Green tea and cortisol - what is the effect?

Having researched plenty on the upds and downs of coffee, I have stopeed drinking it altogether, inlucing the decaf stuff, as i want to do whatever I can to build my muscles into great big lumps of rock.

My training has been modified, my diet is pretty close to where I want it to be, but I am still pondering Green Tea. I can drink it no problem, and enjoy it, and I know the swathes of research on it and the health benefits, but I am confused about one element of Green Tea. Research suggests that Green Tea can reduce cortisol. But it contains caffeine. So how can this be? I dont want to increase cortisol during the day but so much has been said about the benefits of Green Tea that I want to drink it.

So what is the deal with Green Tea (and the caffeine) and its effect on cortisol - I know you can get decaf Green Tea, but that's not the point - research suggests that caffinated green tea reduces cortisol. What am i missing here?

Coffee will not hinder gains. /thread

[QUOTE=poison;812672261]Coffee will not hinder gains. /thread[/QUOTE]

This ^^

If coffee "hind" gains, everyone would be "small", as almost all pwo have it, and almost everyone drink coffee :P

Thanks Poison. So many studies suggest that it inhibits growth and promotes fat retention around the abdominal area due to the prolonged cortisol increase following ingestion. I have struggled to build muscle and want to make sure I do everything I can to help promote growth, hence cutting coffee. But I just struggle to see how green tea, which contains caffeine, can lower cortisol. It seems a contradition??

[QUOTE=AlanApe;812673651]Thanks Poison. So many studies suggest that it inhibits growth and promotes fat retention around the abdominal area due to the prolonged cortisol increase following ingestion. I have struggled to build muscle and want to make sure I do everything I can to help promote growth, hence cutting coffee. But I just struggle to see how green tea, which contains caffeine, can lower cortisol. It seems a contradition??[/QUOTE]

I can see where the studies are coming from if the people in these studies never in their lives had caffeine and got anxious etc, but outside of that, there shouldn't be any problems at all. Drink your tea or coffee :)

[QUOTE=AlanApe;812673651]Thanks Poison. So many studies suggest that it inhibits growth and promotes fat retention around the abdominal area due to the prolonged cortisol increase following ingestion. I have struggled to build muscle and want to make sure I do everything I can to help promote growth, hence cutting coffee. But I just struggle to see how green tea, which contains caffeine, can lower cortisol. It seems a contradition??[/QUOTE]

Nope. In fact, caffeine actually causes an elevation in test, when taken preworkout. In reality, neither effect is strong enough to worry about, and there's a reason nearly every good fatburner includes caffeine. Trust me, working out past 45-60 minutes, sleeping under 8hrs a night, work stress, or nearly getting in a car accident cause way more cortisol release than any nominal release from caffeine intake.

And that's ignoring coffee's effects on alzheimers, parkinsons, diabetes, a host of other diseases, and the fact that it's America's number 2 source of antioxidants. ;)

But whatever, green tea is super awesome as well. As far as I know, tea lowers cortisol when stressed, ie returning the body to homeostasis, not lowering cortisol to lower than usual levels. I'd wager it's due to the l-theanine, but who knows.

Again, unless you're a Tibetan monk on a hilltop watching yaks, the effects of coffee and tea on cortisol, in either direction, arre going to mean NOTHING in the scheme of our stressful Western lives. Drink BOTH green tea and coffee for their effects on overall health. I'd be far more worried about preventing cancer and parkinsons than preventing .008gr abdominal fat gain due to coffee-induced cortisol release.

Well Poison, seeing as you put it that way, whack the kettle on!

I see your point. Perhaps I am getting a bit too concerned about being too strict.

Love the way you got your point accross as well!

Enjoy your caffeinated beverages! Oh, and like most things, moderation is usually key, but the best effects of both green tea AND coffee have been found in those with the highest consumption (I'm talking crazy amounts, that are culturally incomprehensible to us, lol). I'm talking in the order of many cups of green tea a day, or 8+ cups of coffee. Yikes! ;)

Ermmm.......

