Top Ten Quarterbacks Of All Time

[egoatdoor]

This was an interesting topic posted on another board. I'll like the opinions of the "older" crowd as many of us don't think the NFL did not exist before
1990. :D

Here is my list:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Fran Tarkenton 8. Joe Namath 9. Sammy Baugh 10. (tie) Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts and Y. A Tittle.

Close but not quite: Jim Kelly, George Blanda

Knocking on the door and could be there in 3 years: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady


If you want to pick only top 5, go right ahead.

[Hibiscus09]

1) Terry Bradshaw :D GOOOO STEELERS!

Dan Marino, Joe Montana, Joe Namath (Brian golfed with him and said he's a super-nice guy), Roger Staubach, etc. (People you listed. :) )

Oooh, and extra votes for Steve Young's good looks. ;)

[powerman2000]

1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Roger Staubach
4. Fran Tarkenton
5. Steve Young
6. Bart Starr
7. Bob Griese
8. Ken Stabler
9. Dan Marino
10. John Elway

[One Man Army]

Best of all time...NO ORDER

Joe Theisman
Kordell Stewart
Jeff Garcia
Jim McMahon
Koy Detmer
Steve Beuerlein
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks
Heath Shuler

[Odin1970]

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Johnny unitas
4. Fran Tarkenintan
5. John Elway
6. Roger Stabach
7. Brett Favre
8. Terry Bradshaw
9. Warren Moon
10. Dan Fouts

Honarable mention: Doug Flutie

[pastorgbc]

1. Joe Montana
2. Roger Staubach
3. John Elway
4. Johnny Unitas
5. Brett Favre
6. Dan Marino
7. Terry Bradshaw
8. Kenny Stabler
8. Tom Brady
9. Steve Young
10. Fran Tarkenton

Ray

[bamatank]

Joe Namath

[jmannb9]

1. Dan Marino
2. Roger Staubach
3. John Elway
4. Terry Bradshaw
5. Peyton Manning
6. Terry Bradshaw
7. Troy Aikman
8. Brett Favre
9. Joe Montana
10. Dan Fouts

[namtrag]

Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Sammy Baugh
Brett Favre
YA Tittle
Fran Tarkenton
John Elway
Steve Young
Terry Bradshaw
John Brodie
Dan Fouts

Nobody is listing the old timers. I can't remember most of them, other than the 2 above, but there were some other really good ones back in the day.

[ElMariachi]

Best of all time...NO ORDER

Joe Theisman
Kordell Stewart
Jeff Garcia
Jim McMahon
Koy Detmer
Steve Beuerlein
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks
Heath Shuler

LMAO at Beurlein :)

[ElMariachi]

1. Johnny Unitas
2. Roger Staubach
3. Joe Montana
4. John Elway
5. Brett Favre
6. Dan Marino
7. Steve Young
8. Sammy Baugh
9. Terry Bradshaw
10. Bart Starr

[namtrag]

How could I leave off Johnny U or Bart Starr???? I will replace anybody on my list with them.

Some old guys I remember reading about, don't know how good they were, maybe some older guys can tell us:

Norm Van Brocklin, Sid Luckman, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne

[Sasquatch]

Best of all time...NO ORDER

Joe Theisman
Kordell Stewart
Jeff Garcia
Jim McMahon
Koy Detmer
Steve Beuerlein
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks
Heath Shuler

Ryan Leaf
Billy Joe Hobert
Mike Vick / Ron Mexico
Akili Smith

[Fishhawk]

Best of all time...NO ORDER

Joe Theisman
Kordell Stewart
Jeff Garcia
Jim McMahon
Koy Detmer
Steve Beuerlein
Trent Dilfer
Kerry Collins
Aaron Brooks
Heath Shuler

LOL ... this must be a typo .....Kordell Stewart?

[ElMariachi]

Ryan Leaf
Billy Joe Hobert
Mike Vick / Ron Mexico
Akili Smith



Gino Torretta. Jim Druckenmiller.

[Fishhawk]

Ryan Leaf
Billy Joe Hobert
Mike Vick / Ron Mexico
Akili Smith

You forgot Cade McNown.

[bigbridrol]

Best of all time...NO ORDER


Trent Dilfer



worst talent to ever have a ring. and lol at ur list

edit* oops didnt see this was over 35, clicked on it from main page, no wonder i didnt see many peyton votes

[fna]

1. Steve Young
2. Roger Staubach
3. John Elway
4. Joe Montana
5. Dan Marino
6. Johnny Unitas
7. Peyton Manning
8. Fran Tarkenton
9. Roger Staubach
10. Brett Favre, Bradshaw, Aikman

I think Brees and Brady will be in this in a few years. But there have been some really great quarterbacks.

[bamatank]

Why doesn't anyone acknowledge Broadway Joe as a great?

[RBEliminator]

Marino
Elway
Favre
Starr
Egoatdoor
Unitas
Namath
Theisman
manning

[Barry Bonds]

I didn't used to watch NFL in my younger days. But any Sunday I was flipping channels and came upon a Broncos game with 2-3 minutes left, you had to watch because no lead was safe.

With that being said, although I hate the Colts, Peyton Manning has a good shot of being the best if he stays healthy, and gets a running game or trade somewhere they have a running game.

[agsuper]

Joe Montana
Johnny Unitas
Dan Marino
Terry Bradshaw
Jim Plunkett
Ken Stabler
Steve Young
John Elway
Bart Starr
Joe Nameth

[vol]

Assuming we're talking NFL:

Starr
Unitas
Marino
Tarkenton
Peyton Manning
Montana
Elway
Namath
Favre
Fouts

[Biggerfoot]

Ken Anderson needs to be in there too.

[str8flexed]

Marino
Elway
Favre
Starr
Egoatdoor
Unitas
Namath
Theisman
manning

finally, someone with half a brain mentions manning.

[namtrag]

Yeah, Manning ought to be there. But it's funny how we all see the greats through our own generational lenses. The 65 year olds would say Bart Starr and Johnny U were the best. My age group says Marino and Montana, and my kids age group says Brady and Manning.

It's definitely interesting. Right now, I think Manning is kind of like Marino, considered great by many, but many would say, they haven't won a Super Bowl, so how great can they really be?

I happen to think Marino is the best, but that's because I am a Miami fan.

[ElMariachi]

finally, someone with half a brain mentions manning.



For what????? He may end up in the Top 10 at the end of his career, but I wouldn't put him there now. He reminds me of a Marino, an All-Pro every season, but not a guy who will win a title. How many times has he choked in the playoffs now? This is just like in college, where he couldn't get UT to win the national title, but the year after, the team led by Tee Martin pulled it off.


Guys like Montana, Aikman, Favre, Young, Namath and so on, those were prime time playoff performers, they stepped their games up in the playoffs, so far Manning has had some good games, and some downright awful games when his team needed him most. I wouldn't take Manning over Tom Brady at this point. Brady has been a primetime playoff performer, which is a big deal when talking about the greats of all time.

There have been plenty of quarterbacks with outstanding regular season numbers, but then suddenly vanishing in the playoffs. Until Manning shows he can lead his team to a victory in a bigtime game, he's never going to compare with any of these other guys.


If this was only a ranking for best regular season quarterbacks, hell yeah, I'd put Manning in the top 5.

[namtrag]

I don't think you could say Marino choked in the playoffs. I don't recall that-I recall his team never having a single good running back his entire career. I think they had one guy rush for 1,000 yards one season (Sammy Smith maybe?). Actually I just looked, and they had zero backs rush for 1000 yards during his career

When you get to the playoffs and have no running back, it's kind of hard to win, no matter who your quarterback is.

[str8flexed]

For what????? He may end up in the Top 10 at the end of his career, but I wouldn't put him there now. He reminds me of a Marino, an All-Pro every season, but not a guy who will win a title. How many times has he choked in the playoffs now? This is just like in college, where he couldn't get UT to win the national title, but the year after, the team led by Tee Martin pulled it off.


Guys like Montana, Aikman, Favre, Young, Namath and so on, those were prime time playoff performers, they stepped their games up in the playoffs, so far Manning has had some good games, and some downright awful games when his team needed him most. I wouldn't take Manning over Tom Brady at this point. Brady has been a primetime playoff performer, which is a big deal when talking about the greats of all time.

There have been plenty of quarterbacks with outstanding regular season numbers, but then suddenly vanishing in the playoffs. Until Manning shows he can lead his team to a victory in a bigtime game, he's never going to compare with any of these other guys.


If this was only a ranking for best regular season quarterbacks, hell yeah, I'd put Manning in the top 5.

people said the same thing about elway.

[ElMariachi]

I don't think you could say Marino choked in the playoffs. I don't recall that-I recall his team never having a single good running back his entire career. I think they had one guy rush for 1,000 yards one season (Sammy Smith maybe?).

When you get to the playoffs and have no running back, it's kind of hard to win, no matter who your quarterback is.



I never called Marino a choker, but Manning has had James and Marvin Harrison. He literally had moments that he did choke. Marino was just always faced with better teams, but Manning has had moments where he has just choked up in the face of pressure.


Nobody will ever criticize Manning either, looked what happened to their kicker when he did that. Its the fastest ticket out of town, but the guy has been in some games where he had no excuse for losing.

Fair or not, until he wins a title, he will never truly belong with that top echelon of quarterback's, either that or he keeps this up for another decade or so, but ultimately, it took winning 2 titles for Elway to be really pushed up the ladder, he was always a great quarterback, but a choker, until he finally got the Lombardi, now he's a shoo-in for any top 10 list.


Fair or not, until he wins a title, Manning will be held on a perch below Tom Brady.

