Weight gain 101 I hope this helps

[Sixpack]

PART 1

This is for all Ectomorphs. Yea you. The thin, skinny, tall, flat chested, rapid metabolism, nervous, can’t sit still Ectomorph. You want to gain weight?

If you’re not gaining weight, you’re not eating enough. You need to determine how many calories you’re taking in. Weigh yourself on day 1 first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. Keep track of all the calories you eat for 14 days. On day 15 weigh yourself again, if your weight has not changed by plus or minus 2 pounds this will work. Add up the calories for each day and divide by 14. The number you come out with is how many calories you need to eat each day to maintain your current bodyweight. Now to start gaining weight you need to add 300-500 calories to this number. Go 7 days then weigh yourself again. Slowly up the calories until you see an increase in weight.

Only try to gain 1-2 pounds a week. More than this on a consistent basis will lead to more increases in fat than muscle. Check your progress every 4 weeks with skinfold calipers and a cloth tape measure. If you’re desperately thin, a 10-pound increase consisting of 5 pounds of fat & 5 pounds of muscle is ok. A 2:1 ratio of muscle to fat would be ideal. Don’t be afraid of increases in fat. As long as it’s not settling solely around your waist you’re ok.

There are 8 basic components of nutrition.

Calories – besides what was mentioned earlier, you should be eating at least 6 times a day every 2-3 hours. A rough example would be 7:00am, 10:00am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm, and 10pm.

Protein – 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. popular choices are chicken, turkey, eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, peanut butter, milk, whey, lean cuts of red meat, fish

Carbs – 2.5 to 3 grams per pound of bodyweight. popular choices are whole grain brown rice, sweet potatoes, veggies, beans, whole grain breads and cereals, yams.

Fats – 20-30% of total caloric intake. good fats can be found in meat, fish, canola and olive oil, nuts, seeds, legumes, and sesame and soybean oil.

Water – 1 gallon a day.

Fiber – 20-35 grams daily.

Vitamins & Minerals – this is easily covered with a daily multi-vitamin/mineral.

Specifics on these 8 items can be found on this forum by searching.


Supplements besides a multi-vitamin:

If you cant eat enough calories or meals you should consider using a weight gainer or high calorie MRP.

If you can’t eat enough protein you should consider using a protein powder.

After these 3 you can add creatine and glutamine if you desire and more vitamin C and E. Now don’t get your priorities out of whack. If you don’t eat enough protein, you’re not going to grow no matter how much creatine you take. If you don’t eat enough calories, you’re not going to grow no matter how much glutamine you take. Don’t believe the BS in the muscle magazines about supplements. Get the 8 basics of nutrition down pat.


After your workouts get in some simple carbs, whey and creatine. Why? Hit the search button.

These ideas will not turn you into a 220 pound ripped ultra low bodyfat % hulking monster of muscular might. If you weigh less than 150 pounds you should successfully reach 170-180 pounds, but give it plenty of time. When you get to this point, where you go from there will depend on genetics.

If this doesn’t saturate your brain, here are some links you may find useful:

PART 2

Nutrition was covered in part 1, this concerns training. I guess this should go in the training forum but I think this deserves to be all together. This concerns the Ectomorph.

Most training programs you see are not meant for you:

No 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off or whatever training split

No training twice a day

No “I’m using Cutlers leg routine from flex cause I’m going to kick his ass in 6 months”

No drop sets, supersets, strip sets, descending sets, pre-exhaust sets

No chest shoulder workout consisting of flat bench for whole chest then incline bench for upper chest then decline bench for lower chest followed by flyes and crossovers then shoulder press for shoulders followed by front raises for front shoulder, side laterals for side shoulder then rear laterals for rear shoulder

No 2-hour training sessions

No training just arms and chest unless the woman you desire gets horny from looking at a light bulb which what you’re going to look like.

Pretty much all routines you see. Training programs for an Ectomorph have to be short and intense. Get in, workout, get out, and then get plenty of rest and nutrients before next training session. Take at least 1 day off between workouts, 2 would be better. This would have you training every 3rd day.

These are the exercises you should concern yourself with:
Squats, deadlifts, bench press, shoulder press, chin-ups, bent over rows, upright rows, cleans, hack squats, dips, stiff-arm pullover, stiff leg deadlift, dips

These are called compound movements because they hit more than one bodypart. Don’t waste time on isolation movements. These hit one bodypart and are useless for a beginning Ectomorph.

If your arms are less than 15 inches, don’t train them directly.

If your chest measures less than 40 inches, do presses and dips only.

If your calves are less than 14 inches, don’t train them directly.

Learn the mind-muscle connection (no, not the rock and sock connection). Don’t just lift the weight from point A to point B. Make the muscle work throughout the entire range of motion. Concentrate on the quality of each rep rather than on quantity of weight. If you can’t feel the muscle working and cramping as the set progresses, you’re probably using too much weight.