I would regularly drink more than 8 cups of coffee a day! Every Day!

Perhaps it wasnt a bad idea to stop then lol!

I don't condone that kind of behavior, but the effects on Parkinsons were best in those with the highest coffee consumption. I limit myself to 2 double shots of espresso a day. :)

Any idea how much green tea extract pills you should take a day? I just bought some from holland and Barrett, 315mg green tea extract pills.
And when is best to take the pills, 1 in morning 1 pre workout I'd guess????

Reps for answer

Cheers

I would take one in the morning and one in the evening, preferably post workout or after dinner to help relax you

Honestly, a nice cup of hot tea at night is where its at... the pills probably work better as a source of antioxidants, but the tea is calming and relaxing, and makes you slow down to enjoy your cup

[QUOTE=AlecGaspari;812734661]I would take one in the morning and one in the evening, preferably post workout or after dinner to help relax you

Honestly, a nice cup of hot tea at night is where its at... the pills probably work better as a source of antioxidants, but the tea is calming and relaxing, and makes you slow down to enjoy your cup[/QUOTE]

This ^^

Pills are more "concentrate", but the tea itself, promotes a relaxation...

Dunno why...same thing as using a pre-workout with 135mg/caffeine anhydrous and drink 3 cups of coffee :P

[QUOTE=diguincoutoreis;812736371]This ^^

Pills are more "concentrate", but the tea itself, promotes a relaxation...

Dunno why...same thing as using a pre-workout with 135mg/caffeine anhydrous and drink 3 cups of coffee :P[/QUOTE]

I just imagine it to be relaxing sitting up in my bed late at night, reading for 15-30 minutes before bed and drinking a nice big cup of green tea --- the health benefits from taking some alone time like that at night when you are so busy during the day with work, working out, and the normal stresses of the average american life... immeasureable

Caffeine raises cortisol levels. Period.

It wouldn't matter either way. Exercise does the same thing, so any rise brought upon by the consumption of caffeine would be inconsequential.

Green Tea is caffeinated by the way. It is part of the xanthine group.

The de-stressing quality of green tea is attributable to its theanine content, which increases GABA concentrations in the brain.

[QUOTE=AlecGaspari;812737901]I just imagine it to be relaxing sitting up in my bed late at night, reading for 15-30 minutes before bed and drinking a nice big cup of green tea --- the health benefits from taking some alone time like that at night when you are so busy during the day with work, working out, and the normal stresses of the average american life... immeasureable[/QUOTE]

Haha, i said it, but i don't like tea, #fail ;s

Like more a cup of cold milk :P

[url]http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=11546[/url]

[QUOTE=tubemode12;812741871]Caffeine raises cortisol levels. Period.

It wouldn't matter either way. Exercise does the same thing, so any rise brought upon by the consumption of caffeine would be inconsequential.

Green Tea is caffeinated by the way. It is part of the xanthine group.

This is attributable to the theanine in green tea, which increases GABA concentrations in the brain.[/QUOTE]

Would one 315mg green tea extract pill per day work well as a fat burner??

[QUOTE=seanybabe1986;812744201]Would one 315mg green tea extract pill per day work well as a fat burner??[/QUOTE]

From caffeine point of view, not.
An average serving of brewed coffee contains 145 mg of caffeine, the same serving size of green tea provides 25 mg.

But from point of view of lowering LDL, yep

[QUOTE=tubemode12;812741871]Caffeine raises cortisol levels. Period.

It wouldn't matter either way. Exercise does the same thing, so any rise brought upon by the consumption of caffeine would be inconsequential.

Green Tea is caffeinated by the way. It is part of the xanthine group.

The de-stressing quality of green tea is attributable to its theanine content, which increases GABA concentrations in the brain.[/QUOTE]

Why is there an echo in here?



;)

[QUOTE=poison;812746301]Why is there an echo in here?



