Tribulus Terrestris, does it REALLY increase testosterone? *moved*

I posted this already in the "general" section, sorry. I figure it would do better in the science area.

The following is from howstuffworks.com and wikipedia. Ive been taking this stuff for about a month now, and I'm really not sure if it does what it claims.

"The athletic world touts tribulus terrestris as a natural alternative to artificial steroids. Some people believe using tribulus terrestris can affect the body's muscle composition and improve a person's success with bodybuilding. Tribulus terrestris may contribute to an athlete's improved performance and add to an athlete's muscle mass [source: Monson and Schoenstadt]."

"There are several claims circulating that say tribulus terrestris is both safe and effective in helping athletes build their muscles, and that it avoids all the negative side effects of using steroids. The theory is that there are three chemicals found within the plant that might help foster the growth of muscles and activate the production of testosterone. Those three phytochemicals, meaning chemicals found within a plant, are dioscin, protodioscin and diosgenin [source: Chinese Herbs]."

"It is important to remember that the scientific and medical communities have not yet verified any of the claims made about tribulus terrestris. All of the claims you hear about tribulus terrestris heightening the ability of cells and tissues to absorb the most protein and energy from food are generally speculations based on sparse studies [source: Chinese Herbs]."

Now I've seen some articles on BB.com state that this product is effective in increasing testosterone, but a number of places insist its just speculation and that there are no consistent studies that can prove these facts.

"Animal studies in rats, rabbits and primates have demonstrated that administration of Tribulus terrestris extract can produce statistically significant increases in levels of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone, and produces effects suggestive of aphrodisiac activity. On the other hand, one recent study found that T. terrestris caused no increase in testosterone or LH in young men, and another found that a commercial supplement containing androstenedione and herbal extracts, including T. terrestris, was no more effective at raising testosterone levels than androstenedione alone."

[QUOTE=zergling128;435218371]wikipedia

artificial steroids

theory

the scientific and medical communities have not yet verified any of the claims

are generally speculations

sparse studies

Animal studies in rats, rabbits and primates

T. terrestris caused no increase in testosterone or LH in young men[/QUOTE]


/thread.

However, in terms of it's libido enhancing and/or aphrodisiac properties, Tribululus terrestris does have some clinical merit however, I'll just stick with T-BOL [Tribulus alatus] & yohimbine.

[QUOTE=NO HYPE;435586361]However, in terms of it's libido enhancing and/or aphrodisiac properties, Tribululus terrestris does have some clinical merit however, I'll just stick with T-BOL [Tribulus alatus] & yohimbine.[/QUOTE]

You are a walking encyclopedia No Hype.

tribulus does not work in humans. until we see literature showing tribulus working in humans, i'd steer clear.

[QUOTE=Wikipedia synapses]

theory

the scientific and medical communities have not yet verified any of the claims

are generally speculations

sparse studies

Animal studies in rats, rabbits and primates

T. terrestris caused no increase in testosterone or LH in young men[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=NO HYPE][B]However, in terms of it's libido enhancing and/or aphrodisiac properties, Tribululus terrestris does have some clinical merit[/B][/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=nni;437043991]tribulus does not work in humans.[/QUOTE]


Nice try though.


Int J Androl. 2000;23 Suppl 2:82-4.
[color=blue][B]Phytochemicals and the breakthrough of traditional herbs in the management of sexual dysfunctions.[/B][/color]
Adimoelja A.

Traditional herbs have been a revolutionary breakthrough in the management of erectile dysfunction and have become known world-wide as an 'instant' treatment. The modern view of the management of erectile dysfunction subscribes to a single etiology, i.e. the mechanism of erection. A large number of pharmacological agents are orally consumed and vasoactive agents inserted intraurethrally or injected intrapenially to regain good erection. Modern phytochemicals have developed from traditional herbs. Phytochemicals focus their mechanism of healing action to the root cause, i.e. the inability to control the proper function of the whole body system. Hence phytochemicals manage erectile dysfunction in the frame of sexual dysfunction as a whole entity. [B]Protodioscin is a phytochemical agent derived from Tribulus terrestris L plant, [U]which has been clinically proven to improve sexual desire and enhance erection via the conversion of protodioscine to DHEA (De-Hydro-Epi-Androsterone)[/U]. Preliminary observations suggest that Tribulus terrestris L grown on different soils does not consistently produce the active component Protodioscin.[/B] Further photochemical studies of many other herbal plants are needed to explain the inconsistent results found with other herbal plants, such as in diversities of Ginseng, Eurycoma longifolia, Pimpinella pruacen, Muara puama, Ginkgo biloba, Yohimbe etc.


