I need help on training my back!

Sorry for my language, but I am ****ing pissed off!!! I try so hard to train my back, and I never feel my back and I never see any results. My back is my weakest point. I have spent hours reading articles and watching videos on how to train the back properly, and I have tried everything! When I do back exercises, I arch my back, throw my chest high, I use a thumb less grip (false grip or suicide grip) and I pull with my elbows and try my best not to contract my biceps, and I also lowered the weight for all back exercises. I use complete full range of motion, and I don't do the exercises too fast. I just never feel my back doing the work. I am seeing results in every part of my body except my back. For god sake, I grew an inch on my ****ing calves!!! Calves are like the hardest muscle to train, and I grew an inch on them! I have gained 20 pounds and every part of my body has grown, except for my back. Someone please help me, cuz I have tried everything possible.

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014050223]Sorry for my language, but I am ****ing pissed off!!! I try so hard to train my back, and I never feel my back and I never see any results. My back is my weakest point. I have spent hours reading articles and watching videos on how to train the back properly, and I have tried everything! When I do back exercises, I arch my back, throw my chest high, I use a thumb less grip (false grip or suicide grip) and I pull with my elbows and try my best not to contract my biceps, and I also lowered the weight for all back exercises. I use complete full range of motion, and I don't do the exercises too fast. I just never feel my back doing the work. I am seeing results in every part of my body except my back. For god sake, I grew an inch on my ****ing calves!!! Calves are like the hardest muscle to train, and I grew an inch on them! I have gained 20 pounds and every part of my body has grown, except for my back. Someone please help me, cuz I have tried everything possible.[/QUOTE]

See if you can find a lat pulldown machine that has separate handles/cables for each arm, helps you find the mind-muscle connection.

[QUOTE=Virucyde;1014052573]See if you can find a lat pulldown machine that has separate handles/cables for each arm, helps you find the mind-muscle connection.[/QUOTE] In my gym we have a lat pull down machine that is like cables, you can move them freely, but I am also talking about rows, like bent over barbell rows and one arm dumbell row. I just cant feel my back at all with anything that has to do with back. I only feel my lower back sometimes, but I never feel my lats or my mid back. I have felt soreness for all body parts except my back. I never felt sore in my back, during workouts, or after workouts.

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014054633]In my gym we have a lat pull down machine that is like cables, you can move them freely, but I am also talking about rows, like bent over barbell rows and one arm dumbell row. I just cant feel my back at all with anything that has to do with back. I only feel my lower back sometimes, but I never feel my lats or my mid back. I have felt soreness for all body parts except my back. I never felt sore in my back, during workouts, or after workouts.[/QUOTE]

On Dumbbell Rows, are your biceps burning out quicker or something? You have to recognize that the lats are fairly large, so the burn is going to be closer to squats or bench press than calf raises.

[QUOTE=Virucyde;1014058393]On Dumbbell Rows, are your biceps burning out quicker or something? You have to recognize that the lats are fairly large, so the burn is going to be closer to squats or bench press than calf raises.[/QUOTE] The burn is no where near what I feel for legs, I dont even feel a burn at all, and when I do dumbell rows, I bend down and I arch my back, and I use only a 45 pound dumbell, which is very light, and I try to pull my elbow to the sky, and bring the weight all the way down, and I do about 12-15 reps, all till failure. I just don't feel it in my back at all, and I actually don't feel it in my biceps much either. Its really weird, and I ask people in my gym if I'm doing it correctly, and people tell me yes. I'm not trying to sound like a cry baby or a drama queen, but this is really stressing me out.

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014050223]Sorry for my language, but I am ****ing pissed off!!! I try so hard to train my back, and I never feel my back and I never see any results. My back is my weakest point. I have spent hours reading articles and watching videos on how to train the back properly, and I have tried everything! When I do back exercises, I arch my back, throw my chest high, I use a thumb less grip (false grip or suicide grip) and I pull with my elbows and try my best not to contract my biceps, and I also lowered the weight for all back exercises. I use complete full range of motion, and I don't do the exercises too fast. I just never feel my back doing the work. I am seeing results in every part of my body except my back. For god sake, I grew an inch on my ****ing calves!!! Calves are like the hardest muscle to train, and I grew an inch on them! I have gained 20 pounds and every part of my body has grown, except for my back. Someone please help me, cuz I have tried everything possible.[/QUOTE]

how often do you do wide grip pullups?

[QUOTE=sSimon204;1014061963]how often do you do wide grip pullups?[/QUOTE] I don't do pull ups because I can't complete a good amount of reps, and I never felt those in my back either. For my back I do:
Deadlifts - 3 sets of 5-10 reps
Lat pull down - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Lat pulldown behind neck - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Bent over barbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
One arm dumbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
All reps are till failure!

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014063743]I don't do pull ups because I can't complete a good amount of reps, and I never felt those in my back either. For my back I do:
Deadlifts - 3 sets of 5-10 reps
Lat pull down - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Lat pulldown behind neck - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Bent over barbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
One arm dumbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
All reps are till failure![/QUOTE]

I don't think it should affect it this much, but 12-15 seems high for the lats, perhaps you should try the 8-12 range, and use a heavier weight. Again, I'd recommend trying out a lat pulldown machine that has the hands separate. You mentioned you tried it, but I want to emphasize the pulling your elbows down. I didn't feel my back for years until I began emphasizing pulling my elbows down. The rest of your arm should essentially go limp.

