Discussion: 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight...

Looking for some opinions and facts from some of Losing Fat Forum pros......So "Thepwner" "ms808" "pBateman" etc., please chime in.

Basically I am kinda questioning the 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight when cutting rule. I have always heard it on these forums and followed it religiously myself, but thinking about it now I have never really seen any studies or scientific proof layed out to back this up(not saying its not out there, just havent personally seen it). Is this just another "rule" made up by the supp. companies to sell more?

I have followed this rule since I began paying attention to my diet and excercising, but the more I really take a close look at how much protein I am eating just to maintain my muscle mass it seems kind of ridiculous.....I mean 180-190 grams of protein kind of seems like overkill just to MAINTAIN my atletic physique. I am not "buff" or anything even close. I weigh in at 185-190 at 10/11% bodyfat so basically I just kinda have an athletic look...and that is all I care to go for, I have no interest in getting buff.

That being said lets hear some opinions or experiences in going below the standard rule. Am I really going to lose what little mass I have if I am cutting at around .5 g of protein per lb of bodyweight? I' don't really care to risk it by trying for myself so I thought I might see what some of you guys had to say.

I currently am in taking 170-175 g of protein a day. I'm 190 right now and cutting. Lost some reps in my iso's, but gained in the big 3.

I'm pretty sure it's lean body mass. If you truely are 11% at 192 Lbs, then you would need only 170 Grams of Protein not 180-190.

Okay well if it is by LBM than thats a little better I guess, still seems like a bunch of protein just to maintain. Thanks for the input....Keep it coming


Lets see some studies/ pro opinions

your organs and cells need protein, and so do your muscles. in order to ensure that your muscles dont break down (and get used for your vital organs) you need to make sure you get enough daily. the more exercise you do the more your organs need, hence the increase in protein. then, when you're trying to bulk you need even more to increase the overall size of your muscles.

ive been working out for only 2.5 years or so and it seems if i get 1g per pound of total mass i cant even bulk on that. unfortunately.

of course, these rules are flexible depending on lifestyle, type of athlete you are, and also current body composition.

read up my friend [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein#Cellular_functions[/url]

It's not absolutely essential as you will discover if you read studies pertaining to the matter, but it's a good ballpark area that ensures you are getting adequate protein so that muscle loss is limited as much as possible. Since you're on this site, I'm guessing that's a concern - and I think it should be!

That said, if you go a bit below every once in a while I wouldn't sweat it at all.

On a related note, you should be aware that a high protein intake can indirectly contribute to weight loss because protein is generally very satiating, and because it has a pronounced thermogenic effect, meaning that actual calorie value of a protein-dense meal is a bit lower than you'd think!

[QUOTE=fade2green514;690932651]your vital organs need protein, and so do your muscles. in order to ensure that your muscles dont break down (and get used for your vital organs) you need to make sure you get enough daily. the more exercise you do the more your organs need, hence the increase in protein. then, when you're trying to bulk you need even more to increase the overall size of your muscles.

ive been working out for only 2.5 years or so and it seems if i get 1g per pound of total mass i cant even bulk on that. unfortunately.

of course, these rules are flexible depending on lifestyle, type of athlete you are, and also current body composition.[/QUOTE]

Well thats what I am saying bro, I am not a typical BB.com dude who is already big or is looking to get big. I am simply trying to maintain what I have. I'd say when I am lean I have an athletic physique at best. I just like to be somewhat lean with enough muscle to show some deffinition.

I do average about 10 miles a day on my bike. But I only lift 3 times a week. I am currently 17% bodyfat, just trying to get down to where I was in my pics maybe just a tad lower. I am currently eating 2500 daily and getting 180g protein, I just hate that half of my daily intake is meat. If I could eat 2500 cals of whatever I wanted it would not even seem like I am cutting. Just trying to get an idea of how much you can play with the Protein intake without shooting yourself in the foot...

[QUOTE=BigD208;690937191]Well thats what I am saying bro, I am not a typical BB.com dude who is already big or is looking to get big. I am simply trying to maintain what I have. I'd say when I am lean I have an athletic physique at best. I just like to be somewhat lean with enough muscle to show some deffinition.

I do average about 10 miles a day on my bike. But I only lift 3 times a week. I am currently 17% bodyfat, just trying to get down to where I was in my pics maybe just a tad lower. I am currently eating 2500 daily and getting 180g protein, I just hate that half of my daily intake is meat. If I could eat 2500 cals of whatever I wanted it would not even seem like I am cutting. Just trying to get an idea of how much you can play with the Protein intake without shooting yourself in the foot...[/QUOTE]

and were just saying that theres no real way to know for sure your protein needs in any given day so a great ball park estimate to ensure your muscles dont break down is 1g per pound

If you are strength training then you should intake 1.6-1.7g protein/kg of bw (body weight)

Do your weight in lbs divided by 2.2 and that will = your weight in kg.

