what bodyfat % do you have to be at to be "within striking distance?"

[John Prophet]

in other words...a guy with 20% bodyfat cant really make statements such as "I am 14 weeks out from contest shape".

He cant realy even tell what he will look like or how much muscle he will have etc..especially on his chest, side delts etc because of all the fat


so what % are we talking about to where you have a good idea of where you are at to where you can plan x amount of weeks to a show etc?

lets say you lose fat etc and come down and stabilize at , ohhh, 13%. Are you then at a point where you can plan a 12-16 week prep period for a show?

[SleepLifter]

i would say a reasonable stiking distance to be within 15 weeks of a show is 12% bodyfat. Remember, the last week or so you should be done losing, its all tweaking from there

[RBEliminator]

John,

My understanding of your question, is your looking for a decent starting point to begin dieting. Of course the leaner one is the easier it will be. IMO, a healthy offseason goal is to stay below 14%. Above that and the dieting process becomes that much more difficult. This is based on the people I've worked with, not myself. Now 14% is rather high, and a lot of it depends on your bodytype. At 14% I suggest one diet for a minimum of 18 and as much as 24 weeks.

I'll be starting my own personal diet the first week of January. I am currently 12-13% BF and I will be dieting for 19-20 weeks, to get to 3-4% to step on stage.

[gangsta1087]

John,

My understanding of your question, is your looking for a decent starting point to begin dieting. Of course the leaner one is the easier it will be. IMO, a healthy offseason goal is to stay below 14%. Above that and the dieting process becomes that much more difficult. This is based on the people I've worked with, not myself. Now 14% is rather high, and a lot of it depends on your bodytype. At 14% I suggest one diet for a minimum of 18 and as much as 24 weeks.

I'll be starting my own personal diet the first week of January. I am currently 12-13% BF and I will be dieting for 19-20 weeks, to get to 3-4% to step on stage.


how much do weigh and how many pounds do u plan on loosing

[chuckles_345]

I agree, I'm staying below 12% this time. The first time I dieted it took 14 weeks to get from 12-13% down to 5.5% and this past time it took 27 weeks to get from 18% down to 4.5% so I'd say 12-14% is all the higher a person should get or contest prep could suck.

Chuckles

[Jem777]

27 weeks to get from 18% down to 4.5%

holy crap man, that's a long time to cut. I'm competing in January '08 and was wondering how long I should diet for. Right now I'm at about 16% bf, and am about to embark on a 8 month long bulk. Can't even think about how long I'd need to cut for, I was thinking 6 months. Or can I do a short cut cycle now, bulk a little more, then cut down for my show?

[John Prophet]

. Now 14% is rather high, and a lot of it depends on your bodytype.

lol. I suppose that is one major difference between a true bodybuilder and the typical gym rat. In a typical gym, a guy with 14% bodyfat is looked upon as pretty lean. At least thats how it is in my gym. I can only think of one guy in my gym who probably carries 11-12% all year....and people gawk at him like he is a god, lol.

I suppose that is why guys in the gym feel frustrated that they dont look like the guys in magazines....because no matter how much they lift, if they stay around 14-15% they just wont have muscles "popping out" and good cuts and lines. For instance they wont have a sharp line between the side delt and the bicep.

The "lean" guy in my gym weighs like 165...he is just coming out of contest shape where he was going to compete in the NPC nats in welterweights.......he always wears tank tops and people stare at him and always ask him for advice, lol......I weigh 228ish and I could come in and blow a trumpet and no one would notice, lol...because my bf% is too high at the moment.


lets say you have the same guy in 2 different conditions:

1) 228 lbs, 24.5% bf (172 lean mass), 17.5" arms

2) 198lbs, 13.2% bf (172 lean mass), say 16" arms


which guy is going to look bigger?


the "#1" guy is pretty much where I am at right now....but I am eating pretty good for the last few weeks so my weight and waist is going down. But I am nervous that I will look like a twig when I get under 200ish.

