@@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@

[pogue]

I've noticed lately that there have been a lot of questions about gyno (gynecomastia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia)) being posted in the forum. A lot of people are using some of the newer prohormones/prosteroids such as Superdrol (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=607842) and including them in your stacks. Many of these compounds we have no idea what their binding capability is to the estrogen or progesterone receptor and how it might effect you or your body in the course of a cycle and afterwards.

That is not to say that these compounds might not be potent anabolics, but because of how they are developed, we cannot say much about them because there is very little to no research on them to give a conclusive answer to those questions.

Because of this, it is always important to be safe and keep an estrogen antagonist such as Nolvadex/Clomid on hand during a cycle, as well as an aromatese inhibitor such as Arimidex/Femera on hand during and after your cycles. This also goes for people who run regular cycles, (test/eq/dbol, etc).

Once you have developed gyno, it can be very hard to get rid of it so the best treatment is prevention. At the first sign of gyno, it is critical to start using an anti-estrogen of some type to halt the breast growth that is occurring. Because there are different actions that cause gyno, such as directly from estrogenic pathways or simply from subcutaneous fat, it is sometimes hard to tell which you have and how to treat it on your own.

If you are concerned about this, or if you have had gyno in the past, or gyno during your teenage years, it might be best to do full blood work before, during and after your cycles to determine your hormone levels and adjust your dosages of what you're using based on that. An endocrinologist would be the type of doctor to see about this. Or, you can pay for the tests online and submit them locally. A few sites that sell blood tests are:

http://www.health-tests-direct.com/

Life Extension Blood Tests (http://pogue.to/lef/bloodtests/)

**NEW!** MedLabUSA Blood Tests (http://www.bodybuilding-cyberstore.com/store/medlabusa/medlabusa.htm) Available from Bodybuilding.com

Once you have gyno it can be very hard to treat it yourself. What works for some people may not work for others, and you can spend a great deal of money trying to treat the gyno yourself when you could have spent that same amount of money on surgery to have it reminded. (Gyno surgery usually costs between $1,000 and $5,000). Also, keep in mind that even after you have the surgery that it is still possible for the gyno to reoccur if you continue to use anabolics.

For more information see:

Gyno FAQ (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=123045)
Gynecomastia.org (http://www.gynecomastia.org/)
eMedicine - Gynecomastia (http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic934.htm)
Men's Health Article on gynecomastia (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_7_18/ai_88583532)
Zinc might help prevent Gynecomastia (http://www.musclephotos.com/zinc.html)
bad4ego's gyno surgery experience (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=818163)


If you wish to contribute to this thread, please feel free to do so. But I would appreciate it if you would keep the kudos to a minimum (ie: nice thread, great thread, sticky this!, etc) and only post if you have some relevant info to do so. I appreciate your thanks, but I'd like to keep this thread clean and with good info so we can either sticky it or move it to the 'best of' section. Thanks.

[Shike]

Tamoxifen has always been the SERM of choice for PCT and people trying to battle gynecomastia because it is so easily available. Second generation SERMs, such as Raloxifene, have come around and shown in some studies to be a bit more effective at targetting breast tissue than Tamoxifen. Perhaps asking your Doctor for a prescription of Raloxifene before opting for surgery might be a wise course?

Here is the abstract from one study showing the eficacy of Nolva(Tamoxifen) compared to Raloxifene when battling persistent pubertal gynecomastia.
Abstract
Objectives
To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifen in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

Study design
Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

Results
Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

Conclusion
Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.


Link to study (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WKR-4CSCVC5-17&_user=10&_coverDate=07%2F31%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=summary&_orig=browse&_qd=1&_cdi=6913&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=dbc42c8bf78cf5ffd2616d14c6f96e4d)

Pogue, please delete this response if you don't deem appropriate.

[pogue]

Here are some studies posted by ergoman500 at Avant's board on gyno treatment and causes.


This study below, and dozens of other small studies lasting 3-12 months, all show at least a 65-70% overall success rate in complete reversal of gynecomastia. Overall, the best results appear in those using 40-60mg of tamoxifen/day for over 4-5 months.

Suprisingly, only about 10-15% of subjects typically experience any rebound in tissue growth or estrogen levels after stopping tamoxifen use. Using clomiphene citrate along with or instead of tamoxifen helps increase the success rate to over 85%.


Metabolism. 1986 Aug;35(8):705-8.

Treatment of gynecomastia with tamoxifen: a double-blind crossover study.

Parker LN, Gray DR, Lai MK, Levin ER.

