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what in yer years of training is the best angle for dumbell press??
recently im useing common 45 degree but reading a artile on charles glass he uses angle of 60??
would this hit more of deltiod?? maybe only for some people??
never did at this angle before?
but charles is the s***! and i say he is right cos he said u hit more upper pec than shoulder?
yer taughts guys
you'll find answers commonly ranging from 30-45 degrees. Then a handful more going with 45-60 degrees.
It is all personal preference. I am of the group that likes 30 degrees usually.
People like lower ones, because it still activates the upper pec well and reduces teh amount of delt activation. Higher degree, can hit the upper chest harder, but as you said, it does bring in more delt activity. It is a trade off.
^^^^
This.
When I do go at 60ish degree inclines, I lighten the load pretty significantly, so I can focus my form on more upper pec activation. If you really concentrate on it, you can take out a lot fo the delt involvement.
i've used low incline for awhile and then saw the Glass video you mentioned and decided to try it, on the smith machine. And for 2 reasons.
1 I'm currently using flat for DB, following up with incline BB.
2 Last chest day, someone was using the only set of uprights I can use to get a low incline for BB. ( I cannot use the normal 45 degree bech setups due to some pretty heavy shoulder popping)
Now. Before we all start bashing on the smith, it has to be mentioned that this particular one was a "double axis" machine for lack of better wording. I set it up at a higher incline that I believe to be 60degs.
Result? Felt good man.
Of course the weight was a bit lighter and it takes a bit more concentration to focus on the pecs, but let's be honest, when you get to that area of the pecs, the upper fibers run in a similar direction as the front delts so MMC is pretty important here.
[QUOTE=chazzy1864;372635111]you'll find answers commonly ranging from 30-45 degrees. Then a handful more going with 45-60 degrees.
It is all personal preference. I am of the group that likes 30 degrees usually.
People like lower ones, because it still activates the upper pec well and reduces teh amount of delt activation. Higher degree, can hit the upper chest harder, but as you said, it does bring in more delt activity. It is a trade off.[/QUOTE]
this is right. i am more for the 45-60 range. it just depends on your preference.
I prefer 15-30 degrees.
i like 30 degress. i already do a lot of overhead pressing work so i need the concentration to be on the chest as much as possible
I doubt anyone has done a double-blind study to determine what is actually "best" for pectoral development, so any posts are simply going to be opinions.
My personal opinion is that at a 0 degree (flat) incline you're going to be "100% pectoral" and at 90 degrees (vertical) you're going to be "100% deltoid". Somewhere around 45-60 degrees should be about 50/50 - it's not a perfectly linear scale. (This is not strictly true, of course, but is a useful analogy for practical application).
So choose your incline based on what you are trying to develop.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372655101]So choose your incline based on what you are trying to develop.[/QUOTE]
This. Vary the angle every so often to change up the focus.
Whichever angle best lets you oggle the cardio section chicks between sets, is the best angle for your workout.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372655101]I doubt anyone has done a double-blind study to determine what is actually "best" for pectoral development, so any posts are simply going to be opinions.
My personal opinion is that at a 0 degree (flat) incline you're going to be "100% pectoral" and at 90 degrees (vertical) you're going to be "100% deltoid". Somewhere around 45-60 degrees should be about 50/50 - it's not a perfectly linear scale. (This is not strictly true, of course, but is a useful analogy for practical application).
So choose your incline based on what you are trying to develop.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you on the 45-60 degree thing and the non linearity of it but I think there must be something wrong because it doesn't seem to follow logic:
0 degrees you say is "100% pectoral"
90 degrees is "100% deltoid"
but doesn't flat pressing use more deltoid than vertical pressing involves the pecs? This'd mean that the angle would have to be less than 45. Like I said, I don't agree with the logic.
[QUOTE=Power_11;372672491]I agree with you on the 45-60 degree thing and the non linearity of it but I think there must be something wrong because it doesn't seem to follow logic:
0 degrees you say is "100% pectoral"
90 degrees is "100% deltoid"
but doesn't flat pressing use more deltoid than vertical pressing involves the pecs? This'd mean that the angle would have to be less than 45. Like I said, I don't agree with the logic.[/QUOTE]
The angle would have to be less than 45 for what? For an even 50/50 split?
