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how is it that you can carbup with a lot of carbs for 24-48 hours without problems with fat gain etc. but when you switch from keto to another diet its best to reintroduce carbs slowly?
from what im reading, if you switch from keto to a non-keto diet even if you're still in a deficit it is best to reintroduce carbs slowly to limit fat regain. how come your body doesnt go crazy and store carbs as fat on carbup days?
also should you still carb up if you didnt lift as hard that week or two?
I'm not exactly sure if there's any actual evidence that you need to introduce carbs slowly. However, a carb-up isn't the same thing as eating carbs every day.
The purpose of a carb up is to replenish muscle glycogen. You're not actually converting your body back to using carbs as it's fuel source. I'm sure someone can chime in with a better answer.
also add that a carb up happens after a GOOD DEPLETION WORK OUT..~~
[QUOTE=IMAPACKERFAN;189323311]converting your body back to using carbs as it's fuel source. [/QUOTE]
This would be extremely difficult to accomplish in a pure sense. (ie, only burn carbs with no possibility of fat oxidation)
[QUOTE=Phosphate bond;189331671]This would be extremely difficult to accomplish in a pure sense. (ie, only burn carbs with no possibility of fat oxidation)[/QUOTE]
yeh of course, that's why it's encouraged we do a CLEAN carb up just to replenish glycogen....and yet to stick within our cal intake...it's pretty surre you shoudl'nt gain any fat..if any...minimal fat gain
[QUOTE=DefyingGenes;189336581]yeh of course, that's why it's encouraged we do a CLEAN carb up just to replenish glycogen....and yet to stick within our cal intake...it's pretty surre you shoudl'nt gain any fat..if any...minimal fat gain[/QUOTE]
Yeah I am not disagreeing.
The only people I can think of who can't oxidize fat (for all practical purposes) are very insulin resistant people.
These people have blocked beta oxidation and are lipogenic instead. Because of this they burn primarily glucose (or glucose converted from amino acids).
However, I doubt anyone in this forum who is exercising would have that scenario. Therefore these carbs up will likely have no impact on the ability for continued fat oxidation.
[QUOTE=Phosphate bond;189345621]Yeah I am not disagreeing.
The only people I can think of who can't oxidize fat (for all practical purposes) are very insulin resistant people.
These people have blocked beta oxidation and are lipogenic instead. Because of this they burn primarily glucose (or glucose converted from amino acids).
However, I doubt anyone in this forum who is exercising would have that scenario. Therefore these carbs up will likely have no impact on the ability for continued fat oxidation.[/QUOTE]
true,
good respone man...i wish i was as educated as u
this depletion workout that i have read in the forums just doesnt fit well with my lifting schedule. I will probably never do anything for a major body part more then 15 reps. with the lack of carbs all week and the heavy lifting, your body needs that carb day even without some carb depletion workout.
[QUOTE=vgbblife;189355941]this depletion workout that i have read in the forums just doesnt fit well with my lifting schedule. I will probably never do anything for a major body part more then 15 reps. with the lack of carbs all week and the heavy lifting, your body needs that carb day even without some carb depletion workout.[/QUOTE]
In my experience you get the most drastic body composition changes following the depletion workout. Like being so depleted that you can't see your abs to waking up Saturday morning with a stunning 6 pack. Doing the depletion workout is all about mental toughness.
sounds kinda cool that you put it that way. I'll look into it.
In response to the original poster.
I am new to keto, but I have a pretty good science back ground. i have been trying to understand it myself from the science. From my understanding the refeeds are just an attempt to replace the glycogen that has been depleted. From my understanding of how the body metabolizes fat, I am going to make a few possible scientific reasons why carb intake is suggested to be introduced slowly. Basically, producing ketones is the last resort method for the body to deal with fat. The fatty acids in the blood either from ingestion or stored in fat first go through lipolysis and beta oxidation to produce energy. If more fatty acids are available than the body can use then the body would store the fatty acids in fat cells. However, the enzyme that is a catalyst to store the fatty acids is controled by insulin. So if the body can not store the fatty acids then it begins producing ketones. The ketones can be used for energy. When the body produces more ketones then it can use then it begins to expell them in the urine. So basically you piss away the excess fat the body is not using.