[ElMariachi]

people said the same thing about elway.



Yea and that would still have been the case had he not won those titles late in his career. He never got the respect of an Aikman, a Montana, any of those guys, because people always expected him to get spooked when it mattered the most. For Manning to be on this list, he's going to need to win a title at least.

Elway was always a much better quarterback than Aikman, but he never got the respect until he finally won it all.

[egoatdoor]

Nobody is listing the old timers. I can't remember most of them, other than the 2 above, but there were some other really good ones back in the day.

Others I can think of: Sid Luckman, Bobby Layne, Norm Van Brocklin and Otto Graham.

[egoatdoor]

How could I leave off Johnny U or Bart Starr???? I will replace anybody on my list with them.

Some old guys I remember reading about, don't know how good they were, maybe some older guys can tell us:

Norm Van Brocklin, Sid Luckman, Otto Graham, Bobby Layne


OOOPPPSS! I hadn't gotten to this before I wrote my last post. :D

[egoatdoor]

I don't think Manning and Brady have played long enough yet to qualify for all time top ten. And Manning won't get there until he at least gets to a Super Bowl. Marino never won it a Super Bowl, but he at least got there and was spectacular in the playoffs, where Manning has also been lacking.

[johnnyironboard]

1. Roger Staubach
2. Terry Bradshaw
3. Joe Montana
4. Steve Young
5. John Elway

[boyscouT]

Manning for sure, as soon as he wins a Super Bowl.

[jtroster]

Russ Jackson

[vol]

For what????? He may end up in the Top 10 at the end of his career, but I wouldn't put him there now. He reminds me of a Marino, an All-Pro every season, but not a guy who will win a title. How many times has he choked in the playoffs now? This is just like in college, where he couldn't get UT to win the national title, but the year after, the team led by Tee Martin pulled it off.

Teams win championships, not individual players. You think Tee Martin was better than Peyton? The 98 championship had more to do with Jamal Lewis, Al Wilson, Travis Henry and Peerless Price than the QB.

In the NFL, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Mark Rypien, and Trent Dilfer have won super bowls. Does anyone think they're great QBs or are the reason their team won the championship?

[johnnyironboard]

Teams win championships

True but the only reason Dallas played Pittsburgh in SB 10 and 13 was because of Roger Staubach. He was the greatest player of all time going against the greatest team of alltime(how many of those guys are not in the HOF?) and the team won- barely.

[Tonyrome]

I loved Joe Willie Namath he was my man when I was younger, but Sonny JURGENSEN played on mostly bad Washington teams and still shined made 5 probowls and with out a doubt one of the best pure passers ever in the NFL.

[Mr. Someday]

I'm sure Brady sees lists like these all the time with Manning on them and not him.....then wipes the tears from his eyes with his three Super Bowl rings.

I guess I was too young to really appreciate Staubach, so any list I would make would have Joe Montana as the best ever. The guys that perform in the clutch should always be respected more than the numbers guys IMO.

[Dave76]

Tony Romo

Well, Ok, maybe not. I'm a big Cowboy fan.

[johnnyironboard]

I guess I was too young to really appreciate Staubach.


I still cry when I watch the last few minutes of the highlights of the 13 superbowl. When Roger stepped off the field early in the 4th quarter after Jackie Smith dropped an easy TD pass Dalllas was ahead- then he didnt step back on until they were behind by a lot (Randy White should have fallen on the ball)- but Roger kept coming. That was the thing about him from the Navy never give up the ship. Two superbowl rings and 9 pts from two more.

[egoatdoor]

What alot of people don't remember about Staubach was he was THE 2 minute quarterback. Better than Elway, better than Favre, even Montana, in taking a team down the field to win in the last two minutes.

[falconshall21]

I cannot believe how Joe Namath is thought to ever have been a good quarterback, much less in the top ten of all time. The fact is, Joe Namath SUCKED! Check out the stats:

Completion Percentage 50.1% Terrible
Touchdowns/Interceptions 173/220 Horrible

How was he ever considered to be a great quarterback?
All he did was have one good season in which he defeated the heavily favored Baltimore Colts.

[egoatdoor]

I cannot believe how Joe Namath is thought to ever have been a good quarterback, much less in the top ten of all time. The fact is, Joe Namath SUCKED! Check out the stats:

Completion Percentage 50.1% Terrible
Touchdowns/Interceptions 173/220 Horrible

How was he ever considered to be a great quarterback?
All he did was have one good season in which he defeated the heavily favored Baltimore Colts.

I think you have to take into account that the 50s and 60s were a different era. The playing conditions were much worse than today with the playing fields, all were grass, plus there were no domes. The passing games were not as sophisicated and there was not the film study and computer tools there were today. Plus all quarterbacks called their own plays. Finally, the rules were much more favorable for the defense. There were not the can't bump the receivers and "can't touch the quarterback" rules there are today.

Look at the TD/Interception stats of these other greats: Baugh (1940s) 187/203, Tittle (50s and 60s) 212/221 Blanda (40s to the 70s) 236/277. Even Fouts, Bradshaw, Griese and Unitas were close to 1 to 1 Interceptions to touchdowns.

For 4 or 5 seasons, Namath was unstoppable, even playing for average Jets teams before they really got good in 1967 and 1968. The fault I can see in Namath was that he stayed too long after his knee injuries made him a sitting duck.

[Tonyrome]

I bet that 15 yr old thought the Beatles sux too right? Joe Namath was the biggest star the NFL ever seen! then and now.

[Barry Bonds]

NFL apparently does not keep stats of winningest 2 min drill qb, but the winningest QB going into the 4th quarter losing is ELWAY (47). Most games won by a QB ELWAY (148).

Staubach is not in the top 5.

Thank you SI.com

[egoatdoor]

NFL apparently does not keep stats of winningest 2 min drill qb, but the winningest QB going into the 4th quarter losing is ELWAY (47). Most games won by a QB ELWAY (148).

Staubach is not in the top 5.

Thank you SI.com

I've seen that stat and Favre is also very high on the list ( they played that up alot last Monday night), but I think it is misleading.

I am not disparaging Elway, but if a quarterback is down 3 points entering the 4th quarter and throws a touchdown pass on the first play of the quarter, its considered "Coming from behind in the 4th quarter".

I do remember Staubach making numerous comebacks in the 2 minute offense and he almost never threw a pick in the 2 minute drill. It killed me at the time because I HATED the Cowboys!

Elway was great too. I think we all remember "THE DRIVE' to beat Cleveland.

[BDI6942]

Brett Favre in the top 10?Im sorry but putting a QB who has thrown for a ton of yards doesnt mean he should be mentioned as an all time great. Brett Favre is an INT machine.

Im also surprised people who list Joe Montana in their list, dont also put Tom Brady in the list as well. Joe Montana himself even readily admits that Tom Brady is better than he ever was. Tom Brady should already be mentioned in the top 5. No QB has proven to be more clutch in postseason than him. And his career isnt even half over yet. Thats the scary thing.

[johnnyironboard]

NFL apparently does not keep stats of winningest 2 min drill qb, but the winningest QB going into the 4th quarter losing is ELWAY (47). Most games won by a QB ELWAY (148).

Staubach is not in the top 5.

Thank you SI.com

Losing 4 years when Roger served in the Navy probably kept him from being on that list. It probably cost him a second Heismann and a couple of Superbowl rings as well- for sure the 5th Superbowl.

If Roger had not gone to Navy and been drafted by Dallas he probably would have won two Heismann's and four(or more) Superbowls.

[Dave76]

NFL apparently does not keep stats of winningest 2 min drill qb, but the winningest QB going into the 4th quarter losing is ELWAY (47). Most games won by a QB ELWAY (148).

Staubach is not in the top 5.



Yes, but of course, you have to actually be behind in the 4th quarter to make this list. The better quarterbacks aren't going to find themselves behind all that often.

[kethnaab]

I'm sure Brady sees lists like these all the time with Manning on them and not him.....then wipes the tears from his eyes with his three Super Bowl rings.

hehehe.....I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If I am a coach going into the playoffs, there is only 1 QB in the game I'd rather have than Tom Brady, and that's Joe Montana.


What alot of people don't remember about Staubach was he was THE 2 minute quarterback. Better than Elway, better than Favre, even Montana, in taking a team down the field to win in the last two minutes.

well now, let's keep things in perspective here. Staubach was awesome, but to make a claim like that is...well...stretching things a bit.


Brett Favre in the top 10?Im sorry but putting a QB who has thrown for a ton of yards doesnt mean he should be mentioned as an all time great. Brett Favre is an INT machine.

and a touchdown machine. 8 seasons with > 30 TDs...not half bad, eh?

yards/TDs/Int

3882/33/14
4413/38/13 (one of the best seasons ever by an NFL QB)
3899/39/13 (Another one of the best seasons ever)
3867/35/16
4212/31/23
3921/32/15
3361/32/21
4088/30/17

dude's a gutsy gunslinger. People place too much emphasis on his play the last few years when his team has SUCKED HORRIBLY.

Besides, how many QBs have the track record for consistency like him? 10 out of 15 seasons @ 3800 yards or more, 8x > 30 TDs...he's never gone more than 2 seasons without having 3800+ and/or 30 TDs.

But yeah, he tries to do too much himself.


Im also surprised people who list Joe Montana in their list, dont also put Tom Brady in the list as well. Joe Montana himself even readily admits that Tom Brady is better than he ever was. Tom Brady should already be mentioned in the top 5. No QB has proven to be more clutch in postseason than him. And his career isnt even half over yet. Thats the scary thing.

I think people hesitate to put him up there just because his career is only halfway through. They want to see how he pans out? I dunno.

