Is "muscle confusion" real?

The term gets thrown around left and right. Even my first PT (yes I now realize many of them are a bit clueless) recommended I work different body parts with different exercises and weights quite frequently, not that I think that one would reap premium rewards from such an approach, but my question still remains: is muscle confusion something real, effective and noteworthy?

Seems to me it couldn't be THAT important seeing that so many people get good results with a routine lineup of free weight compound exercises.

[QUOTE=UltimateAeroSSC;689955851]The term gets thrown around left and right. Even my first PT (yes I now realize many of them are a bit clueless) recommended I work different body parts with different exercises and weights quite frequently, not that I think that one would reap premium rewards from such an approach, but my question still remains: is muscle confusion something real, effective and noteworthy?

Seems to me it couldn't be THAT important seeing that so many people get good results with a routine lineup of free weight compound exercises.[/QUOTE]

No, muscles don't have brains. As long as you're progressing in compound movements weight/reps from workout to workout or week to week with a few accessory exercises, it will provide real, effective and noteworthy results.

[QUOTE=H1t_V3r4c;689958321]No, muscles don't have brains. As long as you're progressing in compound movements weight/reps from workout to workout or week to week with a few accessory exercises, it will provide real, effective and noteworthy results.[/QUOTE]

Seems pretty stupid that this muscle confusion rumor is still talked about then. But when you think about it, yeah, that sounds stupid to think you're "confusing" your muscles. I think what they mean by confusion is really just get it out of its comfort zone. But then again, isn't that what weight lifting is all about? Only the most ignorant bunch would think they'd yield huge results from same sets/reps/weight all the time. Every time you increase the weights you're "confusing" your muscles.

[QUOTE=UltimateAeroSSC;689966881]Seems pretty stupid that this muscle confusion rumor is still talked about then. But when you think about it, yeah, that sounds stupid to think you're "confusing" your muscles. I think what they mean by confusion is really just get it out of its comfort zone. But then again, isn't that what weight lifting is all about? Only the most ignorant bunch would think they'd yield huge results from same sets/reps/weight all the time. [b]Every time you increase the weights you're "confusing" your muscles.[/b][/QUOTE]

Great way to put it!

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

i agree with progression, only thing i see benefiting by changing up the exercises is by hitting the muscles at a different angle to stimulate need fibers, for more muscle growth, not for sure though

[QUOTE=UltimateAeroSSC;689955851]Is "muscle confusion" real? [/QUOTE]
It's real insofar that it's a clever catchphrase that's made a few people a [b]lot[/b] of money.

As far as building mass/strength, it's of no real value, especially when compared to the Holy Grail of [i]all[/i] disciplines of weight training--[i]Progression.[/i]

[QUOTE=usfbullsfan100;689979191]i agree with progression, only thing i see benefiting by changing up the exercises is by hitting the muscles at a different angle to stimulate need fibers, for more muscle growth, not for sure though[/QUOTE]

Even still, doing compound exercises is more efficient than isolation exercises, even if their point is to hit the muscle in different ways/angles. I guess you'd have above average strength in all directions...or you could have exceptional strength for all body parts with compound exercises. Yeah?

I was pretty confused after my last set of cleans last night.

Charles Poliquin, a noted strength coach, once wrote an article on this topic. He mentioned that out of a fairly large number of athletes observed--mainly Olympic ones, if I remember correctly--that only a very small percentage could get away with changing programmes almost every time out, something like 2%. Now these athletes are the elite of their sport, so taking that into consideration, and factoring in their better-than-average recovery abilities, the fact that all they do is train AND rest (for the most part), and the usage of steroids in some of the athletes, then if you apply the "confusion theory" to the general populace, the chances of someone doing something different every couple of workouts and making gains would be very, very small.

Inb4someonecallsmepoliquiinnuthugger.:D

It is true that your muscles don't think and that attacking them from different angles will probably cause an adaptive response, but having said that, if you don't progress in a given movement i.e. squats, inclines, presses, rows, etc., and keep progressing until you stall out i.e. six to eight weeks later, then how will you know what your progress in that given movement could be? JMO...

(P.S. Ironwill's post is well thought out and I agree 100%).

The fact that after one has done a certain routine for a while and then changes and gets good results is as far as I'd look into muscle confusion

Muscles don't think, so obviously they can't literally be confused.

There is validity to working the muscles in different ways, in that alterations to the movement pattern, range of motion, intensity and so forth will cause different motor recruitment patterns, thus (using chest as an example) doing flat BB bench, DB bench and machine chest press may stimulate more growth than the BB bench alone.

However, this all runs back to the 80/20 rule of lifting, ie that 80% of results come from 20% of the work (this isn't an exact science, but it gets the point across). Doing lots of different variations of the same essential movement may yield slightly better results than just focusing on the basic movement, but there are better things you could be doing with your time.

Going the "muscle confusion" route, and getting rid of one exercise to do another (eg removing BB bench entirely to do DB bench, as oppose to focusing on one and using the other as assistance) does not support longterm progress, and progress is more important than getting a different 10 muscle fibres to fire.

[IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p173/allpro18/muscleconfusion.jpg[/IMG]

In order to be confused one must have a thought process. Muscles don't think therefor they can not be confused.

[QUOTE=GuyJin;690085531]Charles Poliquin, a noted strength coach, once wrote an article on this topic. He mentioned that out of a fairly large number of athletes observed--mainly Olympic ones, if I remember correctly--that only a very small percentage could get away with changing programmes almost every time out, something like 2%. Now these athletes are the elite of their sport, so taking that into consideration, and factoring in their better-than-average recovery abilities, the fact that all they do is train AND rest (for the most part), and the usage of steroids in some of the athletes, then if you apply the "confusion theory" to the general populace, the chances of someone doing something different every couple of workouts and making gains would be very, very small.

Inb4someonecallsmepoliquiinnuthugger.:D

It is true that your muscles don't think and that attacking them from different angles will probably cause an adaptive response, but having said that, if you don't progress in a given movement i.e. squats, inclines, presses, rows, etc., and keep progressing until you stall out i.e. six to eight weeks later, then how will you know what your progress in that given movement could be? JMO...

(P.S. Ironwill's post is well thought out and I agree 100%).[/QUOTE]

yes, most of poliquin's material is mainly applicable to advanced trainees.

a change in methods is good occasionally (not too often), can be a useful tool to aid progress for intermediate & advanced athletes but has nothing to do with confusion, rather periodization.

general public has a hard time motivating themselves to do any sort of exercise, for them constant non-stop variety is vital simply because it may keep things more interesting otherwise doing the same thing can get boring for them & they will quickly quit. taking into account this behavioral loophole, certain companies crafted the clever marketing catchphrase as iw08 pointed out & were able to convince the public that muscle confusion is a scientific principle that magnifies results when in fact they were just keeping them from getting bored & quitting. any exercise is better than no exercise so from that point of view i guess they are right.

for serious athletes looking to gain size & strength, changing things too often will sabotage progress. progress is attained by developing efficiency in dealing with a certain a loading pattern (i.e. repeating it & getting used to it), then forcing yourself to do more & more regardless of how hard or boring it feels. changing the loading pattern can come perhaps after the couch potato has purchased his 20th gimmick.

nice post, gomez

[QUOTE=all pro;690162861][IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p173/allpro18/muscleconfusion.jpg[/IMG]

In order to be confused one must have a thought process. Muscles don't think therefor they can not be confused.[/QUOTE]
Lmao all pro...is that tits on that guys arm!!!

hahahahaha

[QUOTE=pumplikecuming;690314231]Lmao all pro...is that tits on that guys arm!!!

hahahahaha[/QUOTE]

YUP! That's muscle confusion at work.

[QUOTE=all pro;690162861][IMG]http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p173/allpro18/muscleconfusion.jpg[/IMG]

In order to be confused one must have a thought process. Muscles don't think therefor they can not be confused.[/QUOTE]

lol Like I said, people don't (hopefully...) think muscles can get confused in that you can trick them. The meaning, in my eyes, is that you are hitting them in a way that stretches one's comfort zone (whether strength/range/mobility wise) beyond the normal limit. However like it's already been said, if you don't work the muscles out in a set fashion for at least a few weeks, how could you know that you've improved?

So yeah, I feel more informed now, thanks. =p If the idea of the confusion is having your muscles get triggered by different means, surely you could just find an exercise for it and progress from there. Perhaps one of the groups of people that fall into this belief system is the type that performs the same exercises with the same reps, sets and weights.

Perhaps instead of thinking through that they could just add weight/sets/reps or decrease recovery time, they think their lack of results could be filled with variety. Let's not forget how easy it would be to skip around the gym doing isolation exercises like we're doing endurance training. Fun and easy, yet ineffective.

[QUOTE=UltimateAeroSSC;690526921]lol Like I said, people don't (hopefully...) think muscles can get confused in that you can trick them. The meaning, in my eyes, is that you are hitting them in a way that stretches one's comfort zone (whether strength/range/mobility wise) beyond the normal limit. However like it's already been said, if you don't work the muscles out in a set fashion for at least a few weeks, how could you know that you've improved?

So yeah, I feel more informed now, thanks. =p If the idea of the confusion is having your muscles get triggered by different means, surely you could just find an exercise for it and progress from there. Perhaps one of the groups of people that fall into this belief system is the type that performs the same exercises with the same reps, sets and weights.

Perhaps instead of thinking through that they could just add weight/sets/reps or decrease recovery time, they think their lack of results could be filled with variety. Let's not forget how easy it would be to skip around the gym doing isolation exercises like we're doing endurance training. Fun and easy, yet ineffective.[/QUOTE]
yes but muscle confusions just a way of stating it...if you do 3 sets of 8 in the gym for 6 months ur muscles will jst start getting used to the same movement and sam reps same volume of sets and reps. but if u change it to 3 sets of 12...its gonna change it up and u might be more tired after...

