Deen Gill - Three Reasons Why Ronnie Coleman Is Not My Champion!

Many cops are juicing. Good. Using steroids to improve your strength is a victimless crime. And, it has been proven over & over again that if roids are used intelligently, risks are minimized. This board is full of knowledgeable explanations of this. People that mess themselves with anabolic drugs did not take all measures to minimize & counterract side effects...That is irresponsible.

Cops that are stronger & more aggressive is undeniably beneficial to crime fighting. Has anyone considered how well someone is able to enforce the damn law if they're on steroids?!!

Ronnie has to be the strongest police officer in the history of the world. Personally I'd feel a lot safer to know that criminals must deal with cops as bad ass as Coleman.

This is more of a rhetorical thought but illustrates what I believe is a valid point... Would you rather only your criminals be huge, powerful and aggressive?
In a world like this, authorities would have to shoot guns much more often to keep the peace. The cops, bouncers, bodyguards, and military personnel would be defeated in every physical confrontation.

Coleman risked not only his career as an elite professional athlete, but his own safety to defend others. Law enforcement is one of the most dangerous occupations on this planet. These people are willing to die every day to protect others. Deen you should be thanking him. There are very few men in the world that would still do police work when they have a fruitful career as a pro athlete. I can't even think of any other pro athlete that is a cop. Maybe there have been a few, but does the general public know their names? No, that's because they didn't achieve fame by virtue of excelling to the heights of their sport. This doesn't trivialize what they may have accomplished as a cop or an athlete, but to me it makes Coleman's willingness to risk his life more admirable...

Ronnie is THE REIGNING CHAMPION of his sport, he certainly did not work as a cop for the money. I speculate that he made less in a year from police work than what he makes in a week as the top bodybuilder in the world. (When you average out all of his endorsement deals, merchandising & licensing royalties, and contest winnings). Many other pro-bodybuilders don't even work at another career. That's understandable, the required dedication of this sport is a lifestyle. Ronnie Coleman should be seriously respected just like Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan after he set aside his professional football career to serve in the U.S. Army.

What is the only possible reason Ronnie worked as a cop? Because your safety was his top priority.

Not your "champion"... how dare you.

Just to clarify:

Some say the U.S. should not have attacked Afghanistan. Whether the U.S. was right in doing so or not, it cannot be denied that any man like Pat Tillman willing to die because he believes he is defending others is a special human being. A real champion.

In this way, Ronnie Coleman is special. Despite what anyone says from any perspective about steroids being right or wrong, the man was willing to die for others.

It seems unconscionable to say Ronnie is not a champion.

And you said he is not your champion because he was a cop?!! WTF.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by str8flexed [/i]
[B]wow, I can't believe someone would make up these blatent lies. If you kind find where I said any such thing and give me the link I'll be more than happy to make a formal apology and eat my words. But I NEVER said that

and I don't know **** about esters or any of that bull**** so I know damned well I didn't say that [/B][/QUOTE]


ah fukk, i doubt id be able to find them. i found them in links from other threads. i believe one was a thread where u came and in and were talking about pros. u were saying how u, big red, and some other guy were watching the Battle For the Olympia tapes, and how u guys basically just all laughed at how half assed the pros trained. u sed most of the pro's dont train hard b/c they use machines, and that Ronnie was the only one who was hardcore. but sry, i cant remember the name of that thread or where i found it, but i do remember u saying something like "just b/c he sez hes natural, doesnt mean he is"

I did not like this article one bit. Deen Gill seems to base his belief system and choice of actions on conformity and subjectivity. Mr. Gill, Ronnie taking steroids today is no different
ethically than Arnold taking steroids 30 years ago (and he was notorious for taking megadoses of steroids). Dianabol is the exact same substance today that it was in 1974. What has changed is that a group of oftentimes incompetent and corrupt
lawmakers have declared steroids illegal.
Do you have the ability to think for yourself? If the actual act of taking steroids is so wrong, tell us why YOU think it's wrong. Please provide us with OBJECTIVE fact.
And what hypocrisy. Pharmacuetical drug use has become a way of life in our country. If you're depressed, get hooked on Prozac or Paxil. Can't get it up? Pop a Viagra. Is your kid hyper-active? Screw him up with some Ritalin. Our medical doctors have become pharmacuetical drug pushers. These drugs are not only legal and socially acceptable, but promoted by our government
because they make large pharmacuetical companies a huge profit
and these same companies give huge political campaign contributions. The patents on anabolic steroids expired decades
ago, so no profit potential exists.
Now, I'm not trying to condemn responsible pharmacuetical drug use. These drugs certainly have an important place in our modern world. What I am condemning is stupidity, hypocrisy and
and simple minded subjectivity. If steroid use is so much worse than other drug use, give us objective, factual reasons, not something as simplistic as that they're not legally fashionable
now (but steroid use was OK when they were legally fashionable). Talk to us intelligently. Are steroids more dangerous
with harsher side effects than powerful pharmacueticals? Not if used responsibly. Do steroids cause anti-social behavior and are they a threat to society? No.
If you declare that Ronnie taking steroids is bad, but Arnold and Frank Zane taking them was OK, you need to give us much
better reasons to justify your statement.

