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[QUOTE=AlbinoGerbil;995293953]Was going to leave this alone but what's one more?
Please pardon the sarcasm it's not meant towards you but to make a point.
Hey Z, you know where the majority of mass shootings/stabbing are taking place?
Take your time ...
yep you guessed it...schools.
Guess what... by law you can't carry a weapon of any kind on school grounds. So that means law abiding gun owners are disarmed on school premises because they obey the law. Guess who doesn't...that's right, criminals and psychopaths. Interesting, isn't it?
A place where it's pretty much guaranteed no one has the equipment available to put up a, if necessary, lethal resistance. Kind of a preview on what it could be like elsewhere. Pretty damn terrifying if you ask me.
Kind of nullifies your post.
Oh but hey, let's rely on the police to defend us I mean they're always readily available, right...right?
So anyway.......
Anybody else finish their Christmas shopping yet?[/QUOTE]
You act like people are coming to the rescue. Sorry, haven't seen one yet. So keep on thinking you are going to save the day. Meanwhile, people with guns are the ones out doing the mass killings. Which has reached it's lowest state ever being in our elementary schools now. Again the problem is the good people have them and the bad people have them. Then it's the innocent that are the victims in the middle. So when law comes down, blame those that ruined it for you. Everyone else is sick of living this way.
I took my time...
Btw, I know I've already said new laws is not going to stop this. It's the places people go that's going to need to change. Be it the Malls, schools, etc. No longer can you just walk in these places. Everything will be like the airports I feel. Schools will be locked down at all times. Why, because people sane one day became not so sane the next. So we all suffer because of it.
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what up all...another Monday
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[QUOTE=blkbelt42;995332863]what up all...another Monday[/QUOTE]
You still working out in the mornings?
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[QUOTE=ZBlacktt;995333043]You still working out in the mornings?[/QUOTE]
Trying to, I usually get a few in a week, the pain controls pretty much everything now
so just getting my arse to work is all I really concentrate on.
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[QUOTE=blkbelt42;995332863]what up all...another Monday[/QUOTE]
I got 8 hours sleep last night, MAN! That does a body good.
Still not thrilled about Monday.
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[QUOTE=velocityrob;995354273]I got 8 hours sleep last night, MAN! That does a body good.
Still not thrilled about Monday.[/QUOTE]
showoff! :D
[QUOTE=SpoiledUp;995359573]Fcuking Monday.[/QUOTE]
this^^^!!!
sup dude?
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[QUOTE=blkbelt42;995360593]showoff! :D
[/QUOTE]
It took a large effort to go to sleep at 8PM. I mean, I was tired, but tv...internet...games on the phone...electronics are damned distracting.
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[QUOTE=ZBlacktt;995283253]Number of armed civilians who stopped mass shooters lately? Number of civilains armed that caused mass shootings lately?[/QUOTE]
Bro - don't you know - the answer to an increase in civilian gun violence is to arm more civilians.
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=AlbinoGerbil;995293953]
Guess what... by law you can't carry a weapon of any kind on school grounds. So that means law abiding gun owners are disarmed on school premises because they obey the law. Guess who doesn't...that's right, criminals and psychopaths. Interesting, isn't it?
A place where it's pretty much guaranteed no one has the equipment available to put up a, if necessary, lethal resistance. Kind of a preview on what it could be like elsewhere. Pretty damn terrifying if you ask me.
Kind of nullifies your post.
Oh but hey, let's rely on the police to defend us I mean they're always readily available, right...right?
[/QUOTE]
Bro - I stand corrected - the answer to an increase in civilian gun violence is to arm more civilians [b]AT SCHOOLS[/b].
:confused:
WTF did I just read???
[QUOTE=ZBlacktt;995313003]You act like people are coming to the rescue. Sorry, haven't seen one yet. So keep on thinking you are going to save the day. Meanwhile, people with guns are the ones out doing the mass killings. Which has reached it's lowest state ever being in our elementary schools now. Again the problem is the good people have them and the bad people have them. Then it's the innocent that are the victims in the middle. So when law comes down, blame those that ruined it for you. Everyone else is sick of living this way.
I took my time...
Btw, I know I've already said new laws is not going to stop this. It's the places people go that's going to need to change. Be it the Malls, schools, etc. No longer can you just walk in these places. Everything will be like the airports I feel. Schools will be locked down at all times. Why, because people sane one day became not so sane the next. So we all suffer because of it.[/QUOTE]
Valid points. I guess we can all just live in a country with increased weapons, armed police guards at school dances for 13 year olds, prison level security at schools (really? :confused) and every gun owner salivating at the chance to prove the value of his CC permit by engaging in a gun battle with the next civilian shooter and proving why civilians should carry.
