any problem (yeah normal fatigue) so it's the intensity I have to watch and adjust carbs. accordingly to my training program.
2 last questions :
You say quark with oatmeal but I guess the combination quark/muesli is also good as it has the same GI 55/54
Should I take the 10gr Dextrose along with the whey ?