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I am wanting to do weighted chinups instead of weighted pullups but I'm afraid I wont be hitting the lats hard enough with chins because the bicep is used more with them. IS there really that much of a difference between chins and pullups (Palms facing you, palms facing away) because to be honest I hate doing weighted pullups (45 lbs added weight), I would much rather do the chinups on my back day.
Wide grip pull ups hit the lats much harder. They tend to be a little more difficult though, so suck it up and reduce the weight if you have to.
Yeah thaTS whaT I've been doing Wide grip Pullups. I guess I'll just continue to do the damn things and do chinups on my bicep/tricep day.
That's what I do - close grip chins on my bicep days with palms facing in. Works great for me.
if i were you i'd stick to various curls the bi/tri day
i personally love close grip chins on back day....get's a hugee stretch, and hits the lower lats hard as hell..personally ill alternate days..maybe not every back day but here and there.
one back day, start it off with 4 sets of wide grip pullups followed by 4 sets of v-grip lat pulldowns
then another one start with 4 sets close grip chins followed by wide neutral grip lat pulldowns
hit the lats completely from top to bottom along with the teres whichever route
anyways the wider the grip on pullups doesn't hit the lats harder, it just hits the teres harder..puts more emphasis on upper lats and teres basically and close grip is more lower lats
it all needs to be done in order to get the best possible v-taper
I've always preferred pullups but my arms develop much faster than everything else so I guess it partially depends on your goals... Even so, I would stick to wide grip pullups and keep the bicep workout for your bicep exercises.
Mix & Match - Do both, in alternating sets or alternating days.
Tri/Bi Day Routine:
EZ Bar curls (4s 8r)
Seated Tricep PRess (4s 8r)
HAmmer Curls (4s 8r)
Skull Crushers with EZ Bar (4s 8r)
Zottman Curls (4s 8r)
Close Grip Bench/Reverse grip bench press [Rotate weekly] (4s 8r)
Weighted Chinups (4s 8r)
I like the idea of rotating weighted chins and weighted pullups on back day I'll try that out..
Iv'e read scientifically theres not much of a difference between different forms of pullups, only that wide grip hits the lats a bit more, and chin ups hit the bi's a bit more. But the difference is supposedly very minuscule.
Now for broscience, I notice wide grip to hit the lats better. As for biceps they hit all kinds of pullups kill my biceps if i go to failure on my sets.
[QUOTE=SkullCrusher88;616608893] but I'm afraid I wont be hitting the lats hard enough with chins because the bicep is used more with them. IS there really that much of a difference between chins and pullups (Palms facing you, palms facing away) .[/QUOTE]
a better comparison for this matter would be neutral close-grip pullups (using triangle handle or similar [url]http://www.sutree.com/upload/thumbnails/37917.gif[/url] vs supinated close grip chin-ups.
wide grip vs close grip do hit the lat differently, so if u want to isolate the effect of biceps compare those 2 close grip versions.
in general, in a compound move engaging an ancillary muscle (like bi's) more doesnt reduce the effect on the main muscle (lat), it simply engages the ancillary more which means u must use a greater loading.
interestingly, most people are strongest in the shoulder width neutral grip pullups.
[QUOTE=gomez26;616657083]a better comparison for this matter would be neutral close-grip pullups (using triangle handle or similar [url]http://www.sutree.com/upload/thumbnails/37917.gif[/url] vs supinated close grip chin-ups.
wide grip vs close grip do hit the lat differently, so if u want to isolate the effect of biceps compare those 2 close grip versions.
in general, in a compound move engaging an ancillary muscle (like bi's) more doesnt reduce the effect on the main muscle (lat), it simply engages the ancillary more which means u must use a greater loading.
interestingly, most people are strongest in the shoulder width neutral grip pullups.[/QUOTE]
It's hard to tell with that picture but would that be the same as using a medium grip pullup?? I have a Iron Gym so that would be the two handles that stick straight out from the bar right?
Wide grip pull ups if ur goal is for lats.
Chin ups is ur goal for biceps.
Why do people keep saying that just because the biceps are used a bit more in the chinup that it somehow takes something away from the lats?
