Most Overrated fish?

[TheBourne]

Followup to fitnessman's thread (not trying to be negative) but I'd have to say the bass. They are fun to catch and put up the occasional fight, but they're just not my cup of tea I guess...what's your most overrated fish?

[Grind4Mine]

Largemouth bass fishing is why i get out of bed in the moring.....This is a tougher question tho.....I really cant think of an overated fish

[fitnessman]

Followup to fitnessman's thread (not trying to be negative) but I'd have to say the bass. They are fun to catch and put up the occasional fight, but they're just not my cup of tea I guess...what's your most overrated fish?

I have to agree. Largemouth Bass.

Smallmouth on the other hand...HOLD ON! :D

[CHIBI]

These days I only fish for large mouth bass. All my fishing is done with hand made top-water plugs and I really enjoy it. IMO rubber baits are not even half as fun.

[fitnessman]

These days I only fish for large mouth bass. All my fishing is done with hand made top-water plugs and I really enjoy it. IMO rubber baits are not even half as fun.

Top water for any fish is just breath taking!

[TheBourne]

Unless its humongous, I juist find catching bass is too common in my area, I love catching musky, pike, even carp just because its something you don't get to experience too often

[Nainoa]

Followup to fitnessman's thread (not trying to be negative) but I'd have to say the bass. They are fun to catch and put up the occasional fight, but they're just not my cup of tea I guess...what's your most overrated fish?


There is quite the debate over this topic in my "Angler's Circle."

For us "Walleye Guys" Who the Bass Guys have Dubbed "The Walleye Snobs." We scoff at Large Mouth Bass...

Now I can understand you southern guys going after Bass, as they're the dominant game fish down there, and you guys don't have the diversity of fishery that we have in northern and midwestern states.

But up here, we've got everything. (We're the only region of the country that has all the species of fresh water game fish.)

LM Bass you can catch accidentally up here... So why friggin' even bother trargeting a Bucketmouth. For me as an Upper-Midwest Angler when I hear someone say "I'm a Bass Fisherman." Ranks right up there with saying "Hey I'm best at attracting Rodents into my house, I simply spread cereal on the floor and leave the door open 24/7.

***

Everything else is better than LM Bass... If I want a Good Fight... I'm either going on the River after Smallies, or I'm hitting the weed edges for Large Pike... Or in off season times I'm picking up Cats and Carp... All of which are better fighters than the Large Mouth.
(Note I'm about to Add Musky to my Resume in 2006, which are the pimpin' king of all fights.) The fight of a Bucketmouth compared to a Musky is like the difference between a 3rd grader fighting a 4th grader on the playground, and Friggin' D-Day of World War II.

If I'm looking for something to eat... ICK... I'm not eating a friggin' Bucketmouth! Walleye, a Properly Y-Boned Northern Pike, or just some nice sized Pan Fish are all a much more superior meal.
Bass tastes Uber-Fishy, the meat is loose and muddy... Ick!

***

As such us Walleye guys have started to call Large Mouth Bass "Rat Fish." As they rank just above Bullheads... Actually now that I think about it A bullhead of equal fight is an even better fight than the bass... So I might have to downgrade that statement.

***
But the biggest difference plays out just by looking at the difference between the Walleye Guy, and the Bass guy... (In my Anglers Circle.)

For one... Walleye guys tend more often to be Multi-Species Anglers... Because if the Walleye are turned off, or it's a bad part of the day we'll often go after Pike or Pannies.

But if you look at it...
Walleye guy... Is dressed in Earth tones, practical hats, and often times camo of somekind carried over from hunting season.
He has a vast assortment of rods, and reels... His tackle box is HUGE, and comes prepared for everthing.

The Bass guy... He just got done watching the Walmart FLW Bass tournament of Lake Okeechobee... He's dressed in flashy colors, has 2 rods, one spinning reel that he uses all the time and one Bait Caster that's in a constant state of backlash. He's wearing a baseball cap backwards, and has spanfangled shades designed to help him see into coverage... The only thing he knows about fishing he learned by watching Bass fishing on TV.
Then he casts a lure out and sits there waiting for a curious bass to come bite on it.

Your modest fishing boat with a 60 HP motor is nothing compared to the Ranger Reata he's going to buy one day with the 225 HP motor, so he can haul ass across that 150 acre lake near his house!


So us Walleye guys (AKA multi-Species Anglers) in my Anglers Circle have come up with a ranking list.

1. Walleye
2. Crappies
3. Jumbo Perch
4. Smallies
5. Northern Pike
6. Sunnys
7. Catfish
8. Carp
9. An Old Boot
10. A Tire
11. Jimmy Hoffa's Skeletal Corpse
12. LM Bass
13. Bullhead

(Not Noted are other Rough Fish, Trout, and Musky, as not enough data and oppinons have been experienced to accurately rate them.)

[Nainoa]

These days I only fish for large mouth bass. All my fishing is done with hand made top-water plugs and I really enjoy it. IMO rubber baits are not even half as fun.

Now see I can respect that... You're really taking to the challenge, and craft...

One of the big problems in the Upper Midwest is that many of the bass fisherman up here are total posers, who are just catching them because they're so damn easy to catch, and dressing up and acting out like they're part of the Bass Pro Tour or some horse****... And it's working to really invalidate the fish as a species.