[QUOTE=muscleman17;690543091]yes but muscle confusions just a way of stating it...if you do 3 sets of 8 in the gym for 6 months ur muscles will jst start getting used to the same movement and sam reps same volume of sets and reps. but if u change it to 3 sets of 12...its gonna change it up and u might be more tired after...[/QUOTE]

You have to decide how you want to workout. What are your goals? Do you want power/strength, hypertrophy or endurance? If you train 3 sets of 12, you're getting more into hypertrophy. Doing workouts like 5x5's are more about strength. If you care more about how you look than how you perform, by all means do 3 sets of 12. You're not confusing your muscles regardless of how many sets or reps you do and when. How can you confuse them when they are being told by your brain that you are about to switch it up?

[QUOTE=UltimateAeroSSC;690545541]You have to decide how you want to workout. What are your goals? Do you want power/strength, hypertrophy or endurance? If you train 3 sets of 12, you're getting more into hypertrophy. Doing workouts like 5x5's are more about strength. If you care more about how you look than how you perform, by all means do 3 sets of 12. You're not confusing your muscles regardless of how many sets or reps you do and when. How can you confuse them when they are being told by your brain that you are about to switch it up?[/QUOTE]

well just a thought but dont u think they would be use to doing low reps. the all of a sudden one day ur doing twice as meny reps? dont u think they wouldnt be used to that many reps?

if looking good is 12 reps but not performance then what is looking good and performance?

[QUOTE=VolsGoneWild;690055501]I was pretty confused after my last set of cleans last night.[/QUOTE]

lawl

[QUOTE=muscleman17;690546831]well just a thought but dont u think they would be use to doing low reps. the all of a sudden one day ur doing twice as meny reps? dont u think they wouldnt be used to that many reps?

if looking good is 12 reps but not performance then what is looking good and performance?[/QUOTE]

They wouldn't be used to the fluctuation of reps, which is actually bad for a couple reasons. First, your body has nothing to build off of. If you start doing exercises for triceps like the bench press, then switch to pushups, then dips, then etc...how can you/your body ever focus on improving? By the time you learn what proper form is, you're already on to the next exercise. By the time you try to focus on adding extra weight/sets/reps to that exercise, you've already moved on.

You have no time or way to improve in a certain aspect if you don't give it the time of day. How easy is it to get good at basketball if you then immediately switch to tennis, then to football, then to soccer? How easy is it to divulge deeply into a possible career field if you study psychology for 30 minutes, biology for 45 minutes and economics for an hour? While these examples may be a little bad, you get the idea. How in the world can you improve yourself on these exercises if you constantly switch up? Quality over quantity.

The other thing is that even if you COULD improve in said areas, do you know how hard it would be to track it? If you're doing eight different exercises on any given day, how do you know which ones are/are not the cause of the results?

My point is that by sticking with the simple stuff, at least in the beginning, is probably key for most people. Less of a chance to get intimidated/overwhelmed and end up quitting or taking a prolonged break. Less chance of too many variables screwing with your success and surely enough: less chance of over analyzing things and wondering if you'll ever get what you tried for.

Hypertrophy is really the increase of the muscle's SIZE, but not necessarily the strength. Bodybuilding is a sport that focuses a lot on hypertrophy. If you want performance, you need to focus on strength training. It will provide hypertrophy as well, but not to the extent of a bodybuilding routine. Keep the sets and reps at 4-6 while using free weight compound exercises and you'll see an increase in both.

There's some good ones on this site. Here's a great routine you should consider: [url]http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/[/url]

The body needs a variety of stimulus through different rep ranges, exercises, volumes, intensity techniques.

However it is generally recommended that you spend at least 3-6 months each on tried and proven programs which explore these concepts. This gives your body a chance to actually improve in that area. Hopping around too much is counter-productive, to me it seems like a good way to slowly progress everywhere.

muscle confusion if thats what you want to call it is probably for people like me who are hitting the weights to burn calories.im not eating to get bigger,id like to get a little smaller in some areas.so i figure if i switch up the lifts alot i dont get too used to it,and have to expend more calories doing it.a few months ago i was doing 30 or 40 pullups,then switched to chins which seemed to take a little more out of me for awhile,then i switched to neutral grip for the same reason.i do that with most things but i dont think that would be a good way to put on muscle quickly.

[QUOTE=tomsfish;690776061]muscle confusion if thats what you want to call it is probably for people like me who are hitting the weights to burn calories.im not eating to get bigger,id like to get a little smaller in some areas.so i figure if i switch up the lifts alot i dont get too used to it,and have to expend more calories doing it.a few months ago i was doing 30 or 40 pullups,then switched to chins which seemed to take a little more out of me for awhile,then i switched to neutral grip for the same reason.i do that with most things but i dont think that would be a good way to put on muscle quickly.[/QUOTE]

If you mean fat loss, cardio would probably be the best bet. Especially high interval training. If you're talking about calorie deficit, that's everything to do with your diet. Lifting itself will have nothing to do with that. Figure out your calorie intake and subtract 500 calories or something like that. You can workout until you're blue in the face, but if you stuff your face full of food all day, you're not in a calorie deficit, regardless of how hard you worked in the gym.