Body Can Only Absorb 30gs Protein...True?

[drewteacher]

I have read that the body can only absorb up to 30gs of protein at a time. Is that true? Does that mean taking 50gs of whey protein isolate at a time (for example) wastes 20gs? Thanks.

[xjae]

hmm I think that only goes for certain types of protein maybe (I think I'm wrong). Like whey protein, your body can absorb only 23 grams at a time and same with casein. Bodybuilders take in more than 30 grams of protein at a time and they don't have a hard time digesting all that so I'm guessing it also depends on the bodyweight.

[pauljack]

To find the true answer.

[rip]

I have read that the body can only absorb up to 30gs of protein at a time. Is that true? Does that mean taking 50gs of whey protein isolate at a time (for example) wastes 20gs? Thanks.

It's a myth. Your body can digest much more than 30 grams of protein at a time.

[prometeo]

I aim for 50g of protein at max per meal, but sometimes i even go higher
like when i just wake up and when i have a real intense workout even though i try to get arround a scoop and a half of whey and some eggs or some other type of protein...
Later!

Edit: Have you seen Big Ron eating chicken ???
tell that aint more than 30g. of protein...
I bet he knows what hes doing...
not flaming, just pointing you in the right direction...

[WCC]

if you weigh 90lbs maybe.
if you're 310lbs like Ronnie, you could probably absord 10x that.
it all depends on bodyweight. also metabolic rate; if you have an ultra fast metabolism (like me; i never feel full for longer than 5 minutes), you'll be able to digest more in a shorter space of time.

hope this helps.

[Jeff-]

Your body takes up what is needed, point simple point blank.

[ratmonkey]

all will be digested, all will be absorbed, not all will go to muscle/tissue repair. only uses what's needed.

you can eat 200g/meal if you like. it won't all get used, but it will all be digested.

[gymgrown]

In other words, there's no harm in eating more protien than you can use?

I really want to know what "at a time" means. How long is a time? What if I eat a meal over a period of half an hour?

[niCe99]

In other words, there's no harm in eating more protien than you can use?

I really want to know what "at a time" means. How long is a time? What if I eat a meal over a period of half an hour?

theres no harm...just some of it wont get used up cause your body wont need it


think of it this way....you buy 10 condoms but you really only last 5 mins....so every 5 mins you use a condom....space out the time before you are ready again....repeat.

[Dr.Dave1]

In other words, there's no harm in eating more protien than you can use?

I really want to know what "at a time" means. How long is a time? What if I eat a meal over a period of half an hour?
Assuming you have no kidney problems there is no harm in eating more protein. If you eat more than you need for use in repair and synthesis (the amount needed for this can vary greatly depending on your body's needs) the rest will be stored as fat or converted to glucose. As long as your consumption is within moderation and your kidneys are healthy you should be fine.

[A Sure Shot Hit]

True!

[bumblebeegsxr]

Keep in mind that pro bodybuilders juice, so they CAN absorb more protein. A natural fella cant absorb the same. It also has to do with your metabolism. I dont think anybody can truly prove how much an average person absorbs. I DO believe that throughout the years, people have come up with a guesstimate for an average person. I think you can narrow it down by watching the diet really closely and studying it. I just go by 25 grams a meal and 50 after the workout while still pumped.

[Evan_k]

the average person aborbs roughly 30g of protein per sitting. After hard training your body will need more protein for repair for tissues so it will be able to absorb more protein, but we're not talking tons more maybe 50 grams. Your body only uses the amount of protein it needs and the rest is wasted. So if your trying to consume 300g a day thru 3-4 meals a day good luck cuz you wont absorb most of it. better to have more high protein meals thruought the day. A bodybuilder however, who's bodies are more adapted to taking in large amounts of protein will prolly be able to abosrb more than 30grams in a normal sitting.

[Greek God]

the average person aborbs roughly 30g of protein per sitting. After hard training your body will need more protein for repair for tissues so it will be able to absorb more protein, but we're not talking tons more maybe 50 grams. Your body only uses the amount of protein it needs and the rest is wasted. So if your trying to consume 300g a day thru 3-4 meals a day good luck cuz you wont absorb most of it. better to have more high protein meals thruought the day. A bodybuilder however, who's bodies are more adapted to taking in large amounts of protein will prolly be able to abosrb more than 30grams in a normal sitting.

Almost correct, the rest is stored as fat and pissed out.

[dangerice]

so if i follow the 1g protein/lb of bodyweight, how am I supposed to accomplish getting 260g protein a day if i can only use 30g in a sitting? eat 8-9 times a day?

[Karl Moen]

so if i follow the 1g protein/lb of bodyweight, how am I supposed to accomplish getting 260g protein a day if i can only use 30g in a sitting? eat 8-9 times a day?


Jay Cutler wakes up every few hours just to eat
this is true

right now my workout program requires me to consume 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per pound of weight. I eat 50 grams of protein at a time, but my body uses it. every 3 hours i eat, so thats 6 meals a day, and 75g comes from protein shakes

Joe Weiders mag FLEX says the body can consume up to 50g at any given time

not sure if hes right, but thats how my body works

[ratmonkey]

the average person aborbs roughly 30g of protein per sitting. After hard training your body will need more protein for repair for tissues so it will be able to absorb more protein, but we're not talking tons more maybe 50 grams. Your body only uses the amount of protein it needs and the rest is wasted. So if your trying to consume 300g a day thru 3-4 meals a day good luck cuz you wont absorb most of it. better to have more high protein meals thruought the day. A bodybuilder however, who's bodies are more adapted to taking in large amounts of protein will prolly be able to abosrb more than 30grams in a normal sitting.
:rolleyes: what did i just say?

there is no science backing this number up. none. you will not find one peer reviewed journal entry giving this number. this is a myth kept alive by noobs and nutrition "professionals".

[Will Harrison]

Published data would suggest this number will vary depending on several variables.
Strength Training vs. Endurance Training
Total Caloric Intake (State of Positive or Negative Energy Balance)
Predisposed Insulin Sensitivity
Body Weight/LBM
Levels of Various Anabolic Hormones (Endogenous and Exogenous)

Bottom Line
.8 - 1.2 grams/lb. seems to provide a positive Nitrogen Balance for weight lifters.

Check out work from Lowery, Lemon, and Tarnopolsky on pubmed

[str8flexed]

yes but nitrogen balance isn't nessecarily indicitive of optimal protein intake, it's moreso an indicator of minimum needs

[rip]

Let me repeat that the 30 grams of protein garbage is a fabrication and is not true. Your body will digest the majority of protein consumed, even if you eat 100 grams at once. The amount that is absorbed is dependent on the bioavailability of that protein. Extra protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis or converted to fat which is less likely.

[str8flexed]

:rolleyes: what did i just say?

there is no science backing this number up. none. you will not find one peer reviewed journal entry giving this number. this is a myth kept alive by noobs and nutrition "professionals".
exactly

interestingly enough, this is the exact question our lab is working on

[rip]

exactly

interestingly enough, this is the exact question our lab is working on

If they come to a conclusion please let us know, that would be very interesting.

[gymgrown]

If they come to a conclusion please let us know, that would be very interesting.
x2!

[str8flexed]

don't expect the answer anytime soon

[gymgrown]

I was thinking about this recently. I'd like to conduct a study where a bunch of whey protien isolate is made radioactive, and its absorption is tracked using radioactive signatures. Of course, that would be a lot of radioactivity... and I'd also have to get a scientific degree to go into that field.

[str8flexed]

I was thinking about this recently. I'd like to conduct a study where a bunch of whey protien isolate is made radioactive, and its absorption is tracked using radioactive signatures. Of course, that would be a lot of radioactivity... and I'd also have to get a scientific degree to go into that field.
if you just want to look at absorption that is pretty easy. if you want to look at utilization (big difference) IE what is the optimimum meal to meal level for maximizing protein synthesis... that is much more difficult.

we are looking at the latter

[BringnIt]

What type of protein are you utilizing in your testing?

[str8flexed]

most likely whey isolate

[BringnIt]

It is logical to assume that other slower-digesting proteins would allow for greater total amounts of protein at one time (for optimal utilization) than a whey derivative, it's safe to say?

