Smolov Base MesoCycle - Gained +40lbs on Squat 4 weeks. Do it Again..?????

I just ran the Smolov Base Mesocycle. I did not do the 2 weeks before it,nor the Intense Mesocycle afterwards,just the 3 week program with a 4th week of just hitting a PR on Friday.


I did nothing else but the Squats in this time period.

[b][u] Previous Squat[/b][/u] : 275 1RM

[b][u] New Squat[/b][/u] : 315 1RM



It's pretty exciting to finally put up 3 plates. I want to do it again now that I have rested for a week,but I have a question.

Can I add in Upper Body work if I am only training [b]4 days[/b] ? I don't like how far behind my Upper Body is now lagging since I did this.

I tried to Bench the other day,and 225 felt heavy when I used to do 235 for reps.


Was thinking of doing this...limiting it to [b] 4 training sessions [/b] as Smolov is, but with the following:

[b] Monday [/b] -
[i] Squat [/i]
Bench
Tri Work


[b] Wed [/b] -
[i]Squat[/i]
Press
Rows
Pull Ups & Shrugs


[b] Fri [/b] -
[i]Squat[/i]
Bench
Tri Work


[b] Sat [/b] -
[i] Squat [/i]
Rows
Pull Ups & Shrugs



Comes out to:
- [b] Squat x4 for Smolov Requirements [/b]
- Bench x2
- Rows x2
- Pullups 2x
- Tri Work 2x




Yes?no? Opinions

Height? Weight?

IMO, your squat probably could be benefit more from simple linear progression and weight gain.

I am 5'7 and 143 pounds.


I'm sorry,but I don't buy into the 'linear progression' being better for bringing my Squat up.

I have already ran SS, and MadCows 5x5 to the teeth.

SS was absolutely terrible,although it did at least give me a decent base.

MadCows 5x5 was much better, but it took months to get +40 pounds on a Squat.

Not 3 weeks.

3 Weeks for [b]40pounds[/b] is incredible to me.

Can you show me a 'linear' program that adds +40lbs in 3 weeks.I will use it if it exists.



thank you for advice & input. should I run again and can I incorporate the UPPER work?

Your questions indicate, that despite your numbers, you should not be doing Smolov because you're relatively inexperienced.

Do not run it again for at least six months or so. You will not get the same results a second time.

Linear programs are made for slower, but sustainable gains. You've likely gotten everything you're going to get out of Smolov.

[QUOTE=koyongi;758069003]Do not run it again for at least six months or so. You will not get the same results a second time.

Linear programs are made for slower, but sustainable gains. You've likely gotten everything you're going to get out of Smolov.[/QUOTE]


Thank you.

I have read a lot of people's logs though that run the Base Mesocycle several times getting +40-45 pounds each time though. I hope I am being clear in that I am not running the entire 13 week program which includes the Intense Mesocycle from hell. Just the 3 week Base.


I will take your advice, and not run it for 6 months ~

[b] When I run it again,[/b], can I [i] Implement the Upper Body work [/i] ??


Also - what program would you suggest to make the fastest gains with Linear Progression at the 315+ level??

r u prepping for a competition?

i ask, because you appear to be in a hurry of some sort...personally id recommend going on 5/3/1, as its not necessarily linear progression, but its amazing for strength gains in the long haul.

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758072363]Thank you.

I have read a lot of people's logs though that run the Base Mesocycle several times getting +40-45 pounds each time though. I hope I am being clear in that I am not running the entire 13 week program which includes the Intense Mesocycle from hell. Just the 3 week Base.


I will take your advice, and not run it for 6 months ~

[b] When I run it again,[/b], can I [i] Implement the Upper Body work [/i] ??


Also - what program would you suggest to make the fastest gains with Linear Progression at the 315+ level??[/QUOTE]

If you can show me a log where someone got 40+ gains out of the base cycle more than twice starting with any reasonable strength level, I'll give you a dollar.

You can implement upper body work, but only one or two days a week, and it will affect recovery.

A beginner or intermediate 5x5 is still probably your best bet.

peaking programs (like smolov) are for just that, peaking.

Sustainable training long term programming is what you should be using.

multiple iterations of a peaking program will run into diminishing returns quickly.

an increase from 275 to 315 is not very remarkable, unless you are a small woman.

