My logic on getting to 8% bf

Ok so I'm currently 200 lbs on the nose, and 15% bf. I want to get to 8% by April. Here is my plan to do so... Please feel free to correct me if you see that my logic is flawed. Ok so 200(lbs.)x.15(%bf) is 30(lbs. of fat), so my lbm is 170 lbs. 170 x .08 is 13.6... So according to my fourth grade math and ASSUMING I lose no muscle at all, I will be at 8% bf at about 183 lbs. So I set myself up on a 14 week cut in which I will lose 17 lbs at the appropriate rate and I will post my progress every week. I'm starting out at 2200 calories and will monitor and adjust accordingly. Is this sound? I will post a picture of myself later this evening so you guys can see what I'm working with. Thanks bros!

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013710403]Ok so I'm currently 200 lbs on the nose, and 15% bf. I want to get to 8% by April. Here is my plan to do so... Please feel free to correct me if you see that my logic is flawed. Ok so 200(lbs.)x.15(%bf) is 30(lbs. of fat), so my lbm is 170 lbs. 170 x .08 is 13.6... So according to my fourth grade math and ASSUMING I lose no muscle at all, I will be at 8% bf at about 183 lbs. So I set myself up on a 14 week cut in which I will lose 17 lbs at the appropriate rate and I will post my progress every week. I'm starting out at 2200 calories and will monitor and adjust accordingly. Is this sound? I will post a picture of myself later this evening so you guys can see what I'm working with. Thanks bros![/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that once you hit LOW bodyfat numbers... that 1 to 1.5 pounds a week doesn't fit the bill anymore. At the end of my cut last year I leveled off in mid-may and it took me a month and a half to lose like 4 pounds.

[QUOTE=n0useforaname;1013717383]Keep in mind that once you hit LOW bodyfat numbers... that 1 to 1.5 pounds a week doesn't fit the bill anymore. At the end of my cut last year I leveled off in mid-may and it took me a month and a half to lose like 4 pounds.[/QUOTE]

Right, thanks for reminding me of that. I know it's much easier to put it on paper than to actually do it. So what do you recommend I do when it starts to slow down? I'm thinking about doing a short clean bulk midway through my cut just to "re-establish my metabolism", if that makes sense, then keep going to my target weight. I've had good luck with that in the past. I figure if I monitor the scale and maintain my strength I can do it. Thanks for the reply!

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013725253]Right, thanks for reminding me of that. I know it's much easier to put it on paper than to actually do it. So what do you recommend I do when it starts to slow down? I'm thinking about doing a short clean bulk midway through my cut just to "re-establish my metabolism", if that makes sense, then keep going to my target weight. I've had good luck with that in the past. I figure if I monitor the scale and maintain my strength I can do it. Thanks for the reply![/QUOTE]

dont clean bulk, just get refeeds into the mix once you reach 12% start doing them weekly or whenever you feel like one.

[QUOTE=kmankolb;1013726613]dont clean bulk, just get refeeds into the mix once you reach 12% start doing them weekly or whenever you feel like one.[/QUOTE]
Ok so for example every Sunday I could eat about 3000 cals instead of 2200?

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013710403]Ok so I'm currently 200 lbs on the nose, and 15% bf. I want to get to 8% by April. Here is my plan to do so... Please feel free to correct me if you see that my logic is flawed. Ok so 200(lbs.)x.15(%bf) is 30(lbs. of fat), so my lbm is 170 lbs. 170 x .08 is 13.6... So according to my fourth grade math and ASSUMING I lose no muscle at all, I will be at 8% bf at about 183 lbs. So I set myself up on a 14 week cut in which I will lose 17 lbs at the appropriate rate and I will post my progress every week. I'm starting out at 2200 calories and will monitor and adjust accordingly. Is this sound? I will post a picture of myself later this evening so you guys can see what I'm working with. Thanks bros![/QUOTE]

