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Im cutting and have been running 4-5miles every other day and love the feeling/runner's high. the day im not running i do weights, but have noticed ive been keeping legs as the last day in rotation for resistance day. how much does running really work your legs?
Look at the build of runners and you will have your answer.
ask this guy
[img]http://stevestenzel.com/photos3/mara09_leadmale.jpg[/img]
sprinting on the other hand...
[img]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/marathoner_vs_sprinter(1).jpg[/img]
But sprinters do weight training as well so really you want big legs....
Squat.
[QUOTE=coals;620946883]as this guy
[img]http://stevestenzel.com/photos3/mara09_leadmale.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
^^^ Runner
[img]http://www.boxinginsider.com/img/atoo.jpg[/img]
^^^ Sprinters
High Intensity Interval Training ftw
The difference is which muscles fibers you activate. If you lift heavy weights or otherwise put a load on your muscles, you are activating fast twitch muscle fiberts. If you are running, you activate slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are responsible for the vast majority of hypertrophy.
Sprinters look the way they do because they lift, not really from the running they do. However, sprinting does activate a lot more fast twitch muscle than distance running would.
[QUOTE=MCrow;620950803]The difference is which muscles fibers you activate. If you lift heavy weights or otherwise put a load on your muscles, you are activating fast twitch muscle fiberts. If you are running, you activate slow twitch muscle fibers. Fast twitch muscle fibers are responsible for the vast majority of hypertrophy.
Sprinters look the way they do because they lift, not really from the running they do. However, sprinting does activate a lot more fast twitch muscle than distance running would.[/QUOTE]
Actually a lot of sprinters look that way from eating a sh!tload and activating their fast twitch as often as they do. When they repair, the grow similarly to weight trained muscles. You will get bigger training that way.
There is a ceiling, of course. You can't become Jay Cutler from sprinting. But you will put on considerably muscle doing nothing but HIIT and eating properly.
[QUOTE=vabyss;620954183]Actually a lot of sprinters look that way from eating a sh!tload and activating their fast twitch as often as they do. When they repair, the grow similarly to weight trained muscles. You will get bigger training that way.
There is a ceiling, of course. You can't become Jay Cutler from sprinting. But you will put on considerably muscle doing nothing but HIIT and eating properly.[/QUOTE]
Here's a typical sprinter's workout:
[url]http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tomgreen.htm[/url]
Yes, there will be some hypertrophy from sprinting (due to activating fast twitch fibers) but not on the same level as lifting. Lifting activates a lot more FT fibers and is more responsible for sprinters having big legs, though both contribute to it.
[QUOTE=coals;620946883]ask this guy
[img]http://stevestenzel.com/photos3/mara09_leadmale.jpg[/img]
sprinting on the other hand...
[img]http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/marathoner_vs_sprinter(1).jpg[/img]
But sprinters do weight training as well so really you want big legs....
Squat.[/QUOTE]
It's really unfair when someone asks what running will do for your legs for you to post the pictures of competitive olympic marathoners. It's beyond unfair ... it's asinine.
To the OP: Running will do for your legs exactly what you train them to do. If you train them to carry a borderline anorexic frame nearly 27 miles at 5 mins/mile, the net result will be the disingenuous pictures that Coals posted. If you train them to carry a heavier frame at a slower rate across a more modest distance (ie the kind of running YOU are doing), you should see some muscle gains on your legs. If you train them to sprint, they'll be pretty thick.
In the end, running (even sprinting) does not stimulate hypertrophy the same way resistance training does. Beyond just fast/slow twitch, muscle will respond differently to heavy resistance than it will to moving your bodyweight.
Well, you're using your leg muscles to move your entire body mass, so it's quite apparent that running builds up leg muscles. Not only are your legs working to propel you forward and away from the Earth, they're also acting to balance your constant changing center of mass.
One very apparent display of leg strength in relation to other muscles is to observe the weight that most people start out with or currently work out with in squats and deadlifts - it's much higher than their respective bench presses and rows.
I'd speculate that our legs are constantly supporting about 40%+ of our weight while standing/walking/running. This is somewhat of a blessing for us fat mothers who would like to lose weight and/or get into bodybuilding. Our legs have been supporting a huge amount of mass, so we can start out with higher weight or higher reps.