But I can respect a man who goes through all the work of fashioning his own plugs and baits, in an advancement of his craft.

[GREENFEATHER]

You haven't lived until you've seen a 700 pound Blue Marlin crash your Hoo!! Or a 100 lb White Marlin hit your fly and tail walk for 20 metres. :D That's fishing, lol!! I think M peed herself when she hooked her first Blue. I need to get into freshwater more than I am. Almost all of my gear is for saltwater.

[rambone]

No inshore fish in North America compares to Snook, Tarpon, and peacock bass, luckily I have all three in my backyard

[fitnessman]

No inshore fish in North America compares to Snook, Tarpon, and peacock bass, luckily I have all three in my backyard

I now hate you!


:D

[skinnyfred]

No way...LM Bass are not overrated! I would have to say rainbow trout are the most overrated fish. They can't fight for ****, I feel nothing when reeling them in. They're very popular game fish here in California, but I stick to LM Bass fishing.

[rambone]

No way...LM Bass are not overrated! I would have to say rainbow trout are the most overrated fish. They can't fight for ****, I feel nothing when reeling them in. They're very popular game fish here in California, but I stick to LM Bass fishing.

come to south florida and you will think largemouths are over rated, I've caught 4 over 10lbs in one year in the lake in my yard, and I wasnt that excited they were weighed on an IGFA certified boga grip.

[bassing68]

Followup to fitnessman's thread (not trying to be negative) but I'd have to say the bass. They are fun to catch and put up the occasional fight, but they're just not my cup of tea I guess...what's your most overrated fish?

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated fish. Overrated as in how? I normally fish bass (bassing68, go figure!) but I also fish cat and love to eat cat but will be adding crappie this year.

[Oddball8945]

LM Bass are overrated because thats all you hear people talking about, guys will go primarly out just to catch LM Bass, try a different species of fish, its not like its that hard to catch a LM Bass & on TV thats all they focus on. What about all the better table fair fish, such as Pearch,Walleye,Crappie,SM Bass, Hybrid Bass, catfish and other panfish. These are much harder to catch and Hybrid Bass and walleye def put up a better run then bass.

And as for other fish such as Pike, Muskie, & carp altho not very good eating, they take patience and skill to catch and hooking a 20 pound muskie will blow your mind and test your skill.

[Copespitter]

I could see how the casual fisherman could think that bass fishing is overrated but someone that targets these fish specifically knows how much skill and knowledge it takes to be competitive at tournament fishing.
Anybody can catch them at times but in order to compete in tournaments with other highly skilled bass fisherman it takes alot of time on the water and a vast aray of lures and techniques to win.
Its not about catching 100 fish its about catching the five biggest and the satisfaction of whipping the entire field.
Tournament bass fishing is about the competition and not the neccessarily the catching.

There might be times when bass are jumping on the hook but there are times when only dynamite will work. Its not as easy as some of you claim.

Anybody that uses bait, trolls or fly fishes is a joke in my opinion. Anybody can troll or cast a chunk of liver out and wait for the fish because it takes little skill or knowledge. Fly fishing takes some skill and knowledge but when you don't need 200 horses to get you around it takes away half the fun.

Table fair?? Bass fisherman generally throw everything back because were not fishing for food.
Sure, musky are hard to catch but there are alot less of them.
The hardest thing about pan fishing is locating the school and once you do that you load up on em.

If you want a fight you can trophy bass fish and target 10-20 pound bass. There's alot of guys doing it in CA and it takes alot of patience and skill to master.

[Pronto]

after reading these posts i am going to have to broaden my horizons. i am primarily a "rat fish" lmb fisherman. what kind of fish do you guys think i should tackle this year? what fish presents the biggest challenge?

i am in north Texas so my species include: catfish, stripped bass, hybrids, perch, sunfish, gar, carp, drum, small mouth....maybe some others>>?

smallmouth around here are in very limited numbers. i think if i caught one of those i would be happy.

any tips/suggestions?>

[Nainoa]

after reading these posts i am going to have to broaden my horizons. i am primarily a "rat fish" lmb fisherman. what kind of fish do you guys think i should tackle this year? what fish presents the biggest challenge?

i am in north Texas so my species include: catfish, stripped bass, hybrids, perch, sunfish, gar, carp, drum, small mouth....maybe some others>>?

smallmouth around here are in very limited numbers. i think if i caught one of those i would be happy.

any tips/suggestions?>


I know that if I lived in Texas I would dabble around in and learn how to fish Aligator Gar... But I would definitely study up and find a guide to teach me the ropes. And I know that AG's are more of a seasonal fish...

Sunnies and Perch are nice pan fish... But IIRC, there's some champion Crappie Lakes in North Texas... So were I in your shoes I'd try to find a good Crappie lake near by...

And small mouth of course are a blast!

[Hartski]

No way...LM Bass are not overrated! I would have to say rainbow trout are the most overrated fish. They can't fight for ****, I feel nothing when reeling them in. They're very popular game fish here in California, but I stick to LM Bass fishing.

