Prop Forward Advice

Hi guys,

I'm new here. I've just moved to a different area and wanted to get back into rugby. I stopped playing at the end of last season but hadn't kept up with my fitness since the start of that season as I'd just started uni and found other things to do. I'm in my last year next year and want to make the best account of myself on the pitch for the end of this season and next season especially. I weight 130kg and am 6'2" and not massively fit, strength is ok and has never been a problem. I was wondering if I should try and focus on cardio routines to cut some weight and improve my fitness, if I should work on resistance training or mix both. I guess my aims are pretty simple, reduce fat while maintaining or increasing muscle while improving aerobic and anaerobic fitness for rugby.

Any and all advice welcome.

Thanks

[QUOTE=westondn15;638267833]Hi guys,

I'm new here. I've just moved to a different area and wanted to get back into rugby. I stopped playing at the end of last season but hadn't kept up with my fitness since the start of that season as I'd just started uni and found other things to do. I'm in my last year next year and want to make the best account of myself on the pitch for the end of this season and next season especially. I weight 130kg and am 6'2" and not massively fit, strength is ok and has never been a problem. I was wondering if I should try and focus on cardio routines to cut some weight and improve my fitness, if I should work on resistance training or mix both. I guess my aims are pretty simple, reduce fat while maintaining or increasing muscle while improving aerobic and anaerobic fitness for rugby.

Any and all advice welcome.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

I would suggest you try to lose some weight

If your body fat is high, then you can lift weights to burn fat effectively while gaining some muscle, however, if strength is not a concern for you, and you want the quickest fat loss, try HIIT

High intensity interval training is something i've used for around 8months now, i've lost about 25kg. The good thing too is it will massively improve your cardiovascular fitness, my resting heart rate is only 48 now lol.

It's easy to do aswell, just get on an exercise bike or something, warm up for 5-10mins, then do 30-60 seconds at the highest intensity you can handle, then rest for a minute, and repeat as many times as you can manage, make sure you eat enough so that you don't lose muscle, and thats its. You can also set up a circuit or go for sprints. My favourite is a circuit as follow:
30 secs ar each station, 1 min rest inbetween sets, as many sets as you can handle
Press ups
sit ups
Pull ups
Weighted Lunges
Burpies

It's ****ing tough though lol

[QUOTE=CasinoApe;638326743]If your body fat is high, then you can lift weights to burn fat effectively while gaining some muscle, [/quote]

Um, no.

Fact 1: Excess calories are required to build muscle. You can not build muscle while maintaining a caloric deficit.
Fact2: You can not lose weight while consuming more calories than you burn.

See: 2nd Law of Thermodynamics

[quote]High intensity interval training is something i've used for around 8months now, i've lost about 25kg. The good thing too is it will massively improve your cardiovascular fitness, my resting heart rate is only 48 now lol.

It's easy to do aswell, just get on an exercise bike or something, warm up for 5-10mins, then do 30-60 seconds at the highest intensity you can handle, then rest for a minute, and repeat as many times as you can manage, make sure you eat enough so that you don't lose muscle, and thats its. You can also set up a circuit or go for sprints. My favourite is a circuit as follow:
30 secs ar each station, 1 min rest inbetween sets, as many sets as you can handle
Press ups
sit ups
Pull ups
Weighted Lunges
Burpies

It's ****ing tough though lol[/QUOTE]

That works if you're just a regular gym monkey trying to drop some fat but it's terrible when training for sport. Doing a bunch of burpees, push ups, sit ups, etc would be great if you were in a push up/burpee/sit up contest, but you're not. You're playing rugby which is a very running intensive sport.

For rugby, you have to be able to run for 80 minutes. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter how strong you are. You will be worthless to our team once your legs run out of gas. Your main focus should be fitness before strength.

To achieve this you have to go out and run. I don't care how fast or how far you go. Your goal should be for a set time. Start out by running 30 minutes 3 or 4 times a week. Increase it by 10 minutes each week.

Once you get up to 60 minutes, you can start throwing in some hill sprints, interval sprints, etc. Until that time, you just have to concentrate on being able to keep your legs moving for 60 minutes or so without stopping. I hate to use the word "base" when it comes to this because people think I'm advocating a cardiovascular base, which I'm not. I'm simply stating that if you can't run for a continuous 80 minutes, you can't play 80 minutes of rugby.

I've been designing the strength and fitness programs for my rugby team for years. This is what we do and we are envied by all of the other teams in our league for our fitness.

[QUOTE=lhprop1;638416713]Um, no.

Fact 1: Excess calories are required to build muscle. You can not build muscle while maintaining a caloric deficit.
Fact2: You can not lose weight while consuming more calories than you burn.

See: 2nd Law of Thermodynamics



That works if you're just a regular gym monkey trying to drop some fat but it's terrible when training for sport. Doing a bunch of burpees, push ups, sit ups, etc would be great if you were in a push up/burpee/sit up contest, but you're not. You're playing rugby which is a very running intensive sport.

