Ready to Become a Muslim?

[NuggzTheNinja]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020


Islam will take over Europe without violent force within a few decades, said Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi in a speech aired on the Arab satellite network Al Jazeera.

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe," Gadhafi said. "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

If Turkey is added to the European Union, the Libyan leader said, Europe will have another 50 million Muslims.

Albania, a Muslim-majority country, and Bosnia, which is half Muslim, also appear to be on their way to EU membership.


"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

Excerpts of Gadhafi's speech, broadcast April 10, were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI. A video clip of the speech can by viewed online.

Gadhafi emphasized Muslims view Muhammad the prophet not only of the Arabs or Muslims but "of all people."

"He superseded all previous religions," Gadhafi said. "If Jesus were alive when Muhammad was sent, he would have followed him. All people must be Muslims."

He said Christians believe Muhammad is not their prophet because their holy texts "are forged and call for hatred."

"The so-called Old Testament and New Testament are neither Old Testament nor New Testament – because both testaments were superseded, and they are forged," he said. "They were written by hand hundreds of years after Jesus."

Gadhafi continued: "In the Bible there are things that are inappropriate for both Jesus and Moses. If we want to mend the state of humanity, and live in a global village, because of the globalization, we must search for the true Bible, because the Bible that exists today is a forgery. Today's Bible does not mention Muhammad, whereas our Lord's Bible mentions Muhammad repeatedly."

Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin reported in December 2003 Gadhafi provided al-Qaida with chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction before changing heart and agreeing to destroy his arms program.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


It's time that we kicked these people off of OUR continent before we suffer the same fate as Europe.

He gives us an option: assimilate or fight them. How many of you will go quietly?

[DanGK]

Never in my life will I convert to Islam.

[TranceNRG]

Never in my life will I convert to Islam.

Never say never
Only God knows what will happen in the future.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Never say never
Only God knows what will happen in the future.

Is it really so hard to accept the fact that not everyone wants to be a Muslim?

[coontang]

Sounds scary. As much as I dislike Christian fundies, I'd take them over Muslim fundies any day of the week.

[TranceNRG]

Is it really so hard to accept the fact that not everyone wants to be a Muslim?

No, it's not...
It's much harder to understand how the sons of the first prophet of God, Cain and Abel, did what they did.
:)

[new_reality]

Sounds scary. As much as I dislike Christian fundies, I'd take them over Muslim fundies any day of the week.

christian fundamentalists knock on my door every sunday and try to give me bibles. I wish Muslims were this kind.

all i have to say is, don't tread on me. i will bite

[TranceNRG]

Sounds scary. As much as I dislike Christian fundies, I'd take them over Muslim fundies any day of the week.

These muslims "fundies" on TV, do not represent the fundamentals of Islam.

[NuggzTheNinja]

No, it's not...
It's much harder to understand how the sons of the first prophet of God, Cain and Abel, did what they did.
:)

Are you likening the refusal to convert to Islam to killing one's own brother?

[Rupert IV]

"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

He gives us an option: assimilate or fight them. How many of you will go quietly?

I'd fight to the very end, no doubt about it... In a way it'd be good if it ended up in a war - Muslims against the world, because then at least once Islam was destroyed we could start thinking realistically about world peace.

[TranceNRG]

Are you likening the refusal to convert to Islam to killing one's own brother?

Some people won't be convinced with the truth, even someone like the son of prophet Adam, the first prophet and human on earth.
So, I do accept that some people won't accept Islam.

[NuggzTheNinja]

I'd fight to the very end, no doubt about it... In a way it'd be good if it ended up in a war - Muslims against the world, because then at least once Islam was destroyed we could start thinking realistically about world peace.

Unfortunately the PC idiots in the US, Russia, and Europe don't understand that the fight against these psychopaths needs to start NOW, not when they have the majority.

[Charlie Brown]

Uh only the people that want to become muslim will.

Which is like 1 in a lottt

[NuggzTheNinja]

Some people won't be convinced with the truth, even someone like the son of prophet Adam, the first prophet and human on earth.
So, I do accept that some people won't accept Islam.

And what will be done with them?

Reduced rights and standards of living? Stoning? Beheading?

[TranceNRG]

Uh only the people that want to become muslim will.

Which is like 1 in a lottt

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11532851&postcount=1

[blood vs. water]

"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

interesting

[NuggzTheNinja]

Uh only the people that want to become muslim will.

Which is like 1 in a lottt

Yeah, or they'll be executed. Or they'll be converted at gunpoint like those journalists kidnapped in Israel by Palestinian terrorists.

[TranceNRG]

And what will be done with them?
Reduced rights and standards of living? Stoning? Beheading?


Who? the people who do not accept Islam?
nothing, they will live their lives as non-muslims.

It's more important to worry about the next eternal life than this temporary life.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Who? the people who do not accept Islam?
nothing, they will live their lives as non-muslims.

It's more important to worry about the next eternal life than this temporary life.

Maybe for you, but not for me.

Even IF they aren't executed or converted at gunpoint, they would be subject to Islamic law, meaning they won't live their lives as non-Muslims, they'll live their lives under the subjugation of Islamic law.

[TranceNRG]

Maybe for you, but not for me.

Even IF they aren't executed or converted at gunpoint, they would be subject to Islamic law, meaning they won't live their lives as non-Muslims, they'll live their lives under the subjugation of Islamic law.

Under the Islamic government, Islamic laws govern the society.
Isn't that same with all governments and societies?
Every government has its specific set of laws, which the citizen must abide?

[coontang]

These muslims "fundies" on TV, do not represent the fundamentals of Islam.
Says you. You have your own opinion on the fundamentals of Islam, just like everyone else. Unfortunately, the majority of Muslims take a more extreme view than you, which is scary considering some of your posts on this forum.

[Rupert IV]

Every government has its specific set of laws, which the citizen must abide?

yes a government which is elected through democracy.

I have a feeling an Islamic government wouldn't be too concerned about democracy.

[NuggzTheNinja]

Under the Islamic government, Islamic laws govern the society.
Isn't that same with all governments and societies?
Every government has its specific set of laws, which the citizen must abide?

So then they won't live their lives as non-Muslims. They will be persecuted and subjugated, and forced to obey laws based entirely upon religious law.

Under American law, we have certain freedoms that would be destroyed if Muslims were to come to power.

Sorry, but any American with half a brain should realize that Islam is more imperialistic than any empire in the history of humanity. Containment or termination is the only option we have to preserve our freedoms.

[ElMariachi]

Never say never
Only God knows what will happen in the future.


I would rather die the most painful cruel and inhumane death as a Christian than live life as a Muslim, lets put it that way :)

[ElMariachi]

Who? the people who do not accept Islam?
nothing, they will live their lives as non-muslims.

It's more important to worry about the next eternal life than this temporary life.

I notice that you forgot about the parts regarding special taxes, inability to testify in court and dozens of other things that you conveniently avoided.

[frankenstein]

Under the Islamic government, Islamic laws govern the society.
Isn't that same with all governments and societies?
Every government has its specific set of laws, which the citizen must abide?


In Western societies, the laws are NOT set to strict religious law. One can argue that our laws are influenced by religion (i.e. the Bible), but I would argue that you don't need a fictitious book telling you not to kill or steal, etc. You don't have to have religion to be a moral and upstanding person.
If Western nations followed the Bible as closely in governmental law as some Muslim nations follow the Koran and other Muslim text, we'd be stoning disobedient children here in America.


Under Sharia law though, aren't there 3 options for non-muslims? 1. ask them to convert to Islam, if they refuse 2. give them 2nd class citizen status and tax the daylights out of them for their refusal to convert or 3. kill them.

Doesn't that about sum it up? There's a damn good reason that Westerners keep saying that Islam needs a reformation, an awakening like Christianity had hundreds of years ago.

I enjoyed hearing a Muslim on the radio the other day say that the Koran should not be taken literally. That just like the Bible there are allegorical and symbolic messages, not text that should be followed to the T.

[TranceNRG]

Says you. You have your own opinion on the fundamentals of Islam, just like everyone else. Unfortunately, the majority of Muslims take a more extreme view than you, which is scary considering some of your posts on this forum.

Don't worry...
Exteremists from neither side will end up successful, (God willing) :)

[Norman]

50 years is a long time. The predictions are made on the premise that there will be immigration of muslims in the future.
This will not happen.

[TranceNRG]

yes a government which is elected through democracy.

I have a feeling an Islamic government wouldn't be too concerned about democracy.

Why do you have that feeling?
What is it about Islam that makes you think, muslims (not extremists) don't care about democracy?

[TranceNRG]

So then they won't live their lives as non-Muslims. They will be persecuted and subjugated, and forced to obey laws based entirely upon religious law.

Under American law, we have certain freedoms that would be destroyed if Muslims were to come to power.

Sorry, but any American with half a brain should realize that Islam is more imperialistic than any empire in the history of humanity. Containment or termination is the only option we have to preserve our freedoms.

You're missing the points.
When you're in Rome you do as Romans do.

For example, in Germany theere are no speed limits in the highways, does that mean that same freedom must be provided by the American government here as well?

Every society and government has its public laws. Everyone has the right to do as they wish in private.

[frankenstein]

yes a government which is elected through democracy.

I have a feeling an Islamic government wouldn't be too concerned about democracy.

Correct. And Islamic govt is automatically a tyrranical govt. Unfortunately, so many Muslims are frustrated with their govts that oppress them, which is the only way an Islamic govt can run. Add to that the fact that so many Muslims feel humiliated that their countries which were more advanced than Europe hundreds of years ago, have been superseded by the whole rest of the world (except for Much of Africa). Then combine those extreme frustrations with their religious leaders who blame other nations rather than accepting self-blame for their ****ty living conditions and you have crazy mofos blowing themselves up.

[TranceNRG]

I would rather die the most painful cruel and inhumane death as a Christian than live life as a Muslim, lets put it that way :)

and you are entitled to your opinion.

You don't need to convince me and others, how much you hate Islam, since it doesn't change anything for muslims.

As a christians you should be more concerned with what God would think about your deeds and intentions. :)

[guym]

You're missing the points.
When you're in Rome you do as Romans do.

...Everyone has the right to do as they wish in private.

Rome? Someone should tell the muslims who live here + and want to turn it into a bigger Saudi-Arabia. A minority? Yes. A TINY minority? No way...

Private? Ummm...no. You can't sleep with a 9 year old "in private."


Oh wait....uh...nevermind.... ;) Too easy, that one!

[ElMariachi]

and you are entitled to your opinion.

You don't need to convince me and others, how much you hate Islam, since it doesn't change anything for muslims.

As a christians you should be more concerned with what God would think about your deeds and intentions. :)


I don't hate Islam, that has nothing to do with it. If you think that, you really are dizzy.


I love God, and his son, Jesus, my Lord and Savior and nothing, nothing will ever change that. Muslims are entitled to their beliefs, but I would never accept their beliefs as my own.

[frankenstein]

You're missing the points.
When you're in Rome you do as Romans do.

For example, in Germany theere are no speed limits in the highways, does that mean that same freedom must be provided by the American government here as well?

Every society and government has its public laws. Everyone has the right to do as they wish in private.


A country truly ruled by Islamic law would not allow for many of the freedoms that are automatic in a democratic society. Not everyone has the right to do as they wish in private in either a Western or Islamic society actually. A damn shame in my opinion. I think as long as you are not harming anyone else or potentially putting someone in harm, do whatever you want.

The difference is that western nations allow for alot more personal freedom (some of which we are losing thanks to the security worrywarts who feel it's necessary to put security above freedom thanks to the actions of extremist Muslims around the world that kill without reason) than an Islamic govt allows. Islamic law (sharia) is the definition of oppression, tyranny, no innate personal freedoms.

[LatsMakeTheMan]

I don't think people in the US are religious enough to be "taken over" by Islam.

If anything, Agnosticism is what's "taking over."

[TranceNRG]

I notice that you forgot about the parts regarding special taxes, inability to testify in court and dozens of other things that you conveniently avoided.

http://www.dawanet.com/nonmuslim/intro/war/war6.html

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9801&CATE=3600


you can mention all those points and we'll go through them one by one.

[TranceNRG]

In Western societies, the laws are NOT set to strict religious law. One can argue that our laws are influenced by religion (i.e. the Bible), but I would argue that you don't need a fictitious book telling you not to kill or steal, etc. You don't have to have religion to be a moral and upstanding person.

This is the part we disagree.
you DO need religion to be moral. :)


If Western nations followed the Bible as closely in governmental law as some Muslim nations follow the Koran and other Muslim text, we'd be stoning disobedient children here in America.

So, Christians willingly chose not to follow their holy book, right?



Under Sharia law though, aren't there 3 options for non-muslims? 1. ask them to convert to Islam, if they refuse 2. give them 2nd class citizen status and tax the daylights out of them for their refusal to convert or 3. kill them.


I think your view about Jizya is formed from reading biased websites.



Doesn't that about sum it up? There's a damn good reason that Westerners keep saying that Islam needs a reformation, an awakening like Christianity had hundreds of years ago.

God's laws do not change.



I enjoyed hearing a Muslim on the radio the other day say that the Koran should not be taken literally. That just like the Bible there are allegorical and symbolic messages, not text that should be followed to the T.

and there are muslims, who eat pork, drink alcohol and fornicate.





Laws are laws, regardless of what they are.
Islamic laws are based on God's commandments.

Secular laws are man-made.

Either way, laws must be obeyed, right?

[ElMariachi]

http://www.dawanet.com/nonmuslim/intro/war/war6.html

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=9801&CATE=3600


you can mention all those points and we'll go through them one by one.


Great, now try using non-biased, non-b%l%**** sources.

I already made an entire thread on this, and no Muslim actually countered it, other than the fact that Christians and Jews should feel "priviliged" to pay a special tax. I'm not going into this crap all over again.

[TranceNRG]

Correct. And Islamic govt is automatically a tyrranical govt. Unfortunately, so many Muslims are frustrated with their govts that oppress them, which is the only way an Islamic govt can run. Add to that the fact that so many Muslims feel humiliated that their countries which were more advanced than Europe hundreds of years ago, have been superseded by the whole rest of the world (except for Much of Africa). Then combine those extreme frustrations with their religious leaders who blame other nations rather than accepting self-blame for their ****ty living conditions and you have crazy mofos blowing themselves up.