[QUOTE=BigD208;690937191]Well thats what I am saying bro, I am not a typical BB.com dude who is already big or is looking to get big. I am simply trying to maintain what I have. I'd say when I am lean I have an athletic physique at best. I just like to be somewhat lean with enough muscle to show some deffinition.

I do average about 10 miles a day on my bike. But I only lift 3 times a week. I am currently 17% bodyfat, just trying to get down to where I was in my pics maybe just a tad lower. I am currently eating 2500 daily and getting 180g protein, I just hate that half of my daily intake is meat. If I could eat 2500 cals of whatever I wanted it would not even seem like I am cutting. Just trying to get an idea of how much you can play with the Protein intake without shooting yourself in the foot...[/QUOTE]

[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741[/url]

Q: How do I determine my lean body mass for calculating my protein intake?
A: You have to take your total body weight and subtract your fat weight. If you e.g. weigh 200lbs and your bodyfat is 20% (=40lbs), your lean body mass is 200lbs - 40lbs = 160lbs. If you don't know your bodyfat, just take a guess. When in doubt, just eat a little more. However, if for some reason, you can't eat as much protein, just eat a little less, most people will still do fine.

For me personally, I've found fat intake is more important than protein intake. I've done a high protein, low fat 500 cal deficit diet with moderate carbs. Lost a lot of strength/mass and had to stop. When I keep fats at a minimum of 75g, I see no difference between a high protein intake and a low protein intake, and strength rarely goes down.

[QUOTE=Thumper.;690944361]For me personally, I've found fat intake is more important than protein intake. I've done a high protein, low fat 500 cal deficit diet with moderate carbs. Lost a lot of strength/mass and had to stop. When I keep fats at a minimum of 75g, I see no difference between a high protein intake and a low protein intake, and strength rarely goes down.[/QUOTE]

Fats are definitely important for your endocrine function (keeping hormones at optimal levels)!! Don't neglect them!

I'd really say you should aim to optimize intake of protein and fat and then use carbs to fill the gap so to speak...

[QUOTE=dirtyram;690940901]If you are strength training then you should intake 1.6-1.7g protein/kg of bw (body weight)

Do your weight in lbs divided by 2.2 and that will = your weight in kg.[/QUOTE]

That has me at about 160g a day. Might give that a shot and see how my strength goes

The bottom line is when you are dieting, your body needs the extra protein to ensure it doesn't catabolize the muscles for energy.

Protein is muscle sparing! Given that muscles are pretty much nothing but protein themselves, it makes sense from a logical perspective.

Here's a quick study on it:

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Nov 13. [Epub ahead of print]

Increased Protein Intake Reduces Lean Body Mass Loss during Weight Loss in Athletes.
Mettler S, Mitchell N, Tipton KD.

1School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Birmingham, United Kingdom 2Department of Agricultural and Food Sciences, ETH Zurich, Zurich, Switzerland 3English Institute of Sport, Sheffield, United Kingdom.

PURPOSE:: To examine the influence of dietary protein on lean body mass loss and performance during short-term hypoenergetic weight loss in athletes. METHODS:: In a parallel design, 20 healthy, young resistance trained athletes were examined for energy expenditure for one week and fed a mixed diet (15% protein, 100% energy) in the second week, followed by a hypoenergetic diet (60% of the habitual energy intake), containing either 15% (~1.0g.kg) protein (control group, n=10; CP) or 35% (~2.3 g.kg) protein (high protein group, n=10; HP) for two weeks. Subjects continued their habitual training throughout the study. Total, lean body and fat mass, performance (squat jump, maximal isometric leg extension, one repetition maximum bench press, muscle endurance bench press and 30 sec wingate test) and fasting blood samples (glucose, non esterified fatty acids (NEFA), glycerol, urea, cortisol, free testosterone, free IGF-1 and growth hormone) and psychological measures were examined at the end of each of the four weeks. RESULTS:: Total (-3.0 +/- 0.4 kg and -1.5 +/- 0.3 kg for the CP and HP, respectively, p=0.036) and lean body mass loss (-1.6 +/- 0.3 kg and -0.3 +/- 0.3 kg, p=0.006) were significantly larger in the CP compared to the HP. Fat loss, performance and most blood parameters were not influenced by the diet. Urea was higher in HP and NEFA and urea showed a group*time interaction. Fatigue ratings and 'worse than normal' scores on the DALDA were higher in HP. [B]CONCLUSION:: These results indicate that ~2.3 g.kg-1 or ~35% protein was significantly superior to ~1.0 g.kg-1 or ~15% energy protein for maintenance of lean body mass in healthy young athletes during short-term, hypoenergetic weight loss.[/B]

[QUOTE=Jenslyn17;690945131]Fats are definitely important for your endocrine function (keeping hormones at optimal levels)!! Don't neglect them!

