My Novice 5x5 For Bodybuilders.

[QUOTE=Charlie581;1053200021]Im going to assume you took this out of context. Lou Simmons most likely discussed box squatting in terms of actually using box squats to supplement a variation in whatever routine he was addressing.

Jason, on the other hand, does NOT recommend nor has he ever said for a beginner to COMPLETELY replace conventional squats for box squatting. Whet he recommends box squatting for, is to get down proper form and the proper mechanics of the squat, which after about 2 or 3 weeks - 1 month of box squatting, you should remove the box.

SO in short, no, there is no beneficial reason for YOU to move box squatting to 8x3 for hypertrophy/strength reasons as a novice.[/QUOTE]
No man i didnt take it out of context i just didnt understand it properly. Like dave tate said in his box squat article that he didnt free squat anymore, lol i guess i shouldnt get those ideas into my head and just learn to back squat right. Thanks for your time.

[QUOTE=mangomagic;1053205201]what up people! i got a random question i thought i'd drop it in here. i'm on week 6 of this program and the weight for deadlifts/shrugs/rows are getting too heavy for my (weak) grip. i ordered a pair of harbinger weight straps and i'm fully aware on how to use them... however, they don't help at all (i actually lost my grip on the bar today WITH the straps and it fell and attracted some unwanted attention, doh). i have small hands so when i grip the bar with the strap wrapped around it, the bar becomes too thick for me to grip comfortably.

any suggestions as to what i should try next? chalk? different kind of strap?[/QUOTE] For deadlifts and shrugs try mixed grip, palm facing in and the other palm facing out. Use chalk to help with the grip but dun use traps i find that in the beginning they dont help improve grip strength at all.

[QUOTE=SebastianMorar;1053192481]I'm getting some hip (?) pain during my squats, both sides.
[img]http://www.sports-injury-info.com/image-files/hip-pain-hip-flexor.jpg[/img]
Anyone know the cause of this, or ever had the same? Will try to record tomorrow so you can see the form.[/QUOTE]

Like Charlie said i would check your form first, if everything is in order work on flexibility and mobility. I made a post about this a few pages back. What seems to worked for me was taking a deload on squats for a week, foam roll more and work on stretching more often during the day.

Also I would imagine at 16 you are sitting a decent amount of time at school. Check oout this link [url]www.dieselcrew.com/glute-activation-exercise[/url] some of the info my help

[QUOTE=tazui1982;1053226281]For deadlifts and shrugs try mixed grip, palm facing in and the other palm facing out. Use chalk to help with the grip but dun use traps i find that in the beginning they dont help improve grip strength at all.[/QUOTE]

Just be careful with mixed grip or you can tear your bicep...

[QUOTE=tazui1982;1053226281]For deadlifts and shrugs try mixed grip, palm facing in and the other palm facing out. Use chalk to help with the grip but dun use traps i find that in the beginning they dont help improve grip strength at all.[/QUOTE]

i use mixed grip... it helps, however, the bar still slips out of my hand. i'll give chalk a try and see if it's any better.

[QUOTE=tazui1982;1053226281]For deadlifts and shrugs try mixed grip, palm facing in and the other palm facing out. Use chalk to help with the grip but dun use traps i find that in the beginning they dont help improve grip strength at all.[/QUOTE]

i use versa grips just google them they cost alot but well worth it. i use them as soon as my grip is not there and i cant focus on the movement really dont care much about grip it can be looked at later i think.

[QUOTE=iBeastMode207;1053228331]Just be careful with mixed grip or you can tear your bicep...[/QUOTE]

You will only tear your bicep if you aren't locking your arms during the lift. If you lift the bar with your elbows bent and tension on your bicep, then it is possible that when the bicep can't sustain that tension it tears. Point of the story is don't make exercises for your back, legs and traps into bicep exercises - keep those arms straight.

With the OHP, every time I even pick up the bar it seems all tension goes to my right shoulder. Throughout the lift as well, but like I said I can feel tension on it right as I pick the bar up from the rack. This is my worst lift, havent progressed in a week on it because of this shoulder issue. Anybody know why this might be? I noticed my left shoulder can rotate fully smoothly but my right shoulder kind of pops in place after I raise it up to a certain point.

