the truth about natty lifting...

[QUOTE=kebabdelight;918265723]these guys were probably like the only ones on earth with a body like that at that time lol[/QUOTE]
Yes of course they were. But that doesn't change the fact that it IS possible. Only a tiny portion of the population lifts and trains properly with adequate nutrition and rest, and that portion was even smaller in the 30's-50's. With training 70 years more advanced than it was in their day I really don't look at it to be that unfeasible to reach naturally. So many natty's are self delusional, weak willed, and blame all their lack of progress on their lack of hormones. Pathetic in my opinion.

[QUOTE=Mikesullyy;918261363]The picture of John Grimek (Right) was somewhere between 1939-1949, and the picture of Clarence Ross was between 1940-1950.
Another pic of Ross's Epic physique. He was called the "King of bodybuilders'
[img]http://www.ifbb.com/reports/images/ross2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

synthetic testosterone was created in 1935 so these guys could have been using by that time period

You can only choose 2: thick joocy solid

[QUOTE=iliketojuggle;918274653]synthetic testosterone was created in 1935 so these guys could have been using by that time period[/QUOTE]

This. I don't care if those were taken in the 1600s. They are not natural

I guess it's time to google roids.

[QUOTE=iliketojuggle;918274653]synthetic testosterone was created in 1935 so these guys could have been using by that time period[/QUOTE]

Come on, dont you people give up ever?

Mikesully couldnt be more spot on with all his posts.

What do you class as big?

Someone asked if on tech you can get strength without size (or vise versa, i forget). I'm new to this, just started learning about it a few months ago so maybe there's mistakes...

The same muscle building theories all still apply even at ridiculous doses. Lets look, androgens:

1. activate the PI3k-AKT-mTOR-p70s6k.. protein synthesis pathway
2. are highest concentrated at satellite cells (stem cells on muscle cells).

When you lift big, it does rupture the muscle cell. The satellite cell activates and gloms onto the muscle cell and repairs it. Some cells are limited and can't grow any more (hit their maximum myonuclear domain size). They can't add anymore myosin/actin motor units because there isn't any room. So rupturing with lifting, and repairing with the satellite cell allows the muscle cell to house more actin/myosin motor units.

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lTumzUxWgeQ/TrliIIx75tI/AAAAAAAACcs/xYfbX1DXr4c/s1600/muscles%255B1%255D.jpg[/img]

So if you have low androgens, you aren't enlarging your domain size and limited to whatever little satellite activity you have (from the small amounts of testosterone binding to the many satellite cells putting up androgen receptors, but only some will be proliferated). Your domains will be limited to their current size unless they get one of the lucky few satellite cells, and protein synthesis won't be as active as when testosterone is helping AKT stay active (which also wards off cell death, by deactivating myostatin's downstream effects (smad3))

a good article on how testosterone works
[url]http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/01/intermittent-thoughts-on-building_08.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Mikesullyy;918229923]What I've accomplished in just over 2 years of lifting naturally..

[img]http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2012/07/16/51486581/gallerypic/1njRLYeWZcq9Zv7pgCJbLsh3hamQ489e.jpeg[/img] [img]http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/559253_401199376603128_1575591773_n.jpg[/img]
[img]http://imagecdn.bodybuilding.com/img/user_images/growable/2012/07/16/51486581/progresspic/15fjloKHoAv5rbBMuCNXDb0bw0s6qB736.jpeg[/img]

I honestly think that its VERY possible to achieve an incredible physique naturally. All the whiners need to realize that there is only a certain level of mass that IS achievable naturally. However it is not just mass that makes a bodybuilder. More than anything it is an equilibrium of Mass, symmetry, leanness, and also to an extent genetics. Not everyone can achieve their idea of a perfect physique. But everyone can sure as hell build a damn better body than they have now.[/QUOTE]

It's not debatable that yes, I can have as better body, I think we're just talking about goal physiques. I think a lot of this has to do with youth though. The younger you started lifting the better IMO as you have more time to pay attention to diet and training. As well as playing sports, etc. I started with nothing, underweight, no muscle mass except from running and leg training for track, it was bad. For me, diet has been the hardest part since I've been underweight for so long it's hard as hell to push myself to eat more food. I do believe that if you're lifting a lot though and following a good program and have a good diet you can make some great progress. Just I don't like how everyone thinks you can have some godlike physique after 1 year of lifting or two.

inb4 naturalgrahm4

There are plenty of things you can do besides sterons that make a signifcant difference. This article talks about satellite cells (muscle stem cells) that repair muscle cells. In order for your pool of available cells to be replenished, going to have to do some HIIT

"HIT Your Satellite Cells to Increase Your Gains! Only High Intensity "Cardio" Exercise Will Fuel Your Satellite Cell Pool and Set You Up For Future Muscle Growth." [url]http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/11/hit-your-sattelite-cells-to-increase.html[/url]

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D2ff8jXZX1Q/TrlWJI7kGMI/AAAAAAAACcc/v5HPPZ3HrK4/s1600/satelliteCount.PNG[/img]


This next article talks about how sub maximal muscle work reduces inflammation and swelling during the full out lift session and improves repair. Arnold pioneered it by posing each day.

