My brother was a long time sufferer of Crohn's disease and he tried practically every treatment and none really worked. Then he started getting regular Infliximab infusions and he is now living a totally normal life. Have you tried this OP?
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My brother was a long time sufferer of Crohn's disease and he tried practically every treatment and none really worked. Then he started getting regular Infliximab infusions and he is now living a totally normal life. Have you tried this OP?
Good to this route is finally being explored.
Not saying its definitely the answer, but there is TON of correlation between intestinal parasites and the amount of auto immune disease.
Not so much diabetes though, thats likely genetic or viral.
In b4
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfc1cuc72L1qe6mn3o1_500.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Tru_Knyte;858795963]In b4
[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfc1cuc72L1qe6mn3o1_500.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
[img]http://latetothemoviesdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/space-balls-alien-dance_o_gifsoup-com.gif?w=640[/img]
Good grief.. I can understand wanting to try alternative means to treat a disease, but intentionally giving yourself a parasite..? Thats like a fat chick intentionally getting a tapeworm to get skinnier.. how can it possibly end well? Lets say you cure yourself of crohns disease but now have hookworms trying to get in your organs O_O Stay safe OP.
Best of luck.
subbed out of curiosity. Hope it works out for you OP.
[QUOTE=ZenBowman;851909423]This, good job bro.
I'd also recommend a squat toilet for any digestive/intestinal issues.[/QUOTE]
At one point, I wanted to spread a rumor that Obama cured his acid reflux with a squat toilet and that he got the idea in college when he traveled to Pakistan, etc. I still think it could make it to snopes.
[QUOTE=KarD786;851930103]Definitely in for the results. I have asthma, and auto immune thyroid. I would do anything to get rid of the thyroid. The asthma is under control but there is no cure for hashimoto's thyroiditis[/QUOTE]
Nasty stuff. FWIW a lot of research is being done into GFCF diets to treat Hashimoto's. Leaky Gut Syndrome and all that.
[QUOTE=HannibalHill;857311103]Glad it's going well man.
Just had another 'inspection' the other day and it was horrible, waiting to see what they prescribe.
Out of interest ever tried VSL? I've ordered a small amount just to give it a try.[/QUOTE]
VSL #3 is a powerful probiotic that's provided relief to a lot of people with IBD and let to long periods of remission. There's also a powerful German brand probiotic unavailable in many countries because it contains e. coli.
If you or OP feel like spending a few grand, there are clinics - in places like Australia and the US - that'll do full on fecal transplant therapy. Normally, it's reserved for old people with bad C-Diff infections, but increasingly it's being used to treat IBD and other autoimmune diseases. You check into a clinic, they clean you out with antibiotics, stuff someone else's stool up in you, and you're on your way. It's been known even to reverse sclerosing cholangitis - scarring of the bile ducts that can lead to liver failure.
[QUOTE=Quietus;858797093]Good grief.. I can understand wanting to try alternative means to treat a disease, but intentionally giving yourself a parasite..? Thats like a fat chick intentionally getting a tapeworm to get skinnier.. how can it possibly end well? Lets say you cure yourself of crohns disease but now have hookworms trying to get in your organs O_O Stay safe OP.[/QUOTE]
You've got fungii, parasites, and bacteria in your large intestine that could do some serious harm if they overtook the good stuff in you. OP is just trying to restore some balance to his immune system.
[QUOTE=puppet_master;858792943]Disregards science
Acquire parasites[/QUOTE]
The whole premise is scientific. Read from the links in the OP; that is a fraction of what I have read before deciding to do this. I can provide more for anyone interested.
I'm not the sort of person who would risk health on faith healing, or anything else that was not grounded in science.
[QUOTE=KenOath;858794803]My brother was a long time sufferer of Crohn's disease and he tried practically every treatment and none really worked. Then he started getting regular Infliximab infusions and he is now living a totally normal life. Have you tried this OP?[/QUOTE]
I would have had to maybe if things had got progressively worse. Whole point of me going down this route was to try and avoid long term dependence on drugs.
The one they were offering me was Azathioprine which is quite a powerful immuno-suppressant. You have to have flu jabs every year etc, regular blood work to make sure it doesn't f you up, and it carries increased risk of leukaemia and skin cancer. Infliximab is in much the same as one I just mentioned, I think it may be even stronger.