Benign asymptomatic or painful enlargement of the male breast is a common problem, postulated to be due to an increased estrogen/testosterone ration or due to increased estrogenic or decreased androgenic stimulation via estrogen or androgen receptor interactions. Treatment at present consists of analgesic medication or surgery. However, treatment directed against the preponderance of estrogenic stimulation would seem to represent a more specific form of therapy. In the present double-blind crossover study, one-month courses of a placebo or the antiestrogen tamoxifen (10 mg given orally bid) were compared in random order. Seven of ten patients experienced a decrease in the size of their gynecomastia due to tamoxifen (P less than 0.005). Overall, the decrease for gynecomastia for the whole group was significant (P less than 0.01). There was no beneficial effect of placebo (P greater than 0.1). Additionally, all four patients with painful gynecomastia experienced symptomatic relief. There was no toxicity. The reduction of breast size was partial and may indicate the need for a longer course of therapy. A followup examination was performed in eight out of ten patients nine months to one year after discontinuing placebo and tamoxifen. There were no significant changes from the end of the initial study period except for one tamoxifen responder who developed a recurrence of breast tenderness after six months, and one nonresponder who demonstrated an increase in breast size and a new onset of tenderness after ten months. Therefore, antiestrogenic treatment with tamoxifen may represent a safe and effective mode of treatment for selected cases of cosmetically disturbing or painful gynecomastia.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 3526085 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



If one developed a mild case of gyno about 5 months ago, would it be too late for clomid or nolva to get rid of this. (At the time I just thought it was fat) If so would one be better and what dosing?

thanks
Of note, is that many who are successfully treated using tamoxifen have had the condition for several years prior to regression...IMO, 90% of men can prevent the need for surgery by incorporating various treatments for at least 9 months continuously...Also, many of the studies considered "chest fat" to be just as responsive to treatment as those with severe breast tumour growth...


Clin Ther. 1987;9(5):483-7.

Idiopathic gynecomastia treated with tamoxifen: a preliminary report.

Alagaratnam TT.

Department of Surgery, Queen Mary Hospital, University of Hong Kong.

Sixty-one Chinese men with idiopathic gynecomastia were treated with 40 mg of tamoxifen daily for one of four months (median, two months). Eighty percent had complete regression of their breast swelling. No long-term side effects of tamoxifen were observed over a median follow-up period of 36 months.

PMID: 3664552 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Below is some great info as to the various causes and types of gyno along with some hormonal data etc...


Int J Androl. 2002 Oct;25(5):312-6.

Causes of gynaecomastia in young adult males and factors associated with idiopathic gynaecomastia.

Ersoz H, Onde ME, Terekeci H, Kurtoglu S, Tor H.

Karadeniz Technical University, Faculty of Medicine, Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Trabzon, Turkey. hersoz@yahoo.com

Gynaecomastia is a common clinical condition. Persistent pubertal or late onset idiopathic gynaecomastia is the leading cause of gynaecomastia in different series. The aim of this study was the assessment of the prevalence and characteristics of different causes of gynaecomastia in young adult males, and evaluation of the factors associated with idiopathic gynaecomastia. Fifty-three male patients (mean age 22.04 +/- 2.22, range 19-29), who had been admitted to our outpatient clinics with gynaecomastia as the main presenting symptom were enrolled in the study. Patients were evaluated with breast palpation, breast ultrasonography, anthropometric measurements and sex steroid levels. Secondary causes of gynaecomastia were ruled out. Thirty age-matched healthy individuals were also studied as healthy control group. Idiopathic gynaecomastia was diagnosed in 31 of 53 patients (58%), with 17 (32%) persistent pubertal and 14 (24%) late onset course. Other causes of gynaecomastia were hypogonadism in 13 cases (25%), hyperprolactinaemia in five (9%), chronic liver disease in two (4%), and drug induced (prolonged use of H2 antagonists) in two (4%). Patients with idiopathic gynaecomastia, either pubertal or late onset, were compared with the healthy control group in order to find out associated factors. Anthropometric measurements revealed a significant increase in body weight and body mass index (BMI) in the patient group compared with healthy controls (72.4 +/- 13.3 vs. 63.6 +/- 7.9 kg, p = 0.0086 and 25.2 +/- 4.0 vs. 21.5 +/- 2.7 kg/m2, p = 0.0001). Total skin fold thickness (SFT) of four different regions were also higher in the patient group (50.9 +/- 22.1 vs. 32.6 +/- 10.2 mm, p = 0.0006) indicating a higher body fat percentage. Total serum testosterone (4.76 +/- 1.31 vs. 5.70 +/- 1.06 microg/mL, p = 0.0038) and luteinizing hormone (LH) (4.80 +/- 1.92 vs. 7.32 +/- 1.90 mIU/mL, p < 0.0001) levels were significantly lower in the patient group while oestradiol levels were similar. There was a significant correlation between total testosterone and LH levels (r = 0.27, p = 0.0445). Total testosterone and LH levels were negatively correlated with BMI and total SFT. As a result most common form of gynaecomastia is idiopathic gynaecomastia either as persistent pubertal or late onset forms in young adult males. Idiopathic gynaecomastia is closely correlated with generalized obesity, reduced LH and testosterone levels which may be the result of increased conversion of testosterone to oestradiol in increased adipose tissue mass.

