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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747293733]This doesn't make sense to me, concentrating on the movement is the way to greater poundages.[/QUOTE]
Female friend at the gym (competitor over 40) and I were discussing this yesterday morning after cardio. She made the remark that too many guys sacrifice form so that they can go heavier. My reply was similar to what ljimd implied: "I've learned to leave my age and ego in the locker before I walk out. That said, by concentrating on form and safety, my strength has increased substantially over the last couple of years and I'm not ashamed at all with regard to what I bench, deadlift and squat. Furthermore, tho, its not what I could do in my 20's and 30's, it's a lot more than what I could do 10 to 15 years ago.
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747294003]I'm not sure I agree, define "old age" and "younger days".[/QUOTE]
I know a few guys in their 50's who bench near 400lbs or more but none of them started benching in their 50's. A general example but a good one. Old is old, the descriptor dosen't bother me because while there's no denying the decline of age it still dosen't define me. If you deny reality it will always be there in your head causing anxiety but if you accept it then it is nothing.
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[QUOTE=JRT6;747317403]I know a few guys in their 50's who bench near 400lbs or more but none of them started benching in their 50's. [/QUOTE]
I benched 407 in a powerlifting meet in April 2010. I never benched more than 225 before I was 42 ( when I started training with the local powerlifting group ). But I'm not built to bench, my deadlift is a better example. I NEVER deadlifted, not once before I was 42, the first time I could barely do 315. But now my max is around 625. I know there will be a time when age is a factor, but 45 isn't it, and 40 definitely isn't it ( not even close, IMHO ).
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[QUOTE=Guinea-pig;746046193]Unfortunately age is something you can't change. And after about age 45-50 in most cases it is tough to continue building muscle mass and staying injury free when pushing the envelope.[/QUOTE]
It's tough but not impossible to continue building mass after 45. I increased my lean mass through my late 40s' and 50's. My muscle mass at my current age is still within 95% of my maximum level during that period. I attribute the reduction to keeping my body fat below 9%. In the process of going for averaging 13% bodyfat to averaging below 9% I lose some muscle mass. I have been careful to avoid pushing the envelope to avoid injuries.
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Can't say that I wouldn't rule out age, along with overtraining, too. I'm 39, and I no longer train as I did, when I was 24. (I'm currently out of shape, though) But looking back, I allowed my ego to blind me, back then. If I put my mind to it, I'm curious if I can attain a good degree of aesthetic results with less weight and excellent form, without the 300 pound bench sets and 400 pound squats. In other words, I'm open to modifying my routine to accommodate my age, which is probably a good thing, because it would force me to train smarter. But overall, I think the most important thing, at any age, is good health and quality of life brought about by remaining an active person. I've seen people age, literally, once they stop being active. At your age, count your blessings, if you aren't dealing with diabetes, high blood pressure, and the many other ailments that are starting to creep up on middle-aged folks. Dealing the frustration of injuries, while trying to train like a young man is a blessing in itself, if that's your only concern. ;-)
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[QUOTE=MarioNTexas;747597413]
If I put my mind to it, I'm curious if I can attain a good degree of aesthetic results with less weight and excellent form
[/QUOTE]
I see a lot of comments like that on here, and I really don't understand where it's coming from, excellent form is the way/reason to lift MORE weight not less.
[QUOTE=MarioNTexas;747597413]
I'm open to modifying my routine to accommodate my age, which is probably a good thing, because it would force me to train smarter.
[/QUOTE]
There's no reason to accommodate your age for a 39 year old, if there are health issues or prior injuries you address those but otherwise, IMHO it's not smart to limit yourself.
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747358543]I benched 407 in a powerlifting meet in April 2010. I never benched more than 225 before I was 42 ( when I started training with the local powerlifting group ). But I'm not built to bench, my deadlift is a better example. I NEVER deadlifted, not once before I was 42, the first time I could barely do 315. But now my max is around 625. I know there will be a time when age is a factor, but 45 isn't it, and 40 definitely isn't it ( not even close, IMHO ).[/QUOTE]
You have to admit you are an exception. I don't disagree though that the 40's are still a time of serious strength potential.