8% with 172 lean mass would be around 185. If I got down that low would I look like a marathon runner when I have my clothes on?? Is that why lean guys always where tank tops etc? because thye look like underwear models in street clothes?? lol

[RBEliminator]

how much do weigh and how many pounds do u plan on loosing


I currently weigh 228-230:
so at 12% I have roughly 203 lbs of LBM.
at 14% I have roughly 198 lbs of LBM. I'll diet down to around 205. Step on stage 200-205.

[RBEliminator]

lol. I suppose that is one major difference between a true bodybuilder and the typical gym rat. In a typical gym, a guy with 14% bodyfat is looked upon as pretty lean. At least thats how it is in my gym. I can only think of one guy in my gym who probably carries 11-12% all year....and people gawk at him like he is a god, lol.

I suppose that is why guys in the gym feel frustrated that they dont look like the guys in magazines....because no matter how much they lift, if they stay around 14-15% they just wont have muscles "popping out" and good cuts and lines. For instance they wont have a sharp line between the side delt and the bicep.

8% with 172 lean mass would be around 185. If I got down that low would I look like a marathon runner when I have my clothes on?? Is that why lean guys always where tank tops etc? because thye look like underwear models in street clothes?? lol

IMO, anything above 10% BF is not lean. Honestly it is not that difficult to maintain a healthy bodyfat if one has proper nutrition, meaning they count their calories, and implement some proven strategies in their diets.

Well, at 185, you will look 185. I can't really answer that. I would also reason the individual who weighs less yet carries a lower BF% will also "look" bigger. In bodybuilding terms it does not matter how much you weigh, just how much you like you weigh.

[John Prophet]

for instance...the guy in my gym weighs a TOTAL of about 165....my lean mass only is about 172.....yet he looks way bigger, lol

I am a coupel inches taller and I have more of mine in the legs/glutes.....he has more on his arms/delts and always wears tank tops, lol

I am just wondering for instance how we will compare once I get down to around 10%, which would be 191ish with 172 lean

[SleepLifter]

height is a huge factor..i mean look at an IFBB pro like Dexter Jacskon who, at 215, can hold his own against mass monsters who sometimes have 70 lbs on his.
Dexter Jacskon is 5'6, so this becomes possible.

To asnwer your question: the leaner you get, the smaller you will look in clothes, yet the more impressive you will look out of them. As far as this guy looking bigger than you, there are several factors, including height and weight distribution. When you are closer to 3% bodyfat, you will definatley appear larger than someone that much smaller than you.

[chuckles_345]

holy crap man, that's a long time to cut. I'm competing in January '08 and was wondering how long I should diet for. Right now I'm at about 16% bf, and am about to embark on a 8 month long bulk. Can't even think about how long I'd need to cut for, I was thinking 6 months. Or can I do a short cut cycle now, bulk a little more, then cut down for my show?


I'd reccomend a short cycle now and then a cleaner bulk that way you don't have to kill yourself. Trust me you lose too much muscle dieting when your bodyfat gets that high.

Chuckles

[Jem777]

I'd reccomend a short cycle now and then a cleaner bulk that way you don't have to kill yourself. Trust me you lose too much muscle dieting when your bodyfat gets that high.

Chuckles

Thanks man, I'm going to start on a short 10 week cycle next week then do a 6 month bulk. Hope the results would be sweeeet.

[gettnthere]

haha thats what i hate, im trying to get down under 10% when i have a couple friends that are 4-6% all the time. The one kid is, 5' 11.5" 177lbs and 5.1% bodyfat when his doctor took it.i mean hes all cut up, even though im way stronger and look alot bigger, but he eats w.e. he wants n dont gain ****, i know metabolism but hah its crazy. He also runs 5-6 miles a day so hah

[mike.tv]

8% with 172 lean mass would be around 185. If I got down that low would I look like a marathon runner when I have my clothes on?? Is that why lean guys always where tank tops etc? because thye look like underwear models in street clothes?? lol

Since no one answered your question directly, it depends on how tall you are. Around 5'9 to 5'11, 185 @ 8% looks BIG. No way like a marathon runner. You just don't see guys with those sort of stats around the gym much. That would be QUITE an accomplishment. (That's about 16" ripped arms, which looks damn good.)