The pectoral is a larger muscle than the deltoid, so even if logic would dictate a 50% split at 45 degrees (or as you say something even less), the reality (in my mind) is that the larger muscle will do more work when it can. So in this case you'd have to go up to say, 60 degrees before you "weakened" the pectoral enough to get an even split. I have no evidence of this, it's simply my experience.
Like I said, it's not linear. On top of that everyone is different, based on both their physiology and the relative strength of their different muscle groups.
Anyway, I think you are over-thinking this. My point was merely that if you [i]imagine[/i] flat as 100% pectoral, vertical as 100% deltoid, and 45-60 degrees as the median point, then for [i]practical purposes[/i] then you'll be able to dial in on what you are trying to develop.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372655101]I doubt anyone has done a double-blind study to determine what is actually "best" for pectoral development, so any posts are simply going to be opinions.
My personal opinion is that at a 0 degree (flat) incline you're going to be "100% pectoral" and at 90 degrees (vertical) you're going to be "100% deltoid". Somewhere around 45-60 degrees should be about 50/50 - it's not a perfectly linear scale. (This is not strictly true, of course, but is a useful analogy for practical application).
So choose your incline based on what you are trying to develop.[/QUOTE]
From a physics standpoint (vectors), 30˚ incline is equal to half the force of gravity acting on your chest and half on your delts. This is assuming 0˚ is 100% chest and 90˚ is 100% delts.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372684391]The pectoral is a larger muscle than the deltoid, so even if logic would dictate a 50% split at 45 degrees (or as you say something even less), the reality (in my mind) is that the larger muscle will do more work when it can. So in this case you'd have to go up to say, 60 degrees before you "weakened" the pectoral enough to get an even split. I have no evidence of this, it's simply my experience. [/QUOTE]
This is a good point. My dad completely tore his anterior RC tendon, but was able to lift his arm in that direction for a decent ROM due to his other muscles making up for it.
I suppose a larger muscle would act in the same way, so a more empirical approach to figuring this out might end up showing the pec to compensate for the shoulder's (relative) weakness up to a higher incline than one might imagine based on the laws of physics.
i put the chair on 3
30-45 is what I use
[QUOTE=musicality213;372691221]From a physics standpoint (vectors), 30˚ incline is equal to half the force of gravity acting on your chest and half on your delts. This is assuming 0˚ is 100% chest and 90˚ is 100% delts.[/QUOTE]
No, that would be 45 degrees. Both the Sin and Cos of 45 degrees is 0.707, which would make the two sides of the force vector equal at that angle.
At 30 or 60 degrees, one vector would be 0.86 and one would be 0.5 times the hypotenuse (lifting load).
Don't make me draw the free body diagram on your ass. :)
60 with angled wrist position.
Hits dem dang ol' upper pecs gud
thanks for all yer advices,,
so changing angles weekly will hit different parts of upper pecs??
(30,45,60) ??
did at 60 today using a fairly heavy weight, tought had to reduce weight to feel more of pec, felt alot in my front delt this common??
normally use same weight at 30-45 degree bench feel more on pec??
what suits ur preferences jus stick at it ( if it AINT broken dont fix it!!)
[QUOTE=robert115;372741961]thanks for all yer advices,,
so changing angles weekly will hit different parts of upper pecs??
(30,45,60) ??
did at 60 today using a fairly heavy weight, tought had to reduce weight to feel more of pec, felt alot in my front delt this common??
normally use same weight at 30-45 degree bench feel more on pec??
what suits ur preferences jus stick at it ( if it AINT broken dont fix it!!)[/QUOTE]
Also arm positioning is a big factor in delt involvement. When doing incline db press, hold your arm at about 45 degrees to your body.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372725011]No, that would be 45 degrees. Both the Sin and Cos of 45 degrees is 0.707, which would make the two sides of the force vector equal at that angle.
At 30 or 60 degrees, one vector would be 0.86 and one would be 0.5 times the hypotenuse (lifting load).
Don't make me draw the free body diagram on your ass. :)[/QUOTE]
I admire your mathematical usage. How do you know of it? At 41, you're not fresh out of education, and I would be surprised if you could recall such mathematics from back then...so do you work in a mathematically related field?
[QUOTE=robert115;372634391]what in yer years of training is the best angle for dumbell press??
recently im useing common 45 degree but reading a artile on charles glass he uses angle of 60??
would this hit more of deltiod?? maybe only for some people??
never did at this angle before?
but charles is the s***! and i say he is right cos he said u hit more upper pec than shoulder?
yer taughts guys[/QUOTE]
mix it up from workout to workout. some angles utilize chest more and others hit delts more directly. try different angles and see which ones hit the desired target area the best.