Yeah, but I think the whole experience of fly fishing for trout in a pristine mountain stream would more than make up for it's lack of fight. I mean, I can just look at a picture of someone standing in the middle of a trout stream and instantly wish I was there.

http://www.trystevents.com/images/fly_fishing.jpg

[Nainoa]

I could see how the casual fisherman could think that bass fishing is overrated but someone that targets these fish specifically knows how much skill and knowledge it takes to be competitive at tournament fishing.
Anybody can catch them at times but in order to compete in tournaments with other highly skilled bass fisherman it takes alot of time on the water and a vast aray of lures and techniques to win.
Its not about catching 100 fish its about catching the five biggest and the satisfaction of whipping the entire field.
Tournament bass fishing is about the competition and not the neccessarily the catching.

There might be times when bass are jumping on the hook but there are times when only dynamite will work. Its not as easy as some of you claim.

Anybody that uses bait, trolls or fly fishes is a joke in my opinion. Anybody can troll or cast a chunk of liver out and wait for the fish because it takes little skill or knowledge. Fly fishing takes some skill and knowledge but when you don't need 200 horses to get you around it takes away half the fun.

Table fair?? Bass fisherman generally throw everything back because were not fishing for food.
Sure, musky are hard to catch but there are alot less of them.
The hardest thing about pan fishing is locating the school and once you do that you load up on em.

If you want a fight you can trophy bass fish and target 10-20 pound bass. There's alot of guys doing it in CA and it takes alot of patience and skill to master.

If you came to Minnesota, the Land of 10,000 lakes, where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a master angler, and walked into a sportsmen's bar expressing these same sentiments you would be laughed out of the place.

See I think you have this completely backwards...

A guy who focuses on one single species of fish is a "Casual Angler." He has one focus, one target, and a handful of tricks in his highly limited bag.

Tournament Anglers fish COMPETELY DIFFERENTLY than a Multi-Species Angler who doesn't make his living fishing.

The reason a Tournament Angler fishes the way he does is because his focus is completely on speed, and hoping that the structure he's targeting will reveal a large fish... And even then he's only taking advantage of the large size fish that can be created by the year round growing season of southern lakes.

***
As for these other method's of fishing...

Fly fishing is one of the most technical and advanced forms of fishing, and while I'm not a fly fisherman myself, I highly respect the ART FORM that is fly fishing.

Trolling, I can see how to someone who doesn't know how to fish any more than what he sees on Bass Tournament shows that Trolling appears to be a matter or just sitting there, waiting for fish to bite... But the fact is that to effectively troll you have to read the structure of the lake, understand where you're putting the boat, where the bait is going, and running it to the proper depth... Trolling effectively and productively is a matter of mastering the most difficult task in angling which is BOAT CONTROL.

Using Bait, is the oldest form of fishing, other than Spearing... You have to know which bait for which species at which time, in which conditions, and when it doesn't produce you have to know what to switch to... Reading the reactions of the fish in question.

And where are you picking out 20 pound largemouths... Considering that to exceed 10 pounds most people fly in to lake El Salto Mexico.


****
If you really want to understand what angling for these other fresh water species is about, I highly recommend that you charter one of those Canadian fishing trips, fly up to the Candaian Shield, stay at a lodge, where they take you on a guided fishing tour in a boat with a 40 Horse motor... Fly back and tell me that you still prefer tournament style bass fishing to what you caught up there.

[Hartski]

Fly fishing is one of the most technical and advanced forms of fishing, and while I'm not a fly fisherman myself, I highly respect the ART FORM that is fly fishing.



No doubt. I've never actually been fly fishing, but one of my sister's boyfriends lived with us for a while, and he was really into it. He taught me the basics on our lawn. He set a beer can on the lawn a ways from me, and i had to try and hit it every time while I moved back and forth.

He said I took to it naturally and was surprised how quickly I learned.


There's a trout stream here in Cedar Rapids (Yeah, right in the city limits) and I've been wanting to gear up and try it for real.

[Nainoa]

No doubt. I've never actually been fly fishing, but one of my sister's boyfriends lived with us for a while, and he was really into it. He taught me the basics on our lawn. He set a beer can on the lawn a ways from me, and i had to try and hit it every time while I moved back and forth.

He said I took to it naturally and was surprised how quickly I learned.


There's a trout stream here in Cedar Rapids (Yeah, right in the city limits) and I've been wanting to gear up and try it for real.

Well considering that you've mentioned getting motion sick on boats in the past, and have a nack for fly fishing, I would go that route...

And you know you can go for more than just trout fly fishing...
The whole range of Pan fish, when they're on shallows will be baited by Flyfishing...
Some expert Musky Hunters will power up special fly rods and go after Musky...
LM Bass will hit anything...

Hell I say give it a try... Really what does it cost you other than time, and like $150 in gear!

[Revolver45]

I'm gonna go with largemouth bass as well, I still enjoy catching them but compared to smallies they fall very short.

May sound gay but I htink sunfish are very underrated, if you can find a school of good sized sunfish they're easy and fun as hell to catch.

[Hartski]

Well considering that you've mentioned getting motion sick on boats in the past, and have a nack for fly fishing, I would go that route...



I don't get motion sick, I just don't like being stuck in a boat and not being able to leave when I want to. I'm the same way with riding in cars with people. I'd rather spend the money on gas and drive myself, because I hate having to wait for people when I want to leave. :D

[Nainoa]

I don't get motion sick, I just don't like being stuck in a boat and not being able to leave when I want to. I'm the same way with riding in cars with people. I'd rather spend the money on gas and drive myself, because I hate having to wait for people when I want to leave. :D

Why not get your own little fishing boat then?