[str8flexed]

It is logical to assume that other slower-digesting proteins would allow for greater total amounts of protein at one time (for optimal utilization) than a whey derivative, it's safe to say?
it's an assumption, but i wouldn't say it's nessecarily safe. It makes intuitive sense but we really don't know enough about protein metabolism at this point to make a statement like that, BUT there is evidence that kind of tiptoes around that idea.

-Layne

[OxygeniX]

I thought the rate of utilization at least within the muscle was limited by the activity of BCOAD! Theoretically, could you not calculate circulating levels of BCAA / protein oxidation and uptake into the tissues (isotrope label) and based on the activity of BCOAD (biopsy) calculate utilization rates?

I know Nitro balance studies really dont make sense as they cannnot even account for where all the nitrogen is based on tracer work following a protein meal..

Layne your the expert in this area maybe you could help out?

[str8flexed]

I thought the rate of utilization at least within the muscle was limited by the activity of BCOAD! Theoretically, could you not calculate circulating levels of BCAA / protein oxidation and uptake into the tissues (isotrope label) and based on the activity of BCOAD (biopsy) calculate utilization rates?

I know Nitro balance studies really dont make sense as they cannnot even account for where all the nitrogen is based on tracer work following a protein meal..

Layne your the expert in this area maybe you could help out?
IMO to really get a good number on this you need to measure directly the endpoint of what we are trying to accomplish by eating so much protein... that is maximizing protein synthesis.

this entails 2 questions essentially

1) what is the level of protein at a meal that stimulates a peak response of protein synthesis and at what level do you not get anymore response (ie the max # you need to have per meal to maximize protein synthesis) and

2) how long does the response last? what is the duration of the synthetic response. If you add in more protein and the peak does not increase... do you get an increase in duration instead?

once we know these 2 things we can start to put an answer on 1) how much protein do you need at a meal and 2) how far in between meals can you go without more protein

Measuring these outcomes is much more difficult than most people think however and it's going to take time to get an answer.

-Layne

[Khryz]

IMO to really get a good number on this you need to measure directly the endpoint of what we are trying to accomplish by eating so much protein... that is maximizing protein synthesis.

this entails 2 questions essentially

1) what is the level of protein at a meal that stimulates a peak response of protein synthesis and at what level do you not get anymore response (ie the max # you need to have per meal to maximize protein synthesis) and

2) how long does the response last? what is the duration of the synthetic response. If you add in more protein and the peak does not increase... do you get an increase in duration instead?

once we know these 2 things we can start to put an answer on 1) how much protein do you need at a meal and 2) how far in between meals can you go without more protein

Measuring these outcomes is much more difficult than most people think however and it's going to take time to get an answer.

-Layne

Well I'll be very interested to hear what you find -- patiently too that is. :D

[doombrolly]

i take 50 grams of protien mixed in 500 ml milk usually before i go 2 sleep

[AJmuscle]

In other words, there's no harm in eating more protien than you can use?

I really want to know what "at a time" means. How long is a time? What if I eat a meal over a period of half an hour?

There is actually a harm, if your trying to cut down because excess amino acids found in the protein that are not used, are converted to fat and sugars

[str8flexed]

There is actually a harm, if your trying to cut down because excess amino acids found in the protein that are not used, are converted to fat and sugars
that's an issue of excess calories.. not really excess protein

[BuffGuy123]

each body is different... ive tookin some protien powders that was 55g of protien mixed it with milk and my body gave out couldnt digest it etc... i use 20g of pwerder and +the milk and im fine... however, i have aten meals that are over 50g of protien close to 80g and i was fine... maybe it was the powder that sucks i dunno... but ive read that the body can digest 20g of protien at a time...

[str8flexed]

how exactly do you know your body "gave out"?

[deadaim]

Simple math a good protein has, whey, egg and casein. So when it says 30g per serving its actually broken down into digestion time tables and each protein is absorbed at different times and rates.

[Big Boi 1906]

that's an issue of excess calories.. not really excess protein

Layne question,

When in a caloric deficit, is it possible to cause fat gain from any excess amount of any macronutrient?
And when in caloric surplus, do all macros cause fat gain, but at different rates?
Does protein intake have to be kept at a level relative to lean body mass for it not to be stored as adipose?
I hope these questions aren't too convoluted.

[str8flexed]

no and the second question is more complicated than you could imagine

[Undermane]

Aj muscle is right. After around 30 grams of protein a serving, the extra is stored as fat and sugars. And not your healthy fats either. It is stored as Palmitic acid (16 carbon length saturated fatty acid molecule). Granted the amount the body can consume differs from person to person, but 30 should be the limit. Unless, of coarse one is taking steroids to where more receptors for proteins are activated in the body ( hence increasing protein synthesis). Some of the comments made are ridiculous. You Can NOT eat 100 grams of protein a serving.. First off you will get sick because of the acidity, and you will get fat. That is why its best to take 6-7 meals a day with around 30 grams of protein a serving with each meal. Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.

[str8flexed]

lol, and you get this number from where? and how did you derive it?

[ironchest]

Aj muscle is right. After around 30 grams of protein a serving, the extra is stored as fat and sugars. And not your healthy fats either. It is stored as Palmitic acid (16 carbon length saturated fatty acid molecule). Granted the amount the body can consume differs from person to person, but 30 should be the limit. Unless, of coarse one is taking steroids to where more receptors for proteins are activated in the body ( hence increasing protein synthesis). Some of the comments made are ridiculous. You Can NOT eat 100 grams of protein a serving.. First off you will get sick because of the acidity, and you will get fat. That is why its best to take 6-7 meals a day with around 30 grams of protein a serving with each meal. Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.

LMAO, are you sure?

[Morbid_Mind]

Layne, what level of importance is your lab putting on hormonal levels of the test subjects for the protein experiment? Also, are the feedings done Protein only or do they contain other macro nutrients? It is my understanding that other macros (primarily carbohydrates) will slow down the digestion of proteins.

[Undermane]

Let me ask you, where did you get your conclusion from? I am looking up studies now. Most of the articles i'm reading aren't peer reviewed journals. That's why i'm not posting any links yet. I will continue to search though.
Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting, depending on ones size, genes, ect.... But they are not referenced.

And no it is said that taking in carbohydrates post workout will actually increase protein synthesis. Esp high glycemic carbs for the release of insulin will help better store proteins.

[Morbid_Mind]

And no it is said that taking in carbohydrates post workout will actually increase protein synthesis. Esp high glycemic carbs for the release of insulin will help better store proteins.

Yes, hence my question about hormone levels in the feeding subjects. If you have a fairly large amount of carbohydrates in your stomach, don't you think that's going to slow down your protein digestion? Protein digestion begins in the stomach and then continues on to the duodenum. Carbs are chiefly digested in the duodenum (after the mouth and salivary enzymes get to them that is).

[str8flexed]

Layne, what level of importance is your lab putting on hormonal levels of the test subjects for the protein experiment? Also, are the feedings done Protein only or do they contain other macro nutrients? It is my understanding that other macros (primarily carbohydrates) will slow down the digestion of proteins.
yes they do contain other macronutrients and yes you are right those have an impact... but you can critique any study and find things that are wrong with it or that don't fit what YOU think they should, but eventually you just have to pick something and go with it.

[ScrillaKeith]

Soup's On - Protein Intake in a Single Meal

CW: Here's a hot topic for you guys. People often ask me about how much protein can and should be eaten in a single muscle building meal. Although there may not be a single number given that can be applied to everyone because of the variables involved in protein metabolism (LBM, REE, T3-T4 levels, Testosterone, insulin, the list goes on and on), I'll say that based on size, a minimum of 40 grams per sitting should work well for everyone. It's important that people know that those amino acids do a heck of a lot more than build muscle. You need them to form a lot of various hormones and neurotransmitters, as well as other important constituents in the human body.

A maximum protein intake is much harder to estimate. In the real world, many guys consume amounts in the 60 to 90 gram range. By in large, these same men have all been successful in their bodybuilding efforts. Another thing to consider is the role that timing plays in how much you should consume in one sitting. Obviously, you should consume the largest amounts when rising and before going to bed. I feel you should also increase the amount of protein directly following a workout. Okay, what do you guys think?