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[QUOTE=JRT6;747609353]You have to admit you are an exception. [/QUOTE]
I think the only reason I'm an exception is because most people don't push themselves because they think they're too old.
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Strength without flexibility leads to many unbalances and injuries. As I have gotten older I notice that I REQUIRE 20 min of deep stretching each day after my workouts. Gone are my knots and much of the soreness. I used to get horrible knots in my upper back and shoulders especially. Also my lower back was very tight-- I find a 30 min cardio warm up helps also before lifting.
Least this is what seems to be working for me..
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[QUOTE=BlondeAmazon;747689343]As I have gotten older I notice that I REQUIRE 20 min of deep stretching each day after my workouts.
[/QUOTE]
I do a lot of stretching as well. Strongman also requires flexibility. No matter how strong you are, if you're not able to get low enough to get your hands under an atlas stone, you'll never pick it up off the ground.
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747600383]I see a lot of comments like that on here, and I really don't understand where it's coming from, excellent form is the way/reason to lift MORE weight not less.
There's no reason to accommodate your age for a 39 year old, if there are health issues or prior injuries you address those but otherwise, IMHO it's not smart to limit yourself.[/QUOTE]
Exactly ...
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747641983]I think the only reason I'm an exception is because most people don't push themselves because they think they're too old.[/QUOTE]
And right again, the only difference between a younger lifter and an older lifter say over 45 is recovery from injuries not so much getting injured .
Every athlete in any sport will suffer some kind of injuries and mostly related to their sport, for lifters isn't any different if you are dedicated and do it with the intensity required to be "good" or at a certain level... sooner or later it's gonna happen
you could lift for years without injuries and one day... bam there goes the elbow ;)
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747600383]I see a lot of comments like that on here, and I really don't understand where it's coming from, excellent form is the way/reason to lift MORE weight not less.
There's no reason to accommodate your age for a 39 year old, if there are health issues or prior injuries you address those but otherwise, IMHO it's not smart to limit yourself.[/QUOTE]
It's probably because years of heavy squats and jogging many miles took their toll on my back. Have a hair line fracture in my L5, that I hear is very common with very active people, due to wear and tear. Most people don't even know they have it. Also blew out my pic, when I got strong too fast, a few years ago. Just not interested in being a strong man, anymore. Everyone has different goals. Some want to be strong beasts, others don't. But strong doesn't always equal healthy, either.
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[QUOTE=MarioNTexas;748039573] Also blew out my pic,. .[/QUOTE]
When I first started creatine my bench went through the roof and my left pec tendon came off the bone.
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747641983]I think the only reason I'm an exception is because most people don't push themselves because they think they're too old.[/QUOTE]
Very good observation. Also cuz pushing oneself is f**kin hard work. So its easier to ease back and rationalize it on "leaving one's ego out of it" or some other cliche theory of the week. Its ok to do it if one is looking to just stay toned and fit but not to justify avoiding heavy azz weights.
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[QUOTE=bigtallox;747641983]I think the only reason I'm an exception is because most people don't push themselves because they think they're too old.[/QUOTE]
Guess that one of the reasons that I like my Saturday morning sessions with my coach....pushes the hell outta me, accepts no excuses and cuts me no slack. Checks my daily log, line by line, and lets me know if he doesn't think I'm pushing myself hard enough. Over the course of 10 wks it's definitely paid-off, strength-wise.
Wild1poet2, you nailed it in the above post...definitely would apply to me if I was flying completely solo.
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I'm able to do 5 to 7 pull ups with just bodyweight now with minor pain and inflamation. I only do a few just to see where I'm at in the healing. I went to my appointment with my orthopedic surgeon today and he thinks its a muscle tear in the lat near the tendon insertion. The good news is he does not think its a tendon tear and he noted that my lats are still symmetrical. And he said it's not unusual to take a couple months to heal.