P.S. You stated that you've used prohormones. Prohormones and prosteroids are basically anabolic (or androgenic in some cases) steroids that have passed a legal loophole. You hypocryte.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by goth666 [/i]
[B]ah fukk, i doubt id be able to find them. i found them in links from other threads. i believe one was a thread where u came and in and were talking about pros. u were saying how u, big red, and some other guy were watching the Battle For the Olympia tapes, and how u guys basically just all laughed at how half assed the pros trained. u sed most of the pro's dont train hard b/c they use machines, and that Ronnie was the only one who was hardcore. but sry, i cant remember the name of that thread or where i found it, but i do remember u saying something like "just b/c he sez hes natural, doesnt mean he is" [/B][/QUOTE]

yea I remember that... I said I thought ronnie trained hard but I wasn't really blown away by anyone else. Don't recall saying anything about skip or the like or them being natural. But I guess fiction is more fun than facts. Besides, it's just Layne right... let's just make up some bull**** about him to try and dirty up his name just b/c I have something personal against him.

Just let it die dude

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by str8flexed [/i]
[B]yea I remember that... I said I thought ronnie trained hard but I wasn't really blown away by anyone else. Don't recall saying anything about skip or the like or them being natural. But I guess fiction is more fun than facts. Besides, it's just Layne right... let's just make up some bull**** about him to try and dirty up his name just b/c I have something personal against him.

Just let it die dude [/B][/QUOTE]


im not making **** up dude. i have read things that uve sed about skip and his natural status.

and i really have nothing "personal" against you.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IronMW [/i]
[B]Ronnie Coleman should be seriously respected just like Pat Tillman, who was killed in Afghanistan after he set aside his professional football career to serve in the U.S. Army.

What is the only possible reason Ronnie worked as a cop? Because your safety was his top priority.

Not your "champion"... how dare you. [/B][/QUOTE] I have read some strange things on this site, but I have never read anything posted by someone so delusional as this before.

Pat Tillman left a rather lucrative career as a pro football player to serve his country, and ultimately die for his beliefs. That's a hero.

Ronnie Coleman LEFT public service to persue the money of a career as an IFBB pro. That's not a hero.

Despite what people like you think my safety was not his top priority. I doubt if it was even in his top 10.

Why he stopped being an officer was a decision that he made, and only he knows why. But to try and hold him up as hero, and comparing him to real heros, is utterly absurd.

50 years from now Ronnie Coleman will be a footnote of this carnival sideshow you call pro bodybuilding. It won't be long before someone else comes along who is willing to risk even more to win and the cycle will continue.

JamesBarlow,

Coleman spent many years working as a cop AND being a pro athlete.

He's not a hero NOW that he retired from law enforcement?!!!
Are you telling me someone would only be heroic
if they never retired? In your mind the day a firefighter stops saving lives, all of the lives he already saved no longer count?
(Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding James, but that's all I can make of your reply.)

Those years he worked as a cop, going to work in a bullet proof vest daily, he was getting paid a fraction of what he earned as bodybuilder which was perhaps as much or more than Pat Tillman's lucrative salary...It is not my intention to even say that is relevant. I just felt that pointing that out for JamesBarlow.

If Coleman was getting paid a fraction of his BB career's earnings to perform a job with the primary function of "protecting & serving"... WHY DID HE DO IT? He risked everything daily! Just because he did not lose his life like the great Pat Tillman, Coleman is not less of a hero. If Coleman had been killed while on duty, would you have a different take on this matter?