For rugby, you have to be able to run for 80 minutes. If you can't do that, it doesn't matter how strong you are. You will be worthless to our team once your legs run out of gas. Your main focus should be fitness before strength.

To achieve this you have to go out and run. I don't care how fast or how far you go. Your goal should be for a set time. Start out by running 30 minutes 3 or 4 times a week. Increase it by 10 minutes each week.

Once you get up to 60 minutes, you can start throwing in some hill sprints, interval sprints, etc. Until that time, you just have to concentrate on being able to keep your legs moving for 60 minutes or so without stopping. I hate to use the word "base" when it comes to this because people think I'm advocating a cardiovascular base, which I'm not. I'm simply stating that if you can't run for a continuous 80 minutes, you can't play 80 minutes of rugby.

I've been designing the strength and fitness programs for my rugby team for years. This is what we do and we are envied by all of the other teams in our league for our fitness.[/QUOTE]

Thats utter tripe! Rugby is a game of 80 minutes which i play every week, less than 40 minutes of that is actual running! There is more jogging, sprinting, strength based activities, set pieces, lifting, pushing - Not running

The best way to get fit for rugby will be attend rugby practices if you can 2 x a week and start a programme like starting strength 2 x a week.
Or do 2 x days of interval training and 2 x whole body strength training.

What ever way you look at it the best way to loose weight is your diet, there is a lot of articles on here about how to get strong and fit for rugby but interval sprints seems to be one of the best ways to go. Type rugby fitness into google and have a look at some of the conditioning programmes on there.

Hope that helps

love me some good arguments.

tell you what as a prop it really depends on how your team plays and the style you need to follow. lets face it a prop is just that- a tool to use for the team or a prop. ill give two different examples; the latter pisses me off cuz i hate training this way as it interferes with my discus training but anyways...

when i first started at college life was simple. we were a smash mouth team with big guys everywhere. our smallest forward was a 210 ex-marine fresh from Iraq. me and the other prop weighed a total of 550lbs and squated collectively over double that. our 2nds were monsters (both about 6'3 225-240) and even our flanks were solid but conditioned. our backs were silly too. they were all football walk-on rejects with some serious physical ability but better yet they were big. none were under 175 and the lighter ones extrememly quick. what we didnt have though was endurance. big guys just run out of gas. the key was our pod offense where we roamed in small packs and just rucked in, protected the ball, and moved it to the next pack. now this isnt pro-level rugby but at that level it worked and we even worked over some more experienced mens teams who just couldnt handle how physical we were. no matter how skilled or technical we just eventually overwhelmed them. we ended up finishing #16 that year in the country.

now as far as MY training went it was simple. very anearobic base with a lot of power style movements mixed in with strongman training. essentially i had a speed day (overspeed treadmill, snatch work, single leg work, etc) a power day (tire flips, sled drags, med ball throws and the like) and a agility/lateral day (cone work, ladders, multi-direction movement) but very little strict conditioning work. I just didnt need to because of the way we played. Smash, protect, jog, run, walk, run again, ****in hit something hard, repeat. However, all the volume i did in the off season (3 days leg training) served as my conditioning by itself. I felt I was in the best shape of my life and had a great season. Still salty I didnt score any tries but everytime I touched the ball Id attract the attention of half the other damn team. So I was forced to turn, maul, and then let someone else get the ball in...life of a prop.

ANYWAYS- fast forward to my new team, a mens club, and now everythings changed. We move the ball around, lot of fast skilled older players, and Im the biggest one on the team by a good 50lbs. I am literally just the big guy to smash the ball into a pile of bodies just to open up some space since I usually will draw 3-5 guys in to tackle me (im pretty stubborn to fall). So now my trainings different. I need to be more conditioned and to be able to run with the backs since we dont have a very large or dedicated pack. Our pack looks more like just some slightly larger backs to be honest. Dont get me wrong I still train like I do since track is my first love but now I swim more (id rather swim that run distance) and add in more GPP at the end of more workouts. Recent addition is my battling ropes set. Definite love/hate relationship going on with those.

Aight theres my rant.

tl;dr- look at what your new teams strengths and weakness are and try to accomodate the teams play style. If theyre fast and mobile- drop weight and make yourself fast and mobile. If they are a hitting team- join an MMA club and get to lifting heavy =)

[QUOTE=Rugby_Dog;638798713]Thats utter tripe! Rugby is a game of 80 minutes which i play every week, less than 40 minutes of that is actual running! There is more jogging, sprinting, strength based activities, set pieces, lifting, pushing - Not running[/quote]

Yes, but you still have to be able to move your legs in the 80th minute. Muscular endurance is the most important factor in getting fit for rugby, not cardiovascular endurance. That comes easy.