Here's my list

1) Joe Montana - this shouldn't be a surprise
2) Dan Marino - IF he had a running back...if he had a defense...
3) John Elway - glad the Comeback kid won his last 2
4) Roger Staubach - never say die, no lead is safe
5) Tom Brady - Tom Cool may end up #1 someday
6) Brett Favre - see comments above
7) Terry Bradshaw - 4 SBs, 2 MVPs, the undisputed leader of the greatest team ever to step foot onto the field
8) Steve Young - If he hadn't played in Joe Cool's shadow, he may have been #1, because the 49'ers would've won just as readily with Young - plus, great scrambler
9) Dan Fouts - wheeeeeee!!!!!!!!! Goooooooo Air Coryell!!!!!
10) Joe Namath - A passing QB at a time when passing QB's weren't cool

As for Manning, compare his regular season stats vs. his playoff stats, and you'll see why he isn't on this list. This year, he has a chance to shut the naysayers up. I don't think he'll do it.

[egoatdoor]

Bumping this old thread in tribute to Sammy Baugh, who passed away last week.

[plmb1]

worst talent to ever have a ring. and lol at ur list

edit* oops didnt see this was over 35, clicked on it from main page, no wonder i didnt see many peyton votes

Lets not for Ernest T. Bass as one of the greats if we are going to put peyton in there this early in his carrier...(given his track record in moments of truth)......

[boathead]

I cannot believe how Joe Namath is thought to ever have been a good quarterback, much less in the top ten of all time. The fact is, Joe Namath SUCKED! Check out the stats:

Completion Percentage 50.1% Terrible
Touchdowns/Interceptions 173/220 Horrible

How was he ever considered to be a great quarterback?
All he did was have one good season in which he defeated the heavily favored Baltimore Colts.

yeah...all he did was CREATE the NFL as we know it. without that win, we'd probably still have the afl and nfl.

no love for warren moon?

[BuckSpin]

Now we are talking....

...and unless your list has Otto Graham & Sammy Baugh on it.....

I'll do my list when I get home.

[free816]

should only do these kind of lists with players you have seen play.
so for me
1. elway (cant imagine anyother qb thats close, how many terrible bronco teams he put on his back and took them to the super bowl) also keep in mind you can only point to shannon sharpe as a sure fire hall of famer he ever played with.
2. joe cool he played with a lot of great players in a system perfect for him.
not sure how good he would have been say in tampa lol
3. s. young super athelete, also played with a lot of great players.
4. peyton, he's played long enough to be on this lists
5. brady till 07 was just a very good qb on a great team. now he is just one notch below peyton, (its so small can barely see it)
6. dan the man, the best down the field passer (including elway) i have ever seen, quick release, had terrible defenses
7. kelly as a cane fan hard for me to put him this low, should have won that first super bowl. played with some great players as well. wasnt that durable so that knocks him down a peg or two.
8. moon who threw a prettier ball? played with a bunch of knuckle heads in houston. those early 90 oilers had as much talent as the pokes, the knuckle heads in dallas usually could leave it in the white house, those oilers imploded on the field
9. randall the greatest athelete to ever play qb (including ron mexico) he to suffered from playing with idiots in philly, buddy ryan didnt help them, in that dept. how did that 91 philly team not win lombardi's trophy?
10. dan fouts tie with aikman, fouts played street football slinging it around, had a bad defense, couldnt beat my raiders (lol),, aikman had so much talent never got featured, run emmitt right run emmitt left, 25 times a game then a shot or two to harper, and a dozen comebackers to the play maka. (no one threw the comebacker better than troy)
11. cant leave this man off my list probably wont make many top lists, but just on talent alone jeff george had more ability than any man ever, but a 2cent brain

[free816]

also my top 5 today
1. manning
2. brady
3. big ben
4. mcnabb
5. palmer
dont see favre anywhere,, the man got away with throwing more dumb picks than any qb to ever play. alot of those picks kept pretty good packer teams from winning more in the play offs.

[boathead]

i'll give it a shot

1. bradshaw
2. montana
3. aikman
4. brady
5. manning
6. staubach
7. sims
8. favre
9. starr
10. kelly

i've placed a premium on rings. sims gets included because, well, the giants rule. kelly gets included for the 4 straight super bowls, and it was his misfortune to run into dominant nfc teams, 49ers, giants, redskins.

honorable mention
moon
marino
elway...he does not make my list. he did not win 2 super bowls. tyrell davis did. the broncos were EASY wins for the NFC until davis stepped it up.
fouts
warner

[erod13]

For what????? He may end up in the Top 10 at the end of his career, but I wouldn't put him there now. He reminds me of a Marino, an All-Pro every season, but not a guy who will win a title. How many times has he choked in the playoffs now? This is just like in college, where he couldn't get UT to win the national title, but the year after, the team led by Tee Martin pulled it off.


Guys like Montana, Aikman, Favre, Young, Namath and so on, those were prime time playoff performers, they stepped their games up in the playoffs, so far Manning has had some good games, and some downright awful games when his team needed him most. I wouldn't take Manning over Tom Brady at this point. Brady has been a primetime playoff performer, which is a big deal when talking about the greats of all time.

There have been plenty of quarterbacks with outstanding regular season numbers, but then suddenly vanishing in the playoffs. Until Manning shows he can lead his team to a victory in a bigtime game, he's never going to compare with any of these other guys.


If this was only a ranking for best regular season quarterbacks, hell yeah, I'd put Manning in the top 5.

Manning won the ring in 2007 over the Bears

[erod13]

I never called Marino a choker, but Manning has had James and Marvin Harrison. He literally had moments that he did choke. Marino was just always faced with better teams, but Manning has had moments where he has just choked up in the face of pressure.


Nobody will ever criticize Manning either, looked what happened to their kicker when he did that. Its the fastest ticket out of town, but the guy has been in some games where he had no excuse for losing.

Fair or not, until he wins a title, he will never truly belong with that top echelon of quarterback's, either that or he keeps this up for another decade or so, but ultimately, it took winning 2 titles for Elway to be really pushed up the ladder, he was always a great quarterback, but a choker, until he finally got the Lombardi, now he's a shoo-in for any top 10 list.


Fair or not, until he wins a title, Manning will be held on a perch below Tom Brady.

Manning won it in 2007

[BuckSpin]

You know, there WAS football before the mid 1970s......

[boathead]

You know, there WAS football before the mid 1970s......

ok, ok. then unitas, otto graham, sammy baugh, namath, y.a. tittle (because the giants rule). maybe stabler. maybe jurgenson.

[Do_Somethin]

1. Doug Flutie
2. Damon Allen
3. Ron Lancaster
'Nuff said.

[BuckSpin]

ok, ok. then unitas, otto graham, sammy baugh, namath, y.a. tittle (because the giants rule). maybe stabler. maybe jurgenson.

Definitely Graham (played 10 seaons and in EVERY season either played in or won the league championship), Baugh (who "invented" the modern quarterback position & made the forward pass a weapon to be used proactively) and Unitas on anyone's Top 10.

Everyone forgets these guys played "without skirts" on like today's QBs on fields with wider hash marks and some with footballs still resembling melons more then the aerodynamic ovoids today.

[boathead]

i had the pleasure of meeting captain graham at the us coast guard academy. he was the a.d. at the time.

a gentleman. this despite his previous association with the hated redskins. :)

[egoatdoor]

Here is my list:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Fran Tarkenton 8. Joe Namath 9. Sammy Baugh 10. (tie) Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts and Y. A Tittle.

Close but not quite: Jim Kelly, George Blanda

Knocking on the door and could be there in 3 years: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady


Two years later, my updated list:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Tom Brady 8. Fran Tarkenton 9. Joe Namath 10. (tie) Sammy Baugh, Terry Bradshaw and Y. A Tittle.

Brady's three Super Bowl rings and a 16-0 regular season puts him on my list now. Peyton has to win another Super Bowl to merit consideration.

And for those who bashed me two years ago for not considering Brett Favre, his late season meltdown this year proved me right again.

[omnisjdi]

You have the ball on the 10 or 15 less than two minutes to go and need a touch down to win the game. Who do you want as your Quater Back?
Give me Joe Montana or Steve Young and I'll win the game better tha 75% of the time in those conditions:)

[antonbrn]

1.Terry Bradshaw (the best QB no question) 2. Payton Manning 3. Joe Montana 4. Roger Staubach 5. John Elway
There are some that I'll think of later of course.

[Keltron]

I can't believe none of you have listed Steve Bono or Jim Druckenmiller... you people are out of your minds. :D

[GeorgiaRebel]

Dan Marino, Steve Young. Joe Montana, Joe Namath, Terry Bradshaw

[snoack]

1.Terry Bradshaw (the best QB no question) 2. Payton Manning 3. Joe Montana 4. Roger Staubach 5. John Elway
There are some that I'll think of later of course.

You put Peyton Manning on this list and leave out a guy who holds the single season record for TD passes, single season record for TD/INT ratio...AND has won 3 SBs...

[BuckSpin]

*...still reminding everyone that there WAS pro football before the 1970s...*

[omnisjdi]

*...still reminding everyone that there WAS pro football before the 1970s...*

They didn't really throw passes back then, so we ignor them;)
What a bout Jim Bordie?

[_VL]

O.K., I am going to bring a statistical factor in here in looking at who OBJECTIVELY was perhaps the top performing QB of all time... Steve Young.