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32terrorism_middleeast_soc08.php

Islamic Peace throughout history

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32terrorism_pacifism_soc10.php

The pacifism of Islam

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32terrorism_people_soc09.php

People of the Book and the Muslims

[LethalOnGuitarZ]

I'd fight to the very end, no doubt about it... In a way it'd be good if it ended up in a war - Muslims against the world, because then at least once Islam was destroyed we could start thinking realistically about world peace.
Sure, when every religion fights eachother to the death and ONE religion is left, maybe then we can think about world peace. But since that's not going to happen you can keep your pipe dreams.

[TranceNRG]

Why an Authoritarian rule is Against Islam?

http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32why_an_authoritarian_soc12.php

[frankenstein]

I don't think people in the US are religious enough to be "taken over" by Islam.

If anything, Agnosticism is what's "taking over."


Nor are we willing to surrender that many rights. For Islam to take over, we'd have to scrap the whole Constitution. That would take alot more than immigration. I'd venture a guess that agnosticism will slowly creep into Muslim nations or at the very least, Muslims living in Western nations. Muslims want to have some of the success that Western nations have had. That is virtually impossible under govts that enforce Islamic law. Prosperity doesn't mix well with religiously run governments.

If the US and China become less dependent on oil over the next 2 decades (energy independence is the most important issue in the world), the Middle East will collapse. Only then will it have it's necessary revolutions to improve their lives.

[TranceNRG]

I don't hate Islam, that has nothing to do with it. If you think that, you really are dizzy.


I love God, and his son, Jesus, my Lord and Savior and nothing, nothing will ever change that. Muslims are entitled to their beliefs, but I would never accept their beliefs as my own.

Never say never

I would assume that as a christian you would agree with me when I say God has control over all things, and only God knows the future. Am I correct? :)

[NuggzTheNinja]

You're missing the points.
When you're in Rome you do as Romans do.

For example, in Germany theere are no speed limits in the highways, does that mean that same freedom must be provided by the American government here as well?

Every society and government has its public laws. Everyone has the right to do as they wish in private.

OK, but you're missing the main point:

This is America. We don't have an Islamic government. We don't want an Islamic government.

Muslims seek to breed Americans out of existence and institute their own laws. That's bull****.

If Americans have any sense of self-preservation, our only hope for survival is to keep Muslims out of this country and prevent them from becoming the majority, which would then institute Shariah law. ;)

[Charlie Brown]

Never say never

I would assume that as a christian you would agree with me when I say God has control over all things, and only God knows the future. Am I correct? :)

No

[NuggzTheNinja]

I don't think people in the US are religious enough to be "taken over" by Islam.

If anything, Agnosticism is what's "taking over."

Entirely unnecessary.

They're immigrating at ridiculous rates, and breed like bacteria. 5+ children per household, it's only a matter of time.

Thus the vulnerability of democratic nations: they don't have to win any converts, they just have to f-ck faster and churn out more children. All you need is 51%.

[TranceNRG]

A country truly ruled by Islamic law would not allow for many of the freedoms that are automatic in a democratic society. Not everyone has the right to do as they wish in private in either a Western or Islamic society actually. A damn shame in my opinion. I think as long as you are not harming anyone else or potentially putting someone in harm, do whatever you want.

That is the problem.
You have formed an opinion and you think it's right.

Immanuel Kant would disagree with you.
Plato and Aristotle would disagree with you.
John Stuart Mill would disagree with you.



The difference is that western nations allow for alot more personal freedom (some of which we are losing thanks to the security worrywarts who feel it's necessary to put security above freedom thanks to the actions of extremist Muslims around the world that kill without reason) than an Islamic govt allows. Islamic law (sharia) is the definition of oppression, tyranny, no innate personal freedoms.

how do you define freedom?
Should there be no discipline?

I assume you either take a very libeterian view or a hedonist view.
Both of them have been opposed by secular philosophers.

So, before worrying about what Islam might do to your freedom, maybe it's best if you read why other famous secular philosophers might disagree with your notion of freedom.

[frankenstein]

Either way, laws must be obeyed, right?

Nope. There are laws that are ridiculous and need not be obeyed. One of the first ones involves personal drug use. The only drugs I ever take are caffeine and alcohol (~3 drinks/wk). I have no personal problems if someone wants to take a drug and they don't put anyone else at harm in the process. If someone takes drugs and drives a car, there's a problem. I've got no problem with someone smoking weed, sitting home and watching skooby doo while eating Cheetos. It's not for me, but it need not be illegal.

There are too many laws in the first place. We could do away with half of the laws on the books in the US and almost nothing would change.

[TranceNRG]

I don't think people in the US are religious enough to be "taken over" by Islam.

If anything, Agnosticism is what's "taking over."

There are two types of agnostics.
One group of agnostics, have labelled themselves so, in order to dodge from laws and rules that are present in various religions, simply because they have chosen their own carnal desires and egos as their controllers.

The second group of agnostics, are agnostics, because they are genuinely seeking for the truth and so far they have not found it. However, since this group is genuinely seeking for the truth, God's grace will help them find it. :)

[TranceNRG]

Great, now try using non-biased, non-b%l%**** sources.

I already made an entire thread on this, and no Muslim actually countered it, other than the fact that Christians and Jews should feel "priviliged" to pay a special tax. I'm not going into this crap all over again.

Where's that thread?
You can state your own argument and we'll go through it one by one.

[TranceNRG]

No

??

[ElMariachi]

Never say never

I would assume that as a christian you would agree with me when I say God has control over all things, and only God knows the future. Am I correct? :)


No, I can say NEVER. You refuse to accept Jesus as your Savior, therefore I can never agree with your beliefs. In this case, yes, I can say never, unless the beliefs of Islam radically change, then they will never be compatible with my own.

[Fett]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020


Islam will take over Europe without violent force within a few decades, said Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi in a speech aired on the Arab satellite network Al Jazeera.

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe," Gadhafi said. "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

If Turkey is added to the European Union, the Libyan leader said, Europe will have another 50 million Muslims.

Albania, a Muslim-majority country, and Bosnia, which is half Muslim, also appear to be on their way to EU membership.


"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

Excerpts of Gadhafi's speech, broadcast April 10, were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI. A video clip of the speech can by viewed online.

Gadhafi emphasized Muslims view Muhammad the prophet not only of the Arabs or Muslims but "of all people."

"He superseded all previous religions," Gadhafi said. "If Jesus were alive when Muhammad was sent, he would have followed him. All people must be Muslims."

He said Christians believe Muhammad is not their prophet because their holy texts "are forged and call for hatred."

"The so-called Old Testament and New Testament are neither Old Testament nor New Testament – because both testaments were superseded, and they are forged," he said. "They were written by hand hundreds of years after Jesus."

Gadhafi continued: "In the Bible there are things that are inappropriate for both Jesus and Moses. If we want to mend the state of humanity, and live in a global village, because of the globalization, we must search for the true Bible, because the Bible that exists today is a forgery. Today's Bible does not mention Muhammad, whereas our Lord's Bible mentions Muhammad repeatedly."

Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin reported in December 2003 Gadhafi provided al-Qaida with chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction before changing heart and agreeing to destroy his arms program.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


It's time that we kicked these people off of OUR continent before we suffer the same fate as Europe.

He gives us an option: assimilate or fight them. How many of you will go quietly?

**** this ****. I've grown weary of the PC bull**** about how Islam is a peaceful religion. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I'm done giving a **** - kill em' all.

If there is another terrorist attack in America (which is inevitable, only a matter of time), we need to round up all of those Haji mother****ers and send em' back to the ****hole they came from.

[frankenstein]

That is the problem.
You have formed an opinion and you think it's right.

Immanuel Kant would disagree with you.
Plato and Aristotle would disagree with you.
John Stuart Mill would disagree with you.




how do you define freedom?
Should there be no discipline?

I assume you either take a very libeterian view or a hedonist view.
Both of them have been opposed by secular philosophers.

I'll admit this- I do take a very libertarian view on alot of things. And I do know that there are alot of retards out there who ruin things for the rest of us, and hence why there is a necessity for so many laws.

Of course there should be discipline. I am just very against religion infecting govt.

[TranceNRG]

No, I can say NEVER. You refuse to accept Jesus as your Savior, therefore I can never agree with your beliefs. In this case, yes, I can say never, unless the beliefs of Islam radically change, then they will never be compatible with my own.

:)
What if certain events happen in the future that may change your views?
Are you saying, those events will never happen?
Are you saying, God can never change your mind?

[ElMariachi]

:)
What if certain events happen in the future that may change your views?
Are you saying, those events will never happen?
Are you saying, God can never change your mind?


Only if my God was Satan :)


Perhaps you will become enlightened and find the true love of God and his Son, Jesus Christ??? One can only hope.

[TranceNRG]

Nope. There are laws that are ridiculous and need not be obeyed. One of the first ones involves personal drug use. The only drugs I ever take are caffeine and alcohol (~3 drinks/wk). I have no personal problems if someone wants to take a drug and they don't put anyone else at harm in the process. If someone takes drugs and drives a car, there's a problem. I've got no problem with someone smoking weed, sitting home and watching skooby doo while eating Cheetos. It's not for me, but it need not be illegal.

There are too many laws in the first place. We could do away with half of the laws on the books in the US and almost nothing would change.

That is your opinion and I'm sure the law makers of each secular society would disagree with you, when they were legislating the laws.

[TranceNRG]

Only if my God was Satan :)


Perhaps you will become enlightened and find the true love of God and his Son, Jesus Christ??? One can only hope.

Ok...
I'll stop this point by saying, God is the all-knowing and all-wise, He is omnipotent and He has control over all things. :)

peace

[_AdaM_]

A lot of non-muslims aren't ready to take the challenge of doing what God told them. Also, A lot of people take Islam as they see it on TV news. The don't look deeper, they just sit back and be spoon fed.
If Islam were labelled 'The most, if not THE peaceful faith of all', lot of people like ELMariachi, NuggzTheNinja, who say "Islam is that, Islam is cruel" would have different opinions today.

You guys know NOTHING about the Islam faith, all you say is what they said.

"Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe." Qu'ran c1:v6

"And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know." Qu'ran c1:v13

Do you say those who converted to Islam a fools? or maybe those who converted from Christianity into Islam, are they fools? didn't they belived what you believed in. I think those who dig deeper into Islam, find the real truth.

[ElMariachi]

A lot of non-muslims aren't ready to take the challenge of doing what God told them. Also, A lot of people take Islam as they see it on TV news. The don't look deeper, they just sit back and be spoon fed.
If Islam were labelled 'The most, if not THE peaceful faith of all', lot of people like ELMariachi, NuggzTheNinja, who say "Islam is that, Islam is cruel" would have different opinions today.

You guys know NOTHING about the Islam faith, all you say is what they said.

"Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe." Qu'ran c1:v6

"And when it is said to them: Believe as the people believe they say: Shall we believe as the fools believe? Now surely they themselves are the fools, but they do not know." Qu'ran c1:v13

Do you say those who converted to Islam a fools? or maybe those who converted from Christianity into Islam, are they fools? didn't they belived what you believed in. I think those who dig deeper into Islam, find the real truth.



What about those who convert from Islam to Christianity?

Oh YEAH...whoops, they are beheaded or imprisoned.


My bad.

[TranceNRG]

I am just very against religion infecting govt.

Why?

[ElMariachi]

Why?


Because they corrupt each other. Because there will ALWAYS be people who do not wish to follow a religion. They do not wish to be led around by religious law, or they follow a different religious law.


You know damn well that you would be upset if tommorrow America declared that it would be run strictly by the Bible and nothing but, and if Muslims wish to reside here, they'd better get in line.

[_AdaM_]

**** this ****. I've grown weary of the PC bull**** about how Islam is a peaceful religion. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I'm done giving a **** - kill em' all.

If there is another terrorist attack in America (which is inevitable, only a matter of time), we need to round up all of those Haji mother****ers and send em' back to the ****hole they came from.

This made me wonder, if all Muslims were sent back to where they copme from, then isn't your country even more exposed to danger, since the attackers 'this case, Muslims' knows no Muslim people live there? if you know what I mean?

Also, you do know there are US nationality that are Muslims, where do you send them? US is their home right?

[TranceNRG]

Because they corrupt each other. Because there will ALWAYS be people who do not wish to follow a religion. They do not wish to be led around by religious law, or they follow a different religious law.


You know damn well that you would be upset if tommorrow America declared that it would be run strictly by the Bible and nothing but, and if Muslims wish to reside here, they'd better get in line.

So, you're a christian and you support secularism?

Moreover, get in line for what?
Doesn't Bible have just laws to govern non-christians in a christian society?

I'm sure it does, because during the era when Islam was young and new, prophet Mohammad sent some of his followers to a just Christian leader in order to protect them from the pagan Arabs. :)

[_AdaM_]

What about those who convert from Islam to Christianity?

Oh YEAH...whoops, they are beheaded or imprisoned.


My bad.

But again, if Muslim converts to Christianity, they wouldn't do this in a Islamic state, where Shariah is practiced. Plus, those who converts from Islam, usually know little about their faith

[TranceNRG]

ElMariachi...
What do you think about this article?

http://www.globalengage.org/issues/2005/02/secularism.htm

[ElMariachi]

So, you're a christian and you support secularism?

Moreover, get in line for what?
Doesn't Bible have just laws to govern non-christians in a christian society?

I'm sure it does, because during the era when Islam was young and new, prophet Mohammad sent some of his followers to a just Christian leader in order to protect them from the pagan Arabs. :)


Absolutely, but religion and government have never done well in history, because man is fallible. Man can be tempted and lied to, and lose sight of the word of God. When Jesus was on Earth, Satan tempted him with all the kingdoms of earth, all the earthly treasures and power! This is the realm of Satan, he tempts man with power, and once man falls for that temptation, and lets go of God, they are doomed.

It is too easy to succumb to the lust of power and money, that is why I am wary of any religious leaders who use political office as their pulpit, often they are the ones with the most skeletons in their closets.

[ElMariachi]

But again, if Muslim converts to Christianity, they wouldn't do this in a Islamic state, where Shariah is practiced. Plus, those who converts from Islam, usually know little about their faith


Here are some testimonies.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Testimonies/index.html

[TranceNRG]

Absolutely, but religion and government have never done well in history, because man is fallible. Man can be tempted and lied to, and lose sight of the word of God. When Jesus was on Earth, Satan tempted him with all the kingdoms of earth, all the earthly treasures and power! This is the realm of Satan, he tempts man with power, and once man falls for that temptation, and lets go of God, they are doomed.

It is too easy to succumb to the lust of power and money, that is why I am wary of any religious leaders who use political office as their pulpit, often they are the ones with the most skeletons in their closets.