One of the main problems with overweight people shows up in cardio. With the more "developed" leg muscles, constructed by our bodies as they try to adapt to our rotund forms, we ostensibly have an advantage when it comes to walking/jogging/running. Unfortunately, while our muscles may be well prepared to lug our asses around the track, our joints tend to have a lower stress threshold, and the shock of trying to stabilize such a large mass taxes the crap out of our bones and joints. Thankfully we have bikes and stationary equipment to lessen the impact on our joints while giving our muscles an ability to utilize their moderately-developed strength.
Vabyss is correct, HIIT will develop your leg muscle strength and will do so fairly rapidly in comparison to LISS cardio. It does depend what kind of HIIT exercises your doing (as HIIT doesn't specify the workout, just the intensity). I've found quite a bit of success in developing leg strength while using a combination of a stationary bike and "quick" squats at a percentage of my 1RM.
[QUOTE=MCrow;620960013]Here's a typical sprinter's workout:
[url]http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tomgreen.htm[/url]
Yes, there will be some hypertrophy from sprinting (due to activating fast twitch fibers) but not on the same level as lifting. Lifting activates a lot more FT fibers and is more responsible for sprinters having big legs, though both contribute to it.[/QUOTE]
The various types and tons of training majority of elite athletes do is why they can eat so much food and still look great. I recall John Berardi saying he eats and trains in a similar fashion and encourages the approach. (I think he called it G-Flux.)
Im sure a few months of heavy squats will build more muscle in your legs then years of running
thanks for the responses. i'll keep running while trying to cut fat, but make sure to get one day a week of leg weights in
[QUOTE=ryankoch83;620908423]Im cutting and have been running 4-5miles every other day and love the feeling/runner's high. the day im not running i do weights, but have noticed ive been keeping legs as the last day in rotation for resistance day. how much does running really work your legs?[/QUOTE]
I am/have been an Ultra runner I run 50-100 Miles at a time and unfortunatly You may Lose some muscle generally for energy on long distances using muscle fibers for energy. But they deffinatly become solid and ripped up but Id suggest just for leg training Do leg workouts such as lunges squats pesses and such. If you Really want to run go ahead but dont rely on jsut that if you want larger legs.
I got slightly larger calves from running casually in spring and summer.
I''ll try sprinting this year and see what happens:)
**sigh**
ah fug it. I'm not even going to bother!
You know what... OP, why don't you see what works for you. If running at a steady pace for hours on end builds you mass then there you go. if not then try incorporating short bursts of high intensity.
It's sad but usually these discussions usually turn into pissing matches of who is the mist erudite. I'm sure that special someone knows who I'm talking about!
^
Looks like someone still has his panties in a twist from the last time he got caught saying something retarded.
Feel free to get back to cyber-stalking the female members of BB.com
[QUOTE=msm00b;621117683]^
Looks like someone still has his panties in a twist from the last time he got caught saying something retarded.
Feel free to get back to cyber-stalking the female members of BB.com[/QUOTE]
That was low! Even for you... Wow.
[QUOTE=Dstew419;621163203]That was low! Even for you... Wow.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes the truth hurts. It's funny to come across your pseudo-creepy comments every now and then when you look at people's (always female) profiles.
Now that we got that out of the way, do you have any pearls of wisdom to contribute to this conversation or were you just chiding for the sake of being a troll? And please remember that your last "pearl" about running was that the body will actively dump muscle because it 'senses' a need to make itself lighter to make running easier.
Extricate the panties from your butt-crack and let's get on with life mmmkay?
Nobody asked you to passive-aggressively dredge up old arguments.
Running does not help "build" your legs although many runners have nice toned looking legs. In fact, running will likely impeded your leg growth if you are trying to run too fast/far while at the same time trying to gain muscle on your legs.
[QUOTE=belairdfence99;621442093]Running does not help "build" your legs although many runners have nice toned looking legs. In fact, running will likely impeded your leg growth if you are trying to run too fast/far while at the same time trying to gain muscle on your legs.[/QUOTE]
Incorrect. Any type of physical exercise that uses your legs will "build" your legs (backpacking, hicking, biking). If you don't agree, there's a veritable army of cyclists, sprinters, hurdlers, and even distance runners who would argue with you.