There was a cool book out a while back and I couldn't find any net links for it but this old article mentions it. Seriously, give the article a read if you can. It's short and gives some good points as to how they determined the top 3:

1) Steve Young
2) Otto Graham
3) Joe Montana

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E3D91230F932A25752C0A96E9582 60

The writer does make some good points as to why he thinks Steve Young never got the recognition he deserved. As to the regular "John Q. Public" list of other greats that seem to always make it into everyone's conversations on this topic, obviously ...

Bart Starr, Sammy Baugh, Tom Brady, Johnny Unitas, Roger Staubach, Peyton Manning

:p Ooops! I am just a chick, so I guess you might only listen to my thoughts if I were to say something like "My boyfriend told me..." or "Steve Young is soooo hot... wait a minute, on second thought, he really is hot!! :p

[BuckSpin]

O.K., I am going to bring a statistical factor in here in looking at who OBJECTIVELY was perhaps the top performing QB of all time... Steve Young.

There was a cool book out a while back and I couldn't find any net links for it but this old article mentions it. Seriously, give the article a read if you can. It's short and gives some good points as to how they determined the top 3:

1) Steve Young
2) Otto Graham
3) Joe Montana

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E3D91230F932A25752C0A96E9582 60

The writer does make some good points as to why he thinks Steve Young never got the recognition he deserved. As to the regular "John Q. Public" list of other greats that seem to always make it into everyone's conversations on this topic, obviously ...

Bart Starr, Sammy Baugh, Tom Brady, Johnny Unitas, Roger Staubach, Peyton Manning

:p Ooops! I am just a chick, so I guess you might only listen to my thoughts if I were to say something like "My boyfriend told me..." or "Steve Young is soooo hot... wait a minute, on second thought, he really is hot!! :p

*swoons*

All that :) AND she knows her football....

*thunk*

[ASWEDE]

Of the QB's I've seen it's between Elway, Marino and Montana.

[Deborah_Lyn]

1) Terry Bradshaw :D GOOOO STEELERS!



He'll always be #1 in my book! :)

[SP1966]

1. Tarvaris Jackson
2 - 10 Does not compute

[_VL]

Of the QB's I've seen it's between Elway, Marino and Montana.

O.K., I put the list of the obvious conversational QBs in my answer, earlier, BUT, yes, if you're only talking about the QBs that I've actually seen play in person myself (love you Dad :) ), I'd have to say Montana.

HOWEVER, the case is still open for some of the current young puppies already discussed in here who are still in contention out there.

- AND the frustrating thing overall is that in discussing the "success" of any QB you have to remember that it all depends on who the poor guys are surrounded by. For instance, just as ONE example, someone mentioned McNabb. Just think what he could have done, and do, if you made some changes to who he's surrounded by (I certainly mean NO offense to the birds in saying this) !!!!! Yikes, I may regret bringing this up in a public thread...

BTW Buckspin, don't get too excited as my only knowledge of football is limited to being a fan, having grown up in an athletic household, and having read a couple of cool books... so it's VERY limited. But, when you think about it, if folks really have respect for the human body and what it can achieve (bbing, lifting, etc.) , how can they NOT be fascinated by ALL sports?!!

[lookingtogrow]

This was an interesting topic posted on another board. I'll like the opinions of the "older" crowd as many of us don't think the NFL did not exist before
1990. :D

Here is my list:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Fran Tarkenton 8. Joe Namath 9. Sammy Baugh 10. (tie) Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts and Y. A Tittle.

Close but not quite: Jim Kelly, George Blanda

Knocking on the door and could be there in 3 years: Peyton Manning and Tom Brady


If you want to pick only top 5, go right ahead.



Dan Marino was a great QB, but can't be the best of all time without having won a SuperBowl...Montana is #1

[ASWEDE]

Dan Marino was a great QB, but can't be the best of all time without having won a SuperBowl...Montana is #1

Disagree. That depends more on supporting cast. By that logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.

[_VL]

Disagree. That depends more on supporting cast. By that logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.

O.K., I agree that the logic he used (re: looking at it from a championship or W-L angle is not the best logic) is flawed, BUT if you do look at Montana's passing stats, I think you'd have to agree that Montana beats Marino. (edit: I am only leaving out S.Young, my #1, IF we're only talking about folks I've seen play in person)

[SP1966]

Disagree. That depends more on supporting cast. By that logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.


O.K., I agree that the logic he used (re: looking at it from a championship or W-L angle is not the best logic) is flawed, BUT if you do look at Marino's passing stats, I think you'd have to agree that Montana is still #1 of more current folks.

I think luck has allot to do with these guys success. I would bet allot of quality guys ended up in poor systems, with poor coaches, or with lack of talent surrounding them. Take any of the greats and put them on a team like the Vikings/Lions etc and they would struggle to be average QB's. Montana/Young both were lucky to play for one of the great coaches in Walsh, Marino had a great OLine and WR's! Favre had both for most of his career. Had Young remained with the Bucs would we be talking about him in this thread? Timing and luck play a huge part in it!!

[free816]

I think luck has allot to do with these guys success. I would bet allot of quality guys ended up in poor systems, with poor coaches, or with lack of talent surrounding them. Take any of the greats and put them on a team like the Vikings/Lions etc and they would struggle to be average QB's. Montana/Young both were lucky to play for one of the great coaches in Walsh, Marino had a great OLine and WR's! Favre had both for most of his career. Had Young remained with the Bucs would we be talking about him in this thread? Timing and luck play a huge part in it!!

thats why elway is no.1, put joe cool, in denver and he doesnt last 3 yrs. elway had very little to work with. he took 3 very average teams to the super bowl. true he didnt win till he got t davis, that had alot to do with it, more so than that was he had alot of great players with him then.
elway could do it all

[_VL]

SP: See PM sent as to the typo in my last post as my argument was in support of Montana, not Marino. (Typo from ccing the quote I was addressing).

However, you bring up the exact great point that I, (in my earlier post) and many others, were trying to make as that much of the career of a QB has to do with the "luck" in who he's surrounded by from coaching on down to the field... heck, you even have to throw in General Management when you think about all of the stupid draft picks and trades that have happened over the years... all of which are out of control of the poor QB.

Even when you look at QB stats, you can go all different ways with the arguments as just look at the different ways of coming up with different stats (look at NFL, ESPN, NFL "history" stats, etc., etc.). Bottom line, it's always a heated subject!

edit: However, if we're not only talking about QBs I've actually seen in person, I STILL say YOUNG !!!

[SP1966]

thats why elway is no.1, put joe cool, in denver and he doesnt last 3 yrs. elway had very little to work with. he took 3 very average teams to the super bowl. true he didnt win till he got t davis, that had alot to do with it, more so than that was he had alot of great players with him then.
elway could do it all
How many players could match Montana's/Young's record had they played on that team? Many I would bet!

[SP1966]

SP: See PM sent as to the typo in my last post as my argument was in support of Montana, not Marino. (Typo from ccing the quote I was addressing).

However, you bring up the exact great point that I, (in my earlier post) and many others, were trying to make as that much of the career of a QB has to do with the "luck" in who he's surrounded by from coaching on down to the field... heck, you even have to throw in General Management when you think about all of the stupid draft picks and trades that have happened over the years... all of which are out of control of the poor QB.

Even when you look at QB stats, you can go all different ways with the arguments as just look at the different ways of coming up with different stats (look at NFL, ESPN, NFL "history" stats, etc., etc.). Bottom line, it's always a heated subject!

edit: However, if we're not only talking about QBs I've actually seen in person, I STILL say YOUNG !!!
I agree. I would go further and say the QB position is the most important player on any team, but not nearly as important as it is made out to be. Look at what a good, not great offensive coach did in Minnesota. Dennis Green had many average QB's and had success with each, the biggest downfall of his teams were that he spent no money on D! Football is the ultimate team sport and way to much credit tends to be given to one position IMO.

[egoatdoor]

Dan Marino was a great QB, but can't be the best of all time without having won a SuperBowl...Montana is #1


Disagree. That depends more on supporting cast. By that logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.

There is not much difference between the two and I really wrestled with it. I put Marino first because his career stats were off the charts( I don't think he ever had a "bad" year), he did make the Super Bowl more than once even though he didn't win one and I felt he did what he did with a much weaker supporting cast, especially in regards to a running game, than Montana.

I'm with ASwede and stand by my choice.

[_VL]

There is not much difference between the two and I really wrestled with it. I put Marino first because his career stats were off the charts( I don't think he ever had a "bad" year), he did make the Super Bowl more than once even though he didn't win one and I felt he did what he did with a much weaker supporting cast, especially in regards to a running game, than Montana...

My vote is still for Montana over Marino.. (with Young still as #1)

I will concede that, yes, Marino does have incredible traditional stats such as touchdown passes, passing yards, and pass completions. His various records alone also speak for themselves. That's why, whenever we get into football debates, I usually wimp out and just ask sports statisticians for their say because they use odd stats in various comparison equations/computations that I would have never thought of, or have any clue as to what and why, re: deciding who's objectively the "better" QB. (The stat guys kick butt in fantasy football :( ) Stats are always debatable and even the experts don't often agree on what to look at.

edit: I was just "reminded" that you also do make a valid point about supporting cast because Montana and Rice, for instance, were a great marriage (no homo) end of edit

You could very well be right and I could be wrong, as I OFTEN am in life, as to which one was truly the better QB. In fact, I love when I am wrong because it reminds me that I am still alive and have more left to learn. As to football, I am just a chick who is a fan, so my knowledge is very limited!

That being said, bringing it back to a more "emotional" factor, for me, regarding Marino vs. Montana, I simply believe, at least in what I actually saw, that Montana made many plays that no other quarterback could've ever pulled off. I only wish that I could've seen some of his old Notre Dame games as I hear he pulled off feats of magic there too.

