PanAm replacement, how to stay w/i the rules

So...I'm sure you all have heard the rumors.

It looks like a good, possible heavy or super heavy male lifter or both have tested positive for something and may have been replaced on the PanAm roster.

[url]http://www.pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=6493[/url]

[url]http://goheavy.com/forums/olympic/index.cgi/read/656291[/url]

Of course, reasonable discussion is encouraged and allowed, though I would like glenn says on his forum keep speculation to a minimum until the official results come out.

In order to stay w/i the rules of the forum though I would ask you all to refrain from mentioning compounds, usage, dosage, how to beat a test, etc.

Think: generalities and legalities are ok to talk about, specifics are bad.

[QUOTE=isaku900;862848381]So...I'm sure you all have heard the rumors.

It looks like a good, possible heavy or super heavy male lifter or both have tested positive for something and may have been replaced on the PanAm roster.

[url]http://www.pendlayforum.com/showthread.php?t=6493[/url]

[url]http://goheavy.com/forums/olympic/index.cgi/read/656291[/url]

Of course, reasonable discussion is encouraged and allowed, though I would like glenn says on his forum keep speculation to a minimum until the official results come out.

In order to stay w/i the rules of the forum though I would ask you all to refrain from mentioning compounds, usage, dosage, how to beat a test, etc.

Think: generalities and legalities are ok to talk about, specifics are bad.[/QUOTE]

Reading the articles posted i would say that it is probably a shady ingredient in a pre/post-workout sup. One would have seen a much better performance out of said lifter if it had been otherwise.

And that, boys and girls, is why if one wants to go on to becoime a doctor later in life, quitting before Nationals is not as irrational as it may initially seem.

now if it really is Mendes (and it seems it is) and if it is really for something legit and now some preworkout ****, the haters are going to be out in full force

[QUOTE=WHT_LIGHTNING;862985221]now if it really is Mendes (and it seems it is) and if it is really for something legit and now some preworkout ****, the haters are going to be out in full force[/QUOTE]

I dunno man, haters I generally associate with making stuff up or taking something and running, this would be more confirmation of what I believe had become pretty much a generally accepted reality. Maybe it's the lawyer in me, but hating=speculating based on circumstantial evidence (usually limited circumstantial evidence at that), if there's a dirty test regardless of who it is or where he trains you're not hating by stating he pissed hot. That's a fact. I mean cmon we're not idiots here (hopefully), Bulgarian training was designed in conjunction with Bulgarian supplementing, so this can't really be a surprise to anybody. Are they the only ones doing it? Absolutely not. Does that matter if you broke the rules (and got caught)? Nope. And LMAO at "preworkout ****," if you pop dirty for an OTC supplement at Nationals you are an absolute moron.

imo, most people going to nationals are under great coaches and wouldn't even come close to messing up and popping just for a pre-workout supp

[QUOTE=fraverdenstreet;863013551]imo, most people going to nationals are under great coaches and wouldn't even come close to messing up and popping just for a pre-workout supp[/QUOTE]

Agweed

[QUOTE=dtaps24;862971781]And that, boys and girls, is why if one wants to go on to becoime a doctor later in life, quitting before Nationals is not as irrational as it may initially seem.[/QUOTE]

The lawyer in you makes me laugh on a weekly basis.

[QUOTE=fraverdenstreet;863013551]imo, most people going to nationals are under great coaches and wouldn't even come close to messing up and popping just for a pre-workout supp[/QUOTE]

you would think, but some international lifters have popped for it too.

Didn't Lapikov from Russia pop for that at worlds?