I'm over 20% body fat (probably about 22%) but I have still been eating a surplus (eating very clean though) and trying to build muscle on this program for 8 weeks now (also lifted for about a month before that on a different program). I planned on trying to build muscle for about a year before I was going to cut because I was convince I was skinny fat and I read that this may be a better route to go.

Now I'm not so sure. A lower body fat would obviously make the biggest difference in my aesthetics. I think I just might be someone who has bad genetics as far as where they gain fat (mainly around my belly/love handles). I thought I was skinny fat because of that and because no one knows I'm a little pudgy unless I took my shirt off. (I look like a lean guy I just have a unimpressive beach/bodybuilding body). Point is I think am more muscular than a true skinny fat and I don't seem to have any trouble gaining size because I've had decent gains in the just few months (not a characteristic of the skinny fat).

So I'm joining the cutting crew starting today. I'm also going to try to keeping going with the 5x5 3x8 till I run into problems. I hope its the right decision because I am making nice gains both in strength and size but the belly has to go and I'm noticing its not going anywhere doing what I'm doing.

Stop me soon if this is a bad idea

[QUOTE=Winfamy;1053223911]You don't know and we're not medically qualified to make any proper recommendations, that is why you should go to a physical therapist and have him assess it, like you've been told a number of times already.[/QUOTE]

It's a damned calcified rotator cuff... In his shoulder... He can lunge and leg press perfectly fine.
What I am asking is.. What would Jason use as a substitute. Because he holds squats in such high regards (#1 mass builder and awesome way to warm up nervous system).
Thus, my question DOESNT NEED a physiotherapist. It needs someone knowledgable (Jason), to tell me what is second best to squat.. Or is it purely for leg strength and therefore he could do leg press, but with more working sets to equalize stimulation.

[QUOTE=Easty20;1053568161]It's a damned calcified rotator cuff... In his shoulder... He can lunge and leg press perfectly fine.
What I am asking is.. What would Jason use as a substitute. Because he holds squats in such high regards (#1 mass builder and awesome way to warm up nervous system).
Thus, my question DOESNT NEED a physiotherapist. It needs someone knowledgable (Jason), to tell me what is second best to squat.. Or is it purely for leg strength and therefore he could do leg press, but with more working sets to equalize stimulation.[/QUOTE]
Tbh many people already including jason already said that if a trainee has medical conditions which he cant squat than you should consult a doctor. Why dun you aks the doctor who can squat about your father's conditions and whether he can squat or not. From my own experience leg press cant sub squat because it takes away stabiliser muscles and entire back only working quads glutes and hams, which further means you cant effectively increase strength with leg press.

Out of curiosity if someone was to do this routine on maintenance calories what would they have to change the sets too? 3x5 like a cut? or 4x5 as a compromise? :o Obviously not doing this haha but just curious.

With the OHP, every time I even pick up the bar it seems all tension goes to my right shoulder. Throughout the lift as well, but like I said I can feel tension on it right as I pick the bar up from the rack. This is my worst lift, havent progressed in a week on it because of this shoulder issue. Anybody know why this might be? I noticed my left shoulder can rotate fully smoothly but my right shoulder kind of pops in place after I raise it up to a certain point.



Also can I try underhand grip for bent over row? I never really feel them in my back with overhand grip

[QUOTE=tazui1982;1053587031]Tbh many people already including jason already said that if a trainee has medical conditions which he cant squat than you should consult a doctor. Why dun you aks the doctor who can squat about your father's conditions and whether he can squat or not. From my own experience leg press cant sub squat because it takes away stabiliser muscles and entire back only working quads glutes and hams, which further means you cant effectively increase strength with leg press.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for the reply :)

Also, what is the weight increases for The cutting version. The 3x5 increase, 2x8 heavy and 2x8 light?
And how should you increase for the kneeling cable crunch and cable uprights

E/ oh and how long should breaks be?

[QUOTE=Easty20;1053651791]Thank you for the reply :)

Also, what is the weight increases for The cutting version. The 3x5 increase, 2x8 heavy and 2x8 light?
And how should you increase for the kneeling cable crunch and cable uprights

E/ oh and how long should breaks be?[/QUOTE] Check this out [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=173[/url] thread #5166

What's the best frequency to run this?