I agree with you, as we can see that most muslim leaders are also corrupt and materialsts.

Nonetheless, being wary is different than thinking it must be wrong and it shouldn't happen, right?

[ElMariachi]

ElMariachi...
What do you think about this article?

http://www.globalengage.org/issues/2005/02/secularism.htm

Are you asking me if I am suprised by this, the answer is no. It has always been known that things would be like. Man would turn from God and be entranced by earthly delights and temptation, controlled by sin and lust. This is not shocking, it was always known that the world would be like this, that many would fall to temptation, and as a result, laugh and sneer at the followers of God.


These people will exist, whether or not the world is controlled by religious law, but these people cannot be forced to obey religious law, they've had the opportunity to decide for themselves and the only way to keep them in line is through violence, and that by all intentions is the worst thing that can be done.


One can only hope that they are inspired by God, but it is not right to force religion upon them. The chance of religion corrupting them is minimal, but the chance of them corrupting previously good and well-meaning people is significant.

Religion should not be involved in government, other than the extent of protecting religious beliefs and freedom for all. A free society is best, as others will always have the option of making up their own mind. A controlled society, such as the one you are proposing, run by Islam, only encourages tyranny and retribution against nonfollowers.

Where in history has man not been corrupted? Temptation, the lure of evil and power is strong, and you cannot live life straddling one foot in this world, and one foot in the world of God, that only puts your at risk of being one of the fallen. Religion should be a separate support system, to give believers the ability to escape from the immorality and disbelief to the regular world, a system where believers can yield strength and increase their faith together.

[guest89]

Ok...
I'll stop this point by saying, God is the all-knowing and all-wise, He is omnipotent and He has control over all things. :)

peace

Funny how you always quote "peace" but so many others of your religion are saying "Death to infidels". And go bomb a public place and kill hundreds of innocent people.

I never had a problem with muslims until I realized how many innocent people they kill just for ****s and giggles. I can say I will NEVER be part of a religion/organization that supports killing people just because they don't have the same beliefs as them. Sick bastards...

[_AdaM_]

Here are some testimonies.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Testimonies/index.html

www.answering-islam.org
www.thequran.com
www.allahassurance.com
www.aboutislam.com
and many more are so anti-muslim site, trust me and I don't say that because it has muslims converting from Islam

[ElMariachi]

www.answering-islam.org
www.thequran.com
www.allahassurance.com
www.aboutislam.com
and many more are so anti-muslim site, trust me and I don't say that because it has muslims converting from Islam


Yes, because a pro-Islam site will always advocate Muslims converting to Christianity..........................

[_AdaM_]

Funny how you always quote "peace" but so many others of your religion are saying "Death to infidels". And go bomb a public place and kill hundreds of innocent people.

I never had a problem with muslims until I realized how many innocent people they kill just for ****s and giggles. I can say I will NEVER be part of a religion/organization that supports killing people just because they don't have the same beliefs as them. Sick bastards...

Religion, did you just say our religion says so.... and you find it funny by him saying 'peace'

[_AdaM_]

Yes, because a pro-Islam site will always advocate Muslims converting to Christianity..........................

But how can you link me to a site that has one intentions, and thats giving Islam a bad reputation or mis-leading people like you?

[TranceNRG]

Are you asking me if I am suprised by this, the answer is no. It has always been known that things would be like. Man would turn from God and be entranced by earthly delights and temptation, controlled by sin and lust. This is not shocking, it was always known that the world would be like this, that many would fall to temptation, and as a result, laugh and sneer at the followers of God.


These people will exist, whether or not the world is controlled by religious law, but these people cannot be forced to obey religious law, they've had the opportunity to decide for themselves and the only way to keep them in line is through violence, and that by all intentions is the worst thing that can be done.


One can only hope that they are inspired by God, but it is not right to force religion upon them. The chance of religion corrupting them is minimal, but the chance of them corrupting previously good and well-meaning people is significant.


I agree upto here. :)


Religion should not be involved in government, other than the extent of protecting religious beliefs and freedom for all. A free society is best, as others will always have the option of making up their own mind. A controlled society, such as the one you are proposing, run by Islam, only encourages tyranny and retribution against nonfollowers.

People would make their own choices even under the Islamic society.
People do not have to convert to Islam.

Think of it this way...
In states, even if you choose to smoke weed in public, you will be arrested, why? Because it goes against the laws.
Does smoking weed harm anyone but oneself?
Doesn't the person have the right to choose whether he wants to smoke weed in the street or not?

Is the government forcing unacceptable laws on this person?


Where in history has man not been corrupted? Temptation, the lure of evil and power is strong, and you cannot live life straddling one foot in this world, and one foot in the world of God, that only puts your at risk of being one of the fallen. Religion should be a separate support system, to give believers the ability to escape from the immorality and disbelief to the regular world, a system where believers can yield strength and increase their faith together.


I sense a misconception about Islamic society.
People do not have to conevrt to Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Age_of_Islam

[TranceNRG]

Funny how you always quote "peace" but so many others of your religion are saying "Death to infidels". And go bomb a public place and kill hundreds of innocent people.

I never had a problem with muslims until I realized how many innocent people they kill just for ****s and giggles. I can say I will NEVER be part of a religion/organization that supports killing people just because they don't have the same beliefs as them. Sick bastards...

"The servants of The Merciful are those who walk humbly on the earth, and who, when the foolish address them, reply, 'Peace'" (Qur'an 25:63)

Islam does not support killing of innocent people.

How to Avoid a War
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/32how_avoid_war.php

Everyone Must be in Unity Against Terror
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/70join_forces.php

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

[V_V]

It is terribly misfortunate that all of you Muslim haters derive your conclusions about the faith of Islam and it's people based on what terrorists do. I find it all too convenient that some people associate Islam with phrases like "any religion that kills for ****s and giggles...". This is a horrible view of what Islam really is. My guess is that none of you know what the majority of Muslims are really like. Actually, it's nearly impossible considering there are over 1 billion muslims worldwide.

While I realize that there are many of you that find it difficult to look at Islam with anything other than virulent animosity, one should consider that out of the billions of Muslims, an incredibly small fraction of those are "killing for ****s and giggles" as someone said.

There is a lot to be said about understanding a religion with confidence before making accusations about said religions intentions and/or their actions of said religions followers.

[TranceNRG]

Here are some testimonies.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Testimonies/index.html

You also need to realize that there are many anti-christianity websites out there as well, with similar contents.

[badbart]

Europe is great at ignoring / appeasing impending threats. History will repeat its self and the USA will be there to save them. I look at Europe’s problem and the immigration problem in the United State pales in comparison. Last time I check, no Mexicans have tried to blow up planes or trains.

[MantisShrimp]

It's not that we need a war on Islam, most muslims have done nothing to deserve such things. We just need to litigate against any creed that says it's ok to produce as many children as possible in a world that is already overpopulated, regardless of what that creed may be. I think sterilization programs need to come back in vogue, they really got stigmatized just because the nazis latched onto them. China actually has the right idea on this one. No, it is NOT ok to have 10 kids anymore, that is IRRESPONSIBLE, and in my world, it would be prevented.

[jmonty]

or they could just require a license to breed.

[MantisShrimp]

or they could just require a license to breed.

Everyone deserves to breed but we have to end creed-based demographic warfare.

[EOY]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020


Islam will take over Europe without violent force within a few decades, said Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi in a speech aired on the Arab satellite network Al Jazeera.

"We have 50 million Muslims in Europe," Gadhafi said. "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe – without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

If Turkey is added to the European Union, the Libyan leader said, Europe will have another 50 million Muslims.

Albania, a Muslim-majority country, and Bosnia, which is half Muslim, also appear to be on their way to EU membership.


"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

Excerpts of Gadhafi's speech, broadcast April 10, were translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, or MEMRI. A video clip of the speech can by viewed online.

Gadhafi emphasized Muslims view Muhammad the prophet not only of the Arabs or Muslims but "of all people."

"He superseded all previous religions," Gadhafi said. "If Jesus were alive when Muhammad was sent, he would have followed him. All people must be Muslims."

He said Christians believe Muhammad is not their prophet because their holy texts "are forged and call for hatred."

"The so-called Old Testament and New Testament are neither Old Testament nor New Testament – because both testaments were superseded, and they are forged," he said. "They were written by hand hundreds of years after Jesus."

Gadhafi continued: "In the Bible there are things that are inappropriate for both Jesus and Moses. If we want to mend the state of humanity, and live in a global village, because of the globalization, we must search for the true Bible, because the Bible that exists today is a forgery. Today's Bible does not mention Muhammad, whereas our Lord's Bible mentions Muhammad repeatedly."

Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin reported in December 2003 Gadhafi provided al-Qaida with chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction before changing heart and agreeing to destroy his arms program.


-----------------------------------------------------------------


It's time that we kicked these people off of OUR continent before we suffer the same fate as Europe.

He gives us an option: assimilate or fight them. How many of you will go quietly?

lol..I wouldn't take anything Gadhafi says seriously. This is probably one of the only Arab leaders who has crossed the line so far that it's ok to revolt against him from an Islamic perspective. This idiot has no authority whatseoever to speak on behalf of Muslims.

But some of the things he's saying are true, though. I believe that statistics say that in the year 2015-2016, Muslims will be a majority.

[MantisShrimp]

But some of the things he's saying are true, though. I believe that statistics say that in the year 2015-2016, Muslims will be a majority.

Not if sensible reproductive policy prevails. The cornucopian era of "everyone should be able to have as many kids as they want, at any economic level" needs to end now. I suspect Islam will pick up weapons and fight against any "homeland" which litigates against the taboo "secret weapon," dontcha think?

[EOY]

Not if sensible reproductive policy prevails. The cornucopian era of "everyone should be able to have as many kids as they want, at any economic level" needs to end now. I suspect Islam will pick up weapons and fight against any "homeland" which litigates against the taboo "secret weapon," dontcha think?

Even if Muslims have a minimum of two kids a household, there will still be a majority of Muslims because they are already too far ahead. The only difference is that it'll take a little longer ;). Besides, I don't think any reproductive policy will be effeciently implemented within a decade.

Don't forget about the conversion factor. A significant number of people are converting to Islam each year. It is by far the fastest growing religion in the US, and this isn't growth by birthrate.

[MantisShrimp]

Even if Muslims have a minimum of two kids a household, there will still be a majority of Muslims because they are already too far ahead. The only difference is that it'll take a little longer ;). Besides, I don't think any reproductive policy will be effeciently implemented within a decade.

Don't forget about the conversion factor. A significant number of people are converting to Islam each year. It is by far the fastest growing religion in the US, and this isn't growth by birthrate.

Hey, if people are happily and joyfully converting to Islam, more power to them. I just don't appreciate muslims deliberately trying to outbreed the people in their host countries, and I think they should be penalized for it until they stop it. Everyone knows what they are up to, they're not getting away with anything sekrit. It's just a matter of it not being politically correct to stop it because the people who most loudly trumpeted compulsory birth control happened to be the same ones who tried to exterminate an entire race. Kinda ironic, isn't it? The guys who tried to kill Islam's "enemy" are responsible for Islamic breeding going unchecked. What a strange world.

[EOY]

Hey, if people are happily and joyfully converting to Islam, more power to them. I just don't appreciate muslims deliberately trying to outbreed the people in their host countries, and I think they should be penalized for it until they stop it. Everyone knows what they are up to, they're not getting away with anything sekrit. It's just a matter of it not being politically correct to stop it because the people who most loudly trumpeted compulsory birth control happened to be the same ones who tried to exterminate an entire race. Kinda ironic, isn't it? The guys who tried to kill Islam's "enemy" are responsible for Islamic breeding going unchecked. What a strange world.

So you think that there is some sort of secret orginization that studies brithrates in the west and accordingly dictates Muslims living in the west to give birth to a certain number of kids in order to keep ahead? That's a nice little conspiracy theory :D.

[Vargas]

I just don't appreciate muslims deliberately trying to outbreed the people in their host countries, and I think they should be penalized for it until they stop it. Everyone knows what they are up to, they're not getting away with anything sekrit.

Muslims around the world are DELIBERATELY trying to outbreed the people in their host countries? So is this a consipiracy theory? Did all these Muslims gather world wide in some form and say "we're gonna outbreed our hosts and take over"

Wow...that has got to be the most far reaching consipiracy theory I have EVER heard in my entire life!

WATCH OUT EVERYONE...MUSLIMS ARE HAVING CHILDREN!!!
:rolleyes:

[ElMariachi]

It comes down to this. If Muslims are in this world, that article will come true. Doesnt matter if they are terrorists or not. They will take over the world. The ONLY way to stop that is to stop them from coming over here and kill whoever supports and doesnt condemn terrorists. Thats it. It is pretty simple ti figure out, its just that it involves some serious stuff going down. Make no mistake , that guy is not just messing around. And the muslims that are on this site backing up any of what guys like this are saying, you better not come around me, cause I will end your ****ing life, no joke.


In before the ban.

[EOY]

In before the ban.

I for one am not offended by his post. I got a good laugh out of his e-machoness, but not really offended.

[TranceNRG]

I for one am not offended by his post. I got a good laugh out of his e-machoness, but not really offended.

:D
oh oh
crazy e-thugs

[EOY]

:D
oh oh
crazy e-thugs

He will END yo LIFE foo!

[TranceNRG]

He will END yo LIFE foo!

:D
Let's pray for him, hopefully he'll wake up one day

[EOY]

:D
Let's pray for him, hopefully he'll wake up one day

lol..hell no. This guy threatened to kill me, so he's technically my enemy. We don't love our enemies, we're supposed to make an example out of them :D

E-FIGHT!! *pulls out e-knife, cocks e-beretta* *lets out a loud e-Allahu Akbar!*

[Shahin]

This board is gangsta.

[EOY]

This board is gangsta.

It's just another anti-Islamic wave. We have one of those every couple of months here.

[Shahin]

It's just another anti-Islamic wave. We have one of those every couple of months here.
Oh I know, I've been here forever I just learned not to get involved, I don't have as much patience as you guys.

[potatoe]

After reading all this, I had to go back to Page 1 to remember what this thread was originally about.


The fact is, it impossible for muslims to take over the world just in tersm of earthly reasons, bad for big buisnesses, gov officials, non muslims...won't happen.


Oh and the biggest one of all...read Revelation in the Bible.

[deeyala]

.