[QUOTE=Quietus;858797093]Good grief.. I can understand wanting to try alternative means to treat a disease, but intentionally giving yourself a parasite..? Thats like a fat chick intentionally getting a tapeworm to get skinnier.. how can it possibly end well? Lets say you cure yourself of crohns disease but now have hookworms trying to get in your organs O_O Stay safe OP.[/QUOTE]
Human hookworms have nothing to gain from harming their host, as they would die too. They stay in the small bowel once they are adults for their entire life. They cannot increase in numbers within the host either. If I eve need to get rid of them, I just take a worming tablet that can be bought over the counter at any chemist and they are wiped out within hours.
[QUOTE=LegosInMyEgos;858795933]Good to this route is finally being explored.
Not saying its definitely the answer, but there is TON of correlation between intestinal parasites and the amount of auto immune disease.
Not so much diabetes though, thats likely genetic or viral.[/QUOTE]
Agree. This is not a cure and I will only benefit while hosting worms.
Re the diabetes, I know of some people out there that are treating their T1 diabetes with helminths, but as you say, the actual root cause of the disease is more likely genetic or viral. Not sure that was clear when I mentioned it before.
[QUOTE=Mode7;849204243]Within about 5min I got an INTENSE itch. It feels exactly like you would imagine tiny larvae burrowing through your skin would. [B]To be fair they don't actually burrow[/B], but produce an enzyme that eats through the epidermis allowing them to enter the body. [/QUOTE]
I was grossed out when I thought they were eating their way into your body and was relieved and reassured to discover that they merely vomit worm acid onto you to in order to enter by melting your skin and flesh.
[QUOTE=Mr Beer;858844783]I was grossed out when I thought they were eating their way into your body and was relieved and reassured to discover that they merely vomit worm acid onto you to in order to enter by melting your skin and flesh.[/QUOTE]
lol... since you put it like that... Good job they are so small!
[QUOTE=StoliFun;858805533]
If you or OP feel like spending a few grand, there are clinics - in places like Australia and the US - that'll do full on fecal transplant therapy. Normally, it's reserved for old people with bad C-Diff infections, but increasingly it's being used to treat IBD and other autoimmune diseases. You check into a clinic, they clean you out with antibiotics, stuff someone else's stool up in you, and you're on your way. It's been known even to reverse sclerosing cholangitis - scarring of the bile ducts that can lead to liver failure.
[/QUOTE]
Wow, never knew about the PSC. I have sclerosing cholangitis too so always nice to know there are options....even if they don't found particularly pleasant!
Haha, this thread is pretty funny. Hope the worm vomit is going well Mode7.
[QUOTE=godsangina2;851935413]What is the life expectancy in these 3rd world countries where everyone has worms?[/QUOTE]
It's pretty hard to quantitate the effect of these helminths on life expectancy but some of the Caribbean countries where these things are rampant boast pretty decent life expectancy (>75yrs) despite the lack of proper sanitation, medical care, poverty etc.
Good stuff OP, I'm curious to see how this pans out. Radiolab did an hour long special on this subject last year. It's pretty fascinating and you can listen to it on their website if you're interested. It explains why doctors think there are a lot more autoimmune disorders in developed and clean countries as opposed to third world countries. Worms can work for several autoimmune disorders but it will not work for type I diabetes because the beta cells in pancreas are already destroyed in childhood. It wouldn't matter if you can suppress the immune response because the insulin producing cells are already dead. Anyhows, good luck and keep us updated.
Radiolab link: www radiolab .org/2009/sep/07/
holy **** i laughed so hard at this in the middle of class everyone started to bertstare.jpg
not lolin' at the condition but at fellow miscers responses
Good job op.
Have collated updates so far and added latest:
[b]UPDATE 1, Day 7[/b]
It's been exactly a week since I inoculated myself. I have had no adverse affects so far. Rash on arm is barely visible now.
Dun goofed a bit as I puked the morning after St Paddy's because of over indulging. This is the exact time when worms would be making their way to my gut. Chances are a few of took a ride to the sewers.
Having said that, I reckon most must've made it, as I seem to be getting the 'worm bounce' that I have heard about from other users. It's a short lived period of up to a fortnight that can start from day 5, whereby you get sudden relief from your disease symptoms. As you know, if you have read from the beginning, I have CD and I suddenly start getting relief 2 days ago.
Unfortunately, I will go back to normal soon, and have to wait until week 10 before the permanent effects kick in. I will enjoy it while it lasts though.
Link below is a comprehensive timeline for worm inoculation, including expected effects on the body:
[url]http://www.foodsmatter.com/natural_medicine_comp_therapies/helminthic_therapy/articles/hookworm-timeline-03-12.pdf[/url]
So far so good though.