Your workouts should last between 45-90 minutes. Realize that no matter how perfect your diet may

PART 3

For an Ectomorph, getting bigger doesn't just happen. You have to put in the time and effort 24/7. Remember this is a lifestyle; it's not something you can just do whenever you feel like, especially if you want results. You have goals you have to meet each and every day.

You have to eat X amount of calories each day.

You have to eat X amount of protein each day.

You have to eat X amount of carbs each day.

You have to eat X amount of fat each day.

You have to drink X amount of water each day.

You have to eat X amount of fiber each day.

You have to take your supplements.

You have to do your workouts lifting X amount of weight for X amount of reps.

Each day make sure you hit all your goals. A way you can check this is to get yourself a calendar. If you did everything you were supposed to, put a checkmark for that day. If you didn't, mark an X and put what you didn’t do and the reason why. As time goes by, if you're not getting results you will start to see a pattern developing on your calendar. Like if you’re consistently skipping workouts, or neglecting your supplements or skimping on your protein intake.

At the end of your cycle, grade yourself. Take the number of checkmarks and divide by how many days in cycle and get a percentage. For example if you’re training for 10 weeks, that’s 70 days. Say you have 59 checkmarks; divide 59 by 70 and you get 84%. Anything below 80% on a consistent basis is not good (hey, I once got a 25).

This may seem anal, but if your a true Ectomorph, you need to do everything right each day to see results. Muscle growth for us doesn’t just happen; we have to work really hard for it. I use this for myself and those I help out and even though I’m not by their side each day, I can take a quick look at their calendar and if they’re getting results, it’s covered with checkmarks. And if they’re complaining that they’re not getting results, it’s covered with X’s.


__________________
"Tough Times Don't Last But Tough People Do"

My Pop's



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10-12-2002 08:36 AM

[SHOT]

Good post bro....this is why i let him take care of all my diets when im nulking or cutting

[BiG RED HH]

Informative, and good reminder to us all.

Also, i really like your theory of training for ectomorph's, we share the same views.

Br

[CROWLER]

GREAT info as alway Sixpack.

Any way to tell if you are an ectomorph by the number of calories you require to maintain your current weight? Or by writst or ankle size in realation to height?

Reason I ask is I THINK I am your basic ectomorph but after working out for over 20 years and eating eating eating a person may not LOOK like an ectomorph but may still be one.

[jonesjp]

great article... now uhmm.. what about us endomorphs... i can put on size easy... catch is it is hard to keep the fat off... how do you recomend getting bigger without getting sloppy at the same time. right now i just do a LOT of cardio to keep the fat off but i know it inhibits my muscular growth as well... what is the trick for us natural fatty's??

[Judo Tom]

nice post

would you post your routine/split?

[Sixpack]

Endomorphs guys put on weight pretty easy and should really concentrate on there diet and the amount of carbs etc they take in> They gain very easy so thats why its important to montor what u eat etc. The same concepts go behind gaining weight u have to slowly up your cals so u don;t put on any unwanted bodyfat etc. 300-500 cals a week . Monitor your weight every week
My routine
Sunday-legs
Monday-cardio
Tues-Chest, biceps
Wed-Back
Thurs-Shourlders and traps
Friday -off
Sat-Triceps and forarms, calfs
Sunday start over

Sixpack

[CROWLER]

Any way to tell if you are an ectomorph by the number of calories you require to maintain your current weight? Or by writst or ankle size in realation to height?

Reason I ask is I THINK I am your basic ectomorph but after working out for over 20 years and eating eating eating a person may not LOOK like an ectomorph but may still be one.

[Judo Tom]

Thanks bro.. 2 quick questions if you dont mind..

1 why do you do biceps one day then back the next... just wondering if hitting bi's 2days in a row would be too much.. or is it just a trade off (not criticizing just curious)

and

2 what is your rep/set scheeme...


sorry to bother you just curious...

thanks man

[Sixpack]

I do biceps with chest if I have time if not I do it on Sat with with triceps etc. My reps are 6-10 with large bodyparts and 8-12 with smaller bodyparts
Sixpack

[Mr Grizzly]

bump for the newbies....this got to page 7

good post sixpack

[massive member]

just to let everyone know, this post was actually written by me, massive member. if anyone has any doubts, here are some facts you are free to see for yourself:

number 1:
i posted this orignally on www.fitnessboard.com. since that board is no longer up, i'll be happy to email anybody the orignal copy with the date of it being posted.

number 2:
this was posted on www.massmonsterz.com by sixpack thanking me for writing it.

number 3:
i posted this also on www.jpfitness.com.

number 4:
i also posted this on www.powerstore.com

number 5:
this was posted on www.fitnessgeared.com by highball thanking me for writing it.

number 6:
this is actually copyrighted material which is the basis on a program i will have available to purchase. but i wanted to post the basics available to help people out.

i was informed of this today my someone i have a ton of respect for. so i just wanted to let all the facts be known.

oh, and by the way, there are 5 parts to this. check out the other boards for the last 2.

thank you.
MM

[Sixpack]

YEs it was this Is MM I copied and pasted this info MM is a good bro with alot of info on gaining weight belive me he works harder then anyone on it etc. I have made this a sticky on the other board I mod on . He does deserve full credit for this, MM how have u been bro I have alot of info I want to tell u about that is a pretty big deal
Sixpack

[raybravo]

well , thanx to u then massive member . and since sixpack gave u credit during his posting of this thread , no hard feeling betw u guys i guess :) .