[quote]The best way to get fit for rugby will be attend rugby practices if you can 2 x a week and start a programme like starting strength 2 x a week.
Or do 2 x days of interval training and 2 x whole body strength training.[/quote]

If you think you can get fit by just attending practice or by simply doing crossfit-type interval training, you're not very prepared and probably don't contribute much to your team in the latter stages of the match.

I wasn't advocating going out and training for marathon, I was telling him to go out and run so his legs would get used to the strain. Once he gets some endurance in his legs and his bones, muscles, and connective tissue are able to handle the prolonged strain, then he can throw in some more rugby specific things like sprints and some misc exercises and stuff.

If you look at what the OP wrote, he's 130kg. Starting Strength 2x a week wouldn't be bad if it's the end of the season and you have the whole offseason to prepare, but if the season fast approaching, fitness should be the primary concern. Strength training is good, but without enough time, practical, usable strength gains are going to be minimal.

[quote=xxtwistedxx]ANYWAYS- fast forward to my new team, a mens club, and now everythings changed. We move the ball around, lot of fast skilled older players, and Im the biggest one on the team by a good 50lbs. I am literally just the big guy to smash the ball into a pile of bodies just to open up some space since I usually will draw 3-5 guys in to tackle me (im pretty stubborn to fall). So now my trainings different. I need to be more conditioned and to be able to run with the backs since we dont have a very large or dedicated pack. Our pack looks more like just some slightly larger backs to be honest. Dont get me wrong I still train like I do since track is my first love but now I swim more (id rather swim that run distance) and add in more GPP at the end of more workouts. Recent addition is my battling ropes set. Definite love/hate relationship going on with those. [/quote]

This is my role. I'm a fast, fit prop on an extremely fast and fit team. In open play, I ruck, I run with the back line, etc. Our entire pack is expected to do the same. In the modern game, a big team of brutes is going to get demolished by a faster fitter team 99% of the time. To be competitive, you have to be fit and you have to be fast.

[QUOTE=lhprop1;638833603]Yes, but you still have to be able to move your legs in the 80th minute. Muscular endurance is the most important factor in getting fit for rugby, not cardiovascular endurance. That comes easy.



If you think you can get fit by just attending practice or by simply doing crossfit-type interval training, you're not very prepared and probably don't contribute much to your team in the latter stages of the match.

I wasn't advocating going out and training for marathon, I was telling him to go out and run so his legs would get used to the strain. Once he gets some endurance in his legs and his bones, muscles, and connective tissue are able to handle the prolonged strain, then he can throw in some more rugby specific things like sprints and some misc exercises and stuff.

If you look at what the OP wrote, he's 130kg. Starting Strength 2x a week wouldn't be bad if it's the end of the season and you have the whole offseason to prepare, but if the season fast approaching, fitness should be the primary concern. Strength training is good, but without enough time, practical, usable strength gains are going to be minimal.



This is my role. I'm a fast, fit prop on an extremely fast and fit team. In open play, I ruck, I run with the back line, etc. Our entire pack is expected to do the same. In the modern game, a big team of brutes is going to get demolished by a faster fitter team 99% of the time. To be competitive, you have to be fit and you have to be fast.[/QUOTE]

I do contribute alot and myslef am fit and fast but in a normal game of rugby you only run a total of less than 40 minutes. All i do to train fitness is club practises which does involve sprint work and my own interval rowing training which out of all the training i have tries gives the best fitness levels needed for a forward. If you check out any S&C coaches for rugby they all say interval training is whats best as it replicates the in game conditions.

Long distance runs are a thing of the past for rugby players. A few in pre-season but we usually play football or touch with games in it to get the fitness for that.

But totally agree about the club comments, see what wtyle they play and fit into that while playing your strenghts.

[QUOTE=Rugby_Dog;639402853]Long distance runs are a thing of the past for rugby players. A few in pre-season but we usually play football or touch with games in it to get the fitness for that. [/QUOTE]

I think we're in more agreement than you realize. This guy made it sound like he's out of shape and trying to get back into it. He has to get his legs under him before he starts the season. Simply doing intervals isn't going to do it if he has a low level of muscular endurance right now. Timed runs wil help build up his muscular endurance and his resistance to lactic acid. Once he has that, the he will benefit from interval work.

[QUOTE=lhprop1;639415753]I think we're in more agreement than you realize. This guy made it sound like he's out of shape and trying to get back into it. He has to get his legs under him before he starts the season. Simply doing intervals isn't going to do it if he has a low level of muscular endurance right now. Timed runs wil help build up his muscular endurance and his resistance to lactic acid. Once he has that, the he will benefit from interval work.[/QUOTE]

now if only OP would reply instead of us having to try and guess what the situation is....

Bro, I would drop some weight, trust me you will play some much better at 110kg than at 130kg.

Lift weights AND run, oh and get flexible, getting somewhat flexible helped me so much.