"Two Max. Isometric Contractions Reduce Muscle Damage and Promote Regeneration Before You Even Hit the Gym! Plus: How to Add 0.5 Inch to Your Biceps in 6 Minutes! " [url]http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2012/05/two-max-isometric-contractions-reduce.html[/url]

[img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cMGdR3ofklg/T7zxdgngMUI/AAAAAAAAEp4/6eI0Xpy9P78/s1600/a.PNG[/img]
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wiZlML3FirQ/T7z3xb-jvlI/AAAAAAAAEqE/sGXShL34n9s/s1600/a.PNG[/img]

[QUOTE=johnnycash123;918245423]Just NO, you realise they give tren to cows because it is the most effective mass building hormone created thus far.[/QUOTE]

they give tren to cows because it is an excellent nutrient partitioner. it improves feed efficiency which mean the nutrients go to the right places. it increases the lean mass of the cows while using the same food. so yes it is a very effective mass builder. however if you dont eat as many calories because you are trying to stay within a weight class or whatever and use tren, you can still gain strength. tren is extremely androgenic which means it has high potential for strength gains. go reread my post if you still dont understand that.

[QUOTE=Money Shot;918257093]Is there a relaxed pic of him where he isn't holding a pull up bar?[/QUOTE]

[youtube]M9OrTrsf34A[/youtube]
[youtube]jXyaZNYEpH8[/youtube]
[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs492.ash2/76497_452991100775_685660775_5938425_3505763_n.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Brofessional;918343363][youtube]M9OrTrsf34A[/youtube]

[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs492.ash2/76497_452991100775_685660775_5938425_3505763_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

not relaxed he is pumped up in that picture at the gym lols probably pumped up at his house in the video after he got back from the gym too

[QUOTE=iliketojuggle;918344923]not relaxed he is pumped up in that picture at the gym lols probably pumped up at his house in the video after he got back from the gym too[/QUOTE]

not pumped in vid 1

if people like doug miller etc are natty then well i must be doing something extremely wrong, it cant be possible to look like that natty, it just cant.

isnt Rsdarnia also tall as phuck?

I always thought those "pre-steroid era" bodybuilders were simply exposed to less estrogenic components. They lived on diets of lots of fresh ORGANIC fruits and veggies, grass-fed beef raised naturally, etc. In today's age, we simply don't have that luxury. Lots of the stuff we put in our bodies is so unnatural to the human that it causes harmful affects ranging beyond our scope of immediate recognition, deep down to the cellular level. Remember, almost everything we put in our body is broken down into components that our body will use to refuel, rebuild, process and function. When 30% of the chicken breast we are choking down is comprised of additives and "fluff", protein powder we buy is only a fraction of what is says and incomparable to the real thing, and the beef we eat and milk we drink is entirely unnatural, it is no surprise that we lack the proper nutrition an active male human being needs to accelerate growth. Our hormone levels are probably a byproduct of this change in lifestyle.
/rant

[QUOTE=Brofessional;918343363][youtube]M9OrTrsf34A[/youtube]
[youtube]jXyaZNYEpH8[/youtube]
[img]http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs492.ash2/76497_452991100775_685660775_5938425_3505763_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Now I am just getting annoyed. That guy is juiced up big time. enough of this crap. too many people are believing the words that come out of their mouths

[QUOTE=BTBAM;918349853]I always thought those "pre-steroid era" bodybuilders were simply exposed to less estrogenic components. They lived on diets of lots of fresh ORGANIC fruits and veggies, grass-fed beef raised naturally, etc. In today's age, we simply don't have that luxury. Lots of the stuff we put in our bodies is so unnatural to the human that it causes harmful affects ranging beyond our scope of immediate recognition, deep down to the cellular level. Remember, almost everything we put in our body is broken down into components that our body will use to refuel, rebuild, process and function. When 30% of the chicken breast we are choking down is comprised of additives and "fluff", protein powder we buy is only a fraction of what is says and incomparable to the real thing, and the beef we eat and milk we drink is entirely unnatural, it is no surprise that we lack the proper nutrition an active male human being needs to accelerate growth. Our hormone levels are probably a byproduct of this change in lifestyle.
/rant[/QUOTE]

please tell me you are trolling about the part about people looking different due to the environment and food choices