[SHOT]

Originally posted by massive member
just to let everyone know, this post was actually written by me, massive member. if anyone has any doubts, here are some facts you are free to see for yourself:

number 1:
i posted this orignally on www.fitnessboard.com. since that board is no longer up, i'll be happy to email anybody the orignal copy with the date of it being posted.

number 2:
this was posted on www.massmonsterz.com by sixpack thanking me for writing it.

number 3:
i posted this also on www.jpfitness.com.

number 4:
i also posted this on www.powerstore.com

number 5:
this was posted on www.fitnessgeared.com by highball thanking me for writing it.

number 6:
this is actually copyrighted material which is the basis on a program i will have available to purchase. but i wanted to post the basics available to help people out.

i was informed of this today my someone i have a ton of respect for. so i just wanted to let all the facts be known.

oh, and by the way, there are 5 parts to this. check out the other boards for the last 2.

thank you.
MM


if you dont mind would you post the other parts on this board bro? or any other kinda diet info you might have wrote for other types of bodys

or you can e-mail it to me and ill post it for you ...either way i would love to read all the parts and have them posted here all in one post so it will be easyer....

thanks sir..

BTW i posted this one another board when i found it on mm.COM but all credit was givin to you bro

[Sixpack]

YEs he does deserve the credit for it just to make this clear.
Sixpack

[massive member]

no hard feelings anywhere, just wanted to set the record straight.

six, been busy over here. i didnt email you when fb went down because i figured you were probably getting flooded with emails from others asking where you going.

i'm still around, been keeping up with the mm board and posting on a couple of other boards. you still have my email address?

raybravo, thank you.

SHOT, i can post the other 2 parts this weekend. and no, i dont have anything for other bodytypes. i'm a true ectomorph. that post was from 10 years of bustin ass learning what worked and what didnt.
after the business is up and going, i am going to look into weight gain for teenagers and for women. cause i get alot of skinny women asking, "what about me? LOL

and could you let me know what other board you posted this on? like i said, this is just the basics of a total program. if any questions come up, i'd like the opportunity to answer them so all bases would be covered.

and i was actually working on parts 6 and 7 when fb went down. so i want to make sure i cover all the boards this is posted on.

[SlateDrake]

Thanks Sixpack and MM for this info.

You guys are a great addition to bb.com

Thanks again,

Slate

[massive member]

Originally posted by CROWLER
GREAT info as alway Sixpack.

Any way to tell if you are an ectomorph by the number of calories you require to maintain your current weight? Or by writst or ankle size in realation to height?

Reason I ask is I THINK I am your basic ectomorph but after working out for over 20 years and eating eating eating a person may not LOOK like an ectomorph but may still be one.

CROWLER, this program was written for the atypical ectomporph who is tall, thin, cant gain weight, long thin arms and legs, fast metabolism and nervousness. the goal is to help those who weigh less than 150 pounds reach 170-180 pounds.

now you know that everybody does not fit nicely into this scheme. you have guys who are over 6' tall and weigh 190 lbs but are still thin and you have guys who are thin but once they start training they explode with muscle.

if someone see results from this, thats the whole point. what do you think?

[darkthorn]

Shouldn't something like this be a sticky?

[massive member]

Originally posted by Judo Tom
nice post

would you post your routine/split?

Judo Tom, if your referring to the weight gain post, what i do is start the guys on a full body routine done twice a week. something to this effect:

workout 1
squats
flat bench
shoulder press
bent over rows

workout 2
deadlifts
incline press
upright rows
pullups

this is done every 2 or 3 days giving of course 2 or 3 days of rest in between. most ectomorphs do not have high training thresholds. and when combined with a training program more suited to a pro bodybuilder, no wonder most of these guys stay thin.

this limited program does hit the whole body. i dont advise direct arm and calf exercises because they are a total waste to someone with 12 inch arms and 10 inch calves. presses hit triceps and back work hits bicep.

then once the ectomorph hit the 15 inch arm and 14 inch calf marks, then we incorporate isolation work into their workouts and spread them out more.

not groundbreaking, just get to the gym, workout and leave. dont stay there for 2 hours, dont go everyday. the ectomorph has to build up to that.