Bottom line, it's all just a matter of opinions anyway, so all are valid but good sports debates are always cool and I learn so much from you guys!

[DAVEZILLA]

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. John Elway
4. Terry Bradshaw
5. Johnny Unitas
6. Bart Starr
7. Fran Tarkenton
8. Peyton Manning
9. Warren Moon
10. Brett Favre

[egoatdoor]

My vote is still for Montana over Marino.. (with Young still as #1)

I will concede that, yes, Marino does have incredible traditional stats such as touchdown passes, passing yards, and pass completions. His various records alone also speak for themselves. That's why, whenever we get into football debates, I usually wimp out and just ask sports statisticians for their say because they use odd stats in various comparison equations/computations that I would have never thought of, or have any clue as to what and why, re: deciding who's objectively the "better" QB. (The stat guys kick butt in fantasy football :( ) Stats are always debatable and even the experts don't often agree on what to look at.

edit: I was just "reminded" that you also do make a valid point about supporting cast because Montana and Rice, for instance, were a great marriage (no homo) end of edit

You could very well be right and I could be wrong, as I OFTEN am in life, as to which one was truly the better QB. In fact, I love when I am wrong because it reminds me that I am still alive and have more left to learn. As to football, I am just a chick who is a fan, so my knowledge is very limited!

That being said, bringing it back to a more "emotional" factor, for me, regarding Marino vs. Montana, I simply believe, at least in what I actually saw, that Montana made many plays that no other quarterback could've ever pulled off. I only wish that I could've seen some of his old Notre Dame games as I hear he pulled off feats of magic there too.
Bottom line, it's all just a matter of opinions anyway, so all are valid but good sports debates are always cool and I learn so much from you guys!

You couldn't go wrong with either of those two quarterbacks.

Feats of magic....I saw the 1979 Cotton Bowl on TV. Montana brought Notre Dame back from a 34-12 deficit with less than eight minutes to go in the quarter to beat Houston 35-34. He threw the winning touchdown pass with 2 seconds to go.

[BuckSpin]

Feats of magic....I saw the 1979 Cotton Bowl on TV. Montana brought Notre Dame back from a 34-12 deficit with less than eight minutes to go in the quarter to beat Houston 35-34. He threw the winning touchdown pass with 2 seconds to go.

Saw it too. An Ice Bowl game.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xu1Ce4yzzo4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xu1Ce4yzzo4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[_VL]

Wow. Just watched the video and someone also sent me other highlights from the game. Just one word...

FOOTBALL !!!

(It's watching games like that which make me thankful that my old ticker is in good condition.)...Wow...

[DanVanVliet]

Montana is the all time best. my opinion I see Maning showing up he is good but not an all around QB, just my opinion.

[SP1966]

Montana is the all time best. my opinion I see Maning showing up he is good but not an all around QB, just my opinion.
C'mon Dan, put Maning in that 49'er offense and he would put Montana to shame!!

[ASWEDE]

Montana is the all time best. my opinion I see Maning showing up he is good but not an all around QB, just my opinion.

He was one of the great one's but you have to admit that you are a little biased to him.

[DanVanVliet]

C'mon Dan, put Maning in that 49'er offense and he would put Montana to shame!!

No he is not moble and in the niner offence you needed to be moble.

He was one of the great one's but you have to admit that you are a little biased to him.

A little but he always came threw. moble and very accruate. Elway was also good but remember the 55 to 3 beating Montana gave em?

[ASWEDE]

No he is not moble and in the niner offence you needed to be moble.


A little but he always came threw. moble and very accruate. Elway was also good but remember the 55 to 3 beating Montana gave em?

Yes, I remember that but I don't remember Elway playing defense for the Broncos.

[DanVanVliet]

Yes, I remember that but I don't remember Elway playing defense for the Broncos.

:D I don't remember the defence playing defence for the broncos either:D

[BigDaddy33]

Montana
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Favre
Moon
Starr
Unitas
Fouts
Manning

Thats not in any order, just the 10 best in my opinion, Brady is right there and when he comes back we'll see how he is, he'll more than likely replace one of those guys..

[ASWEDE]

:D I don't remember the defence playing defence for the broncos either:D

I'm not so much saying Montana wasn't a great QB but I do think of the names mentioned he had by far the best supporting cast. If we're talking about all time Super Bowl performances then he definitely has the edge. Marino and Elway would have done well with those teammates as well.

[DanVanVliet]

I'm not so much saying Montana wasn't a great QB but I do think of the names mentioned he had by far the best supporting cast. If we're talking about all time Super Bowl performances then he definitely has the edge. Marino and Elway would have done well with those teammates as well.

You may be right well never know. It was fun watching them though. Lott and the rest damn they were good together.

[ASWEDE]

You may be right well never know. It was fun watching them though. Lott and the rest damn they were good together.

They were great.

[SP1966]

Montana
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Favre
Moon
Starr
Unitas
Fouts
Manning

Thats not in any order, just the 10 best in my opinion, Brady is right there and when he comes back we'll see how he is, he'll more than likely replace one of those guys..
Tarvaris Jackson seems to be missing from many lists here?!? :confused:

[lookingtogrow]

Disagree. That depends more on supporting cast. By that logic, Trent Dilfer is better than Marino.


There is not much difference between the two and I really wrestled with it. I put Marino first because his career stats were off the charts( I don't think he ever had a "bad" year), he did make the Super Bowl more than once even though he didn't win one and I felt he did what he did with a much weaker supporting cast, especially in regards to a running game, than Montana.

I'm with ASwede and stand by my choice.

Just for clarification, I'm not saying we should rank QB's only by their rings...i.e. no question that Trent Dilfer was not better than Marino.

What I am saying is that I don't believe you can give a QB the title, "Greatest QB of all time", without that QB winning a single ring. We all know that supporting cast plays a role, but just because Marino never had a record-setting running back does not excuse him from not winning one. Don't forget that in Marino's first trip to the SB, he was beaten handily by Montana.

While there are teams that have won with all cylinders clicking, many teams have won the big one with one major factor (defense, passing game, running game), with everything else just being good.

In the end, it's about winning championships, and the QB is the central leader of the team. I love Marino...he is certainly one of the best, but he never overcame the challenges to reach the final plateau.

As a comparible thought...which team will more people remember in history...the Buffalo Bills of the early 90's that made it to 4 consecutive SB, only to lose each of them, or the Patriots of the 2000's, who also went to 4 SB (not consecutive) and won 3 of them.

As a team, you clearly have to say the Patriots team was better than the Bills team (as much as I hate the Pats). Likewise, to pick the greatest QB of all time, you have to have one that managed to close the deal on a ring...at least once.

[ASWEDE]

Ok, look at it this way. If Marino was on that 49ers team would they have won a super bowl? I think so. If Elway was on that 49ers team would they have won a super bowl? Yes. If Montana was on that Dolphins team or that Broncos teams would he have won it all.........I'm not as sure about that.

[DanVanVliet]

Ok, look at it this way. If Marino was on that 49ers team would they have won a super bowl? I think so. If Elway was on that 49ers team would they have won a super bowl? Yes. If Montana was on that Dolphins team or that Broncos teams would he have won it all.........I'm not as sure about that.

Montana was a mobile QB Elway and marino were not that makes a big difference. my opinion

[BuckSpin]

Using this logic the greatest QB of all time is a no brainer. Otto Graham played for 10 seasons. In EACH of those seasons he led the Browns to the league championship game (4 AAFC, 6 NFL) and won 7 of them.

His record as a starter? 105-17-4

Now, name one other pro QB who won 7 championship rings as a starter, and played for the league championship every year for a DECADE?

[bigpayno]

1. Joe Montana
2. Y.A. Tittle
3. Peyton Manning
4. Dan Marino
5. Terry Bradshaw
6. Troy Aikman
7. George Blanda
8. Johnny Unitas
9. Brett Favre
10. Roger Stabauch

[ASWEDE]

Montana was a mobile QB Elway and marino were not that makes a big difference. my opinion

Young Elway was as mobile. You should know, your team made him run for his life. :)

[DanVanVliet]

Young Elway was as mobile. You should know, your team made him run for his life. :)

Yea they just got caught more that Montana did.

[ASWEDE]

Yea they just got caught more that Montana did.

That's because they actually had someone chasing after him!

[lookingtogrow]

Montana was a mobile QB Elway and marino were not that makes a big difference. my opinion

Agree totally...this makes a huge difference, because of the amount of time (3 seconds or so) that a mobile quarterback can extend a play, which allows receivers to find a way to get open when coverage is good. It doesn't just have the potential of opening up a downfield receiver, but also the close range eligible offensive players, because once a QB breaks out of the pocket defenders other than the D-Line have to collapse to contain him.

The reason why Montana was better than both Marino and Elway was not only because he had Rice and other weapons, but because he could create opportunities on a consistent basis, and because there has been no better 2 minute drill QB in the game...ever. If had to pick any QB to drive my team down the field in the last 2 minutes, when my team was within a score, and I would pick Montana in his day every time. He's the only quarterback who could make an opposing team feel like they were losing the game, when they were actually beating the Niners by a few points with 1:30 left to play in the game.

[lookingtogrow]

Using this logic the greatest QB of all time is a no brainer. Otto Graham played for 10 seasons. In EACH of those seasons he led the Browns to the league championship game (4 AAFC, 6 NFL) and won 7 of them.

His record as a starter? 105-17-4

Now, name one other pro QB who won 7 championship rings as a starter, and played for the league championship every year for a DECADE?

wow...strong record...