I'd really say you should aim to optimize intake of protein and fat and then use carbs to fill the gap so to speak...[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. Through experience though, I've learned I don't have to stress so much if I don't hit 150g of protein.

[QUOTE=Jenslyn17;690945131]Fats are definitely important for your endocrine function (keeping hormones at optimal levels)!! Don't neglect them!

I'd really say you should aim to optimize intake of protein and fat and then use carbs to fill the gap so to speak...[/QUOTE]

Cool, thats more or less where I am at now. Few carbs simply because I like fats better.They Keep me much more satisfied when Im cutting.

[QUOTE=TelusLob;690947641]The bottom line is when you are dieting, your body needs the extra protein to ensure it doesn't catabolize the muscles for energy.

Protein is muscle sparing! Given that muscles are pretty much nothing but protein themselves, it makes sense from a logical perspective.

Here's a quick study on it:

Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2009 Nov 13. [Epub ahead of print]

Increased Protein Intake Reduces Lean Body Mass Loss during Weight Loss in Athletes.
Mettler S, Mitchell N, Tipton KD.

B][/QUOTE]

Thanks, this is just what I was looking for. Guess I'll keep pounding down the protein haha.

It isn't that you need at least 1g of protein per pound of fat free mass it is that 1g per pound is intentional overkill. When your goal is to retain as much lean mass as possible on a cut you don't want to end up losing mass because you aren't taking in enough protein. 1g per pound intentionally overshoots your daily requirement to remove that possibility. You can absolutely get away with less on an infrequent basis and maybe even on a regular basis. The consequences of doing it on a regular basis might be a few ounces or pounds of lean mass though.

As someone coming down from 295 losing fat is my priority. While I don't want to lose any lean mass in the process if I have to make that sacrifice in order to remain sane while cutting the fat it is a sacrifice I am willing to make. For someone that just bulked up 30 pounds that is trying his hardest to lose the fat without giving away all of his hard work it makes more sense to prioritize muscle mass.

The choice is up to you. I have learned to prioritize protein and dietary fat in my diet while maintaining my sanity during a deficit of calories. It took time and some adaption but eventually I found the right foods for the job.

[QUOTE=fade2green514;690932651]
read up my friend [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein#Cellular_functions[/url][/QUOTE]

Haha, I'm not implying what you said was incorrect, but did you really just cite wikipedia as your source?

You can actually eat much more protein with no down side.


[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/protein-requirements-for-strength-and-power-athletes.html[/url]

Hi,

Ive also been thinking the same stuff recenlty. There seems to be a lot of contadicting information on the internet about the amount of protein required per lb or even kg you weight

e.g 1 gram of protein per lb you weigh
or
1 gram of protein per kg you weigh

the formula i have gone for is,

my body weight -body fat = grams of protein required
176lbs - 34% = 116 grams of protein....which to me sounds like quite a lot, especialy as you only get roughly 25 grams of protein per 1 scoop of protein shake.

Has anyone tried this method and has it worked for them?

Im a firm believer that for myself the most protein I need is 1 gram per pound of lean mass. That also leaves a good ratio for carbs and fats too.

Hi Guys, I'm starting taking Protein & wondering would this one be OK .

myprotein.com/ie/products/impact-whey-protein

Cheers,

Max

Dr. Soja ---- I just saw the light! What you said has huge implications for a guy like me coming down from 30% plus. I need to re-think a lot of what I have read about this.
Thank you!

[QUOTE=SOJA;691313711]In reality you only need .7 g per pound of lbm, but it's rounded up to 1 g per pound of lbm. If you're above say 18% body fat you won't see any muscle catabolism and if you do it's going to be a very small amount. Above 18% your body isn't going to run out of reserve any time soon.[/QUOTE]

.7g/lb is for an obese person not working out....

"So basically we have an intake continuum ranging from about 1.5 g/kg (0.68 g/lb) as a minimum for the obese non-training individual up to a high of around 3.3 g/kg (1.5 g/lb) of protein per pound of lean body mass for very lean heavily training athletes or bodybuilders with middle ground values being found in between those two extremes"

-Lyle Mcdonald

[url]http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/protein-intake-while-dieting-qa.html[/url]


Protein is a cutters dream food it has the highest thermic effect, preserves muscle, and the highest satiety. Why you would not want to eat it is a bit baffling?