[CROWLER]

Originally posted by massive member
CROWLER, this program was written for the atypical ectomporph who is tall, thin, cant gain weight, long thin arms and legs, fast metabolism and nervousness. the goal is to help those who weigh less than 150 pounds reach 170-180 pounds.

now you know that everybody does not fit nicely into this scheme. you have guys who are over 6' tall and weigh 190 lbs but are still thin and you have guys who are thin but once they start training they explode with muscle.

if someone see results from this, thats the whole point. what do you think?

I don't understand your post a 100% but pretty much all of it. Thanks.

The reason I ask is I believe is I am an Ecto even though I have some size after MANY years of training. I was just curious if there was a fairly easy way to determine if a person is an ecto say a ration of writst measurement to heigth or ankle measurement etc.

[massive member]

only thing i've seen on this was from the book brawn.

"bodytype depicts a clear-cut body structure. it refers largely to the bone structure and the amounts of muscle and fat that cover the body. regarding the bone structure for adult males of average height, 6-7" wrists indicate a small bone stucture, 7-8" a medium bone structure and more than 8" large bone structure."

[CROWLER]

Thanks MM.

As I figured I am in the small bone category even though I am 6' tall.

[Sixpack]

No bro I don;t have your email u got mine I have not been on AOL lately bro either hit me up bro
Sixpack

[massive member]

PART 4

An overlooked but very important part of a successful training program is rest. Your body needs time to rest after a workout so that your muscles can recuperate and grow. If you are not allowing enough time between workouts to let your body fully recover, workouts will suffer and muscle growth will not occur. Exercise recovery, healing, tissue repair, anabolic hormone production and muscle growth are all maximized during sleep. Initial effects of sleep deprivation are sleepiness, but in the long term its consequences can include an interference with the release of growth hormone.

A common mistake many Ectomorphs make is training too often. Just because some people train three or four times a week does not mean that you have to do the same. If you ignore the recovery process and workout again before your muscles are fully recovered, you will be consistently tearing down muscle tissue and never allowing it to rebuild.

You have to look forward to your workouts. If you dread working out, you won’t get results. Also, if you just go through the motions, you won’t grow. Don’t believe that you have to workout everyday or if you don’t workout for a few days your muscles will lose size. That’s just not true. Your body grows during sleep, not when you workout. The more an Ectomorph works out each week, the less he’ll grow.

If you engage in too much extracurricular activity, kiss gains goodbye. Leave till later after acquired muscle mass. I knew of one guy would who get off work, go home, lift, then go to softball practice. He never made the kind of progress he should have.

More training does not equal more muscle growth. Understand that the purpose of weight training is to stimulate muscle growth. That takes very little time. Once that has been done, the muscle needs to be repaired and new muscle needs to be built. That only happens when you are resting. You do not build muscle in the gym, you build muscle when resting. If you never give your body any essential non-active time, when will it have a chance to build muscle.

Even more practical is to avoid constant striving to prolong indefinitely those wonderful times when you're on a roll of PRs. Most of us can peak for about four to eight weeks. At some point you need to recognize that it can't last. It makes sense to regroup and recover for a while before planning new goals. This is the way to avoid overtraining altogether.



Some of this is my own words and some is from other sources.

[massive member]

PART 5

training and nutrition logs

in a training log, you simply write down the exercises you did, sets, reps, weights and the time you started and finished. how does that saying go, "you'll never get where you're going if you dont know where youve been." no more guessing how much weight you squatted last week or how many reps you pressed. it will be right there for you to see. you can also add notes or comments about grip placement or something you did to really feel the muscle work that you want to remember for next workout.

also use it to plan upcoming workouts. when you set foot into a gym, you need to know exactly what you're going to do before you even get in there. if you walk in and say, "gee, now what am i gonna do", your workouts are going to suffer. as soon as you finish your sets of a particular exercise, right then and there mark on your log what you want to accomplish next workout. do you want to increase the weight by 5 lbs or maybe 10 lbs? do you want to do a few more reps with the same weight? make a judegment right then and there instead of later on. write it down. next time you do that workout, you can continue where you left off instead of wasting precious time squatting a weight you did 2 weeks ago.

for your nutrition log, this where you keep tabs of your calories, protein, carbs, fat, fat %, and fiber each and every day. if you want to list every single item you ate or drank thats up to you. this may seem like a pain in the rear at first but after a while it will get easier especially if you eat pretty much the same things day after day. remember nutrition plays a big role in getting bigger and here is your proof that you were eating and drinking what you had to to reach that goal. this is where you keep tabs on your bodyweight, bodyfat % and measurements also.

lets say today you ate 3800 calories, 145gr of protein, 361gr of carbs, 92gr of fat and 29 grams of fiber and you weigh 142 pounds. you ate enough protein, 142 times 2.5 equals 355 so you ate enough carbs, 92 times 9 equals 828 divided by 3800 equals 21% so you got enoug fat. and at 29 grams you got enough fiber. now if you wasnt writing this down each day, how would you know all this? you'll get much better results than the person who says they eat till they cant eat anymore when asked how many calories they eat each day.