;)[/QUOTE]

Someone is wanting REP ;P

[quote=diguincoutoreis;812745551]from caffeine point of view, not.
An average serving of brewed coffee contains 145 mg of caffeine, the same serving size of green tea provides 25 mg.

But from point of view of lowering ldl, yep[/quote]

ldl?

[QUOTE=seanybabe1986;812751431]ldl?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-density_lipoprotein[/url]

Green tea contains L-theanine which produces a calming effect , and is most likely what causes the reduction in cortisol

I think it has to do with how your body reacts to caffeine in general. Not everyone is the same. I also find that too much caffeine raises my cortisol and gives me the jitters. I'm trying to give it up altogether and see if that will help in weight loss/lowering cortisol because I firmly believe too much cortisol hinders weight loss

[QUOTE=naza12345;1449470123]I think it has to do with how your body reacts to caffeine in general. Not everyone is the same. I also find that too much caffeine raises my cortisol and gives me the jitters. I'm trying to give it up altogether and see if that will help in weight loss/lowering cortisol because I firmly believe too much cortisol hinders weight loss[/QUOTE]. Maybe that's because I'm a female and they say something like females take a longer time to detoxify caffiene.

[QUOTE=AlanApe;812673651]Thanks Poison. So many studies suggest that it inhibits growth and promotes fat retention around the abdominal area due to the prolonged cortisol increase following ingestion. I have struggled to build muscle and want to make sure I do everything I can to help promote growth, hence cutting coffee. But I just struggle to see how green tea, which contains caffeine, can lower cortisol. It seems a contradition??[/QUOTE]

I am one of those people that can drink a 12oz cup of Cuban coffee and fall asleep 30-45 min later on the couch.

I regularly consume "Copious" amounts of caffeine daily when on my cuts, and it certainly does not degrade my fat metabolism in any noticeable way.

Not sure what specific research you reference, but everyone is different and many people use caffeine and green tea regularly to aide in fat loss IMHO.

I combine it with Intermittent fasting and do my cardio in the AM fasted.....and the fat pretty much rolls off if I am on point with my macros for the week. At least up until the last few pounds of it. :-) then you get to the stubborn stuff.

-Good Luck
-Tom

If you're worried about cortisol levels take ashwagandha

[QUOTE=AlanApe;812673651]Thanks Poison. So many studies suggest that it inhibits growth and promotes fat retention around the abdominal area due to the prolonged cortisol increase following ingestion. I have struggled to build muscle and want to make sure I do everything I can to help promote growth, hence cutting coffee. But I just struggle to see how green tea, which contains caffeine, can lower cortisol. It seems a contradition??[/QUOTE]


Hi, I completely agree with you. It seems like a contradiction. I haven't drank any caffeine in several months and generally I prefer not to. But sometimes sitting on a desk for 9 hours a day and staring in a screen trying to complete some BS is pretty much impossible without any caffeine. So I was thinking about drinking a bit of green tea which I love. And I was looking to answer the exact same question you posed.

So here is what I found:

Green tea is a cortisol inhibitor, and it may well be a very effective one. Pharmacologists at University Medical School Schleswig-Holstein in Germany discovered this when they did an in-vitro study. Unfortunately it's still too soon to say what the dosage should be.

11-Beta-HSD-1
The enzyme 11-beta-HSD-1 converts the inactive hormone cortisone into the stress hormone cortisol in the body. Another enzyme, 11-beta-HSD-2, converts cortisol back into cortisone.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


If you reduce the action of 11-beta-HSD-1 in lab animals, they lose abdominal fat. Their cells become more insulin sensitive, their cholesterol level improves and their blood pressure goes down. 11-Beta-HSD-1 blockers might be interesting for medicines to treat type 2 diabetes for instance.

Green, black and white tea
In traditional Chinese medicine, tea is used to treat type 2 diabetes. So might tea be an 11-beta-HSD-1 inhibitor?

