Opinions on Lyle McDonald Generic Bulking

Just google Lyle McDonald Generic Bulking routine if you dont know what Im talking about.

I cannot post links because my post count is too low, sorry :(

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Thinking about giving Lyle's a go...what do you all think of it?

My stats:
6'3
172lbs
ectomorph I guess...not exactly easy for me to put on weight, but I have a natural athletic build (not flat-chested etc).

my goal: Put on ~10-15 LBS
My time frame: However Long it takes
Lifting exerience: Been lifting on and off for 3-4 years, but no "serious" [I]training[/I]. Just consistent lifting to stay in good shape.

Supplements:
Jack3d Pre-workouts
2scoop protein shake 30-min post work out, and on off days.
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[B]My[/B] Current routine: (Warm-up sets before the standard 3x8's)
[B]A:[/B] flat DB press 3x8
incline DB press 3x8
Flat DB Flies 3x8
Weighted Dips 3x8
Behind the head DB tri-pushes 3x8
rope tri-pull down 3x8
[B]B:[/B] Bent over DB rows 3x8
Wide grip overhand chin up 3x10
Seated DB shoulder press 3x8
Machine over-head row 3x8
lat pull-down 3x8
curling bar bi curls 3x8
curling bar face pulls 3x8

[B]A B Rest A B Rest Rest[/B]


I realize i dont have legs in my routine, and i know it is [B]bad[/B]. I do take working out seriously, but mostly doing it for "mirror muscles" and to look good [I](I know I know...Ill get flamed im sure, but just trying to be honest)[/I].

I am willing, however, to start putting legs in my routine!

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Additional Questions:

Lyle mentions he does not like pyramidding up. He suggests to do warm-up sets, and then [B]start with a close to RM heavy set.[/B] He says to either stay at that weight, or pyramid down in order to keep the reps up.

+[I] What are opinions on this?[/I]

Although I am sure many of you will bash on my current routine, as it is far too isolation based (and of course has no legs)...and further just has too many exercises....[B]I am very happy with my results doing it so far.[/B]

Because of this, It worries me to try anything else because I dont want to lose any of the solid definition and muscle gains I have enjoyed over the past 4-5 months.

The real reason i am even questioning my current routine, and posting here is because I was adding weight consistently for a while and lifting heavier each week or so. [I]Now[/I] I am stuck on several exercises, and feel as though if I am not continually adding weight, I am not making any progress.

Also...[B]WARMUP[/B]:

Lyle's split/routine is pretty bare-boned. By that I mean he leaves a lot of things up to the person to determine for themselves. Can i get some advice on warming up?

My idea of warming up is just doing 2-3 sets of around 55-60% the weight I will be lifting. Nice and light, just to get the blood pumping and my joints etc nice and warmed up/ready to go.

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Thank you so much for your advice/responses. Seems like a lot of you really know your stuff, and I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Well, your current routine sucks as you know. It has no legs. You will look stupid.

Lyle's generic bulking routine is effective at getting you stronger and more muscular.

To warmup:

1-2x5 empty bar
1x5 40%
1x5 60%
1x3 80%
work sets

[QUOTE=gordonrumble;554690753]Well, your current routine sucks as you know. It has no legs. You will look stupid.

Lyle's generic bulking routine is effective at getting you stronger and more muscular.

To warmup:

1-2x5 empty bar
1x5 40%
1x5 60%
1x3 80%
work sets[/QUOTE]

A few more questions:

Do you do this sort of warmup before each exercise, or what?

I feel like piling one day for all of the upper body is a bit weird...which is why my routine made more sense to me, because I had chest/tri on one day, and back/bi/should on the other.

Admittedly I wanted to split it up a bit better and not even have to work all three bi/back/should in one day..but I couldnt find a way to do that well.

[B]I just feel like only doing 1-2 sets of tri and bi just wont cut it....[/B]

This is really where a lot of my own confusions come from when people tell me my routine sucks. I realize it doesnt incorporate legs..fine, but otherwise...I feel like im getting a lot more work done for each muscle group then I will in, say, Lyle's routine.

Can someone explain that to me?