[b]UPDATE 2, Day 14[/b]
Rash has flared up again over last couple of days and is actually worse than the original entry rash. This is caused as immune system reacts again to antigens left by larvae on their entry. This is expected at this stage and shows worms have moulted and are now starting their adult phase. They should start attaching themselves to my ileum from tomorrow onwards (2 weeks since infection). It's at this point there is a chance I will get the 'worm flu' for a couple of weeks.
Don't know how much to read into this; but there was supposed to be high pollen count in London today and I have had none of my normal hay fever symptoms. More importantly, my Crohn's inflammation is at a 8 month low so I'm vitually symptomless, eating like a trojan and am back at the gym again. Not getting too excited as everything I have read says worms don't start working 'til wks 8-10. I might still be in the 'bounce' phase .
[b]Pic of rash that's come back[/b]
[img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/paaaatrick/IMG00434-20120327-0729.jpg[/img]
[b]UPDATE 3, Day 21[/b]
Weighed myself yesterday and have put on 3.5kg (7.7lbs) in last 3 weeks:
30/08/11 84kg
--- ill ---
20/03/12 69kg (inoculated with worms)
03/04/12 72.5kg
This is all down to inflammation going completely and my normal appetite coming back and being able to eat full meals again. Have also been back at the gym 4 days a week. It's been an amazing turn around.
This bounce phase is supposedly coming to an end though, and I have felt a little groggy last few days, which means I am most likely getting the 'worm flu' (see link at bottom and check out effects for days 6-14 onwards). Having said that it's not bad at all, still at work and gym etc. My actual Crohn's symptoms are still down at about 1-2/10, compared to the 5-7/10 they have been for last 9months.
Feels great to be virtually symptom free for first time in 9 months. I've weaned down from 3 anti-inflammatory steroid capsules a day, to 1 every other day. I'm not even sure I need that any more, but will carry on for now. I'm still prepared to get a little worse again bore seeing permanent improvements. My only real worry is that it seems to good to be true for the moment.
[url]http://www.foodsmatter.com/natural_medicine_comp_therapies/helminthic_therapy/articles/hookworm-timeline-03-12.pdf[/url]
Gratz brah. If accutane ever gives me Crohns I will consider this.
in cheers for the info op . mate has chrones aswel . will fwd him thread
Going good for you bud, keep us updated
[QUOTE=aleatoric;859603823] Worms can work for several autoimmune disorders but it will not work for type I diabetes because the beta cells in pancreas are already destroyed in childhood. It wouldn't matter if you can suppress the immune response because the insulin producing cells are already dead.
Anyhows, good luck and keep us updated.
/2009/sep/07/[/QUOTE]
I did some reading about the T1 diabetes & helminth treatment. You are quite right in fact; it's only been mooted as away to [B]prevent[/B] it from occurring, which makes sense, as it as an unwanted immune response that kills the pancreatic cells in the first place.
I'm not clued up about diabetes, but I guess it would be quite hard to detect the disease quickly enough to make adminsitering worms an effective treatment.
[QUOTE=Got_tickets;860808733]Going good for you bud, keep us updated[/QUOTE]
Cheers brah. Will do.
If someone has a gluten intolerance, can worms cure it?
Say, you take the worms and then you can eat donuts, bread, etc.
[QUOTE=Ballr4Life;863780141]If someone has a gluten intolerance, can worms cure it?
Say, you take the worms and then you can eat donuts, bread, etc.[/QUOTE]
Yes I believe so. This Dr his put his yeast allergy into remission with hookworm, and was able to eat pizza, bread etc for first time in years:
[url]http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/scotlandfeatures/4130478/I-let-50-worms-burrow-into-my-lungs-coughed-them-up-and-swallowed-them-It-freaks-people-out-but-it-cured-my-yeast-allergy.html[/url]
[url]http://www.lshtm.ac.uk/newsevents/news/2012/the_science_behind_embarrassing_bodies_.html[/url]
Solid progress!
Interesting experiment, I hope it works out for you. Crohns is a horrible condition, and I guess a lot of people don't realise how good it would feel to get rid of it without suffering from it.
The immune surpressant tabs sound a lot like what i'm on for my arthritis. It's called Methotrexate. Hate the idea of taking them, but if after a couple of years my symptoms subside, I will be taken off them and hope my symptoms don't return.
Related story...
Source: edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/12/09/worms.health/index.html
NOTE: Graphic Picture...
Man finds extreme healing eating parasitic worms
One day in 2004, a 29-year-old man with a terrible stomach problem stepped off a plane from the United States in Thailand. He wasn't there for the sights, or the food, or the beaches. He had traveled thousands of miles for worms -- parasitic worms whose eggs he intended to swallow by the thousands.
