SuperDrol Question.

[New Life]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hiyas. Im new to taking supplements while working out. I was 224 at 5'9''. Basically fat. I did the body for life workout with only creatine and got down to a solid 181. Im back to 195 and started working out really hard. Im 32 and was previously taking M-Stack, and Animal Stack2 with NOX2. I was able to buy 3 bottles of SD and took my first 10mg today. I workout upperbody tomorrow. I need to know what to take with SD to be safe and keep the side effects to a min. Im not up on the abbreviations for products yet as I've just started really taking better supplements. I finish just about all my sets with 60pound dumbbells. DB's were what I did for the body for life and I like it for twitch muscles. I noticed a good change and nice pumps with AS2 and M-stack with the NOX2. I also bought a supplement for after my cycle for test. the product name escapes me. I've read alot on the boards and it was one that was recommended. Starts with a N. So right now im taking Animal stack2 and NOX2 before workout in the am and SD after. 10mg a day. What should I take for my liver and such so I dont hurt my body with the supplements? Thanks for the input guys and I look forward to sharing my progress with you. Take Care.

NL

[Hizzie]

The "search" function is your friend. Search "superdrol for dummies". All of your questions will be answered there.

[Bad_Vibes]

Wow man, I have spent months researching and changing my mind on whether or not to use this stuff. Well really almost a year now. I have a bottle for about 10 months sitting in my closet. Things like not wanting to get Nolva due to legality issues, fear of permanent liver damage cause I really am suspect as to wether milk thistle does anything, and of course the cholesterol and Blood pressure issues and how long it takes to get back to normal. Not to mention the right lenght of cycle and dosages that are safest and still give results. And then there's numerous friends of mine that have used it but haven't really retained the gains long term except for one that has gone on to more long term intramusculare solutions.

And you just go buy some and start taking it. LOL!! I wish I could be that way.

[ironhead184]

You shouldn't be taking this unless you have done your research and read a the many superdrol logs on this forum. I haven't used it and never will for many reasons. It shuts down natural testerone production, destroys your sex life, and shrinks your balls. So, because of this you need some kind of post cycle therapy like nolvadex. It's hepatotoxic as in liver toxic and jaundice is possible. So you would need liver support better than milk thistle. It shoots your lipid profile way up(take red rice yeast and coenzyme Q together for this). It dehydrates you. If your minimum under 21 it can royally screw up your endocrine system permanently which is kind of stupid for just some quick muscle. This is because the endocrine system is still developing at and around that age. Just stick to the creatine, protein, and hard work ethic. It is really the only way to go.

Superdrol does work well in getting muscle though not to be so critical. I've read many logs and have been very impressed. Just be careful.

[altruistic]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hiyas. Im new to taking supplements while working out. I was 224 at 5'9''. Basically fat. I did the body for life workout with only creatine and got down to a solid 181. Im back to 195 and started working out really hard. Im 32 and was previously taking M-Stack, and Animal Stack2 with NOX2. I was able to buy 3 bottles of SD and took my first 10mg today. I workout upperbody tomorrow. I need to know what to take with SD to be safe and keep the side effects to a min. Im not up on the abbreviations for products yet as I've just started really taking better supplements. I finish just about all my sets with 60pound dumbbells. DB's were what I did for the body for life and I like it for twitch muscles. I noticed a good change and nice pumps with AS2 and M-stack with the NOX2. I also bought a supplement for after my cycle for test. the product name escapes me. I've read alot on the boards and it was one that was recommended. Starts with a N. So right now im taking Animal stack2 and NOX2 before workout in the am and SD after. 10mg a day. What should I take for my liver and such so I dont hurt my body with the supplements? Thanks for the input guys and I look forward to sharing my progress with you. Take Care.

NL

Whether or not you're taking Superdrol, keep using a multivitamin(ADAM), EFA's, amino acids, creatine. These will help keep your immune system strong and substantially aid in the recovery process. Even though on the bottle states "anabolic Methasteron", Superdrol is more androgenic than anabolic. It is not a mass builder. I think they used "anabolic" for marketing and also to help keep the FDA at bay temporarily. You will notice a huge strength increase, an increase in libido, and more muscle hardening than usual.
Most, if not all, of the side effects you read about here on the forums are hugely exaggerated though. There have been NO clinical studies done on humans verifying their truths and I'm into my second time around using Superdrol with no gyno, no bad back, no high blood pressure, etc.
Superdrol does also act as an aromatase inhibitor since it is a derivative of drostanolone. There is really no need to use nolvadex and/or clomid post cycle. The body itself will recover after a cycle. I will recommend you use a good testosterone booster and Perfect Cycle by Anabolic Xtreme.