Here is Lyle's:

[quote]
Mon: Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8/3′ (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3′ rest)
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3′
Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2′
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3′
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2′

Tue: Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3′
Row: 3-4X6-8/3′
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2′
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2′
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5′

For the Thu/Fri workouts either repeat the first two or make some slight exercise substitutions. Can do deadlift/leg press combo on Thu, switch incline/pulldown to first exercises on upper body day. A lot depends on volume tolerance, if the above is too much, go to 2-3X6-8 and 1-2X10-12
[/quote]

I'm doing it on the ABABA.

Lovin the simplicity of this routine. In a few weeks I'm going to switch up to the 4 day split though. I thought recovery would be an issue but I'm recovering fine.

It's very basic actually, no bells or whistles. Basic simple compound lifts w/ a few ancillary sets.

Do a warmup before each exercise. You can get away without the empty bar sets on later exercises where the muscle groups are already worked, but I always keep them in since they take almost no time to do. Just be intelligent about the warmups.

You are a beginner. Doing a bodypart split comes at the expense of frequency, which will give you better results.

Upper body movements in that routine which work the triceps:
Flat Bench
Shoulder Press/Incline
Chinups (long head slightly, as a dynamic stabilizer)
Triceps movement

Upper body movements which work the biceps:
Row
Chinup
Biceps movement

Still think you aren't getting any arm work?

[QUOTE=nvranka;554727533]A few more questions:

Do you do this sort of warmup before each exercise, or what?

I feel like piling one day for all of the upper body is a bit weird...which is why my routine made more sense to me, because I had chest/tri on one day, and back/bi/should on the other.

Admittedly I wanted to split it up a bit better and not even have to work all three bi/back/should in one day..but I couldnt find a way to do that well.

[B]I just feel like only doing 1-2 sets of tri and bi just wont cut it....[/B]

This is really where a lot of my own confusions come from when people tell me my routine sucks. I realize it doesnt incorporate legs..fine, but otherwise...I feel like im getting a lot more work done for each muscle group then I will in, say, Lyle's routine.

Can someone explain that to me?

Here is Lyle's:[/QUOTE]

I dunno dude I'm pretty new to bodybuilding but most of the stuff I am reading from respectable sources such as Lyle Mcdonald, or the routines on this site, or wannabebig.com routines is you don't need to whack high volume for each muscle group. Stuff like bicepts and tricepts are hit hard with all your pushing and pulling so by the time it's time to directly hit those muscles they should be thrashed. The general idea is to hit your basic compounds "heavy". Even though I'm new to BB I have been going to the gym for years and this is my observations:

1) The guys who I see doing a few sets of squats, deads, and bench are the guys who I want to look like (big and ripped).
2) The guys who spend hours doing curls typically don't seem to change much from year to year. Maybe nice arms, usually a little on the fat side and their legs/back look terrible.

I do the low rep warm up like Lyle recommends.

i love it.

I dare say it's better than starting strength. I do the three day split ABABA etc.. works for me.

[QUOTE=gordonrumble;554738153]Do a warmup before each exercise. You can get away without the empty bar sets on later exercises where the muscle groups are already worked, but I always keep them in since they take almost no time to do. Just be intelligent about the warmups.

You are a beginner. Doing a bodypart split comes at the expense of frequency, which will give you better results.

Upper body movements in that routine which work the triceps:
Flat Bench
Shoulder Press/Incline
Chinups (long head slightly, as a dynamic stabilizer)
Triceps movement

Upper body movements which work the biceps:
Row
Chinup
Biceps movement

Still think you aren't getting any arm work?[/QUOTE]

Not really seeing how my original split is lowering frequency? I mean I was not doing a body-part per day split...

I dont know...i guess im paranoid to start something new in fear of losing what I have worked on.

I'll get started on it next week.

Should I start at my current work set loads, or implement a slight decrease in order to start from a fresh "muscle reset" or w/e.

Make sure you understand the 2 week sub max run ups.

That's where you should start.

[QUOTE=nvranka;554748783]Not really seeing how my original split is lowering frequency? I mean I was not doing a body-part per day split...

I dont know...i guess im paranoid to start something new in fear of losing what I have worked on.

I'll get started on it next week.

Should I start at my current work set loads, or implement a slight decrease in order to start from a fresh "muscle reset" or w/e.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but at your height/weight, you don't have much to lose. IMO, the program/split is all pretty irrelevant. They are just a means of organizing volume and frequency. What you should always (and perhaps only) focus on is getting stronger over time, i.e. progressive overload.