[raybravo]

actually, mm , about keeping that nutritional log , atleast for me, what works is keeping carbs down after 6 pm or so , i get in quite a few carbs , in fact all my carbs in the morn , and i dont really keep count , just try to keep the junk and fat out , do my morning low intensity cardio , ive been able to stay at like 6-8%, maybe if someone wants to get down in competition shape , yes ur method works , but someone who just wants to keep making small gains staying lean , i think my method shud work .

[Sixpack]

Well different methods will work for different people bro I am setting up many diets right now and I have found that having the person take in there strartchy carbs like there brown rice, oats or yams in the morning or mid afternoon before 2pm is working great> I have the get all there starchy carbs in for the day before that time then stick to only green veggies and lentiles. THis is working great and am having positive feedback on it. Each person is different this will not work for everyone even with Massives info it is not going to work with every single person because each person is different on how much the need of certain foods etc , metabolism , and body structure etc.
Sixpack

[raybravo]

yes sixpack , veggies later in the day wudnt be bad :) , and yeah , agree with evrything else too :).

[wonderif1000]

Thanks for the info bro's. This made for some great reading. MM and sixpack are a great addition to this board.

[massive member]

Originally posted by raybravo
actually, mm , about keeping that nutritional log , atleast for me, what works is keeping carbs down after 6 pm or so , i get in quite a few carbs , in fact all my carbs in the morn , and i dont really keep count , just try to keep the junk and fat out , do my morning low intensity cardio , ive been able to stay at like 6-8%, maybe if someone wants to get down in competition shape , yes ur method works , but someone who just wants to keep making small gains staying lean , i think my method shud work .
hey raybravo, remember this is for the ectomorph. guys who are like me when i started, which was 125 pounds at 5% bodyfat, with 12" arms, 11" forearms, 10" calves and a 34" chest at 5' 8" tall.

the typical ectomorph has to do everything correct to see any growth. and then most dont see alot of growth when they do everything correct. its hard to fill out long arms and calves.

the best i ever was 180 pounds at 10% bodyfat, with 15" arms, 14" forearms and calves, and a 40" chest at 5' 10" tall. surely nothing spectacular, but alot of skinny guys would do anything for those results.

if the ectomorphs numbers are off just a tad, results wont occur. i've seen this with my own eyes enough times to know its true. the ectomorph needs double their protein intake in carbs because they burn more calories at rest then some people can during a short walk. its the curse of having a fast metabolism. we have alot of nervous energy and thats burning calories all day. then when you add weight training to the mix, that increases the buring 2 fold.

[raybravo]

well then mm , if its for an ectomorph, then wudnt u rather have him just counting protein , u know bump to a high number , like 2 grams per pound , then let him go crazy with the carbs and not count it ? that way i think he wud stand to gain more ? i mean keeping exact count wud be more for the endomorpth i wud think cos he's the one adding fat easy . for the ones who add fat rare , just count protein and eat as much of other **** as possible i'd say . whats ur take on this bro ?

[Sixpack]

Everything has to be counted protien ,carbs and fat u have to track your calories no matter what many ectomorph's actually think they are eating alot etc but when they actually add up there cals they are not eating nearly enough., Another thing many people do not weight their food at all I for one used to think I was eating enough and was not weighing my food. Well I started weighing my food I I realized how much I was not eating. For example I thought every chicken breat was about 5oz in a package I was wroing they were about 3-4oz I was cheating myself on not weighing my food. A food scale is a must u must weigh your food out. My measuring cups were also off by 1/4 so I was cheating myself again. DO not rely on measuring cups excet for things like olive oil and natural PB etc this is a must in anyones diet
Sixpack

[CROWLER]

Originally posted by Sixpack
Everything has to be counted protien ,carbs and fat u have to track your calories no matter what many ectomorph's actually think they are eating alot etc but when they actually add up there cals they are not eating nearly enough., Another thing many people do not weight their food at all I for one used to think I was eating enough and was not weighing my food. Well I started weighing my food I I realized how much I was not eating. For example I thought every chicken breat was about 5oz in a package I was wroing they were about 3-4oz I was cheating myself on not weighing my food. A food scale is a must u must weigh your food out. My measuring cups were also off by 1/4 so I was cheating myself again. DO not rely on measuring cups excet for things like olive oil and natural PB etc this is a must in anyones diet
Sixpack


Good points.

I thought I was eating all the time. Ya like we haven't all heard guys say that.

But once I started actually counting all my calories I realized I wasn't eating as much as I thought.

I think alot of guys like to throw the number 5000 calories around alot and I wonder how many are actually getting that.

I have not used a scale I guess that is the next step.

Six Pack I ****ing HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!

You make me feel guilty and then I gotta do more ****. Oh yea I am gaining more muscle but I still HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!! :)

ummm btw where is a good place to get a scale?