JB: I agree completely on this point. Actually, this topic has been debated in the absence of data for far too long. Just to let you all in on a little secret, I'm aware of a research protocol being designed right now to investigate this very question! Pretty soon we should have some data that will tell us just how much protein can be absorbed in a single sitting. Exciting, right Lonnie? So Lonnie, to go one step further with this question, do you know of any good "adjunct" nutrients that may actually help us digest and metabolize even higher levels of daily or "per meal" protein intake?

LL: There's been talk of using bromelain and papain enzymes from pineapples and papaya, respectively, to increase protein digestion. The truth is, digestion of many proteins already averages above 90%, so I doubt they'll help much in this regard. I will say that when consuming powdered proteins, I personally try to double the fluid volume that most supplement labels recommend. This helps to keep me from continually "assaulting the porcelain," if you know what I mean. Nobody's going to grow with a thick, osmotic nightmare of nutrients dragging out their backside. I also try to eat some solid food with reconstituted protein drinks and MRPs for similar reasons.


Just a little tidbit from an article on John Berardi's site. I don't really know why people are so concerned about "wasting" protein anyways, but knowledge is power so read up. :D

[ScrillaKeith]

Aj muscle is right. After around 30 grams of protein a serving, the extra is stored as fat and sugars. And not your healthy fats either. It is stored as Palmitic acid (16 carbon length saturated fatty acid molecule). Granted the amount the body can consume differs from person to person, but 30 should be the limit. Unless, of coarse one is taking steroids to where more receptors for proteins are activated in the body ( hence increasing protein synthesis). Some of the comments made are ridiculous. You Can NOT eat 100 grams of protein a serving.. First off you will get sick because of the acidity, and you will get fat. That is why its best to take 6-7 meals a day with around 30 grams of protein a serving with each meal. Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.

Well obviously! :rolleyes:

[Big Boi 1906]

no and the second question is more complicated than you could imagine

But whether in caloric surplus or deficit, the amount of macros affect body composition?

So as excessive protein intake would cause less fat gain or poor body comp then carbs or fat?
Whereas fat in caloric surplus would be stored directly as adipose but carbs would have a somewhat thermogenic effect even in caloric surplus?

[IronManXXX]

I am 183 pounds and I can have 37.8494837 grams of protein an hour before my body gives out....jk

[str8flexed]

But whether in caloric surplus or deficit, the amount of macros affect body composition?

So as excessive protein intake would cause less fat gain or poor body comp then carbs or fat?
Whereas fat in caloric surplus would be stored directly as adipose but carbs would have a somewhat thermogenic effect even in caloric surplus?
short answer? yes

[Khryz]

Aj muscle is right. After around 30 grams of protein a serving, the extra is stored as fat and sugars. And not your healthy fats either. It is stored as Palmitic acid (16 carbon length saturated fatty acid molecule). Granted the amount the body can consume differs from person to person, but 30 should be the limit. Unless, of coarse one is taking steroids to where more receptors for proteins are activated in the body ( hence increasing protein synthesis). Some of the comments made are ridiculous. You Can NOT eat 100 grams of protein a serving.. First off you will get sick because of the acidity, and you will get fat. That is why its best to take 6-7 meals a day with around 30 grams of protein a serving with each meal. Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.

Damn straight! Like your entire post.

[Undermane]

Khryz... Good one.. What in my post is ridiculous? I would like to know.
I don't see any insight posted by you buddy.

[Morbid_Mind]

yes they do contain other macronutrients and yes you are right those have an impact... but you can critique any study and find things that are wrong with it or that don't fit what YOU think they should, but eventually you just have to pick something and go with it.

Okay thanks. Not trying to critique your experiment by any means, just wondering.

[str8flexed]

yup i know, trust me i slaved over thinking what variables to adjust & what not and how exactly i'd want to run it... eventually i just had to pick some numbers and go with them.

-Layne

[Khryz]

Khryz... Good one.. What in my post is ridiculous? I would like to know.
I don't see any insight posted by you buddy.

'K, let's break it apart with the best of my knowledge...



Aj muscle is right. After around 30 grams of protein a serving, the extra is stored as fat and sugars. And not your healthy fats either. It is stored as Palmitic acid (16 carbon length saturated fatty acid molecule). Granted the amount the body can consume differs from person to person, but 30 should be the limit.

Where is your evidence that 30 grams is the magic number of maximal absorbtion? If it was then wouldn't you think more people would be aware of this by now? You're right that it does differ from person to person, but claiming that 30 is the magic number for everyone isn't correct. It depends on a persons genetics, years training, physical fitness, etc. Even though there most likely is a cut-off point for most people, I think it's much much higher than people think or than most people can consume at once.


Unless, of coarse one is taking steroids to where more receptors for proteins are activated in the body ( hence increasing protein synthesis). Some of the comments made are ridiculous. You Can NOT eat 100 grams of protein a serving.. First off you will get sick because of the acidity, and you will get fat. That is why its best to take 6-7 meals a day with around 30 grams of protein a serving with each meal.

What makes you certain that you can't "eat" (I'm guessing you mean digest) 100 grams at a sitting? I know for a fact that most top level bodybuilders, athletes, powerlifters, and olympic lifters would be unable to meet their protein requirements if they were only allowed 30g at a sitting. They would have to eat anywhere from 10 to 20 meals a day. And since there has been evidance according to IA and DC that excessive protein intake is a requirement for continuous growth (which has been displayed as true through their trainees), none of them get fat. They should though right according to you? Acidity yes, that is why you drink water. Again, you emphasizing that nobody can eat "x" amount is wrong because do you personally know that and can say that with 100% certainty through years or experience and scienfitic trials (like the one Layne is developing)? Maybe you are, if so then my mistake but I would love to see the result. Fact is that many people are taking in excessive protein amounts at each meal with great results who are natural.


Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.

No, that's why it's called a 'serving'. Just like 3 cookies is a serving but who really eats just that. It's the scooper that determines the serving for protein powder and you can buy bigger scoopers for protein powders so that doesn't mean anything. And most protein powders these days recommend you use 2 scoops per drink, 3x a day (50-60g).

[TommyQ29]

Isn't this the same as the Gallon of Milk Test? It's impossible to drink a gallon of milk (2% or higher) in one hour. The body rejects it and you puke. Will one of you know it alls please explain this to me!haha

[tjoe]

Some people are saying that 30g is the magic number. That's like saying If you bench 315 for 8 you're all set and that's all you need to do. It is ridiculous! Whether it be training or nutrition, your body will adapt. Ask Layne or Ronnie or Jay or who-ever if they are still eating the same as when they started. I'm sure the diet has evolved as much as the training (except Ronnies training, been doing the same thing for years... but, he is a mutant). If you could do the same thing all the time Layne wouldn't have any more research to do. He could just wake up, repeat yesterday and everything would just keep progressing. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

I also read a post that said you could not eat 100g of pro because you would get sick. Funny, I've been to the Texas Roadhouse where everyone at the table got a 24oz. sirloin... or Bigger! Nobody got sick.

Your body is different than mine. Mine is different than Laynes and I'm pretty damn sure his is different than Big Rons. Experiment and see what works for you.

[Undermane]

OK first off.

"I am looking up studies now. Most of the articles i'm reading aren't peer reviewed journals. That's why i'm not posting any links yet. I will continue to search though.
Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting, depending on ones size, genes, ect...."
This is what i told str8 flexed when he asked me the same thing. And i NEVER said anything about maximal absorption. I said around 30 grams. You quote me and you don't even type it right.


2nd) No i don't think more people would be aware. Are you aware of the number our bodies can take in? Probably not. Either am I. That is just the gold standard i have been taught in college. In my nutrition classes (inorganic, organic and sports nutrition). I am an exercise science major. I don't make things up. What i mean by standard is average. Yes there are bodybuilders and olympic athletes that can take in more, but that makes up what .01% of the population. If you took in for example 30 grams of protein a meal for 7 meals. Thats 210 grams of protein/day. For the average male, i blieve the average weight of a male now is somewhere around 180? I'm not positive. But that would be around 1.15 grams/protein/day. More than plenty for the average male. The average male should consume approx 0.8 g/protein/day.