Perhaps Ronnie retired because of unappreciative destructive criticism (speculation) of him enforcing the law while (presumably)breaking it.... I'm not kidding myself, but wording this in attempt to avoid casting aspersions....I'm just saying, one could view his effort to fight crime as him protecting & serving for as long as he felt he could. I mean, the guy's Mr. Olympia- he must answer to steroid suspicion on a daily basis!!........This may or may not have anything to do with his decision to retire from police work. His decision to do so is really irrelevant to this discussion. The point is, he made an effort to risk his a$$ to protect others & I for one will forever appreciate any man that even did that for one day out of his life....I suppose people like Deen should be happy now that he no longer works as a policeman, as backwards as I think that sounds. Are you happy now Deen? A man can't even risk his ass for people without someone like you talking sh!t.

They say you can't please everyone...even Abraham Lincoln was assasinated, well even Jesus was.

They also say some people's opinions don't matter. IMO, Deen's & JamesBarlow have shared opinions about Ronnie Coleman that don't matter.

Incidentally... can't we all agree that the guy is one hell of a bodybuilder. I mean, compared to you?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by JamesBarlow [/i]
[B]I have read some strange things on this site, but I have never read anything posted by someone so delusional as this before.

Pat Tillman left a rather lucrative career as a pro football player to serve his country, and ultimately die for his beliefs. That's a hero.

Ronnie Coleman LEFT public service to persue the money of a career as an IFBB pro. That's not a hero.

Despite what people like you think my safety was not his top priority. I doubt if it was even in his top 10.

Why he stopped being an officer was a decision that he made, and only he knows why. But to try and hold him up as hero, and comparing him to real heros, is utterly absurd.

50 years from now Ronnie Coleman will be a footnote of this carnival sideshow you call pro bodybuilding. It won't be long before someone else comes along who is willing to risk even more to win and the cycle will continue. [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't agree with the comparison of Ronnie Coleman and Pat Tillman either but how the hell would you know if your safety wasn't important to Ronnie. Just because he uses steroids? He neevr stopped being an officer he works part time now. If you saw his video the "unbelieveable" you would know that he worked as a full time officer even after being a two time Mr. O. Ronnie will be alot more than a "footnote" in pro bodybuilding years from now.:rolleyes: He is almost gauranteed to win his 7th Olympia tying Arnold. In the bodybuilding world he will be remembered as a god. He'll live forever.

good post MightyMikeyG... Ronnie Coleman is a far cry from a "footnote." ...JamesBarlow, have you been smoking crack this morning?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IronMW [/i]
[B]JamesBarlow,

Coleman spent many years working as a cop AND being a pro athlete.

He's not a hero NOW that he retired from law enforcement?!!!
Are you telling me someone would only be heroic
if they never retired? In your mind the day a firefighter stops saving lives, all of the lives he already saved no longer count?
(Please correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding James, but that's all I can make of your reply.)

Those years he worked as a cop, going to work in a bullet proof vest daily, he was getting paid a fraction of what he earned as bodybuilder which was perhaps as much or more than Pat Tillman's lucrative salary...It is not my intention to even say that is relevant. I just felt that pointing that out for JamesBarlow.

[/B][/QUOTE] I do think that anyone that chooses to server as a police office is a hero. Everything that you have said about being an officer is correct. They risk their lives, wear bullet proof vests, and don't get paid that well.

My problem with what has been going on here is that many seem to be blurring the line between his work as a police officer and his career as a Pro Bodybuilder.

They are two very separate things and should be looked at as such.

He was, and is, a hero for serving as a police officer. That doesn't, however, mean that we can't be critical of his actions today. It certainly doesn't mean that would should hold him out as some kind of role model or something to aspire to because he was an officer.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Mighty Mikey G [/i]
[B]Ronnie will be alot more than a "footnote" in pro bodybuilding years from now.:rolleyes: He is almost gauranteed to win his 7th Olympia tying Arnold. In the bodybuilding world he will be remembered as a god. He'll live forever. [/B][/QUOTE] That means he only needs 3 more wins to beat Lee Haney.

I just read in a post on this message referring to Ronnie Coleman being remembered as a "God". LMAO!! You've got to be kidding.

He's a huge bodybuilder, and that is about it. Mr. Olympia winner yes, I'll give him his props there. But he did not part the seas, and in the greater picture Bodybuilding is a very small microcosm in the world of sports, if not socety in general. And he better save some of that money for those future health problems that he WILL have.