I mean really I went the 10K new boat route, because of all the features and such that I wanted. But really, for like a Thousand dollars you could get a nice used 20 horse tiller, that if you're a casual angler will last you for 5-10 years.

[Hartski]

Why not get your own little fishing boat then?



The Intrepid's been in the river once already, and I don't think she liked it. :o

Things will be different when I get a place of my own and a truck, though. A new jonboat and used motor will most likely be my first setup.

[Copespitter]

If you came to Minnesota, the Land of 10,000 lakes, where you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a master angler, and walked into a sportsmen's bar expressing these same sentiments you would be laughed out of the place.

See I think you have this completely backwards...

A guy who focuses on one single species of fish is a "Casual Angler." He has one focus, one target, and a handful of tricks in his highly limited bag.

Tournament Anglers fish COMPETELY DIFFERENTLY than a Multi-Species Angler who doesn't make his living fishing.

The reason a Tournament Angler fishes the way he does is because his focus is completely on speed, and hoping that the structure he's targeting will reveal a large fish... And even then he's only taking advantage of the large size fish that can be created by the year round growing season of southern lakes.

***
As for these other method's of fishing...

Fly fishing is one of the most technical and advanced forms of fishing, and while I'm not a fly fisherman myself, I highly respect the ART FORM that is fly fishing.

Trolling, I can see how to someone who doesn't know how to fish any more than what he sees on Bass Tournament shows that Trolling appears to be a matter or just sitting there, waiting for fish to bite... But the fact is that to effectively troll you have to read the structure of the lake, understand where you're putting the boat, where the bait is going, and running it to the proper depth... Trolling effectively and productively is a matter of mastering the most difficult task in angling which is BOAT CONTROL.

Using Bait, is the oldest form of fishing, other than Spearing... You have to know which bait for which species at which time, in which conditions, and when it doesn't produce you have to know what to switch to... Reading the reactions of the fish in question.

And where are you picking out 20 pound largemouths... Considering that to exceed 10 pounds most people fly in to lake El Salto Mexico.


****
If you really want to understand what angling for these other fresh water species is about, I highly recommend that you charter one of those Canadian fishing trips, fly up to the Candaian Shield, stay at a lodge, where they take you on a guided fishing tour in a boat with a 40 Horse motor... Fly back and tell me that you still prefer tournament style bass fishing to what you caught up there.

Sounds like you know your **** when it comes to fishing.

Your wrong in your assumption that tournament bass anglers have a hand full of tricks in a limited bag.
A good percentage of the lures and techniques these guys use will effectively catch most other species of fish and since their skills are often more developed than anglers that fish for other types of fish they automatically have an advantage.
I've seen to many people that fish for other types of fish that didn't have a clue. They usually fish with sub par equipment and they rarely keep in touch with their lure. They just cast it out and wind it back with little regard how the lure is working or if its making contact with strcuture or the bottom.

I can fish just about any lure made whether its a mepps spinner or a swim bait. I can catch fish if their 1' deep or 60' deep. I can jig a spoon 50' deep or walk a zara spook across the top. Winter, Spring, Fall or Summer I can usually locate fish. How many of these "other species" fisherman can do that? The better anglers that dedicate themselves to these other species can but there is alot less of them out there than serious bass fisherman.
Usually guys start out fishing for other species but eventually turn to bass because its the most challenging species there is. Their the most challenging because if you want to be succesful at the sport you have to learn to catch them year round. Most "other species" fisherman pack it up when the weather changes for the worse or the fish quit running and disappear.

I fish for other species because I get burned out on bass. Other species are fun but I always go back to bass fishing for the competition.
If i'm just fun fishing stripers are hard to beat. They run up the rivers in the summer and when they get above 10 pounds there very hard to fool mainly because the water is so clear. I'll rip a suspending rattlin rougue over a flat and stop it and then a couple 10-20 lb stripers will be following right behind it. Most of the times those bastards will just nip at it but when they decide to take it the fight is on.

I'm not in to taking guided trips to lakes that receive little fishing pressure. Its fun to catch a mess of fish but I don't get much out of it. You learn very little because usually only one technique is required to catch fish all day long.

I don't know why guys go on those guided salmon fishing trips. If the fishing is good they can catch a fish on every cast and after the first ten fish it turns into work instead of "fishing".

I'm not catching 20 pounders but usually one or two a year is caught by some of the "trophy hunters" here in CA.
Nothing over 19 lbs has been caught in my area but in SoCal the record is a tad over 22 lbs. 4 more ounces it would have been a world record.
The lakes in Mexico have big bass but most people think it stays to hot down there year round to turn out a world record.

[SPAM]

trouts. they are cool to catch but they dont put up fights.

now king salmon....they put up fights.

[Zercher Yoke]

The most underrated is trevally IMO. Eat them fresh or freeze them straight away make sure you bleed them good.

[Geno]

I don't buy into the whole "overrated" thing because it just sounds like insulting someone and their sport. Not interested in doing that. I truly love to catch marlin (the most fun one can have) but yellowfin and bluefin tuna are my favorite fish. I am not about to eat a marlin but a tuna over about a hundred pounds is going to fight as well as anything in the water and provide truly delicious meals for my bunch over the course of several months.

[Nainoa]

Sounds like you know your **** when it comes to fishing.