[FORCE RECON]

you realize that you just took your first AAS, when you popped that SD pill dont you.........."once you pop, you cant stop".......<------ meaning, once you start taking something that will shut down your natural test production, you cant just stop taking it one day, you have to have a PCT plan to follow up that bottle of SD......liver supps, blood pressure, cholesterol ect..........know what you doing before you do it........

...........you wouldnt get behind the wheel of a car and start driving without knowing how to drive, then pick up your cell phone and call someone and ask how its done would you??..........thats what you just did, you started popping pills, then looked around and said "crap, i better figure out how to save myself"........

[altruistic]

Wow man, I have spent months researching and changing my mind on whether or not to use this stuff. Well really almost a year now. I have a bottle for about 10 months sitting in my closet. Things like not wanting to get Nolva due to legality issues, fear of permanent liver damage cause I really am suspect as to wether milk thistle does anything, and of course the cholesterol and Blood pressure issues and how long it takes to get back to normal. Not to mention the right lenght of cycle and dosages that are safest and still give results. And then there's numerous friends of mine that have used it but haven't really retained the gains long term except for one that has gone on to more long term intramusculare solutions.

And you just go buy some and start taking it. LOL!! I wish I could be that way.

No need for Nolva, the liver is the only organ in the body that can regenrate itself, clinical studies prove the efficacy of milk thistle, Superdrol does not cause high blood pressure. Many times hypertension is genetic and is caused by our diet, not by prohormone supplementation. IF it is caused by prohormone supplementation, it is back to normal once the cycle is over. As I mentioned before whether one uses a prohormone or not, supplementation SHOULD be in place to help keep one's immune system healthy and aid in the recovery processes after workouts.

[punksurfer024]

No need for Nolva,

please explain this one for me.


Superdrol does not cause high blood pressure. .

many many many ppl have experienced high BP will using any AAS as well as PH and PS like SD.

[punksurfer024]

No need for Nolva, the liver is the only organ in the body that can regenrate itself, clinical studies prove the efficacy of milk thistle, Superdrol does not cause high blood pressure. Many times hypertension is genetic and is caused by our diet, not by prohormone supplementation. IF it is caused by prohormone supplementation, it is back to normal once the cycle is over. As I mentioned before whether one uses a prohormone or not, supplementation SHOULD be in place to help keep one's immune system healthy and aid in the recovery processes after workouts.

and sorry, why say it does not cuase hypertension and then the next line say but if it does it will go away. if it doesnt cuase it then there is no need for a BUT IF statement.


sorry not trying to attack you or anything just wondering where you got this info from. if you could post up something to back it up id be much appreciated.

[MAX1SBACKK]

I dont think you should use Superdrol, its 17a-methyl DHT..
Even thought it should be good for cutting, I definatly wouldn't even touch it.

[Slated]

I dont think you should use Superdrol, its 17a-methyl DHT..
Even thought it should be good for cutting, I definatly wouldn't even touch it.
you're 15/16, you shouldn't touch anything, sir nips

[altruistic]

and sorry, why say it does not cuase hypertension and then the next line say but if it does it will go away. if it doesnt cuase it then there is no need for a BUT IF statement.


sorry not trying to attack you or anything just wondering where you got this info from. if you could post up something to back it up id be much appreciated.

Nothing in life is 100%. Having said that I had my blood pressure checked twice during my first Superdrol cycle some months ago and it was normal both times.
I have asked repeatedly on the forums for those who post the negative side effects from Superdrol to write up something to back it up. The fact is there is nothing but heresay and most of what is said is just everyone repeating what everyone else is saying. There aren't any clinical studies to prove that Superdrol causes high blood pressure, horrible lipid profiles, etc.

[altruistic]

please explain this one for me.



many many many ppl have experienced high BP will using any AAS as well as PH and PS like SD.

Having read many posts one can come to the conclusion that most who were using prohormones didn't just use one. They stacked everything under the sun to try and get the "ultimate physique." I can guarantee you that most of those many people you're referring to had pre existing hypertension and/or experienced high BP because of all the chemicals they were taking at once.
I say there is no need for Nolva because, Superdrol, like most prohormones are steroid derivatives. That means they're very, very, very watered down versions of the real thing. Superdrol isn't the only prohormone I've used in the past and, take it from one with personal experience, Nolva is NOT needed for PCT after Superdrol use. Unfortunately this belief is mainly because we tend to jump on the popular bandwagon sometimes even if that bandwagon is going in the wrong direction. In other words just because a majority is harping on something doesn't make it right. The human body is capable from bouncing back from illnesses, stress, etc. If one uses Superdrol, a good testosterone booster and milk thistle is good enough for PCT. The body will eventually return to 100% test production over time.