[Sixpack]

Crowler thats whay I am here for bro if u need to talk PM bro I can help anytime bro just let me know I am happy u are gaining bro good luck with it
Sixpack

[CROWLER]

Ok bros I don't want sixpack to get a swelled head so Sixpack don't read this.

I started following a few things Sixpack suggested.

Few stats on myself. 6' 219lbs APPROX 12% BF

Did a couple VERY low dose cycles.

But basically would have thought I was definitely at my natural limit.

Followed some suggestions by six pack and have gained 4 pounds of muscle and increased leg and chest size in just a few weeks. I had started a cycle but only did 2 shots each of Fina and Test ENt and had to Stop so the gains are not from that.

This with tendonits in my arms so of course I have not been able to go heavey but still gained.

Oh yea and I am 40 :). The bro knows his SH!T !!!!!!!!!!

Ok Six Pack you can start reading again.

[Sixpack]

I will never get a big head about it bro the joy I get out of it is seeing how excited u are about making gains and hitting your goals. Thats what makes me happy crowler honestly it does. IT take disipline but I can only tell u what to do u have to actually do it yourself which u did which is why u deserve a pat on the back bro way to go brother and keep the intensity up.
God bless
Sixpack

[massive member]

Originally posted by raybravo
well then mm , if its for an ectomorph, then wudnt u rather have him just counting protein , u know bump to a high number , like 2 grams per pound , then let him go crazy with the carbs and not count it ? that way i think he wud stand to gain more ? i mean keeping exact count wud be more for the endomorpth i wud think cos he's the one adding fat easy . for the ones who add fat rare , just count protein and eat as much of other **** as possible i'd say . whats ur take on this bro ?
i myself and others have tried the 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight and we just got the ****s. muscle growth was the same as when we were at 1 gram. so thats personal experience along with seeing it with others.

a couple of us actually tried the high carb thing. i can pull up some nutrition logs and my carb intake was 600-700 for one day. but even though we gained, the amount of bodyfat gained to the amount of lean body mass gained was even at this amount. so we started lowering the carbs and the amount of bodyfat gained went down.

like with that high carb intake. a 15 pound gain in bodyweight would be like 8 pounds of fat and 7 pounds of lean body mass. when we started dropping the carbs, 15 pound gains were more like 9 to 6 or 10 to 5 with the higher number being lean body mass.

i was doing good with 2 grams of carb per pound of bodyweight and a good buddy of mine was at 3 so i decided on 2.5 grams.

main thing, i want these guys to have some structure and discipline to their eating. i'm just not comfortable with saying things like eat till you cant eat no more or just eat a buttload of protein.

what you think?

[raybravo]

agreed bro :) . seems disciplined enuf :). but r u sure people didnt grow better on 2 grams per pound compared to gram a pound ? cos i see no reason why this wud happen ? i mean i wud rather have a trainee increase protein cals than carbs cals after his carb intake has hit a certain point .

[IME]

Good post bros!! bump

[CROWLER]

I got the ****s from so much protein UNTIL sixpack told me to add oatmeal to my shakes problem solved even with 70 grams of protein in one shake.

This was one of the two 'tricks' he gave me that led to my increase in muscle mass.

I have passed on the info to a couple bros and they have gotten the same results.

[CROWLER]

Originally posted by massive member
i myself and others have tried the 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight and we just got the ****s. muscle growth was the same as when we were at 1 gram. so thats personal experience along with seeing it with others.



Are you saying an ecto can get enough protein with only 1 gram per pound of bodyweight while on AS, or is this natural lifter?

Eg 200 lb AS user eats 200 grams of protein and they are fine?

[Sixpack]

IMO u don;t need 2 gram per pound to grow I usually never go higher then 1.5 gram per pound on or off. IMO u can take in more when on gear so it should not be a problem
Sixpack

[massive member]

Originally posted by raybravo
agreed bro :) . seems disciplined enuf :). but r u sure people didnt grow better on 2 grams per pound compared to gram a pound ? cos i see no reason why this wud happen ? i mean i wud rather have a trainee increase protein cals than carbs cals after his carb intake has hit a certain point .
discipline rules!

well, in a way we did increase protein, but it was only to keep pace with bodyweight.

remember, i put this together for a skinny guy to gain BODYWEIGHT. fat AND muscle. like my grandma said, get some meat to stick to your ribs. and we're trying to keep the muscle to fat gain at 2 to 1.

also, like i said, remember the ectomorph, burning calories while he's sitting on his ass more than others can walking. as his bodyweight increases, his carbs need to keep pace. the added muscle is burning even more calories then his body was before. and he needs those carbs to fuel his way throught the workouts of squats, deads, clean, presses. maybe if he was wasting his time with curls, extensions, kickbacks, etc, he wouldnt need as many carbs. but he wouldnt be growing either.

[massive member]

Originally posted by CROWLER
Are you saying an ecto can get enough protein with only 1 gram per pound of bodyweight while on AS, or is this natural lifter?