So keep postings fellas, this is REAL entertaining!

JamesBarlow,

It would seem you put the crack pipe down & took some ginkgo. Thank you for admitting the guy is a hero for his police work.
Why the hell is he not a role model? He rose to the absolute pinnacle of his chosen profession! Choose your own, fine. Aspire to your own liking, but you can't deny the guy that is regarded as the best in the world is THE role model for his profession. And keep in mind, we are talking about PROFESSIONAL BB...which necessitates freakish proportions by today's prevailing standards. That's what it is. And for what it is, Ronnie is regarded as the best. Even if you have moral reservations or lack comprehension of this subject & sport, surely you can see that for an ASPIRING bodybuilder, someone who wants giant biceps & a 6 pack, a guy like Coleman is something of a role model.

As a "separate" issue, we should all aspire to perform selfless acts of courage like the guy did (& according to MightyMikeyG) still does, as a crime fighter.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by str8flexed [/i]
[B]yes I'm sure you see guys walking around your gym like this all the time right :rolleyes: [/B][/QUOTE]

In contest condition, just like this photo? No, I don't. But there are many guys in my gym that WOULD look like this, if it were contest day. I don't get it.

There are some big guys in my gym.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by IronMW [/i]
[B]Just to clarify:

Some say the U.S. should not have attacked Afghanistan. Whether the U.S. was right in doing so or not, it cannot be denied that any man like Pat Tillman willing to die because he believes he is defending others is a special human being. A real champion.

In this way, Ronnie Coleman is special. Despite what anyone says from any perspective about steroids being right or wrong, the man was willing to die for others.

It seems unconscionable to say Ronnie is not a champion.

And you said he is not your champion because he was a cop?!! WTF. [/B][/QUOTE]

IronMW. Nicely stated -- all your posts. Ronnie was a police officer, because (in his own words) "he loved it". He eventually moved to part-time, and I think he may have quit completely, but I'm not sure about that. Probably became a problem with time. Since he's gotten contracts, makes appearances, etc.

Ronnie can certainly be a role model. I don't see why not. Whether you choose to see him as your own role model -- obviously that's a personal choice. I'm fascinated by the guy. His size, his strength. And I do believe that he is a genuinely nice guy. He seems very nice, personable, he has a college degree. He doesn't seem to walk around with an arrogant attitude. He still lives in Arlington, TX. Still watches out for his mother.

The standard "story" of many pros, is the move to California and become major *******s. Ronnie seems different.

So, all of you that don't want to look at him as a hero or a role model, that's your choice. But don't knock those of us that admire him, and have a great deal of respect for what he has accomplished.

Ragnarok,

Thank you. I think your points on him being a genuine & nice guy are very well taken in this discussion. Certainly those are traits of a role model.

1. If this were truly a free country, steroids would be legal.
2. If steroids were legal Pro BB would not have to look the other way on this issue.

IF THOSE 2 CONDITIONS WERE IN PLACE, NO ONE WOULD HAVE EVER THOUGHT TWICE ABOUT RONNIE COLEMAN BEING A HEROIC CHAMPION.

Even though these 2 conditions are not in place, it remains undeniable that he is a hero & a champion. If you are thinking logically: participating in police work requires courage & participating in ProBB requires the work ethic & discipline of a champion....Participating in BOTH is an admirable, perhaps phenomenal feat...(Again, name another cop that is also a wealthy celebrity athlete). Things are the way they are in this country. Sometimes that is unfortunate, but we must all do what we have to do to answer our calling in life, follow our dreams, and serve our fellow man.

I cannot respect someone that does not see this.

[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=3644744#post3644744[/url]

Hope that link works, if not search for the thread "O/T, Let the flames begin" by Deenur. To anyone interested in this dicussion, that thread is closely related.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Paracelsus [/i]
[B]I just read in a post on this message referring to Ronnie Coleman being remembered as a "God". LMAO!! You've got to be kidding.

He's a huge bodybuilder, and that is about it. Mr. Olympia winner yes, I'll give him his props there. But he did not part the seas, and in the greater picture Bodybuilding is a very small microcosm in the world of sports, if not socety in general. And he better save some of that money for those future health problems that he WILL have.