[punksurfer024]

Having read many posts one can come to the conclusion that most who were using prohormones didn't just use one. They stacked everything under the sun to try and get the "ultimate physique." I can guarantee you that most of those many people you're referring to had pre existing hypertension and/or experienced high BP because of all the chemicals they were taking at once.
I say there is no need for Nolva because, Superdrol, like most prohormones are steroid derivatives. That means they're very, very, very watered down versions of the real thing. Superdrol isn't the only prohormone I've used in the past and, take it from one with personal experience, Nolva is NOT needed for PCT after Superdrol use. Unfortunately this belief is mainly because we tend to jump on the popular bandwagon sometimes even if that bandwagon is going in the wrong direction. In other words just because a majority is harping on something doesn't make it right. The human body is capable from bouncing back from illnesses, stress, etc. If one uses Superdrol, a good testosterone booster and milk thistle is good enough for PCT. The body will eventually return to 100% test production over time.

but will it bounce back before or after the negative effects from excess estrogen have taken their toll?



edit: and from the studies ive read the elevated BP is cuased by the anabolic compounds effect on temporarily increasing the size of the ventricles (more specifically the left) there by allowing to heart to pump stronger and increasing the BP throughout the body, especially during intense exercise. but all the studies ive read also say that this is temporary only while the extremely high levels of the hormones are present in the body, once they return so to does the size.

[altruistic]

but will it bounce back before or after the negative effects from excess estrogen have taken their toll?



edit: and from the studies ive read the elevated BP is cuased by the anabolic compounds effect on temporarily increasing the size of the ventricles (more specifically the left) there by allowing to heart to pump stronger and increasing the BP throughout the body, especially during intense exercise. but all the studies ive read also say that this is temporary only while the extremely high levels of the hormones are present in the body, once they return so to does the size.

The only toll excess estrogen will have on a male is either gynocomastia or excess water retention. Gyno is not widespread from prohormone use. The body will eventually return to equilibrium after a while. The male body does have a certain amount of estrogen as well.
True that blood pressure increases during exercise with or without prohormones. This will return to normal once the body is at rest. One will not experience estrogen issues with Superdrol since it is a mild aromatase inhibitor as well. Thats the reason I mentioned a good test booster and milk thistle only for post cycle.

[punksurfer024]

The only toll excess estrogen will have on a male is either gynocomastia or excess water retention. Gyno is not widespread from prohormone use. The body will eventually return to equilibrium after a while. The male body does have a certain amount of estrogen as well.
True that blood pressure increases during exercise with or without prohormones. This will return to normal once the body is at rest. One will not experience estrogen issues with Superdrol since it is a mild aromatase inhibitor as well. Thats the reason I mentioned a good test booster and milk thistle only for post cycle.

even though many many users of SD have experienced gyno?? also i was stating not that exercise cuases in increase in BP as it does. but that hormone increases do as well.

[altruistic]

even though many many users of SD have experienced gyno?? also i was stating not that exercise cuases in increase in BP as it does. but that hormone increases do as well.

Not from Superdrol. If any complained of gyno from Superdrol its because of something else they were using. An aromatase inhibitor will not cause gyno. I don't recall reading posts where many, many people on Superdrol got gyno either. I did, however, read many, many posts of people giving Superdrol a bad rap and they never even used the product.

[IRONMANN1]

Not from Superdrol. If any complained of gyno from Superdrol its because of something else they were using. An aromatase inhibitor will not cause gyno. I don't recall reading posts where many, many people on Superdrol got gyno either. I did, however, read many, many posts of people giving Superdrol a bad rap and they never even used the product.

This guy is a F.O.O.L.

Search for his superdrol thread, and read it. End of story.

[altruistic]

This guy is a F.O.O.L.

Search for his superdrol thread, and read it. End of story.

Yes, end of story indeed! Nothing I've mentioned before is contradicting what I'm posting now.
...And don't add your two cents if you've never used Superdrol, you have no relevant information to post!!

[IRONMANN1]

Yes, end of story indeed! Nothing I've mentioned before is contradicting what I'm posting now.
...And don't add your two cents if you've never used Superdrol, you have no relevant information to post!!

You are truly ignorant. I know this, and everyone on this board that read your thread knows this. And I have PH experience so dont talk to me like an idiot.

I hope you get gyno to the 1000th degree. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Your advice is so bad it makes me want to reach thru this screen and break your face.

Rant over.

[wildman536]

I hope you get gyno to the 1000th degree. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.


Dont ever wish that upon anybody!@!! :)

[IRONMANN1]

If anyone deserves it its this guy. Seriously, read his thread. He gives out the most dispicable advice on this board.

Im not a mean guy, but i couldnt resist this time. :( or :) ? lol

[altruistic]

You are truly ignorant. I know this, and everyone on this board that read your thread knows this. And I have PH experience so dont talk to me like an idiot.

I hope you get gyno to the 1000th degree. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Your advice is so bad it makes me want to reach thru this screen and break your face.

Rant over.