3rd) You can not compare serving size of oreos and protein shakes. Why do you think isopure advertises 50grams of protein a serving? Because the average joe believes "The more the better". Anything in excess is not good. The oreo serving size is smaller because if it had 6-8 cookies on there, the fat content and sugar content would be ridiculous. Its called and marketing scheme .. For example 1%milk. People believe the 1% indicates 99 percent fat free. Which is not the case/

[Morbid_Mind]

That is just the gold standard i have been taught in college. In my nutrition classes (inorganic, organic and sports nutrition). I am an exercise science major. I don't make things up. What i mean by standard is average.

What factors are you and your books taking into considerationg when arriving at this number?

[Need2ShapeUp]

Isn't this the same as the Gallon of Milk Test? It's impossible to drink a gallon of milk (2% or higher) in one hour. The body rejects it and you puke. Will one of you know it alls please explain this to me!haha

Is this supposed to be for real? I've done a gallon of milk in an hour dozens of time. No puke yet.

[tjoe]

Average this and average that. Who here would be considered average??Most people on these boards (I hope), train way more often and harder than "average". The science in text books is often decades BEHIND common bodybuilding knowledge. It took a good decade before "they" agreed that creatine has benefits and is side effect free. In the golden era of bodybuilding it was also common knowledge that 5-7 small meals were better than the 3 squares. Atkins is fantastic for sedentary people who don't need carbs to train hard, but try that with a bodybuilder or even a fitness "enthusiast". Much of what you read and learn in text books and classes are meant to keep you on the "safe" side of everything. That however dosen't really apply to the population you are adressing (this board). We eat cleaner (hopefully), train harder, and care more about performance than the "average" population.

I am not a huge Dexter Jackson fan but he proves a good point on this topic. His pro intake is between 500-600 grams per day! Has been for years. Even considering his chemical enhancements, this is a huge amount. Before training for his last Arnold victory even his own doctor could not believe how "healthy" he was (more so than any of us I'm sure). A rare example but true none the less.

[Khryz]

OK first off.

"I am looking up studies now. Most of the articles i'm reading aren't peer reviewed journals. That's why i'm not posting any links yet. I will continue to search though.
Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting, depending on ones size, genes, ect...."
This is what i told str8 flexed when he asked me the same thing. And i NEVER said anything about maximal absorption. I said around 30 grams. You quote me and you don't even type it right.

I don't want this thread to turn into a pissing match. All I said is that I don't see how you can just come up with a number out of nowhere.


2nd) No i don't think more people would be aware. Are you aware of the number our bodies can take in? Probably not. Either am I. That is just the gold standard i have been taught in college. In my nutrition classes (inorganic, organic and sports nutrition). I am an exercise science major. I don't make things up. What i mean by standard is average. Yes there are bodybuilders and olympic athletes that can take in more, but that makes up what .01% of the population. If you took in for example 30 grams of protein a meal for 7 meals. Thats 210 grams of protein/day. For the average male, i blieve the average weight of a male now is somewhere around 180? I'm not positive. But that would be around 1.15 grams/protein/day. More than plenty for the average male. The average male should consume approx 0.8 g/protein/day.

Once again, I don't know of the number because there is no set number for everyone, since everyone's different. There might be a set number for our own bodies but it might be awhile for someone finds out. And in my opinion, I would rather consume too much protein and meet maximum absorbtion than not enough.

And no offense, but I wouldn't take much of what most college professors think or say about weight lifting requirements. Again, there's no proof here but according to top level trainers people underestimate truly how much protein is needed to repair and replenish all the bodies energy systems and muscle tissue after intense exercise and then optop of that use more for growth. If a person is genetically gifted they won't need as much protein since their bodies don't breakdown protein/muscle tissue as much as the common Joe. You saying the "average" male should consume 0.8g/lb of bw sounds like a dietician or nutritionist who has no idea of the true protein requirements for intense athletes. And a persons protein requirements go up as they gain weight and add muscle so your 180-pound person example doesn't fit unless he never gains/loses weight again.

The results from all the athletes I've listed above that take in what most college professors, dieticians and nutritionists would claim would be overkill is proof enough, since there's plenty of bad advice and false or opinionated information out there on the internet and in books today (yes even college textbooks). There you go again, giving numbers - saying only 0.01% of the lifting population can digest more than 30g of protein per meal. How do you know? Again, I'm sorry but I guess I turned this thread around a little but I just don't take well to people that spout "facts" about stuff they read somewhere and take it as a "gold standard."


3rd) You can not compare serving size of oreos and protein shakes. Why do you think isopure advertises 50grams of protein a serving? Because the average joe believes "The more the better". Anything in excess is not good. The oreo serving size is smaller because if it had 6-8 cookies on there, the fat content and sugar content would be ridiculous. Its called and marketing scheme .. For example 1%milk. People believe the 1% indicates 99 percent fat free. Which is not the case/

You're totally right but off-topic. I just said that I highly doubt that the protein companies know the exact absorbtion amount for everyone's human body (who differ greatly) and that every single protein scooper out there is perfectly matched for that ... with milk too like you said.

In the end, I'm speaking from experience of my own and reading the journals and words of those that have been training for years and stating results while you are stating "facts" that aren't backed with evidence or results. If you want my backing head over to Intens************ or Ironaddicts.com/forum and state that the body can't absorb more than 30g per meal and see what happens.

[C-24]

In other words, there's no harm in eating more protien than you can use?

I really want to know what "at a time" means. How long is a time? What if I eat a meal over a period of half an hour?


Of course there's a harm ! If your body don't assimilate it , where do the protein goes ?
Through kidneys...
You mustn't take more than what your body can absorb, that's it.

[Khryz]

That's why you drink water to compensate. 1-2 gallons a day on a high protein diet, also keeps your muscle cells hydrated since protein dehydrates you - and dehydrated muscles are unhappy muscles. Which is also why creatine/taurine/cell-volumizers are popular.

[str8flexed]

Of course there's a harm ! If your body don't assimilate it , where do the protein goes ?
Through kidneys...
You mustn't take more than what your body can absorb, that's it.
my god... if you don't know what you are talking about... don't open your mouth

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne38.htm

fully referenced

[tjoe]

Of course there's a harm ! If your body don't assimilate it , where do the protein goes ?
Through kidneys...
You mustn't take more than what your body can absorb, that's it

WHAT!?

Problem is you have NO idea how much your body CAN absorb!! It is obviously MUCH MORE than you could imagine, or bodybuilders all over the place would be lining up for kidney transplants... and that just isn't happening!
If you already have a PRE-existing kidney problem or only have one, then yes you should be VERY careful. However, assuming both kidneys are healthy and you drink your WATER and eat your VEGGIES (which help digestion) you CAN consume more than the mystical 30g per serving. The harder you train... the more you need. The bigger you are... the more you need. The lower your carbs and fat... the more you need to make up for the caloric difference (like dieting for a contest).
Do a little test in the gym or feild or where-ever. Find the monsters, the big strong freaks, the guy that crawls out from under the bench with more weight than you squat and ask THEM (not your all knowing doctor or professor) how much they take in at a time or in a day. THEN go ask your doctor or professor how much they bench, what they weigh, 40 yard time or how they built that 20+ inch arm on 30g of pro at every meal. Let me know what you find out. I'm gonna go eat a can of tuna... OH sh*t, wait. That has 40 grams in it... I better just have half and save the rest for later...

khryz and Layne - Wish I had your patience...

[str8flexed]

point is your kidneys are fully capable of handling excess protein... just like they handle excess calcium, sodium, potassium, etc.

You know, why is it people feel the need to comment on subjects they just have no knowledge of? Hell I don't know **** about politics... so i keep my damned mouth closed.

[Squats]

People need to realize they need to drink 1 gallon for 1g of protein per lb. of bodyweight to be safe. Same thing with 2g of protein per lb. of bodyweight you need 2 gallons of water.

Anyway, 30g is a random number. It depends on genetics what you can digest or whatever. Some can handle 50g all the way down to 20g.