Here is some EMG study that was done (although it looks at the lat pulldown, its still a comparison of grips): [url]http://drsquat.com/content/emg-findings-different-exercises-lats-biceps[/url]
[quote]The wide grip lat pulldown demonstrated a small but non-significant increase in the activity of the latissimus dorsi compared with the supinated grip pulldown. This same small increase is seen in biceps muscle when using a supinated grip versus the wide grip during the lat pulldown. Due to the small changes in muscle activity there appears to be very little difference in muscle activity between the wide grip lat pulldown and the supinated grip lat pulldown for the biceps and latissimus dorsi muscles.[/quote]
Both exercises are good and important for lat development. Only thing i would add is that going to wide on pullup will stress your shoulder quite hard so when we/u go wide dont go to wide.
I don't think I'm strong enough yet to do wide grip, plus I can't since I have one of those narrow doorway chinup bars, so I'm wondering, at what point in the wider grip pulls is strain felt, bottom or top? It's hard to picture how it works and why.
I'm also curious, does anyone know what kind of vertical pulling variation (extension vs adduction I guess) might be better at targetting the glenohumeral (rear delts, teres major, maybe infraspinatus) and scapulathoracic (lower traps for depression, rhomboids and levator scapulae for downward rotation) joints? As opposed to targetting the lats which just go straight from arm to spine? I want to build lats but am also worried about that whole "too much internal rotation" thing.
Wide grip pullups work fantastic for me but just mix it up.
[QUOTE=Tyciol;617021813]
I'm also curious, does anyone know what kind of vertical pulling variation (extension vs adduction I guess) might be better at targetting the glenohumeral (rear delts, teres major, maybe infraspinatus) and scapulathoracic (lower traps for depression, rhomboids and levator scapulae for downward rotation) joints? As opposed to targetting the lats which just go straight from arm to spine? I want to build lats but am also worried about that whole "too much internal rotation" thing.[/QUOTE]
u inject brotox into the muscles u want to de-emphasize, its a new substance similar to botox (which paralyzes muscles for a number weeks - used for the face to reduce wrinkling), however brotox paralyzes muscles for only a few hours (it has a v.short half life) & is used for these kinds of matters. so u inject surrounding muscles which removes their involvement from the compound exercise leaving the target muscle uninhibited so it takes most of the load.
that way u can do any pulling moves u want, u dont have to worry about these funky variations where u look like ur taking a sh!t while focusing on mmc & all that rubbish
You could always give this a try..I do an underhand chin with a semi-wide grip. It is kind of the best of both worlds. Hits the lats like a chin but also stresses the biceps to some degree, not as much as a typical close grip chin up but hits them harder than an overhand grip. I guess techinally it is considered a chin up because the grip is underhand but due to the grip width it hits the lats more like a pull up.
As for grip variation & which hits the lats harder, I know Dorian Yates always said he preferred underhand pulldowns because he got a better contraction in his lats then overhand grip. He mentioned that the overhand wide grip tends to stress the smaller upper back muscles more than the lats? That is at least what he said but I have read that in different articles as well.
I think we should start a revolution of opposing this silly supinated=chin pronated=pull nonsense. Let's just call them both pull ups and specify the grip (along with neutral) to foster vocabulary. Chin-ups are hereby pullups where the chin touches the bar, much like a sternum-up is when you touch that. The one where you get chin over the bar can be called a neck-up.
[QUOTE=matjusm;616702293]Why do people keep saying that just because the biceps are used a bit more in the chinup that it somehow takes something away from the lats?
Here is some EMG study that was done (although it looks at the lat pulldown, its still a comparison of grips): [url]http://drsquat.com/content/emg-findings-different-exercises-lats-biceps[/url][/QUOTE]
I don't doubt this.
I don't do pull-ups at my gym because of the weird bar... that is just wrong for my shoulders. I pretty much do chins and hammer pull ups. They are working my lats hard. I've gotten wider and I know if works because these two exercises give me a huge pump after a couple of sets.
Chinups are for homos.
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/2rxv0o7.gif[/img]
dont fukk with platz
[QUOTE=OhsoClutch;617241563]Chinups are for homos.[/QUOTE]
Checked your stats.
Regrettably saw your hairstyle.
Who you calling homo?
I find both exercises smash my lats to pieces.
Do both.
[QUOTE=aleeboy;617267573]Checked your stats.
Regrettably saw your hairstyle.
Who you calling homo?[/QUOTE]
Hey I thought homo was about where we wanted to put our lower hair, not how we styled our upper hair.