Bronzie's 4 week Epi-Tren Cycle Log

[b]Background[/b]
For those who care...I am 31 and I have been in the gym for 16 years. Although I've definitely made changes to my physique since I started lifting, I am definitely not satisfied with the results I have obtained from the effort I have put forth in the gym, and the nutrition and supplement routine that I follow 24/7. I am an extremely hard gainer that also has a hard time getting shredded. So I guess you'd say I have the best of both worlds. (ahhh...sarcasm!)

Well, here it is, the faithful moment where everything will change. I am about to jump on a PH cycle for the first time in 5 years. Previous cycles yielded minimal gains, say 5lbs kept for each cycle (x 4 cycles).

That was then though and this is now. I know a lot more now than I did then about training, nutrient optimization and nutrient timing. So I'll put that applied knowledge to work with a decent PH cycle and see what unfolds!

[b]Blood Tests[/b]
Very important element. I've had my pre-cycle labs with the family doc. (Liver, Kidney, Basic Met., Free & Total Test, Thyroid, Lipid) and all is fine, with exception of high CREA/BUN which has always been elevated for me on every blood test I have ever had probably due to high protein intake and or creatine use. I have the go ahead from the dock. I will have my mid cycle labs and post cycle labs done as well and will post any notable figures in this log.

I think this a decent/safe/worth the risk cycle. I will be starting with the minimum dose of 2 caps/day for the first week and add 1 cap if needed. Hopefully this cycle will help me punch through to the next level!

In addition to my normal supplement regimen, I will be taking the following.

[b]Epi-Tren 4 week cycle (get in, hit it hard, get out)[/b]

Pre-Cycle Prep (2 weeks)
---------------------------------------
Milk Thistle 300mg 2 x day
ALA 200mg 1 x day
Hawthorne Berry 500mg 2 x day
CoQ10 1oomg/day

On-Cycle
---------------------------------------
Epi-Tren 30/10 1 cap 2 x day (0-1 week)
Epi-Tren 30/10 1 cap 3 x day (1-4 week)
---------------------------------------
Milk Thistle 300mg 2 x day
ALA 200mg 1 x day
Hawthorne Berry 1gm 2 x day
CoQ10 100mg/day
Red Yeast Rice 2.4gm/day
Celery Seed Extract 150mg 2 x day
Saw Palmetto 300mg 2 x day
Taurine/Potassium (as needed for back pumps)

Post-Cycle (4 weeks)
---------------------------------------
All OTC PCT unless otherwise determined as necessary (clomid, HCG)
Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support
---------------------------------------
Milk Thistle 300mg 2 x day
ALA 200mg 1 x day
Hawthorne Berry 500mg 2 x day
CoQ10 100mg/day
Red Yeast Rice 2.4gm/day
Saw Palmetto 300mg 1 x day


[b]Starting Stats 04/29/09[/b]
6' 3"
215lb (in the morning, empty stomach)
10.5% bodyfat (caliper test)

Neck: 18.5
Chest: 46.5
Waist: 34.75
Bicep Left: 16.25
Bicep Right: 16
Thighs: 25.25
Calve Left: 16.5
Calve Right: 16.25
Fore Arms: 12.125

I will be logging daily and posting pics weekly. Before pics coming soon.

Well i'll bump ya if no one else will. Nicely thought out post. Good luck mate.

Im following along broseph.

[QUOTE=richarde19;324061271]Well i'll bump ya if no one else will. Nicely thought out post. Good luck mate.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the bump

Well, day 1-3 of the cycle were going great. But on day 4, I got hit with a nasty virus, hence the lack of postings. I will go ahead and report my first 3 days experience of the cycle as well as starting pics and then resume this thread when I can fu***n eat again.

[b]The first 3 days, (er I got sick) kicked serious as**![/b]
This stuff kick in fast. Strength up, weights are up, energy way-up. Good pumps, including back pumps after my leg day but that was to be expected. Feel fuller and look more vascular all day.

Day 3 -
Veins in forearms are crazy

Day 4 -
Got sick, can't keep anything down...postpone

[b]SPLIT[/b]
[b]Monday[\b] - Chest, Abs, Calves
[b]Tuesday[\b] - Back, Biceps
[b]Wednesday[\b] - Legs
[b]Thursday[\b] - Shoulders, Abs, Calves
[b]Friday[\b] - Biceps, Triceps, Forearms
[b]Saturday/Sunday off[\b]

Cardio 20 min in the am pre-breakfast 3 x week

After a 102 degree temp, retching for 24 hrs, and 4 days of not being able to eat, I am finally ready to get back on this cycle.


