I pose this question. Are military presses behind the neck bad for you? Are they destroyers of the rotator cuff? Or is it all a myth? Game on.
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I pose this question. Are military presses behind the neck bad for you? Are they destroyers of the rotator cuff? Or is it all a myth? Game on.
I like them. I felt my RC start to go a year or two back and have been working on stretching/strengthening it ever since. I love BTN push presses, and i think the little bounce at the beginning takes most of the pressure off the RC.
I do them (behind the neck military press) as well and have never had any problems. The key is too properly warm up, don't go too heavy and don't go below parallel (don't rest bar on your neck/shoulders). I usually don't go above 185lbs-205lbs on them...
While behind the head minimizes upper chest involvement in the exercise, if you don't have adequate flexibility, bring the bar too low, or use excessive weight, it does cause more stress on the joint and RC and increases the risk of injury. While it may isloate the shoulders a bit more, the net benefit and risk vs. reward ratio may not be favorable.
So it's not a myth that they CAN be bad. But if they WILL be really depends upon the person and application. Very few things are inherently bad or good. and remember that stressors add up over time. What's good today may not lead to goodness at some point later in life.
Olympic lifters do them without any problem.
But they can do full squat snatches, overhead squats etc. Can you?
They have mutant shoulder flexibility, without compromising stability under a heavy load.
They use machines as coat hangers.
If you have being doing a lot of free weight work including full squat snatches and overhead squats, or if you have really mobile shoulders, should be no problem.
I used to do them, and Bradford presses(behind, in front, behind, in front etc) with no problems. But then they started to irritate my injured shoulders, so I stick to military press.
If you have been doing a most of your work with machines, your presses seated, etc, forget it. You might find it hard to scratch the back of your head, much less do BTN presses in good form.
It really varies from person to person. I can do them without any discomfort, with a very wide grip, although I usually do DBs anyways.
Its not a myth as much as its just not an absolute truth. While it feels fine for me, I have workout partners who cringe at the very thought.
Its funny. All of the responses so far are basically stating that behind the head is not a major issue but can cause damage if not done correctly. I myself usually throw in some behind the neck presses but only on an every third shoulder workout basis. I also go just heavy enough to feel the weight but not heavy enough that I feel pain or like my shoulders are going to pop out. Its usually about 70% of what I would do for presses in front. But, when I do these at the gym I usually have someone come up and tell me that I should not do these and im going to injure myself. Its almost always someone that is half my size and lifts the weights of a small child. I usually say thanks for the advice and continue my workout. Its amazing how you get advice from certain people.
IMO shoulders are at the highest risks of any injuries from any exercises compared to any other muscle because you're building around your joints. I just recently started doing this workout for shoulders and damn I love the burn I get and that's cuz I just go lighter than I would with military presses and rep out. Its recommended to always go light on shoulder exercises to reduce risk of injuries. Any workout you do can be harmful if not done right.
[QUOTE=brighamw;297222831]don't go too heavy and don't go below parallel (don't rest bar on your neck/shoulders)[/QUOTE]
This sounds similar to the below parallel squat myth. You CAN and should go below parallel if you have the flexibility and proper technique.
Many olympic athletes do behind the neck jerks and presses and they have strong and healthy joints. So why can't anyone else?
[QUOTE=PowerTricks;297272651]This sounds similar to the below parallel squat myth. You CAN and should go below parallel if you have the flexibility and proper technique.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Ass to the grass is kinder to the knees. But you have to have hamstrings that are not too tight. Otherwise the pull of the hams on your pelvis forces your tail to tuck in and forces the low back to round. Herniated disk a distinct possibility, and years of pain. So stretch those hammies(but not before you lift!).
[QUOTE=PowerTricks;297272651]Many olympic athletes do behind the neck jerks and presses and they have strong and healthy joints. So why can't anyone else?[/QUOTE]
Agreed. They could if they trained like Olympic lifters!
The Olympic lifters all do the behind the neck jerks and presses. They also do a wonderful snatch balance exercise:
Starting with the bar on the traps, they dip and drive the bar up behind the neck while dropping into a full squat. That is one of the reasons for their mutant shoulder flexibility while still maintaining stability under a heavy bar.
The problem with most bodybuilders, and most gym rats, is that they do so much on machines, don't use a full range of motion, sit down to lift, etc. And they certainly don't do the wonderful moves that make olympic lifters' shoulders so strong and flexible.
Their presses are usually seated, so they are really very steep incline presses, their shoulders are too damn tight, and hunched forward.
The correct technique for the military press:
Clean the weight before each set of presses except when you are trying to go really heavy. That actually helps you set your back, and primes your glutes and abs for being tight and stable under the press.
As the bar passes your forehead, thrust head forward so the bar finishes like a press behind the neck. The plane of the arms is now behind the ears. No lean back at all. That is very kind to your shoulders, and arguably gives you the benefits of the PBN without the dangers.
Bradford presses are done alternately in front and behind the head. They are absolutely tops if you can do them without irritating the shoulders. I found I could do more reps this style than just military presses.
The real trouble with the PBN for most people is that the start of the lift forces your humerus into an extreme externally rotated position, even before you do the lift. Anyone who has practiced jujitsu is familiar with the ease with which you can injure the shoulder of even the biggest guy if you get his arm in the same position!
Some people get around shoulder tightness by stopping the bar behind the head at the level of say the top of the ears.
I used to be able to press off the traps, but shoulder issues make me stick to conventional military style.
Not getting any younger, damn.
Also another important point is to go as low as you can only while using proper technique. If you can only go parallel while keeping proper technique than that's as low as the person should go. Even though there are stretches that people can do to improve positioning and technique, actually performing and practicing the lifts also builds flexibility. If I spent more time applying this stuff to my training I could progress a lot faster but my damn injury is keeping me from progressing to heavier weights. Anyways getting back on topic, [URL="http://www.activerelease.com/what_patients.asp"]Active Release Technique[/URL] can help a lot with the muscle tightness and doing [URL="http://stronglifts.com/shoulders-dislocations/"]shoulder dislocations[/URL] can help with flexibility for behind the neck presses, strict presses, jerks, overhead squats, and snatches.
Up until about 2 years ago they were my staple shoulder exercise I love them. I'm just currently focussing more on DB presses right now.
I talked to a pro bodybuilder who used to do them. He said that he did em once, tried maxing out and now he has a permanent shoulder injury. I'd stick to regular presses and if you have to do them then definetely don't go to failure.
Looks like the verdict is go ahead and do them as long as you keep the weight lower than you would when you are lifting heavy or maxing out.
I never heard of olympic lifters doing behind the neck presses.I think what you are reffering to is the behind the neck jerk.There is alot of functional differences between these two exercises though.
1The jerk is a olympic lift designed for power.
2The amount of weight used is usually less then for presses.Olympic lifters train for power not for strength
3For the jerk you use power generated from the hips and legs to drive the bar up
4For the presses you use only the upper body muscles.Mainly deltiod and triceps.
If I must do behind the neck presses, I use the Smith Machine. I'm not going to count on my stabilizing muscles to balance that weight at that weird angle...
your scapula is in a compromising position.If you do not have a high degree of flexibility it could enter the impingement zone.
whats wrong with regular militiary presses?
i think it depends on the person. i cannot do a behind the neck press without my shoulder popping, my arms just do not move that far back...but i see a lot of people looking like they are doing them with ease
don't do them you will get hurt. is it natural to lift in that position, no.
Strong bump.
If flexibility permits and you have solid technique then they are fine.