Dumbbell VS straight bar benching.

Though I'm a fan of benching to see my overall strength on the flat bench (275) I'd definitely like to see a flat dumbbell press statistic. Just wondering why we don't see more of it. I see guys benching 300 on the bar but when they hit the dumbbells (correctly) they barely hit the 100's. Myself I stick to the dumbbells 80% of my chest workouts and it seems to give me better results in strength and physique. At 178 lbs I can hit the 110 dumbbells 10X for three sets, and worked up to the 140's for a 1 rep max. I'd like to hear thoughts on dumbbell VS straight bar in terms of pro's and con's of each.

[QUOTE=PROPAINE74;1056860931] I'd like to hear thoughts on dumbbell VS straight bar in terms of pro's and con's of each.[/QUOTE]

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Two different exercises. They are both good for development and to work in both in a periodization schedule over a period of time.

Case in point: If you stick to only one exercise, like what you are alluding to, how can you continue to progress? If you don't progress, you don't get stronger and you don't grow. So, that is great about your 100lbs DB lift, but what's next? ?

[QUOTE=Phattso;1056884971]Two different exercises. They are both good for development and to work in both in a periodization schedule over a period of time.

Case in point: If you stick to only one exercise, like what you are alluding to, how can you continue to progress? If you don't progress, you don't get stronger and you don't grow. So, that is great about your 100lbs DB lift, but what's next? ?[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that input Phattso, I'm thinking a 50-50 split alternating weeks may be the way to go for me.

[QUOTE=Phattso;1056884971]Two different exercises. They are both good for development and to work in both in a periodization schedule over a period of time.

Case in point: If you stick to only one exercise, like what you are alluding to, how can you continue to progress? If you don't progress, you don't get stronger and you don't grow. So, that is great about your 100lbs DB lift, but what's next? ?[/QUOTE]

105 lbs DBS or more sets reps/sets on the DBS would be next? I mean wouldn't that be progression? Also, not following your example about sticking to one exercise and not progressing. Do you mean just using the same weight or reps/sets every week? I can't imagine using DB press 80% of the time, if gradually increasing weight or reps is stopping anyone from getting stronger.

I like db press for the stretch and range of motion. Too much and it bothers my rc though. I personally prefer the bb bench 90% of the time with some db press thrown in on my second bench day. I have also taked with people who exclusively db press with no bb at all, ever.

I remember reading an article a long time ago about heavy dumbell presses. It basically said that in any given gym, whatever the heaviest dumbells are they will get rarely used. It went on to say that this is a psychological thing and most people are afraid of the biggest dumbells in their gym. It said if the heaviest dumbells in the gym are say 105 lbs, then few would use them but they'd use 100 lbs. If the gym owner bought some addtional dumbells going up to say 120 lbs, you'd start seeing people use up to 115 lbs dumbells. I think it was Steve Reeves or someone like that who wrote the article but it was a long time ago so I can't remember.

Anyway, I took the article to heart when I used to train at a commercial gym and would always make an effort to try and use the heaviest dumbells a gym had. Now I mostly train at home and don't have access to heavy dumbells (I only have adjustable dumbells). So most of the time I just go with a barbell now.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1056889741]105 lbs DBS or more sets reps/sets on the DBS would be next? I mean wouldn't that be progression? Also, not following your example about sticking to one exercise and not progressing. Do you mean just using the same weight or reps/sets every week? I can't imagine using DB press 80% of the time, if gradually increasing weight or reps is stopping anyone from getting stronger.

I like db press for the stretch and range of motion. Too much and it bothers my rc though. I personally prefer the bb bench 90% of the time with some db press thrown in on my second bench day. I have also taked with people who exclusively db press with no bb at all, ever.[/QUOTE]


Jtbny, seems we do about the same amount on the opposite benches, I do feel weaker using the Bar mostly and I'm thinking that progression might speed up dramatically in a 50-50 split between the two. I don't have the RC issues with the DB but sometimes I do with the BB. My strength gains are good on the DB even if I keep the same weight I just shorten rest periods. I'm really interested to know if anyone has done a 50-50 split and the results on overall strength and physique.