Your wrong in your assumption that tournament bass anglers have a hand full of tricks in a limited bag.
A good percentage of the lures and techniques these guys use will effectively catch most other species of fish and since their skills are often more developed than anglers that fish for other types of fish they automatically have an advantage.
I've seen to many people that fish for other types of fish that didn't have a clue. They usually fish with sub par equipment and they rarely keep in touch with their lure. They just cast it out and wind it back with little regard how the lure is working or if its making contact with strcuture or the bottom.

I can fish just about any lure made whether its a mepps spinner or a swim bait. I can catch fish if their 1' deep or 60' deep. I can jig a spoon 50' deep or walk a zara spook across the top. Winter, Spring, Fall or Summer I can usually locate fish. How many of these "other species" fisherman can do that? The better anglers that dedicate themselves to these other species can but there is alot less of them out there than serious bass fisherman.
Usually guys start out fishing for other species but eventually turn to bass because its the most challenging species there is. Their the most challenging because if you want to be succesful at the sport you have to learn to catch them year round. Most "other species" fisherman pack it up when the weather changes for the worse or the fish quit running and disappear.

I fish for other species because I get burned out on bass. Other species are fun but I always go back to bass fishing for the competition.
If i'm just fun fishing stripers are hard to beat. They run up the rivers in the summer and when they get above 10 pounds there very hard to fool mainly because the water is so clear. I'll rip a suspending rattlin rougue over a flat and stop it and then a couple 10-20 lb stripers will be following right behind it. Most of the times those bastards will just nip at it but when they decide to take it the fight is on.

I'm not in to taking guided trips to lakes that receive little fishing pressure. Its fun to catch a mess of fish but I don't get much out of it. You learn very little because usually only one technique is required to catch fish all day long.

I don't know why guys go on those guided salmon fishing trips. If the fishing is good they can catch a fish on every cast and after the first ten fish it turns into work instead of "fishing".

I'm not catching 20 pounders but usually one or two a year is caught by some of the "trophy hunters" here in CA.
Nothing over 19 lbs has been caught in my area but in SoCal the record is a tad over 22 lbs. 4 more ounces it would have been a world record.
The lakes in Mexico have big bass but most people think it stays to hot down there year round to turn out a world record.


I'll try to take this point by point...

First... I'm sure that Bass Tournament Anglers as individuals have more in their bag... However that style of fishing is as narrowed down and skilless (From an angling perspective) as one can get... There's more challenge in making sure you don't get a backlash, and keeping your 225 Ranger from chine walking, than there is from casting crankbaits at weedlines and docks all day long.

***
Second... When you say:
I can fish just about any lure made whether its a mepps spinner or a swim bait. I can catch fish if their 1' deep or 60' deep. I can jig a spoon 50' deep or walk a zara spook across the top. Winter, Spring, Fall or Summer I can usually locate fish. How many of these "other species" fisherman can do that? The better anglers that dedicate themselves to these other species can but there is alot less of them out there than serious bass fisherman.
Usually guys start out fishing for other species but eventually turn to bass because its the most challenging species there is. Their the most challenging because if you want to be succesful at the sport you have to learn to catch them year round. Most "other species" fisherman pack it up when the weather changes for the worse or the fish quit running and disappear.

For any multi-species angler this is true... ****... For just guys who fish Walleye this is true... The whole point of a multi-species angler is to be able to adapt successfully, from species to species, condition to condition, lake to lake, equipment to equipment.


It's also worth noting that when you talk about these depths of 50 and 60 feet, that these are pointless depths to present bait at... Other than HUGE lakes, like the great lakes, and possibly a few other HUGE lakes, the thermocline (Which is the layer in the water column where oxygen exists in sufficient temperature for the fish to be able to breathe) Rarely does it ever extend deeper than 25-40 feet, depending on the lake and the weather conditions of the area. So fishing at 60' on small water is just a matter of dragging your lure through the muck of fish that died over the centuries.


***

Third:
I'm not in to taking guided trips to lakes that receive little fishing pressure. Its fun to catch a mess of fish but I don't get much out of it. You learn very little because usually only one technique is required to catch fish all day long.

I don't know why guys go on those guided salmon fishing trips. If the fishing is good they can catch a fish on every cast and after the first ten fish it turns into work instead of "fishing".
*

Okay... This is simply untrue... The reality is that the majority of the time through out a day of fishing you have to change presentation, bait and style... The fact that you are seemingly unaware of this is a measure of how much your singular pursuit of bass fishing has clouded your perception of what fishing really is. LM bass as a species are one of the fish that require the least amount of change because they will bite on anything...

Guides are putting you on the successful fishing spots, because they know the area... Learning a new water takes time... Hell it's damn near impossible to really learn a new body of water on your own in just 1 or 2 trips... It becomes a matter of educated guess work, using your maps and electronics... Where as a guide knows the area and can put you on the hot spot.

***
As for catching fish on every cast being a bad thing...

WTF? That's the ultimate day of fishing... When hot streaks like that happen one should NEVER complain about them.

[The Big Unit]

You haven't fished untill you hook that tailing red in the flats on an 8 weight with 12 lb tippet and have 100 yards of backing ripped off.

