Best way to kill estrogen, advice needed

Simply put: how can I kill as much of my estrogen as possible? No matter if it gets my test levels down temporarily.

I need to kill my existing gyno I didn't notice until too late. It is very small (<1 inch) and I got delayed from epistane.

Right now I got tamoxiphen and ATD at hand. To have a maximum gyno reversal effect I was been thinking something along the lines of this:

week tamoxiphen / ATD
----- -------
1 20-40mg / 75-100mg
2 20mg / 50mg
3 20mg / 25mg
4 20mg / -

I'm a bit afraid of the rebound effect since I seem to be gyno prone.

Any help, opinions and recommendations are welcome. Should I choose other substances? I have only access to OTC stuff. What about the dosages? And the duration?

I hope someone who new ATD could know to what extent it's benecifial to increase the daily amount of ATD, in order to have maximal estrogen suppression.

letro

[QUOTE=Big Donkey;310706981]letro[/QUOTE]

This^^ Letro can eliminate up to 98% of estrogen levels...doing so will hammer your test levels but if you want a no mercy approach..letro will do the job.

I dont have access to letro, my mistake.

I gotta try and make it work with OTC. That's why I'd like to know more about ATD. Been thru the studies but none of them said a thing about amounts used with human and percentages of suppression.

I've already started a severe diet losing all the fat I can and try to do my best to promote lower estrogens in my body.

Killing estrogen won't automatically stop/kill gyno FYI.

Doing anything severe (dieting or supplement wise) will proabably just make it worse.

[QUOTE=pexx;310631721]Simply put: how can I kill as much of my estrogen as possible? [/QUOTE]

[Img]http://www.protectmystaff.co.uk/users/www.trevorgilbert.com/upload/knife%20attack.jpg[/Img]

:eek:

[QUOTE=haiz69;310713781]Killing estrogen won't automatically stop/kill gyno FYI.

Doing anything severe (dieting or supplement wise) will proabably just make it worse.[/QUOTE]

This is true also..I was only addressing the first question of what will kill estrogen...most existing gyno(depending on how long) cannot be cured by much other than surgery.

In all seriousness...

[B]Reduce Alcohol Consumption[/B]
Estrogen is metabolized or broken down by the liver. Alcohol consumption can impair liver function which makes it difficult for the liver to properly metabolize estrogen. This can allow higher levels of estrogen to build up in the body. A study carried out in postmenopausal women on hormone therapy found that those who used moderate amounts of alcohol had higher estrogen levels than those who abstained from alcohol use. If you're consuming more than one alcoholic drink per day, make an effort to cut back. Ideally, if you suffer from estrogen dominance, completely avoid alcohol.

[B]Go Organic[/B]
There are a variety of chemicals and pesticides found in our food and drink that exert estrogen like activity when absorbed into the body. These include pesticides found on non-organic fruits and vegetables as well as hormones found in meat and poultry. One way to avoid exposure to these exogenous estrogens is to purchase organic fruits and vegetables and cut back on meat consumption.

[B]Limit Dairy Products[/B]
Cow's milk is another source of exogenous estrogens. Ganmaa, a physician and scientist at the Harvard School of Public Health states that dairy milk accounts for up to eighty percent of the estrogens consumed. This may stem from the fact that cows are milked frequently during pregnancy when estrogen levels are their highest. These estrogens end up in the milk supply and can promote growth of fibroid tumors of the uterus and stimulate breast tissue, potentially increasing the risk of certain types of both benign and malignant breast disease. One solution? Substitute a non-dairy milk such as almond or rice milk.

[B]Increase Fiber Intake[/B]
A high intake of soluble and insoluble fiber in the diet can help to lower estrogen levels according to a variety of studies. Estrogens are eliminated from the body when they're bound to bile acids produced by the liver. These bile acids are dumped into the intestine during digestion. Fiber then binds to and promotes excretion of the bile acids thus flushing the body of the bound estrogens. It appears that both soluble and insoluble fiber sources such as vegetables and whole grains appear to lower estrogen levels. Adding more high fiber vegetables and whole grains such as wheat bran to your diet may help to offset some of the effects of estrogen dominance.

[B]Exercise[/B]
A regular program of moderate to high intensity exercise can lower estrogen levels according to a study carried out at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Post menopausal women who took part in a moderately intense exercise session five days a week saw their estrogen levels drop by seven percent. Those who only did stretching exercises showed no change in their estrogen levels. In addition to its many other health benefits, exercise appears to be an important tool for maintaining normal estrogen levels.

A final way to lower estrogen levels is to maintain a healthy body weight. Women who carry around excess fat tend to have higher estrogen levels. A combination of moderate intensity exercise and a reduction in calories to promote fat loss can be quite effective in reducing the effects of estrogen dominance.

If you're concerned about the potential negative effects of high estrogen levels, taking these few steps may help to lower your risk of estrogen related health problems.

[B]DIET[/B]

* Eliminate sugar, white flour, and refined foods.