PMID: 12270030 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Study: Endocrine treatment of physiological gynaecomastia (http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/327/7410/301) "Tamoxifen seems to be effective"

Original thread: Gyno Treatment (http://forum.avantlabs.com/index.php?showtopic=6414)

[bigtymn483]

I have had the surgery done this past summer to remove the lumps which were pretty big. I still have some fat around the tip of my chest that i cant seem to get rid of. Will shredding down and doing a winny/eq cycle help to remedy this problem or should i concentrate on heavy incline press and high reps on decline to shape it so it doesnt look as fatty?

[MurphMan]

I have had the surgery done this past summer to remove the lumps which were pretty big. I still have some fat around the tip of my chest that i cant seem to get rid of. Will shredding down and doing a winny/eq cycle help to remedy this problem or should i concentrate on heavy incline press and high reps on decline to shape it so it doesnt look as fatty?

No...diet and cardio will help you lose that fat, not Winny/EQ with high-rep inclines! :rolleyes:

[spikeduddle]

How long after you get off of your cycle will you see gyno occurr if it is going to.

[pogue]

How long after you get off of your cycle will you see gyno occurr if it is going to.

No way to know for sure. It depends on the hormone levels in your body and a lot of other factors, such as the length of the esters of the steroids you were using, the timing of PCT and etc.

[DrBermant]

Also, keep in mind that even after you have the surgery that it is still possible for the gyno to reoccur if you continue to use anabolics.

Gynecomastia Surgery Does Not Prevent Regrowth


I caution each of my patients that surgery does not typically stop male breast growth. If there is a problem with growing breasts, recurrence can happen (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/male_breast_regrowth.html). Any of these medical problems (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/causes_of_gynecomastia.html) and or these medications (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_causes.html) can cause gynecomastia. So, if you want to get worried about regrowth, you could get yourself evaluated for each of these conditions to see if they could be a factor.

Surgery also does not prevent weight gain in the chest. Men tend to put weight on the belly and chest regions. I educate each of my patients that this surgery will not prevent further breast growth. It is like changing/fixing a tire with a nail. Fixing/changing the tire will not prevent you from getting a new nail in that tire.

I take care of many patients with gynecomastia, as many as 8 in one day alone. With all the gynecomastia surgery I have done, it is very rare to have regrowth for patients I have sculpted. One patient (who had surgery on only side by another doctor) came to me with pro hormone induced gynecomastia that only came back on the side that had no surgery. His growth was massive on the one side and none on the other. His surgery by that other doctor had left a massive crater - the skin was adherent against the chest wall with normal fat surrounding the ugly deformity. One side looked like the deformity seen here (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/redo_gyno_complication.html). The other side was almost a B cup breast so tender that I could barely examine it. As with each patient who presented to me with current breast growth, he was referred for an endocrinology evaluation and stabilization before considering surgery. I do not know if such radical surgery was a factor or not. Even if it did, removing all fat under the skin just gives an unnatural look.

I prefer to target the gland first with my Dynamic Technique (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/chest_dynamic_sculpture.html). This permits me to remove most of the gland and then sculpt the remainng tissue to minimze contour problems. Any surgery technique, even radical breast mastectomy for male breast cancer can leave gland behind. The problem is that there are fine fingers of gland that dissect between fingers of fat and can extend quite far into the chest.

You can see what I mean by fingers of gland here. (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_anatomy.html)

By concentrating on the gland first I am able to minimize the chance of breast regrowth. It is very rare for my patients to have recurrence of their gynecomasia. However, gynecomastia surgery does not stop breast regrowth. For patients having breast growth, I have advised for many years that they should get their problem under control before surgery. There are exceptions, such as young men with massive breasts that have not stopped growing. That is why each case needs to be individually evaluated.

Prevention of gynecomastia, when possible, is much better.

Secondary Surgery (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/index.html) is often an option for those who had prior surgery. Such issues are better discussed during a consultation with your surgeon or someone who can advise you about your options. We help patients explore such issues during consultations or preliminary remote discussions.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[pogue]

Dr. Bermant, thanks for your replies as always.

Gynecomastia Surgery Does Not Prevent Regrowth

I caution each of my patients that surgery does not typically stop male breast growth. If there is a problem with growing breasts, recurrence can happen (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/male_breast_regrowth.html). Any of these medical problems (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/causes_of_gynecomastia.html) and or these medications (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_causes.html) can cause gynecomastia. So, if you want to get worried about regrowth, you could get yourself evaluated for each of these conditions to see if they could be a factor.

I realize your expertise is as a surgeon, but how do you determine whether or not the patient has the medical conditions mentioned, and if they do, does generally treating the condition remedy the gyno, or is surgery typically required even after treatment? (In most cases, let's say for example) Does this involve referring them to another doctor to perform tests or can you ascertain on your own, in some way, what was the root cause of the problem?

Surgery also does not prevent weight gain in the chest. Men tend to put weight on the belly and chest regions. I educate each of my patients that this surgery will not prevent further breast growth. It is like changing/fixing a tire with a nail. Fixing/changing the tire will not prevent you from getting a new nail in that tire.

In your opinion, do standard tried and truth methods of weight reduction (ie: through caloric intake reduction & cardiovascular exercise) tend to resolve weight gain in the chest, or is chest area a particularly difficult area to get rid of fat deposits in men?