The math is off a bit but not by much to make a big difference. As you lose the fat, my understanding is you will lose LBM regardless (referring to [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=151267223&p=1013545723&viewfull=1#post1013545723[/url]). Assuming a 80% fat loss, 20% LBM loss:

Current Weight (lbs) 200
Current BF 15%
Target BF 8%
Percent Fat Loss Anticipated 80.00%



Fat Loss 15.56
LBM Loss 3.89
[B]Weight at target BF% (lb) 180.56[/B]

Here is the deal... and trust me on this one. There is NO magic diet, refeed, eating pattern, etc.. that will re-boost your metabolism or make you lose bodyfat faster.. it doesn't exist. People who say it does are full of crap. If you are eating at a deficit and you stall.... just keep eating at a deficit and wait it out.. it can sometimes take up to 3-4 weeks, but WAIT IT OUT. If you could ramp metabolism, refeed, etc.. to get ripped, everyone would be ripped... but they are not. So stick with your current goals of 1.5 pounds week... keep busting ass, and get results when they come.

[QUOTE=n0useforaname;1013749743]Here is the deal... and trust me on this one. There is NO magic diet, refeed, eating pattern, etc.. that will re-boost your metabolism or make you lose bodyfat faster.. it doesn't exist. People who say it does are full of crap. If you are eating at a deficit and you stall.... just keep eating at a deficit and wait it out.. it can sometimes take up to 3-4 weeks, but WAIT IT OUT. If you could ramp metabolism, refeed, etc.. to get ripped, everyone would be ripped... but they are not. So stick with your current goals of 1.5 pounds week... keep busting ass, and get results when they come.[/QUOTE]
Right on man, thanks for the replies I'm gonna keep posting progress pics so I guess we'll see what happens.

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013756983]Right on man, thanks for the replies I'm gonna keep posting progress pics so I guess we'll see what happens.[/QUOTE]

Good deal. Stick with it and in time it will pay off.

Ok guys, I literally haven't made enough post since 2009 to post pics so i just uploaded it as my profile pic. I just took this pic about 1 hour ago. I look kinda stoned but im just tired from work lol

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013770613]Ok guys, I literally haven't made enough post since 2009 to post pics so i just uploaded it as my profile pic. I just took this pic about 1 hour ago. I look kinda stoned but im just tired from work lol[/QUOTE]
Hopefully it worked, sorry guys I'm kind of a caveman and am terrible with computers... Please take the time to check it out and critique or whatever. I know my chest is underdeveloped from lack of heavy chest exercises due to a shoulder injury.

Your profile pic is your most recent pic? If so, how did you arrive at 15% bodyfat? You look less than 15% imo.

avi looks below 15%

[QUOTE=n0useforaname;1013749743]Here is the deal... and trust me on this one. There is NO magic diet, refeed, eating pattern, etc.. that will re-boost your metabolism or make you lose bodyfat faster.. it doesn't exist. People who say it does are full of crap. If you are eating at a deficit and you stall.... just keep eating at a deficit and wait it out.. it can sometimes take up to 3-4 weeks, but WAIT IT OUT. If you could ramp metabolism, refeed, etc.. to get ripped, everyone would be ripped... but they are not. So stick with your current goals of 1.5 pounds week... keep busting ass, and get results when they come.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, that's not quite true. Look up leptin sensitivity. Clean refeeds are quite necessary, for optimal performance/muscle retention/metabolism.

By the way,OP, strong ratio of arm-to-torso development. I've got the opposite problem. My back/chest dwarf my arms hahahahaha. Workin' on it! Maybe we should swap routines so we can both balance out hahaha.

[QUOTE=EML84;1014052093]Sorry, that's not quite true. Look up leptin sensitivity. Clean refeeds are quite necessary, for optimal performance/muscle retention/metabolism.[/QUOTE]

Lyle McDonald has a 6 part series on his site about this which is a very good read. In this part - specifically of note:

[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-6.html[/url]
[quote]
When people reduce calories and lose fat, leptin levels drop, and this appears to be a major part of the overall adaptations to dieting in terms of metabolic rate, hunger, etc.

