Stomach Vacuums (For Six Pack?)

I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.

So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial? [b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b] Anybody have experience with stomach vacuums?

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.

So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial? [b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b] Anybody have experience with stomach vacuums?[/QUOTE]

I am also interested in knowing this

Visible abs are the product of strict nutrition, not any ab exercise or pose. Reduce your bodyfat to around 10%, and you'll see abs.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684670421]Visible abs are the product of strict nutrition, not any ab exercise or pose. Reduce your bodyfat to around 10%, and you'll see abs.[/QUOTE]

So there is really no point doing any ab exercises?

[QUOTE=LeLeve;684671821]So there is really no point doing any ab exercises?[/QUOTE]

no, the exercises tones and further defines them, but, you will never see them doing all the ab work in the world unless you get lean enough for them to show. i only work my abs twice a week, i leave the rest to clean diet and cutting.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.

So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial? [b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b] Anybody have experience with stomach vacuums?[/QUOTE]

no....waistline is really about genetics, i have a bud who did strict stomach vacuums for months with his ab work, helped a little...but not enough to count, waist size is really about genetics, for instance, my friend doing all those stomach vacuums, my waist is genetically very small and narrow, so still, my waist was much smaller.

For whatever its worth, I think stomach vaccums work at what I believe they're meant to do and that is sucking the waist in so your stomach doesn't stick out. I've seen lots of guys with abs but their stomach still sticks further out than say their chest even if just by a bit. I think the stomach vaccum helps get the look similar to Arnold's where your waist is very narrow but still showing off that six pack.

I don't have a 6 pack. Right now all I can see are my 2 top abs(before you laugh, thats actually a pretty big accomplishment for me). But stomach vaccums have already worked. I went from a 36 waist jean size to a 30 within 2 months. Yet only lost about 2 pounds. I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to cleaning up my diet but I really think the stomach vaccums helped. It also has helped with my posture a lot, which i've learned good posture instantly makes you look better.

[QUOTE=MB35;684676681]For whatever its worth, I think stomach vaccums work at what I believe they're meant to do and that is sucking the waist in so your stomach doesn't stick out. I've seen lots of guys with abs but their stomach still sticks further out than say their chest even if just by a bit. I think the stomach vaccum helps get the look similar to Arnold's where your waist is very narrow but still showing off that six pack.

I don't have a 6 pack. Right now all I can see are my 2 top abs(before you laugh, thats actually a pretty big accomplishment for me). But stomach vaccums have already worked. I went from a 36 waist jean size to a 30 within 2 months. Yet only lost about 2 pounds. I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to cleaning up my diet but I really think the stomach vaccums helped. It also has helped with my posture a lot, which i've learned good posture instantly makes you look better.[/QUOTE]

hmm..debatable, but im not laughing man, congrats on the weight loss, keep it up! i use to be REALLY fat, so I can relate to losing weight, it feels great, just keep going hard until your seeing all of your abs, two down, four to go :)

[QUOTE=LoneWolf720;684682731]hmm..debatable, but im not laughing man, congrats on the weight loss, keep it up![/QUOTE]

i'm not laughing either, my abs are no better than yours. and thanks for the great resonses, i repped both of you.

so my conclusion is:
If stomach vacuums actually do shrink the waistline, they will not effect whether or not you have visible abs. Visible abs are primarily a product of a low body fat % and secondarily of having large abs. Shrinking the waistline with stomach vacuums does not increase the visibility of abs.

does this sound right?