[John Prophet]

Im 5'8", lol

the arm right now is around 17" lol.....I have lost about 20lbs over the last 3 months or so (stopped soft drinks, cleaned up diet some)

so my waist has come down several inches but my arms came down maybe .5"...but the waist is still huge at 222ish even though its down about 2-3" from its worst size


a bb'er dude in my gym (he is a trainer also....so we are friends but also "competitors" in a sense, lol). Believe it or not I taped his arm the other day, maybe it was pumped a little....18" at about 175 and maybe 5'6"..MAYBE 5'7"

he wears tank tops all the time....big delts/arms...great wide back, tiny waist

his problem is legs...so most of his 175 is upper body and trust me he loves the tank tops

its pretty tuff to compete against when people admire his arms etc....Im like 'yes, but I have better upper thighs" lol...it just doesnt have a ring to it, lol

here are his pics from the 2005 NPC nats http://www.graphicmuscle.com/index.cfm?go2=contests_competitor&CompetitorID=9383

great back, great midsection, v taper....I guess he was 155ish there (welterweight) but he is 175ish now

so I outweigh him by 50 lbs...people gawk at him...no one notices me, lol

its pretty tuff when the owner of the gym is standing there....and there are 3 of her trainers standing there...me, this guy, and another guy....and she says about the guy in the pic there "here's a real bodybuilder" and when he walks in "here comes my hero".....and then of the other trainer she says "I think he's the best trainer in here"

sort of leaves me out in the cold


but hey, being a fat slob never earned anyone respect even of they are a "powerlifter".

[southernstunna]

he's looking REALLY smooth in those comp pics.

but yeah, you always look bigger when you're cut, especially in photos. This happens all the time in the teen section. A 6 foot kid will come in there and post pics and he looks HUGE because he's got 8 percent bf. But then you look at his stats and he weighs 150.

That's why in the offseason i wear the big t-shirts and when i'm cut i wear as little clothing as possible. because you look small in clothing when you're bf is low. 12 percent is ideal IMO.

[John Prophet]

wow...REALLY smooth??? hmmm he's got some crazy midsection detail and delt striations happening

then again, he finished out of the top 15 for a reason....I figured it was mainly mass

pic below of the top few in his class


pretty sad that I am in the gym with a guy who didnt finish top 15 in the nats....yet evidently he is WAY ahead of me, lol...going by the stares he gets vs the ones I dont

[southernstunna]

looking at the pictures again he's not as smooth as i thought upon first view. i think he's just a poor poser who forgets to flex his legs. In his most muscular his upper body is striated and his legs have no striations at all. same thing with the front lat spread.

[Hulk7280]

wow...REALLY smooth??? hmmm he's got some crazy midsection detail and delt striations happening

then again, he finished out of the top 15 for a reason....I figured it was mainly mass

pic below of the top few in his class


pretty sad that I am in the gym with a guy who didnt finish top 15 in the nats....yet evidently he is WAY ahead of me, lol...going by the stares he gets vs the ones I dont
why do u workout? so you can get stares or to build muscle and get a good workout and stay healthy? it sounds like ur worried more about who looks at u then training.. maybe u should focus more on ur training and diet .. and then the looks will come when u dont even want them..

to be honest its kinda annoying.. i hate it when people ask me about what i eat .. and when is my next show and all that stuff when im in the MIDDLE of a workout.. i am at the gym to train its not a popularity contest.. if i could i would train in a gym by myself..

im sorry it was just erritating how your whining that this guy is getting more stares then u are even though ur bigger.. who cares?