While leptin certainly isn’t the only hormone involved it appears to be one of the major ones not only having direct effects but also impacting how well or how poorly other hormones (such as CCK) work in the brain.

6. While studies have found that raising leptin in overweight individuals typically does little (for reasons related to either leptin resistance or insufficiency in the brain), preventing leptin from dropping during a diet (or raising it) appears to reverse many of adaptations that occur.
[/quote]

and

[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-hormones-of-bodyweight-regulation-leptin-part-the-last.html[/url]

[quote]
At this point, and this topic is discussed to some degree in nearly every book I’ve written at this point, interjecting high carbohydrate, high calorie refeeds of varying lengths (anywhere from 5 hours to 3 days) is (currently) the best way to raise leptin while dieting.

One of the interesting (and often missed points) is that, as dieters get leaner (and leptin drops more and more), refeeds need to become larger and/or more frequent. That is, rather than necessarily dieting harder as they get leaner, some people are actually doing better by ‘breaking their diet’ (with specific high-carb refeeds) more frequently.

I’d note again that leptin production is related primarily to carbohydrate intake in the short-term, high-fat refeeds aren’t the best way to raise leptin levels. I’d also note that single ‘cheat’ meals won’t impact on leptin levels significantly as leptin doesn’t really change on a meal to meal basis.
[/quote]

Yup. NCBI studies confirm the above facts again and again. But real world experience tells me this is true, too. A few articles from John Meadows six months ago, helped me to start using "Carb Nite" before I even knew I was using it. I'd do a more "paleo" approach six days a week, with one refeed for half a day on Saturday, low fat/high gi carbs.

Worked a charm. It's always been very hard for me to lose body fat. But that worked a charm! Carb cycling can be implemented once in low digit body fat. The problem is, I never reached low enough digits to warrant cycling. I had just reached 10 percent when stopping the cut. I was happy enough with things. But after I "cut" again some time from now, I'll move from the first approach to cycling once I'm at 10 again. Hope it works! Good posting!

when you start to plateau you coudl do a few things:
Increase cardio
Less calories
Introduce A protein only fast day
etc

Solid plan though op.

Man thanks everyone for your input! So you guys really think I'm lower than 15? Sweet! Really interesting read jimsmith... Good little thread we got goin here.

[QUOTE=EML84;1014065823]Yup. NCBI studies confirm the above facts again and again. But real world experience tells me this is true, too. A few articles from John Meadows six months ago, helped me to start using "Carb Nite" before I even knew I was using it. I'd do a more "paleo" approach six days a week, with one refeed for half a day on Saturday, low fat/high gi carbs.

Worked a charm. It's always been very hard for me to lose body fat. But that worked a charm! Carb cycling can be implemented once in low digit body fat. The problem is, I never reached low enough digits to warrant cycling. I had just reached 10 percent when stopping the cut. I was happy enough with things. But after I "cut" again some time from now, I'll move from the first approach to cycling once I'm at 10 again. Hope it works! Good posting![/QUOTE]
Interesting, that sounds like a good plan and I bet you'll be much leaner next time...

[QUOTE=EML84;1014052093]Sorry, that's not quite true. Look up leptin sensitivity. Clean refeeds are quite necessary, for optimal performance/muscle retention/metabolism.[/QUOTE]

I'll just add that, re-feeds are NOT necessary for everyone. Not saying they can't help some people, but after reading a lot of stuff from Lyle, Alan, etc.. it seems that the people who require refeeds/etc.. are ones who are in contest prep or photo shoots, stuff like that for small amounts of time. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think OP is competing.