You know damn well that you would be upset if tommorrow America declared that it would be run strictly by the Bible and nothing but, and if Muslims wish to reside here, they'd better get in line.
i wouldn't

[wrists]

OK, but you're missing the main point:

This is America. We don't have an Islamic government. We don't want an Islamic government.

Muslims seek to breed Americans out of existence and institute their own laws. That's bull****.

If Americans have any sense of self-preservation, our only hope for survival is to keep Muslims out of this country and prevent them from becoming the majority, which would then institute Shariah law. ;)

You know very well your views are unrealistic and your only spreading them to increase fear and hate for Islam. Mazel tov

[ElMariachi]

i wouldn't

LIAR :)

[TranceNRG]

It's just another anti-Islamic wave. We have one of those every couple of months here.

yup, troll season :)
It's ok though, we know it's temporary
So, enjoy the show while it lasts

[facetoface]

yup, troll season :)
It's ok though, we know it's temporary
So, enjoy the show while it lasts
Actually I am a full time islam hater.

[ukgent2006]

No, it's not...
It's much harder to understand how the sons of the first prophet of God, Cain and Abel, did what they did.
:)


Yet you do understand your prophet having sex with a nine year old.


Islam is a funny thing.

[TranceNRG]

Actually I am a full time islam hater.

Cool...
Want a cookie?

[TranceNRG]

Yet you do understand your prophet having sex with a nine year old.

Islam is a funny thing.

Yes I do.
I have stated it on this board many times.

People don't have much to say back, other than emotional, irrational appeals to each other.

[ukgent2006]

Yes I do.
I have stated it on this board many times.

People don't have much to say back, other than emotional, irrational appeals to each other.


So why don't you have sex with nine year olds if it's so rightous? Are you sexually attracted to nine year olds? Be honest now....I'm asking quite seriously, since you seem to have no problem with it.


I'm not emotional. I think people are rather retarded if they are convinced by a book that having sex with kids is ok, but that's just my personal feelings.

[potatoe]

So why don't you have sex with nine year olds if it's so rightous? Are you sexually attracted to nine year olds? Be honest now....I'm asking quite seriously, since you seem to have no problem with it.


I'm not emotional. I think people are rather retarded if they are convinced by a book that having sex with kids is ok, but that's just my personal feelings.

Not to mention if a girl gets pregnant to early, it really screws them up, it ends up tearing up a bunch of stuff down there, I saw this one story on the news that some have like and endless trickle of pee almost, and they end up getting exiled from the family because it smells bad and they cannot fix it, and the body never heals.

But anyway, the emotional damage is huge too, I'm curious, if this is true, how do you justify it?

[TranceNRG]

So why don't you have sex with nine year olds if it's so rightous? Are you sexually attracted to nine year olds? Be honest now....I'm asking quite seriously, since you seem to have no problem with it.


I'm not emotional. I think people are rather retarded if they are convinced by a book that having sex with kids is ok, but that's just my personal feelings.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=9159955#post9159955

read through this.

[TranceNRG]

Not to mention if a girl gets pregnant to early, it really screws them up, it ends up tearing up a bunch of stuff down there, I saw this one story on the news that some have like and endless trickle of pee almost, and they end up getting exiled from the family because it smells bad and they cannot fix it, and the body never heals.

But anyway, the emotional damage is huge too, I'm curious, if this is true, how do you justify it?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=9159955#post9159955

Read through this.



And add anything rational (not emotional) that you feel hasn't been said before.

[ukgent2006]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=9159955#post9159955

read through this.


Please awnser my questions and don't deflect.

I want to know if you are honestly attracted to nine year olds, and if you would have sex with one...

I just looked at that post and you basically wrote a defense of pedophillia. That is truly sickening.

I truly would rather you guys blow me up now since I will never become a muslim, ever. I would honestly rather die than be brainwashed into accepting a pedophile false prophet. I mean that with all sincerity

[TheBlueDevil]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=9159955#post9159955

read through this.


I stopped reading when the thread starter used Wikipedia as a source... :rolleyes:

[TranceNRG]

Please awnser my questions and don't deflect.

I want to know if you are honestly attracted to nine year olds, and if you would have sex with one...

I just looked at that post and you basically wrote a defense of pedophillia. That is truly sickening.

I truly would rather you guys blow me up now since I will never become a muslim, ever. I would honestly rather die than be brainwashed into accepting a pedophile false prophet. I mean that with all sincerity

Your questions are answered in there.
You may have your uninformed opinions about Islam, won't change much for anyone but yourself, it also won't have any consequences for anyone but yourself.

[TranceNRG]

I stopped reading when the thread starter used Wikipedia as a source... :rolleyes:

Oh wow... I didn't think anyone would complain about wikipedia.
I chose that on purpose, since people would disagree with every other side and call it biased.

but then again, it's your choice

[MantisShrimp]

So you think that there is some sort of secret orginization that studies brithrates in the west and accordingly dictates Muslims living in the west to give birth to a certain number of kids in order to keep ahead? That's a nice little conspiracy theory :D.
Let's hold off on the straw man, I wouldn't say they go so far as to study the birth rates, or actively try to compete or outbreed, so much as I believe the concept of "open ended" fertility is cherished among Islamic fundamentalist families, the power of demographics is understood well by them, and indeed this trait can bee seen also among a lot of Christian fundamentalists too. Demography IS certainly viewed as a source of hope among disempowered populations. That hope is especially powerful among the Palestinians, who as you can see have alarmed the Israelis enough such that they are pulling out of Gaza and re-districting the country in order to keep it officially Jewish...

I don't think you're going to see a fundamentalist Europe though. I think you're going to see more muslims becoming successful, and embracing the western ways, and less of them tolerating fundamentalism. Breeding will slow down and they will assimilate as "seculars with a strong religious tradition" the same way Christians, Hindus, Jews, etc have in the west. People in poverty tend to embrace fundamentalism because it makes them feel empowered in a world where they are otherwise powerless. Once their heirs start to gain power, they tend to shed the crutch of fundamentalism.

When people from stage three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition) countries move to stage four countries, they don't tend to maintain stage three ethics forever.

[TheBlueDevil]

Oh wow... I didn't think anyone would complain about wikipedia.
I chose that on purpose, since people would disagree with every other side and call it biased.

but then again, it's your choice


Wikipedia NOT biased? Hell half of the articles can be edited by ANYONE and their citations are usually completely ****ed up.

[ukgent2006]

Your questions are answered in there.
You may have your uninformed opinions about Islam, won't change much for anyone but yourself, it also won't have any consequences for anyone but yourself.

You're right...it is about myself.


At the end of the day, I have to live with myself. I have to look at myself in the mirror. And if I ever took on the view that having sex with a nine year old is ok.....if I ever did think that.....I could never do that again, or regard myself as a decent person. And quite frankly, I don't see how any intelligent human being could do, either.

[ukgent2006]

Wikipedia NOT biased? Hell half of the articles can be edited by ANYONE and their citations are usually completely ****ed up.


I stopped reading when he tried to convince us sex with nine year olds is good and normal.

[TranceNRG]

You're right...it is about myself.


At the end of the day, I have to live with myself. I have to look at myself in the mirror. And if I ever took on the view that having sex with a nine year old is ok.....if I ever did think that.....I could never do that again, or regard myself as a decent person. And quite frankly, I don't see how any intelligent human being could do, either.

we'll discuss this further after you read the link, that is if you wanna discuss it further.

I've heard all these before.

peace

[MantisShrimp]

Oh wow... I didn't think anyone would complain about wikipedia.
I chose that on purpose, since people would disagree with every other side and call it biased.

but then again, it's your choice
Don't worry about that, even SK has complained about Wiki as a source, even though he is one of the people who contributes material as a part of their Islam series. I think a lot of people feel ambivalent about it, on the one hand some of the articles are very low quality and are vandalized, so you can tell they don't contain good information, but on the other, if you have 500 people with email alerts watching an article then I would argue firmly and confidently that the material they are collectively editing is of HIGHER quality than your traditional Britannica, which has always been of dubious sourcing.

[ukgent2006]

we'll discuss this further after you read the link, that is if you wanna discuss it further.

I've heard all these before.

peace


You don't understand....this isn't about disrespecting you or your religion. But it's physically impossible for me to justify it...you could be the best debator in the world, and I would find it sickening.

I mean sometimes I do get caught up in the anti muslim hype, and I am ashamed of that...but that part of the whole package just makes me physically ill. I could never ever condone it....just like the way I cant condone parts of the bible that says otherwise good gay or unbelievers dont go to heaven.

like my friend is a muslim, hes a brilliant guy, but the bible says unless he believes in Jesus as the saviour he will burn in hell. I dont and cant accept that. Its the same with this nine year old thing. there are just things I cannot bypass. Its not about debate, its about my instincts and my instincts scream that its wrong.

[TranceNRG]

You don't understand....this isn't about disrespecting you or your religion. But it's physically impossible for me to justify it...you could be the best debator in the world, and I would find it sickening.

I mean sometimes I do get caught up in the anti muslim hype, and I am ashamed of that...but that part of the whole package just makes me physically ill. I could never ever condone it....just like the way I cant condone parts of the bible that says otherwise good gay or unbelievers dont go to heaven.

like my friend is a muslim, hes a brilliant guy, but the bible says unless he believes in Jesus as the saviour he will burn in hell. I dont and cant accept that. Its the same with this nine year old thing. there are just things I cannot bypass. Its not about debate, its about my instincts and my instincts scream that its wrong.


see...
now you know what I meant when I said, people don't have anything rational to say and they only make emotional and irrational comments.


You cannot reject an idea because it doesn't "feel" right :)
well, you could... but that's an irrational approach

[MantisShrimp]

Wikipedia NOT biased? Hell half of the articles can be edited by ANYONE and their citations are usually completely ****ed up.
Tell me who writes Britannica. Give me his name.

"Well I dunno...but he's smart, and he has history on his side...and nice bindings!!"

Source is relative. Wikipedia is the best thing to ever happen to information. On any given article you can click on the page history and decide for yourself if enough people are editing it such that you feel confident that their natural conflict of interest will result in good content. NPOV tags are common, vandalism locks, cleanup requests, wikification requests, look a little deeper and you will see that it is not the hack job you think it is.

[ukgent2006]

see...
now you know what I meant when I said, people don't have anything rational to say and they only make emotional and irrational comments.


You cannot reject an idea because it doesn't "feel" right :)
well, you could... but that's an irrational approach



Does your body really tell you that having sex with a nine year old is right? Would you be proud of yourself afterwards? Honestly? Im not asking this in a confrontational way....but I know I could NEVER feel that way.

It's the same way I know raping someone is wrong. It doesn't matter what arguments you can wheel out.....it will never be right.

[TranceNRG]

Does your body really tell you that having sex with a nine year old is right? Would you be proud of yourself afterwards? Honestly? Im not asking this in a confrontational way....but I know I could NEVER feel that way.

It's the same way I know raping someone is wrong. It doesn't matter what arguments you can wheel out.....it will never be right.


The problem with it is this...

"It just doesn't feel right to respect the elderly"

[ukgent2006]

The problem with it is this...

"It just doesn't feel right to respect the elderly"




''It doesn't feel right to rape''.....so are you saying then, that you could honestly reject the idea of rape, or murder, or some other brutal act being wrong? I mean if it ''isn't right'' is just an excuse, couldn't you do any of those things with the excuse that ''well, whos to say whats right and wrong''? and if right and wrong are objective, does either exist? and if not, doesn't that make heaven, hell and all religions pretty much obsolete?

It's a slippery slope.

[TranceNRG]

''It doesn't feel right to rape''.....so are you saying then, that you could honestly reject the idea of rape, or murder, or some other brutal act being wrong? I mean if it ''isn't right'' is just an excuse, couldn't you do any of those things with the excuse that ''well, whos to say whats right and wrong''? and if right and wrong are objective, does either exist? and if not, doesn't that make heaven, hell and all religions pretty much obsolete?

It's a slippery slope.

Well, I took many ethics/morality courses and what you're discussing is ethical intuitionism and when you have time read the objections against it.

However, after taking all these courses, I realized that only those who follow God can claim to have morals. Other than that, everything else is up for questioning.

Good = What God said is Good
Bad = What God said is Bad

Everything else isn't sound and can be argued against. :)

[TheBlueDevil]

Unfortunately my education kinda precludes me from taking an internet source seriously. Especially when i have looked at citations and they have either been completely taken out of context or the author decides to make conclusions completely contradictory to the article's findings. Internet sources are pretty much useless (with a few rare exceptions) unless they are electronic publications of peer reviewed material.

[EOY]

Let's hold off on the straw man, I wouldn't say they go so far as to study the birth rates, or actively try to compete or outbreed, so much as I believe the concept of "open ended" fertility is cherished among Islamic fundamentalist families, the power of demographics is understood well by them, and indeed this trait can bee seen also among a lot of Christian fundamentalists too. Demography IS certainly viewed as a source of hope among disempowered populations. That hope is especially powerful among the Palestinians, who as you can see have alarmed the Israelis enough such that they are pulling out of Gaza and re-districting the country in order to keep it officially Jewish...

I don't think you're going to see a fundamentalist Europe though. I think you're going to see more muslims becoming successful, and embracing the western ways, and less of them tolerating fundamentalism. Breeding will slow down and they will assimilate as "seculars with a strong religious tradition" the same way Christians, Hindus, Jews, etc have in the west. People in poverty tend to embrace fundamentalism because it makes them feel empowered in a world where they are otherwise powerless. Once their heirs start to gain power, they tend to shed the crutch of fundamentalism.

When people from stage three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_transition) countries move to stage four countries, they don't tend to maintain stage three ethics forever.

The bottom line is, having a large number of children is inherent in Arabic and Indian culture. To suggest that Muslims are deliberately having more children in order to take over the west is a conspiracy theory, and a very weak and laughable one at that. This is coming from the man who laughs at Muslims who believe in a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy :rolleyes:.

[ukgent2006]

Well, I took many ethics/morality courses and what you're discussing is ethical intuitionism and when you have time read the objections against it.

However, after taking all these courses, I realized that only those who follow God can claim to have morals. Other than that, everything else is up for questioning.

Good = What God said is Good
Bad = What God said is Bad

Everything else isn't sound and can be argued against. :)



Yeah, that doesn't sound like logic free thinking people should really adopt....it just seems convinent to serve an agenda. Of course someone who sleeps with a nine year old and is believe to be a prophet is going to say its ok....he's hardly going to say ''god says its wrong... whoops shouldnt have done that'' now, is he?