[Hulk7280]

wow...REALLY smooth??? hmmm he's got some crazy midsection detail and delt striations happening

then again, he finished out of the top 15 for a reason....I figured it was mainly mass

pic below of the top few in his class


pretty sad that I am in the gym with a guy who didnt finish top 15 in the nats....yet evidently he is WAY ahead of me, lol...going by the stares he gets vs the ones I dont

BTW he is smooth he had no seperation in his legs at all and his glutes and hams were soft.. thats what u look for when bodybuild.. its not a chest and abs contest.. its BODYBUIDLING contest.. so everything needs to be in porportion and ripped.. his mass if fine could use some m ore legs.. but his conditioning is off.. ur stuck in this bigger is better mind frame.. not true.. better is better!

[John Prophet]

if u workout to NOT look good, let me know, lol

u dont workout to look good at home in your own mirror bro


the deeper aspect is that its about respect....admiration is a form of respect.


and I totally agree....I dont get the recognition at this moment because I dont deserve it due to my lax eating habits in the past


besides which, I am doing personal training in the gym now....I trained myself last year for powerlfiting, so my looks were of secondary importance. ONE year of powerlifting but I have been a "bodybuilder" of sorts since I was 15, lol


so, yes, I work out for health and to better myself....but right or wrong, annoying or not, after 24 years of lifting I expect to be one of the BEST at least in my local gym


and I AM doing something about it bro....my diet is WAY cleaner than its been in..well, probably ever, lol....ive lost about 3" off the waist since maybe october

so forgive me for communicating deep feelings online

[John Prophet]

the added factor is that he and I are both trainers in the same gym

the gym owner and others shower him with admiration...which is fine, he earned it.....I wonder where is the admiration or respect that i should have earned for having the balls to compete and win in 3 powerlifting meets over the last year?

Well, basically I didnt get any....so now the fire is there to beat people at THEIR game


hey, we all need soemthing to drive us

[John Prophet]

here is my boy in the red trunks in the front of the line

http://www.repetrope.com/men/products/gallerydetail.asp?ProductID=13089&ImageID=161784

the dude who won his pro card in his class is the short guy right behind him

obviously the shorter guy at the same bodyweight deal kicks in....so id say soem of it WAS mass related...look at the delts and arms.....the legs would be even more of a difference


though I totally understand it isnt all about mass...ESPECIALLY when all of them weight like 155 or whatever, lol.....if they are of similar height then the mass will also be similar.....then the conditioning etc comes way more into play

[Hulk7280]

i workout to look good on stage not the gym, i actually wear long pants and big t-shirts just so people cant see my body at the gym, i could care less what OTHER people think, maybe its because i have self confidence.. i dont need other people to ressure me i look good.. sounds like just have low self-esteem.. maybe u need therapy or something.LOL ... sorry just sick of hearing you whine about how someone else looks better then u.... thats it..

if u workout to NOT look good, let me know, lol

u dont workout to look good at home in your own mirror bro


the deeper aspect is that its about respect....admiration is a form of respect.


and I totally agree....I dont get the recognition at this moment because I dont deserve it due to my lax eating habits in the past


besides which, I am doing personal training in the gym now....I trained myself last year for powerlfiting, so my looks were of secondary importance. ONE year of powerlifting but I have been a "bodybuilder" of sorts since I was 15, lol


so, yes, I work out for health and to better myself....but right or wrong, annoying or not, after 24 years of lifting I expect to be one of the BEST at least in my local gym


and I AM doing something about it bro....my diet is WAY cleaner than its been in..well, probably ever, lol....ive lost about 3" off the waist since maybe october

so forgive me for communicating deep feelings online

[John Prophet]

whatever bro....dont click on the thread anymore then...simple solution

[Hulk7280]

whatever bro....dont click on the thread anymore then...simple solution

its just sad ti see a guy in his late 30's so jealous of someone else's looks ... get over urself