[QUOTE=iwong28;554794793]No offense, but at your height/weight, you don't have much to lose. IMO, the program/split is all pretty irrelevant. They are just a means of organizing volume and frequency. [B]What you should always (and perhaps only) focus on is getting stronger over time, i.e. progressive overload.[/B][/QUOTE]

None taken.

This is why I have decided to start something new. I can't seem to get past benching ~170, not that ive really tried that hard, but adding weight past that point never seemed reasonable as it just felt too heavy, week to week.

I've seen a similar plateau in my shoulder press, and because the two are so closely related compound-wise...it seems I need to be doing something differently here.

Gonna have to put on weight to lift more, and I thought lyle's program would help me put on some mass and add some weight to my core lifts.

Not to mention the majority of my 172lbs is upper-body, so my legs could definitely use the work.

I consider myself a relatively experienced upper-body lifter as far as my form etc goes, but ive never spent any time on legs other than just playing sports, so I have always been a bit apprehensive on starting a leg routine.

i.e. worried I'll have bad squat/DL/SLDL/etc form and hurt myself, or to a much lesser extent..just not be doing it right and not get the full benefit.

[QUOTE=nvranka;554748783]Not really seeing how my original split is lowering frequency? I mean I was not doing a body-part per day split...

I dont know...i guess im paranoid to start something new in fear of losing what I have worked on.

I'll get started on it next week.

Should I start at my current work set loads, or implement a slight decrease in order to start from a fresh "muscle reset" or w/e.[/QUOTE]

I was speaking in terms of a bodypart split that included legs. You were talking about further splitting your routine up, which is not what you need right now.

Right now, anything will work, but you need to work those legs. The LMGB routine is fine for your goals.

Lyle's generic bulking routine is #1.

Read and learn all the FAQs:

[url]http://jcdfitness.com/wp-content/download/Lyle_McDonald_Generic_Bulking_Routine_FAQ.pdf[/url]


OP, stop worrying about arms until you achieve at least 2 of these goals:
- bench 1.5x your bodyweight
- dead lift 2.5x BW
- pull-up with extra 0.5x your weight around your belt
- squat 2x BW

But if you insist on doing arms more why not start with weighted chin-ups or dips? Lyle's routine allows for specialization training for lagging parts. Simply switch the order and do lagging parts first.

Lyle mentions also that arms can be dropped all together and you'll be fine :) Like Iron Addict said: "Add 100 lbs to all your lifts, then talk about lagging parts".

Finally keep in mind that Lyle's routine is an intermediate program for bulking or for cutting or maintaining (if you do it 3x per week, 4x per week while bulking)
Lyle says beginners should do full body, and advanced should possibly start messing with the routine to hit weaker parts more etc.

[QUOTE=gordonrumble;554816163]I was speaking in terms of a bodypart split that included legs. You were talking about further splitting your routine up, which is not what you need right now.

Right now, anything will work, but you need to work those legs. The LMGB routine is fine for your goals.[/QUOTE]

ahh OK I see what you were saying, makes sense to me.

[QUOTE=kusok;554826353]Lyle's generic bulking routine is #1.

Read and learn all the FAQs:




OP, stop worrying about arms until you achieve at least 2 of these goals:
- bench 1.5x your bodyweight
- dead lift 2.5x BW
- pull-up with extra 0.5x your weight around your belt
- squat 2x BW

But if you insist on doing arms more why not start with weighted chin-ups or dips? Lyle's routine allows for specialization training for lagging parts. Simply switch the order and do lagging parts first.

Lyle mentions also that arms can be dropped all together and you'll be fine :) Like Iron Addict said: "Add 100 lbs to all your lifts, then talk about lagging parts".

Finally keep in mind that Lyle's routine is an intermediate program for bulking or for cutting or maintaining (if you do it 3x per week, 4x per week while bulking)
Lyle says beginners should do full body, and advanced should possibly start messing with the routine to hit weaker parts more etc.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input! After hearing so much encouragement I'm now 100% going to start the LMGB, and am pretty excited about it.

Few more things:

As far as adding weight to chins/pull-ups...how does that work with the routine?

In other words...how am I suppose to do the submax deload weeks? do I use a weight reduction machine, or just do BW chins?

I read somewhere its a good idea to at least be able to do 3x15 before adding weight to chins...is this true? thought I saw it somewhere within the LM forum or in that FAQ, not sure tho.