The problem with running is that there's a wide range of training that you really have to step back to see the bigger picture. It's also why those pictures posted are so missleading (though I am glad he showed both ends of the spectrum). Extreme distance running will train slow twitch fibers, and the body habitus most conducive to this sport is one that isn't carrying around a lot of excess weight --> typically thin with a high degree of slow-twitch muscle fiber training: ie the marathoner's body. In the case of marathoners its often a combination of lack of resistance training (counter-productive to their chosen sport) with the extremely high caloric burden on the body. They don't want the muscle, and they certainly aren't going to get it accidentally when they're moving a much as they do.
The sprinter on the other hand uses both upper and lower body to propel itself forward. Fast twitch fibers abound here and you'll get fairly large calves quads and gluts as a trained sprinter. Depending on what other exercises you do, your upper body might be leanly buff as well.
Then you have the rest of us ... who don't spend all their time doing sprint intervals or running ridiculously long sessions. For the rest of us running will increase lower extremity musculature assuming your diet is in good order, but not in the same way as heavy leg training with weights will. Depending on your legs routine, if you're not careful with your running it could potentially interfere with resistance training -> be smart about it.
If by "build" your legs you were referring to the kind of "build" you get from heavy weight strength training ... then yes you are correct. Even sprinting will not give you legs like Jay Cutler ... but then again I imagine it'd be pretty funny trying to watch Mr Cutler haul his nearly 300lb 5'9" frame at speed down a track. Different training for different goals. Compared to nothing running will go a long way to build your legs. Compared to heavy resistance training ... not so much.
[QUOTE=msm00b;621447273]Incorrect. Any type of physical exercise that uses your legs will "build" your legs (backpacking, hicking, biking). If you don't agree, there's a veritable army of cyclists, sprinters, hurdlers, and even distance runners who would argue with you.
The problem with running is that there's a wide range of training that you really have to step back to see the bigger picture. It's also why those pictures posted are so missleading (though I am glad he showed both ends of the spectrum). Extreme distance running will train slow twitch fibers, and the body habitus most conducive to this sport is one that isn't carrying around a lot of excess weight --> typically thin with a high degree of slow-twitch muscle fiber training: ie the marathoner's body. The sprinter on the other hand uses both upper and lower body to propel itself forward. Fast twitch fibers abount here and you'll get fairly large calves quads and gluts as a trained sprinter. Depending on what other exercises you do, your upper body might be leanly buff as well. Then you have the rest of us ... who don't spend all their time doing sprint intervals or running ridiculously long sessions. For the rest of us running will increase lower extremity musculature assuming your diet is in good order.
If by "build" your legs you were referring to the kind of "build" you get from heavy weight strength training ... then yes you are correct. Even sprinting will not give you legs like Jay Cutler ... but then again I imagine it'd be pretty funny trying to watch Mr Cutler haul his nearly 300lb 5'9" frame at speed down a track.
Different training for different goals. Compared to nothing running will go a long way to build your legs. Compared to heavy resistance training ... not so much.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about noticeable differences compared to solely weight training. I run a lot and it is pretty clear that my legs stay pretty thin because I run so much even though I can squat 315.
Back to the OP, if you want to do cardio and still want to build your legs. Sprint training or intervals is your best bet because you won't be able to run for very long and it will train the fast-twitch muscle fibers in your legs.
[QUOTE=belairdfence99;621448853]I'm talking about noticeable differences compared to solely weight training.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely ... a completely different type of training there though. I wouldn't expect any type of pure running to give you the same result as bodybuilding any more than I would expect training as a marathon runner to give you the type of body a sprinter has.
surely if the op runs and weight trains and keeps training his legs, he wont loose muscle??
[QUOTE=ArdenVxr;621476803]surely if the op runs and weight trains and keeps training his legs, he wont loose muscle??[/QUOTE]
He will not lose muscle.
Running does not cause muscle loss.
Inadequate training (or no training) and poor diet cause muscle loss.
[QUOTE=msm00b;621495403]He will not lose muscle.
Running does not cause muscle loss.
Inadequate training (or no training) and poor diet cause muscle loss.[/QUOTE]
This^
I'm tired of thinking that people think running will cause muscle loss, how? aslong as you keep up your training and protein, no muscle loss should even be noticeable.
also OP, if you want big legs, SQUAT BIG!