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372725011]No, that would be 45 degrees. Both the Sin and Cos of 45 degrees is 0.707, which would make the two sides of the force vector equal at that angle.
At 30 or 60 degrees, one vector would be 0.86 and one would be 0.5 times the hypotenuse (lifting load).
Don't make me draw the free body diagram on your ass. :)[/QUOTE]
I'm going to need a free body diagram, and I'm too lazy to draw one of my own at the moment. :)
Now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, though, I'm finding that it would go something like this. The numbers are of course theoretical, but it makes sense if you think about it (to me, at least):
Flat: 40% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid
30%: 30% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid, 10% medial deltoid
45%: 25% chest, 35% triceps, 20% anterior deltoid, 20% medial deltoid
60%: 15% chest, 35% triceps, 15% anterior deltoid, 35% medial deltoid
90%: 0% chest, 35% triceps, 10% anterior deltoid, 55% medial deltoid
[QUOTE=NaeMuskles;372763811]I admire your mathematical usage. How do you know of it? At 41, you're not fresh out of education, and I would be surprised if you could recall such mathematics from back then...so do you work in a mathematically related field?[/QUOTE]
You're surprised that someone "old" actually knows math?
Anyway, in the O35 forum we actually calculate force vectors and do matrix multiplication on a daily basis to determine the optimum loading for all lifts. OldSuperman can do quantum physics calculations in his sleep.
Now get off my lawn!
[QUOTE=musicality213;372778931]I'm going to need a free body diagram, and I'm too lazy to draw one of my own at the moment. :)
Now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, though, I'm finding that it would go something like this. The numbers are of course theoretical, but it makes sense if you think about it (to me, at least):
Flat: 40% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid
30%: 30% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid, 10% medial deltoid
45%: 25% chest, 35% triceps, 20% anterior deltoid, 20% medial deltoid
60%: 15% chest, 35% triceps, 15% anterior deltoid, 35% medial deltoid
90%: 0% chest, 35% triceps, 10% anterior deltoid, 55% medial deltoid[/QUOTE]
Now that really [b]is[/b] over-thinking it. The only thing getting stronger from the debate is our brains. :)
Just go lift!
[QUOTE=VoxExMachina;372784511]You're surprised that someone "old" actually knows math?
Anyway, in the O35 forum we actually calculate force vectors and do matrix multiplication on a daily basis to determine the optimum loading for all lifts. OldSuperman can do quantum physics calculations in his sleep.
Now get off my lawn!
Now that really [b]is[/b] over-thinking it. The only thing getting stronger from the debate is our brains. :)
Just go lift![/QUOTE]
Dude, I'm a physics major. What do you expect?
:D
Try this:
1st set at 45
2nd set at 30
3rd set at 15
Which one did you feel worked your upper chest the most? Stick with that angle.
I actually sometimes throw the above into my chest workout as a finisher without breaks in between the sets (except changing the bench angle, of course).
I've also had the best results using a 30 degree angle.
[QUOTE=musicality213;372778931]I'm going to need a free body diagram, and I'm too lazy to draw one of my own at the moment. :)
Now that I'm thinking about it a bit more, though, I'm finding that it would go something like this. The numbers are of course theoretical, but it makes sense if you think about it (to me, at least):
Flat: 40% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid
30%: 30% chest, 35% triceps, 25% anterior deltoid, 10% medial deltoid
45%: 25% chest, 35% triceps, 20% anterior deltoid, 20% medial deltoid
60%: 15% chest, 35% triceps, 15% anterior deltoid, 35% medial deltoid
90%: 0% chest, 35% triceps, 10% anterior deltoid, 55% medial deltoid[/QUOTE]
There are so many different variables to consider that this is complete bull****. Seriously man. Gah, this is just retarded. I just wrote out a bunch of stuff but really I could not careless about these completely made up numbers.
[QUOTE=FullMetal;372833481]There are so many different variables to consider that this is complete bull****. Seriously man. Gah, this is just retarded. I just wrote out a bunch of stuff but really I could not careless about these completely made up numbers.[/QUOTE]
I didn't mean for it to sound like I'm trying to say something as fact... I'd say the chest and medial deltoid ratios is all I was trying to show as far as the progression went, and was more wondering what everyone thought of the ratios.