His doctor back home had told him his idea was crazy, that infesting himself with parasitic worms wouldn't do anything to help his ulcerative colitis, and in fact could make him very sick. The gastroenterologist had told the man if he pursued this course of treatment, he would refuse to be his doctor anymore.
"You'll be on your own," the man remembers the doctor telling him.
Indeed, he was on his own, standing in the office of a Thai doctor, asking her to pick the worm eggs out of an 11-year-old girl's stool.
Ten to 15 bloody bowel movements a day
This month, the man's experience treating himself with parasitic worms was published in a medical journal. Depending on who's telling the story, his journey is one of a brilliant, empowered patient who found an amazingly effective treatment for himself and possibly others who suffer the same debilitating disease -- or the dangerous tale of an irresponsible medical rebel who could have killed himself and, by telling his story, might be inspiring others to do the same thing. As with any experimental treatment, you should not try this at home.
The man -- who wants to protect his privacy, and be referred to only as "the patient" -- was 28 when he started having bloody bowel movements. Soon, he was having 10 to 15 bloody bowel movements a day.
"I was constantly running to the bathroom," he remembers.
Diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, nothing helped except high doses of steroids, which because of severe side effects, he could take only for limited periods of time. Soon, the patient became so sick he had to quit his job.
His gastroenterologist wanted to admit him to the hospital for an intravenous round of cyclosporine, a potentially helpful yet dangerous medicine that depresses the body's immune system and can increase the risk for getting cancer later in life.
If the cyclosporine didn't work -- and there was a 50 percent chance it wouldn't -- the doctor said his last hope was to remove his colon entirely, an extreme measure that would cause him to have to have a colostomy bag attached to him for the rest of his life to collect his stool.
"I was really at the end of the road," he says.
Meanwhile, the patient had gone on the internet and found an article in a medical journal by Dr. Joel Weinstock, chief of gastroenterology at Tufts University Medical School, which showed some ulcerative colitis patients found relief after ingesting the trichuris suis worm, a parasite that lives in the intestines of pigs.
The patient contacted Weinstock to ask him to treat him with worms, but Weinstock said no, since it wasn't approved for general use by the Food and Drug Administration and could only be done experimentally.
Other doctors also told him no.
"One very famous parasitologist in New York told me he had patients who were immigrants, and he could get the eggs from their stool," he says. "But he told me for legal reasons he couldn't do it. I understood completely. What if something went wrong and I died? He'd be blamed."
The patient became more and more convinced worms could help him. Behind Weinstock's study was this observation: Inflammatory bowel diseases such as ulcerative colitis affect nearly one in 250 people in the United States, but are extremely rare in underdeveloped parts of the world, such as sub-Saharan Africa.
Some experts believe parasitic worms might be part of the reason. When underdeveloped areas become developed, parasitic worms, also called helminths, become less common, and diseases such as ulcerative colitis become more common.
"We're not exposed now to helminths in places like the United States, and that probably has an impact," Weinstock says. "We've tried to separate ourselves from our natural environment with our sterile water and our sterile food, and that's saved lives, but there are negative consequences."
A 'terrible choice'
"I was facing a terrible choice," the patient remembers, between going with the doctor's treatment idea, which he really didn't want to do, and looking outside the United States for worm eggs to ingest.
He contacted researchers in various developing countries to ask if they could help him get his hands on some eggs. The researcher in Thailand was particularly helpful, and he got on a plane to visit with her.
After he arrived, the doctor in Thailand extracted roundworm eggs from the stool of an 11-year-old infected girl. She gave the trichuris trichiura eggs to the patient, but he now faced another hurdle. The eggs needed to be cleaned in case the girl had hepatitis or some other infectious disease, and the eggs needed to mature for them to be helpful. It was up to him to clean the eggs and grow them in a process called "embryonation."
"There wasn't much guidance on how to do it, since most people are trying to destroy these worms, not grow them," he says.
But he managed to do it and ingested first a dose of 500 eggs and then another of 1,000. The worms could live in his intestinal tract for many years.
Three months later he had fewer bloody bowel movements, and soon, none at all. His bowel movements were normal. He felt fine.
From time to time, when his ulcerative colitis would flare up again, he'd extract eggs from his own stool, and clean, embryonate and ingest them. Again, his symptoms would go away.
A reluctant researcher
By 2007, having made so much progress, the patient wanted to document his journey scientifically, and he contacted various researchers to help him, including P'ng Loke, who was then a postdoctoral fellow in immunology at the University of California-San Francisco.
"He e-mailed me, and I ignored it," Loke remembers. "I was very skeptical at first, but he convinced me to have lunch with him."