[QUOTE=ryankoch83;620908423]Im cutting and have been running 4-5miles every other day and love the feeling/runner's high. the day im not running i do weights, but have noticed ive been keeping legs as the last day in rotation for resistance day. how much does running really work your legs?[/QUOTE]
I know this topic always starts a bar-room brawl on this website for some reason. I can't speak to the science of it all and I'm not going to discuss fast/slow twich fibers or give you blue prints for a new Hubble space telescope. I can tell you this. I have done a ****-load of running as my primary cardio source. Not to the degree of a competitve runner but certainly allot more than most bodybuilders.
At my peak, I will usually run three 30 minute sessions per week, 1 sprint session and 1 HIIT session. ON my three 30 minute sessions, I always work in intervals but not at the same intensity as a specified HIIT session.
So, I'm not doing allot in the way of steady state distance running. I do allot of higher intensity work and sprints.
the only ss type session is sometimes in the summer I will go out around sun-set and just casually jog for an hour or so. Not for speed and not even so much for a workout. I just kind of casually trot along and chil out to some tunes.
My leg strength in the gym has never really dminished as a result of my running. According to the judges, my legs were my best body part at my last contest. The avi does them no justice.
So, in my opnion. running is just fine as long as your calorie balance is where it needs to be.
[QUOTE=.Geeza;621515073]This^
I'm tired of thinking that people think running will cause muscle loss, how? aslong as you keep up your training and protein, no muscle loss should even be noticeable.
also OP, if you want big legs, SQUAT BIG![/QUOTE]
i go big on leg day, BUT dont do free weight squats i alternate between 5sets x 5-8 reps to failure on leg press or squat machine
[QUOTE=Cape1;621522873]
So, in my opinion. running is just fine as long as your calorie balance is where it needs to be.[/QUOTE]
This...A lot of bodybuilders are so scared of doing any cardio, let alone running, it's not even funny.
It's mind blowing that simple walking is considered cardio nowadays:).
My goal is to run 10K this year. I got up to 7K last year but had to stop because it became unbearably hot in NYC:(.
[QUOTE=juliacheh;621535943]This...A lot of bodybuilders are so scared of doing any cardio, let alone running, it's not even funny.
It's mind blowing that simple walking is considered cardio nowadays:).
My goal is to run 10K this year. I got up to 7K last year but had to stop because it became unbearably hot in NYC:(.[/QUOTE]
Doing a 10k is definitely a challenge, esspecially if you plan to be competitive. I could never do that. Good luck on that one. NYC can be brutal in the summer!
Yeah, I think it's kind of funny too that walking is cardio to so many. I do think that the Natural guys tend to embrace high intensity cardio MUCH more than our counterparts in the non-tested events do. Two possible reasons come to mind. First, a guy who is 5'8" and weighs 250# + probably can't physically handle the impact, assuming he can even handle the CV piece; and 2) Allot of the drugs these guys use make cardio a whole lot more difficult; and, perhaps, even unecessary.
Good luck on those road races Julia!
I am a runner and I do have larger then average runners legs and I DO NOT do leg workouts on a regular basis at all. As in the realm of twice a year. that being said I seated claf raise 200ish easy and leg press 400ish. On the flip side I started running when I weighed 230 pound at 5'9". I am currently around 195 but was as low as 165 ans still had massive legs for not lifting. I agree that part of it comes to intesity and weight started. I would not neglet to do leg weight trainging (geez thats not a me contradicting myself) but you will not see any big gains from just running but you should see defenition. Also, terrain makes a difference. If you are just running on a treadmill at zero incline then you are just going nowhere really fast putting one leg infront of the other. If you are running outside then any degree of elevation change you will feel. If you want your legs to hurt while running outside find a hill that is about half a mile from your home and do a slow trotting run there. Once to the hill get up it as fast as you can WITHOUT stopping running, turn around and go to the bottom and repeat until your legs fall off. Then run home. Treadmill hills, I set the incline to 3ish(your milage may very on that part) and then do 60 75 intervules. 60 seconds dead sprint, 75 brisk walk or jog. usual paces for me are 9-12mph for 60 and then 3.5-4.5 for 75. Again, repeat until you legs fall off or when you get a sudden intoduction to the person behind you laughing as you just became a human missile.