Extra protein isn't bad and only results into more gains which apparently you pussis don't want cause you're scared or poor or something.

If you can afford internet, you can afford high protein, drop the internet.

[Undermane]

OK.

1. Let's get off the number 30. The person who started this thread said the exact number. I said around 30 and "Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting." My exact words. So stop it with the 30. Its a generalization number. You want me to say 34? Because thats the median of the two.

2. Squats you are out of line and completely wrong. If you were to take in 1 gallon of water/1 gallon of protein in a 1:1 ratio you would most definitely die from hyponatremia. If you don't know what that is, which you prolly don't post somewhere else. I don't care how much protein you eat. There is no way someone can take in the amount of water you are referring to.

3. Too much protein can result in osteoporosis (calcium tends to be excreted in the urine with high protein intake) and kidney stones. If one was cutting, they would not want to go way over the limit of consuming excess protein, for like i stated before, "it through certain pathways" (i dont wanna get into the whole krebs cycle) can be stored as palmitic acid. NOT A GOOD THING. That is the same chemical that is created when excess carbohydrates are consumed as well.

4. Uric acid stones. These stones are formed of uric acid, a byproduct of protein metabolism. You're more likely to develop uric acid stones if you've undergone chemotherapy, YOU EAT A HIGH PROTEIN DIET or you have certain genetic factors that predispose you to the condition.

5. What's more, studies show that an overall diet low in salt and very low in animal protein can greatly reduce your chance of developing kidney stones.
-Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved. A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.com," "Mayo Clinic Health Information," "Reliable information for a healthier life" and the triple-shield Mayo logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research.

[tjoe]

Lets not say 34. I'm sure most "bodybuilders" are closer to 50g per sitting.

Squats is not wrong. He said 1 gallon per 1g/lb of bodyweight. Not 1 gallon per 1 pound. Read first, post second. He meant if you are @ 1g of pro per 1lb/bodyweight you should drink 1 gallon per day. If you are consuming 2g of pro per 1lb/bodyweight you should drink 2 gallons per day.

Again, look at the population you are reffering to. Bodybuilders. Muscle, made of pro. Basic rule. Again with Dex, if he ate the typical 6 meals, he would be at 100g per meal. Why isn't he dead? Yes he is chemically alterted, but 100 is still a huge difference from your 34 or 42 or whatever you wanna call it.

[Khryz]

2. Squats you are out of line and completely wrong. If you were to take in 1 gallon of water/1 gallon of protein in a 1:1 ratio you would most definitely die from hyponatremia. If you don't know what that is, which you prolly don't post somewhere else. I don't care how much protein you eat. There is no way someone can take in the amount of water you are referring to.

Then I, and probably most of the people on this board, should have been dead long ago from drinking 1-2+ gallons of water a day.

[Undermane]

OK. I misread that. I don't believe 1gallon would be enough water for me in one day. Considering I weigh 250lbs and would take in 250lbs of protein a day.

Ok yes 50 is a better number for bodybuilders, but let explain about to this comment.

"Again, look at the population you are reffering to. Bodybuilders. Muscle, made of pro. Basic rule. Again with Dex, if he ate the typical 6 meals, he would be at 100g per meal. Why isn't he dead? Yes he is chemically alterted, but 100 is still a huge difference from your 34 or 42 or whatever you wanna call it."

You and i both know that bodybuilders are not extremely lean 12 months of the year. They are more of a bulky look during most of their training. It is just before competition that they "dry out" with dieretics, clen/winny or var and eat "very clean." They overdue it with the protein during their training to put on mass. They eat alot of everything! Also, for a 300+lb male eating 100g of protein a day is like a 150lb male consuming 50g/protein a sitting. Still a little over what the body can handle, but it makes sense. Also, when you take into account the amount of receptors for the proteins that will be activated due to "chemicals", it seems fitting for them to consume that amount.

[Morbid_Mind]

2. Squats you are out of line and completely wrong. If you were to take in 1 gallon of water/1 gallon of protein in a 1:1 ratio you would most definitely die from hyponatremia.

LMAO, you really don't know what you're talking about. They teach you some big words in school and now you feel like a big shot.
1 gallon of water a day is no where near enough to push you into hyponatremia. Hyponatremia occurs when the body is not getting enough electrolytes and is getting too much water. This typically occurs when someone is drinking large quantities of water and is unable to eat (i.e. marathon, triathalon, etc....). A bodybuilder eating every couple of hours has no reason to worry about hyponatremia unless they're drinking absurd quanties of water and are severely sodium resticted.


If one was cutting, they would not want to go way over the limit of consuming excess protein

Where in the world are you getting this from?

[Squats]

Thanks for the support brothers.

Bottom line, if you wanna gain, eat extreme protein, but be smart and use the right precausions.

[Big Boi 1906]

point is your kidneys are fully capable of handling excess protein... just like they handle excess calcium, sodium, potassium, etc.

You know, why is it people feel the need to comment on subjects they just have no knowledge of? Hell I don't know **** about politics... so i keep my damned mouth closed.


Layne,

Are u familiar with John Berardi food separation?

Do u know of any valid studies talking about food separation and how it is best applied, whether in caloric deficit or surplus? I read something one time where it was said that the food separation concept is more effective in caloric surplus than in deficit. Could I get your opinion on this Layne.

[novax]

After I do a very hard workout, I take a **** load of protein.

I drink a shake that has atleast 30g of whey. Then I eat a meal that has about 30 to 35 grams of protein.

Then less then 30 min to 1.5 hour later, I take a 40 grams of ultra slow release night time protein shake before I go to bed.

Now that is a **** load of protein!!! About 100 grams or more.

[hvit]

OK.

1. Let's get off the number 30. The person who started this thread said the exact number. I said around 30 and "Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting." My exact words. So stop it with the 30. Its a generalization number. You want me to say 34? Because thats the median of the two.

2. Squats you are out of line and completely wrong. If you were to take in 1 gallon of water/1 gallon of protein in a 1:1 ratio you would most definitely die from hyponatremia. If you don't know what that is, which you prolly don't post somewhere else. I don't care how much protein you eat. There is no way someone can take in the amount of water you are referring to.

3. Too much protein can result in osteoporosis (calcium tends to be excreted in the urine with high protein intake) and kidney stones. If one was cutting, they would not want to go way over the limit of consuming excess protein, for like i stated before, "it through certain pathways" (i dont wanna get into the whole krebs cycle) can be stored as palmitic acid. NOT A GOOD THING. That is the same chemical that is created when excess carbohydrates are consumed as well.

4. Uric acid stones. These stones are formed of uric acid, a byproduct of protein metabolism. You're more likely to develop uric acid stones if you've undergone chemotherapy, YOU EAT A HIGH PROTEIN DIET or you have certain genetic factors that predispose you to the condition.

5. What's more, studies show that an overall diet low in salt and very low in animal protein can greatly reduce your chance of developing kidney stones.
-Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved. A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.com," "Mayo Clinic Health Information," "Reliable information for a healthier life" and the triple-shield Mayo logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research.

Dude, read the link that Layne posted in this thread.

[Big Boi 1906]

I tend to listen to people like Layne. You know, the dudes who actually live and do these things we all talk about.
I don't listen to fitness cardio dudes who talk about how bad eating more than 40 grams of protein a day is for your liver.
Yeah, theres alot of foods bad for your liver, so I think I'll go with the protein.

[str8flexed]

OK.

1. Let's get off the number 30. The person who started this thread said the exact number. I said around 30 and "Most of the articles i am reading indicate anywhere from 26-42 grams of protein in one sitting." My exact words. So stop it with the 30. Its a generalization number. You want me to say 34? Because thats the median of the two.

2. Squats you are out of line and completely wrong. If you were to take in 1 gallon of water/1 gallon of protein in a 1:1 ratio you would most definitely die from hyponatremia. If you don't know what that is, which you prolly don't post somewhere else. I don't care how much protein you eat. There is no way someone can take in the amount of water you are referring to.

3. Too much protein can result in osteoporosis (calcium tends to be excreted in the urine with high protein intake) and kidney stones. If one was cutting, they would not want to go way over the limit of consuming excess protein, for like i stated before, "it through certain pathways" (i dont wanna get into the whole krebs cycle) can be stored as palmitic acid. NOT A GOOD THING. That is the same chemical that is created when excess carbohydrates are consumed as well.