[John Prophet]

sad to see a guy in his 20s who has nothing to do but post-stalk a guy in his late 30s

especially since ive been where you are....youve never been where I am.....you have no clue what its like to be in your late 20's, let alone 30's....your best guess would still leave you clueless

in other words, you are talking out of your...well, you know

[Hulk7280]

sad to see a guy in his 20s who has nothing to do but post-stalk a guy in his late 30s

especially since ive been where you are....youve never been where I am.....you have no clue what its like to be in your late 20's, let alone 30's....your best guess would still leave you clueless

in other words, you are talking out of your...well, you know

LOL keep talking trash with ur 25% bodyfat body.. the sad thing is i have done more with my body in 20 years then you have in your 40, your pathetic dude.. 175 lbs of lean body mass? i competed at 192 at my last show and i was natural.. and im 5 8.. btw.. again you sir are pathetic.. so go in your corner and cry some more about how no one gives u attention!...LOL

[John Prophet]

ya know bro....out of pity I wont even neg hit you, lol....anyone with only 3 rep points should just be left alone, lol

but I do take it as a compliment that u cant let this thread go, lol

I actually feel like I am someone now....I have a stalker and a hater club forming....this is really a step up for me

[balger]

LOL keep talking trash with ur 25% bodyfat body.. the sad thing is i have done more with my body in 20 years then you have in your 40, your pathetic dude.. 175 lbs of lean body mass? i competed at 192 at my last show and i was natural.. and im 5 8.. btw.. again you sir are pathetic.. so go in your corner and cry some more about how no one gives u attention!...LOL



Not to play the devil's advocate... but your last thread WAS in the steroid forum: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=965740. Must be roid rage.

[kimsquit]

John I've read through this thread and I think you're simultanously identifying and missing the "bigger picture" with regard to what's going on at your gym.

On the one hand, you say you know that bodybuilding is all about appearances, and you cite examples of that. You don't seem to have any problem with it and seem to think it's reasonable.

But then on the other hand you say that it isn't fair that he's accorded some higher credibility or status because of his appearance.

So if it's all about appearances, then why grumble if people reward him with attention for achieving that?

You seem to have committed yourself to stepping up to the plate and losing bodyfat - and that's very commendable - however if you set an external goal (to look better than some other guy) rather than an internal goal (to look as good as you can) then I suspect you'll never be satisfied. IMO, the competitive bodybuilders who last are the ones who compete against themselves and not worry about what anyone else is doing.

~ Chris

[Hulk7280]

ya know bro....out of pity I wont even neg hit you, lol....anyone with only 3 rep points should just be left alone, lol

but I do take it as a compliment that u cant let this thread go, lol

I actually feel like I am someone now....I have a stalker and a hater club forming....this is really a step up for me

dude you have over 5000 posts! no wonder ur body looks like crap go to the gym..LOL

[Hulk7280]

ya know bro....out of pity I wont even neg hit you, lol....anyone with only 3 rep points should just be left alone, lol

but I do take it as a compliment that u cant let this thread go, lol

I actually feel like I am someone now....I have a stalker and a hater club forming....this is really a step up for me

dude you have over 5000 posts! no wonder ur body looks like crap, you have no time to workout with all your posts on bodybuilding forums.. althougth your right this is childish.. im done with this thread and you.. i let my body do the talking and you can see by my pics and judge for youself.. im OUT

[Hulk7280]

John I've read through this thread and I think you're simultanously identifying and missing the "bigger picture" with regard to what's going on at your gym.

On the one hand, you say you know that bodybuilding is all about appearances, and you cite examples of that. You don't seem to have any problem with it and seem to think it's reasonable.

But then on the other hand you say that it isn't fair that he's accorded some higher credibility or status because of his appearance.

So if it's all about appearances, then why grumble if people reward him with attention for achieving that?

You seem to have committed yourself to stepping up to the plate and losing bodyfat - and that's very commendable - however if you set an external goal (to look better than some other guy) rather than an internal goal (to look as good as you can) then I suspect you'll never be satisfied. IMO, the competitive bodybuilders who last are the ones who compete against themselves and not worry about what anyone else is doing.