Yes, your rant is over! Don't post here anymore boy. Your accusations have no merit, nothing to back them up with. We all know who the ignorant one is here. Hint for you, its not me.

[wildman536]

look yall lets just stay factual on this thread. PM each other.

[IRONMANN1]

Yes, your rant is over! Don't post here anymore boy. Your accusations have no merit, nothing to back them up with. We all know who the ignorant one is here. Hint for you, its not me.

Listen autistic, first of all I will post anywere I please. And, the only thing I have accused you of is your ignorance, which is very much prevalent. There is a REASON Krzna created a thread called : Superdrol For Dummies. There are many of complications that can and have occured during superdrol cycles. Everyones bodies react differently to any certain compound, so an AI might be good enough for one individual, but not the next. You just never know. And with most supplementation, there is not much scientific backing, as well as blood tests etc. This is a hormonal supplement were talking about here, and you dont seem to give it any merit whatsoever.

p.s. what cup size u fitting into nowadays?

[punksurfer024]

Not from Superdrol. If any complained of gyno from Superdrol its because of something else they were using. An aromatase inhibitor will not cause gyno. I don't recall reading posts where many, many people on Superdrol got gyno either. I did, however, read many, many posts of people giving Superdrol a bad rap and they never even used the product.

please read SD for dummies thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=519245&highlight=SD+gyno

and remember this is from an AX rep.

now please read delayed gyno thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=669724&highlight=delayed+gyno

[altruistic]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hiyas. Im new to taking supplements while working out. I was 224 at 5'9''. Basically fat. I did the body for life workout with only creatine and got down to a solid 181. Im back to 195 and started working out really hard. Im 32 and was previously taking M-Stack, and Animal Stack2 with NOX2. I was able to buy 3 bottles of SD and took my first 10mg today. I workout upperbody tomorrow. I need to know what to take with SD to be safe and keep the side effects to a min. Im not up on the abbreviations for products yet as I've just started really taking better supplements. I finish just about all my sets with 60pound dumbbells. DB's were what I did for the body for life and I like it for twitch muscles. I noticed a good change and nice pumps with AS2 and M-stack with the NOX2. I also bought a supplement for after my cycle for test. the product name escapes me. I've read alot on the boards and it was one that was recommended. Starts with a N. So right now im taking Animal stack2 and NOX2 before workout in the am and SD after. 10mg a day. What should I take for my liver and such so I dont hurt my body with the supplements? Thanks for the input guys and I look forward to sharing my progress with you. Take Care.

NL



How are your gains so far?

[ironhead184]

Altruistic definitely has no clue what he's talking about. YES, it does shrink balls. YES, you do need post cycle therapy. YES, you do need liver and lipid support. Just you can't be telling people that you don't need a PCT for superdrol.

And is superdrol really also an estrogen blocker? If it was then your balls wouldnt shrink bc that's what people use for PCT's.

[creativedesignz]

Altruistic definitely has no clue what he's talking about. YES, it does shrink balls. YES, you do need post cycle therapy. YES, you do need liver and lipid support. Just you can't be telling people that you don't need a PCT for superdrol.

And is superdrol really also an estrogen blocker? If it was then your balls wouldnt shrink bc that's what people use for PCT's.
+1 to that PCT is key, also take red yeast rice with coQ10, and milk thistle if you didnt already read the thread. Some people have bad after effect others do not. I was one of the luck ones, being a smaller guy 163 now and 5'8. the only real bad sides i had were balls shrinkage, my sex drive went through the roof for some odd reason. a little oily skin and some bacne. but my blood test results were perfectly normal to my surprise...

[punksurfer024]

And is superdrol really also an estrogen blocker? If it was then your balls wouldnt shrink bc that's what people use for PCT's.

ball shrinkage is from natural hormonal shutdown. SD is a non-aromatasing (sp) steroid, it wont convert to estrogen.

[altruistic]

Altruistic definitely has no clue what he's talking about. YES, it does shrink balls. YES, you do need post cycle therapy. YES, you do need liver and lipid support. Just you can't be telling people that you don't need a PCT for superdrol.

And is superdrol really also an estrogen blocker? If it was then your balls wouldnt shrink bc that's what people use for PCT's.

For those who have truly used Superdrol your post makes no sense! Don't try to comment/post about a product you have never used.

[wildman536]

Altruistic definitely has no clue what he's talking about. YES, it does shrink balls. YES, you do need post cycle therapy. YES, you do need liver and lipid support. Just you can't be telling people that you don't need a PCT for superdrol.

And is superdrol really also an estrogen blocker? If it was then your balls wouldnt shrink bc that's what people use for PCT's.
im in no way taking sides, just shooting the facts.