[QUOTE=nni;437043991]until we see literature showing tribulus working in humans, i'd steer clear.[/QUOTE]

Yeah ok. It has it's benefits in humans, so there is absolutely no reason to "steer clear".

tribulus does not elevate testosterone, their has been a couple studies I read in fitness magazines. I'm not saying it don't help getting wood, I stick to yohimbe for that.

[QUOTE=NO HYPE;437119541]Nice try though.


Int J Androl. 2000;23 Suppl 2:82-4.
[color=blue][B]Phytochemicals and the breakthrough of traditional herbs in the management of sexual dysfunctions.[/B][/color]
Adimoelja A.

Traditional herbs have been a revolutionary breakthrough in the management of erectile dysfunction and have become known world-wide as an 'instant' treatment. The modern view of the management of erectile dysfunction subscribes to a single etiology, i.e. the mechanism of erection. A large number of pharmacological agents are orally consumed and vasoactive agents inserted intraurethrally or injected intrapenially to regain good erection. Modern phytochemicals have developed from traditional herbs. Phytochemicals focus their mechanism of healing action to the root cause, i.e. the inability to control the proper function of the whole body system. Hence phytochemicals manage erectile dysfunction in the frame of sexual dysfunction as a whole entity. [B]Protodioscin is a phytochemical agent derived from Tribulus terrestris L plant, [U]which has been clinically proven to improve sexual desire and enhance erection via the conversion of protodioscine to DHEA (De-Hydro-Epi-Androsterone)[/U]. Preliminary observations suggest that Tribulus terrestris L grown on different soils does not consistently produce the active component Protodioscin.[/B] Further photochemical studies of many other herbal plants are needed to explain the inconsistent results found with other herbal plants, such as in diversities of Ginseng, Eurycoma longifolia, Pimpinella pruacen, Muara puama, Ginkgo biloba, Yohimbe etc.




Yeah ok. It has it's benefits in humans, so there is absolutely no reason to "steer clear".[/QUOTE]

im sorry, i thought the op was asking about it boosting test and that was what i was answering. in hindsight, thats exactly the scenario, but im glad you had your opportunity to be a douche.

[QUOTE=nni]I thought the op was asking about it boosting test and that was what i was answering.[/QUOTE]

The fact that there is no evidence that Tribulus terrestris influences testosterone [was already established] prior to your post, yet you implied that Tribulus terrestris "does not work in humans" and to "steer clear". Well obviously it does work in humans and aquires verified clinical merit. Great reason to "steer clear" of a substance that provides physiological benefits.


[QUOTE=NNI]im glad you had your opportunity to be a douche.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of douches.... did you consider the fact that Tribulus terrestris DOES work in humans, prior to your false statement? Brilliant logic.

[QUOTE=NO HYPE;437215351]The fact that there is no evidence that Tribulus terrestris influences testosterone [was already established] prior to your post, yet you implied that Tribulus terrestris "does not work in humans" and to "steer clear". Well obviously it does work in humans and aquires verified clinical merit. Great reason to "steer clear" of a substance that provides physiological benefits.