If you caught him red handed (so to speak) he could simply say ''well, god said its ok'' and you'd be like ''oh, if god told you it was ok I guess it is''.

It just seems too easy and convinent.

[EOY]

Not to mention if a girl gets pregnant to early, it really screws them up, it ends up tearing up a bunch of stuff down there, I saw this one story on the news that some have like and endless trickle of pee almost, and they end up getting exiled from the family because it smells bad and they cannot fix it, and the body never heals.

But anyway, the emotional damage is huge too, I'm curious, if this is true, how do you justify it?


So why don't you have sex with nine year olds if it's so rightous? Are you sexually attracted to nine year olds? Be honest now....I'm asking quite seriously, since you seem to have no problem with it.


I'm not emotional. I think people are rather retarded if they are convinced by a book that having sex with kids is ok, but that's just my personal feelings.

Refuted here:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11496153&postcount=73

[TranceNRG]

Yeah, that doesn't sound like logic free thinking people should really adopt....it just seems convinent to serve an agenda. Of course someone who sleeps with a nine year old and is believe to be a prophet is going to say its ok....he's hardly going to say ''god says its wrong... whoops shouldnt have done that'' now, is he?

If you caught him red handed (so to speak) he could simply say ''well, god said its ok'' and you'd be like ''oh, if god told you it was ok I guess it is''.

It just seems too easy and convinent.

If it's ok with God, who are we to object to it, right?

So, what would be the logical move for you to do? I would guess it would be to search and see if God did in fact say so.

How would you do that? by studying religions and comparing and contrasting the scriptures.

However, keep in mind, you cannot reject a religion because it doesn't suit your already made beliefs.
For example, you can't say "well... I'd like to fornicate, so any religion that bans fornicating must be wrong."


Moreover, another way to argue this is to look at the link I posted, and see if there's anything you'd like to add to it.

AND yet another way, is to read the objections against ethical intuitionism and see why your "feelings" may not be enough for moral judgements.


peace :)

[MantisShrimp]

The bottom line is, having a large number of children is inherent in Arabic and Indian culture. To suggest that Muslims are deliberately having more children in order to take over the west is a conspiracy theory, and a very weak and laughable one at that. This is coming from the man who laughs at Muslims who believe in a Jewish/Zionist conspiracy :rolleyes:.
No my point is that it is inherent to their creed (not necessarily the region they hail from) and that they are making no compromises for the norms of their host country, they are importing their own. Disrespect for the host country, or at least claims of such, is the same thing that caused the growth of anti-semitism in Europe and ultimately paved the psychological path for the holocaust. So the muslims of Europe would be well advised to keep that selfish custom importation in check, indigenous people tend to reach a certain threshold where tolerance disappears and racism reigns. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Integration is of utmost importance. Which means smaller families.

FWIW I think second and third generation muslims will tend to resolve most of the tension by spending their time getting drunk and partying like they do here in the states...ie, blending in with the rest of us. :o

[MantisShrimp]

Unfortunately my education kinda precludes me from taking an internet source seriously. Especially when i have looked at citations and they have either been completely taken out of context or the author decides to make conclusions completely contradictory to the article's findings. Internet sources are pretty much useless (with a few rare exceptions) unless they are electronic publications of peer reviewed material.
Understood, but there is a lot of variation, some articles are written and monitored by the same peers who would be reviewing the normal encyclopedia material. This is just evolution of encyclopedias, there is no reason to print them on paper and ship them out to libraries anymore. For sure, some articles are total and utter crap. Here's a horrible one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Transeau

:D

[EOY]

No my point is that it is inherent to their creed (not necessarily the region they hail from) and that they are making no compromises for the norms of their host country, they are importing their own. Disrespect for the host country, or at least claims of such, is the same thing that caused the growth of anti-semitism in Europe and ultimately paved the psychological path for the holocaust. So the muslims of Europe would be well advised to keep that selfish custom importation in check, indigenous people tend to reach a certain threshold where tolerance disappears and racism reigns. When in Rome, do as the Romans. Integration is of utmost importance. Which means smaller families.

I like how you make having more than 2 children "disrespectful." Last time I checked, there weren't any laws against having a certain number of children. Make it a law, then maybe you'd have an argument.


FWIW I think second and third generation muslims will tend to resolve most of the tension by spending their time getting drunk and partying like they do here in the states...ie, blending in with the rest of us. :o

Wishful thinking ;). From what I've seen so far, young Muslims in the states thend to be more religious than their Middle Eastern counterparts. I'm very impressed with how pious the Muslims I've met here are.

[MantisShrimp]

Make it a law, then maybe you'd have an argument.

Not rly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation#Effects_of_overpopulation)


Wishful thinking ;). From what I've seen so far, young Muslims in the states thend to be more religious than their Middle Eastern counterparts. I'm very impressed with how pious the Muslims I've met here are.
I guess you're not looking on internet sites like myspace and match.
It sucks too, because all the hot girls are muslims! :mad:
Time to convert them to Mantisism. :cool:

[Shahin]

Not rly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation#Effects_of_overpopulation)


I guess you're not looking on internet sites like myspace and match.
It sucks too, because all the hot girls are muslims! :mad:
Time to convert them to Mantisism. :cool:
If these girls are putting up pictures of themselves on myspace and whatnot, I doubt they're very religious anyways, so go for it.

[dodgersfan80]

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/bubba1984_2006/Arab20Owl20ORLY.jpg

[EOY]

Not rly. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overpopulation#Effects_of_overpopulation)

Like I said, zero case :cool:


I guess you're not looking on internet sites like myspace and match.
It sucks too, because all the hot girls are muslims! :mad:
Time to convert them to Mantisism. :cool:
I'm aware of those websites, but you're not aware of the people who actually go to a mosque ;).

"Are you aware that there are people with a severe religious beliefs that causes them to be that way ? My friends, for instance, are some of those people. They are Islamio-extremo-fundamentalists who have huge beards, pray five times a day at the mosque and recite/memorize the Qur'an as often as possible from being so religious but you probably don't care about that case either. Oh well I'm becoming one of those people. I am 5'9" 190 lbs and I exercise every other day. I would love to see you say something like that to my friends in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someone's face. Just my thought. What do you think. Oh I'm sorry you probably do not have a beard. I on the other hand would be happy to buy you a camel to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know."

~Mr.Abu Jihad (father of holy war).

[crazynewzealander]

No way would I ever become a muslim. I would die before I even opened a Koran or whatever it is called. Also, there are so many silly rules associated with Islam (or at least Sharia law)

*NO MUSIC (WTF IS UP WITH THAT, THATS REASON ENOUGH NOT TO FOLLOW ISLAM, ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE ME, MUSIC IS MY LIFE!)
*No pork - Pork is the man, a well cooked pork chop is beautiful.
*No chicks wearing bikinis at the pool and beach.
*No alcohol
*No pissing in toilets that face towards mecca
*You would have to eat craply prepared Halal meat, prepare for an explosion in Salmonella.

But what I hate most about Islam (yes I mean hate) is the fact that it treats women with such utter contempt. I cannot abide by such utter rubbish. How can Islam be a good religion that is fair if women must hide themselves in public and can be beaten. Oh yeah and also punishments for minor crimes are way to harsh, I dont want to have to grow a beard, I dont want to have to wear some gay skull cap (the only hats I wear are crash hats when Im on my bike and my baseball cap)

So basically, I would not convert because of the above reasons, and because of one major one I despise Islam, not the people (or at least not the normal ones) but the religion itself. I would be prepared to fight to the death so that freedom remains.!

[ElMariachi]

Like I said, zero case :cool:


I'm aware of those websites, but you're not aware of the people who actually go to a mosque ;).

"Are you aware that there are people with a severe religious beliefs that causes them to be that way ? My friends, for instance, are some of those people. They are Islamio-extremo-fundamentalists who have huge beards, pray five times a day at the mosque and recite/memorize the Qur'an as often as possible from being so religious but you probably don't care about that case either. Oh well I'm becoming one of those people. I am 5'9" 190 lbs and I exercise every other day. I would love to see you say something like that to my friends in front of me. Probably never happen though you are probably just an internet tough guy. I doubt very seriously you would say that to someone's face. Just my thought. What do you think. Oh I'm sorry you probably do not have a beard. I on the other hand would be happy to buy you a camel to come here and see if you have the nerve to say that to someone I know."

~Mr.Abu Jihad (father of holy war).

LOL. +5 for you :) Just as the thieving ba%^d I am, I will be co-opting that as my new signature for a duration no shorter than 5 days :)


aww crap, its too long :) Oh well, its the thought that counts.

[EOY]

LOL. +5 for you :) Just as the thieving ba%^d I am, I will be co-opting that as my new signature for a duration no shorter than 5 days :)

Be my guest, as long as you give credit where credit is due. Otherwise, you have one of two options:

1- Convert.
2- Take off your head.

[TranceNRG]

But what I hate most about Islam (yes I mean hate) is the fact that it treats women with such utter contempt. I cannot abide by such utter rubbish. How can Islam be a good religion that is fair if women must hide themselves in public and can be beaten.


Did you know that 4 out of 5 people that convert to Islam are women? :eek:
But... But... How can that be? :eek:

[dodgersfan80]

Be my guest, as long as you give credit where credit is due. Otherwise, you have one of two options:

1- Convert.
2- Take off your head.
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/bubba1984_2006/notamused.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/bubba1984_2006/youscarekitty.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n159/bubba1984_2006/4812153516pk9.jpg

[ElMariachi]

Be my guest, as long as you give credit where credit is due. Otherwise, you have one of two options:

1- Convert.
2- Take off your head.



What if I just shaved my head and spend the rest of my life answering to the name "Mr Potato Head?" :) Could we call it even then?????

[EOY]

Did you know that 4 out of 5 people that convert to Islam are women? :eek:

Ha! Those are brainwashed self-hating women! You're not fooling anyone. Islam is the plague I tell ya! THE PLAGUE!

[crazynewzealander]

Did you know that 4 out of 5 people that convert to Islam are women? :eek:
But... But... How can that be? :eek:

Possibly because it is forced upon them by their surroundings. See I have no problem with Islam as long as its not trying to either harm innocent people (so called "infidels") or trying to take over non muslim countries. But countries under sharia law are stupid, women are treated terribly and people who leave the anti drinking pro violence all over dick sukking religion that is Islam are then executed.

Basically, it is forced on them.

[EOY]

What if I just shaved my head and spend the rest of my life answering to the name "Mr Potato Head?" :) Could we call it even then?????
Well I guess. Sounds more humiliating.

By the way, Abu Jihad (father of holy war) is not a fictional character.

One of my friends from the mosque told me about him. He said he was flipping through TV channels one day and when he got to CNN (or maybe some other news channel), a man with a huge beard caught his attention. He was from the UK and was being interviewed during that whole UK terrorists almost hijacking planes incident. He made sure the interveiwer undrstood Islam. He said something like "We do not turn other cheek! You mess with us, we KILL you! My name is Abu Jihad, literally translated "Father of holy war!"

He was so comically sinister. Way over the top. He's now to our mosque what brian peppers, silverback gorillas, Mr.Blunt, and Chuck Norris are to the misc :D

[Shagrath]

I like how you make having more than 2 children "disrespectful." Last time I checked, there weren't any laws against having a certain number of children. Make it a law, then maybe you'd have an argument.


As an example, its certainly direspectful for Albanians to breed like rats in Kosovo, gain a 90% majority of the population and then demand that the province be annexed into a greater Albania. What ****in scum they are.

[Shagrath]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060909/wl_nm/africa_migrants_gaddafi_dc;_ylt=AqA02F_BynSeOS2jJw YJw9a96Q8F;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--

btw Gadafi was the guy who suggested that Europe should PAY African nations to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from there, haha what a tool

[EOY]

As an example, its certainly direspectful for Albanians to breed like rats in Kosovo, gain a 90% majority of the population and then demand that the province be annexed into a greater Albania. What ****in scum they are.
Problem solved. (https://www.viagra.com/index.asp)

[TranceNRG]

Possibly because it is forced upon them by their surroundings. See I have no problem with Islam as long as its not trying to either harm innocent people (so called "infidels") or trying to take over non muslim countries. But countries under sharia law are stupid, women are treated terribly and people who leave the anti drinking pro violence all over dick sukking religion that is Islam are then executed.

Basically, it is forced on them.

You have the wrong image of Islam in your mind. :)

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538196&postcount=42

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538180&postcount=40

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm

[crazynewzealander]

You have the wrong image of Islam in your mind. :)

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538196&postcount=42

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538180&postcount=40

http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm

So you're telling me that when I see on tv or in newspapers images of women being forced to wear burkas and being beaten because they disobeyed their husband, that is not really Islam at its finest?

Please explain, pray tell, diffuse all your though processes through those fingers of yours and onto the keyboard, henceforth relaying them to me.

[TranceNRG]

So you're telling me that when I see on tv or in newspapers images of women being forced to wear burkas and being beaten because they disobeyed their husband, that is not really Islam at its finest?

Of course not...


Please explain, pray tell, diffuse all your though processes through those fingers of yours and onto the keyboard, henceforth relaying them to me.

What you see on TV is part of the government agenda to 1) make people think that muslims are really different from them 2) make people hold a negative view about muslims and Islam 3) Keep people in fear of Muslims and Islam
Why? So they could continue with their oppreessive foreign policies.

The links I posted for you, are good links to maybe help you see what you won't see on TV about Islam.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.unionoffaiths.com/

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/

Read for yourself, do let the governments do your readings and your thinking for you.

If you have any question, don't hesitate to ask it in the "Ask About Islam" thread.

peace :)

[Shagrath]

Of course not...



What you see on TV is part of the government agenda to 1) make people think that muslims are really different from them 2) make people hold a negative view about muslims and Islam 3) Keep people in fear of Muslims and Islam
Why? So they could continue with their oppreessive foreign policies.

The links I posted for you, are good links to maybe help you see what you won't see on TV about Islam.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.unionoffaiths.com/

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/

Read for yourself, do let the governments do your readings and your thinking for you.

If you have any question, don't hesitate to ask it in the "Ask About Islam" thread.

peace :)


whilst I don't approve of the wars in the Middle East...

the fact that Islam justifies sex with a 9 year old, forbids alcohol, uses stoning as a legitimate form of punishment and has leaders who prophesise that the demographic takeover of a Christian continent is a victory for Allah is enough proof that I DON'T want Islam running Europe.

Its really quite simple

[crazynewzealander]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG
Of course not...