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1056889741]105 lbs DBS or more sets reps/sets on the DBS would be next? I mean wouldn't that be progression? Also, not following your example about sticking to one exercise and not progressing. Do you mean just using the same weight or reps/sets every week? I can't imagine using DB press 80% of the time, if gradually increasing weight or reps is stopping anyone from getting stronger.

I like db press for the stretch and range of motion. Too much and it bothers my rc though. I personally prefer the bb bench 90% of the time with some db press thrown in on my second bench day. I have also taked with people who exclusively db press with no bb at all, ever.[/QUOTE]

That is progression. My point is that with one exercise you cannot go to infinity, and that is one of the main purposes of a Periodization program. Sure, progression can be more reps with the same weight or more weight with the same reps. But, if you set your goals for 8 to 10 reps per set, then you cannot progress forever. Also, flat bench and DBs are not the only exercises for chest in Periodization. Could be a machine or several machines. A good reference to what I am trying to explain is DC training (Dog Crap Training). Read on that and it will explain how they define progression and failure.

[QUOTE=Phattso;1056897301]That is progression. My point is that with one exercise you cannot go to infinity, and that is one of the main purposes of a Periodization program. Sure, progression can be more reps with the same weight or more weight with the same reps. But, if you set your goals for 8 to 10 reps per set, then you cannot progress forever. Also, flat bench and DBs are not the only exercises for chest in Periodization. Could be a machine or several machines. A good reference to what I am trying to explain is DC training (Dog Crap Training). Read on that and it will explain how they define progression and failure.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha. I'll take a look at it. Just as a point of reference, I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and have fallen in the camp of keeping it simple by "not majoring in the minors" when it comes to exercises and routines.

[QUOTE=Phattso;1056897301]That is progression. My point is that with one exercise you cannot go to infinity, and that is one of the main purposes of a Periodization program. Sure, progression can be more reps with the same weight or more weight with the same reps. But, if you set your goals for 8 to 10 reps per set, then you cannot progress forever. Also, flat bench and DBs are not the only exercises for chest in Periodization. Could be a machine or several machines. A good reference to what I am trying to explain is DC training (Dog Crap Training). Read on that and it will explain how they define progression and failure.[/QUOTE]


Definitely gonna look into this dog crap training. I'm at a pretty solid level now but I'm in need of a breakout. I never really incorporated machines into the workouts thinking they were not really AS good as free weights or the BB's. ill definitely look into it. Thanks for the suggestion on the DCT!

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1056898001]Gotcha. I'll take a look at it. Just as a point of reference, I'm currently doing 5/3/1 and have fallen in the camp of keeping it simple by "not majoring in the minors" when it comes to exercises and routines.[/QUOTE]

Great. I kind of do a hybrid of DC and it makes you leave the ego at the door. You would be very good at it.

[QUOTE=PROPAINE74;1056899401]Definitely gonna look into this dog crap training. I'm at a pretty solid level now but I'm in need of a breakout. I never really incorporated machines into the workouts thinking they were not really AS good as free weights or the BB's. ill definitely look into it. Thanks for the suggestion on the DCT![/QUOTE]

Good deal. Machines can be very good. Resistance is resistance. Again, it does not mean that you will be on the machine forever - just for a progression period. I was on an incline chest machine for about 8 weeks and also flat bench DBs. After I progressed as far as I could on the DB's, I switched to flat bench. Within one month as of last week I was at 245lbs at 10 reps for 3 sets. Since I got the 10 reps with good form, tomorrow I will add 5lbs and go for 3 sets of 10 at 250lbs. Anyway, this gets your mind into what you are doing, instead of just going through the motions.

Have you ever heard the saying the sum is greater than it's parts?

Although there is one exercise I have found where this is not necessarily true. Rows. I find sometime I can dumbbell row more than half of what I can barbell row.