[b]Beginning Pics Taken 4/30/09[\b]


[b]Areas hoping to lay serious improvements to[/b]
CHEST fullness, size
Upper chest size
Inner thigh from knee up
Shoulder size and fullness
Medial delt width and thickness
Rear delt thickness
Quad depth, thickness, size
Calve size

Feel pretty good today. Again, I feel full and vascular, like I did the "first" first time I took it. Workout weights were compromised a bit due to lack of nutrition over the past 3 days. I will be reporting the heavy exercises of each day's workout

[b]Weight - 208.5lbs[/b] (weight down from 215lb last week after getting the "swine" flu from hell this last weekend)

[b]Workout[/b]
Chest, Abs, Calves

Chest - Incline Dumbell 65x12 / 75x10 / 85x7
(I have pushed up 100's for 4 or 5 reps before so I expect this to improve next week)

[QUOTE]
[b]Areas hoping to lay serious improvements to[/b]
CHEST fullness, size
Upper chest size
Inner thigh from knee up
Shoulder size and fullness
Medial delt width and thickness
Rear delt thickness
Quad depth, thickness, size
Calve size[/QUOTE]

I have also heard that Epi-Tren can react as a pretty good cutter, due to the high anabolic / low androgeneic ratio. In addition to the above, I hope to achieve some decent body re-comp as well. Reduce lower back fat, improve cuts in tricep heads, and increase definition in back overall.

The first 4 days on this stuff and the scale isn't budging yet but I am definitely getting good muscle fullness and good pumps.

[b]Overview[/b]
Started to feel warm, and good veins in the forearms are rolling out. I am still down in weight (209lb) from my starting weight before getting sick (215lb) so that sucks but I anticipate to start regaining a lot of that weight back very soon. I think most of the weight lost during the 3 days I wasn't eating was in the GI tract, water weight, and a bit of fat. I don't feel like I lost much or any muscle.

Abs are good and deep today. Belly fat is dry.

[b]Workout[/b]
Shoulders, Traps

Shoulders - Behind The Neck Smith Press
135x15 / 155x12 / 175x10f / 195x8f / 215 x 5f [i](f - failure set)[/i]

[b]Diet[/b]
Carbs = 262
Protein = 334
Fat = 38
Total Meals = 8
Total Calories = 2790

[b]Overview[/b]
Leg workout went great. Strength was pretty good today. I haven't felt that good on free squats in a long time. Back to straight-leg dead lifts next week for massive hams. I decided to avoid straight-leg tonight to avoid onset of initial cycle back pumps.

[b]Weight = 209lb[/b]


[b]Workout[/b]
Quads, Hams

Quads - Squats
135x20 / 225x12 / 315x7 / 315x6 - drop - 225 x 11

Hams - Lying Leg Curl
180 x 14 / 200 x 11 / 220 x 8 - drop - 150 x 11 - drop - 90 x 12

[b]Diet[/b]
Carbs = 283
Protein = 346
Fat = 40
Total Meals = 8
Total Calories = 2949

[b]Overview[/b]
Had to do a quick back workout today unfortunately due to schedule. I went lighter then usual but with high intensity. Starting to feel the "juice" flow through. My energy was high and I was feeling pretty good pumps. My weight is still down, so I am increasing calories slowly each day, a bit more carbs throughout the day. Still trying to keep fats to a minimum, and all good sources.
[b]Big Time update! - Starting to see veins spider in my inner quad. Never had veins in legs before![/b]

[b]Weight = 209.5lb[/b]


[b]Workout[/b]
Back

Reverse Grip Pull-Down
90 x 15 / 135 x 13 / 160 x 12f / 180 x 10f
(again - lighter weight than usual. looking forward to getting hard and heavy on the next back workout. gotta make each workout count. only have 4 workouts respectively per body part while on cycle)

[b]Diet[/b]
Carbs = 290
Protein = 376
Fat = 44
Total Meals = 8
Total Calories = 3153

*NOTE* - I have since stopped this cycle again and am now posting after the fact, so the next few posts were posted on incorrect dates.

Feeling pretty good. Looked very dry this morning. Good cuts and definition. Decided to take progress pics. (See pics posted below)

[b]Weight = 210lb[/b] (my scale weighs in .5 lb incraments)


[b]Workout[/b]
Bicep, Tricep, Forearm, Calves

Heaviest Exercise of the Day: Straight Bar Curls
Best Set 4/10/09: 115 x 8
Today 05/09/09: 45 x 25 / 95 x 12 / 115 x 10 / 135 x 8f -drop 115 x 7 -drop 95 x 10


[b]Diet[/b]
Carbs = 304 (medium carb day)
Protein = 353
Fat = 42
Total Meals = 7
Total Calories = 3133

5/10/09

A.M - Woke up with mild headache. Feels like a light hangover. Energy is a bit lagging. Not feeling motivated. Still look good. Dry, no noticeable changes though. No gym today - off day so key focus is to rest up and spend time with the mom's.

