Frustrated with no progress

[brown_builder]

I didn't know where to post this and I figured this is a general supplement section so here it goes:

I've been lifting since I was 16. I've been very lean and cut for the past 2 years and this last fall/winter got frustrated and pretty much stopped caring about my diet because I wasn't seeing progress. I haven't really ever thought about supplements other than ON's whey, but I've been lifting solid for the last 4 month's with 2-3x per week cardio... I think I want to dip in to the supplement market and see what can help me fill out.

Right now I'm about 5'10" and 186 lbs... I'd say my body is pretty much average but people can tell I can work out (barely).

What would you suggest to help me gain some size that I'd keep, basically fill out.

[chlaxman]

A good nutrition and workout plan. You mistake is not with supps.

[user23960508710783]

I didn't know where to post this and I figured this is a general supplement section so here it goes:

I've been lifting since I was 16. I've been very lean and cut for the past 2 years and this last fall/winter got frustrated and pretty much stopped caring about my diet because I wasn't seeing progress. I haven't really ever thought about supplements other than ON's whey, but I've been lifting solid for the last 4 month's with 2-3x per week cardio... I think I want to dip in to the supplement market and see what can help me fill out.

Right now I'm about 5'10" and 186 lbs... I'd say my body is pretty much average but people can tell I can work out (barely).

What would you suggest to help me gain some size that I'd keep, basically fill out.


I can understand where you are coming from. Everyone hits sticking points in their training sooner or later. Lord knows I have.

Like the other poster said, make sure your training and nutrition are right, i.e. that you aren't overtraining, and that you're getting enough carbs and protein.

As for supplements, have you thought about taking creatine? Or Branched Chain Amino Acids?

Cytosport makes a terrific product called Muscle Milk, which tastes great and produces great results -- I've got all my friends taking it, and to a man they swear the stuff is terrific. I'd like to recommend it to you.

On top of that, Muscle Tech makes a great product called Leukic, which is easy to take and works really well to keep your body in an anabolic environment. It is a little expensive though.

I hope you don't get so frustrated that you give up. Try adding Muscle Milk and Leukic to your regimen, and possibly some creatine. Incidentally, ON's Whey protein is terrific stuff, so definitely, you should keep taking that.

I hope everything works out for you.

[dbx]

A good nutrition and workout plan. You mistake is not with supps.

Agreed. At 19, all you need to do is bust your ass in the gym, eat right, and sleep. Your weight/height ratio is already a great platform to continue on from.

[brown_builder]

Thanks for the advice guys. I've heard about muscle milk but never looked in to it, I'll read into it and the other supp's mentioned.... and trust me, I'm no where near giving up.

[RB12]

a gainer is not the answer:

A few ideas that MIGHT help:

Nutrition / Diet / Macros:

- Total daily calorie intake. This is what will make / break you

- It is NOT efficient to try and lose fat AND gain muscle at the same time

- BMR and nutrition calculator (http://michaelandkendra.com/BMRCALC/bmrcalc.htm)

- Total Daily Protein Intake (for best results I recommend AROUND 2g per lb of bodyweight) (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=337536)

- Foods (Good vs. Bad) (http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2001/172food.html)

- Unified Theory of Nutrition - by Will Brink (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/willbrink10.htm)





Bulking:

When bulking (a calorie surplus to gain lean muscle mass at a optimal rate), I aim for:

- 1lb lean beef per day
- 1 Gallon Skim Milk per day
- Around 2000 cals per day from oats
- Lots of protein shakes (up to 8 per day)
- Chicken
- Turkey
- Beef / Sloppy Joes (manwich)
- Hamburger Helper
- Pasta
- Tuna
- Potatoes
- Rice
- Veggies (Fresh if possible)

(Note: If you can afford it you can do things like steaks etc.. etc..)