Also, just want to make sure you recognize the deadlift as primarily a leg exercise.

Just because you dont recieve a pump, or dont feel anything while working out doesnt mean your not working the muscle suffiently. Deadlifts are one of the best overall exercises for strength/growth, yet most people dont feel or get a pump from doing them!. Are your weights going up at all on back exercises?, or are they still the same as the day you started?

Some people's mind to muscle connection is better for differant body parts. Can you actively contract your lats when standing up right/hands at side(anatomical position)?

Also your rep range is quite high if your goal is strength/size(not that you can't build muscle at that rep range), it's just more suited for muscular endurance than hypertrophy). You may try sticking to 6-12 reps if sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is your ultimate goal in mind.

[QUOTE=Virucyde;1014065063]I don't think it should affect it this much, but 12-15 seems high for the lats, perhaps you should try the 8-12 range, and use a heavier weight. Again, I'd recommend trying out a lat pulldown machine that has the hands separate. You mentioned you tried it, but I want to emphasize the pulling your elbows down. I didn't feel my back for years until I began emphasizing pulling my elbows down. The rest of your arm should essentially go limp.

Also, just want to make sure you recognize the deadlift as primarily a leg exercise.[/QUOTE] The reason I do high reps is because I drop the weight so that I can emphasize my back, if I use heavier weight, my biceps and forearms do all the work, and I use my elbows like you are saying

[QUOTE=Evandrus;1014068433]Just because you dont recieve a pump, or dont feel anything while working out doesnt mean your not working the muscle suffiently. Deadlifts are one of the best overall exercises for strength/growth, yet most people dont feel or get a pump from doing them!. Are your weights going up at all on back exercises?, or are they still the same as the day you started?

Some people's mind to muscle connection is better for differant body parts. Can you actively contract your lats when standing up right/hands at side(anatomical position)?

Also your rep range is quite high if your goal is strength/size(not that you can't build muscle at that rep range), it's just more suited for muscular endurance than hypertrophy). You may try sticking to 6-12 reps if sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is your ultimate goal in mind.[/QUOTE] I have lowered the weight since the day I started because before I didn't really know how to work out properly. If I put the weight too high, I feel that my biceps and forearms do all the work. And I don't even know how to flex my lats, I feel like I actually have no back muscles

not sure how you feel about them but have you tried lifting straps and use heavier weight? takes most of the forearm/grip work out of it and might make it easier to get the mind-muscle connection you are looking for.

also try different grips and/or range of motions. such as: for single arm dumbell rows i have found it much easier to get the lats to contract harder if i pull more towards my chest/abs. but for barbell rows i have to pull towards the hips with a double overhand grip to get the lats to do the work. but i am thinki9ng you might have lowered the weight so much that the lats arent really needing to exert themselves to the point of fatigue

[QUOTE=400Lb Gorilla;1014105353]not sure how you feel about them but have you tried lifting straps and use heavier weight? takes most of the forearm/grip work out of it and might make it easier to get the mind-muscle connection you are looking for. [/QUOTE]

This is a very good suggestion. You could also practice flexing your back muscles while sitting on the couch. Put your hands above your head and practice feeling the contraction in your back as you bring your arms down, as if doing a pullup. Get yourself used to feeling that contraction.

[QUOTE=400Lb Gorilla;1014105353]not sure how you feel about them but have you tried lifting straps and use heavier weight? takes most of the forearm/grip work out of it and might make it easier to get the mind-muscle connection you are looking for.

also try different grips and/or range of motions. such as: for single arm dumbell rows i have found it much easier to get the lats to contract harder if i pull more towards my chest/abs. but for barbell rows i have to pull towards the hips with a double overhand grip to get the lats to do the work. but i am thinki9ng you might have lowered the weight so much that the lats arent really needing to exert themselves to the point of fatigue[/QUOTE] Yeah I do the same thing you do, and I am afraid to add more weight and then my biceps do all the work, and i'll look into those lifting straps

[QUOTE=alexb650;1014110913]This is a very good suggestion. You could also practice flexing your back muscles while sitting on the couch. Put your hands above your head and practice feeling the contraction in your back as you bring your arms down, as if doing a pullup. Get yourself used to feeling that contraction.[/QUOTE] Yeah I do that too sometimes, but with weight, it feels so much different

Pull ups and Deadlifts my friend! Focus most of your energy on those 2 lifts.

When your doing deadlifts for back you should feel it all the way through your upper and mid-back. Doing deadlift for back is like doing rows. Picture holding the row cable/machine with so much weight that you couldnt pull your arms back, that is what a deadlift is. The negative part of the deadlift is where you really feel it, keep the weight more away from your shins when doing it for back (you should almost feel it in your traps). Lower very slow and it should really burn out your mid/upper back. FInd the sweet spot and murder it!