[QUOTE=LeLeve;684671821]So there is really no point doing any ab exercises?[/QUOTE]

Not if all you care about is seeing your abs. You can do Crunches/Leg Raises/Ab Wheels/Whatever ab exercise until the cows come home; if you're fat, you'll never see your abs.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684687931]Not if all you care about is seeing your abs. You can do Crunches/Leg Raises/Ab Wheels/Whatever ab exercise until the cows come home; if you're fat, you'll never see your abs.[/QUOTE]

thanks for the input, and i may have to steal that Alan Aragon quote from you :D

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684687931]Not if all you care about is seeing your abs. You can do Crunches/Leg Raises/Ab Wheels/Whatever ab exercise until the cows come home; if you're fat, you'll never see your abs.[/QUOTE]

eh, the problem i have with this post is that im less than 15% body fat and my abs are visible, but theyd be more visible if i did ab exercises and increased the size of the muscles.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684687211]i'm not laughing either, my abs are no better than yours. and thanks for the great resonses, i repped both of you.

so my conclusion is:
If stomach vacuums actually do shrink the waistline, they will not effect whether or not you have visible abs. Visible abs are primarily a product of a low body fat % and secondarily of having large abs. Shrinking the waistline with stomach vacuums does not increase the visibility of abs.

does this sound right?[/QUOTE]

yes your getting it on point now. but, seeing them, not even about having large abs, i have never worked my abs with weights, in fact i only use one ab exercise ever, yet i still have a six pack because i know how to get lean enough for them to show.

simplifying it, read below

seeing abs: low bodyfat 10% and below (maybe even lower depending on your genetics)
toning abs and making them appear more cut and defined: ab exercises

just remember, you must see them, to see how defined and toned they are.

[QUOTE=mmafighter1294;684689291]eh, the problem i have with this post is that im less than 15% body fat and my abs are visible, but theyd be more visible if i did ab exercises and increased the size of the muscles.[/QUOTE]

less than 15% leaves a big gap telling us how lean you are......that said, try getting into the 7-8% bodyfat before doing any ab work, i bet you will you agree with him then.

[QUOTE=LoneWolf720;684691121]yes your getting it on point now. but, seeing them, not even about having large abs, i have never worked my abs with weights, in fact i only use one ab exercise ever, yet i still have a six pack because i know how to get lean enough for them to show.

simplifying it, read below

seeing abs: low bodyfat 10% and below (maybe even lower depending on your genetics)
toning abs and making them appear more cut and defined: ab exercises

just remember, you must see them, to see how defined and toned they are.[/QUOTE]

ok, thank you!

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684689061] and i may have to steal that Alan Aragon quote from you :D[/QUOTE]

Please do, by all means. (srs) I don't know of [i]anyone, anywhere,[/i] who works harder to dispell nutritional broscience, myth, and bullsh*t than Alan.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684694241]Please do, by all means. (srs) I don't know of [i]anyone, anywhere,[/i] who works harder to dispell nutritional broscience, myth, and bullsh*t than Alan.[/QUOTE]

yeah, i used to believe in the whole dextrose/simple carbs post-workout thing until i read his January 2008 Research Review. it made me feel stupid.

I used to do a lot of vacuums and thought they were excellent for abdominal strength and control. They hit the transverse abdominal pretty well if I recall.

Not gonna give you abs but they will help in a sense that you will tense your abs more like mentioned above. This will increase "tone" in a sense that they will be in a contracted state even at rest.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684700541]yeah, i used to believe in the whole dextrose/simple carbs post-workout thing until i read his January 2008 Research Review. it made me feel stupid.[/QUOTE]

Well, I went the bro route for [i]15 years.[/i] And while I made good progress slugging down [i]thousands[/i] of dollars worth of protein powder, "fast" carbs, and "gainers," and ran myself ragged trying to keep up with the whole "eat every 3 hours" schtick, and worrying myself to death if I missed even [i]one[/i] meal, I eventually found Alan Aragon here on BB.com, and the fog lifted.

Stick with Alan and you'll go far. He speaks the [i]plain[/i] truth.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684754111]Well, I went the bro route for [i]15 years.[/i] And while I made good progress slugging down [i]thousands[/i] of dollars worth of protein powder, "fast" carbs, and "gainers," and ran myself ragged trying to keep up with the whole "eat every 3 hours" schtick, and worrying myself to death if I missed even [i]one[/i] meal, I eventually found Alan Aragon here on BB.com, and the fog lifted.