~ Chris


great quote, that is what i have been trying to get through to him.. its not about anybody else.. its about yourself.. you workout for yourself.. not for people to look up to you and respect you... the respect will come .. but you have to earn it and at 218 lbs and 25% bodyfat you havent earned any respect bro.. anybody at the gym or walkign around has stats like that..

[John Prophet]

John I've read through this thread and I think you're simultanously identifying and missing the "bigger picture" with regard to what's going on at your gym.

On the one hand, you say you know that bodybuilding is all about appearances, and you cite examples of that. You don't seem to have any problem with it and seem to think it's reasonable.

But then on the other hand you say that it isn't fair that he's accorded some higher credibility or status because of his appearance.

So if it's all about appearances, then why grumble if people reward him with attention for achieving that?

You seem to have committed yourself to stepping up to the plate and losing bodyfat - and that's very commendable - however if you set an external goal (to look better than some other guy) rather than an internal goal (to look as good as you can) then I suspect you'll never be satisfied. IMO, the competitive bodybuilders who last are the ones who compete against themselves and not worry about what anyone else is doing.

~ Chris


yeah I agree with some of that...but I think we all have internal as well as external things that drive us

I mainly lament the fact that one guys powerlifting achivements arent given ANY respect while another guys near last place finish in bb'ing affords him "god" status.

and hey, I think I have given credit where its due...I applaud people who are disciplined in their eating etc....even though they dont applaud others who are just as disciplined in planning out strength gains etc

in any case, motivation is motivation, whether it be internal or external motivation....little snide comments people make etc, those comments are invaluable, lol

bottom line, I have a lot to prove to MYSELF

but again....if ANY bb'er says he isnt worried about someone looking better or whatever, he or she is a cold liar....end of story, lol

[John Prophet]

great quote, that is what i have been trying to get through to him.. its not about anybody else.. its about yourself.. you workout for yourself.. not for people to look up to you and respect you... the respect will come .. but you have to earn it and at 218 lbs and 25% bodyfat you havent earned any respect bro.. anybody at the gym or walkign around has stats like that..


dude, buzz off...go shoot your latest stack or whatever bro....im lifetime natural

holler back when you are 40 and your own t levels are destroyed....hope u like those needles, youll be on them for the rest of your life

seriously....you are here critiquing my bod...and you are juiced and my calves are better than yours???? I mean, my calves suck....but now I know I am not on the bottom of the barrel

[EMISGOD]

yeah I agree with some of that...but I think we all have internal as well as external things that drive us

I mainly lament the fact that one guys powerlifting achivements arent given ANY respect while another guys near last place finish in bb'ing affords him "god" status.

First of all, powerlifting achievements are numbers that one must be presented with to see while the results of bodybuilding are more immediately apparent and tangible. You were the first person that responded positively to me on these Forums and I will never forget you for that, JP, but like I was telling you before regarding personal training, there is an entire psychology here and I don't think you quite appreciate what it is.

90%+ of people are interested in fitness for the sole reason of looks and aesthetics. While a lot of people will appreciate powerlifting numbers, if they know of them, put a top-tier powerlifter next to a top-tier bodybuilder and ask people which one looks better. Bodybuilding is more of a celebrity-type effort in that image is EVERYTHING. People might be distantly interested in how much you can lift, but no one will be asking unless you have the physical goods to provoke the reaction in the first place.


and hey, I think I have given credit where its due...I applaud people who are disciplined in their eating etc....even though they dont applaud others who are just as disciplined in planning out strength gains etc

You're trying to compare apples and oranges here or maybe more precisely, confusing the actors with the cameramen and the set crew.


in any case, motivation is motivation, whether it be internal or external motivation....little snide comments people make etc, those comments are invaluable, lol

bottom line, I have a lot to prove to MYSELF

but again....if ANY bb'er says he isnt worried about someone looking better or whatever, he or she is a cold liar....end of story, lol

I think you also have to weigh the "worthiness" of those persons whose approval and validation you seem to be seeking. Is their judgment really so important to you or is your own judgment of yourself based on your perception of their imagined viewpoint? I'm not trying to attack, just asking...