Incline dumbbell presses are a staple in my chest training and I'm currently at 110lbs for 10 reps on my last set of them. I've been up to as high as 120lbs for 12-15 reps, but I find that kicking them up into place from my knees to be the most difficult part of the movement for me. I always do some sort of barbell press movement (flat, incline, or decline) in my chest training as well.

[QUOTE=PROPAINE74;1056860931]Though I'm a fan of benching to see my overall strength on the flat bench (275) I'd definitely like to see a flat dumbbell press statistic. Just wondering why we don't see more of it. I see guys benching 300 on the bar but when they hit the dumbbells (correctly) they barely hit the 100's.
[/QUOTE]

You answered your own question. That's why you see more guys benching barbells, ie because they move more weight. People here automatically think that's about ego, but it's not necessarily, sometimes there are benefits to choosing the implement with which you can move more weight ( it's not necessarily about ego ).


[QUOTE=PROPAINE74;1056860931]I'd like to hear thoughts on dumbbell VS straight bar in terms of pro's and con's of each.[/QUOTE]

It's a religious debate that's debated here over and over many times with lots of passion but no real benefit comes out of the debate, IMHO, thus I'm passing this time.

If you have shoulder problems, dumbells can be better, as you can control the direction somewhat better than with a bar. Dumbells can also be brought back at a different action and deeper into your sides, stretching the muscle in a different way to a bench press, therefore stimulating and recruiting different muscle fibers to a standard bench.
I also do Decline Benches, as they are better on my shoulders than flat or incline Benches. Even if you don' t have problems Benching,it's good to very the angle you attack your chest for maximum chest development!

[QUOTE=PROPAINE74;1056894661]Jtbny, seems we do about the same amount on the opposite benches, I do feel weaker using the Bar mostly and I'm thinking that progression might speed up dramatically in a 50-50 split between the two. I don't have the RC issues with the DB but sometimes I do with the BB. My strength gains are good on the DB even if I keep the same weight I just shorten rest periods. I'm really interested to know if anyone has done a 50-50 split and the results on overall strength and physique.[/QUOTE]

My guess is you feel weaker with the bar due to the CNS component of the movement not the raw strength component. If you did more benching with a bar I bet it would quickly catch up to your dumbbells. If your feeling RC issues with the bar its likely your form is off, I had some RC issue awhile back and really took a hard look at my form and found plenty of places to fix it. I have 0 RC problem with either movement now.

[QUOTE=scullin;1056892881]I remember reading an article a long time ago about heavy dumbell presses. It basically said that in any given gym, whatever the heaviest dumbells are they will get rarely used. It went on to say that this is a psychological thing and most people are afraid of the biggest dumbells in their gym. It said if the heaviest dumbells in the gym are say 105 lbs, then few would use them but they'd use 100 lbs. If the gym owner bought some addtional dumbells going up to say 120 lbs, you'd start seeing people use up to 115 lbs dumbells. I think it was Steve Reeves or someone like that who wrote the article but it was a long time ago so I can't remember.
[/QUOTE]

That's kind of an odd assumption, I would love to get to the 125's (heaviest in my gym) not scared, just not there strengthwise.

I did DB work almost exclusively for my 1st 5 years so got pretty strong on them. Currently I can press the 110's for about 5 and Monday did 235 x 10 for a couple sets on the BB.

I been doing barbell benches since the new years. Ill change up to dumbbells when i need a change up. Same with flys I change from pec deck to db's.

I love db pressing, but my gym threw out all the heavy DBS when they chased away Phil Pfister and Jon Andersen and their friends. So unless i duct tape them up i rarely go heavy.

Db work under six reps always seemed a waste of time anyway, when I do them its usually ten to twenty reps

I like dumbell presses, but they have their limitations. What I especially like is that I can train to failure on my own. The biggest downsides I find are:
Getting them into position in the first place, especially if heavy enough for low reps.
The jumps in weight. I can adjust a barbell 2.5 kg at a time. In the gym I use, the dumbells go up 5kgs (combined weight) at a time, until the 45kg pair, then the next ones are 50kg. That's a big jump in one go.