What you see on TV is part of the government agenda to 1) make people think that muslims are really different from them 2) make people hold a negative view about muslims and Islam 3) Keep people in fear of Muslims and Islam
Why? So they could continue with their oppreessive foreign policies.

The links I posted for you, are good links to maybe help you see what you won't see on TV about Islam.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.unionoffaiths.com/

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/

Read for yourself, do let the governments do your readings and your thinking for you.

If you have any question, don't hesitate to ask it in the "Ask About Islam" thread.

peace


But surely these websites are just another form of propoganada as well? And anyways, I have been to muslim countries before with my family, my mother (when we went to Dubai) was treated like dirt and stared at by many locals in some of the areas around the Jumeirah beach mosque because she did not cover herself up in a great big black sheet.

[EOY]

Originally Posted by TranceNRG
Of course not...



What you see on TV is part of the government agenda to 1) make people think that muslims are really different from them 2) make people hold a negative view about muslims and Islam 3) Keep people in fear of Muslims and Islam
Why? So they could continue with their oppreessive foreign policies.

The links I posted for you, are good links to maybe help you see what you won't see on TV about Islam.

http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/

http://www.unionoffaiths.com/

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/

Read for yourself, do let the governments do your readings and your thinking for you.

If you have any question, don't hesitate to ask it in the "Ask About Islam" thread.

peace


But surely these websites are just another form of propoganada as well? And anyways, I have been to muslim countries before with my family, my mother (when we went to Dubai) was treated like dirt and stared at by many locals in some of the areas around the Jumeirah beach mosque because she did not cover herself up in a great big black sheet.

I'm sorry, but I find that very hard to believe seeing as how westernized Dubai really is. Also, these pics disagree with you:
http://www.travelingdubai.com/photo/beach/dubai_beach1.jpg
http://www.ioannisverdelis.com/albums/2005-09-15-Dubai-Beach/001_BeachandHotel.jpg

Dubai has all kinds of nightclubs too. Drink, dancing and all. You should've picked a different place to claim things about. Dubai's entire economy depends on tourism. I doubt it would be such a popular tourist attraction had tourists been mistreated there.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with people staring at you for not covering up. A woman in a big black sheet walking past a nightclub accross the street from Miami beach would be looked down upon too.

[Geography]

Well, I took many ethics/morality courses and what you're discussing is ethical intuitionism and when you have time read the objections against it.

However, after taking all these courses, I realized that only those who follow God can claim to have morals. Other than that, everything else is up for questioning.

Good = What God said is Good
Bad = What God said is Bad

Everything else isn't sound and can be argued against. :)

Glad to know it took courses in school to help you decide what was right and wrong.

[facetoface]

Glad to know it took courses in school to help you decide what was right and wrong.
I was thinking the same thing, what an idiot.

[dogdogs]

You know, it is quite funny that people still believe that so called cavemen with box cutters were the ones behind the 9/11 attacks. There are tons of videos on the net to prove that this was just another one of the US governments planned tactics to inject fear into its people and allow George Bush to do whatever he wishes. By blaming the attacks on the Taliban, he was able to wage war against Afghanistan and against Iraq, once again under false pretences of Iraq having weapons of Mass destruction. I ask SHOW ME THE MISSLES!! SHOW ME THE BOMBS THAT WILL DESTROY AMERICA?!! WHERE ARE THEY? An example of a video is "Loose Change" goes into detail of why the 9/11 attacks were the government's doing.

Have you followed anything but the fake freemason pro islam hating news channels which includes the worst of them all CNN? Go on the internet and see why do Muslims in the middle east want all Jews erased. Israel has setup its soldiers inside Pelestine and Lebanon constructing who does what. They shoot at children if rocks are thrown at them. They have just barged into Pelestine and made their own community and destroed Pelestinian homes. You think people do suicide missions for fun? Let somebody come in your home and occupy it and govern it as if it is their own. If your wife tells you to do something you get angry and ask why am I being forced to do this? Just expand that and see what those Jew soldiers are doing to the Pelestinians. Many videos on this too. Israel is just a zionist movement they are the real terrorists of the middle east.

By the way, defend your country all you want now. Just know that you are just cattle in the government's huge game for a one world government. It's all over your currency, if you didn't still know, the pyramid on the back of the one dollar bill means something, look into it.

P.S. there is a movie on google that shows that American one dollar bill shows the twin towers up in smoke when put into the correct shape, look that upto then say that Osama Bin Laden orchestrated 9/11 LMAO.

[cowboyathlete]

Here is a thought:

1. Gather up all of the Islamic fundamentalists.
2. Gather up all of the Christian fundamentalists.
3. Give each one of them a loaded weapon.
4. Lock them all together in a giant room.

PROBLEM SOLVED ON BOTH FRONTS!

[Zepphire]

Those muslims have to mind their own damn business. I'll be dead before I recognize allah.

[Thinman]

Here is a thought:

1. Gather up all of the Islamic fundamentalists.
2. Gather up all of the Christian fundamentalists.
3. Give each one of them a loaded weapon.
4. Lock them all together in a giant room.

PROBLEM SOLVED ON BOTH FRONTS!

lol. I like that idea.

[sup_builder]

You do realize that a lot of Muslims in Europe are not that hardcore? Some just ones like going out to party, don't pray, etc...they pretty live like any western white person. There aren't that many extreme Muslims to take over Europe yet.
Althought I am against imposing bans on immigration in general because some people just come to Europe and America for a better life; but I think the govt. should really deny enterance to the mullahs. All they come here for is money and spread their own agenda. They hate western culture anyway. I am not saying they should totally become "white", but they shouldn't stay mullahs either. There's a place in between.

[_AdaM_]

Those muslims have to mind their own damn business. I'll be dead before I recognize allah.

see thats whats called mockery.

"When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting." " 2:14

"God will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (to and fro)." 2:15

[EOY]

You arrogant f*cking *******.... What a little turd you are. So smarmy and self-congratultory and also so f*cking wrong. It wasn't us "immoral" atheists who flew planes into the WTC. It's not us "immoral" atheists who are out there blowing themselves up out of some misguided sense of right and worng. We didn't start the crusades. We didn't start the Spanish Inquisition. We don't burn embassies down, or start riots because someone drew some stupid cartoons. We don't behead journalists, and shoot civilians.

You want to look at all the **** going on in the world today, and tell me which part doesn't have religion as a cause of it somewhere.

Yet you religious people in your ivory towers are soooo f*cking righteous, and noble, aren't you? Yes, you have such great morals. You personally supported Hezbollah firing rockets blindly into Israel. How moral of you. Way to go!

I'm off to go kill a baby now, and wear it's skin as slippers. I'm an atheist. It's apparently what I do.

F*ck you Trance. Seriously. F*ck you, and every other religious ******* that pulls this "religion=morals" garbage.

%*^$*%&*%&*$&#*&#*&*&!!!!!111ONEONEON

[JBDW]

%*^$*%&*%&*$&#*&#*&*&!!!!!111ONEONEON

A tag angry, but also with a decent point. I don't find the Divine command theory all too solid, myself. Hardly seems like the stuff of proper logic IMO.

[MusclezGirl]

You arrogant f*cking *******.... What a little turd you are. So smarmy and self-congratultory and also so f*cking wrong. It wasn't us "immoral" atheists who flew planes into the WTC. It's not us "immoral" atheists who are out there blowing themselves up out of some misguided sense of right and worng. We didn't start the crusades. We didn't start the Spanish Inquisition. We don't burn embassies down, or start riots because someone drew some stupid cartoons. We don't behead journalists, and shoot civilians.

You want to look at all the **** going on in the world today, and tell me which part doesn't have religion as a cause of it somewhere.

Yet you religious people in your ivory towers are soooo f*cking righteous, and noble, aren't you? Yes, you have such great morals. You personally supported Hezbollah firing rockets blindly into Israel. How moral of you. Way to go!

I'm off to go kill a baby now, and wear it's skin as slippers. I'm an atheist. It's apparently what I do.

F*ck you Trance. Seriously. F*ck you, and every other religious ******* that pulls this "religion=morals" garbage.

I suggest a ban for this piece of garbage :)

[sikboy]

You arrogant f*cking *******.... What a little turd you are. So smarmy and self-congratultory and also so f*cking wrong. It wasn't us "immoral" atheists who flew planes into the WTC. It's not us "immoral" atheists who are out there blowing themselves up out of some misguided sense of right and worng. We didn't start the crusades. We didn't start the Spanish Inquisition. We don't burn embassies down, or start riots because someone drew some stupid cartoons. We don't behead journalists, and shoot civilians.

You want to look at all the **** going on in the world today, and tell me which part doesn't have religion as a cause of it somewhere.

Yet you religious people in your ivory towers are soooo f*cking righteous, and noble, aren't you? Yes, you have such great morals. You personally supported Hezbollah firing rockets blindly into Israel. How moral of you. Way to go!

I'm off to go kill a baby now, and wear it's skin as slippers. I'm an atheist. It's apparently what I do.

F*ck you Trance. Seriously. F*ck you, and every other religious ******* that pulls this "religion=morals" garbage.
Get a grip, please do not flame again, or his bannertime..

[Shagrath]

You know, it is quite funny that people still believe that so called cavemen with box cutters were the ones behind the 9/11 attacks. There are tons of videos on the net to prove that this was just another one of the US governments planned tactics to inject fear into its people and allow George Bush to do whatever he wishes. By blaming the attacks on the Taliban, he was able to wage war against Afghanistan and against Iraq, once again under false pretences of Iraq having weapons of Mass destruction. I ask SHOW ME THE MISSLES!! SHOW ME THE BOMBS THAT WILL DESTROY AMERICA?!! WHERE ARE THEY? An example of a video is "Loose Change" goes into detail of why the 9/11 attacks were the government's doing.

Have you followed anything but the fake freemason pro islam hating news channels which includes the worst of them all CNN? Go on the internet and see why do Muslims in the middle east want all Jews erased. Israel has setup its soldiers inside Pelestine and Lebanon constructing who does what. They shoot at children if rocks are thrown at them. They have just barged into Pelestine and made their own community and destroed Pelestinian homes. You think people do suicide missions for fun? Let somebody come in your home and occupy it and govern it as if it is their own. If your wife tells you to do something you get angry and ask why am I being forced to do this? Just expand that and see what those Jew soldiers are doing to the Pelestinians. Many videos on this too. Israel is just a zionist movement they are the real terrorists of the middle east.

By the way, defend your country all you want now. Just know that you are just cattle in the government's huge game for a one world government. It's all over your currency, if you didn't still know, the pyramid on the back of the one dollar bill means something, look into it.

P.S. there is a movie on google that shows that American one dollar bill shows the twin towers up in smoke when put into the correct shape, look that upto then say that Osama Bin Laden orchestrated 9/11 LMAO.

I'm actually not concerned with terrorism much at all, theres evidence to show that its merely a tool utilised by the hawks back in Washington.

However the changing of the demographic makeup of Europe is something I AM concerned about, and doesnt require elaborate plots and killing, but merely stupid third world immigration sanctioned by European leaders and a an ailing Christian birth rate. :(

[TranceNRG]

Glad to know it took courses in school to help you decide what was right and wrong.

Maybe once you start contemplating about it, you'll realize it's not an easy matter.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/

[TranceNRG]

%*^$*%&*%&*$&#*&#*&*&!!!!!111ONEONEON

:D
I didn't even notice that post.

That was amusing to read.

[TranceNRG]

A tag angry, but also with a decent point. I don't find the Divine command theory all too solid, myself. Hardly seems like the stuff of proper logic IMO.

We already had a discussion about "proper" logic, didn't we?

[ukgent2006]

I suggest a ban for this piece of garbage :)


I think he's right.

I am quite a spiritual person, but even I can see the hypocrisy in all these hardcore religious fanatics saying they are the only ones with any sorts of morals.

I love God...but the reason I am not part of organised religion is because look what it leads to. In the middle east especially. It's hypocritical to say atheists don't have morals when some in your religion blow up planes and innocent people or behead people in the name of God.

If God and religion was a more personal thing, not based on spreading through whatever means nessecary, we wouldnt have this problem.

He had a fantastic point, and I don't blame him for being so angry. It's pretty much like a rapist accusing a thief of being a criminal.

[TranceNRG]

I think he's right.

I am quite a spiritual person, but even I can see the hypocrisy in all these hardcore religious fanatics saying they are the only ones with any sorts of morals.

I love God...but the reason I am not part of organised religion is because look what it leads to. In the middle east especially. It's hypocritical to say atheists don't have morals when some in your religion blow up planes and innocent people or behead people in the name of God.

If God and religion was a more personal thing, not based on spreading through whatever means nessecary, we wouldnt have this problem.

He had a fantastic point, and I don't blame him for being so angry. It's pretty much like a rapist accusing a thief of being a criminal.


http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=11149030

I have explained why I think the way I do.
If you have anyt further to add, you are welcomed to do so.

peace :)

[ukgent2006]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=11149030

I have explained why I think the way I do.
If you have anyt further to add, you are welcomed to do so.

peace :)


I know why you think the way you do.

It's still wrong though. I don't need a ''God'' to tell me what to think.

It's not so much about you that's the problem...you are pretty much just cattle (no offense). It's the books and the people who write them that brainwash people like you thats the problem. People aren't usually smart enough to question beliefs, so I dont blame you for it. It would be like blaming sheep for the master leading them in the wrong direction.

[TranceNRG]

I know why you think the way you do.

It's still wrong though. I don't need a ''God'' to tell me what to think.

It's not so much about you that's the problem...you are pretty much just cattle (no offense). It's the books and the people who write them that brainwash people like you thats the problem. People aren't usually smart enough to question beliefs, so I dont blame you for it. It would be like blaming sheep for the master leading them in the wrong direction.

It shows that you haven't read the link, and it shows that you're generalizing ignorantly due to your partial views.

SO, I suggest you read the link and see if you have anything new to add.

peace

[ukgent2006]

It shows that you haven't read the link, and it shows that you're generalizing ignorantly due to your partial views.

SO, I suggest you read the link and see if you have anything new to add.

peace


I don't need to read a link to see a brainwashed zombie when I see one.


It's the sad truth about humanity...most of our race is so easy to fool, so gullible and easily led, that it WILL be our destruction.

You said yourself you don't really think for yourself....your god and prophets tell you what to think. You said that, not me.

Im just sad at the state humanity is in because of people like that that swallow everything.

[TranceNRG]

I don't need to read a link to see a brainwashed zombie when I see one.