P.M. - Excruciating headache has developed. Also experiencing mild nausea, and low appetite. Overall energy level is still ok, but overall I don't feel good Crap! These are classic High Blood Pressure symptoms. Blood pressure by wrist cuff is 134/72. Doesn't appear to be high. Hmmm. Could it be reaction to T kicking in? I'm pounding the water and doubled my does of NAC today.

LATE P.M - Still have this f***in headache. Feels like a grade A hangover. If I don't feel better by tomorrow morning I'm gonna stop the cycle again and get my blood drawn ASAP.

[b]Weight = 210lb[/b] (my scale weighs in .5 lb increments)

[b]Workout[/b]
No Workout - Off

[b]Diet[/b]
Carbs = 129 (low carb day - no workout)
Protein = 370
Fat = 60
Total Meals = 8
Total Calories = 2536

05/11/09

A.M - Woke up with headache and extremely tired. Not even the morning coffee would shake the urge to go back to bed. Still nauseated and I have no appetite.

Blood pressure by wrist cuff: average 139/64 Crap! Systolic is too high for my liking, despite taking Hawthorne Berry and NAC for entire cycle. (Should mention here that I stopped taking Red Yeast Rice 2 days ago as it is common for people to have side effects similar to those which I was experiencing.)

[b]ARRRGGGHHH! Decided once again to go off cycle and to get blood drawn. I'm frustrated as hell but my health comes first.[/b]

No Lift Today. Barely have the energy to lift a f'n finger. Waiting for blood results.

I just got my blood results back that were drawn on 05/11/09 after being on this cycle for only 5 days. (pre-post-cycle results below)

Uhh, am I mistaken in the assumption that your testosterone is actually supposed to go up during the first week of a cycle? On the contrary, my test [b]PLUMMETED[/b] after only 5 days and I was experiencing TOTAL SHUTDOWN. In addition, my liver values doubled, good cholesterol went down, bad cholesterol went up, among other things. The only value that improved was the BUN/CREAT ratio which could indicate a higher level of protein synthesis, better Nitric Oxide balance, and protein retention, or it could also be an indicator of rapid muscle loss prior to the test.

[b]These results are obviously not what I had hoped for out of this cycle [/b]. It is apparent by these numbers that the Epi-Tren compound definitely does not work for me. I have known plenty of guys who have had great results on this cycle though. Take this personal account for what it's worth. Personally, I am not willing to risk my health any further for any gains and hence I have decided to discontinued the cycle and am now focusing efforts on recovery.

If any of you have any advice, similar stories, or potential insight please let me know.

Here are the blood test results pre and post cycle.

[size=+2]Pre Cycle Values - 04/22/09[/size]

[b]TESTOSTERONE[/b]
Total Testosterone 321
Free Testosterone 52.6
% Free Testosterone 1.64

[b]CHOLESTEROL[/b]
HDL 57 (normal >=40)
LDL 57 (optimal <100)

[b]LIVER[/b]
AST 39 (normal 10-40)
ALT 39 (normal 9-50)

[b]TSH (Thyroid - metabolic indicator)[/b]
3.06 (.4-4.5)

[b]WBC/RBC/HEMATOCRIT (indicator of excess in blood and possible stroke etc.)[/b]
WBC 3.7 (normal 10-40)
RBC 4.77 (normal 9-50)
HEM 46.3 (norm 40-54)

[b]BUN/CREAT RATIO (kidney function)[/b]
27.7 (normal 6-22)
[hr]

[size=+2]Post-Cycle Values - 05/11/09[/size] (cycle ended prematurely)

[b]TESTOSTERONE[/b]
Total Testosterone 16 [color=red](- 305)[/color]
Free Testosterone 2.4 [color=red](- 50.2)[/color]
% Free Testosterone 1.52 [color=red](-.12)[/color]

[b]CHOLESTEROL[/b]
HDL 22 (normal >=40) [color=red](- 35)[/color]
LDL 75 (optimal <100) [color=red](+ 18)[/color]

[b]LIVER[/b]
AST 60 (normal 10-40) [color=red](+ 21)[/color]
ALT 95 (normal 9-50) [color=red](+ 56)[/color]

[b]TSH (Thyroid - metabolic indicator)[/b]
2.06 (.4-4.5) [color=red](- 1)[/color]

[b]WBC/RBC/HEMATOCRIT (indicator of excess in blood and possible stroke etc.)[/b]
WBC 6.9 (normal 10-40) [color=red](+ 3.2)[/color] <-indicates infection/defense in organ tissue
RBC 5.21 (normal 9-50) [color=red](+ .44)[/color]
HEM 46.3 (norm 40-54) [color=red](+ 49.2)[/color]

[b]BUN/CREAT RATIO (kidney function)[/b]
18.1 (normal 6-22) [color=red](-18.1)[/color]

[QUOTE=bronzemonster;332516381]I just got my blood results back that were drawn on 05/11/09 after being on this cycle for only 5 days. (pre-post-cycle results below)

Uhh, am I mistaken in the assumption that your testosterone is actually supposed to go up during the first week of a cycle? On the contrary, my test [b]PLUMMETED[/b] after only 5 days and I was experiencing TOTAL SHUTDOWN. In addition, my liver values doubled, good cholesterol went down, bad cholesterol went up, among other things. The only value that improved was the BUN/CREAT ratio which could indicate a higher level of protein synthesis, better Nitric Oxide balance, and protein retention, or it could also be an indicator of rapid muscle loss prior to the test.

