Fat intake during bulk

As seen in the sticky, i can determine fat intake from arbitrary numbers (1~2*kg body weight)


should i go for the high, or the low intake?
from people diets, it seems like in bulk you need high fat intake, is that true, and if so why?

I prefer to bulk on [b]very[/b] high fat. The impact on testosterone and various anabolic hormones, it is calorically dense, tastes good etc. My own observations are that low-fat bulks do not work out very well unless you are injecting your hormones for most people.

Generally speaking, the recomended dietary fat intake (to meet sufficiency) is 0.45 to 1.0 grams per pound of bodyweight. However, when cutting some or for the obese, the figure is a bit different. For detail information, please [url=http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121703981&welcome=true]see here[/url].

That said, people express considerable variance in terms of preference for fat and CHO intake. Experiment and find what range works best for you.

For example, I consume more than 1 gram of fat per pound of bodyweight (~2.6 grams per kg). That works well for me.

I know sufficent fat intake is crucial for good development of anabolic hormones, but more fat is more hormones? can you/anyone support it?

and thanks for the comments

On my higher calorie bulks in the past my prefered fat source was heavy cream, butter, red meat, whole eggs, sometimes evoo, and supplimenting omega 3s.. I generally avoid vegetable oil and prefer saturated fat to loading up heavy on mono-unsatured, other than evoo sometimes. I feel that my strength ramps up faster and my recovery is better when I am eating a lot of saturated fat, having experimented over the years with various foods, macro breakdowns etc for bulking.

[QUOTE=JasonDB;778375823]I feel that my strength ramps up faster and my recovery is better when I am eating a lot of saturated fat, having experimented over the years with various foods, macro breakdowns etc for bulking.[/QUOTE]Same here, but some folks seem to require much less dietary fat than others and some folks require much more CHO than others.

[i]It is highly variable and you need to experiment to find the range that is optimal for you.[/i]

[QUOTE=WonderPug;778376223]Same here, but some folks seem to require much less dietary fat than others and some folks require much more CHO than others.[/QUOTE]

This is also true. I am on the extreme end and found the anabolic diet (my own modified version of it) to work very well for bulking for me. I do not really need carbs every day to put up new PR's and seem to get more out of saturated fat than CHO intake. As long as I carb up at least once a week I can go days without them and continue to see progressive overload. Some people simply cannot do this.

I am currently trying to bulk up myself and found this post to be intriguing, I wanted to see how people were going to way in on this topic because I thought I was going about it wrong because I was choosing to consume more fats than carbs while trying to bulk up, As previously referred to I actually feel better doing this, I know the general rule of thumb is that carbs are used for energy but I actually feel more energetic than ever before when consuming more fats especially the saturated fats. Maybe its the hormonal response? (which wouldn't be a bad thing lol)

Around 0.5 grams per pound of BW would work for most people.
Of course you need to experiment and establish what is better for you personally.

[QUOTE=JasonDB;778374653] My own observations are that low-fat bulks do not work out very well unless you are injecting your hormones for most people.[/QUOTE]

Be careful about over-generalizations based on personal anecdotal experiences.

It's highly variable individual to individual.

Example: Cumulonimbus keeps dietary fat relatively low and CHO very high and has T well over 900 ng/dL.

[QUOTE=HunterCML;778450763]Be careful about over-generalizations based on personal anecdotal experiences.

It's highly variable individual to individual.

Example: Cumulonimbus keeps dietary fat relatively low and CHO very high and has T well over 900 ng/dL.[/QUOTE]

Very very true and I also understand I am on one of the extremes on the curve, and Cumul seems to be on the other end (and we both seem to fall into the category of the genetically elite in terms of hormone production). I do think most people are overly scared of saturated fat on their bulks however and it does impede their progress, although most of them would not need to go as extreme as I do for optimal gains.

[QUOTE=JasonDB;778457043](and we both seem to fall into the category of the genetically elite in terms of hormone production)[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I don't know that feel bro. Feelsbadman.

[QUOTE=HunterCML;778450763]Example: Cumulonimbus keeps dietary fat relatively low and CHO very high and has T well over 900 ng/dL.[/QUOTE]

dont forget...he was a kid of 18yrs old. test levels of any 18yr old male are sky high. so we really cant tell if his diet has anything to do with high test levels.

[QUOTE=MAX.MAREK;778458763]dont forget...he was a kid of 18yrs old. test levels of any 18yr old male are sky high. so we really cant tell if his diet has anything to do with high test levels.[/QUOTE]

Yeah his age is a factor of course... on my super high fat diet and I was at 804 ng/dL at age 34 on my last blood test. Needless to say I won't qualify for HRT at 35... sigh. LoL

Gosh, people stop talking if you have really no idea what you are talking about.

In re: Paul.

[QUOTE=juliacheh;778461243]Gosh, people stop talking if you have really no idea what you are talking about.

In re: Paul.[/QUOTE]

Did Hunter misrepresent something regarding Paul's testosterone levels or diet? I did not see the thread(s) he is referencing.

[QUOTE=JasonDB;778459773]Yeah his age is a factor of course... on my super high fat diet and I was at 804 ng/dL at age 34 on my last blood test. Needless to say I won't qualify for HRT at 35... sigh. LoL[/QUOTE]

see, so perhaps dude didnt need high fat intake due to his age being on his side, ya know? personally, when it comes to bulk, CHO > fat intake. size comes better n faster for me, and i definitely feel more satisfied, plus my well-being is better. BUT, make sure to have a fat intake of .5-.75g per lb LBM during the bulk. fats are important no matter what.

[QUOTE=JasonDB;778464183]Did Hunter misrepresent something regarding Paul's testosterone levels or diet? I did not see the thread(s) he is referencing.[/QUOTE]

Yes, because he doesn't have the full information and we should not really discuss Paul/his test levels in this thread. As I said 0.5 grams per pound of BW should work for most and it's not low fat diet by any means.

[QUOTE=juliacheh;778466783]Yes, because he doesn't have the full information and we should not really discuss Paul/his test levels in this thread.[/QUOTE]

I've talked to Paul personally about dietary fat and hormonal regulation [i]outside[/i] of BB.com; I also used him as a relevant example about individual variability. Furthermore I didn't say anything that Paul himself would not have been comfortable posting ITT.

I feel much better on higher fat than higher carbs. At about 3200 cals/day now and fats are usually over 130g and carbs under 300g.