Or when you wade out to the 2nd bar and chunck a piece of bait towards the sun. Then next thing you know a 60 lb rated rod is bending in half and you're watching 300 yards of 35 lb line dissappearing in about 20 seconds. What is it? Can't tell. We can get tiger, bull, blacktip, mako, nurse sharks. Or it could be a 400 lb jewfish (grouper) or it could also be 250 lb stingray. It's fantastic!

Long live saltwater fishing.

BTW, I do love my northern pike though. I don't live around any anymore, but I still have 10 grand worth of jerbaits sitting in the garage.

[Nainoa]

BTW, I do love my northern pike though. I don't live around any anymore, but I still have 10 grand worth of jerbaits sitting in the garage.


:eek:

You have 10 Grand in Jerkbaits!

Holy Hell man, how did you get that much... I mean didn't you think when you got to the first $1,000 that you had enough, to not warrant the other 9 grand!
LOL
:D

Did you ever go Musky Fishing when you were around "Pike-ish" waters?

[The Big Unit]

:eek:

You have 10 Grand in Jerkbaits!

Holy Hell man, how did you get that much... I mean didn't you think when you got to the first $1,000 that you had enough, to not warrant the other 9 grand!
LOL
:D

Did you ever go Musky Fishing when you were around "Pike-ish" waters?
I wish, no muskys in Europe unfortunately. It kind of became an addiction. Actually I need to clarify. When I say 10 grand I mean, bucktails, surface, poppers, crankbaits, jerbaits, twitchbaits and any other kind of lure you can imagine.

My best lure all time was 9" weighted Suick in a gold/copper color. Also got a lot of action on a 8" Cobb.

[Nainoa]

I wish, no muskys in Europe unfortunately. It kind of became an addiction. Actually I need to clarify. When I say 10 grand I mean, bucktails, surface, poppers, crankbaits, jerbaits, twitchbaits and any other kind of lure you can imagine.

My best lure all time was 9" weighted Suick in a gold/copper color. Also got a lot of action on a 8" Cobb.

Ah You were in Europe...

Yeah I was astonished when I heard that they have pike in Europe... And then extra astonished that they don't have Musky... As Musky and Pike are very closely related and both come from a now extinct subspecies that they believe originated in Eastern Russia/Western Siberia... Making their migrations 12-16,000 years ago... (Roughly at the same time we did.)

I would be fascinated at the genetic differences between the two "Brands" of Pike from Europe to America... Esepecially when you consider that they've found a vast genetic differece between Musky and pike from different parts of Minnesota and different parts of Wisconsin.

[Hartski]

I wish, no muskys in Europe unfortunately. It kind of became an addiction. Actually I need to clarify. When I say 10 grand I mean, bucktails, surface, poppers, crankbaits, jerbaits, twitchbaits and any other kind of lure you can imagine.

My best lure all time was 9" weighted Suick in a gold/copper color. Also got a lot of action on a 8" Cobb.

Still. if you say you have 10 grand worth of fishing gear, there should be a boat included in the list somewhere.:D

[TheBourne]

Still. if you say you have 10 grand worth of fishing gear, there should be a boat included in the list somewhere.:D

Exactly, or a humongous spool of fishing line

[Nainoa]

Exactly, or a humongous spool of fishing line

If he had 10 grand worth of fishingline he could still be fishing in Europe, as he'd have enough line to span the Atlantic!
;)

[The Big Unit]

Still. if you say you have 10 grand worth of fishing gear, there should be a boat included in the list somewhere.:D
That 10 grand is only my pike tackle and has been built up over years and years.
I have a lot more.

Boat is next on the list. Looking at a 30' with twin 225's.

[Nainoa]

That 10 grand is only my pike tackle and has been built up over years and years.
I have a lot more.

Boat is next on the list. Looking at a 30' with twin 225's.

Now I'm curious as to what the inventory list on this looks like...

227 #4 Mepps Algolia Spinners
718 Husky Jerk Glass shad Raps
137 Chartruese Pulsators with Mimic Minnow

I mean 10K Bro... Crap... Right now I'm a Tackle Horse, as my moto is "There's no such thing as too much tackle." And right now I probably have around $600-$700 in tackle... And probably lost $300 in the last 5 years... Though every year that goes by I lose less and less...

In fact in 2005, I didn't lose a single lure, just jig heads bobbers, lindy rigs and the like... All totalling $30... And that was in 200+ Hours I put in on the water last year.

***
I mean how in the sweet hell do you organize all of this, considering 10K worth of lures would fill an area like the size of a bedroom!

[The Big Unit]

Now I'm curious as to what the inventory list on this looks like...

227 #4 Mepps Algolia Spinners
718 Husky Jerk Glass shad Raps
137 Chartruese Pulsators with Mimic Minnow

I mean 10K Bro... Crap... Right now I'm a Tackle Horse, as my moto is "There's no such thing as too much tackle." And right now I probably have around $600-$700 in tackle... And probably lost $300 in the last 5 years... Though every year that goes by I lose less and less...

In fact in 2005, I didn't lose a single lure, just jig heads bobbers, lindy rigs and the like... All totalling $30... And that was in 200+ Hours I put in on the water last year.