Eg 200 lb AS user eats 200 grams of protein and they are fine?
oh no, man, i'm talking natural.

i've never used AS, i have no knowledge of how to use them properly, and thats the gods honest truth.

to see a 130 pound guy using AS shows a poor choice on his part. if he cant get his body to grow using food and regular supps, he needs to learn what he is doing. he cant eat and train right, how in the world am i to believe he can administer AS right.

with AS, they're playing on a different field. now once someone gets to 170-180 and have been training for a few years, i tell them if thats where they want to go, research, research, research, then use them.

[SHOT]

bump

[JoeJoeJoe]

Why not train arms directly if they're under 15"? I'm an ecto, and i was wondering this.

[massive member]

well, its an opinion based on the atypical ectomorph who has long arms and legs and not very good recovery capabilities.

most ectomorphs begin training with 11 to 12 inch arms and forearms. doing set after set of concentration curls, kickbacks, hammer curls, alternating dumbell curls, etc will probably lead to bigger arms, but in how long?

my opinion is for ectomorphs to not concern themselves with their arms directly. instead let them get worked from chinups, deadlifts, dips, etc. without having to do direct arm work, they can put more effort into these exercises and get more results, because we all know how effective the big, basic exercises are for not only arms, but back, chest, etc.

i tell guys if they want to do barbell curls, instead do an extra set of chinups. if they want to do pushdowns, do an extra set of dips. so they're not only hitting arms, they'll be hitting the big muscles as well and getting more returns for their efforts.

thats how i got my 12 inch arms to 15 inches years ago.

[wannabestud]

Took me a while to read, but lots of good info. Thanks for posting this, and directing me to it, massive member. Tells me a lot of what I need to do. My wrist is only 6.5" :( I heard that eventually your bones will grow...is that true? And is there any exercises I can do to get bigger wrists?

[massive member]

this is just one man opinion, but i think small wrists make big forearms look more impressive.

or maybe i just think like this cause my wrists measure 7". :)

[wannabestud]

Is there any way I can make it bigger?

[countingcrows]

bump

[ark14]

I'm going to try this plan. Hopefully it will work for me. I'm 5'2, and 54 pounds (an extreme ecto).

[massive member]

wow ark.

how old are you?

[Abdominator]

He's 14 years old. Here is his picture thread:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186627

We suggested he see a doctor regarding his low bodyweight. We feel he might have a digestive disorder. In my brother's case, it was Celiac's disease (which I go into great detail about in Ark14's thread) and my brother got down to almost 115 lbs. before we were able to diagnose what was going on. My brother's on a special meal plan now (that avoids foods that make him sick) and he's back up to a healthy bodyweight. So we encouraged Ark14 to ask his doctor if that might be his problem, because even at 5'2", he shouldn't weigh that little.

- Skip :)

[massive member]

ark12, Abdominator gave you great advice in that thread.

heed what he says

[brandnizzle]

heh I'm going to take this advice too, i'm 5'7 and around 115 lbs. I've made pretty good progress in the past three or four months, i was like 105 for a year or so before that. I know gains won't come overnight so I'm being patient and hoping for good long-term results. My bone structure is extremely thin, for example my wrists are a little less 5.5 inches. Doesnt bother me too much though..

[NiR]

ok i understand that having a nutritional log will be helpful, but how do i no how much carbs/protein/fats that i am taking. i mainly eat rice/bread/sandwiches and other things. but i have no clue how much calorie or proteins or carbs they have. how much carbs or caloriesdoes like a certain amount of rice along with sauce and cihicken and other stuff on it have? i just dont no how to calculate the calories and stuff. i can keep track of the calories and stuff on food that has the nutrition value written on it. but most food i eat dont. like when i buy a turkey sandwich.... i go to college so i dont have much time to eat. as a personal experience i was like 145 and in 2 months by eating n large 6 meals a day i had gained to 165. but right when i started college i didnt have much time to eat so i couldnt keep eating my n large 2 and my 6 meals so i like LOST IT ALL. i am like 148 now although i am actually stronger then i was when i was 165.but i still do need to gain weight. so how do i check the amount of calories on the food i buy from outside or have at my house with no nutritional value written have?

[Abdominator]

Originally posted by NiR
ok i understand that having a nutritional log will be helpful, but how do i no how much carbs/protein/fats that i am taking. i mainly eat rice/bread/sandwiches and other things. but i have no clue how much calorie or proteins or carbs they have. how much carbs or caloriesdoes like a certain amount of rice along with sauce and cihicken and other stuff on it have? i just dont no how to calculate the calories and stuff. i can keep track of the calories and stuff on food that has the nutrition value written on it. but most food i eat dont. like when i buy a turkey sandwich.... i go to college so i dont have much time to eat. as a personal experience i was like 145 and in 2 months by eating n large 6 meals a day i had gained to 165. but right when i started college i didnt have much time to eat so i couldnt keep eating my n large 2 and my 6 meals so i like LOST IT ALL. i am like 148 now although i am actually stronger then i was when i was 165.but i still do need to gain weight. so how do i check the amount of calories on the food i buy from outside or have at my house with no nutritional value written have?