4. Uric acid stones. These stones are formed of uric acid, a byproduct of protein metabolism. You're more likely to develop uric acid stones if you've undergone chemotherapy, YOU EAT A HIGH PROTEIN DIET or you have certain genetic factors that predispose you to the condition.

5. What's more, studies show that an overall diet low in salt and very low in animal protein can greatly reduce your chance of developing kidney stones.
-Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research (MFMER). All rights reserved. A single copy of these materials may be reprinted for noncommercial personal use only. "Mayo," "Mayo Clinic," "MayoClinic.com," "Mayo Clinic Health Information," "Reliable information for a healthier life" and the triple-shield Mayo logo are trademarks of Mayo Foundation for Medical Education and Research.


quite obviously you did not read the link i posted.

[X-Manifest]

Is there a diff between whey and whey isolate? which would ON 100% be?

[Benji Snap]

I ate a whole BBQ chicken last night when I got home from the gym so I better be able to absorb more than 30g.

[X-Manifest]

nice going.....im addicted to that bird!

[Undermane]

That is a very good link and well referenced. I'm not stubborn I'll admit when someone is right. But you have to admit there is some contradicting evidence against it. But those references are legit and not done on rats, but athletes and humans of all ages. Hell i'm young. I like learning about these things. I'm glad we had this thread. You learn something new everyday. One of the main reasons i argued the protein not being healthy is because my grandfather is on dialysis and he has to eat a low protein diet, but i'm guessing if you already have an illness with the kidneys, then you should try not to consume too much protein. Thanks for your input str8flexed.

Morbid mind.
We have already established that excess protein is converted to fat. If you read other posts already you would know that. Also, i already said i misread that link.

"LMAO, you really don't know what you're talking about. They teach you some big words in school and now you feel like a big shot. "

Ha i like that. That's a good one. I am not even going to argue that one. B/cuz you got me there. lol.

Benji
I love the ignorance. No idea what your talking about.

"I ate a whole BBQ chicken last night when I got home from the gym so I better be able to absorb more than 30g."

I'm benji, lemme crack a joke to try to get some laughs in a bodybuilding forum. Are you kidding me? Yo man you deserve reps for that one.

[hvit]

Is there a diff between whey and whey isolate? which would ON 100% be?

There is a difference between Whey Protein Isolate and Whey Protein Concentrate if that's what you are asking. Isolates are just a more "pure" protein, less carbohydrates and fats, I don't personally see any need for them unless you are lactose intolerant or get digestive issues with WPC.

Since ON has a proprietary blend, you can't really tell. But knowing that it's pretty cheap, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the majority of protein in it is Whey Protein Concentrate...there isn't anything wrong with that, though.

[Big Boi 1906]

That is a very good link and well referenced. I'm not stubborn I'll admit when someone is right. But you have to admit there is some contradicting evidence against it. But those references are legit and not done on rats, but athletes and humans of all ages. Hell i'm young. I like learning about these things. I'm glad we had this thread. You learn something new everyday. One of the main reasons i argued the protein not being healthy is because my grandfather is on dialysis and he has to eat a low protein diet, but i'm guessing if you already have an illness with the kidneys, then you should try not to consume too much protein. Thanks for your input str8flexed.

Morbid mind.
We have already established that excess protein is converted to fat. If you read other posts already you would know that. Also, i already said i misread that link.

"LMAO, you really don't know what you're talking about. They teach you some big words in school and now you feel like a big shot. "

Ha i like that. That's a good one. I am not even going to argue that one. B/cuz you got me there. lol.

Benji
I love the ignorance. No idea what your talking about.

"I ate a whole BBQ chicken last night when I got home from the gym so I better be able to absorb more than 30g."

I'm benji, lemme crack a joke to try to get some laughs in a bodybuilding forum. Are you kidding me? Yo man you deserve reps for that one.

But does excess protein turn into fat in a Caloric Deficit?

[whitedevil74]

You know, why is it people feel the need to comment on subjects they just have no knowledge of? Hell I don't know **** about politics... so i keep my damned mouth closed.


Knowing politics is the duty of every American Citizen. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance. j/k. Layne you are a smart guy, you can comment on anyhting you want.

[Undermane]

Big Boi 1906

Yes if you decide to just eat protein and not carbs of fat. Protein can be converted into fat through the krebs cycle.
"The human body can do three things with protein calories, put protein in fat stores, use it as an energy source or use it to carry out functions vital to life. Protein calories will be used as an energy source when the body is lacking fat or carbohydrate calories for fuel." I took this right off of.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/changingshape5.htm

[Morbid_Mind]

But does excess protein turn into fat in a Caloric Deficit?

Hasn't this question been answered like 5 times already?

[Newbtime]

Also, why do you think they top notch protein powders mostly contain around 23 grams??? Because added with milk it equals to around 30 grams of protein. It's not rocket science fellas.
You are an idiot please stop talking.

#1 one cup of milk=8 g protein.
#2 you take it with two cups of milk

=39 g protein

You just proved yourself wrong now please hush up.

[str8flexed]

But does excess protein turn into fat in a Caloric Deficit?
YOU WON'T GAIN FAT IN A CALORIC DEFICIT... PERIOD

[Newbtime]

Do a little test in the gym or feild or where-ever. Find the monsters, the big strong freaks, the guy that crawls out from under the bench with more weight than you squat and ask THEM (not your all knowing doctor or professor) how much they take in at a time or in a day. THEN go ask your doctor or professor how much they bench, what they weigh, 40 yard time or how they built that 20+ inch arm on 30g of pro at every meal. Let me know what you find out. I'm gonna go eat a can of tuna... OH sh*t, wait. That has 40 grams in it... I better just have half and save the rest for later...

Thats only cause they are on cell tech. :eek:








:D










so how much protein do you eat a meal? :D

[tjoe]

YOU WON'T GAIN FAT IN A CALORIC DEFICIT... PERIOD

Is it me, or is this painfully obvious. Deficit = lack of = insufficient, you won't be gaining anything nevermind fat. If you don't trust anyone, go eat 300g of pro a day and nothing else. See how your body reacts to the 1200 calories a day(deficit) and the supposed "overload" of pro.

[tjoe]

My pro per meal varies. Sometimes a can of tuna(40). Sometimes 8-10 oz of ground meat(apx 64-80). On occasion a delicious 24oz Sirloin from the Texas Roadhouse(probably just under 200!!)

[Khryz]

My pro per meal varies. Sometimes a can of tuna(40). Sometimes 8-10 oz of ground meat(apx 64-80). On occasion a delicious 24oz Sirloin from the Texas Roadhouse(probably just under 200!!)

Lol oh man! I hope you're eating that 24oz monster with two sides of fibrous vegetables for digestion!

[tjoe]

LOL, usually a small ceasar salad(I know, fatty dressing) and a side of broccli hold the butter bath.

[Undermane]

str8flexed.. You are right, you won't get fat in a caloric deficit, you will loose weight. High protein is the best way to go.

http://www.gohealth.org/hopkinsabstract.pdf
Big Boi
Heres a peer reviewed article on the topic. They use a high protein low fat, low sugar, high fiber diet. Medifast the diet is i believe.


Old Man...
I'm not even going to repeat myself about that. Go to another forum. Why would you call someone an idiot in this forum. It's only gonna stir up an argument between me and you. Callin names over the internet. Are you kidding me. I would love to see you say it to my face, but that's not a possiblity so keep saying negative comments and hide behind your computer buddy.

[X-Manifest]

Waaaay too much ego here....then again what do you expect on a bb forum. Im not taking sides here but things like...'bet you wouldnt say that to my face man'....just sound recidulous. Keep the peace guys.

[Benji Snap]

Benji
I love the ignorance. No idea what your talking about.

"I ate a whole BBQ chicken last night when I got home from the gym so I better be able to absorb more than 30g."

I'm benji, lemme crack a joke to try to get some laughs in a bodybuilding forum. Are you kidding me? Yo man you deserve reps for that one.