***
I mean how in the sweet hell do you organize all of this, considering 10K worth of lures would fill an area like the size of a bedroom!
2 Custom 6'6" Loomis
2 Shimano Calcutta 400 filled with Power Pro
Pretty much every Rapala Jointed, Magnum, Shad Rap, Super Shad Rap and Husky Jerk ever made.
Pretty much every Suick 9" weighted and unweighted
A butt load of Cobbs (These used to be $45 each!)
All kinds and sizes of Reapers, Grandma's, Swimm Whizz, Bobbie Baits, etc...
All these were $30 and up at the time. It adds up quickly really it does.

[Copespitter]

I'll try to take this point by point...

First... I'm sure that Bass Tournament Anglers as individuals have more in their bag... However that style of fishing is as narrowed down and skilless (From an angling perspective) as one can get... There's more challenge in making sure you don't get a backlash, and keeping your 225 Ranger from chine walking, than there is from casting crankbaits at weedlines and docks all day long.

***
Second... When you say:
I can fish just about any lure made whether its a mepps spinner or a swim bait. I can catch fish if their 1' deep or 60' deep. I can jig a spoon 50' deep or walk a zara spook across the top. Winter, Spring, Fall or Summer I can usually locate fish. How many of these "other species" fisherman can do that? The better anglers that dedicate themselves to these other species can but there is alot less of them out there than serious bass fisherman.
Usually guys start out fishing for other species but eventually turn to bass because its the most challenging species there is. Their the most challenging because if you want to be succesful at the sport you have to learn to catch them year round. Most "other species" fisherman pack it up when the weather changes for the worse or the fish quit running and disappear.

For any multi-species angler this is true... ****... For just guys who fish Walleye this is true... The whole point of a multi-species angler is to be able to adapt successfully, from species to species, condition to condition, lake to lake, equipment to equipment.


It's also worth noting that when you talk about these depths of 50 and 60 feet, that these are pointless depths to present bait at... Other than HUGE lakes, like the great lakes, and possibly a few other HUGE lakes, the thermocline (Which is the layer in the water column where oxygen exists in sufficient temperature for the fish to be able to breathe) Rarely does it ever extend deeper than 25-40 feet, depending on the lake and the weather conditions of the area. So fishing at 60' on small water is just a matter of dragging your lure through the muck of fish that died over the centuries.


***

Third:
I'm not in to taking guided trips to lakes that receive little fishing pressure. Its fun to catch a mess of fish but I don't get much out of it. You learn very little because usually only one technique is required to catch fish all day long.

I don't know why guys go on those guided salmon fishing trips. If the fishing is good they can catch a fish on every cast and after the first ten fish it turns into work instead of "fishing".
*

Okay... This is simply untrue... The reality is that the majority of the time through out a day of fishing you have to change presentation, bait and style... The fact that you are seemingly unaware of this is a measure of how much your singular pursuit of bass fishing has clouded your perception of what fishing really is. LM bass as a species are one of the fish that require the least amount of change because they will bite on anything...

Guides are putting you on the successful fishing spots, because they know the area... Learning a new water takes time... Hell it's damn near impossible to really learn a new body of water on your own in just 1 or 2 trips... It becomes a matter of educated guess work, using your maps and electronics... Where as a guide knows the area and can put you on the hot spot.

***
As for catching fish on every cast being a bad thing...

WTF? That's the ultimate day of fishing... When hot streaks like that happen one should NEVER complain about them.


Like I said before you know your **** for the most part :).

You underestimate the abilities of a skilled bass fisherman just like I underestimate the abilities of a skilled angler that fishes for a different species. Bottomline your either good at fishing or your not whatever you fish for.
I just think bass fisherman have to learn alot more because its required to tournament fish or your going to lose alot of money.

Here in CA our lakes are several hundred feet deep. In the wintertime bass hold in 50'-60' of water because that's where most of the shad are located.
There's a lake not to far from me where the stripers are caught 125' deep. I didn't think fish would hold that deep but they do.

I'm still not interested in having a guide show me where and what to use to catch fish. If a guide takes away those two aspects of fishing then it turns into just catching and for me that takes away most of the satisfaction i'm going to get out of the trip.

Bass might seem dumb and easy to catch because you have 10,000 lakes and the guys that do fish are fishing for something else other then bass.
Lack of pressure will make a fish dumb.
Come on out to CA and see how dumb they are.......
I'm guessing Minnesotans have it to easy when it comes to fishing and might suffer the fact because they don't have to learn the "bag of tricks" to catch fish. Go fish a bass tournament in Japan. You will be lucky to catch a fish. The lakes are few and small in size. In some tournaments there's a boat within casting distance all around the lake.
The guys fishing those tourneys are highly developed and have an extreme amount of patience. They are forced to sit in a spot all day and are fortunate to catch two fish. I know I would get my ass handed to me if I competed against them on their home water.

Since bass are so dumb you and all of the highly skilled anglers from Minnesota should be able to buy a bassboat and fish B.A.S.S. or FLW tournaments and take everybodys money.

There's a reason why people from around the country book vacations to fish in Minnesota and its not to test their fishing skills.

[Nainoa]

Like I said before you know your **** for the most part :).

You underestimate the abilities of a skilled bass fisherman just like I underestimate the abilities of a skilled angler that fishes for a different species. Bottomline your either good at fishing or your not whatever you fish for.
I just think bass fisherman have to learn alot more because its required to tournament fish or your going to lose alot of money.