[ASWEDE]

Tarvaris Jackson seems to be missing from many lists here?!? :confused:

Well, he's a mobile QB so he must be great. :)

[DanVanVliet]

Agree totally...this makes a huge difference, because of the amount of time (3 seconds or so) that a mobile quarterback can extend a play, which allows receivers to find a way to get open when coverage is good. It doesn't just have the potential of opening up a downfield receiver, but also the close range eligible offensive players, because once a QB breaks out of the pocket defenders other than the D-Line have to collapse to contain him.

The reason why Montana was better than both Marino and Elway was not only because he had Rice and other weapons, but because he could create opportunities on a consistent basis, and because there has been no better 2 minute drill QB in the game...ever. If had to pick any QB to drive my team down the field in the last 2 minutes, when my team was within a score, and I would pick Montana in his day every time. He's the only quarterback who could make an opposing team feel like they were losing the game, when they were actually beating the Niners by a few points with 1:30 left to play in the game.

This nuf said.

[Hengman]

My order:

1) Dan Marino
2) Steve Young
3) Joe Montana
4) John Elway
5) Peyton Manning
6) Joe Namath
7) Brett Favre
8) Troy Aikmen
9) Terry Bradshaw
10) Tom Brady

[Mr. ESPN]

AND the frustrating thing overall is that in discussing the "success" of any QB you have to remember that it all depends on who the poor guys are surrounded by.

Brady won 3 Superbowls with no name receivers. Then he got a big play making receiver and broke the TD record, the TD/Int ratio record, and almost went undefeated for a perfect season. In my opinion, Brady is far and away better then any other quarterback currently playing.

[_VL]

Using this logic the greatest QB of all time is a no brainer. Otto Graham played for 10 seasons. In EACH of those seasons he led the Browns to the league championship game (4 AAFC, 6 NFL) and won 7 of them.

His record as a starter? 105-17-4

Now, name one other pro QB who won 7 championship rings as a starter, and played for the league championship every year for a DECADE?

O.K., I just ran back in to check on this thread. Buck, Otto is #2 on my list (see initial post), not for W-L, and not just for the interesting stat analysis the authors did that I agreed with; but in my heart the guy's claim is solid for absolute ability. The problem is that in all fairness to any QB before 1978, we should really keep them on a list of their own because it's truly a different game since then. Folks talk about the ball, ya-da, ya-da, but look at the changes in the rules that screw up looking at all of the QB statistics, the passing rules for example. That's why the QB's after 1978 have it "easy" in comparison, not only in game play itself, but also on the impact on stats.

If you want to consider something mind blowing, think about if Otto or Sammy had played in the 1990s!!!

As to any "greatest teams in history" debates, I try to avoid them because I almost lost one boyfriend over our differences there and I love you guys too much to end up wanting to bump heads when I see you in person.

Bottom line, sometimes there never is an answer to who is the best QB because I think you can only TRULY speak to plays that you actually saw where you shudder in a jaw dropping response and wonder "How in the heck did he just pull that off?!" or "How in the heck can he possibly think that quickly on his feet?!" or any one of the many many questions in those moments that make you love the sport! ;)

[BigDaddy33]

As a team, you clearly have to say the Patriots team was better than the Bills team (as much as I hate the Pats). Likewise, to pick the greatest QB of all time, you have to have one that managed to close the deal on a ring...at least once.

Clearly?!?!?!?! I don't believe the Pats competed against a team in the Super Bowl nearly as good as Dallas and Washington those years (I don't think the Giants were that good in 25). I no doubt think the Pat teams are good, but those Bills teams would win more than lose against them. The competition is just watered down more than it used to be. The Cowboys teams were incredible back then and the Pats have'nt had to face a team that was that good in the Super Bowl. I dont think any of the teams today are as good as the teams previously: 90's Bills, Cowboys, Niners. 80's: Bears, Niners. 70's: Steelers, Cowboys, Vikes.... Just examples of teams that would Destroy most teams today, Thats just my take.... If anyone goes to 4 straight SB's again let me know.....

[Rhinoclan]

O.K., I just ran back in to check on this thread. Buck, Otto is #2 on my list (see initial post), not for W-L, and not just for the interesting stat analysis the authors did that I agreed with; but in my heart the guy's claim is solid for absolute ability. The problem is that in all fairness to any QB before 1978, we should really keep them on a list of their own because it's truly a different game since then. Folks talk about the ball, ya-da, ya-da, but look at the changes in the rules that screw up looking at all of the QB statistics, the passing rules for example. That's why the QB's after 1978 have it "easy" in comparison, not only in game play itself, but also on the impact on stats.

If you want to consider something mind blowing, think about if Otto or Sammy had played in the 1990s!!!

As to any "greatest teams in history" debates, I try to avoid them because I almost lost one boyfriend over our differences there and I love you guys too much to end up wanting to bump heads when I see you in person.

Bottom line, sometimes there never is an answer to who is the best QB because I think you can only TRULY speak to plays that you actually saw where you shudder in a jaw dropping response and wonder "How in the heck did he just pull that off?!" or "How in the heck can he possibly think that quickly on his feet?!" or any one of the many many questions in those moments that make you love the sport! ;)


Comparing against different generations is hard. Not only due to the rules, but who they played against. The size of QB's hasn't changed for the most part. Otto Graham was a 6' 1" 210# QB. Brett Favre is 6'2" and 220. Ray Lewis is 6'1" and 250, Jack Lambert weighed 220# at 6'4" and wasn't near as fast.

[Hengman]

Clearly?!?!?!?! I don't believe the Pats competed against a team in the Super Bowl nearly as good as Dallas and Washington those years (I don't think the Giants were that good in 25). I no doubt think the Pat teams are good, but those Bills teams would win more than lose against them. The competition is just watered down more than it used to be. The Cowboys teams were incredible back then and the Pats have'nt had to face a team that was that good in the Super Bowl. I dont think any of the teams today are as good as the teams previously: 90's Bills, Cowboys, Niners. 80's: Bears, Niners. 70's: Steelers, Cowboys, Vikes.... Just examples of teams that would Destroy most teams today, Thats just my take.... If anyone goes to 4 straight SB's again let me know.....

Well, bro.

Football has evolved over the years. From the rules to the gameplay.

Some of the new rookies are even breaking records (exaggeration, but look at Adrian Peterson).

Patriots vs. Rams in the Superbowl. Rams had an amazing offense.

I have to admit that I was a huge Cowboys fan when they had the big three on the offense. However, if you look at the Cowboys now, they have an incredible setup for the offense (I just think that they need more time to get anywhere). Probably one of the best to exist in the NFL, but I'm just predicting since there are some of the MOST talented players in there right now.

The ONLY thing I hate about the NFL currently is that my favorite players are getting hurt more and more every year, which I didn't see back in the 90s too often. :(

[BuckSpin]

Comparing against different generations is hard. Not only due to the rules, but who they played against. The size of QB's hasn't changed for the most part. Otto Graham was a 6' 1" 210# QB. Brett Favre is 6'2" and 220. Ray Lewis is 6'1" and 250, Jack Lambert weighed 220# at 6'4" and wasn't near as fast.

Lets also throw in expansion (a REALLY watered down league now) and the fact they play so many more games to rack up stats.

[BigDaddy33]

Plus the fact that alot of the guys care only about stats today..... I agree the Cowboys are good now, but not even close to the 90's version.. The 90's Bills would be happy to play the "new" Cowboys in the Super Bowl. The Bills should be celebrateing their 4th Hall of Famer (Bruce Smith) from that era soon....

I don't think most teams today have a chemistry like they used to have. You know, maybe did'nt really care for each other, but on the field nothing mattered but winning, all other crap was set aside. The Cowboys will win a playoff game if they get rid of TO...

[lookingtogrow]

Clearly?!?!?!?! I don't believe the Pats competed against a team in the Super Bowl nearly as good as Dallas and Washington those years (I don't think the Giants were that good in 25). I no doubt think the Pat teams are good, but those Bills teams would win more than lose against them. The competition is just watered down more than it used to be. The Cowboys teams were incredible back then and the Pats have'nt had to face a team that was that good in the Super Bowl. I dont think any of the teams today are as good as the teams previously: 90's Bills, Cowboys, Niners. 80's: Bears, Niners. 70's: Steelers, Cowboys, Vikes.... Just examples of teams that would Destroy most teams today, Thats just my take.... If anyone goes to 4 straight SB's again let me know.....

Are you sure about that?

"The Rams finished the 2001 season with the NFL's best regular season record at 14-2, and advanced to their second Super Bowl appearance in the last 3 seasons. In 2001, they led the league in both total offensive yards (6,930) and scoring (503). This was their third consecutive season with over 500 points, an NFL record. On defense, they only allowed 271 points, improving their 31st ranking from last season to 7th.

Their offense, nicknamed "The Greatest Show on Turf," is widely considered one of the best in NFL history. There seemed to be an endless amount of offensive talent at every position. Quarterback Kurt Warner was awarded the NFL Most Valuable Player Award after throwing for 4,830 yards and 36 touchdowns, with 22 interceptions, and earning a league high 101.4 passer rating. Wide receivers Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce each amassed over 1,100 receiving yards, combining for 142 receptions, 2,469 yards, and 13 touchdowns. Wide receiver Ricky Proehl caught 40 passes for 563 yards and 5 touchdowns. Tight end Ernie Conwell caught 38 passes for 431 yards and 4 touchdowns. Wide receiver Az-Zahir Hakim caught 39 passes for 374 yards, and added another 333 yards returning punts.