What r u talking about ? I really did eat a whole BBQ chicken when i got home from the gym.. im not joking.

[michaeljay44]

What r u talking about ? I really did eat a whole BBQ chicken when i got home from the gym.. im not joking.

i was completely confused about that as well... really doesn't seem ridiculous to eat that much chicken at all when you're super hungry after the gym

[X-Manifest]

Yeah it confused me too (and probably everyone else)....the only thing i found wrong with your statement Benji ...was that it should have been a whole PERI PERI chicken not BBQ :)

[Monday]

little extra > not enough

[Morbid_Mind]

str8flexed.. You are right, you won't get fat in a caloric deficit, you will loose weight. High protein is the best way to go.

You said before that "when cutting you shouldn't have too much protein" (I'm paraphrasing). You can't even keep your story straight.

[Big Boi 1906]

Is it me, or is this painfully obvious. Deficit = lack of = insufficient, you won't be gaining anything nevermind fat. If you don't trust anyone, go eat 300g of pro a day and nothing else. See how your body reacts to the 1200 calories a day(deficit) and the supposed "overload" of pro.


Hey bud, just asking a question.

So how does the "calorie is not just a calorie argument" apply?

[Big Boi 1906]

str8flexed.. You are right, you won't get fat in a caloric deficit, you will loose weight. High protein is the best way to go.

http://www.gohealth.org/hopkinsabstract.pdf
Big Boi
Heres a peer reviewed article on the topic. They use a high protein low fat, low sugar, high fiber diet. Medifast the diet is i believe.


Old Man...
I'm not even going to repeat myself about that. Go to another forum. Why would you call someone an idiot in this forum. It's only gonna stir up an argument between me and you. Callin names over the internet. Are you kidding me. I would love to see you say it to my face, but that's not a possiblity so keep saying negative comments and hide behind your computer buddy.

Undermane,
Do u have any studies explaining how nutrients are used in a caloric deficit v.s. in a caloric surplus and how this relates to body composition?

[tjoe]

Not sure what you mean.

[str8flexed]

please read: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/83/6/1442

[Undermane]

Mobid,
Yes i did, but I wasn't talking about being in a caloric deficit.

[Morbid_Mind]

Mobid,
Yes i did, but I wasn't talking about being in a caloric deficit.

I didn't know there was any other way to cut besides being in a caloric deficit.

[Undermane]

Morbid,
Wow way to dwell on every word. Well i guess i have to be really specific for you. When the question was asked about a caloric deficit he referred to

tjoe:
"Is it me, or is this painfully obvious. Deficit = lack of = insufficient, you won't be gaining anything nevermind fat. If you don't trust anyone, go eat 300g of pro a day and nothing else. See how your body reacts to the 1200 calories a day(deficit) and the supposed "overload" of pro."

This is what i was referring to when i said you will not get fat. Like the link I posted where it was medifast's diet with the high protein high fiber very low carbs and fat.

When i said don't overdue the protein on "cutting" cycles i was referring to for example 40/40/20 pro/carbs/fat. Say 2,200kcal/day. You overdue the protein and like it was stated before it will be broken down into fat and carbs/sugars and you already have enough of fat and carbs in your "cutting" diet. Remember a calorie is not a calorie.

The quote at the top had him eating protein any nothing else. I'm going to be realistic and say 70/20/10 maybe even 80/10/10. pro/carbs/fat. Say 2,000kcal/day. First off in this ration you won't be taking in as many calories because protein is less than half the amount of calories per gram as fat is. The fat intake in these 2 ratios are half of what is up top. In those diets if you take in excess protein and if it is converted to fat or carbs via krebs cycle, it will not hurt you at all. For you don't have alot of it in your diet as it is.

[Undermane]

Morbid, You can also cut by taking in the same amount of calories and increasing your physical activity. Caloric output>caloric input. Does NOT mean you are mean you are in a caloric deficit.

So your wrong.

[Morbid_Mind]

Morbid, You can also cut by taking in the same amount of calories and increasing your physical activity. Caloric output>caloric input. Does NOT mean you are mean you are in a caloric deficit.

Yes it does. Do you even have a rudimentary grasp of bodybuilding and nutrition? If you're expending more calories than you're eating you're in a deficit. If you're expending less calories than you're eating you're in a surplus. I can't believe you're going to school for this. What clown college are you going to? You should ask for your money back, because you don't know dick. Reading your posts is a freaking headache of contradiction, misinformation and ignorance. Just quit posting in this thread until you learn something.

[dunk]

I guess it's a good thing I only weigh 185lbs so I can eat my 6 meals and have maximum uptake.

[JVoHs22]

Jay Cutler wakes up every few hours just to eat
this is true

right now my workout program requires me to consume 1.5 - 2 grams of protein per pound of weight. I eat 50 grams of protein at a time, but my body uses it. every 3 hours i eat, so thats 6 meals a day, and 75g comes from protein shakes

Joe Weiders mag FLEX says the body can consume up to 50g at any given time

not sure if hes right, but thats how my body works

And how do you know your body is using all of the 50 grams of protein?

[Undermane]

OMG morbid. Do i have to be exact with you all the time. This is the last time.

When tjoe
Is it me, or is this painfully obvious. Deficit = lack of = insufficient, you won't be gaining anything nevermind fat. If you don't trust anyone, go eat 300g of pro a day and nothing else. See how your body reacts to the 1200 calories a day(deficit) and the supposed "overload" of pro.

That is a caloric deficit through dieting. Just from eating. Makes no mention of exercise. You have a way of twisting things. OK now . Listen.

When i said don't overdue the protein on "cutting" cycles i was referring to for example 40/40/20 pro/carbs/fat. Say 2,200kcal/day. You overdue the protein and like it was stated before it will be broken down into fat and carbs/sugars and you already have enough of fat and carbs in your "cutting" diet. Remember a calorie is not a calorie.

I used 2,200 kcal/day for an average maintanance for a person. I hate using a number as an example and getting ripped apart for it, but ok. Anyway, say for EXAMPLE, 2,200 is how many calories a person needs to maintain their size, they continue to eat 2,200kcal a day. OK so they are not in a caloric deficit through dieting. But, now add physical activity (weightlifting and cardio) into the mix and there is another way to be in a caloric deficit than just not eating as much. That is what i meant to say. I guess i see why i get scrutuny from it. It's kinda of hard to be exact on this board. I'm better at talking about it. Also, don't insult my crudentials. I know more than you will ever know.

[Morbid_Mind]

OMG morbid. Do i have to be exact with you all the time.

No, just coherent. Learn to use the quote function.


Also, don't insult my crudentials. I know more than you will ever know.

Obviously not if you're getting a new ass-hole torn into you by poster after poster.

[Undermane]

"Obviously not if you're getting a new ass-hole torn into you by poster after poster."

Not true, and it's kind of hard to rip you apart because all you have are one liners. Even in your other posts. You use ALOT of one-liners. I'm guessing that's prolly how you obtained the VAST majority of your posts.

[ratmonkey]

crudentials


oh the irony.

you obviously haven't taken freshman level english yet.

[X-Manifest]

I was wondering...and this has to do with what Undermane what saying...

Lets say you have just been cutting, are 5% bf....and all of a sudden stop lifting, and eat at a neither a surplus or deficit, just the right amount to maintain your size WITHOUT doing any exercise. What will happen to you. I assume you will start losing muscle as you are not lifting anymore, what happens to it? Does it convert to fat? Remember you are already eating at neither a deficit or surplus.

[Undermane]

Dale Purdon

"A skeletal muscle that is not regularly stimulated by a motor neuron loses muscle tone and mass. The muscle becomes flaccid, and the muscle fibers become smaller and weaker."

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:7cHZXo4V8X4J:cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/martinidemo/chapter10/medialib/CH10/html/ch10_5_3.html+Skeletal+Muscle+atrophy&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3

Go all the way to the bottom. That's all i found so far. I'll keep you updated with links.

[X-Manifest]

<"A skeletal muscle that is not regularly stimulated by a motor neuron loses muscle tone and mass">

Hmmm what do they mean by 'loses muscle TONE and mass.' I thought a muscle can either gain or lose mass,ie. grow or not growth. What do they mean by tone? I thought the word TONED purely meant lower body fat percentage which results in muscles being revealed.