I take care of many patients with gynecomastia, as many as 8 in one day alone. With all the gynecomastia surgery I have done, it is very rare to have regrowth for patients I have sculpted. One patient (who had surgery on only side by another doctor) came to me with pro hormone induced gynecomastia that only came back on the side that had no surgery. His growth was massive on the one side and none on the other. His surgery by that other doctor had left a massive crater - the skin was adherent against the chest wall with normal fat surrounding the ugly deformity. One side looked like the deformity seen here (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/redo_gyno_complication.html). The other side was almost a B cup breast so tender that I could barely examine it.

I understand that there are different methods that doctors will use for breast reduction in men. I have heard that some will simply liposuction the area, and others will go farther to correct the ongoing issue, such as disconnecting or removing the milk duct from below the nipple (I'm not completely up on breast anatomy, so correct me if I'm wrong). Are you familiar with this, and which procedures do you use and recommend?

As with each patient who presented to me with current breast growth, he was referred for an endocrinology evaluation and stabilization before considering surgery.

Do you know what the stabilization of the endocrine system involves? I assume this uses drug treatments to balance out the levels of estrogen and testosterone in the body, but is there a specific hormone that is the most problematic to induce gyno? Also, are you aware of any cases where excess progesterone or prolactin caused gyno?

I do not know if such radical surgery was a factor or not. Even if it did, removing all fat under the skin just gives an unnatural look.

So, I assume that the surgery you perform and advocate goes beyond more than just a standard breast liposuction. Can you tell us more about what you would normally do in a case of anabolic steroid or prohormone induced gyno?

I prefer to target the gland first with my Dynamic Technique (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/chest_dynamic_sculpture.html). This permits me to remove most of the gland and then sculpt the remainng tissue to minimze contour problems. Any surgery technique, even radical breast mastectomy for male breast cancer can leave gland behind. The problem is that there are fine fingers of gland that dissect between fingers of fat and can extend quite far into the chest.

You can see what I mean by fingers of gland here. (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_anatomy.html)

When you say 'gland', what specifically are you referring too? Is this the milk duct portion I was asking about above, or am I missing something? I assume, although you might not know the answer to this, that this is the area of the breast that has the highest concentration of estrogen receptors that are what is behind most anabolic steroid induced gyno.

By concentrating on the gland first I am able to minimize the chance of breast regrowth. It is very rare for my patients to have recurrence of their gynecomasia. However, gynecomastia surgery does not stop breast regrowth. For patients having breast growth, I have advised for many years that they should get their problem under control before surgery. There are exceptions, such as young men with massive breasts that have not stopped growing. That is why each case needs to be individually evaluated.

This is what confuses a lot of people, me included. I'm not sure these are legitimate medical terms, but we typically label individuals who have non exogenous hormone induced gyno as having "pseudo-gyno" and those who are hormone induced as having regular gyno.

Many people try to treat themselves first because of the high costs of surgery, and of course, most peoples reluctance to have it. Then, we see a lot of anecdotal responses as to what works for some people will not work for others.

What would you recommend as a first step to try and determine the root cause of a persons gyno and how to treat it? A trip to the endocrinologist and blood tests to find out what the reasons are behind it? Or should the first stop be to a surgeon like yourself to examine the breast and make a conclusion from there?

Prevention of gynecomastia, when possible, is much better.

Do you have any opinions or tips for people to prevent gyno in the first place?

Again, thanks for your help Dr. Bermant. You might not be able to answer all the questions I've asked above, but if you could point us in the right direction that might be helpful as well.

[bigtymn483]

will dieting and high reps remedy subcutaneous fat...i have been dieting for a while but dont seem to see my chest getting any less fatty looking...starting to get a six pack but chest wont get as cut? any suggestions?

[satx]

Im on a big cycle and started noticing lactation and sensitiveness in the nips. this is when i started taking my femora and bromo. it stopped it immediately, except i still discharge a little. is this just the last of the discharge built up and coming out? my sensitiveness and everything went away except for a little discharge. will this stop since im taking proper measurment? Also do i only need to take anti e's and bromo when i start feeling sensitive, or is it too late at that point. i dont want to get gyno so i would appreciate a little help. does discharge and sensitiveness mean i already am producing gyno or tits, or is this just a warning sign of what might come if i dont get the proper help? i am new to the site and would thank anyone for their help in this matter!

[FreezerLad]

Im on a big cycle and started noticing lactation and sensitiveness in the nips. this is when i started taking my femora and bromo. it stopped it immediately, except i still discharge a little. is this just the last of the discharge built up and coming out? my sensitiveness and everything went away except for a little discharge. will this stop since im taking proper measurment? Also do i only need to take anti e's and bromo when i start feeling sensitive, or is it too late at that point. i dont want to get gyno so i would appreciate a little help. does discharge and sensitiveness mean i already am producing gyno or tits, or is this just a warning sign of what might come if i dont get the proper help? i am new to the site and would thank anyone for their help in this matter!