It's the sad truth about humanity...most of our race is so easy to fool, so gullible and easily led, that it WILL be our destruction.

You said yourself you don't really think for yourself....your god and prophets tell you what to think. You said that, not me.

Im just sad at the state humanity is in because of people like that that swallow everything.

There's no point continuing this discussion, since everything you're saying has been dealt with in that link.

peace

[ukgent2006]

There's no point continuing this discussion, since everything you're saying has been dealt with in that link.

peace


Im sorry, but ''god says its ok'' isn't a good enough excuse for me.

Its impossible to continue because your parents or whoever have hooked you into this life.

I mourn for you. I don't ever see you being reprogrammed, which is good for you Im guessing, but sad for humanity.

[TranceNRG]

Im sorry, but ''god says its ok'' isn't a good enough excuse for me.

Its impossible to continue because your parents or whoever have hooked you into this life.

I mourn for you. I don't ever see you being reprogrammed, which is good for you Im guessing, but sad for humanity.

peace

[Geography]

Maybe once you start contemplating about it, you'll realize it's not an easy matter.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/


descriptively to refer to a code of conduct put forward by a society

So we've now established that it has taken you paying for a class to discover what morality is, when just as simply you could have discovered on your own.

[TranceNRG]

So we've now established that it has taken you paying for a class to discover what morality is, when just as simply you could have discovered on your own.

No you couldn't.
All ethicists and moral philosophers were well-educated in moral codes set by their previous colleagues.

Philosophy is a normative science, which is why it is different from all other types of sciences.

Descriptive morality is studied by anthropolgists, social ann political scientists, statisticians and etc. but NOT philosophers.

[Norman]

People demanding the stoning of apostates don't have the moral high grounds.
It doesn't matter wether they claim to have found god or not.
It actually shows that some strongly religious people, despite supposedly thinking about what is right and what is wrong, still can have a messed sense of morale.

[TranceNRG]

People demanding the stoning of apostates don't have the moral high grounds.
It doesn't matter wether they claim to have found god or not.
It actually shows that some strongly religious people, despite supposedly thinking about what is right and what is wrong, still can have a messed sense of morale.

Why?
Unfortunately, many people these dayz are victims of Moral/Ethical Relativism.


http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D158437%2526M%253D200169,00.html

^ A simple refutation of moral relativism

[Norman]

Why?
Unfortunately, many people these dayz are victims of Moral/Ethical Relativism.


http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D158437%2526M%253D200169,00.html

^ A simple refutation of moral relativism

In philosophy, moral relativism takes the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect absolute and universal moral truths, but instead make claims relative to social, cultural, historical or personal circumstances. Moral relativists hold that no universal standard exists by which to assess an ethical proposition's truth.

I claimed that people that stone apostates are unethical people,regardless of wether it is written in an old book or not.
This is not moral relativism.


Let me repeat it :
Stoning other people because they don't agree with a certain set of beliefs anymore is as unethical as it can get.
Everyone justifying stoning of other people is not a moral person, he is a psychopath.

[TranceNRG]

In philosophy, moral relativism takes the position that moral or ethical propositions do not reflect absolute and universal moral truths, but instead make claims relative to social, cultural, historical or personal circumstances. Moral relativists hold that no universal standard exists by which to assess an ethical proposition's truth.

Just a quick note
Greatest philosophers such as Aristotle, Plato, Mill, Kant and etc. have rejected the concept of moral relativism.


I claimed that people that stone apostates are unethical people,regardless of wether it is written in an old book or not.
This is not moral relativism.

What is your claim based on?



Let me repeat it :
Stoning other people because they don't agree with a certain set of beliefs anymore is as unethical as it can get.

The laws and the consequences of the laws are clearly stated.
For example, a muslim woman AND man, who are thinking of pursuing adultery are very well aware of the consequences.


Everyone justifying stoning of other people is not a moral person, he is a psychopath.

God has permitted it, in order to punish those who commit henious crimes.

[Norman]

Why you keep bringing up moral relativism? Moral relativsm would be to say stoning is ok in muslim societies and wrong and western societies. I never said that. Stoning is wrong in every society.


My claim is based on seeing a stoning on a videosite. If you really do need an explanation why stoning someone to death is wrong you should watch one. It's absolutely disgusting and it makes the end of Nick Berg look like an act of mercy.
It's the same reason why torturing someone to death is wrong. Because it is a unnecessary act of deliberate cruelty. Regardless of wether you support death
penalty or not, stoning is as wrong as it gets.



God has permitted it, in order to punish those who commit henious crimes.

Not only are the methods unethical, the way the severity of crimes is judged is just as immoral.
Consentual sex is in the same league as murder?
Stopping to share the muslim faith is as bad as rape?
Hell no! It is not.
The reason why these laws are in effect is easy to see:
They are meant to intimidate defectors. Like in any totalitarian ideology.
That does not make these laws ethical, it makes them oppressive.

[Geography]

Quran translated into English - $30
A year at university learning ethics and morals - $5,000
Unable to define ethics and morals - Priceless.

[TranceNRG]

My claim is based on seeing a stoning on a videosite. If you really do need an explanation why stoning someone to death is wrong you should watch one. It's absolutely disgusting and it makes the end of Nick Berg look like an act of mercy.

So, technically you have no rational reason and only based on your emotions, you have chosen to be against a religion, right?


It's the same reason why torturing someone to death is wrong. Because it is a unnecessary act of deliberate cruelty. Regardless of wether you support death penalty or not, stoning is as wrong as it gets.

You're entitled to your opinion.
But your opinion is based on emotional and irrational thoughts.
I am still waiting for you to show me, without appealing to my emotions, why I stoning is "wrong".




Not only are the methods unethical, the way the severity of crimes is judged is just as immoral.

based on whose ethics?
who sets these objective moral laws for you?
your emotions? your desires? your ego?


Consentual sex is in the same league as murder?
Stopping to share the muslim faith is as bad as rape?
Hell no! It is not.

Again... what are you basing your claims on?
your ego? your emotions? your desires?


The reason why these laws are in effect is easy to see:
They are meant to intimidate defectors. Like in any totalitarian ideology.
That does not make these laws ethical, it makes them oppressive.


Who sets these ethicals laws for you?
where do you learn your ethics from?

[TranceNRG]

Quran translated into English - $30
A year at university learning ethics and morals - $5,000
Unable to define ethics and morals - Priceless.

It's quite amusing that you take this as a joke.

peace

[NuggzTheNinja]

Im sorry, but ''god says its ok'' isn't a good enough excuse for me.

Its impossible to continue because your parents or whoever have hooked you into this life.

I mourn for you. I don't ever see you being reprogrammed, which is good for you Im guessing, but sad for humanity.

That's what makes the prevalence of Islam scary.

The fact that a human being is willing to do barbaric, savage, and twisted things simply because it's written in a millennia-old book is a fair bit disturbing.

Anyone and everyone who takes the Koran literally is, at their very core, an enemy of America: Islamic law is simply NOT congruent with those of our country. We can not have sex with underage girls, we can not murder people for trivial religious transgressions, etc. ad nauseam.

If they are allowed to become the majority, say goodbye to all the things that we hold dear.

[_AdaM_]

NuggzTheninja, I clearly gathered information about that underage business right in this thread. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=899160. Obviously, you aren't the first to use that child subject as an excuse to assault the faith. But if your opinion or people around you opinion's blinds you from the real deal, then thats another story.
I believe in the Qur'an, do I see myself as an enemy of US, naah.

I mean everyone is entiled to say their opinions

[TranceNRG]

That's what makes the prevalence of Islam scary.

The fact that a human being is willing to do barbaric, savage, and twisted things simply because it's written in a millennia-old book is a fair bit disturbing.

Anyone and everyone who takes the Koran literally is, at their very core, an enemy of America: Islamic law is simply NOT congruent with those of our country. We can not have sex with underage girls, we can not murder people for trivial religious transgressions, etc. ad nauseam.

If they are allowed to become the majority, say goodbye to all the things that we hold dear.

What do you base your claims on?
Do you have any sound foundation to back your arguments about Islam?
Or are you just saying these to get brownie points from people who are ignorant about Islam?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11539114&postcount=78

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538180&postcount=40

http://www.unionoffaiths.com

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/


You WANT to believe Islam is "bad" and you are forcing yourself to believe it.

Most of your comments are shallow and empty, which of course attracts the people who are on the same level as you.

[NuggzTheNinja]

What do you base your claims on?
Do you have any sound foundation to back your arguments about Islam?
Or are you just saying these to get brownie points from people who are ignorant about Islam?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11539114&postcount=78

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=11538180&postcount=40

http://www.unionoffaiths.com

http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/


You WANT to believe Islam is "bad" and you are forcing yourself to believe it.

Most of your comments are shallow and empty, which of course attracts the people who are on the same level as you.

Islam could be all about rainbows and unicorns, and I still wouldn't support it.

I refuse to support any religion or ideology that seeks to abrogate one's individual freedom to NOT accept it. And yes, under Islamic law other religions are permitted, but they are taxed specifically and treated as second class citizens. And that's in a perfect world.

[de silva]

Who cares what Muslims believe. It is clear that they see themselves first and foremost as Muslims and only then as citizens of your country. They band together, associate almost exclusively with one another, seek to impose new (usually idiotic, always grating) cultural practises on you, force the liberal idiots among you to cater to them with discriminatory set-asides, seal off huge parts of your cities as no-go zones, etc. It doesn't even take extremists to achieve the above, simply normal everyday Muslims. Extremists are simply icing on the cake, but are, in themselves, reason enough to oppose Islam. It doesn't matter whether the extremists are practising 'real Islam' or not; we can be certain that they are trying to practise 'real Islam', and it's that attempt that leads to horrific results.

[TranceNRG]

Islam could be all about rainbows and unicorns, and I still wouldn't support it.

I refuse to support any religion or ideology that seeks to abrogate one's individual freedom to NOT accept it. And yes, under Islamic law other religions are permitted, but they are taxed specifically and treated as second class citizens. And that's in a perfect world.

How much do you know about Jizya?
How much do you know about the obligatory tax for muslims?

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996016702&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam%2FAskAboutIslamE%2FAskAboutIslamE

http://www.islamicity.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=DW0603-2948

[TranceNRG]

Who cares what Muslims believe. It is clear that they see themselves first and foremost as Muslims and only then as citizens of your country. They band together, associate almost exclusively with one another, seek to impose new (usually idiotic, always grating) cultural practises on you, force the liberal idiots among you to cater to them with discriminatory set-asides, seal off huge parts of your cities as no-go zones, etc. It doesn't even take extremists to achieve the above, simply normal everyday Muslims. Extremists are simply icing on the cake, but are, in themselves, reason enough to oppose Islam. It doesn't matter whether the extremists are practising 'real Islam' or not; we can be certain that they are trying to practise 'real Islam', and it's that attempt that leads to horrific results.

baseless opinions....

[de silva]

baseless opinions....

Based on living in Muslim neighborhoods in my own country more like it...

[TranceNRG]

Based on living in Muslim neighborhoods in my own country more like it...

Ok, I won't comment on that, but Islam emphasizes on respecting your neighbours, so if they did not respect you or mistreated you, perhaps they were not following their religion closely.

[de silva]

Ok, I won't comment on that, but Islam emphasizes on respecting your neighbours, so if they did not respect you or mistreated you, perhaps they were not following their religion closely.

Oh I see. So I'm just supposed to wait around for Muslims to finally 'get it right', am I? What if they never do (as the evidence suggests)? Too bad for me and my country, eh? Why should I even risk it?

[PissingQuietly]

and breed like bacteria. 5+ children per household, it's only a matter of time.

Great,

FINAL BOUT

Mexicans V.S. Muslims

[TranceNRG]

Oh I see. So I'm just supposed to wait around for Muslims to finally 'get it right', am I? What if they never do (as the evidence suggests)? Too bad for me and my country, eh? Why should I even risk it?

Maybe you could help them learn about their own religion. :)

My point is, Islam teaches great moral values, about how to behave in societies, and if you witness acts that are questionable to you, check for yourself and see whether Islam teaches that or not.
IF not, then don't form unfair opinions about Islam.
There are always people around who don't follow the laws, that doesn't necessary mean that there must be something wrong with the laws.

[de silva]

Maybe you could help them learn about their own religion. :)

My point is, Islam teaches great moral values, about how to behave in societies, and if you witness acts that are questionable to you, check for yourself and see whether Islam teaches that or not.
IF not, then don't form unfair opinions about Islam.
There are always people around who don't follow the laws, that doesn't necessary mean that there must be something wrong with the laws.

It certainly can mean there is something wrong with those laws. What if the speed limit on highways was 5 miles an hour? Wouldn't that be an absurd law that no one would want to follow, and would break at every given opportunity?

"Laws" that demand humans to always be respectful to others etc are just ridiculous. Sure, those are worthy standards of behaviour. But human experience teaches us that most people will fail to live up to them. But if Islam makes them "laws", if Islam demands that Muslims always be respectful, that Muslims only fight in self-defense, etc etc, then those "laws" will continually be broken, because humans just aren't that perfect.

We can know that the result of any effort to make Muslims follow those laws, all the time, is doomed before it even gets started.

You know what I think? I think your religion has gone to your head a bit. You keep thinking in fantasy terms of what's "possible", rather than more earthy, realistic terms of what can be expected.

[TranceNRG]

It certainly can mean there is something wrong with those laws. What if the speed limit on highways was 5 miles an hour? Wouldn't that be an absurd law that no one would want to follow, and would break at every given opportunity?

Not quite.
Your personal judgement should not permit you to disobey the laws. Perhaps and most likely the law makers who chose 5 miles per hour had more information regarding traffic than you and they concluded that it's suitable for the majority to follow this law (5mi/hr)


"Laws" that demand humans to always be respectful to others etc are just ridiculous. Sure, those are worthy standards of behaviour. But human experience teaches us that most people will fail to live up to them. But if Islam makes them "laws", if Islam demands that Muslims always be respectful, that Muslims only fight in self-defense, etc etc, then those "laws" will continually be broken, because humans just aren't that perfect.

Humans can train themselves to become better.
Just because humans aren't perfect isn't a good excuse to not set laws or change laws.
Even if the speed limit was 50 miles/hr, some people would still break it.


We can know that the result of any effort to make Muslims follow those laws, all the time, is doomed before it even gets started.

That goes with any laws.
Unless you're an anarchist, I can't understand your argument.