[QUOTE=BTBAM;918349853]I always thought those "pre-steroid era" bodybuilders were simply exposed to less estrogenic components. They lived on diets of lots of fresh ORGANIC fruits and veggies, grass-fed beef raised naturally, etc. In today's age, we simply don't have that luxury. Lots of the stuff we put in our bodies is so unnatural to the human that it causes harmful affects ranging beyond our scope of immediate recognition, deep down to the cellular level. Remember, almost everything we put in our body is broken down into components that our body will use to refuel, rebuild, process and function. When 30% of the chicken breast we are choking down is comprised of additives and "fluff", protein powder we buy is only a fraction of what is says and incomparable to the real thing, and the beef we eat and milk we drink is entirely unnatural, it is no surprise that we lack the proper nutrition an active male human being needs to accelerate growth. Our hormone levels are probably a byproduct of this change in lifestyle.
/rant[/QUOTE]

Truth

Average test levels then were definitely higher than the average these days

Leroy Colbert was born May 9, 1933. Anabolic steroids were first isolated, identified, and synthesized in the 1930s. Dr. John Ziegler pioneered its athletic use as an aid to muscle growth by bodybuilders, administering it to U.S. weightlifting champion Bill March of the York Barbell club in 1959 when he was the physician to the U.S. Weightlifting team.

At the age of 20 (1953), Leroy was the owner of 19" arms. Eventually his cannons reached 21". Considering the [b]very first[/b] American use of steroids occurred in 1959, it can be assumed Leroy Colbert completely built his arms without the use of dat dere.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vxAqp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/e7qyO.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Bn6Gn.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Money Shot;918351003]Now I am just getting annoyed. That guy is juiced up big time. enough of this crap. too many people are believing the words that come out of their mouths
[/QUOTE]

If it's any consolation he's probably the lightest guy in this thread (when considering height). He's 179lbs @ 6'2 in the first vid and that was taken a couple weeks ago.

[QUOTE=Brofessional;918353563]If it's any consolation he's probably the lightest guy in this thread (when considering height). He's 179lbs @ 6'2 in the first vid and that was taken a couple weeks ago.[/QUOTE]

he is much bigger than that in the last pic

I am at once massive, sculpted and detailed. From all and any angle, I am the perfect natural male specimen.

Butttttt......you can get huge in normal people standards, and whereever you go theres mostly normal people lol

Being huge in the bodybuilding world is considered pretty weird in normal society, I know I for one would rather be considered elite by the general population and small by steroid users opposed to a freak druggy to general pop and 'look great' to steroid using bodybuilders.


but what do I know....I'm 'small' lol.

[QUOTE=angryguywalking;917077943]Not if you know what you're doing, and apply it for a couple years.

Ex. Josh Hyaduck, Jim Cordova, rsardinia, etc[/QUOTE]

You forgot Jason Genova (sp?).

[QUOTE=Money Shot;918351003]Now I am just getting annoyed. That guy is juiced up big time. enough of this crap. too many people are believing the words that come out of their mouths

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Money Shot;918354203]he is much bigger than that in the last pic[/QUOTE]

I lol'd. Yes I was much bigger in that pic, around mid 190s low 200s in my offseason.

[QUOTE=bailey1106;918278403]Come on, dont you people give up ever?

Mikesully couldnt be more spot on with all his posts.[/QUOTE]

5'8" @ 215lbs and 19 years old. Low BF% and a gear defender.......


Clearly just another natty that has great genetics, work ethic in the gym and a fantastic diet.



The rest of who don't succeed, don't have good genetics, work ethic in the gym or diet.





:D Always the same story.

[QUOTE=Ghosting;918368793]5'8" @ 215lbs and 19 years old. Low BF% and a gear defender.......
[/QUOTE]

lols I thought the same thing guy is clearly a bser

[QUOTE=Rsardinia;918366893]I lol'd. Yes I was much bigger in that pic, around mid 190s low 200s in my offseason.[/QUOTE]

I dunno maybe I'm wrong. I just clicked the videos of you posing. 3rd pic you obviously have a pump. I still think you are on something but not positive. btw, you saying you are natural means nothing to me. Everyone says they aren't