So keep postings fellas, this is REAL entertaining! [/B][/QUOTE]

No one parted the red sea pimpin...we are a product of evolution, not creationism ;)

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ragnarok [/i]
[B]In contest condition, just like this photo? No, I don't. But there are many guys in my gym that WOULD look like this, if it were contest day. I don't get it.

There are some big guys in my gym. [/B][/QUOTE]

wow, then they should go win the world championships huh?

Pro bbers will never get any respect untill the drug issue is addressed, not a minute sooner.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ragnarok [/i]
[B]
Ronnie can certainly be a role model. I don't see why not. Whether you choose to see him as your own role model -- obviously that's a personal choice. [/B][/QUOTE] I expect police officers to uphold the law, not break it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Paracelsus [/i]
[B]I just read in a post on this message referring to Ronnie Coleman being remembered as a "God". LMAO!! You've got to be kidding.

He's a huge bodybuilder, and that is about it. Mr. Olympia winner yes, I'll give him his props there. But he did not part the seas, and in the greater picture Bodybuilding is a very small microcosm in the world of sports, if not socety in general. And he better save some of that money for those future health problems that he WILL have.

So keep postings fellas, this is REAL entertaining! [/B][/QUOTE]

IF you read my post correctly you would've saw that I said "in the bodybuilding world."

Please learn to read correctly before you make smartass comments:rolleyes:

Have a nice day

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Barchetta [/i]
[B]I expect police officers to uphold the law, not break it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you feel the same way about driving 71 mph in a 70 mph zone?

What is funny about this debate is that it echoes a very similar one in the music community as well (I'm in a band, so I can talk about this crap ;) )

All the "real musicians" bitch and moan about the "pop musicians" that lip-sync and have others write their music for them or dance or whatever, and get pissed that Britney Spears types get all the fame and money when those that are truly "artists" don't get as much respect or accolades.

Now, replace "real musicians" with "natural bodybuilder" ,"pop musician" with "IFBB pro", "lip sync" with "steroid use", and "artists" with "REAL BODY BUILDERS" and it becomes the same old story.

I am a new bodybuilder, I've made the choice to be a NATURAL bodybuilder, just like I am a REAL musician, but I have to go with the 'live and let live' mentality here.

I don't like poppy music, but there are people that do, and there is a market for that. Same thing with steroid using bodybuilders...there are people that want to see that!

I would have to say that if NATURAL bodybuilding would stop pointing out the fact that the contestants did everything they did without pharmaceutical help, and rather play up the more NATURAL look of the contestants, then maybe it would be closer to the 'rock' vs 'pop' analogy that I just made.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by johnnyironboard [/i]
[B]Do you feel the same way about driving 71 mph in a 70 mph zone? [/B][/QUOTE] Don't equate speeding 1 mph over the limit with illegal drug use.

Unless you're using drugs while going 1 mile over the speed limit.



sorry, the thread needed some levity.

:D

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Barchetta [/i]
[B]Don't equate speeding 1 mph over the limit with illegal drug use. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ask a judge. Breaking the law is breaking the law, period. Going 1 mile an hour over the speed limit is illegal. A cop could pull you over for speeding at 1mph over the speed limit. And you could either pay the fine, or show up in traffic court to contest it.

As has already been stated over and over and over in this thread, I would prefer police officers be on AAS. I would prefer a cop jacked up on gear to protect me against some half-crazed, gun-toting guy who's high on PCP and hell bent on "doin' some killin'". I think cops SHOULD be on gear. Safer for them and safer for us.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by str8flexed [/i]
[B]wow, then they should go win the world championships huh? [/B][/QUOTE]

There are several that could. But the reality is, there are a lot of bodybuilders that have no interest in competing. I don't. That's not why I'm in it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Ragnarok [/i]
[B]Ask a judge. Breaking the law is breaking the law, period. Going 1 mile an hour over the speed limit is illegal. A cop could pull you over for speeding at 1mph over the speed limit. And you could either pay the fine, or show up in traffic court to contest it.

As has already been stated over and over and over in this thread, I would prefer police officers be on AAS. I would prefer a cop jacked up on gear to protect me against some half-crazed, gun-toting guy who's high on PCP and hell bent on "doin' some killin'". I think cops SHOULD be on gear. Safer for them and safer for us. [/B][/QUOTE] Ask a judge what the penalty is for driving 71mph, then ask him the penalty for possesion of schedule II drugs. You don't think that AAS affect a persons emotions??? Ever hear of 'roid rage???????????????