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Grape Seed Extract
Hey guys I was at my local supp store and they had this on sale so I picked some up. I have seen peopla on here saying that it is a good anti-estrogen. Is this true and what is the main reason for supping with it? Did I waste my money or can I benefit from supping with it? Thanks
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[QUOTE=bigguy66;42543871]Hey guys I was at my local supp store and they had this on sale so I picked some up. I have seen peopla on here saying that it is a good anti-estrogen. Is this true and what is the main reason for supping with it? Did I waste my money or can I benefit from supping with it? Thanks[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the anti-estrogen impact, but I do know that it's a good [i]anti-oxidant[/i]. So no, it's not a waste of money (but that depends on what else you are taking too).
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[QUOTE=bigguy66;42543871]Hey guys I was at my local supp store and they had this on sale so I picked some up. I have seen peopla on here saying that it is a good anti-estrogen. Is this true and what is the main reason for supping with it? Did I waste my money or can I benefit from supping with it? Thanks[/QUOTE]
I cannot speak highly enough about grape seed extract. It's a powerfull antioxidant as well as a [U]very[/U] effective way to attenuate inflammation.
GSE is also a potent suppressor of aromatase expression amongst other things.
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[QUOTE=NO HYPE;42577631]I cannot speak highly enough about grape seed extract. It's a powerfull antioxidant as well as a [U]very[/U] effective way to attenuate inflammation.
GSE is also a potent suppressor of aromatase expression amongst other things.[/QUOTE]
How much do you reccomend I take a day? And when, just in the morning, etc? Thanks
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[QUOTE=bigguy66;42579261]How much do you reccomend I take a day? And when, just in the morning, etc? Thanks[/QUOTE]
I take anywhere between 250-500 mg a day (but I am using it to attenuate inflammation), usually taken twice.
I would say around 250 mg a day would be sufficient for most.
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[QUOTE=NO HYPE;42587361]I take anywhere between 250-500 mg a day (but I am using it to attenuate inflammation), usually taken twice.
I would say around 250 mg a day would be sufficient for most.[/QUOTE]
Do you happen to know the reasoning behind some of the dosing recommendations that have the dosing higher initially, then reduced after a period of time?
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[QUOTE=in10city;42667051]Do you happen to know the reasoning behind some of the dosing recommendations that have the dosing higher initially, then reduced after a period of time?[/QUOTE]
No.... but if you happen to find out why, could you please update this thread?
I would like to hear the reasoning behind that theory. :)
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It's most effective when taken with other anti-estrogenic ingredients.
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[QUOTE=NO HYPE;42673971]No.... but if you happen to find out why, could you please update this thread?
I would like to hear the reasoning behind that theory. :)[/QUOTE]
The only "bro-science" reasoning I've been able to find is that an initial loading phase is used to saturate the tissues with the Oligomeric Proanthocyanidins. It's water-soluble though... :confused:
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[QUOTE=LJ57;42674461]It's most effective when taken with other anti-estrogenic ingredients.[/QUOTE]
I suggest taking it with resveratrol - this excellent NOW product contains grape seed extract, resveratrol and green tea extract at a very reasonable price;
[url=http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/nr.html][b][size=2][color=purple]NOW Natural Resveratrol[/color][/size][/b][/url]
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Nice i need to get my hands on some anti's... How much does that grape seed cost BTW?
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[QUOTE=sonicology;42691981]I suggest taking it with resveratrol - this excellent NOW product contains grape seed extract, resveratrol and green tea extract at a very reasonable price;
[url=http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/nr.html][b][size=2][color=purple]NOW Natural Resveratrol[/color][/size][/b][/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks!
[QUOTE=dpihitithard;42799911]Nice i need to get my hands on some anti's... How much does that grape seed cost BTW?[/QUOTE]
I got mine for $8 for 100 150mg tabs
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[QUOTE=LJ57;42674461]It's most effective when taken with other anti-estrogenic ingredients.[/QUOTE]
Like what?
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An article I found with the uncited load-maintenance dose recommendation as well as GSE's other benefits including the AE effects ... [url=http://www.xtremebodyshop.com/articles/articles05/supplements/grapeseed.html]Grape Expectations[/url] ([url=http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/63/23/8516]Suppression of Estrogen Biosynthesis by Procyanidin Dimers in Red Wine and Grape Seeds[/url]) .
Besides the "bro-science" reason, the dosing recommendation origin was probably born in part from research done by Bagchi with higher amounts and the maintenance weight-dose recommendation he's given.
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Guys I bought GSE and the bottle says to take two capsules daily (100 mg) but is it OK if I take about 6-8 capsules (300-400 mg) to reduce inflamation?
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[QUOTE=Catch39;43362281]Guys I bought GSE and the bottle says to take two capsules daily (100 mg) but is it OK if I take about 6-8 capsules (300-400 mg) to reduce inflamation?[/QUOTE]
I have taken up to 400mg with no side effects, but I keep my maintenance dosage at around 250mg. What else are you taking to attenuate inflammation? Does your supplement contain 95% OPC's (Oligomeric Proanthocyanidin's)?