A b a b rest repeat

Or a rest b rest a rest b rest a etc

Or a b rest a b rest a b rest

[QUOTE=Divall213;1053678251]What's the best frequency to run this?

A b a b rest repeat

Or a rest b rest a rest b rest a etc

Or a b rest a b rest a b rest[/QUOTE]

Your workouts will either be Monday/Wednesday/Friday with Saturday and Sunday off, or Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday with Sundays and Mondays off. Always 3 workouts a week followed by two rest days.

I'm on my second week and this workout is kicking my ass. Already see my body changing though. Can't wait till I have good progress to show. Just wanted to share ! Stoked.

[QUOTE=tazui1982;1053675831]Check this out [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148036063&page=173[/url] thread #5166[/QUOTE]

That actually doesn't have break times for the cutting routine, only the normal.

And as far as weight increases for cutting, it only says every other workout. That's for the 2.5kg increases to the compounds. It doesn't say how much for the light or the heavy isolated's.

[QUOTE=digitalicon;1053679281]I'm on my second week and this workout is kicking my ass. Already see my body changing though. Can't wait till I have good progress to show. Just wanted to share ! Stoked.[/QUOTE]

Enjoy it man! I'm 2 and a half months in and still loving it as much as the first day!

When i do my squats, i cant help but lift my heels on decent and ascent, i know i am not as limber as i could be and will be starting to do some stretches to get more flexibility.

Is this really bad form and should i stop squatting till i am more flexible ?

Cheers

[QUOTE=Easty20;1053684021]That actually doesn't have break times for the cutting routine, only the normal.

And as far as weight increases for cutting, it only says every other workout. That's for the 2.5kg increases to the compounds. It doesn't say how much for the light or the heavy isolated's.[/QUOTE]Break time 3-5 mins for 3x5 and 1-2 mins for isolated. My understanding of every other workout means increase 2.5kg once a week. For press I actually microload with 1lb per session.

[QUOTE=ZoMbi3;1053698531]When i do my squats, i cant help but lift my heels on decent and ascent, i know i am not as limber as i could be and will be starting to do some stretches to get more flexibility.

Is this really bad form and should i stop squatting till i am more flexible ?

Cheers[/QUOTE] You should shoot a video, upload it here and we could see what's wrong with your squat.

Could someone check out my post? I injured my shoulder and don't know why to do...
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=153198071&p=1053698041#post1053698041[/url]

[QUOTE=Easty20;1053684021]That actually doesn't have break times for the cutting routine, only the normal.

And as far as weight increases for cutting, it only says every other workout. That's for the 2.5kg increases to the compounds. It doesn't say how much for the light or the heavy isolated's.[/QUOTE]

Break times are the same when cutting, and you still progress with the same weights as normal but one workout longer, A lift 100, next A 100, next A increase as in normal routine

[QUOTE=bonsai14;1053701791]Could someone check out my post? I injured my shoulder and don't know why to do...
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=153198071&p=1053698041#post1053698041[/url][/QUOTE]

Do what both of the replies say

[QUOTE=iBeastMode207;1042365543]A quick FAQ to answer all of the questions that are constantly being brought up in regards to this program, as it's starting to get quite annoying. If I leave out anything of importance, feel free to add to it.

1. Watch the video, 99.9% of all of your questions can be answered by actually taking the time to watch the video on page 1. If you can't take the time to do this you are simply not worth the gains the program can offer you.

2. Unless you are UNABLE TO DO SO FOR MEDICAL REASONS ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not alter the program. You are a novice, and quite simply you don't know what the **** you're doing. If you did you wouldn't be in here. If you want to go changing everything to fit what you believe will give you better results, go post it in the workout programs forum so everyone can tell you to your face you are an idiot and clueless. Then they will refer you to a proven program that works, such as this one.

4. If you have bad knees, do box squats. Otherwise unless you are MEDICALLY UNABLE, you squat 5x5 plus your warmup sets, and you deadlift 1x5 plus your warm up sets. Deadlifts are 1x5 for a reason, because they are taxing on your CNS and if you **** around you will get hurt. So don't be the tough guy who wants to do 5x5 deadlifts, because you will fail miserably. Don't suggest doing 3x8 or whatever, you do the reps and sets as they are laid out in the program. You are not smarter than the creator of this program, you are a novice and are clueless.