In this country the gun lovers are a vocal minority. Maybe it's time for the silent majority to say "enough is enough".
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good debate. and dont worry about "clogging up the thread" guys. this is a chat thread and quite frankly small debates that break out occasionally are a GOOD thing in my opinion. assumming we respect differences in opinion, which you guys have no problem doing
but anyway, i am terribly conflicted about this gun issue. i understand both sides, but i aslo know that we have to change SOMETHING. something has to change here, even if it doesnt turn out to be the optimal solution (in hindsight). I'm looking at this latest situation and the guy took his mother's guns and went crazy with them. that's a problem.
surely there is something that can be done. im still pondering that stuff, its just tough because this one hit me pretty hard. we can't continue down this road, and it looks like many of the lawmakers agree. it's just a matter of how we attack this severe issue
this gun thing is going to be intriguing. it's so polarizing.
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[QUOTE=ZBlacktt;995313003]You act like people are coming to the rescue. Sorry, haven't seen one yet. So keep on thinking you are going to save the day. Meanwhile, people with guns are the ones out doing the mass killings. Which has reached it's lowest state ever being in our elementary schools now. Again the problem is the good people have them and the bad people have them. Then it's the innocent that are the victims in the middle. So when law comes down, blame those that ruined it for you. Everyone else is sick of living this way.
I took my time...
Btw, I know I've already said new laws is not going to stop this. It's the places people go that's going to need to change. Be it the Malls, schools, etc. No longer can you just walk in these places. Everything will be like the airports I feel. Schools will be locked down at all times. Why, because people sane one day became not so sane the next. So we all suffer because of it.[/QUOTE]
yeah this is insanely true. it's like what lengths do we have to go to in order to gain that sense of security as we had ages ago? where is all of this going?
people are ruthlessly targeting kids now. the race to change how we do things is on. i just hope that we can attack it effectively ASAP. this disgusts me because it seems like every year you have another guy that "raises the bar", and this latest guy took it to a level that we didnt even think was possible
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Morning all. Ham, eggs and hyperbole all around.
:}
This could go on and on but it's pointless. You're not changing my opinion nor do I intend to attempt to change yours.
If anything, this discussion has given me a better look at particular mindsets. I appreciate the discussion.
What's up UG?
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i just erased a long post, because i can sum up my point in fewer words
We also need to work on not forgetting those who dont fit in with societal norms. "Oh he has personality issues, and just cant connect with people".
well you know what? Thats a problem that has to be addressed with intensity. no kid deserves to be pushed back in the recesses of society because they dont fit in. By no means am I removing the perpetrators from responsibility, this is merely just proposed measures that we need to take going forward, for our own good.
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[QUOTE=Trapstar4.4;995371703]i just erased a long post, because i can sum up my point in fewer words
We also need to work on not forgetting those who dont fit in with societal norms. "Oh he has personality issues, and just cant connect with people".
well you know what? Thats a problem that has to be addressed with intensity. no kid deserves to be pushed back in the recesses of society because they dont fit in. By no means am I removing the perpetrators from responsibility, this is merely just proposed measures that we need to take going forward, for our own good.[/QUOTE]
That actually makes a lot of sense. The trick is keeping it from becoming a 'witch hunt'.
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[QUOTE=Trapstar4.4;995366803]good debate. and dont worry about "clogging up the thread" guys. this is a chat thread and quite frankly small debates that break out occasionally are a GOOD thing in my opinion. assumming we respect differences in opinion, which you guys have no problem doing
but anyway, i am terribly conflicted about this gun issue. i understand both sides, but i aslo know that we have to change SOMETHING. something has to change here, even if it doesnt turn out to be the optimal solution (in hindsight). I'm looking at this latest situation and the guy took his mother's guns and went crazy with them. that's a problem.
surely there is something that can be done. im still pondering that stuff, its just tough because this one hit me pretty hard. we can't continue down this road, and it looks like many of the lawmakers agree. it's just a matter of how we attack this severe issue
this gun thing is going to be intriguing. it's so polarizing.[/QUOTE]
My intent in talking about this is not to rustle jimmies, but to hopefully spark some rational though on the topic. Look at things from different perspectives than what we previously held. For this subject to make any legitimate progress, everyone on all sides of the issue needs to compromise a little. Let's see if we can all meet somewhere in the middle.