[QUOTE=n0useforaname;1014466933]I'll just add that, re-feeds are NOT necessary for everyone. Not saying they can't help some people, but after reading a lot of stuff from Lyle, Alan, etc.. it seems that the people who require refeeds/etc.. are ones who are in contest prep or photo shoots, stuff like that for small amounts of time. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think OP is competing.[/QUOTE]
Just competing for some ass ha just kidding. But really... Anyways, I really like this dude Tom Venuto and he recommends bringing calories up to maintenance, maybe a little over every 4th day so I'm just going to try you guy's recommendations and his and just see what happens. I honestly have never been single digits before (I don't think) so I'm not sure exactly what I'm getting myself into but I really appreciate the feedback from all you guys. Peace!

[QUOTE=n0useforaname;1014466933]I'll just add that, re-feeds are NOT necessary for everyone. Not saying they can't help some people, but after reading a lot of stuff from Lyle, Alan, etc.. it seems that the people who require refeeds/etc.. are ones who are in contest prep or photo shoots, stuff like that for small amounts of time. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think OP is competing.[/QUOTE]

I've read in many places that the need to refeed, along with the amount of carbs and duration to refeed for varies a lot from person to person.

Some people will need it, others won't. Some will need higher carbs, others will gain fat on higher carbs. Some do fine on one day, others need two or three days.

Recommendations are always to start less frequent with carbs on the lower end and adjust accordingly.

Personally, I've found that a preventative refeed once per week or two for a day (once I'm below around 15%) prevents me from plateauing.

Yeah, I read the same stuff, which is why I don't even bother to mention it to people unless they plateau for over a couple weeks, are low BF levels, and complain that their gym sessions are suffering. I did a 4-5 month cut last year and lost quite a bit of weight and got around 10% BF.. I never did a re-feed, nor felt the need to, and I even plateaued for a couple weeks. I remember reading a couple times that when that happens, don't freak out and just keep on trucking for 2-3 weeks to see what happens, because stalls do happen.. then most people get that Woosh and drop like 3-4 pounds in a clip, which happened to me. Most of the time on here I see people mention re-feeds like they need to happen, and it's like most people look for an excuse to eat like that when they don't need to. Plus doing a re-feed will put you in less of a caloric deficit for the week, so unless there is a reason to do that, I personally wouldn't.

And what I mainly meant by my first post is, don't freak out and drop another 500 cals a day... or start jogging an extra 2 miles, or cut all fats out, or cut all carbs out, etc... I've seen people recommend some weird stuff, and I've seen 6 foot guys who weight 190 pounds eat like 1400 cals a day... WTF. :)

If you're 15% bodyfat then I'm a fat fcuk lol. Def look lower to me

Wow I've learned a lot about this over the past few days, thanks again for all the awesome replies. Would you guys mind giving me a bf estimation? It looks like I may need to rethink my math... 13% perhaps? Thanks in advance

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1013725253]Right, thanks for reminding me of that. I know it's much easier to put it on paper than to actually do it. So what do you recommend I do when it starts to slow down? I'm thinking about doing a short clean bulk midway through my cut just to "re-establish my metabolism", if that makes sense, then keep going to my target weight. I've had good luck with that in the past. I figure if I monitor the scale and maintain my strength I can do it. Thanks for the reply![/QUOTE]

I dont know to much about bulking because im pretty small from losing a fair bit of fat. It sounds odd but i was mixing green tea with strong black coffee and that really seemed to boost my metabilism a treat. Maybe worth a try when things slow down?

[QUOTE=baldbeefcake;1014826613]Wow I've learned a lot about this over the past few days, thanks again for all the awesome replies. Would you guys mind giving me a bf estimation? It looks like I may need to rethink my math... 13% perhaps? Thanks in advance[/QUOTE]

It's gonna be really hard for someone to give you a proper estimate.. your shoulder blade, lower back, calf, thigh, tricep, bicep, chest, stomach, side, etc... ALL play a role in body fat estimation... You could look 10 on your front and be 17 with all of them... I honestly don't think you are much lower than 15 because while you have shape, I can't see any veins or muscle striation, etc.. But then again, you are in a small tiny thumbnail pic too.