5. Don't ask if you can ditch squats or deadlifts because "you don't like them". If you do so, make sure to bring your box of tampons along to the gym with you each workout.

6. Supplemental calf work is acceptable, but you don't need it. If you want to do the extra work, when you don't need it, feel free if it keeps you from bitching.

7. Side lat raises are also acceptable, but Jason suggests doing facepulls instead. Google it if you need to.

8. Additional ab work is acceptable. Doing ab work on off days instead is also acceptable.

9. The CUTTING VERSION is 3x5 for main lifts, 2x8 for accessory lifts. Also you only progress every other session, not every session. Example Workout B: deadlift 200, next workout B: deadlift 200, next workout B: deadlift 205. You still progress with the same amount
oof weight as the normal version.

10. With a good diet you do not need to do cardio, most people here don't even bother as it will not make you magically lose weight. Diet is what affects weight.

11. Until you have read these threads, do not bother anyone with a diet question. Just don't.
Calculating calories and macros: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981[/url]
If you are skinnyfat: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=148733753[/url]
Basic Nutrition Questions and Answers: [url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136691851[/url]

12. For tracking calories, Myfitnesspal is a pretty solid app. To calculate your TDEE for calorie needs determination: [url]http://iifym.com/calculators/[/url]

13. If you fail a rep/set/whatever, you repeat that weight the next workout. If you fail the next workout, you lower your weight by 10% and do that until the next time you would progress. Reset weights get rounded down.

14. You do not need to add any extra accessory work, you are a novice, your entire body is lagging right now. You fix your overall body before moving to intermediate and focusing on certain parts.

15. If you are not progressing and stall for a while, you may need to deload. Read here: [url]http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-deload-week-what-it-is-how-to-do-it-and-why-it-might-help-you-get-stronger/#axzz2O5gcgoog[/url]

16. Hyperextension can be substituted with goodmornings or cable pull throughs. CGBP/Dips are a matter of preference, Jason just prefers CGBP.

17. Watch the icecreamfitness videos on youtube.

18. Break times between sets are 3-5 minutes for the 5x5 sets & 1-2 for the 3x8 sets.
This does not change for the cutting version.

19. If you have an injury or a medical question concerning substitutions for any lifts, consult a medical professional. No one in this forum is qualified to hand out medical advice.

Are you novice, intermediate, advanced?:
[youtube]EK8O0krh-Kw[/youtube]

Beginners Mistakes:
[youtube]9J1N0Wx-rY0[/youtube]

[youtube]mNLl1qf7cR8[/youtube]


Box Squats:
[youtube]K5q6XBySetU[/youtube]

Benching to build chest:
[youtube]kz3aY6jgm-Q[/youtube]

Row Form:
[youtube]rNjwZ1fxtCQ[/youtube]

Curl Mistakes:
[youtube]8v2Yx2StOw0[/youtube]

Skull Crusher PROPER FORM:
[youtube]7QUzxllAB7c[/youtube]

CGBP Vs. Dips:
[youtube]tfXlDSsQiq4[/youtube]

CGBP Form:
[youtube]GwbZM6TPJCQ[/youtube]

Solid Squat Form:
[youtube]Qr03_YhXTgo[/youtube]

Foam Rolling:
[youtube]KE5na0zvVMg[/youtube]

When you're ready to move to intermediate program:
[youtube]URXp5kIRMvA[/youtube]

Benefits of Deloading:
[youtube]KnoxdfsJWNk[/youtube]

Why you are doing BB shoulder presses instead of DB:
[youtube]eaJJY2jR7u4[/youtube][/QUOTE]


Updated.

Can I do decline bench press rather than the flat?

[QUOTE=jfodra;1053779251]Can I do decline bench press rather than the flat?[/QUOTE]

No, and why would you want to do that?

[QUOTE=MrSlippery;1053782821]No, and why would you want to do that?[/QUOTE]

They say the decline is better than the flat. Even Dorian Yates said it in his program.