Here in CA our lakes are several hundred feet deep. In the wintertime bass hold in 50'-60' of water because that's where most of the shad are located.
There's a lake not to far from me where the stripers are caught 125' deep. I didn't think fish would hold that deep but they do.

I'm still not interested in having a guide show me where and what to use to catch fish. If a guide takes away those two aspects of fishing then it turns into just catching and for me that takes away most of the satisfaction i'm going to get out of the trip.

Bass might seem dumb and easy to catch because you have 10,000 lakes and the guys that do fish are fishing for something else other then bass.
Lack of pressure will make a fish dumb.
Come on out to CA and see how dumb they are.......
I'm guessing Minnesotans have it to easy when it comes to fishing and might suffer the fact because they don't have to learn the "bag of tricks" to catch fish. Go fish a bass tournament in Japan. You will be lucky to catch a fish. The lakes are few and small in size. In some tournaments there's a boat within casting distance all around the lake.
The guys fishing those tourneys are highly developed and have an extreme amount of patience. They are forced to sit in a spot all day and are fortunate to catch two fish. I know I would get my ass handed to me if I competed against them on their home water.

Since bass are so dumb you and all of the highly skilled anglers from Minnesota should be able to buy a bassboat and fish B.A.S.S. or FLW tournaments and take everybodys money.

There's a reason why people from around the country book vacations to fish in Minnesota and its not to test their fishing skills.

See the area where you're making the mistake in logic is thinking that bass fishing tournament style is how bass fishing is actually done...

Bass fishing and tournament fishing are different things... It's like saying that all birds are Eagles.

The style of fishing you see in tournaments is just "The fastest way to Bass Fish."

And for that style of fishing... Of course they're experts...

You should also be aware that there are other pro-tournaments out there, you just don't get them televised in your area because those fish aren't present in your DMA, so no one televises the Walleye Pro Tour and the Musky Pro Tour. (I work in advertising.)

The WTT and the MTT got going on their own with only minor support of sponsors... FLW tried getting going on it's own with only minor support from sponsors, and failed... So it had to take a page from NASCAR, and run itself Sponsor heavy... To get the most out of their money the sponsors pushed higher national advertising, thus developing the veiwing audience and expanding the fan base...

In short these Bass tours are just as manufactured as the Boy Bands of the late 1990's, except with a NASCAR and Fishing twist.

And even then when you compare what a WTT or an MTT Pro has to go through compared to an FLW bass tour pro, hands down the FLW tour guy is the lesser fisherman going for the lesser fish.

That's not to say that there's no respect to be had for a Bass fisherman... But to put Large Mouth Bass fishing at the top of the heap and calling it the most skilled type of fishing and the most fickle fish, is plain wrong.

****

But that's not really the point of this thread...

Really... Pro Fishing and Angler fishing are two different Dogs...

The species that each has to go after are different... But the bag of tricks you need whether you are a Pro or a Joe, is a smaller bag to catch Bass than it is Musky or Walleye... Hence why Musky are called "The Fish of 10,000 Casts." And Walleye Fishing is considered and Art Form.

***
60 years ago, modern bass fishing didn't even exist, as the crankbait revolution hadn't even come around... Back in the day the most effective method of catching large Mouths was "Grubbing." With the good old fashioned hook, worm and bait.

[Copespitter]

You bring up some valid points. I don't agree with everything you say.

You might need a smaller bag of tricks to catch a largemouth but there is definately a larger bag of tricks to learn to catch them if one chooses to.

Bass fishing is not always fast. There are plenty of times pros fish slow and in deeper lakes during the wintertime its almost required to fish slow.
ESPN only shows guys fishing fast because its not as boring to watch.

I don't know squat about Musky or Walleye. Maybe their smarter then your local bass is because they get all the pressure.
Probably all fish are equal in intelligence its just how much pressure they recieve that dictates how smart they are. If a fish see's the same lure 1000X odds are he's not going to hit it. Fishing pressure can drive a fish out of an area or just give them lockjaw.

There is alot more to bass fishing then what is shown on t.v.. I guess if I didn't know any better and watched the best bass pros running down the bank with their trolling motor on high picking off bass I to would also think like you. One tactic is to run on high all day and target only active fish but more often then not that doesn't work unless your Kevin van Dam. Alot of times it takes a painstacking slow approach to win a tourney. Other times you have to fish a ledge 50 yards offshore with a carolina rig. Its different all the time and the guy who figures them out the best will win.

There is more money in the FLW then B.A.S.S. because of the Nascar type sponsorship. FLW probably had a harder time breaking in because of B.A.S.S. so they had to go another route. When the WTT and the MTT came on the scene they probably didn't have a giant like B.A.S.S. to contend with so of course they had an easier time making it.
Since ESPN is running BASS into the ground and causing their top pros to jump ship to the FLW it won't be long until FLW is top dog.

It takes alot of skill to compete in any tournament whether its bass, walleye or musky. I just know there are alot of lures, presentations, and seasonal knowledge that bass pros have to attain in order to compete year round.

Maybe some of the presentations have to be mastered in order to catch the larger walleye or musky but I doubt the amount of presentations to catch those fish are not comprable to the amount of presentations a bass fisherman has to learn to compete. I have learned so many ways to catch bass its disguisting. Maybe there's to many and it should be simplified.

I can see your side of the argument because in your state bass are considered trash but if you lived in Texas, Florida or California you would know where i'm coming from.