To try and answer this question the German researchers exposed liver cells to extracts of green, black and white tea, added cortisone to the liver cells and then measured how much cortisol was produced. All three types of tea inhibited the creation of cortisol considerably, but green tea worked best.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


But green tea contains many, many substances. The researchers exposed liver cells to the most important substances found in green tea and then measured how well they inhibited the conversion of cortisone into cortisol.

Two substances, (-)-epigallocatechin gallate [EGCG] and (-)-gallocatechin [GC], turned out to be cortisol inhibitors.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


The researchers used spatial models of 11-beta-HSD-1 to work out how EGCG deactivates the enzyme. The discovered that EGCG takes over the spot in the enzyme that is meant for cortisone. [Figure] As a result the conversion of cortisone into cortisol cannot take place.

Slot
"Our results decipher the mechanism by which catechins such as EGCG, or green tea in general, have been successfully consumed for thousand of years for general health benefits", the researchers wrote. "These polyphenolic compounds may serve as model structures for the development of novel agents to treat the metabolic syndrome and related diseases."

Source:
PLoS One. 2014 Jan 3;9(1):e84468.
More:
Relora reduces stress and lowers cortisol levels 25.04.2014
Combination of L-lysine and L-arginine reduces stress and lowers cortisol levels 21.02.2014

Enjoy.

Wow! great research. Thanks!

[QUOTE=LZ1ELY;1513791491]Hi, I completely agree with you. It seems like a contradiction. I haven't drank any caffeine in several months and generally I prefer not to. But sometimes sitting on a desk for 9 hours a day and staring in a screen trying to complete some BS is pretty much impossible without any caffeine. So I was thinking about drinking a bit of green tea which I love. And I was looking to answer the exact same question you posed.

So here is what I found:

Green tea is a cortisol inhibitor, and it may well be a very effective one. Pharmacologists at University Medical School Schleswig-Holstein in Germany discovered this when they did an in-vitro study. Unfortunately it's still too soon to say what the dosage should be.

11-Beta-HSD-1
The enzyme 11-beta-HSD-1 converts the inactive hormone cortisone into the stress hormone cortisol in the body. Another enzyme, 11-beta-HSD-2, converts cortisol back into cortisone.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


If you reduce the action of 11-beta-HSD-1 in lab animals, they lose abdominal fat. Their cells become more insulin sensitive, their cholesterol level improves and their blood pressure goes down. 11-Beta-HSD-1 blockers might be interesting for medicines to treat type 2 diabetes for instance.

Green, black and white tea
In traditional Chinese medicine, tea is used to treat type 2 diabetes. So might tea be an 11-beta-HSD-1 inhibitor?

To try and answer this question the German researchers exposed liver cells to extracts of green, black and white tea, added cortisone to the liver cells and then measured how much cortisol was produced. All three types of tea inhibited the creation of cortisol considerably, but green tea worked best.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


But green tea contains many, many substances. The researchers exposed liver cells to the most important substances found in green tea and then measured how well they inhibited the conversion of cortisone into cortisol.

Two substances, (-)-epigallocatechin gallate [EGCG] and (-)-gallocatechin [GC], turned out to be cortisol inhibitors.


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


Green tea inhibits cortisol synthesis


The researchers used spatial models of 11-beta-HSD-1 to work out how EGCG deactivates the enzyme. The discovered that EGCG takes over the spot in the enzyme that is meant for cortisone. [Figure] As a result the conversion of cortisone into cortisol cannot take place.

Slot
"Our results decipher the mechanism by which catechins such as EGCG, or green tea in general, have been successfully consumed for thousand of years for general health benefits", the researchers wrote. "These polyphenolic compounds may serve as model structures for the development of novel agents to treat the metabolic syndrome and related diseases."

Source:
PLoS One. 2014 Jan 3;9(1):e84468.
More:
Relora reduces stress and lowers cortisol levels 25.04.2014
Combination of L-lysine and L-arginine reduces stress and lowers cortisol levels 21.02.2014

Enjoy.[/QUOTE]