- If there was ONE SINGLE KEY to the gains I made in the 1 1/2 years when I went from 175-225 (my best.. leanest gains), it is OATS / STEEL CUT OATS ! The emphasis here is that oats are a INEXPENSIVE, HEALTHY, yet VERY CALORIE DENSE FOOD. I saw lean gains like I had never seen before. But NO THEY DON'T TASTE GOOD. YOU HAVE TO FORCE FEED THEM. This gets old fast. I added about 1 cup of oats to each protein shake.

- Hungry Hungry Hormones (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi55.htm)

- Massive Eating (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi41.htm)

- Stretch Mark Mass (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=301stretch2)

What are some good indications that I'm gaining muscle... ?


Mirror / Appearance
Measurements
Strength
Bodyweight





Cutting:

When cutting (a calorie deficit to lose fat at a optimal rate):

- I eat many of the same foods above, but with a lower TOTAL DAILY CALORIE INTAKE

- I put a emphasis on PRE- and POST-workout nutrition, and the end result is that most of my calories are eaten before my afternoon workout. I have found this to be ideal (for me).

Fullness Factor Chart 1 (http://technologyorgasm.com/upload/fullness.jpg)
Fullness Factor Chart 2 (http://technologyorgasm.com/upload/fullness2.jpg)

What it my basal metabolic rate ?


Your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the energy used (measured in calories) by your body to perform basic functions, including internal energy expenditure, breathing, and body temperature. It is the number of calories your body would expend if you performed no physical activity throughout the day.

Simply put... your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the rate at which your body burns calories while you rest. This is very important because we only have so much time for cardio each day.

BMR Calculator:
http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/


Where can I learn more about the "Fatloss Basics ?"


Fatloss Basics Part 1 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=4476014&postcount=3)
Fatloss Basics Part 2 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=4476023&postcount=4)
Fatloss Basics Part 3 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=4476035&postcount=5)
Fatloss Basics Part 4 (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=4476040&postcount=6)


What are some good indications that I'm losing fat... ?


Mirror / Appearance
Measurements
Bodyfat caliper
Bodyweight





Supplements:

- Supplements / Companies to avoid (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=6801890&postcount=81)

- SAVE $$$$$ ! ! STICK WITH THE BASICS ! ! )


Multivitamin (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/adam.html)
(Click here for a Multivitamin Comparison Chart) (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=561943)
10 lb bags of Optimum Whey Protein (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/whey.html) (This includes a great BCAA profile AND glutamine) (Note: I recommend Choc / Choc Mint only)
Creapure Creatine (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/opt/crea.html) or Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/omega/cre.html) or Magnesium Creatine Chelate (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/clabs/green.html)
Cold Pressed Flaxseed oil (and / or fishoil (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/efa.html)


- Stay on creatine, there is no need to cycle it ! (cycling and loading are totally optional)

- Creatine timing (when / how to take it):
Science behind creatine timing (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=307788)
In depth look at creatine (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm)

- For best results, aim for AROUND 2g of total daily protein intake per lb of bodyweight EVERY SINGLE DAY ! !

Example:


Bodyweight: 200lbs
Total daily protein intake: 400g

Here is why:


Protein Prejudice (http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/proprejudice.htm)
Protein intake studies (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=337536)
BCAA's / Leucine (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=392907)





Workout / Routine:

- I recommend a MAX-OT, 5x5, HST (or similar) routine with a EMPHASIS ON:
- Squatting / Leg pressing
- Deadlifts
- Barbell benchpress (Including flat / decline / incline)
- Both BB's and DB's for best results

- Concentrate more on measurements and less on bodyweight

- Weigh yourself once a week. Should gain (or lose) around 1lb per week (depending on goals).

- Concentrate on form first, in order to stay injury free

- Emphasize both range of motion, and mind-muscle connection

- With intensity, strength gains, and a proper bodybuilding diet, the size gains (or fatloss) will come

- Make sure and have a spotter when working out your major muscle groups, preferrably someone bigger than you

- Don't be scared of overtraining. Simply listen (pay attention) to your body, and ask more questions later if you think you are overtraining.