All foods sold in the United States are required to have a nutritional information label on the back. So you can determine how many servings you're having, and add up the totals.

For other foods, and restaurants, try this webpage:

http://www.olen.com/food/

...and here's a webpage that might help you understand how your body handles the calories you take in, and how efficient the body is when it comes to burning them:

http://home.howstuffworks.com/diet.htm/printable

As I mentioned on that other thread, make sure you eat every two hours. To do this effectively will require getting a log book (a spiral notebook will do) and plan out how many calories you'll be taking in per day. Write out the times you eat, the amount of food you eat at each sitting and the total number of calories you eat that day should fall between 1800-2000 calories.

Here are some links to Nutrition-Factor's nutritional tables for popular foods (including some fast food restaurants you may have visited):

Good calorie sources:

http://www.nutrition-factor.com/starchesfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/fruitfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/meatfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/nutsandsweetsfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/veggiefact.html

Bad (calorie dense, nutritionally bad for bodybuilders) calorie sources:

http://www.nutrition-factor.com/Arbysfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/blimpiefact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/burgerkingfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/kfcfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/littlecaesarsfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/wendysfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/longjohnsilverfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/mcdonaldsfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/subwayfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/papajohnsfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/pizzahutfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/tacobellfact.html
http://www.nutrition-factor.com/jackfact.htm

Hope that helps. :)

- Skip :)

[NiR]

that really really helps. thanks man.

[Automobile]

Six pack Do you visit any other boards

[wonderif1000]

I beleive he is a mod at massmonsterz.

[BoDEAN]

Nice post!

[fonderboy]

I use to eat tons of pizza and mcdonalds and i BARELY GAINED ANY weIGHT WDFH

5'6 102 pds :( SUX

[Need 2Whey more]

Great post 6 pack. I've been trainning for many years and it never ceases to amaze me that bodybuilding is not an exact science and one can never learn enough. I've never heard of that idea of marking one's progress on a calendar. Thanks for the info I'm going to give that calendar monitoring a try, I need all the help I can get with my genetics working against me. Thanks again.

[zeratulz]

read plz noobs

[massive member]

Originally posted by Need 2Whey more
Great post 6 pack.
:(

[The Engineer]

excellent post MM

out of curiousity, do you know of anyone with similar knowlege (comparable to what you've posted) about meso and endomorph body types?

i, myself, am not an ecto, (small bone structured endo for sure - i attract mass like mad - not always a good thing), but the info is great.

[massive member]

i asked that one time on another board and it got thrown back in my face.

something about training for different bodytypes is a waste and we should all do the same thing. i dont agree with that so i didnt waste my time pursuing the matter further.

[The Engineer]

guess i'll have to look into it then. thanks

[DuncanMcloud]

Great post I thought only I had this problem. Luckily about three and a half years ago a friend told me just about the same thing your saying: EAT! And so my relationship with food began. I bring like 40 pounds of food to work now it's a pain in the ass. Unfortunatly I don't do anything in moderation and ended up with stretch marks on my legs and glutes (from actual muscle).

[massive member]

Originally posted by DuncanMcloud
And so my relationship with food began. :D

[wtsoufee]

very interesting indeed

[rufus 20 4 7]

im getting back into bulking again, how gradually should i up my cals? im going to the gym 3 times a week and doing hiit twice, should i consume more cals on those days or just the same everyday? should i stop with the hiit sessions? im 5'10", 150lbs, with 8% bf, so i was thinking of consuming around 3200 cals a day. is this too much or too little???

thanks

[massive member]

work in roughly 300 calorie increments. see how you do at 3200 and work from there.

its just a matter of checking your progress and seeing how you react. hiit 2x a week should be fine.

[rockn2dmax]

I'm a huge ectomorph, and I'm going to try your "X" and "Checkmark" thing for my program.

Only thing I didn't agree with you on was your ideas on arms and calfs for ecto-morphs... meaning if they're what is struggling the most, that you avoid training them... Not to be a dick, but I saw your pictures and you have some HUGE trunk/mid-section mass... but your arms, & neck don't look balanced out... you have the mid-section of a Men's Health cover model, and the arms just don't seem to match...
I would prefer that my arms grow with the rest of my body! Even if that would mean sacrificing a little mass in my trunk area to get my arms bigger as well!!

[massive member]

thats cool. :)

understand that when i started training, my arms were 12" and my calves were 10". without no direct work for them, i got them up to 15" and 14" respectively. right i have them both at 14.5". my goal is to have my neck, arms and calves all equal so i still have some work to do. :D

the point i was making was dont spend an excess amount of time on arm work because they do get hit from chins, dips, deadlifts, presses and rows. in other words, dont devote a day just to train arms. ;)

best of luck in your training. :)