At their meeting, the patient laid out his story in more detail, and Loke became fascinated.
"It's an amazing story, and he's quite possibly one of the smartest people I know," he says.
By the end of their meeting, they'd started to hatch a plan: Loke and his team would do colonoscopies to track the patient's ulcerative colitis and look for the presence of worms in his colon.
The researcher, now an assistant professor of medical parasitology at New York University Langone Medical Center, and his team did a colonoscopy on the patient, which revealed an abundance of worms and no signs of ulcerative colitis.
When the patient suffered a flare-up of his disease in 2008, a colonoscopy showed fewer worms and typical signs of ulcerative colitis.
When he ingested more eggs, a third colonoscopy showed the colitis was once again in remission.
The study was published in this month's Science Translational Medicine.
Why worms might work
To figure out why the worms seemed to be having this beneficial effect, Loke and his colleagues took a close look at the patient's immune system after he ingested the worm eggs. After ingestion, he had an abundance of cells that produce a protein called interleukin-22, which is important in healing the mucosal lining of the intestines.
"Our main conclusion is that the worms were able to restore mucus production in his gut," Loke says, adding that the mucus lining protects the intestines from harmful bacteria.
But others are not so convinced.
"The impact of mucus alone is not a scientific explanation for the possible improvement attributed to the worms," says Dr. Stephen Hanauer, a member of the board of trustees of the American College of Gastroenterology.
Charges of irresponsibility
Hanauer, chief of gastroenterology, hepatology and nutrition at the University of Chicago, warned against making too many conclusions from one man's positive experience with worms.
"We don't make medical recommendations based on a single case report," he says.
He says New York University was "irresponsible" for putting out a press release about the study, and criticized media outlets such as CNN for reporting on it.
"It's ridiculous and incredibly inappropriate," he says. "You're driving people to go on the internet and buy these worms, and these are potentially pathogenic organisms. These eggs can invade the systems of people who are immune suppressed and cause infections."
Loke says he and his team pointed out in the press release that the worms might hurt some people rather than help them.
"I agree no one should be trying to change their treatment" based on the paper's findings, Loke says.
The patient says he is also concerned others might try to copy him with potentially disastrous results, and so declined to explain exactly how he cleaned and embryonated the eggs.
He says he knows he took a risk by ingesting the eggs from a young girl in Thailand, but for him it was a better option than treatment with drugs that have potentially dangerous side effects, or the removal of his colon.
"Sometimes you really do have to take matters into your own hands," he says.
That is bizarre. Good luck though OP, sorry you got ****ed over by genetic lottery
wtf!
so if you have crohns? this prevents absorption of nutrients so bring in worms that will feed on nutrients too????
female logic brah
[QUOTE=tludwig1987;866549351]wtf!
so if you have crohns? this prevents absorption of nutrients so bring in worms that will feed on nutrients too????
female logic brah[/QUOTE]
female level of reading comprehension there brah.
[QUOTE=MRaeger;866536141]Solid progress![/QUOTE]
Cheers!
I will prob do a proper update again on Wed and do a weigh in. Been pretty steady sailing so far tbh.
[QUOTE=bonkerzzz;866541781]Interesting experiment, I hope it works out for you. Crohns is a horrible condition, and I guess a lot of people don't realise how good it would feel to get rid of it without suffering from it.
The immune surpressant tabs sound a lot like what i'm on for my arthritis. It's called Methotrexate. Hate the idea of taking them, but if after a couple of years my symptoms subside, I will be taken off them and hope my symptoms don't return.[/QUOTE]
I just read up on it. Looks similar to azathioprine.
Assuming your condition is caused by a immune response; you should research worms with your condition as a possible plan B to the drug (or plan A of you prefer!).
Good luck with it all anyway.
[QUOTE=****lllSVVAG;866548751]That is bizarre. Good luck though OP, sorry you got ****ed over by genetic lottery[/QUOTE]
Ta.
To think I have it mild compared to a lot of people, I really feel for the more severe cases.
[QUOTE=tludwig1987;866549351]wtf!
so if you have crohns? this prevents absorption of nutrients so bring in worms that will feed on nutrients too????
female logic brah[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of tape worm. I'm using hookworm. They just take a small amount of blood.
Re-read the thread. All the answers are there for you.
[QUOTE=Lailoken;866561651]female level of reading comprehension there brah.[/QUOTE]
lol
[QUOTE=tludwig1987;866549351]wtf!
so if you have crohns? this prevents absorption of nutrients so bring in worms that will feed on nutrients too????
female logic brah[/QUOTE]
strong dumbing down complex scenarios.