Cardio:

- If possible, do cardio at least 8 hours from when you lift weights

- If possible, do cardio in the AM after sleeping.

- No need to do cardio on a empty stomach, but many prefer to due to nausea

- Jumping rope is a very efficient form of cardio

- Sprinting is a very efficient form of cardio (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/par46.htm)

- HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is a efficient form of cardio (http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp)






Recovery (A.K.A GROWTH !):

- With proper intensity MUST COME PROPER RECOVERY !

- Make sure and get enough protein right before you go to sleep.

- Make sure and get enough protein/carbs right when you wake up

- Make sure and get enough deep, quality sleep (Not getting enough quality sleep is the #1 newbie mistake. You should aim for at least 8 QUALITY hours of sleep per night):

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/training/sleep_1_pr.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/training/sleep_2_pr.htm

- Make sure and get enough protein / calories on off days (This is when your body will be recovering) It is important to be consistent !

- Make sure and get proper pre and post-workout nutrition:


Carbs pre and post workout.
Protein pre and post workout.
Creatine pre and post workout:
Pre, During, & Postworkout Nutrition (Click here) (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067)






Cell volumization:

Make sure and drink enough water both throughout the day and during your workout (this is CRITICAL ! !) I drink about 1 liter per hour, and at least 3 liters during my workout. (Keep in mind I am currently over 240lbs so you may not need this much).


H2O / Cell Volumization... the ultimate supplement (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=332329)
Stretch Mark Mass ! (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=301stretch2)
The role of cellular hydration in the regulation of cell function (http://www.biochemj.org/bj/313/0697/3130697.pdf)
In depth look at creatine (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/author22.htm)
Glycerine / Glycerol (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164581)







Other Resources:

MCWTRAINER's SUPPLEMENT THREADS (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=590038)
ESSENTIAL Supplements - By Ironpimper (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=517741)
Mind and Muscle - Strengthen your connection (http://mindandmuscle.net)
The BB.COM Bible - By BIGNBUFF (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=167918)
Rules, Information, and "Best Of" Threads Index (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=245936)
Good luck !
If you have read this post and ALL the links provided and you still have a question or concern.. please E-Mail me and I'll get back to you as soon as possible:

pt@controlledlabs.com

Disclaimer: The above post is IN MY OPINION, or IN MY EXPERIENCE, unless otherwise noted.

[pu12en12g]

I agree with RB12 :cool:

[Travis71902]

I agree with RB12 :cool:


LOL.....That one of the bests posts ever on BB.com!

[Shutup]

For me, when I was younger, being over obsessed and not having realistic expectations for my body was a problem. I tried all kinds of supps but nothing had the magic I was looking for. The thing I found out was to just train and eat and it took years.

[RB12]

Where is the original? I'd like to copy/paste that around as well.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=8052617&postcount=6

[pu12en12g]

Where is the original? I'd like to copy/paste that around as well.

Here is the current version:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=10496474&postcount=3

[livinonlava]

Though pu12's post really contains every piece of information you need, I'll offer a brief thought or two in summary and based on your intial post. I would cut that cardio out if you're looking to add some mass. Also, get your macro's in order as others have suggested and try to log what you're taking in. I know the first time I actually recorded my eating was a real eye opener. I think you'll find that upping your calories in and reducing those calories out from cardio will help to put on some pounds better than most supplements. Once you start to see that scale moving upwards, look into some basic creatine, and you should be doing well. Once you hit the next plateau, you can come back and try to find the ellusive edge we're all seeking.

[stephano5]

great post RB12 a few things:
- if u dont like steel cut oats, buy a muesli mix (already has oats in it), and concentrate it more with oats, so as you have your cereal the occasional sultana will pop up and youll enjoy your meal alot more
- you listed creatine ester there, ive heard bad things like poor absorbtion rate and that its unstable to a point where it even breaks into creatinine which is a toxin, what do you reckon?