I was one of the silly ones who never thought it'd happen to! I started taking deca/suss at beginnin of 2005, and moved upto taking deca/test and winny by the time i'd turned 22 in june 05...

My friend was taking them with me but couldnt cope with the roid rage and packed em up, refusing to do my jabs for me afterward! (rest assured I fobbed him off as my trainin buddy - and hes back down to 140lbs now)

Anyways... I was on a pretty high dosage course for my size... taking 3mls deca 200mg, 3mls test 350mg and 3mls winstrol... a week... and because I'd gone from that, to nothing... after a few weeks (with no anti-E's) I was feeling sore and seeping blood from my nipples, i had no idea what it was at the time and carried on doing nothing.
About 6wks later (late november) my nipples were hurting and I could feel a lump underneath them.. i asked a couple lads at work who take gear if they knew anything and they told me to get on an Anti-E straight away... which has since stopped the Gyno getting worse...

But believe me its not shifting... and the bigger my chest gets the more it shows.

I'm using clen, winstrol and deca at the moment for my cycles... on low dosage just to keep my test levels high, whilst taking some of LaMuscles supplements... which are fat burner, X_Factor, sculpt, anti-fat and nobese... aswell as getting a good level of cardio work in... but still no luck getting the excess off the end of my nips... which isnt a huge problem when im pumped up, but when ive not trained the area for a couple days the nipples are drooping a little... gutted... yep.

So... id recommend taking an anti-e to anyone whos on a high dosage course..., well anyone on steds to be fair..

Im going to try some nolvadex in the hope that it'll shift it as i know ive caught it early on in its development and it hasnt worsened in 3months... and the pain has gone pretty much... just need to find a way to improve the look without spendin money on surgery and avin my family n missus know im on the stuff!

[DrBermant]

Dr. Bermant, thanks for your replies as always.



I realize your expertise is as a surgeon, but how do you determine whether or not the patient has the medical conditions mentioned, and if they do, does generally treating the condition remedy the gyno, or is surgery typically required even after treatment? (In most cases, let's say for example) Does this involve referring them to another doctor to perform tests or can you ascertain on your own, in some way, what was the root cause of the problem?

I depend on detailed medical history provided by the patient with a clinical examination for clues as to what may need to be evaluated. Over the many years I have been sculpting gynecomastia, a number of Endocrinologists have helped me evolve a series of red flags that trigger referral for evaluation. For a patient with endocrine issues, I prefer to have the evaluation done by an Endocrinologist. What tests are ordered depends on the problem to be treated, what is found on the examination, and what initial testing shows. There are other Medical Conditions (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/causes_of_gynecomastia.html) that can cause Gynecomastia, and referral depends on the particular problem.

In your opinion, do standard tried and truth methods of weight reduction (ie: through caloric intake reduction & cardiovascular exercise) tend to resolve weight gain in the chest, or is chest area a particularly difficult area to get rid of fat deposits in men?

Weight loss can be a very valuable tool for shaping the body. Losing weight, however, is a coarse tool. You cannot pick where the weight will come from. Losing weight also does not help with gland elements of gynecomastia. Here is an example of a patient who had gland left after weight loss and his after surgery sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/fat_gyno_weight_loss.html). As a body sculpture, I prefer to coarse weight loss first. Plastic Surgery can then be a refinement tool After Weight Loss (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/after_weight_loss/).


I understand that there are different methods that doctors will use for breast reduction in men. I have heard that some will simply liposuction the area, and others will go farther to correct the ongoing issue, such as disconnecting or removing the milk duct from below the nipple (I'm not completely up on breast anatomy, so correct me if I'm wrong). Are you familiar with this, and which procedures do you use and recommend?

Liposuction works well for fat but does not remove gland well at all. All types of liposuction (power assisted, ultrasonic, VASER, sharp cutting cannula) all preferentially remove fat instead of gland. Fingers of gland usually exist between fingers of gland. (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_anatomy.html). Liposuction tends to remove the fat condensing the gland behind.

I prefer my Dynamic Technique (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/chest_dynamic_sculpture.html) where I use an assortment of surgical sculpting tools that can vary from patient to patient and sometimes from one side to the other.


Do you know what the stabilization of the endocrine system involves? I assume this uses drug treatments to balance out the levels of estrogen and testosterone in the body, but is there a specific hormone that is the most problematic to induce gyno? Also, are you aware of any cases where excess progesterone or prolactin caused gyno?

I prefer to defer issues of endocrine system stabilization to my Endocrinology colleagues. That is their specialty.

So, I assume that the surgery you perform and advocate goes beyond more than just a standard breast liposuction. Can you tell us more about what you would normally do in a case of anabolic steroid or prohormone induced gyno?

I take care of many bodybuilders and almost universally they tell me that building muscle tends to push gland / fat further out. Some general fat can obscure the gland, but general fat does not let the muscles look defined. It does not take much extra tissue to really interfere with the cut look of a body builder (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gyno_bodybuilding.html). Some body builders have large glands causing a pointed contour (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_bodybuilding.html).