[QUOTE=dtaps24;862994491]I dunno man, haters I generally associate with making stuff up or taking something and running, this would be more confirmation of what I believe had become pretty much a generally accepted reality. Maybe it's the lawyer in me, but hating=speculating based on circumstantial evidence (usually limited circumstantial evidence at that), if there's a dirty test regardless of who it is or where he trains you're not hating by stating he pissed hot. That's a fact. I mean cmon we're not idiots here (hopefully), Bulgarian training was designed in conjunction with Bulgarian supplementing, so this can't really be a surprise to anybody. Are they the only ones doing it? Absolutely not. Does that matter if you broke the rules (and got caught)? Nope. And LMAO at "preworkout ****," if you pop dirty for an OTC supplement at Nationals you are an absolute moron.[/QUOTE]

Well the lawyer in me could argue, that if a parent has 3 kids, and one of them gets into drugs, it does not mean that the parents gave the kid drugs or even knew of the drug use....

If Enderton and Gilbert are clean, who is to say that Broz even knew what Pat was doing? Also, we don't even know what he popped for, it sounds dumb, but it could have even been something like weed.

The lawyer in you should know to wait until some more facts come in....

Once again, other high level lifters have popped for some pretty trivial things....

Also, once again, Broz is not the only person to take a "Bulgarian" approach to training, Cal Strength does it, and we do not associate drugs with them....

Broz just confirmed on the Jared Enderton video that it wasn't Pat...

edit: My opinion is it's true just because he seems to hate being called a liar.

[QUOTE=WHT_LIGHTNING;863055011]Well the lawyer in me could argue, that if a parent has 3 kids, and one of them gets into drugs, it does not mean that the parents gave the kid drugs or even knew of the drug use....

If Enderton and Gilbert are clean, who is to say that Broz even knew what Pat was doing? Also, we don't even know what he popped for, it sounds dumb, but it could have even been something like weed.

The lawyer in you should know to wait until some more facts come in....

Once again, other high level lifters have popped for some pretty trivial things....

Also, once again, Broz is not the only person to take a "Bulgarian" approach to training, Cal Strength does it, and we do not associate drugs with them....[/QUOTE]

What? I think you're reading an awful lot into what I said. For clarification, I said if somebody comes out and states that it's a fact that somebody is doing something with little or no supporting evidence that is speculating/hating. If there's a dirty test and somebody says "this guy pissed dirty" that's not hating, that's stating a fact. I also said that if you fail based on a preworkout you're an idiot. That's all. I didn't say that a dirty test means the coach knew about it. The Bulgarian training protocol was originated by a country where I think it is generally accepted that the lifters were supplementally enhanced. There's a decent amount of indicators that something is up with that particular gym, this would certainly be another one. Doesn't mean I am "hating" because frankly I don't care what they do and I hope/wish they don't get caught (if they're doing anything) because I like the lifters. I like Broz although I think the Adell thing was a bad moment for him. There are not as many indicators with Cal Strength, but if one of their guys got popped it would be the same analysis (to me anyways).

[QUOTE=PretentiousKunt;863060791]Broz just confirmed on the Jared Enderton video that it wasn't Pat...

edit: My opinion is it's true just because he seems to hate being called a liar.[/QUOTE]

yea someone on pendlay said that he asked Broz and the answer was "Pat did not test positive at Nationals".

The fact remains that a SHW was dismissed from the team and the first alternate was called up, whether due to a doping test, injury, what have you. PanAms is pretty soon though right? We'll find out for sure in a few weeks either way.

[QUOTE=isaku900;863078561]yea someone on pendlay said that he asked Broz and the answer was "Pat did not test positive at Nationals".

The fact remains that a SHW was dismissed from the team and the first alternate was called up, whether due to a doping test, injury, what have you. PanAms is pretty soon though right? We'll find out for sure in a few weeks either way.[/QUOTE]

was just going to post this

so it might have been Swart who tested positive...

The last I heard was that Pat Mendes did not test positive for anything, but withdrew from the Pan Am team due to injuries. Apparently he's planning on rehabbing and returning at 105.