It is a good thing to have Liv support (SD will not "Destroy" your liver, oh wait a minute, it can help in the destruction if you are using vodka to take it with)--so i better retract my first statement about it not killing your liver. :)

PCT is ALL in the eye of the beholder. If you are taking ANY other products (stacking for your "Cycle") then yes the compounding of the compounds yes i said it the COMPOUNDING OF THE COMPOUNDS can do wonders to your body.

In "theory" one that is taking SD ALONE would not need PCT, but with all these Nolva pushers out there i can understand why everybody is on the nolva bandwagon, PS-- Nolva is Hepatoxic also.---(Probally moreso than the SD itself) -- once again this all depends on the person. if a person with Hepatitus (yes i know it sounds dumb but stay with me here) takes it it wouldnt be a good idea, now if a "healthy" young male takes it in moderation (not to exceed 30Mgs. for a long duration of time) his liver values possibly will be elevated. (not to the jaundice level as stated earlier)

and yes you may experience a little "shrinkage" but like was also stated above your body will return to the natural way it is supposed to be (even if it takes yrs) like a cut itll heal but it depends on the severity.

this thread is interesting.

[wildman536]

oh yeah and remember kids not to think that this or ANY product will take the place of Food, Rest, and HEAVY A$$ WEIGHTS!!

[altruistic]

im in no way taking sides, just shooting the facts.

It is a good thing to have Liv support (SD will not "Destroy" your liver, oh wait a minute, it can help in the destruction if you are using vodka to take it with)--so i better retract my first statement about it not killing your liver. :)

PCT is ALL in the eye of the beholder. If you are taking ANY other products (stacking for your "Cycle") then yes the compounding of the compounds yes i said it the COMPOUNDING OF THE COMPOUNDS can do wonders to your body.

In "theory" one that is taking SD ALONE would not need PCT, but with all these Nolva pushers out there i can understand why everybody is on the nolva bandwagon, PS-- Nolva is Hepatoxic also.---(Probally moreso than the SD itself) -- once again this all depends on the person. if a person with Hepatitus (yes i know it sounds dumb but stay with me here) takes it it wouldnt be a good idea, now if a "healthy" young male takes it in moderation (not to exceed 30Mgs. for a long duration of time) his liver values possibly will be elevated. (not to the jaundice level as stated earlier)

and yes you may experience a little "shrinkage" but like was also stated above your body will return to the natural way it is supposed to be (even if it takes yrs) like a cut itll heal but it depends on the severity.

this thread is interesting.

Well informed, thanks for the info.

[altruistic]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hiyas. Im new to taking supplements while working out. I was 224 at 5'9''. Basically fat. I did the body for life workout with only creatine and got down to a solid 181. Im back to 195 and started working out really hard. Im 32 and was previously taking M-Stack, and Animal Stack2 with NOX2. I was able to buy 3 bottles of SD and took my first 10mg today. I workout upperbody tomorrow. I need to know what to take with SD to be safe and keep the side effects to a min. Im not up on the abbreviations for products yet as I've just started really taking better supplements. I finish just about all my sets with 60pound dumbbells. DB's were what I did for the body for life and I like it for twitch muscles. I noticed a good change and nice pumps with AS2 and M-stack with the NOX2. I also bought a supplement for after my cycle for test. the product name escapes me. I've read alot on the boards and it was one that was recommended. Starts with a N. So right now im taking Animal stack2 and NOX2 before workout in the am and SD after. 10mg a day. What should I take for my liver and such so I dont hurt my body with the supplements? Thanks for the input guys and I look forward to sharing my progress with you. Take Care.

NL


It has been sixteen days now. How is your progress, body composition? How are your gains?
I'm going into my third week with increased strength and a leaner body with denser muscle mass. My first cycle of Superdrol a few months back I used it as a stand alone, this time I combined it with creatine for extra mass since SD isn't much of a mass builder. Fat loss yes, stronger yes, feel better yes!:)

[ScrillaKeith]

No need for Nolva, the liver is the only organ in the body that can regenrate itself, clinical studies prove the efficacy of milk thistle, Superdrol does not cause high blood pressure. Many times hypertension is genetic and is caused by our diet, not by prohormone supplementation. IF it is caused by prohormone supplementation, it is back to normal once the cycle is over. As I mentioned before whether one uses a prohormone or not, supplementation SHOULD be in place to help keep one's immune system healthy and aid in the recovery processes after workouts.
Nolva IS needed and Superdrol CAN cause high blood pressure. Just because it didn't for you, doesn't mean it can't happen. Even if only temporary, it should still be monitored. Why would you tell someone who wants to play it safe that they don't need this and that. Seriously, the advice that some people give on this boards can be borderline sickening.

And to the original poster here's a link to my thread on support supplements. It covers the common side effects and how to combat them as well as links to most of the best threads on related subjects:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=638519

[altruistic]

Nolva IS needed and Superdrol CAN cause high blood pressure. Just because it didn't for you, doesn't mean it can't happen. Even if only temporary, it should still be monitored. Why would you tell someone who wants to play it safe that they don't need this and that. Seriously, the advice that some people give on this boards can be borderline sickening.