He wants me to get some ultrasound on it and electro stim. He said to go light for a few more weeks and he expected I'd be able to start cranking it up again in three weeks. So I'm optimistic.
This is the doc who ground 10mm off my clavicle and opened up my AC joint to fix an impingement syndrome in my right shoulder. He removed the bursa and debrided my rotator cuff. He did it about 11 years ago. All arthroscopically and the shoulder is trouble free to this day.
I asked if I should be backing off and he said he saw no reason especially given my history and training(I asked him 11 years ago and he said the same thing). So maybe I'm not brittle after all.
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Good News !! Hope you get a 100% recovery
Regards
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I did fully recover from the lat tear and am good as new. I resumed the same protocol as pre tear. No problems. The body is amazing at healing. Everyone is different and you have to study how your body responds to stress. What is stressful for one person is a good workout for another. That is why we have such a wide variety of athletes. Linebackers to marathon runners. A man has got to know his limitations.
But there is no doubt aging diminishes capacity. I cannot run as fast as I did in my twenties or max as much. More importantly I cannot recover as quick. I don't have a problem with this and I accept it. But I like to stay at the edge of my capacity. If you're not living on the edge you're taking up too much space. Unfortunately sometimes I find the edge the hard way. I believe my lat tore not from the pull up session alone but because it too closely followed a deadlift session. And my lats were not really recovered. But like many injuries incurred over life it healed.
Most recently I had surgery to repair an umbilical hernia. I tore my abdominals at their weakspot. I do a 5x5 deadlift routine and use 3 plates+. I've done it forever. When I was yonger I used 4 plates+. I started around 15 with around 135. Why after all these years did I get this injury? The fascia that covers the inner side of the abdominal muscles tore. A little last October and then more in August this year. I believe as we age our connective tissue loses elasticity and becomes more vulnerable to tears. The doc said there was nothing I could have done to avoid this aside from ceasing to lift weights. They also said I'm good as new and won't need to limit the poundage.
As we age our strength can overpower the connective tissues. Ten years ago I was pulling a tree stump out of the ground. My legs overpowered my distal bicep tendon and the tendon partially ruptured. It happened not because my legs were stronger than when I was 25 but because my distal bicep tendon is less elastic.
Anyways, I plan to go as hard as I can as long as I can. Its hard to change habits. The truth is I just like it that way. I could deadlift a lighter weight and stay toned but I love that primal feel of pulling up something heavy and overcoming gravity. I'm well below my max so its not like veins are popping out of my head and my eyeballs are bulging. LOL
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I keep reading people suggesting to work around the injury. That's very dangerous. I wish it were that easy too.
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[QUOTE=Dutchman;745677233]I'll second the comments from HoustonTXM, I'm turning 70 in a month and still going strong. The secret to keeping the injuries down is spacing and rest. In my case I use an 8 day week with 4 splits and as much time as needed between sets. I'm still getting stronger and am sure I can continue to do so for years. There is no age limit imposed on us other than what we arbitrarily set up for ourselves. Train smart, train hard and train long! Good luck![/QUOTE]
Dutchman-you are an inspiration for all of us who are in the "you are too old to do that" age range.
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[QUOTE=talexander55;994522003]Dutchman-you are an inspiration for all of us who are in the "you are too old to do that" age range.[/QUOTE]
Well I too get inspired in turn by the older BB champs like Houston and the younger PL champs like Ox who set the standards here. I just keep up with my dedication to extreme supplementation and get results like yesterday. It is 6 months since I seriously tore my right RC. Now after months of megadosing my Super Cissus RX and my Omega 3s I am back in full swing, almost. Yesterday I managed for the first time in my life to hit 3 reps on my Rack Deadlift @ 510 lbs. I almost can't believe it but I keep getting stronger every year. I remember Bodyhard or one of the guys doing this (Rack Deadlift reps), years ago and I am set on copying their exploits sometime this year. It feels sooooo good to lift heavy and then hold the sucker and know people are thinking, but I thought he was too old for that, how does he do it?