I prefer my Dynamic Technique (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/chest_dynamic_sculpture.html) to manage such problems. I use an artist's pallet of surgical tools to sculpt the tissue. This permits me to work with gland, fat, and or skin for my sculpture. Most of my bodybuilders have very little fat with their gland increasing the need for such techniques as my Fat Flap Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/fat_flap_sculpture.html) which permits me to concentrate on the gland first, and then use the remaining fat to minimize the chance for a crater deformity. Body builders also oftenneed the finer MicroLiposuction (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/microcannular_liposuction.html) that can be more time consuming but better for sculpting small amounts of fat.

When you say 'gland', what specifically are you referring too? Is this the milk duct portion I was asking about above, or am I missing something? I assume, although you might not know the answer to this, that this is the area of the breast that has the highest concentration of estrogen receptors that are what is behind most anabolic steroid induced gyno.

Gland is the breast gland that makes humans mammals. Breast gland elements (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/anatomy_chest.html) exist in both men and women. Roll your mouse over the purple arrows to see where the gland is typically located.

This is what confuses a lot of people, me included. I'm not sure these are legitimate medical terms, but we typically label individuals who have non exogenous hormone induced gyno as having "pseudo-gyno" and those who are hormone induced as having regular gyno.

Gynecomastia means female like breasts in men. Galen introduced the term gynecomastia in the second century AD. He defined the condition as an abnormal amount of breast fat in men making female like breasts. The terms "pseudo" vs "true" gynecomastia came much much later and were supposed to differentiate fat vs glandular gynecomastia.

The problem is that I have never seen a patient with gynecomastia who did not have both fat AND gland as part of their problem. What makes a particular patient "true" gynecomastia? Is it 51%, 75%, 95%. None of such artificial labeling makes sense in my opinion.

I prefer the original Greek definition: Female Like Breasts in Men. If it has a female like contour, it is Gynecomastia in my opinion. Take some time and review the many different types of female like breasts that can occur by going through the many pages on my website to see what I mean. (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

Many people try to treat themselves first because of the high costs of surgery, and of course, most peoples reluctance to have it. Then, we see a lot of anecdotal responses as to what works for some people will not work for others.

In medicine we are taught that a doctor who has himself (herself) as a patient, has a fool for a doctor. I guess that also can apply to the general public.

What would you recommend as a first step to try and determine the root cause of a persons gyno and how to treat it? A trip to the endocrinologist and blood tests to find out what the reasons are behind it? Or should the first stop be to a surgeon like yourself to examine the breast and make a conclusion from there?

I prefer to help patients start exploring their concerns during an in office consultation or our Preliminary Remote Discussion (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/how_to_learn_more.html).

Again, thanks for your help Dr. Bermant. You might not be able to answer all the questions I've asked above, but if you could point us in the right direction that might be helpful as well.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[MurphMan]

I'm very impressed Dr. Bermant...........to say the least. :)

[C-Los 21]

Pogue, DrBermant...fantastic job, thank you.

[giorgakis02]

im impressed with everything that has been posted so far. i have a question tho i am 17 now and im pretty positive i have gyno. i have had it since i was 13 4 years ago from puberty. is there a possibility to get rid of it without surgery by using medication or is it to late. also would it be safe for me to use meds at the age of 17. i hope its not to late to use meds.

[firasnas]

Hello dr. I am realy considering haveing GYNO surgery but i am worried of any scarring or if the operation will cause my chest to look even worse. After the surgery how will my nipples look. I had gyno since puberty because i was chubby, but then at age 17 i took deca and dianabol, no pct (i know i did not know anything about anything and was lurred into the world of steroids by friends). Then at the age of 19 i took deca/susta/anabolon with nolvadex at the end of that cycle. All in all ive dieted, worked out done alot to lose the fat around my nipples but nothing has changed. I am currently 21 and have a slim body with a OK chest but with big puffy nipples and some fat around them. Is surgery my only hope ? and whats the cheapest i can get it ? also is it a 1 time thing or do i have to go in for more operations or checkups ? and if so how long will the whole process take ?

Thank you for your help.

[sawalke4]

Ive had pubertal unilateral gynecomastia (right chest only) since I was 15. I had an operation when I was 20 to remove it, but the surgeon didnt remove all. He said I had a little tissue in the left also, so he wanted it to look even. So, now I have been working out for about 6 months and the gyne on my right shows up more and more since my chest is getting bigger. I thought surgery was the only way to cure it, but Ive been reading the boards about anti estrogens. Will taking nolvadex reduce the breast tissue in my right chest? It has been with me basically since puberty. If I take it and stop, will this cause me to gain it back and maybe even more? Aslo, If i Take Tribulus or T3 will this cause even more gyne? What do you guys suggest?