And to the original poster here's a link to my thread on support supplements. It covers the common side effects and how to combat them as well as links to most of the best threads on related subjects:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=638519

Please explain why Nolva is needed after Superdrol and how Superdrol causes high blood pressure.
Like you I'm tired of many on the forums stating theories without backing them up with scientific/clinical proof. How does Superdrol work and why is Nolva needed post cycle? Explain Nolva's purpose and why its needed after using a drostanolone derivative. Let's see the answer please!

[ScrillaKeith]

Nolvadex for increasing test levels and help restoring lipid profiles. If you don't believe SD will affect your lipids, then you a)haven't gotten a blood test and b) haven't done the research. I would recommend having it on hand whether you plan on using it or not, in the case that problems (gyno) arise anyways. It is inexpensive and readily available. (see quote)

High blood pressure? I'm speaking from personal experience on this one, as well as observation of others. How SD causes it? I honestly couldn't tell you, but why would you actively promote ignorance of this being a possible side effect. What is your motive? Saving people a few bucks in support supplements?

I see no reason in trying to convince somebody not to have these supplements on hand. If you, personally, don't feel the need to use them, that's fine. It's your body. But to somebody who may run into these problems at some point or another and the situation could have been easily preventable....I think I've made my point.


One of the first drugs we’ll consider for this purpose is what is typically called a SERM. Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) is a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator, which means that it has the ability to act as an anti-estrogen with regard to certain genes, yet also acting as an estrogen with respect to others. That’s the “selective” part I guess. It does this by blocking gene transcription in some cases, and initiating gene transcription in others (3). Luckily for us, it has estrogenic effects on bones (meaning it increases their density), and blood lipids -meaning it lowers cholesterol-, (4)(5)as well as preventing gynocomastia by preventing estrogen gene transcription in breast tissue. However, it acts as an anti-estrogen in the pituitary, thus increasing LH and FSH, which results in an increase in testosterone. 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Nolvadex actually has quite a few applications for the steroid using athlete. First and foremost, it’s most common use is for the prevention of gynocomastia. Nolvadex does this by actually competing for the receptor site in breast tissue, and binding to it. Thus, we can safely say that the effect of tamoxifen is through estrogen receptor blockade of breast tissue (7).
Estrogen is also important for a properly functioning immune system, and not only that, but your lipid profile (both HDL and LDL) should also show marked improvement with administration of tamoxifen (34).
from: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

[OneBetter]

Having read many posts one can come to the conclusion that most who were using prohormones didn't just use one. They stacked everything under the sun to try and get the "ultimate physique." I can guarantee you that most of those many people you're referring to had pre existing hypertension and/or experienced high BP because of all the chemicals they were taking at once.
I say there is no need for Nolva because, Superdrol, like most prohormones are steroid derivatives. That means they're very, very, very watered down versions of the real thing. Superdrol isn't the only prohormone I've used in the past and, take it from one with personal experience, Nolva is NOT needed for PCT after Superdrol use. Unfortunately this belief is mainly because we tend to jump on the popular bandwagon sometimes even if that bandwagon is going in the wrong direction. In other words just because a majority is harping on something doesn't make it right. The human body is capable from bouncing back from illnesses, stress, etc. If one uses Superdrol, a good testosterone booster and milk thistle is good enough for PCT. The body will eventually return to 100% test production over time.

seeing as how the main point of your arguement is that SD is a pro hormone, when it's clearly an oral steriod, the above is garbage. i really hope no one takes his posts seriously.

[RobDyson]

seeing as how the main point of your arguement is that SD is a pro hormone, when it's clearly an oral steriod, the above is garbage. i really hope no one takes his posts seriously.
^^Yes exactly

[creativedesignz]

Not from Superdrol. If any complained of gyno from Superdrol its because of something else they were using. An aromatase inhibitor will not cause gyno. I don't recall reading posts where many, many people on Superdrol got gyno either. I did, however, read many, many posts of people giving Superdrol a bad rap and they never even used the product.
you are a moron my friend. SD was the ONLY thing i have taken, after my PCT one week later and viola gyno in my right nipple. its going away with nolva but still...your an idiot ^10thpower. dont give anyone advice for anything reguarding SD. Get a blood test and come back and post in here. An AI does cause gyno its surpressing the estrogen for so long, as soon as u get off ur body sees a spike, its almost like a shock to the system of estrogen, if im not mistaken. hence y people get DELAYED gyno from SD

[888888]

woah... seriously... read and search before even contemplating using it let alone starting it!