[QUOTE=tfk44;863208061]The last I heard was that Pat Mendes did not test positive for anything, but withdrew from the Pan Am team due to injuries. Apparently he's planning on rehabbing and returning at 105.[/QUOTE]

really? that is big cut in weight, interesting

Apparently he's struggling to stay above 120kg and at 28% BF, so he and Broz feel he can cut fat, improve his diet, and stay healthier at 105 while keeping strength. Mendes is a pretty small SHW as it is, and Broz doesn't feel he can be the size to compete with someone like Salimi. Mendes is only around 5'10" from what I recall.

[QUOTE=tfk44;863208061]The last I heard was that Pat Mendes did not test positive for anything, but withdrew from the Pan Am team due to injuries. Apparently he's planning on rehabbing and returning at 105.[/QUOTE]

This makes so much sense!! I hope this move works out for Pat in the long run.

[QUOTE=tfk44;863226201]Apparently he's struggling to stay above 120kg and at 28% BF, so he and Broz feel he can cut fat, improve his diet, and stay healthier at 105 while keeping strength. Mendes is a pretty small SHW as it is, and Broz doesn't feel he can be the size to compete with someone like Salimi. Mendes is only around 5'10" from what I recall.[/QUOTE]

Shane Hamman was only 5'9" or 5'10" also and he maintained a BW of 350!! Just sayin'

[QUOTE=olyw8lifter;863304141]Shane Hamman was only 5'9" or 5'10" also and he maintained a BW of 350!! Just sayin'[/QUOTE]

He had a power lifting background also. That may have something to do with it.

[QUOTE=feces99;863306501]He had a power lifting background also. That may have something to do with it.[/QUOTE]

True, I was just pointing out that if Pat wanted to be a big SHW, then he could. He's not that short for a SHW!!

However, it may be better based on bone structure for him to drop to the 105 class, too.

[QUOTE=olyw8lifter;863308021]True, I was just pointing out that if Pat wanted to be a big SHW, then he could. He's not that short for a SHW!!

However, it may be better based on bone structure for him to drop to the 105 class, too.[/QUOTE]

Broz has written that he felt that he himself was not big enough bone structure-wise to be a true SHW, and that Mendes has smaller joints than he does. He doesn't seem to possess the frame of a lifter like Hamman or Cameron Swart.

i always thought mendes looked too small to be a SHW. i think he'll be great as a 105, especially when the drop in weight gives him more flexibility

[QUOTE=olyw8lifter;863304141]Shane Hamman was only 5'9" or 5'10" also and he maintained a BW of 350!! Just sayin'[/QUOTE]

Shane was a monster though. Dwarfed pretty much anyone. Mendes does look like a 105 if he were 'shredded' or at least not fat.
[img]http://liftup.chidlovski.net/liftup/images/i_athletes/b1448.jpg[/img]

lol damn i was hoping to swoop in as a 105 when shankle retires and now i gotta compete with mendes??

[QUOTE=chigiskov;863403191]lol damn i was hoping to swoop in as a 105 when shankle retires and now i gotta compete with mendes??[/QUOTE]

hahah, well maybe if you keep yourself injury-free you can outperform him someday :)

[QUOTE=tfk44;863362731]Broz has written that he felt that he himself was not big enough bone structure-wise to be a true SHW, and that Mendes has smaller joints than he does. He doesn't seem to possess the frame of a lifter like Hamman or Cameron Swart.[/QUOTE]

Gotcha, I've never really kept up with all the stuff Broz writes!!

[QUOTE=chigiskov;863403191]lol damn i was hoping to swoop in as a 105 when shankle retires and now i gotta compete with mendes??[/QUOTE]

that was my plan too

(albeit, only about a month old, haha)

Got my work cutout for me

[QUOTE=scarboro;863401451]Shane was a monster though. Dwarfed pretty much anyone. Mendes does look like a 105 if he were 'shredded' or at least not fat.
[img]http://liftup.chidlovski.net/liftup/images/i_athletes/b1448.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
I should grow a beard like that. Probably helps you get a good bar path.

here is a picture of shane you might like.