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[QUOTE=NO HYPE;43368841]I have taken up to 400mg with no side effects, but I keep my maintenance dosage at around 250mg. What else are you taking to attenuate inflammation? Does your supplement contain 95% OPC's (Oligomeric Proanthocyanidin's)?[/QUOTE]
ill double check, but I think it is 95 percent. Reps for your help, and also one more thing. If I'm taking 6 capsules a day, when should I take them, and should I spread them out? thanks alot
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[QUOTE=Catch39;43529211]ill double check, but I think it is 95 percent. Reps for your help, and also one more thing. If I'm taking 6 capsules a day, when should I take them, and should I spread them out? thanks alot[/QUOTE]
Well.... that's 300mg, and I take 250mg twice a day (morning/night).
Does that help? :)
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Since I have the research on hand (having put it into my latest product, CyoGenX), here's some cool stuff on GrapeSeedExtract (Procyanidin), from various human, in situ, in vitro, and in vivo studies:
• Inhibits the Aromatase Enzyme (prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen at the genetic level, preventing both transcription and expression of Aromatase) [1-4]
• Acts similarly to Letrozole (a prescription Aromatase Inhibitor), and can destroy breast tumor tissue (gynecomastia) [1]
• Has anabolic properties (Inhibits the Glucocorticoid Receptor, thus allowing more muscle to be built)[4]
• Has Anti-Hypertensive properties [5]
• Improves Cognitive Function [5]
• Lowers LDL Cholesterol [6]
• Is a strong Anti-Oxidant (stronger than vitamin C or E) [6]
. Grape seed extract is an aromatase inhibitor and a suppressor of aromatase expression. Cancer Res. 2006 Jun 1;66(11):5960-7.
2. Suppression of Estrogen biosynthesis by procyanidin dimmers in red wine and grape seeds. Cancer Res. 2003 Dec 1;63(23):8516-22.
3. Suppression of aromatase (estrogen synthetase) by red wine phytochemicals. Breast Cancer Res. Treat., 67: 133-146, 2001
4. Modulation of aromatase gene expression by grape seed extract. Ikuko Kijima, et al. City of Hope, Durante, CA.
5. Antihypertensive and cognitive effects of grape polyphenols in estrogen-depleted, female, spontaneously hypertensive rats. Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol. 2005 Sep;289(3):R771-5.
6. Concentrated red grape juice exerts antioxidant, hypolipidemic, and antiinflammatory effects in both hemodialysis patients and healthy subjects. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Jul;84(1):252-62.Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Jul;84(1):252-62.
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I always see GSE used as an antioxidant in NO products, and just assumed it was only used for cleaning up free radicals. So are you saying that all of us using NO products that contain GSE are also taking anti-estrogens?
I am sort of worried about this actually. Is there any chance that once I cycle off of my current NO supplement (Animal Pump) that contain GSE, I could get a rebound and get Gyno?
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[QUOTE=sonicology;42691981]I suggest taking it with resveratrol
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As do I...
I put Resveratrol and GSE into an anti-estrogen product with another AI (Stinging Nettle)...
My advice is to figure out how much of each you want, and find the best product for the money. I didn't do the math, but hopefully the GSE/Res/SN product I put out with PF is priced competitively with others, and has what people are looking for, dosage-wise.
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[QUOTE=hooker;45317911]As do I...
I put Resveratrol and GSE into an anti-estrogen product with another AI (Stinging Nettle)...
My advice is to figure out how much of each you want, and find the best product for the money. I didn't do the math, but hopefully the GSE/Res/SN product I put out with PF is priced competitively with others, and has what people are looking for, dosage-wise.[/QUOTE]
Found this too...
[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16740737[/url]
Any newer info on GSE as an AI? Would it be safe to take daily & not cycle it if used as an AI?
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Question for No_Hype
Have you seen any studies regarding the anti-inflammatory effects of GSE on muscle growth, what is its MOA?
I realize that even the issue of NSAIDs affecting muscle growth is a somewhat hotly debated topic, Input would be appreciated.
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[QUOTE=FoolontheHill;235542261]Have you seen any studies regarding the anti-inflammatory effects of GSE on muscle growth, what is its MOA?[/QUOTE]
I honestly do not believe there are any.
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[QUOTE=FoolontheHill;235542261]I realize that even the issue of NSAIDs affecting muscle growth is a somewhat hotly debated topic, Input would be appreciated.[/QUOTE]
In terms of antioxidants and bodybuilding, while baseline ROS generation is of physiological benefit to muscle growth, the higher the level of ROS, the greater the dysruption of myogenic fusion and/or regeneration [1]. This suggests that ROS attenuation [via nutritional supplementation] aquires the ability to benefit and/or speed the recovery process.
[1] Zaccagnini et al. (2007) J. Biol. Chem., Vol. 282, Issue 43, 31453-31459
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I have looked into the Now Foods product many times but never bought. It does look awesome. Now would it be cool to take this daily indefinitely? I am not looking for test boosting from TR but overall health. Also how would taking TR daily affect a natural test boosting product?
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[QUOTE=Heracles25;235639181]Now would it be cool to take this daily indefinitely?[/QUOTE]
Well cycle everything on and off once in a while, but yeah.... definitely a beneficial nutrient worth taking.
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I have taken this stuff for a long time, just because it's such a powerful antioxidant that's extremely good for your overall health, especially your heart and blood vessels.
I learned a while back that it helps stimulate collagen synthesis.
Now I learn that it has anti-estrogenic properties? This **** keeps gettin better and better.
I use nutra planet's grape seed extract powder.
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[QUOTE=NO HYPE;235641861]Well cycle everything on and off once in a while, but yeah.... definitely a beneficial nutrient worth taking.[/QUOTE]
Nice. Thanks for the reply.