[wildman536]

you are a moron my friend. SD was the ONLY thing i have taken, after my PCT one week later and viola gyno in my right nipple. its going away with nolva but still...your an idiot ^10thpower. dont give anyone advice for anything reguarding SD. Get a blood test and come back and post in here. An AI does cause gyno its surpressing the estrogen for so long, as soon as u get off ur body sees a spike, its almost like a shock to the system of estrogen, if im not mistaken. hence y people get DELAYED gyno from SD
now now lets not get name calling happy here, i see that you are 21 so tell me about your SD experience (so long as it was after you turned 21) What is a blood test going to do for this guy? like i have posted before im going to remain neutral in the argument and just go on fact. as far as your idea behind an AI supressing the Estrogen i would have to say that with SD you are getting a relitively low rate of supression (now i did not say that there wasnt any supression just a low rate) like i said, before we get started on the specifics we need to look at your specifics. Providing that when you took your "cycle" you were 21 (already abnormally high levels of test running through you) and you took the minimum dose 10mgs for 2 weeks then took care of yourself as directed (The pct product that was designed with this supp) adding in all the support supps reccomended on this board you theoredicaly should not have gyno.

I do not understand the reasoning behind HAVING TO HAVE NOLVA for EVERYTHING!!! this is BS why kill your estrogen/test levels anymore than you have to. I can see nolva/clom for a Injectable cycle to get the levels up to par but after a couple of weeks of SD?? everybody talks about how SD KILLS your Liver, why in the hell would you want to stress your Liv anymore with the Nolva??

ugh.

[wildman536]

Nolvadex for increasing test levels and help restoring lipid profiles. If you don't believe SD will affect your lipids, then you a)haven't gotten a blood test and b) haven't done the research. I would recommend having it on hand whether you plan on using it or not, in the case that problems (gyno) arise anyways. It is inexpensive and readily available. (see quote)

High blood pressure? I'm speaking from personal experience on this one, as well as observation of others. How SD causes it? I honestly couldn't tell you, but why would you actively promote ignorance of this being a possible side effect. What is your motive? Saving people a few bucks in support supplements?





in the second paragraph you talk of high blood pressure, Nolva will not help in this. please offer something that will since we are in a heated discussion. Support supps are great!! by all means have the milk thistle and the Hawthorn berries etc ready at all times. But understand you are PUTTING A DRUG INTO YOUR BODY AND ITS GOING TO GOING TO GOING TO HAVE SIDES NO MATTER WHAT!!

NO MATTER WHAT!!!

dont we just wish that we had some form of musclebuilding supp that had absolutely no sides?? oh wait i forgot, we do ITS CALLED FOOD AND HARD WORK!!

So your advicating using Nolva for the Test Heightning properties?? i will agree that it helps in aiding the Lipids to get back to normal but why use a product thatll add test to your cycle when you already have an abundance of test running through it in the first place and the whole reason people are getting gyno anyway?? (excess test>estrogen>gyno) Get a good test boosting (Natural) OVER THE COUNTER NON REASEARCH supp and youll be good. If you get gyno study up on Letro.

Have a great day!!

[wildman536]

woah... seriously... read and search before even contemplating using it let alone starting it!
if only everyone that walked through a supp stores door had access to this or any other forum that talks about BBing and supps what a great world this would be. :)

just think about those poor people out there that are taking this stuff with no breaks, no idea of support supps, do not even know what PCT is, dont eat right, dont get enough rest, maybe not even on a "Split"

Damn.

[altruistic]

High blood pressure? I'm speaking from personal experience on this one, as well as observation of others. How SD causes it? I honestly couldn't tell you, but....I think I've made my point.


from: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/post-cycle-therapy.htm

No I don't think you've made your point at all. Using Nolva after a drostanolone derivative(Superdrol) would be counterproductive. Superdrol, a synthetic hormone, is not a mass building steroid like Test or Dianabol which utilizes estrogen. Remember without estrogen there wouldn't be any mass. Superdrol is a mild aromatase inhibitor therefore a good testosterone booster combined with milk thistle would be enough for PCT. An example would be Blue Up by Controlled Labs. As I've mentioned many times before I take and advocate the use of multivitamins, EFA's, amino acids, creatine, to speed in the recovery process and keep the immune system strong.
Using Nolva post Superdrol is just unnecessary and counterproductive.

http://health.yahoo.com/drug/d00381a1

[altruistic]

you are a moron my friend. SD was the ONLY thing i have taken, after my PCT one week later and viola gyno in my right nipple. its going away with nolva but still...your an idiot ^10thpower. dont give anyone advice for anything reguarding SD. Get a blood test and come back and post in here. An AI does cause gyno its surpressing the estrogen for so long, as soon as u get off ur body sees a spike, its almost like a shock to the system of estrogen, if im not mistaken. hence y people get DELAYED gyno from SD

Which people are you referring to? Delayed gyno is a theory which wasn't even properly proven with enough human test subjects. The theory looks good on paper but we have yet to see actual clinical studies that prove it. A shock to the system of estrogen?? Please stop riding the forum bandwagon in repeating what you've read from many members who HAVEN'T used Superdrol. Why is it that one who actually USED the product, giving good reports/results, is put down by those who haven't? Anyway, I think I've answered that already.