As an interesting read/case study - take a look at Australia's number of mass shootings, home invasions and armed robberies since they took a lot of guns off the streets in 1996. The facts may surprise you: [url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html[/url]
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[QUOTE=Trapstar4.4;995371703]i just erased a long post, because i can sum up my point in fewer words
We also need to work on not forgetting those who dont fit in with societal norms. "Oh he has personality issues, and just cant connect with people".
well you know what? Thats a problem that has to be addressed with intensity. no kid deserves to be pushed back in the recesses of society because they dont fit in. By no means am I removing the perpetrators from responsibility, this is merely just proposed measures that we need to take going forward, for our own good.[/QUOTE]
This is the true root cause. With proper supervision, supports and attention nobody should feel so alone that they go on a mass shooting spree. And people that are clinically not stable enough to manage the deadly power of a weapon should have zero access to them.
If we had enough of a control on the social and family issues, everyone that wanted one could have a gun and there would be no violent crimes. But if we can't control one side of the equation, then we should give some thought to what could be done to minimize the harm from the other side of the equation.
Shane, I'm not anti gun. I think they're cool and fun. I'm anti gun violence.
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Morning UG's
Somber, rainy morning..
Parents hugged their kids a little more this morning at daycare.
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[QUOTE=AlbinoGerbil;995371693]Morning all. Ham, eggs and hyperbole all around.
:}
This could go on and on but it's pointless. You're not changing my opinion nor do I intend to attempt to change yours.
If anything, this discussion has given me a better look at particular mindsets. I appreciate the discussion.
What's up UG?[/QUOTE]
That is why i dont even bother. I dont think I have ever seen someone change there opinion on this subject and i have read literally hundreds of threads on this topic.
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[QUOTE=AlbinoGerbil;995373133]That actually makes a lot of sense. The trick is keeping it from becoming a 'witch hunt'.[/QUOTE]
absolutely. we have to work on our people problems, like NOW
[QUOTE=|ceman;995374073]My intent in talking about this is not to rustle jimmies, but to hopefully spark some rational though on the topic. Look at things from different perspectives than what we previously held. For this subject to make any legitimate progress, everyone on all sides of the issue needs to compromise a little. Let's see if we can all meet somewhere in the middle.
As an interesting read/case study - take a look at Australia's number of mass shootings, home invasions and armed robberies since they took a lot of guns off the streets in 1996. The facts may surprise you: [url]http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html[/url][/QUOTE]
yeah I was seeing that. these types of talks are what im hoping that we see more throughout our society and all the way into the chambers of congress. im going to check out that link because i am very interested in how we stack up with other countries.
they were just talking about this on the radio. as soon as the gun debate gets brought up, people go into defense mode. hopefully more than just our little group can open up a bit so we can figure this out. because in reality many of us are not looking for a complete ban on guns, but there has to be something that can be done to put some reigns on who has what. I think rational people on both sides of the debate can agree that there are a TON of people who should NOT own a gun. Not sure how to address it, but we have the minds in this country to hold that conversation.
[QUOTE=|ceman;995375043]This is the true root cause. With proper supervision, supports and attention nobody should feel so alone that they go on a mass shooting spree. And people that are clinically not stable enough to manage the deadly power of a weapon should have zero access to them.
If we had enough of a control on the social and family issues, everyone that wanted one could have a gun and there would be no violent crimes. But if we can't control one side of the equation, then we should give some thought to what could be done to minimize the harm from the other side of the equation.
Shane, I'm not anti gun. I think they're cool and fun. I'm anti gun violence.[/QUOTE]
yep well stated, im hoping this sentiment can stick, in regards to our priorities. If we could fix our "people" issues, then this country would see insane progression. initiatives that effectively address our people issues would have a pretty nasty snowball effect.
and same here. I shot my first gun when I was like 24, and the feeling it gave me, i just cant describe it. guns are cool, but yeah we just have to figure out how to fix our problems. We are going to need to be clever about it though.
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[QUOTE=TheMatzah;995376163]Morning UG's
Somber, rainy morning..
Parents hugged their kids a little more this morning at daycare.[/QUOTE]
yeah man, its going to be another gray day. we need this rain though. I need to go find my ol' lady another gift for her bday tomorrow, so im hoping it's not too bad.
[QUOTE=TheLBM;995377133]That is why i dont even bother. I dont think I have ever seen someone change there opinion on this subject and i have read literally hundreds of threads on this topic.[/QUOTE]
yeah i definitely hear you. I think both sides can get to the table and really work on our issues. Most of us know that it isnt as simple as saying, "no guns for anybody". we are going to need to be clever about it.
heck with the way society is, i am all about home protection. i just havent gone into it because i didnt grow up with guns, and my woman is a little iffy about it (although once she gets to go to the shooting range that will change). so yeah i will need to take all kinds of classes and stuff before i can even THINK about a move.
im confident that we will start moving in the right direction. i K know many gun owners who i fully trust with their weapons and family structure. we will get it worked out.
hmm weapons and family structure, it goes hand in hand i think and a good starting point, as Ice stated a few mins ago
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Ya man. I didn't even watch the giants/atl game. Spent the day with my son. Greater than anything else.