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014063743]I don't do pull ups because I can't complete a good amount of reps, and I never felt those in my back either. For my back I do:
Deadlifts - 3 sets of 5-10 reps
Lat pull down - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Lat pulldown behind neck - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
Bent over barbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
One arm dumbell row - 3 sets of 12-15 reps
All reps are till failure![/QUOTE]

In my opinion, I would definitely try to add in pullups. And the only way you're going to be able to complete more reps of them is by actually doing them. I made it my goal to be able to do pullups a couple months ago (couldn't do ANY) and now I can do 5 per set.
Try starting your back day routine with 3-5 sets of pullups to failure. Just give it all you got. Plus, you can't really cheat on these like you said you do with the other exercises :)
I agree with the other posters that you should lower your reps and increase the weight. If you can do 15 reps correctly with a lower weight, you should be able to do 6-8 correctly with a higher weight. You just gotta be mindful of what muscles you're using and your form. ie. make sure you're back is straight, etc.
I don't really recommend behind the neck pulldowns simply because I've heard they can be bad for your shoulders and I don't have the best rotator cuffs. And I don't think they have any added benefit that regular pulldowns don't have.

My back isn't GREAT, but I think it's pretty decent. And I've been told my lats are pretty big for my size, especially while I'm lifting. Here's my routine, take from it what you will:
deadlift, shrugs, upright rows, pull ups, curl ups, bent over row, pulldowns, seated rows, and superset 3 different kinds of pushups with 3 different ab exercises (alternating pushups, abs, pushups, abs, pushups, abs).
Each exercise is done for 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps.

Best of luck!

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014082933]I have lowered the weight since the day I started because before I didn't really know how to work out properly. If I put the weight too high, I feel that my biceps and forearms do all the work. And I don't even know how to flex my lats, I feel like I actually have no back muscles[/QUOTE]
Not sure you've answered the other question, have you progressed on any back exercises at all?..are you getting stronger at doing them?

You could also try having someone stand behind you while doing rows etc, and have them lightly dig their fingers or pinch the spot where you should be contracting the muscle. This may help you develop a mind to muscle connection while lifting.

I would continue doing pull-ups even though you say you cant do many reps go to failure so you can build your reps up, I wouldn't give up on them. Also try doing reverse grip on all you back workout like reverse grip lat pull down, reverse bent over barbell row, use a straight bar on seated cable row with a reverse grip see if that hits your lats more.

[QUOTE=VicTheTank;1014050223]Sorry for my language, but I am ****ing pissed off!!! I try so hard to train my back, and I never feel my back and I never see any results. My back is my weakest point. I have spent hours reading articles and watching videos on how to train the back properly, and I have tried everything! When I do back exercises, I arch my back, throw my chest high, I use a thumb less grip (false grip or suicide grip) and I pull with my elbows and try my best not to contract my biceps, and I also lowered the weight for all back exercises. I use complete full range of motion, and I don't do the exercises too fast. I just never feel my back doing the work. I am seeing results in every part of my body except my back. For god sake, I grew an inch on my ****ing calves!!! Calves are like the hardest muscle to train, and I grew an inch on them! I have gained 20 pounds and every part of my body has grown, except for my back. Someone please help me, cuz I have tried everything possible.[/QUOTE]

What's your training volume/frequency for back?

I find my back grows from two days a week training, with high volume one day and high weight the next session.
Been running 5/3/1 for a year and some change. I have horizontal pulls on bench day and vertical pulls on press day

Horizontal
4x12, 1x20+ rowing movement of some kind

Vertical
Wide grip pullups, either 10x12 (some hammer grip sets thrown in) or 10x10 (all wide)
* I do reduced volume, weighted pullups, on occasion. But I find that it doesn't do as much for me as pullup volume. And weighted pullups can quickly become a max-effort movement if one gets gung ho with the the weights strapped on. Volume>weight, at least for me.

Your back will grow from volume volume volume, and it can take it. Just my .02

Do you happen to have T-bar at the gym? I was showed when using one of those, not to bring up my arms... but to unrack and try to pull my back together without arm bend. This really helped with my back growth.
Also when on the lat pulldown, try to pull down with your back and lats and not biceps.

Focus on contracting your lats on db rows. Hold it at the contracted position for a sec then control the negative, when you feel a stretch in your lats Explode up and squeeze your back.

I suggest you close your eyes. Dont think about pulling with elbows or arching your back, focus on contracting your lats. If you do this correctly your back will automatically arch..

I find it tough to gauge how much my back is actually growing, but you might be surprised how a few progress pics (of your back) will help you see dem gains.

And as some one else mentioned, 12-15 reps is probably not the best way to add size.

I would do pull-ups. Do several small sets. 1-2 reps in between other exercises or put a pull up bar in your house and do them several times through out the day. You will be able to build up your pull up numbers and then move on to weighted ones.

Have you tried Kroc Rows. Heavy dumbbell rows aiming for 20+ reps.

Thanks for all the advice guys. I workout every muscle once a week, but I am considering doing back twice a week because I don't feel like waiting a whole nother week just to try again. And I never feel **** in my back anyways. Is this a good idea or no?