[wildman536]

the only side that makes me leary of taking SD is the lipid issue. Thats a fixable thing (a script helps alot also) but as far as the root cause of gyno. NO.

[Cyrus317]

This thread went crazy with people arguing about stuff that doesn't need to be argued about. SD is effectively an oral steroid (thus, they discontinued making it over at AX). You need to have proper organ support when on a supplement such as this. I'm finishing my PCT right now, and not to tought my own thread, but if you are looking for a list of proper support supps for an SD cycle as well as an SD PCT, check out this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=811504

In post 8 and 13 I list out the full names for all of my on-cycle support supps, as well as what brands I used (in case you were really clueless). Post 13 only contains two products, but one of them I have found invaluable at maintaining test levels. This is ZMA, and I'd definitely add it to your own cycle.

In post 15 I detail what the PCT looks like. I even have the exact dosings you need for each supp. Please don't be stupid and think you can just pop some SD and be fine. Do some research or you'll end up hurting yourself, and you'll probably deserve it.

[ScrillaKeith]

in the second paragraph you talk of high blood pressure, Nolva will not help in this. please offer something that will since we are in a heated discussion. Support supps are great!! by all means have the milk thistle and the Hawthorn berries etc ready at all times. But understand you are PUTTING A DRUG INTO YOUR BODY AND ITS GOING TO GOING TO GOING TO HAVE SIDES NO MATTER WHAT!!

NO MATTER WHAT!!!

dont we just wish that we had some form of musclebuilding supp that had absolutely no sides?? oh wait i forgot, we do ITS CALLED FOOD AND HARD WORK!!

So your advicating using Nolva for the Test Heightning properties?? i will agree that it helps in aiding the Lipids to get back to normal but why use a product thatll add test to your cycle when you already have an abundance of test running through it in the first place and the whole reason people are getting gyno anyway?? (excess test>estrogen>gyno) Get a good test boosting (Natural) OVER THE COUNTER NON REASEARCH supp and youll be good. If you get gyno study up on Letro.

Have a great day!!

If you look at my previous post: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=10871604&postcount=36
It lists supplements effective in dealing with blood pressure issues. Obviously nolva is not going to help with that. And as far as Nolva causing gyno??? Where does that theory come from? In reality nolva OR an OTC test booster is not going to have a whole lot of purpose immediately post cycle, which leaves us with HCG, which is not cheap and readily available to most.
If you read what I posted, I said Nolva is needed for SD (or ANY cycle for that matter) at least in the emergency of gyno arising.


You say why use Nolva if there is already an abundance of test. What makes you think there is an abundance of test right after a cycle? And if there were in fact an abundance, then the nolva would be a hell of a lot more important.

[ScrillaKeith]

No I don't think you've made your point at all. Using Nolva after a drostanolone derivative(Superdrol) would be counterproductive. Superdrol, a synthetic hormone, is not a mass building steroid like Test or Dianabol which utilizes estrogen. Remember without estrogen there wouldn't be any mass. Superdrol is a mild aromatase inhibitor therefore a good testosterone booster combined with milk thistle would be enough for PCT. An example would be Blue Up by Controlled Labs. As I've mentioned many times before I take and advocate the use of multivitamins, EFA's, amino acids, creatine, to speed in the recovery process and keep the immune system strong.
Using Nolva post Superdrol is just unnecessary and counterproductive.

http://health.yahoo.com/drug/d00381a1

Superdrol a mild AI? That's an understatement if I ever heard one! I don't understand why you keep referring to it as if it's masteron. Superdrol and masteron are not the same. SD is methylated at the 17th position. They are completely different compounds.

And furthermore, the support supplements you advocate are supplements that would be taken regularly by most people anyways. Why take milk thistle Post cyle if you're not using Nolva. Milk thistle is a liver protectant, not a detoxifier. If anything you would use it before and during cycle and not after (unless you are using Nolva).

[aoba]

I dont think you should use Superdrol, its 17a-methyl DHT..
Even thought it should be good for cutting, I definatly wouldn't even touch it.

how the hell did you come upon this conclusion? Superdrol is not good at all for cutting and is a waste of PS/PH. Check the logs, no one uses it for a cut. Instead for a cut, something like megazol (aka prostanozol/orastan E) is much better. but..i agree with slated, dont even think about using these supps, and as seen in other posts...no need to stock up on them, something will always be around down the road and there may be safer supplements later on that can give you the physique you want.