[QUOTE=nvranka;554837633]ahh OK I see what you were saying, makes sense to me.



Thanks for the input! After hearing so much encouragement I'm now 100% going to start the LMGB, and am pretty excited about it.

Few more things:

As far as adding weight to chins/pull-ups...how does that work with the routine?

In other words...how am I suppose to do the submax deload weeks? do I use a weight reduction machine, or just do BW chins?

I read somewhere its a good idea to at least be able to do 3x15 before adding weight to chins...is this true? thought I saw it somewhere within the LM forum or in that FAQ, not sure tho.[/QUOTE]



I think you're overanalyzing. There is no need to de-load or to cycle anything if you recover FULLY between work-outs, and take an extra off day whenever you feel not fully recovered. A minimalist approach. Less to worry about. Or simply reduce sets, something that Lyle often suggests for various reasons.

There is no rule to how many chin-ups you gotta do before you add weight. Train all rep ranges, it's more fun, keeps it interesting. Lyle's routine offers flexibility.

[QUOTE=kusok;554854493]I think you're overanalyzing. There is no need to de-load or to cycle anything if you recover FULLY between work-outs, and take an extra off day whenever you feel not fully recovered. A minimalist approach. Less to worry about. Or simply reduce sets, something that Lyle often suggests for various reasons.

There is no rule to how many chin-ups you gotta do before you add weight. Train all rep ranges, it's more fun, keeps it interesting. Lyle's routine offers flexibility.[/QUOTE]

Sounds good.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

any advice on which row to do?

close grip underhand BB row or?

[QUOTE=kusok;554854493]I think you're overanalyzing. There is no need to de-load or to cycle anything if you recover FULLY between work-outs, and take an extra off day whenever you feel not fully recovered. A minimalist approach. Less to worry about. Or simply reduce sets, something that Lyle often suggests for various reasons.

There is no rule to how many chin-ups you gotta do before you add weight. Train all rep ranges, it's more fun, keeps it interesting. Lyle's routine offers flexibility.[/QUOTE]

Not so sure about that. Lyle puts an emphasis on the importance of deloads.

[QUOTE=Yamar1;555200523]Not so sure about that. Lyle puts an emphasis on the importance of deloads.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree. Without looking back at the bulking thread on his board I believe it's every
6-8 weeks depending on the trainee's status. A beginner can probably go longer without a deload than an intermediate. Lyle definitely recommends deloads though.

Advanced need to be doing specialization work most likely.

[QUOTE=nvranka;555122163]any advice on which row to do?

close grip underhand BB row or?[/QUOTE]

Which ever one you're comfortable doing. Personally I find the Yates underhand row to be very awkward and opt for the overhand grip.

[QUOTE=LightCrow;555249303]Which ever one you're comfortable doing. Personally I find the Yates underhand row to be very awkward and opt for the overhand grip.[/QUOTE]

I did overhand today and it was fine, gna try the underhand next time I do an upper and see how it feels.

BB rows are new to me in general so it all feels a bit awkward...im just used to doing DB rows and cable rows.

new lifts in general are fun though, i had a good time mixing it up with this new routine, and honestly cant wait to continue with it. Never worked out legs really, and am excited/a little apprehensive to get into squats/DLs etc

[QUOTE=kusok;554826353]Lyle's generic bulking routine is #1.

Read and learn all the FAQs:

[url]http://jcdfitness.com/wp-content/download/Lyle_McDonald_Generic_Bulking_Routine_FAQ.pdf[/url]


OP, stop worrying about arms until you achieve at least 2 of these goals:
- bench 1.5x your bodyweight
- dead lift 2.5x BW
- pull-up with extra 0.5x your weight around your belt
- squat 2x BW

But if you insist on doing arms more why not start with weighted chin-ups or dips? Lyle's routine allows for specialization training for lagging parts. Simply switch the order and do lagging parts first.

Lyle mentions also that arms can be dropped all together and you'll be fine :) Like Iron Addict said: "Add 100 lbs to all your lifts, then talk about lagging parts".

Finally keep in mind that Lyle's routine is an intermediate program for bulking or for cutting or maintaining (if you do it 3x per week, 4x per week while bulking)
Lyle says beginners should do full body, and advanced should possibly start messing with the routine to hit weaker parts more etc.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Good Stuff.