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Gotta love my diet green tea and UG thread drama on a Monday morning :}
Morning all!
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[QUOTE=Trapstar4.4;995371703]i just erased a long post, because i can sum up my point in fewer words
We also need to work on not forgetting those who dont fit in with societal norms. "Oh he has personality issues, and just cant connect with people".
well you know what? Thats a problem that has to be addressed with intensity. no kid deserves to be pushed back in the recesses of society because they dont fit in. By no means am I removing the perpetrators from responsibility, this is merely just proposed measures that we need to take going forward, for our own good.[/QUOTE]
Im leaning towards more mental issue than gun issue. I would be for more training and classes for people who carry too. Such as an annual refresher course and have to have a certain amount of time at the range to get familiar with your firearm & safety
[QUOTE=TheLBM;995377133]That is why i dont even bother. I dont think I have ever seen someone change there opinion on this subject and i have read literally hundreds of threads on this topic.[/QUOTE]
got a new toy
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139782533&p=995374483#post995374483[/url]
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[QUOTE=TheLBM;995377133]That is why i dont even bother. I dont think I have ever seen someone change there opinion on this subject and i have read literally hundreds of threads on this topic.[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the subject, if a thread doesn't have "Pics" in the title, then count me out
Morning all. How is it only 9:52 and this day is already a POS
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[QUOTE=TheMatzah;995381823]Ya man. I didn't even watch the giants/atl game. Spent the day with my son. Greater than anything else.[/QUOTE]
damn, i dont even have kids yet and it affected me like crazy. had to be tough when you look to your side and see your kid sitting their smiling.
this incident was off the charts and it is our duty to upgrade our society because these kids dont deserve that. we need more love. one thing that i do like is that his bullying thing has been a prime focus over the last few years. im not sure how far we have come (would be interested in hearing some testimony from parents who may have noticed some changes)
i know that when i have kids there will be a 0 tolerance policy for any kind of squeezing others out, bullying, or treating others badly because they are different. whether my kid is the bully or the bullied we're not having this sht and i sense society has really moved in this direction. (i hope im not wrong)
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[QUOTE=Procta;995383753]Im leaning towards more mental issue than gun issue. I would be for more training and classes for people who carry too. Such as an annual refresher course and have to have a certain amount of time at the range to get familiar with your firearm & safety
[/QUOTE]
I 2nd this Amendment.
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Morning ****gs, and Monday is here :-/
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[QUOTE=Procta;995383753]Im leaning towards more mental issue than gun issue. I would be for more training and classes for people who carry too. Such as an annual refresher course and have to have a certain amount of time at the range to get familiar with your firearm & safety
got a new toy
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=139782533&p=995374483#post995374483[/url][/QUOTE]
absolutely. it's just a shame that we havent attacked the mental issues long ago. hopefully we get that now because lets be honest, it's the same kind of guys that do this stuff. those that squeeze themselves into holes in society and we just disregard and go on with our lives. we forget them until they remind us that they were here.
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[QUOTE=Trapstar4.4;995384463]damn, i dont even have kids yet and it affected me like crazy. had to be tough when you look to your side and see your kid sitting their smiling.
this incident was off the charts and it is our duty to upgrade our society because these kids dont deserve that. we need more love. one thing that i do like is that his bullying thing has been a prime focus over the last few years. im not sure how far we have come (would be interested in hearing some testimony from parents who may have noticed some changes)
i know that when i have kids there will be a 0 tolerance policy for any kind of squeezing others out, bullying, or treating others badly because they are different. whether my kid is the bully or the bullied we're not having this sht and i sense society has really moved in this direction. (i hope im not wrong)[/QUOTE]
Yup. He's only 6 months old but I've got a nephew in kindergarten. Strongly agree with doc procta. It's a mental issue.
Any sane/normal civilian will not just snap, kill their mom and then go slaughter kids. Something is chemically off with them from the get go. People that knew this guy and his fam said he was weird.
Society needs to recognize these signs and not sleep on it. Movie theater shooter James Holmes had the same signs and they were ignored too. See the pattern?
We all know you and I would not just switch like that and go shoot up a bunch of kids, a mall, etc... It's not in our DNA.
I'm not a violent guy and I love kids, even more now after having my own. To hurt even a hair on them, well that's just unthinkable. This dude was a sick evil sob.