Speaking of douches.... did you consider the fact that Tribulus terrestris DOES work in humans, prior to your false statement? Brilliant logic.[/QUOTE]

no, the question was does it boost test, my answer was a direct response to that. forgive me for not considering your word as the end all be all thread ending of posts and adding my own opinion, (i didnt see the op's request that nobody post after NO HYPE did). your response to me was completely unnecessary but you love pointless arguments such as this one. you enjoy reading what you see, not what was meant and will create a circular argument until you feel you are correct. essentially its sad. but to make it clear again...

thread: does trib boost test?
my response: not in humans, steer clear.

thats really all, if you want to argue if there are other benefits in humans, then that is another thread. i would hope anyone who has graduated high school would have gotten that, but for you, again i will make myself even clearer by explaining my original post.

nni: [op, to answer your question, does tribulus boost test, from my research] tribulus does not work in humans [for boosting test]. [in continuance of answering your question of whether tribulus will boost test,] until we see literature showing tribulus working in humans [for the purpose of boosting test levels], i'd steer clear [of tribulus as an option for the purpose of boosting test in humans].

see how redundant that is when answering a direct question? do you see how your little attack on me was completely pointless? of course you dont, youve been pulling this same crap for years. by all means though do what makes you happy. hopefully we are done here though.

[QUOTE=nni;437231951]your response to me was completely unnecessary[/QUOTE]

You'd like to think so.



[QUOTE=nni;437231951]thread: does trib boost test?
my response: not in humans[/QUOTE]

thread: does trib boost test?
your response: tribulus [U]does not work[/U] in humans.



[QUOTE=nni;437231951]if you want to argue if there are other benefits in humans, then that is another thread.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of high school and/or the elementary insults that you so often use when you are wrong.... your "does not work in humans" statement was not specific to Tribulus's lack of effects on testosterone, but rather, to [any] physiological effects on humans. Your statement was irrefutably false, and I called you on it. Get over it.

[QUOTE=NO HYPE;437256271]You'd like to think so.





thread: does trib boost test?
your response: tribulus [U]does not work[/U] in humans.





Speaking of high school and/or the elementary insults that you so often use when you are wrong.... your "does not work in humans" statement was not specific to Tribulus's lack of effects on testosterone, but rather, to [any] physiological effects on humans. Your statement was irrefutably false, and I called you on it. Get over it.[/QUOTE]

It's amazing that you still can create an argument. I explained myself very clearly and you still do not understand. There is nothing more that I can do, believe what you will.

It's obviously a conspiracy set up by nni to get people to purchase ActX instead of T-BOL...no question about it.

:p

NO HYPE...I must ask...is there a reason you get so aggressive with other forum members?

You can admit it...you on the trib?

nni frequently does not use the quote feature available on this site even when replying directly to one specific post. The use of this basic forum etiquette would help resolve many misunderstandings. While nni may have intended to reply to the OP, it's abundantly clear how his response of 'it doesn't work in humans' could have been understood as a reply to NO HYPE's statements regarding libido effects.

That said, NO HYPE's logic and response is sound, any personal history the members involved may have aside. It was a misunderstanding, but as an unbiased observer reading from the top, nni was vague and unclear if you read his post and don't infer. And he was the first to take it personal and sling insults.

Food for thought. I'm not going to debate it as there is no "point" to be made. Simply stating my observations.

[QUOTE=nni;437043991]tribulus does not work in humans. until we see literature showing tribulus working in humans, i'd steer clear.[/QUOTE]


[QUOTE=nni;437043991]trib is margininaly good at raising test at best, and most trib products dont have a proper extract.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=10685528&postcount=4[/url]

[QUOTE=ZDub212;437272611]NO HYPE...I must ask...is there a reason you get so aggressive with other forum members?[/QUOTE]

You imply that I am aggressive, yet nni is the one throwing insults around due to the fact that I called him on his false statement?

[QUOTE=|ceman;437342401]While nni may have intended to reply to the OP, it's abundantly clear how his response of 'it doesn't work in humans' could have been understood as a reply to NO HYPE's statements regarding libido effects.

That said, NO HYPE's logic and response is sound, any personal history the members involved may have aside. It was a misunderstanding, but as an unbiased observer reading from the top, nni was vague and unclear if you read his post and don't infer. And he was the first to take it personal and sling insults.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for being so observant. Very fair and balanced perception. Repped for seeing the truth of the matter.

[QUOTE=NO HYPE;437352961]You imply that I am aggressive, yet nni is the one throwing insults around due to the fact that I called him on his false statement?[/QUOTE]

I certainly didn't imply it...I just said it point blank. :p

I'm certainly not here to call you out. It was just playful humor, not meant to be taken seriously. I shall withdraw.