Running back Marshall Faulk won NFL Offensive Player of the Year Award for the third year in a row. He rushed for 1,382 yards, caught 83 passes for 765 yards, scored 21 touchdowns, and became the first NFL player ever to gain more than 2,000 combined rushing and receiving yards for 4 consecutive seasons. Running back Trung Canidate was also a major contributor, rushing for 441 yards, catching 17 passes for 154 yards, returning kickoffs for 748 yards, and scoring 6 touchdowns. Up front, their offensive line was led by guard Adam Timmerman and offensive tackle Orlando Pace, who was selected to the Pro Bowl for the third year in a row.

The Rams also had a solid defense, ranking third in the league in fewest yards allowed (4,733). The line was anchored by Pro Bowl defensive end Leonard Little, who led the team with 14.5 sacks and recovered a fumble, and defensive end Grant Wistrom, who recorded 9 sacks, 2 interceptions, and 1 fumble recovery. Behind them, the Rams linebacking core was led by London Fletcher, who had 4.5 sacks and 2 interceptions. St. Louis also had an outstanding secondary, led by Dre' Bly (6 interceptions, 150 return yards, and 2 touchdowns), Pro Bowler Aeneas Williams (4 interceptions, 69 return yards, 2 touchdowns), and Dexter McCleon (4 interceptions, 66 yards)."

[ASWEDE]

Clearly, if we can't come to the same conclusion of who was best with QB's from the same era, it's ridiculous to compare them from different eras.

[DanVanVliet]

Montana is the greatest of all time. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyy:D

[ASWEDE]

Montana is the greatest of all time. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaabbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyy:D

taste great

[DanVanVliet]

taste great

:D..

[BigDaddy33]

Clearly, if we can't come to the same conclusion of who was best with QB's from the same era, it's ridiculous to compare them from different eras.

Why not? Who says we can't. I believe we can....

Those are nice stats on the Rams, lots offense, couldnt beat the Pats and barley beat Tennesee,, so, the 90's Cowboys and Bills would still beat them!! All that offense and only 40 pts in two bowls. Over the last 13 bowls, the most points in a game have been scored by Tampa, a defensive team..

[ASWEDE]

Why not? Who says we can't. I believe we can....

Those are nice stats on the Rams, the 90's Cowboys and Bills would still beat them!!

I didn't say you couldn't debate it, just that there's no way to really come to a conclusion. Stats can be misleading.

[DanVanVliet]

The eightys 49ers would beat any team now playing or any team who ever played before them:D

[ASWEDE]

The eightys 49ers would beat any team now playing or any team who ever played before them:D

Says the devoted 49ers fan! :)

[DanVanVliet]

Says the devoted 49ers fan! :)

:D I like all the teams but thought you would like that:D

[ASWEDE]

:D I like all the teams but thought you would like that:D

I forget which year, I think it was the 89' 49ers but I always thought that it was the best team that I've seen. Of course, I'm biased and would tell you on other days in was the 85' Bears. :)

[lookingtogrow]

Ok, just to put some objective statistics in comparing the Bills of the 90's to the Pats of the 00's. By the way, I was a big fan of the Bills in the 90's...I really liked them, just as much as I hate the Patriots, but in the end we have to let statistics speak for themselves. The following stats are averages of regular seasons for the 4 years that each team was in the SB. The Bills were consecutive years, as were their SB appearances, and the Pats were from the 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2007 seasons.

SB Opponents Regular Season Statistics:

Bills Opponents:
Average Record - 13 wins
Points Scored - 401.25
Points Allowed - 226.75
Yards Gained - 5,442
Yards Allowed - 4,511
Offense Rank - 5th
Defense Rank - 2.5
QB Rating - 94.75

Pats Opponents:
Average Record - 12 wins
Points Scored - 396.75
Points Allowed - 296.50
Yards Gained - 5,748
Yards Allowed - 4,863
Offense Rank - 9.5
Defense Rank - 9th
QB Rating - 90.15

When you look at the numbers, you can scratch the difference between yards gained and allowed, because the differential in both is similar (around 900 yards difference). There is a one win differential between the opponents, in favor of the Bills. While the points scored are similar, the opponents' defenses for the Bills were more stingy than the Pats opponents. The Bills did play teams that were ranked better in offense and defense than the Pats, with QB that had higher ratings. Overall, the statement that the Bills' opponents were stronger teams in comparison to the rest of the league is accurate.

Now, let's look at the stats of the teams themselves from the same years:

Bills:
Average Record - 12 wins
Points Scored - 399.00
Points Allowed - 276.50
Yards Gained - 5,671
Yards Allowed - 5,076
Offense Rank - 3.25
Defense Rank - 11th
QB Rating - 89.98

Pats:
Average Record - 14 wins
Points Scored - 436.25
Points Allowed - 261.00
Yards Gained - 5,555
Yards Allowed - 4,901
Offense Rank - 5.75
Defense Rank - 3.25
QB Rating - 95.55

Pitch the yard differential again (about 600 yards for each), and look at the rest. The Pats averaged 2 more wins, more points scored, less points allowed, a better QB rating, and a much better ranked defense. The Bills did have a better ranked offense by a couple of slots.

So, the Pats were a better team in comparison to the rest of the league, whereas the Bills played opponents in the SB that were stronger against the rest of their league. Because of that, you'll have some people claim that the Pats won 3 SB only because they played weaker competition, but others will say that the Pats were clearly a better team than the rest of the league when they won. Fact is, both statements can be backed up. So how do the differences stack up, and which might have contributed more to the SB wins?

Average Record - 1 win difference vs. 2 wins, in favor of Pats
Points Scored - 4.5 point difference vs. 37.25, in favor of Pats
Points Allowed - 69.75 point difference vs. 15.5, in favor of Bills
Offense Rank - 4.5 difference vs. 2.5, in favor of Bills (both)
Defense Rank - 6.5 difference vs. 7.75, in favor of Pats
QB Rating - 4.6 difference vs. 5.6, in favor of Pats
SB wins - 0 vs. 3, in favor of Pats

If I were to give my opinion, I would say that the Pats performance was more the factor than the quality of their opponents. That's just my opinion...I'll let you all make your judgments based upon the data.

[DanVanVliet]

Thats my reading for the year damn:D

[egoatdoor]

Just popping in to give reps to all you guys and girls for your wonderful replies to this thread! This is great!!

[BigDaddy33]

Just popping in to give reps to all you guys and girls for your wonderful replies to this thread! This is great!!

Thanks...

I didnt quote it would be too long..

Stats are just that Stats... (impressed you took the time by the way). Ive watched both teams closely (what happened to the Rams),, anyway, I think the 90's Bills vs. 00's Pats would be a great game and probably would be a split....both teams just wanted to win, Buffalo would just not go down with out a fight. That said, I think the 90's Cowboys (as much as I dislike them) would Beat up on them both... well they did beat on Buffalo...

[lookingtogrow]

Thanks...

I didnt quote it would be too long..

Stats are just that Stats... (impressed you took the time by the way). Ive watched both teams closely (what happened to the Rams),, anyway, I think the 90's Bills vs. 00's Pats would be a great game and probably would be a split....both teams just wanted to win, Buffalo would just not go down with out a fight. That said, I think the 90's Cowboys (as much as I dislike them) would Beat up on them both... well they did beat on Buffalo...

No question that those Cowboys were something else. That team showed just what an incredible O-Line can do for a team's offense. They gave Aikman incredible time to find receivers, and opened massive holes for Emmitt to run through.

[Dad_in_KC]

I am not going to include any QB outside of my era - not fair.

1970 - Current

1. Elway
2. Marino
3. Manning, Pe
4. Montana
5. Tarkenton
6. Bradshaw
7. Staubach
8. Fouts
9. Kelley
10. McNabb

[jf1]

1. Joe Montana
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Roger Staubach
4. Fran Tarkenton
5. Steve Young
6. Bart Starr
7. Bob Griese
8. Ken Stabler
9. Dan Marino
10. John Elway

YES!
i dont know about the other 9, but i completely agree with joe montana as number 1!

joe montana was the best thing a quarterback could be; A WINNER!
something marino never was!

[tinyman5000]

1. marino
2. farve
3. elway
4. unitas
5. fouts
6. brady*
7. Tarkenton
8. Rothlisberger (hes number 3 if he wins the superbowl this year)
9. Bradshaw
10. Peyton manning

[egoatdoor]

Brett Favre in the top 10?Im sorry but putting a QB who has thrown for a ton of yards doesnt mean he should be mentioned as an all time great. Brett Favre is an INT machine.


Bumping this thread in tribute of the man who is NOT among the top ten after another ill advised meltdown brain dead play with his team in field goal range in the final seconds of a champiosnhip game. The great Brett Favre.

[user94984100999]

Montana for sure!! my other fav's Troy Aikman,Dan Marino,Tom Brady.

[JolietKev]

I am not going to include any QB outside of my era - not fair.

1970 - Current

1. Elway
2. Marino
3. Manning, Pe
4. Montana
5. Tarkenton
6. Bradshaw
7. Staubach
8. Fouts
9. Kelley
10. McNabb

How can you put Mcnabb on that list? That is pretty laughable actually. He is an OK QB but that is about it. He is not even the best QB the Eagles have had in the past 30 years. Jaworski, Cunningham were better IMO.

[JolietKev]

When it is all said and done I believe Big Ben will be on that list. 2 SB wins already at his age. He came out as a junior so he is still very young and has not even come into his prime as a QB yet. If the Steelers get some help on the O line he should be around for another 10 years. He does not get the pub that many of the other QBs get, however if you look at the number of games he has won in the fourth quarter along with his total number of wins at this point, they are pretty impressive. I hope that he quits partying so much though and focuses more on his fitness level. He reminds me a lot of Kenny Stabler.