[sawalke4]

Ive had pubertal unilateral gynecomastia (right chest only) since I was 15. I had an operation when I was 20 to remove it, but the surgeon didnt remove all. He said I had a little tissue in the left also, so he wanted it to look even. So, now I have been working out for about 6 months and the gyne on my right shows up more and more since my chest is getting bigger. I thought surgery was the only way to cure it, but Ive been reading the boards about anti estrogens. Will taking nolvadex reduce the breast tissue in my right chest? It has been with me basically since puberty. If I take it and stop, will this cause me to gain it back and maybe even more? Aslo, If i Take Tribulus or T3 will this cause even more gyne? What do you guys suggest?
any suggestions?

[DrBermant]

Ive had pubertal unilateral gynecomastia (right chest only) since I was 15. I had an operation when I was 20 to remove it, but the surgeon didnt remove all. He said I had a little tissue in the left also, so he wanted it to look even. So, now I have been working out for about 6 months and the gyne on my right shows up more and more since my chest is getting bigger. I thought surgery was the only way to cure it, but Ive been reading the boards about anti estrogens. Will taking nolvadex reduce the breast tissue in my right chest? It has been with me basically since puberty. If I take it and stop, will this cause me to gain it back and maybe even more? Aslo, If i Take Tribulus or T3 will this cause even more gyne? What do you guys suggest?

It does not take much to disturb the cut look of someone with a low body fat % such as a bodybuilder and I have sculpted many. Bodybuilding can help with fat and muscles, but will not help with gland and you cannot pick where the fat comes from. My bodybuilding patients typically tell me that what is on top of the muscle gets pushed out further when making bigger muscles.

You can find some examples of pictures before and after gynecomastia surgery

Here - Gyno and BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gyno_bodybuilding.html)

Puffy Nipples and Bodybuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/puffy_nipples/bodybuilding_puffy_nipples.htm)

Here - Gynecomastia and BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_body_building.html)

Here - Gynecomastia Treatment (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/treatment_for_gynecomastia.html)

and

Here - Gynecomastia BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_bodybuilding.html).

I would suggest looking beyond each link's first page at all of the views for each patient to better understand the how little gland and excess fat can change the look of a body builder and the look before / after surgery. There are other examples of lean patients, but thought this would be a good start.

When deformity remains after prior surgery, sometimes Revision Gynecomastia Surgery (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/index.html) can help. Options depend on the original problem, what was done, skill of the surgeon, aftercare, how a patient heals, and if there is regrowth or gain of fat weight after surgery.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[ChronicBlunt420]

Gyno is avoidable. I just completed a 2 month cycle of Superdrol and had no gyno. I'd say the secret was eating mild sodium and a heavy water intake. Check out my post in the forum about my cycle:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=786634

[sawalke4]

thanks for you info Dr. Bermant, the links were very informative and a great rescource, however it seems that all the solutions offered are surgery. I am trying to avoid surgery for finacial reasons, time off work, and general discomfort with surgery in gereral. Is there any solution like any medication (nolvadex) that can reverse the gyno I have?

[sawalke4]

thanks for you info Dr. Bermant, the links were very informative and a great rescource, however it seems that all the solutions offered are surgery. I am trying to avoid surgery for finacial reasons, time off work, and general discomfort with surgery in gereral. Is there any solution like any medication (nolvadex) that can reverse the gyno I have?
any proof that nolvadex can reverse gyno without surgery?

[Jim C]

Pogue,

Why not just go ahead and use Nolvadex/Clomid at the start of the cycle to prevent GM instaed of waiting for it to happen ?

Jim

[madmonkey]

does anyone know which kind of blood tests I should be taking from the links above.

[pogue]

Pogue,

Why not just go ahead and use Nolvadex/Clomid at the start of the cycle to prevent GM instaed of waiting for it to happen ?

Jim

Well, that is an obvious solution, however, many people do not do any research prior to starting their cycle and find themselves with gyno after the fact. Also, in some rare cases where prolactin or progesterone is the cause, neither of these drugs will have much effect.

[DrBermant]

During weight loss, loose tissues and contour deformities can really be an issue for some. Many have asked me for something to make them feel better while in public until they are suitable candidates for surgery. Others have asked for non-surgical solutions for contour or loose skin issues.

I have just added a resource about compression vests showing pictures of patients with and without these vests. Compression garments are not an alternative to losing weight or body building. But they seem to offer emotional relief for some.

You can see actual examples of Compression Chest Contouring Without Surgery (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/no-surgery_body_shaping/index.html) for different types of gynecomastia here:

Compression Contouring After Massive Weight Loss (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/no-surgery_body_shaping/weightloss_body_shaper_vest.htm)

Body Shaping for Puffy Nipples (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/no-surgery_body_shaping/puffynipple_bodyshaper_vest.htm)

Body Shaping Compression Contouring for Overweight Male (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/no-surgery_body_shaping/black_body_shaper_vest.htm) - This one shows the Black Vest in use.