* Eliminate methyl xanthines such as coffee, tea, chocolate, colas and other foods or beverages that contain caffeine.

* Eliminate red meat and fowl. Organically raised fowl is OK.

* Decrease fats, especially animal fats. Use instead unsaturated fats such as those in cold pressed vegetable oils.

* Increase foods found in the cabbage family such as cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, etc. As the Indole 3 Carbinole helps aid in the detoxification of estrogen to a less active form.

* Decrease dairy products such as milk, cheese, cream, etc.. This helps maximize thyroid function.

* Increase complex carbohydrates such as vegetables, whole grains, etc..

* Increase the consumption of garlic and onions.

* Be sure you are taking adequate amounts of selenium, iodine, beta-carotene and vitamins A, C and E. Consult your clinician to determine this.

^^^ nice post

That knife really blew me :) Thanks a lot for the info.

I drink a lot of milk so that is dropped. Coffee intake is dropped. Dropping red meat and fowl leaves me just with fish... and protein shakes.

Fat does procude extra estrogen and that I don't want happening. Being on lower carbs should elevate GH levels which I read might assist in getting rid of gyno. Do you agree on these theories?

And I'll do jogging twice a week, gym 4-5 times a week. I was also thinking that maybe training so that it does not promote higher testosterone level might be good now too? Since T -> E2.

[QUOTE=pexx;310722441]That knife really blew me :) Thanks a lot for the info.

I drink a lot of milk so that is dropped. Coffee intake is dropped. Dropping red meat and fowl leaves me just with fish... and protein shakes.

Fat does procude extra estrogen and that I don't want happening. Being on lower carbs should elevate GH levels which I read might assist in getting rid of gyno. Do you agree on these theories?

And I'll do jogging twice a week, gym 4-5 times a week. I was also thinking that maybe training so that it does not promote higher testosterone level might be good now too? Since T -> E2.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't drop meat totally. Milk and the other things are worse. One thing you may want to look for in the meat section meats from Grass fed cows, organic, etc....much better for you. I wouldnt recommend giving up MEAT and CHICKEN....just make some steps like cutting dairy and coffee and working out consistently.

Bump tamox up to 60mg until you see signs of improvement(if you do). Reduce to 40 for a week and then to 20 for a week.

Ok we got organic meat, beef and lamb available here.

Tamox to 60mg / day? I was just thinking if the ATD cuts my estrogens down will extra Nolva do any good?

But big big thanks for your tips guys. I'm in debt to you.

[QUOTE=pexx;310727641]Ok we got organic meat, beef and lamb available here.

Tamox to 60mg / day? I was just thinking if the ATD cuts my estrogens down will extra Nolva do any good?[/QUOTE]

ATD/Nolva are inhibitors they wont necessarily kill your estro production. SOME people have had results with the 60/40/20/20 protocol or somethin close to that but ive seen as high as 80 reduced down. Look around for letro thats whats ur best bet...

Holy crap I never know that dairy products have that much to do with excess estrogen! All my life I've been drinking lots of milk. From now on it's water to me.

Just one example of many: [url]http://www.inspire.com/groups/advanced-breast-cancer/discussion/estrogens-in-dairy/[/url]

if you got nolva how are you not able to get letro? Just a question, i don't think you can get nolva over the counter

also do you have a hard lump under the nip gyno, or a leaky nipple gyno?

It's a harder lump under the nipple, sized around 1 inch.

Nipples are normal although they were sore and more puffy before I started nolva. Both the lumps and nipples were sore and a bit swollen I think.

The place I got nolva from had no letro. At least they did not recognize the name... maybe it was on a different brand.

[QUOTE=pexx;310754601]It's a harder lump under the nipple, sized around 1 inch.

Nipples are normal although they were sore and more puffy before I started nolva. Both the lumps and nipples were sore and a bit swollen I think.

The place I got nolva from had no letro. At least they did not recognize the name... maybe it was on a different brand.[/QUOTE]

Letro is an AI and Nolva is a SERM only reason I ask, had some rebound off havoc and letro killed followed by nolva to reduce rebound. They may have Exemenestane if they don't have letro........it's not as strong but still pretty good, if yuo are in the US i know some good sites to order from, they are legit too......let me know

I'm not in US but thanks. Took my first 50mg of ATD, hopefully I see some positive changes in next few days.

Btw I tried doing epistane 10mg a day before I received my tamox. I seemed to make things worse. Was it too little dosage? I remember earlier 30mg/day did dry me up and therefore seemed to be antiestrogenic.

[url]http://www.biolreprod.org/cgi/reprint/28/3/636.pdf[/url]

Update: taken 100mg of ATD for 2 days now with 40mg of nolva. Gynos have shrunk a bit and become softer. And I feel a bit like ****... aswell as some joint pain. Countering with glucosamine and other stuff that might make me feel better.

Fluids came out nicely when I started the ATD. Some indication that estrogens have been lowered.

If you need organic food look for an organic food store around you, such as Whole foods.

Thanks. We got pretty good amount of organic food in our local supermarket. Just got organic beef from there.

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