[mickyb55]

Bumping this thread in tribute of the man who is NOT among the top ten after another ill advised meltdown brain dead play with his team in field goal range in the final seconds of a champiosnhip game. The great Brett Favre.

As I was watching that game with a buddy of mine, we were commenting on that last drive how "this is the stuff to seal his legend" or "he's going to blow it" ! Then, Childress totally mismanages the clock, they get the penalty and Brett throws a pick. Brain dead is a great way to describe the management of that last minute, including Brett's throw. Farve has always broken his fans heart.

As for my top 10 QB's of all time, I'm listing in no order only those that I witnessed play in the NFL:

Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John elway, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw (he wins!), Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Dan Fouts, Joe Namath, then would have to add either Jim Kelly or Kurt Warner. John Unitas belongs on every list but I didn't see much of him.

[ElMariachi]

I am not going to include any QB outside of my era - not fair.

1970 - Current

1. Elway
2. Marino
3. Manning, Pe
4. Montana
5. Tarkenton
6. Bradshaw
7. Staubach
8. Fouts
9. Kelley
10. McNabb



McNabb and Fouts ahead of Steve Young and Favre? I think you fell and hit your head.

[bigvin73]

Without getting into an argument bumping people off the list, (and I might have missed it in this thread somewhere) seems to me people forget Archie Manning. Roger Staubach himself said if Archie played on his cowboy team that he would have been the greatest of all time. Just saying it was not his fault he was on an awful team.

As for the Farve folks sorry, while I agree Mcnabb and Kelly have no business being a top 10 they are both ahead of Favre in my book. Favre is a media creation and a compiler that is all, he has cost his teams as many games as he has won for them.

[bigvin73]

McNabb and Fouts ahead of Steve Young and Favre? I think you fell and hit your head.

Steve Young was a system guy plain and simple, sorry look at his time in tampa and the USFL. Take Young out of that SF offence and he is mediocre at best and Favre, see my last post.

[ElMariachi]

Steve Young was a system guy plain and simple, sorry look at his time in tampa and the USFL. Take Young out of that SF offence and he is mediocre at best and Favre, see my last post.




lulz.

[Mulewhipper]

Not gonna read this whole thread...but just off the top of my head here goes:


1. Montana
2. Bradshaw
3. Aikman
4. Unitas
5. Elway
6. Marino
7. Brady
8. P. Manning
9. Fouts
10. Kelly

Winning Super Bowls and clutch play in the playoffs is certainly a big factor for me when considering "The Best of All Times" I know it's not the ONLY thing to consider, but it is up there at the top. Along with Super Bowl wins, one would also need to have great career (regualar season) stats and longevity.
But getting to (especially winning) the Super Bowl is what every quarterback is judged on.

[quicksand jesus]

That I have seen. Not in order

Marino
Manning(Peyton)
Montana
Brady
Aikman
Bradshaw
Staubach
Farvre
Elway
Fouts

[egoatdoor]

Two years later, my updated list:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Tom Brady 8. Fran Tarkenton 9. Joe Namath 10. (tie) Sammy Baugh, Terry Bradshaw and Y. A Tittle.

Brady's three Super Bowl rings and a 16-0 regular season puts him on my list now. Peyton has to win another Super Bowl to merit consideration.

And for those who bashed me two years ago for not considering Brett Favre, his late season meltdown this year proved me right again.

Regardless of what happens in Miami, Peyton has shown me something this year, especially last week. 2010, he's now top ten:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Steve Young 7. Tom Brady 8. Fran Tarkenton 9. Peyton Manning 10. (tie)Joe Namath, Sammy Baugh and Terry Bradshaw.

[GuyJin]

Hard to say. Eras differ in terms of when the forward pass became a lethal weapon. Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman in their era--when the pass was relatively new--were the best then.

Current age, in no particular order: Manning (Eli), Favre, Marino, Staubach, Elway, Unitas, Namath, Bradshaw, Kelly, Warren Moon (sorry; had to throw in a token Canadian!). It's too difficult to put anyone at Number One for me; doesn't depend solely on total yardage thrown. If you factor in interceptions, ability to run with the ball when necessary, play when injured, etc.--any one of these guys could be the top pick. Too difficult for me to say who'd claim the top spot.

[JontheAtheist]

Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Dan McGwire, Drew Brees, Vinny Testaverde, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, and Kurt Warner.









Totally messing with you guys. Lol.

I seriously dont have a top ten. :( I like baseball.

[GuyJin]

Warren Moon, Randall Cunningham, Dan McGwire, Drew Brees, Vinny Testaverde, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre, and Kurt Warner.--------

Totally messing with you guys. Lol.

I seriously dont have a top ten. :( I like baseball.

----------

That's what we need: A top-ten baseball thread!

[JontheAtheist]

----------

That's what we need: A top-ten baseball thread!

I concur.

[egoatdoor]

Hard to say. Eras differ in terms of when the forward pass became a lethal weapon. Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman in their era--when the pass was relatively new--were the best then.

Current age, in no particular order: Manning (Eli), Favre, Marino, Staubach, Elway, Unitas, Namath, Bradshaw, Kelly, Warren Moon (sorry; had to throw in a token Canadian!). It's too difficult to put anyone at Number One for me; doesn't depend solely on total yardage thrown. If you factor in interceptions, ability to run with the ball when necessary, play when injured, etc.--any one of these guys could be the top pick. Too difficult for me to say who'd claim the top spot.

??? Eli??? Over Brady, Peyton and even Kurt Warner??? Shoot, Donovan McNabb may be a better quarterback today than Eli and that's not saying much.

[GuyJin]

??? Eli??? Over Brady, Peyton and even Kurt Warner??? Shoot, Donovan McNabb may be a better quarterback today than Eli and that's not saying much.

--------

Granted, I'm projecting a bit on Manning's stats and, yes, he hasn't finished off his career, but thus far his stats have shown him to be better off--or at least equal to--the other three you mentioned. Intangibles such as leadership come to mind, along with less injury time. Kurt Warner is a fine QB, but with all the injuries he's had, he's spent more time lying on his back than your average hooker. (No misogny intended to those hard-working ladies!). Moreover, I never said the others weren't bad; I just don't think they're the same. Different opinions and all that. And if you dare to compare (which we all do) Warner, McNabb and Brady to Staubach, Bradshaw and Montana, they don't really come close, IMO.

Now, for the baseball players thread...

[free816]

till peyton or brady or anyone else not name elway takes a 4-12 talent team to a super bowl, im not putting anybody (ive ever seen) ahead of elway. those late 80 bronco teams were terrible. all the qb's on the list had hall of famers all around him. take a look at elway's prime years from 85-93 when denver went to 3 super bowls. not one cat is in or will ever get in. im a oakland fan, so this isnt homerism, the further we get away from his career it seems the more people are forgetting how good that cat was. td gets the credit for the rings in the late 90's when elway was 38 yrs old, and that he couldnt win b4 td, but name 5 dudes from those late 80 bronco teams?

[Mulewhipper]

im a oakland fan,

Sorry about that :p

[free816]

Sorry about that :p

last 7yrs dont take away my first 25 yrs of being a fan,, these last 7 as al gets more and more senile is testing my fandom :) hopefully this new qb coach can turn russell into a player. lose 30 lbs, live in the facility, turn mcfadden loose, get a real vet wr (marvin harrison would be perfect) to teach all the young pups, find 2 pass rushers, we would be all set :)

[egoatdoor]

NFL Network and NFL.com just ran their list of the Top 100 NFL players of all time:

http://top100.nfl.com/

The top 10 quarterbacks, with the number of their rank in the Top 100:

1. Joe Montana(4)

2. Johnny Unitas (6)

3. Peyton Manning (8). Manning continues to move up my list. What he is doing this year with a second rate supporting cast is amazing.

4. Sammy Baugh (14)

5. Otto Graham (16). He's forgotten by most people, including myself.

6. Brett Favre (20)

7. Tom Brady (21).

8. John Elway (23)

9. Dan Marino (25).

10. Sid Luckman (33).

Others: Roger Staubach, 46, Terry Bradshaw 50, Bart Starr(51) Troy Aikman 80, Steve Young 81, ,Norm Van Brocklin 83, Kurt Warner 90, Fran Tarkenton 91, Joe Namath 100.

I have issues with Favre ahead of Brady and especially Elway and surprised that Namath was so low.

I was glad to see the old timers got equal billing.

[JoelM05]

What, no Bubby Brister?? :mad: :D

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/profile-ak-snc4/object3/113/29/n76725515128_3216.jpg

[egoatdoor]

No Trent Dilfer either. :D

[Craig98203]

Not necessarily in order:

1. Joe Montana
2. Dan Marino
3. Brett Favre
4. Sammy Baugh
5. Terry Bradshaw
6. Peyton Manning
7. John Elway
8. Joe Namath
9. Roger Staubach
10. Johnny Unitas

[Porkchop74]

All I see is QB from the 70s on I know I never watched him play but when you look at history you have to put Otto Graham in the top 10. The only issue I see with many including Brett Favre is his interceptions man he throws way to many in my mind.

in no order .
Joe Montana
Dan Marino I wish he had a running back !
Johnny Unitas
Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young
Bart Starr
Tom Brady
Otto Graham
John Elway (I have always hated him but can't keep him out he was a great QB)
Warren Moon ( way underrated )

[egoatdoor]

July 2012, my current top ten:

1. Dan Marino 2. Joe Montana 3. Roger Staubach 4. Johnny Unitas 5. John Elway 6. Tom Brady 7. Steve Young 8. Peyton Manning 9. Otto Graham 10. (tie)Joe Namath, Sammy Baugh and Fran Tarkenton