Stick with Alan and you'll go far. He speaks the [i]plain[/i] truth.[/QUOTE]

very true!

I do think stomach vacuums are a great exercise for the TVA and overall abdominal control...a lot of the greats in arnolds time including him dude them to prevent the stomach from protruding...todays pro bodybuilders most likely do not do them hence why they have beer looking bellies with shredded abs...i prefer arnolds look :D

[QUOTE=XxCashMoneyxX;684757721]very true!

I do think stomach vacuums are a great exercise for the TVA and overall abdominal control...a lot of the greats in arnolds time including him dude them to prevent the stomach from protruding...todays pro bodybuilders most likely do not do them hence why they have beer looking bellies with shredded abs...i prefer arnolds look :D[/QUOTE]

AFAIK the "beer belly" is from HGH use.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.[/quote]Both methods will reduce waistline.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial?[/quote]When I think about what the muscle does, I think "no", but when I look in the mirror and notice how sucking in my gut actually makes the RA slightly visible through my fat, I think "yes". I'm not really sure, but I think the muscle is good. Visible abs are great, but having them visible without a distended abdomen that portrudes past your ribs is greater still.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741][b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b][/QUOTE]No, the vacuums constrict the tissue lying underneath the rectus abdominis. It would not shrink the muscle, it would simply make it bulge out less. This is kind of like "will exhaling reverse the effects of my pec training?" No, the pectoralis major retains its bulk, it's just if you tend to inhale into your rib cage then obviously exhaling would shrink the rib cage and the pecs wouldn't portrude as visibly away from the spine.

[QUOTE=LeLeve;684671821]So there is really no point doing any ab exercises?[/QUOTE]There is a strong point, if you build the muscle you don't need to drop as much fat to see them. They also help your posture.

[QUOTE=LoneWolf720;684673361]no, the exercises tones and further defines them[/quote]Tones?
[QUOTE=LoneWolf720;684673361]you will never see them doing all the ab work in the world unless you get lean enough for them to show.[/quote]That said, the leanness required to see depends on the size of the abs. If youre abs are twice as big, you're probably going to see them even with more fat on top. The % thing is also confusing depending on overall weight. A 100lb guy with 10% bodyfat has 10lbs of fat, a portion of which is on his midsection. If he bulks up to 150lbs and maintains 10% bodyfat, he now has 15lbs of fat spread around. This will actually make his abs less visible assuming he has the same amount of fat covering them, but assuming some of the lean mass he gained is in his rectus abdominis, that can probably compensate and make them as visible as before, or maybe more or less.

[QUOTE=LoneWolf720;684675121]no....waistline is really about genetics, i have a bud who did strict stomach vacuums for months with his ab work, helped a little...but not enough to count, waist size is really about genetics, for instance, my friend doing all those stomach vacuums, my waist is genetically very small and narrow, so still, my waist was much smaller.[/QUOTE]
Ugh, say genes plz. Rib cage and pelvis width may be about genes, but as for midsection size, while the % of our fat we put there is influenced by them, it is also influenced by hormonal balances and how much fat we're carrying in total, both of which are a product of lifestyle.

[QUOTE=ironwill2008;684687931]Not if all you care about is seeing your abs. You can do Crunches/Leg Raises/Ab Wheels/Whatever ab exercise until the cows come home; if you're fat, you'll never see your abs.[/QUOTE]People aren't fat, though all people are fatty :) The fattier people should probably burn off some triglycerides.

[QUOTE=Kirra;684777901]AFAIK the "beer belly" is from HGH use.[/QUOTE]Hard to say, could also be from gassy bloating depending on how they're eating right?