So when you intake carbohydrates when in ketosis, the body stops producing keytones and starts storing the fatty acids as fat because insulin is present to start the process. However, since your muscle and liver glycogen have been depleted I think this would be the higest priorty for the body to address when carbs are added first. I guess when going on maintenice you want to try and minimize the amount of fatty acids (indirecrtly measured by ketones) in your system when the insulin levels begin to rise to minimizes the storage of fatty acids in fat cells.
maybe that makes sense...that is how I have come to apply the science to under stand the common keto diet.
[QUOTE=scottjo;189426621]In response to the original poster.
I am new to keto, but I have a pretty good science back ground. i have been trying to understand it myself from the science. From my understanding the refeeds are just an attempt to replace the glycogen that has been depleted. From my understanding of how the body metabolizes fat, I am going to make a few possible scientific reasons why carb intake is suggested to be introduced slowly. Basically, producing ketones is the last resort method for the body to deal with fat. The fatty acids in the blood either from ingestion or stored in fat first go through lipolysis and beta oxidation to produce energy. If more fatty acids are available than the body can use then the body would store the fatty acids in fat cells. However, the enzyme that is a catalyst to store the fatty acids is controled by insulin. So if the body can not store the fatty acids then it begins producing ketones. The ketones can be used for energy. When the body produces more ketones then it can use then it begins to expell them in the urine. So basically you piss away the excess fat the body is not using.
So when you intake carbohydrates when in ketosis, the body stops producing keytones and starts storing the fatty acids as fat because insulin is present to start the process. However, since your muscle and liver glycogen have been depleted I think this would be the higest priorty for the body to address when carbs are added first. I guess when going on maintenice you want to try and minimize the amount of fatty acids (indirecrtly measured by ketones) in your system when the insulin levels begin to rise to minimizes the storage of fatty acids in fat cells.
maybe that makes sense...that is how I have come to apply the science to under stand the common keto diet.[/QUOTE]
wow thank u!
ok so during the carbup u dont store the carbs as fat because they are going toward restoring glycogen first?
if u didnt workout as hard over a 1-2wk period should u still carb up then?
[QUOTE=artemis123;189471411]wow thank u!
ok so during the carbup u dont store the carbs as fat because they are going toward restoring glycogen first?
if u didnt workout as hard over a 1-2wk period should u still carb up then?[/QUOTE]
if you take in too many carbs, even if your muscles are depleted, you risk spilling over into liver glycogen, in whcih case the carbs will be stored as fat
if you didn't work as hard, wait 10-12 days insted of 7
[QUOTE=jaim91;189472481]if you take in too many carbs, even if your muscles are depleted, you risk spilling over into liver glycogen, in whcih case the carbs will be stored as fat
if you didn't work as hard, wait 10-12 days insted of 7[/QUOTE]
what % of carbs is ideal? should i stay on the lower side if i tend to get fat with carbs really easily? lol
ok, will wait 12 days before carbing up. if there is ever a week where i dont lift weights (will be away for work for a week, maybe 2 and will be in the middle of nowhere) do i still carb up after those 2 weeks?
[QUOTE=artemis123;189473291]what % of carbs is ideal? should i stay on the lower side if i tend to get fat with carbs really easily? lol
ok, will wait 12 days before carbing up. if there is ever a week where i dont lift weights (will be away for work for a week, maybe 2 and will be in the middle of nowhere) do i still carb up after those 2 weeks?[/QUOTE]
stick with 50-65% carbs...but only eat no more than 10% above maintenance calories on your carb up day.
yes, carb up after 2 weeks...if you're on a low carb, your bodi will have naturally depleted by them.