[str8flexed]

I was wondering...and this has to do with what Undermane what saying...

Lets say you have just been cutting, are 5% bf....and all of a sudden stop lifting, and eat at a neither a surplus or deficit, just the right amount to maintain your size WITHOUT doing any exercise. What will happen to you. I assume you will start losing muscle as you are not lifting anymore, what happens to it? Does it convert to fat? Remember you are already eating at neither a deficit or surplus.
you will lose muscle... your body will have little reason to keep it

[X-Manifest]

Yup, but what happens to it. eating at your maint rate, that mass or loss of muscle needs to go somehwere doesnt it?

[adoniscomplex]

no and the second question is more complicated than you could imagine
i thought i just read in the derek contest section chuck saying it was possible to gain fat during cal deifiect do to improper insulin spikes ??

[str8flexed]

Yup, but what happens to it. eating at your maint rate, that mass or loss of muscle needs to go somehwere doesnt it?
your body catabolizes it, and your body composition will change... if you are eating at maintenance... loss of lean body tissue and an increase in bodyfat

[str8flexed]

i thought i just read in the derek contest section chuck saying it was possible to gain fat during cal deifiect do to improper insulin spikes ??

you could gain fat for a few hours for example if you eat 200g of carbs total per day, but you ate them all in one meal... yea you'd store some fat after that meal... but if that was your only carb meal of the day you'd end up burning them off the rest of the day and would still be in a negative balance. There are studies out there that bear this out

[X-Manifest]

makes sense, the whole high GI story. I dont see why one should not be able to put on fat while being in a deficit. Your TOTAL body mass for sure will still decrease, just the fat portion of your body would increase.

[str8flexed]

LOL
look storing fat just doesn't make sense if you are in a deficit. The body senses it is starving... nutrients will be preferentially oxidized... not stored... especially if you are looking at the entire 24 hour period... not just post prandial

[X-Manifest]

<but if that was your only carb meal of the day you'd end up burning them off the rest of the day and would still be in a negative balance. >

Str8flexed, when you say 'burning them off', you mean the fat which was stored from that meal right?

[str8flexed]

yes

[X-Manifest]

<look storing fat just doesn't make sense if you are in a deficit.>

but that means that the whole story of high GI foods being a cause of one gaining fat is one big myth? why i say that is....people that starve themselves and binge eat once a day will store more fat than someone eating the exact same calories however spreading it over 6 meals. On top of that, if the binge eater eats high GI, this would add even more to the storing of fat. If im talking crap, whats the deal with high GI foods being a cause of gaining fat? as well as binge eating putting your body in starvation mode.

[Undermane]

Putting your body into starvation mode and then eating massive amounts (overeating) at one sitting will cause your body to believe it is in some sort of famine and therefore store the meal to be used as later energy.

Eating more meals a day will cause your BMR to be higher. Therefore burning more calories during the day.

And heres a link on some research you should do to learn about insulin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Actions_on_cellular_and_metabolic_level

Scroll down to actions on cellular and metabolic level. It will explain how it decreases lipolysis and increases fatty acid synthesis.

[drunken_rapper]

for males ,40 gm of protein
for females 30gm protein is max absorbed in meal,rest will be stored as fat or excreted
however these values rise upto 50-60 gms after workout as rate of absorption of all nutrients increases post workout

[VDubb]

Alan Aragon just wrote a great article on this subject.......


http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

[Madevilz]

for males ,40 gm of protein
for females 30gm protein is max absorbed in meal,rest will be stored as fat or excreted
however these values rise upto 50-60 gms after workout as rate of absorption of all nutrients increases post workout

broscience much?

[mivi320]

Alan Aragon just wrote a great article on this subject.......


http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/is-there-a-limit-to-how-much-protein-the-body-can-use-in-a-single-meal/

This is a great read.

[VDubb]

This is a great read.

^Word.........AA knows his stuff......

[no1ninja]

I have a question about taking protein in a caloric deficit:

How much of the protein gets used for muscle building, and how much of it is converted for immediate energy?

Will your body utilize its fat stores if there is a belly full of protein?


Is it reasonable to think that your intake of protein will be used to build and repair muscle while your daily energy needs come from your fat stores?

[l3g1tsanchez]

I have read that the body can only absorb up to 30gs of protein at a time. Is that true? Does that mean taking 50gs of whey protein isolate at a time (for example) wastes 20gs? Thanks.

I heard that was only for regular food consumption and not supplement protein. just saying what i heard dont quote me on that lol.

[drunken_rapper]

depends on wht intensity level u at

[Guardian]

I was wondering...and this has to do with what Undermane what saying...

Lets say you have just been cutting, are 5% bf....and all of a sudden stop lifting, and eat at a neither a surplus or deficit, just the right amount to maintain your size WITHOUT doing any exercise. What will happen to you. I assume you will start losing muscle as you are not lifting anymore, what happens to it? Does it convert to fat? Remember you are already eating at neither a deficit or surplus.

Muscle does not "turn into" fat. What would happen is that in theory your base metabolic rate would decline, thus you would actually over time go into calorie surplus even if you at the same amount, these extra calories would then become fat.

This is why at least I feel one can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time even if calories are held the same, this only works to a mediocre degree but for many completely out of shape fat people it would be more then enough to look half way in shape lol.

[BobisMighty]

Eating more meals a day will cause your BMR to be higher. Therefore burning more calories during the day.


i thought this is only true if each of those meals contains protein?

http://ergo-log.com/moremeals.html

edit: also, has this article been posted yet?
http://ergo-log.com/3090grprot.html

[Guardian]

i thought this is only true if each of those meals contains protein?

http://ergo-log.com/moremeals.html

Well it is more "powerful" not necessarily completely exclusive.

[Barn01]

if you just want to look at absorption that is pretty easy. if you want to look at utilization (big difference) IE what is the optimimum meal to meal level for maximizing protein synthesis... that is much more difficult.

we are looking at the latter

So what kinds of things have you found so far? Related or unrelated to the objective!

[no1ninja]

I see people getting all upset about the 30g/per sitting number, again, I think that is just a guesstimate, and not a bad guess at that. However, it is not some magic yardstick. Most likely that number was postulated with an average human body in mind, not a bodybuilder or an extreme athlete (Why guess with extremes and give info that the majority can't use?). IMO, a large male who works out his body could probably take in and use more protein (in some cases probably 2x or 3x that number - we all come in different sizes).

Just using logic here. Your digestive system does not stop, its only method of storage is fat. The protein that is in excess of this most likely will be converted and stored as fat or be passed out as urine. All of it is processed, but only some of it is used in its intended form. I would venture to guess that damage to tissues and extreme muscle fatigue would increase the usage of protein in its basic form.


I still am left with a serious question though. If I am on a calorie deficit, is taking in whey protein the best option? Or should I be taking in something that is harder to digest so that my body is tempted to use its fat stores?

Could absorption and uptake of a given protein also make it more susceptible as an immediate fuel for the body?

[Tall612]

What about casein and milk protein? I'm been adding two scoops of whey (44g), and 1 casein (24g) to 16 oz of milk (18g) - that's 86 g of protein about 3 hrs. after working out and 2 hours before going to bed, how much of this is wasted?

I'm thinking I should make this shake smaller, and take what I save and put it into another shake durring the day. Though, I'd still like to know.

[buddy444]

I have read that the body can only absorb up to 30gs of protein at a time. Is that true? Does that mean taking 50gs of whey protein isolate at a time (for example) wastes 20gs? Thanks.

If that is the case, then I have been very wasteful! I hope protein can be absorbed faster than that!

[Aconnors]

What about casein and milk protein? I'm been adding two scoops of whey (44g), and 1 casein (24g) to 16 oz of milk (18g) - that's 86 g of protein about 3 hrs. after working out and 2 hours before going to bed, how much of this is wasted?

I'm thinking I should make this shake smaller, and take what I save and put it into another shake durring the day. Though, I'd still like to know.

cut out a scoop of whey and drink the other 2 in water.


or use the milk with 1 whey and a half scoop of the cas