[b]These results are obviously not what I had hoped for out of this cycle [/b]. It is apparent by these numbers that the Epi-Tren compound definitely does not work for me. I have known plenty of guys who have had great results on this cycle though. Take this personal account for what it's worth. Personally, I am not willing to risk my health any further for any gains and hence I have decided to discontinued the cycle and am now focusing efforts on recovery.

If any of you have any advice, similar stories, or potential insight please let me know.

Here are the blood test results pre and post cycle.

[size=+2]Pre Cycle Values - 04/22/09[/size]

[b]TESTOSTERONE[/b]
Total Testosterone 321
Free Testosterone 52.6
% Free Testosterone 1.64

[b]CHOLESTEROL[/b]
HDL 57 (normal >=40)
LDL 57 (optimal <100)

[b]LIVER[/b]
AST 39 (normal 10-40)
ALT 39 (normal 9-50)

[b]TSH (Thyroid - metabolic indicator)[/b]
3.06 (.4-4.5)

[b]WBC/RBC/HEMATOCRIT (indicator of excess in blood and possible stroke etc.)[/b]
WBC 3.7 (normal 10-40)
RBC 4.77 (normal 9-50)
HEM 46.3 (norm 40-54)

[b]BUN/CREAT RATIO (kidney function)[/b]
27.7 (normal 6-22)
[hr]

[size=+2]Post-Cycle Values - 05/11/09[/size] (cycle ended prematurely)

[b]TESTOSTERONE[/b]
Total Testosterone 16 [color=red](- 305)[/color]
Free Testosterone 2.4 [color=red](- 50.2)[/color]
% Free Testosterone 1.52 [color=red](-.12)[/color]

[b]CHOLESTEROL[/b]
HDL 22 (normal >=40) [color=red](- 35)[/color]
LDL 75 (optimal <100) [color=red](+ 18)[/color]

[b]LIVER[/b]
AST 60 (normal 10-40) [color=red](+ 21)[/color]
ALT 95 (normal 9-50) [color=red](+ 56)[/color]

[b]TSH (Thyroid - metabolic indicator)[/b]
2.06 (.4-4.5) [color=red](- 1)[/color]

[b]WBC/RBC/HEMATOCRIT (indicator of excess in blood and possible stroke etc.)[/b]
WBC 6.9 (normal 10-40) [color=red](+ 3.2)[/color] <-indicates infection/defense in organ tissue
RBC 5.21 (normal 9-50) [color=red](+ .44)[/color]
HEM 46.3 (norm 40-54) [color=red](+ 49.2)[/color]

[b]BUN/CREAT RATIO (kidney function)[/b]
18.1 (normal 6-22) [color=red](-18.1)[/color][/QUOTE]

I am sorry you had such a bad experience with the Epi-tren cycle. I wanted to share with you that I also had the same results. After I took the cycle i wanted to see just how screwed up my body was from the Epi-tren. I stopped because towards the end of the third week i started getting kidney/liver pains. I can tell you the pros first which is what people usually see. I gained about 15 lbs. And i have been off the cycle for about a week and half now It was a very grueling cycle. We must remember it is a replacement to a test shot huh? ok now in order for your body to turn this pill into a test that your body can use it needs to run through the liver, after all the test you make is a byproduct of whats going on in the liver, this is why it is recommended to not be taken for more than 4 weeks, it is HARSH on the liver. Either way, your body sees that there is something in your body it can use as test so it stops making test, the tests you did checked to see what test your body is making, it will not see the test your liver is making from these pills, it is not the same composition as the natural test you tested for. I made sure not to drink alcohol while on this cycle and a mix of that and the fact that i am younger may be a reason why your liver tests post cycle are higher. I am 23.
My gp is now concerned with my results and wants to run tests for me liver to see if i did any permanent damage. Here is what i heard when i was younger (you cant look good and feel good at the same time)... So these pills could have screwed everything up in the body but i gained some weight. It doesnt make it right but now i can say i tried it.
Oh one more thing, i did not test for cholesterol or thyroid function, but we are on the same page with everything else i am sure it affected me the same way. How are you doing now? how long did it take you to recover?