[QUOTE=Tyciol;685188711]Both methods will...[/QUOTE]

wow, thanks everyone for the great responses! the exercise forum is the best. :)

Stomach vacuums active the TVA (Transversus abdominis muscle) this is a deep core muscle which is responsible for pulling the abdominal wall back and prevent it from protruding foward, so this will somewhat help keep your waist tight and small.

At low bodyfat the TVA is what causes the "adonis belt" which is the v cut lines going from the obliques down to the groin.

A strong transverse muscle = strong core, so when you squat and deadlift it's the same principle as the belt, but the transverse is the belt.

[QUOTE=JOSEF RAKICH;685301901]Stomach vacuums active the TVA (Transversus abdominis muscle) this is a deep core muscle which is responsible for pulling the abdominal wall back and prevent it from protruding foward, so this will somewhat help keep your waist tight and small.

At low bodyfat the TVA is what causes the "adonis belt" which is the v cut lines going from the obliques down to the groin.[/QUOTE]

This sounds cool, I've been having trouble picturing the muscle in spite of seeing illustrations in anatomy, did not make this connection.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.

So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial? [b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b] Anybody have experience with stomach vacuums?[/QUOTE]


Very good question to be fair

Im wondering the answer to this also but all i can offer at the moment is this

The ab vacuming thing was a "tool" bodybuilders used to use back when bodybuilding became a major thing ( 50s -90s ). Back then.. the physique of the Pro bodybuilders counted of size and aesthetics ( Different specs to which modern day bodybuilders go by ) Although size and aesthetics are still two of a few specs modern bodybuilders go by, back in the day it was different. They aimed much more for a " V " Shaped body - by this i mean small waist and big chest

So old school some old bodybuilders used this vacuum thing to achieve that - unfortunatley i cant name any, id like to know though!

Modern bodybuilding is different in the sense of the " V " Shaped torso now - For example have you notice how modern day bodybuilders have BIG thick abs that are not flat yet they sort of Protrude ( in some cases just as far as their chest does or maybe further ) This isnt fat.. this is simply big.. thick.. dense muscles in their abb region - which means more muscle.. thus more size and so on - yet they still look perfectly acceptable for the event in which they are competing in


After this change was made ^ (more muscles and size - more important than the V style waist ) a new event was entered known as the Mens Physique - This follows a different specification than the Pro Bodybuilders

Its simply to look aesthetic and big! not about the amount of muscle but how it is sculpted to look as good as possible for a male physique. The old specification of having a V shaped torso was carried over into this catagory ( mens physique )

While the big.. as much as possible muscle mass continued to stay in the Pro Bodybuilding catagory and not care so much about the thin waists

- This may be irrelivant too you but uhh... Yeah if you could find out somehow of the old bodybuilders and what their tactics were ( the ones with small waists ) perhaps reseach them !
- Other wise search modern day mens physique competators and see what their tactic is ( whether they use vacuuming )

im not sure Vacuuming is beneficial but.. as with everything i'd say give it a try, im going too i think.

You will never be wrong if you speak from a truthful experiance and hold the rewards and failures of that experiance, People are correct when they say abs are made in the kitchen and you need to lower your body fat to see them ( as long as you have them ) - so with this i assume you need to .. build abs - use vacuming to tuck it all together and lose your fat around there to see the annoying ****ers.

Good luck & im trying it as you are!

^ Strong bump there, last post was 3 years ago. OP even though you probably wont read this, I'm not entirely sure of their effectiveness but Lazar Angelov incorporates them into the end of his ab routines, and he looks like a fkn spartan.

[QUOTE=xPapaGx;684577741]I've read that stomach vacuums are excellent for shrinking your waistline. Just thinking through it logically, your waistline must shrink because you habitually suck in your abs, not because you have less abdominal fat.

So if my goal was a six pack, would stomach vacuums even be beneficial? [b]Wouldn't stomach vacuums just reverse the effects of low-rep ab training, which increase abdominal size?[/b] Anybody have experience with stomach vacuums?[/QUOTE]

Im not gonna look up what it really is and just keep imagining it.