[QUOTE=.aeterna;758073453]r u prepping for a competition?

i ask, because you appear to be in a hurry of some sort...personally id recommend going on 5/3/1, as its not necessarily linear progression, but its amazing for strength gains in the long haul.[/QUOTE]


Yes,my friend and I started lifting about 6 months ago. We are in a competition to see who can hit:

405 Squat/315 Bench/495 Deadlift the fastest.


When we started we both couldn't even squat,bench,or deadlift 135..

I'm really pissed off because he is already at 350squat/260bench/425 deadlift.

i am behind him in everything by about 20-35 pounds.


what pisses me off even more is that he just does this:

squat 5-6x a week
bench 3-4x a week
deadlift 1x a week & romanian deadlift 1x a week
tricep work & rows 2x a week



I would swear he is overtraining,but he just keeps getting bigger and bigger and stronger.



I have to beat him to 405/315/495 or I will never hear the end of it. My bench progression is fine and my Deadlift goes up without me training it while I do lots of Squatting.I literally don't even deadlift and went from 275 to 315 then 315 to 365 then 365 to 385 only doing 1 pull every few weeks.


I know this is dumb, but aside from our competition...I want to make gains as fast as possible.
I don't see why I should do something that doesn't give me gains as fast?it doesn't make sense.


I don't like 5/3/1 because there isn't much of a guarantee,and I don't do well just doing everything 1x a week at my level.


Any other programs?

[QUOTE=koyongi;758076063]If you can show me a log where someone got 40+ gains out of the base cycle more than twice starting with any reasonable strength level, I'll give you a dollar.

You can implement upper body work, but only one or two days a week, and it will affect recovery.

A beginner or intermediate 5x5 is still probably your best bet.[/QUOTE]


I saw the guy,he had a lot of reputation and is in the powerlifter forums.I don't remember his name..he posts frequently and has decently high reputation.His squat was like 550+ raw and he said he ran it 3 times milking 40-45lbs each time :( unless I'm mistaken.


Ok,so I will then put Upper Body work for 2 days next time I run it in a few months.


I will look into some intermediate 5x5's then,but I just hope there's something besides MadCows because I already did that :/

[QUOTE=isaku900;758077723]peaking programs (like smolov) are for just that, peaking.

Sustainable training long term programming is what you should be using.

multiple iterations of a peaking program will run into diminishing returns quickly.

an increase from 275 to 315 is not very remarkable, unless you are a small woman.[/QUOTE]


Ok gotcha.So basically you are saying they will give you the temporary ability to peak for a competition lift?
In a sense,that is basically what I am trying to do(lol). I want to hit the 405 ASAP just once before my friend does..no matter how dumb that sounds. Hey a 4 plate squat is a 4 plate squat..:o


i know 315 isn't amazing,but I know people that spend months to get a 40pound increase on squat.you're right though..


thanks so much for the help,I am forever grateful

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758080683]Ok gotcha.So basically you are saying they will give you the temporary ability to peak for a competition lift?
In a sense,that is basically what I am trying to do(lol). I want to hit the 405 ASAP just once before my friend does..no matter how dumb that sounds. Hey a 4 plate squat is a 4 plate squat..:o
[/QUOTE]

...you're not going to get 90lbs out of smolov running it back to back to back.

[QUOTE=isaku900;758081933]...you're not going to get 90lbs out of smolov running it back to back to back.[/QUOTE]


I understand. thank you very much for telling me so I didn't waste my time : )

Ive ran smolov meso 4x now.
my gain at first was 40lbs and decreased each time i ran it.


dont do it again for a while, keep the squat volume high now though and gradually get back into a normal routine.

[QUOTE=BongoBanger;758097643]Ive ran smolov meso 4x now.
my gain at first was 40lbs and decreased each time i ran it.


dont do it again for a while, keep the squat volume high now though and gradually get back into a normal routine.[/QUOTE]


How much did it decrease each time?

Is there another good Russian program,or Squat program where you Squat 2-3x a week?


I saw this one, does it look any good..


Phase 1 - Volume: 4 weeks, squat twice a week

Workout 1: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 2: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 3 x 6 sets
Workout 3: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 4: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 4 x 6 sets
Workout 5: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 6: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 5 x 6 sets
Workout 7: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 8: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 6 x 6 sets


Phase 2 - Intensity: 4 weeks, squat twice a week

Workout 9: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 10: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 85% x 5 x 5 sets
Workout 11: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 12: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 90% x 4 x 4 sets
Workout 13: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 14: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 95% x 3 x 3 sets
Workout 15: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 16: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 100% x 1, (105% x 1) (110% x 1)
(Attempts in parenthesis are allowed extra PR attempts if the previous attempts were clearly submaximal.)