Finally, to be frank, I'm not now and have never been concerned about someone looking "better" or more developed than me. If I see someone like that, it shows me a direction I could potentially take my body in, but I don't worry about it or lose sleep and most of the time, don't even notice. I'm not them, JP. I compare myself to myself and don't view myself as having other competition. Call me a liar if you want, but I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only "bodybuilder" that holds that viewpoint...

[njmuscle66]

in other words...a guy with 20% bodyfat cant really make statements such as "I am 14 weeks out from contest shape".

He cant realy even tell what he will look like or how much muscle he will have etc..especially on his chest, side delts etc because of all the fat


so what % are we talking about to where you have a good idea of where you are at to where you can plan x amount of weeks to a show etc?

lets say you lose fat etc and come down and stabilize at , ohhh, 13%. Are you then at a point where you can plan a 12-16 week prep period for a show?


I would have to say that anyone who has competed and plans to continue to compete or wants to compete and is as serious about his off season training should be able to maintain 12-13% bf fairly easily. So that is really IMO the higher end of what a competive bodybuilder should maintain

[B-BOY]

dude you have over 5000 posts! no wonder ur body looks like crap, you have no time to workout with all your posts on bodybuilding forums.. althougth your right this is childish.. im done with this thread and you.. i let my body do the talking and you can see by my pics and judge for youself.. im OUT i don't get it? are you saying we are suppose to be impressed with your pics??? i hope thats not what your saying...LOL you look like the average guy at my gym.. so what?

BUT!!!!! i will say that you made a nice transformation, i will give credit where credit is due, but you need to loose the ego bro!

[B-BOY]

I would have to say that anyone who has competed and plans to continue to compete or wants to compete and is as serious about his off season training should be able to maintain 12-13% bf fairly easily. So that is really IMO the higher end of what a competive bodybuilder should maintain good post!

[Quelly]

First of all, powerlifting achievements are numbers that one must be presented with to see while the results of bodybuilding are more immediately apparent and tangible. You were the first person that responded positively to me on these Forums and I will never forget you for that, JP, but like I was telling you before regarding personal training, there is an entire psychology here and I don't think you quite appreciate what it is.

90%+ of people are interested in fitness for the sole reason of looks and aesthetics. While a lot of people will appreciate powerlifting numbers, if they know of them, put a top-tier powerlifter next to a top-tier bodybuilder and ask people which one looks better. Bodybuilding is more of a celebrity-type effort in that image is EVERYTHING. People might be distantly interested in how much you can lift, but no one will be asking unless you have the physical goods to provoke the reaction in the first place.



You're trying to compare apples and oranges here or maybe more precisely, confusing the actors with the cameramen and the set crew.



I think you also have to weigh the "worthiness" of those persons whose approval and validation you seem to be seeking. Is their judgment really so important to you or is your own judgment of yourself based on your perception of their imagined viewpoint? I'm not trying to attack, just asking...

Finally, to be frank, I'm not now and have never been concerned about someone looking "better" or more developed than me. If I see someone like that, it shows me a direction I could potentially take my body in, but I don't worry about it or lose sleep and most of the time, don't even notice. I'm not them, JP. I compare myself to myself and don't view myself as having other competition. Call me a liar if you want, but I'd be willing to bet I'm not the only "bodybuilder" that holds that viewpoint...


excellent post...being a personal trainer, a powerlifter, and a bodybuilder myself getting ready for my first competition, and also being a man who struggles with internal vs external motivation I feel the need to add my 2 cents.

Bodybuilding is a sport which is very hard not to get wrapped up in negatively. You display your body in the near nude to a group of people, and in our body-image concious society, that strikes some deep nerves in most people.