You know what I think? I think your religion has gone to your head a bit. You keep thinking in fantasy terms of what's "possible", rather than more earthy, realistic terms of what can be expected.

reality is subjective :)
reality changes from generation to generation and if you doubt what I say, go talk to your grandparents and ask them to tell you about their reality and their era.

[JBDW]

We already had a discussion about "proper" logic, didn't we?

Yep. Nevertheless, I still find myself at odds with you over the acceptance of the idea of divine command. It's not because I'm an atheist, the theory just doesn't make sense to me. Never did. We went through this in another thread if I recall.

[Shagrath]

Ok, I won't comment on that, but Islam emphasizes on respecting your neighbours, so if they did not respect you or mistreated you, perhaps they were not following their religion closely.

can you please stop dismissing everyones opinion and rather inquire further as to what they are basing them on? Yes, some people have had bad personal experiences with Muslims believe it or not

European and Australian residents consistently express their problems with people of the Muslim faith, yet strangely enough I've never heard people tell of problems with people of other religions. It also happens to be MUSLIM leaders who spout comments which I find offensive as an Australian. Something is definately wrong.

[TranceNRG]

Yep. Nevertheless, I still find myself at odds with you over the acceptance of the idea of divine command. It's not because I'm an atheist, the theory just doesn't make sense to me. Never did. We went through this in another thread if I recall.

:)
That's understandable.
As long as you keep your eyes and ears and hearts open, and genuinely seek the truth, you'll find it. (that's about anything in life, not just religion and philosophy)

[TranceNRG]

can you please stop dismissing everyones opinion and rather inquire further as to what they are basing them on? Yes, some people have had bad personal experiences with Muslims believe it or not

European and Australian residents consistently express their problems with people of the Muslim faith, yet strangely enough I've never heard people tell of problems with people of other religions. It also happens to be MUSLIM leaders who spout comments which I find offensive as an Australian. Something is definately wrong.

??
I never said anything remotely close to "muslims are saints."
Yes there are bad muslims out there too.

But the problem is when people look at a few muslims, and make an uninformed/biased opinion about Islam.

[Shagrath]

??
I never said anything remotely close to "muslims are saints."
Yes there are bad muslims out there too.

But the problem is when people look at a few muslims, and make an uninformed/biased opinion about Islam.

Islam doesn't advocate the killing of innocents etc I know that

There are some things I will NEVER accept though, such as stoning adulterers and intercourse with someone around 10 years old

I sincerely do not want people who believe so to become the majority in Western societies. I'm sure you EOY, and SK snicker in glee at articles which discuss the growing Muslim population in the West.

[ukgent2006]

Islam doesn't advocate the killing of innocents etc I know that

There are some things I will NEVER accept though, such as stoning adulterers and intercourse with someone around 10 years old

I sincerely do not want people who believe so to become the majority in Western societies. I'm sure you EOY, and SK snicker in glee at articles which discuss the growing Muslim population in the West.


Exactly.

Using weak ass logic as ''well god says its ok'' to dismiss it is really lame.

But you know what? I don't care how many muslims come into britain, I will never, ever, ever convert for some of those points you mention alone. I pretty much guarentee it till the day I die.

[Shagrath]

Exactly.

Using weak ass logic as ''well god says its ok'' to dismiss it is really lame.

But you know what? I don't care how many muslims come into britain, I will never, ever, ever convert for some of those points you mention alone. I pretty much guarentee it till the day I die.

I'm not concerned at all about myself converting, it is entirely impossible. But just the thought of a nation's culture being radically altered by a foreign nationality is a depressing concept. The funny thing is that it is white, western countries which are faced with such a dilemma. I wonder why that is

[Husker_Fan]

I would rather live one life (as a Christian) than a 1000 lives if I had to worship a false god (islam)

[EOY]

I'm sure you EOY, and SK snicker in glee at articles which discuss the growing Muslim population in the West.

lol..I do :D. Then I think to myself "you reap what you sow,"referring to western imperialism. These imperialists are slowly being taken over (even though it's only through an increase in number) by the very people whom they once colonized. Gotta love karma :cool: (the part of it that doesn't constitute idolatry).

Don't hate me for honestly stating the obvious.

[EOY]

Why are all these alarmists stressing over conversion? No one gives a crap whether you convert or not.

[Husker_Fan]

Why are all these alarmists stressing over conversion? No one gives a crap whether you convert or not.
hmm...say that to the journalists that were forced to convert at gun point. Your "religion" isnt fooling anyone. And dont think for a second that the U.S. will sit idly by and let the country be infested by muslims and converted to Islam. We would readily drop a nuke on any country if it threatened our way of life.

[Shagrath]

lol..I do :D. Then I think to myself "you reap what you sow,"referring to western imperialism. These imperialists are slowly being taken over (even though it's only through an increase in number) by the very people whom they once colonized. Gotta love karma :cool: (the part of it that doesn't constitute idolatry).

Don't hate me for honestly stating the obvious.

****in pathetic, these people can't create properly functioning societies so they pollute the west and drag down the societies there, but thats ok cos they were once colonized...

your backward way of thinking is not really conducive to a better future for mankind at all

another point is that its not just the former Imperial powers who have suffered the wrath of third world immigration, the Swedish city of Malmo now has no go zones for non-muslims thanks to your scum brethren

[Shagrath]

Your all wrong.You will be all coverting to comunism when the VC and NVA come knocking.

hahaha

[EOY]

****in pathetic, these people can't create properly functioning societies so they pollute the west and drag down the societies there, but thats ok cos they were once colonized...

your backward way of thinking is not really conducive to a better future for mankind at all

another point is that its not just the former Imperial powers who have suffered the wrath of third world immigration, the Swedish city of Malmo now has no go zones for non-muslims thanks to your scum brethren

Like I said, "you reap what you sow." Imperialism and colonization wasn't pretty either. What you reap will be similar in nature to what you sow. This is the point.

What is so backwards about what I said? All did was make an ironic observation. No need to get frustrated over nothing. You were practically asking me for my opinion. I guess this is what I get for being honest.

[Shagrath]

Like I said, "you reap what you sow." Imperialism and colonization wasn't pretty either. What you reap will be similar in nature to what you sow. This is the point.

What is so backwards about what I said? All did was make an ironic observation. No need to get frustrated over nothing. You were practically asking me for my opinion. I guess this is what I get for being honest.

you're entitled to opinion, and you're welcome to express it. But I'll tell you here and now that I won't lie. It ****ing annoys me greatly, and that isn't going to change.

By your logic Turkey should be overrun with an influx of eastern european immigrants in reparation for the 500 years of harsh Ottoman rule they endured.

The current British people and politicians had no part in colonialism, yet you are in essence holding them personally responsible for the ills of the past and as such you're insinuating that they bear the burden of third world immigration for the actions of their forefathers. Who gives a **** if hasty and improper immigration degrades a nation as long as "karma" is balanced out right?

IT IS BACKWARD to think that exacting revenge on the West in this manner is preferable to a Europe which is more economically prosperous and does have to burden itself with "unintegratable" immigrants.

[Weightaholic]

Get a grip, please do not flame again, or his bannertime..

Mate, it's the most pathetic and weak argument ever. It's also massively insulting, and part of what's wrong with clowns like Trance, EOY, SK and his ilk. Hubris.

It lays down the automatic assumption that if you don't believe in their little version of God, you're a bad person, and that's just bull****, plain and simple. It also makes all those disbelievers fair game. If someone's a bad person, they probably deserved all they get, right? It sets these people down the path to dehumanising everyone else, and once you do that, there's no such thing as an atrocity - after all, they're just as bad, if not worse than animals.

It's crap, plain and simple.

[EOY]

Mate, it's the most pathetic and weak argument ever. It's also massively insulting, and part of what's wrong with clowns like Trance, EOY, SK and his ilk. Hubris.

It lays down the automatic assumption that if you don't believe in their little version of God, you're a bad person, and that's just bull****, plain and simple. It also makes all those disbelievers fair game. If someone's a bad person, they probably deserved all they get, right? It sets these people down the path to dehumanising everyone else, and once you do that, there's no such thing as an atrocity - after all, they're just as bad, if not worse than animals.

It's crap, plain and simple.

Yes, because only EOY & Muslim friends believe in that argument :rolleyes:

You really shouldn't obsess as much.

[Weightaholic]

Look up what "his ilk" means. Perhaps a little less time reading the "allegedly holy" Quran, and a little more time broadening your mind might be beneficial to you.

It wasn't an atheist who flew planes into the WTC. It wasn't atheists behind the Bali bombings. Bombing of the USS Cole? No atheists there either. Truck bombings in Iraq? Nope, none there either.

Bravo religion. A fine set of morals it has imparted....

[EOY]

Look up what "his ilk" means. Perhaps a little less time reading the "allegedly holy" Quran, and a little more time broadening your mind might be beneficial to you.

It wasn't an atheist who flew planes into the WTC. It wasn't atheists behind the Bali bombings. Bombing of the USS Cole? No atheists there either. Truck bombings in Iraq? Nope, none there either.

Bravo religion. A fine set of morals it has imparted....

Yet you took the time to name just about every frequently posting Muslim by name..whatever.

What's going on weight? You seem to be stressed out. I thought atheists were supposed to be the laid-back-chillaxed ones :cool:

[Weightaholic]

Yet you took the time to name just about every frequently posting Muslim by name..whatever.

What's going on weight? You seem to be stressed out. I thought atheists were supposed to be the laid-back-chillaxed ones :cool:

Smug sanctimonious arrogance ****s me. The whole "only religious people can have morals" by defualt judges me, and that ****s me as well.

Petty little religions. God save us from religion.

[_AdaM_]

Petty little religions. God save us from religion.


I don't get it. You say "god save us from religion" but are seeking God's help?

[Weightaholic]

I don't get it. You say "god save us from religion" but are seeking God's help?

Irony. Look it up.

[Zangief]

I never knew this website contained somone as fuked up as TranceNRG. Defending the topic of having intercourse with a 9 yr old..... lol..... if ur bible told u to fuk ur daddy up the ass ud prolly do that too u fuking ***ot.

[Norman]

So, technically you have no rational reason and only based on your emotions, you have chosen to be against a religion, right?


Who sets these ethicals laws for you?
where do you learn your ethics from?

You need an explanation why torturing someone to death is wrong?
You really think you are a moral person?

[_AdaM_]

I never knew this website contained somone as fuked up as TranceNRG. Defending the topic of having intercourse with a 9 yr old..... lol..... if ur bible told u to fuk ur daddy up the ass ud prolly do that too u fuking ***ot.

I too never knew there were such a noobs like yourself that was lurking around this end of the forum

[etech]

lol..I do :D. Then I think to myself "you reap what you sow,"referring to western imperialism. These imperialists are slowly being taken over (even though it's only through an increase in number) by the very people whom they once colonized. Gotta love karma :cool: (the part of it that doesn't constitute idolatry).

Don't hate me for honestly stating the obvious.

Don't hate us for being concerned about the obvious.

[Geography]

The romans occupied Europe, lets go sack their cities.

[ukgent2006]

I don't get it. You say "god save us from religion" but are seeking God's help?


He's pretty much saying most religious people aren't holy at all, and he's right I think.

[ukgent2006]

You need an explanation why torturing someone to death is wrong?
You really think you are a moral person?


It's truly astonishing that people think that way, isn't it?

[catmando]

No, it's not...
It's much harder to understand how the sons of the first prophet of God, Cain and Abel, did what they did.
:)
Which was what??

[catmando]

I don't get it. You say "god save us from religion" but are seeking God's help?
You don't understand sarcasm?

[etech]

You don't understand sarcasm?

If it isn't in the Koran, it doesn't exist.

[TranceNRG]

You need an explanation why torturing someone to death is wrong?

You may feel different if the person being tortured to death, had raped and slaughtered family memebers.
Extreme punishments are for extreme crimes


You really think you are a moral person?

My personal opinion myself doesn't matter.

[TranceNRG]

I never knew this website contained somone as fuked up as TranceNRG. Defending the topic of having intercourse with a 9 yr old..... lol..... if ur bible told u to fuk ur daddy up the ass ud prolly do that too u fuking ***ot.


Now you know :D :cool:
You learn something new everyday

[TranceNRG]

Which was what??

Murdering his own brother

[TranceNRG]

I've said many times...
If people have a rational argument agains my position I am willing to discuss it.

Otherwise, your emotions and irrationals appeals to one another doesn't phase me.

I reached my conclusions after taking many moral/ethics courses, which is why I welcome ANY of you guys to come up with ANY argument to show me why I'm wrong.

However, you're all entitled to think whatever you wish.


peace

[TranceNRG]

Islam is a disease taught to children. They grow up thinking that anyone who isnt muslim is an infidel and should convert or be killed. They have no tolerance for others. i feel so bad when I see a muslim child, because I know they had no choice in their beliefs and they were brainwashed.
I wish all muslims would see that Jesus is the light, and mohammed (the paedophile) is the devil.
Alo, some modern scholars have theorized that mohammed was epileptic. Imagine that. Muslims worshipping a perverted epileptic.

Would Jesus lie and accuse 1.4 billion people of being diseased?
tsk tsk...

[catmando]

...I wish all muslims would see that Jesus is the light, and mohammed (the paedophile) is the devil...
And you say Muslims are brainwashed??? LOL :D

[catmando]

If it isn't in the Koran, it doesn't exist.
Apparently not. :rolleyes: Like music and statues for instance. There has to be something fundamentally wrong with a system of thought that hates music and statuary.

[TranceNRG]

Apparently not. :rolleyes: Like music and statues for instance. There has to be something fundamentally wrong with a system of thought that hates music and statuary.

“Make yourself no graven image” --> The Second Commandment

[etech]

“Make yourself no graven image” --> The Second Commandment


"Destroy other religions statues."

Islam

[TranceNRG]

"Destroy other religions statues."

Islam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terah

http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/2696

[jmonty]

****in pathetic, these people can't create properly functioning societies so they pollute the west and drag down the societies there, but thats ok cos they were once colonized...

your backward way of thinking is not really conducive to a better future for mankind at all

another point is that its not just the former Imperial powers who have suffered the wrath of third world immigration, the Swedish city of Malmo now has no go zones for non-muslims thanks to your scum brethren
sweden was hardly a colonial power, but i do agree that it is sad that such a small country has such lax immigration laws. their culture is definetly being polluted and diluted by poor immigrants from ****hole middle eastern countries.

if islam is so great, why don't all of the adherents stay in their own worthless, corrupt countries and bask in it's glory??