If you want to continue on with smolov just do the intense phase, read this thread before though

[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=130558523[/url]

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758061343]I am 5'7 and 143 pounds.[/quote]
Then you didn't do Starting Strength.

First, start eating a whole lot more. Second, read this: [url]http://startingstrength.com/articles/clarification_rippetoe.pdf[/url]. Third, get Starting Strength, the book, and actually read it (if you haven't).

[quote]
Can you show me a 'linear' program that adds +40lbs in 3 weeks.I will use it if it exists.[/quote]
While the gains last, Starting Strength tends to add 45lbs per 3 weeks. If you actually do the program, and that includes the diet, this will last 3-9 months. I'd say it is fairly realistic for most healthy, young males to finish over 400+x5 on their squat if they actually do the program. According to Rippetoe, when trainees are dedicated and actually do the program, at his gym in Texas, he adds an average of 300lbs to their 3x5 squat.

I've added 160lbs to my Squat in less than 8 weeks, but part of that is muscle memory and part of it was me starting a little on the light side to work on form. My frame is probably pretty similar to yours. Take that for what you will.

[QUOTE=isaku900;758077723]

Sustainable training long term programming is what you should be using.
[/QUOTE]

A routine that can add up to 100 lbs to your squat in 2 and a half months is a lot more than a peaking cycle.


[QUOTE=isaku900;758077723]
Sustainable training long term programming is what you should be using.
[/QUOTE]

Probably, but smolov works very well for beginners..

[QUOTE=Newbtime;758114443]A routine that can add up to 100 lbs to your squat in 2 and a half months is a lot more than a peaking cycle.




Probably, but smolov works very well for beginners..[/QUOTE]


Oh awesome! This is what I wanted to hear. Ok, I'm just going to continue with the Intense Mesocycle then. I took a weak break already, so woooot :D

Incoming 375 in a few more weeks.

Thanks a lot , I would give you a handshake if I could.

[QUOTE=IzzyT;758109973]Then you didn't do Starting Strength.

First, start eating a whole lot more. Second, read this: Third, get Starting Strength, the book, and actually read it (if you haven't).


While the gains last, Starting Strength tends to add 45lbs per 3 weeks. If you actually do the program, and that includes the diet, this will last 3-9 months. I'd say it is fairly realistic for most healthy, young males to finish over 400+x5 on their squat if they actually do the program. According to Rippetoe, when trainees are dedicated and actually do the program, at his gym in Texas, he adds an average of 300lbs to their 3x5 squat.

I've added 160lbs to my Squat in less than 8 weeks, but part of that is muscle memory and part of it was me starting a little on the light side to work on form. My frame is probably pretty similar to yours. Take that for what you will.[/QUOTE]



No. actually you are wrong.

Just because I am 143 doesn't mean I didn't do Starting Strength. I am probably 6% bodyfat, you can see all my striations of every muscle in my body ( serious ). I know that sounds bad, but I am very strong for my size.


My current maxes are 315/250/405 after having lifted only 6 months.

You can't tell me +200 pounds to Squat in 6 months, or +300 pounds to deadlift in 6 months is bad.

I'm sorry but SS sucked and I'm not doing it again.

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758116643]Oh awesome! This is what I wanted to hear. Ok, I'm just going to continue with the Intense Mesocycle then. I took a weak break already, so woooot :D

Incoming 375 in a few more weeks.

Thanks a lot , I would give you a handshake if I could.[/QUOTE]

Don't completely neglect your bench during smolov though... bench twice a week.... on monday and on thursday would probably be good days.... If you are one of those people that gains on their deadlift from squatting, smolov could be very beneficial...

Just don't continually run smolov over and over... it will end in disaster.

Lifting for only 6 months? noob gains.

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758100063]How much did it decrease each time?

Is there another good Russian program,or Squat program where you Squat 2-3x a week?


I saw this one, does it look any good..