In powerlifting, baseball, football etc...there is a goal of completing something, and you train your body to accomplish a goal...in bodybuilding you train your body for a specific look....and you are judged by your looks....which, also happens in our society; people are judged by their looks, handsome or ugly, hot or not etc....I THINK, that the best way to bodybuild and stay successful and enjoy the sport, is to be internally motivated, and I think the way to do this is to seperate the two body image judgements in your mind, separate bodybuilding body image from societal body image....in society, sure ugly people are judged as ugly, hot people are judged as hot...can't change it...it sucks in a lot of ways...but it is what it is....but in bodybuilding you have to view the image of you body like you would your ablility to make a touchdown, or your ability to hit a 90mph fast ball or how much you could squat in a meet....

JP, you seem to see societal and bodybuilding body images in the same light, which imho is a path leading to unhealthy attitudes towards competition and self esteem...the goal of a bodybuilder is to achieve a symmetrical, aesthetic body with a maximum of muscle mass, and a minimum of bodyfat, and present it through posing as best as possible....seeing it this way as opposed to who looks "good" and who looks "bad" is healthier and will lead to a more successful, longer and fun competitve experience...make it a sport not a beauty contest in your mind or it will never actually be fun or satisfying.

just my 2 cents

[thaibodybuilder]

excellent post...being a personal trainer, a powerlifter, and a bodybuilder myself getting ready for my first competition, and also being a man who struggles with internal vs external motivation I feel the need to add my 2 cents.

Bodybuilding is a sport which is very hard not to get wrapped up in negatively. You display your body in the near nude to a group of people, and in our body-image concious society, that strikes some deep nerves in most people.

In powerlifting, baseball, football etc...there is a goal of completing something, and you train your body to accomplish a goal...in bodybuilding you train your body for a specific look....and you are judged by your looks....which, also happens in our society; people are judged by their looks, handsome or ugly, hot or not etc....I THINK, that the best way to bodybuild and stay successful and enjoy the sport, is to be internally motivated, and I think the way to do this is to seperate the two body image judgements in your mind, separate bodybuilding body image from societal body image....in society, sure ugly people are judged as ugly, hot people are judged as hot...can't change it...it sucks in a lot of ways...but it is what it is....but in bodybuilding you have to view the image of you body like you would your ablility to make a touchdown, or your ability to hit a 90mph fast ball or how much you could squat in a meet....

JP, you seem to see societal and bodybuilding body images in the same light, which imho is a path leading to unhealthy attitudes towards competition and self esteem...the goal of a bodybuilder is to achieve a symmetrical, aesthetic body with a maximum of muscle mass, and a minimum of bodyfat, and present it through posing as best as possible....seeing it this way as opposed to who looks "good" and who looks "bad" is healthier and will lead to a more successful, longer and fun competitve experience...make it a sport not a beauty contest in your mind or it will never actually be fun or satisfying.

just my 2 cents

good post. actually the last bodybuilding show i attended i swear they must have chosen the uggliest girls to win the their divisions.

[Random Guy]

ya know bro....out of pity I wont even neg hit you


Don't worry. I will :D

B-Boy was being too nice to you Hulk. You're far from impressive to be shooting anyone down around here.

[Hulk7280]

Don't worry. I will :D

B-Boy was being too nice to you Hulk. You're far from impressive to be shooting anyone down around here.
ok .. well since im far from impressibe put ur best pics up and i will put pics of me up and let see how looks better? How bout i start. btw im competing at the mid florida classic on june 16 2007, since my physique sucks come compete with me and blow me out of the water.. :) have a nice day

[Hulk7280]

Don't worry. I will :D

B-Boy was being too nice to you Hulk. You're far from impressive to be shooting anyone down around here.

still waiting on your pics bro?? come on you have the nerve to talk all that trash?? now your mouth isnt talking as much??? maybe its because your foot is stuck in it?