Phase 1 - Volume: 4 weeks, squat twice a week

Workout 1: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 2: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 3 x 6 sets
Workout 3: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 4: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 4 x 6 sets
Workout 5: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 6: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 5 x 6 sets
Workout 7: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 8: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 6 x 6 sets


Phase 2 - Intensity: 4 weeks, squat twice a week

Workout 9: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 10: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 85% x 5 x 5 sets
Workout 11: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 12: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 90% x 4 x 4 sets
Workout 13: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 14: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 95% x 3 x 3 sets
Workout 15: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 80% x 2 x 6 sets
Workout 16: 60% x 3, 70% x 2, 100% x 1, (105% x 1) (110% x 1)
(Attempts in parenthesis are allowed extra PR attempts if the previous attempts were clearly submaximal.)[/QUOTE]
I've done this one. I like it more than Smolov because the highest reps you ever do is 6. The 6x6 day is ****ing brutal. As is the 90% 3x3 infact I injured myself that time and couldn't finish the program

[QUOTE=SmolovLover777;758117413]Just because I am 143 doesn't mean I didn't do Starting Strength. [/quote]
Yes it does. The program prescribes weight gain for someone of your size/weight. Read the link.

[quote]
I am probably 6% bodyfat, you can see all my striations of every muscle in my body ( serious ). I know that sounds bad, but I am very strong for my size.[/quote]
This is great if you want to be a model or have some other goals that require you to weigh very, very little. If you're interested in getting stronger or bigger, this isn't useful or optimal.


[quote]I'm sorry but SS sucked and I'm not doing it again.[/QUOTE]
lol, that's fine, but don't complain about, or knock, the program when you didn't actually do it.

reading more of OP's posts in this thread, I am

[img]http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/entries/icons/original/000/004/095/sadasdasdasd.png?1286725990[/img]


what exactly is your training experience? a guy that weighs 140 and has "striations in every part of his body" has a lot of stones to turn before he needs to be doing something like smolov... when I said for begginers, I meant people that have been training for like two years.... lol...

[QUOTE=Newbtime;758118733]Don't completely neglect your bench during smolov though... bench twice a week.... on monday and on thursday would probably be good days.... If you are one of those people that gains on their deadlift from squatting, smolov could be very beneficial...

Just don't continually run smolov over and over... it will end in disaster.[/QUOTE]



Yeah, I tested my deadlift after the 3 weeks of Smolov Squat. ( did NO deadlifting in between )

Before, it was 365 max. I put on 385, and it went up really easily. 2 Days ago, I put on 405 and it also went up Lol. Zero deadlift training period. :p



I will Bench on Monday & Friday, Press on Wednesday, and add Rows 2x in there.

[QUOTE=Torrtrefireto;758120263]I've done this one. I like it more than Smolov because the highest reps you ever do is 6. The 6x6 day is ****ing brutal. As is the 90% 3x3 infact I injured myself that time and couldn't finish the program[/QUOTE]


Oh wow really? Do you know or can you estimate about how much weight# this 8 week cycle adds to the Squat? I would prefer Squatting 2x a week because it's something I can continue doing more or less rather than some absurd 4x a week program lol.


You didn't injure yourself as a RESULT of the 90% 3x3 right?!?

[QUOTE=IzzyT;758121013]Yes it does. The program prescribes weight gain for someone of your size/weight. Read the link.


This is great if you want to be a model or have some other goals that require you to weigh very, very little. If you're interested in getting stronger or bigger, this isn't useful or optimal.



lol, that's fine, but don't complain about, or knock, the program when you didn't actually do it.[/QUOTE]



Just looked at your stats. I can lift more than you, while weighing ~50 pounds less and having worked out for only 6 months.

Sorry man, like I said. SS sucks. You just proved it by your lifts... (no offense).

[QUOTE=Newbtime;758124553]reading more of OP's posts in this thread, I am



what exactly is your training experience? a guy that weighs 140 and has "striations in every part of his body" has a lot of stones to turn before he needs to be doing something like smolov... when I said for begginers, I meant people that have been training for like two years.... lol...[/QUOTE]



Lol. I have only trained 6 months. I already added +200 to Squat/ +300 to Deadlift in that time period though. : )

Yeah, I know a beginner shouldn't do Smolov,but I went on it and I'm not complaining w/ 40lbs in 3 weeks haha.

In terms of my low body fat % , I actually am just a Bodybuilder. Only reason I am doing these programs is because it's making my strength skyrocket through the roof,and I need to beat my friend in our S/B/D competition. haha