Body Shaper Compression Garment for Severly Obese Male (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/a/no-surgery_body_shaping/obese_body_shaper_vest.htm)

Check out the multiple views for each patient. Comments would be appreciated on the navigation of the new section. Will be posting movies of how the vests stabilize jiggling and comments showing emotions of first trying on the compression garments. Clink on the links to see other views of each garment and features of this design.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[meanmo]

I apologize Pogue if this is Inappropriate to post here. Im 38 and have had puffy nipple gyno since puberty. I use gear but it has never appeared to have any affect on me and nothing has really changed since puberty ended. When my nips are hard they look fine, however I can feel some lumps that I believe to be a combination of adipose and tissue. I have managed to get from 26%bf down to around 11%bf currently and the appearence is significantly better, However I still have some lumps.

I have been running Raloxifene at 60mg ED for close to month and Im pretty sure that I have seen a reduction in tissue. Im very happy and have two months left to go.

I have ran these others with no luck..

tamox
AI's and steroidal and non-steroidal
Andractim
liposolv
yohimburn and all the others..


this has been a 3+ year project for me largely centering around my diet.

A have had no real sides other then possibly some irritability, its hard to say cause im an ass by nature...:D


Just thought someone might appreciate the input..

[moe_flex]

my lil bro took superdrol like 4 months ago and he got these bitch tits its not that noticable but im worried it can get worse i want him to try zinc cuz i heard its helps get rid of gyno so can someone tell me how much of it he needs to take and for how long? thanks

[riodmonkey]

ya i got bitch tits because i needed to take steriods for a medical reason when i was 12 and now im 16 still have them would they go away by them selves or should i do cardio

[snatohessnaths]

Hey, everyone.

Those with gyno, post your experiences(I see some people already did), what you did about it, what results you got, what it was caused by, any background that might have made a difference, and so on. Also, any good web sites might be useful.

I'm not saying one post will probably make a world of difference,(be nice if it did, of course) but I think it would be good to have the experiences in one place. Also, if you ever even heard of a drug or herbal remedy or something, that might be useful, post that too. If it's not, it least we can have a hint of whether it's worth looking into, either way.

Here's mine, I know it's not really bbing related. I have done some small time bbing, just natural, for about 4 months in the past.

I was on spironolactone for 2 weeks to treat acne. I had a bit of an eating disorder at the time. I was not diagnosed with anything, but I consider it an eating disorder because I was having a really hard time eating more than 1500 cal per day. The spironolactone seemed to make the eating even harder, or maybe it just made me less hungry so I was not as desperate to eat, and so didn't. (This might not sound like it's that bad, but when it goes on for a long time and you have run out of muscle and fat reserves, it is.)


So, during the second week, I noticed a small amount of gyno on my left, but it didn't bother me. Gyno is a common side effect from spironolactone, but it's supposed to go away when the treatment is discontinued.

Then, when I got off spironolactone it didn't go away, but got worse!

Then, when I started eating more, about 1 month later, it got worse again.(It was very unpleasant in the meantime. I started eating more by buying subs from subway every day. Yes, it was expensive, but I really didn't have much choice. Cost me about 20$ per day.) I still have a fairly mild case, but I don't wear t-shirts.

I have not currently tried any treatments, because I want to know about the different options better first. Otherwise I might end up making it worse or more stubborn, as you might say?
I thought it would be better to get it in one fell swoop, instead of consecutively trying different treatments. Especially because the body could maybe build up a resistance to different drugs if you start small.

I have heard of the following treatments:
You might see where I put a "cause" or suggested mechanism of action, but of course you should take such things as just a "better than nothing" explanation. Also, they might not always be better than nothing, because the pharmacokinetics and actions on different systems of drugs can be very complex, and are rarely well understood by one person. So, there can be other factors that outweigh some effect, and result in the opposite of what you'd expect. After all, you can't study every single drug out there with great detail in every system in the body.

Topical Testosterone gel. - Only temporary fix, and it could make it worse.

Any kind of oral testosterone booster. - I'm supposing they would be only temporary, but maybe not? It depends how they work, I suppose.

Aromatase inhibitors. - I hear they can make things worse (by causing an upregulation of estrogen receptors), but also might cure things permanently, by rebalancing the HPTA axis (?) Aka, the feedback mechanism that controls est./test. production.

tamoxifen. - An estrogen blocker, I'm pretty sure this is what's most commonly used to treat gyno. The cure may or may not be permanent, by rebalancing the HPTA.

Clomiphene citrate. - Comparable to tamoxifen, but a bit different in side effects.

Rebound Xt - I'm not sure what this is, really. I'm not sure if it's prescription or not, either. I've heard good things about it though.

Raloxifene. - I think this is another estrogen blocker, but that's about all I know about it. I've also heard good things about it.

topical DHT - Stands for Dihydroxytestosterone (I think). I'm supposing this would be a temporary cure, like topical testosterone. I'm not sure if it has serious side effects when used to treat gyno, but it's what causes alopecia. I've heard finasteride(a DHT antagonist) can cause gyno, so conclude from that what you will.


Andractim. - "Andractim is outrageously expensive where the alternatives are usually $25-45 if you know where to look." I've read in another post on this site, but I don't know what it is.

Loosing weight. - I'm not sure about this one, but it doesn't seem as if it would cure anything.

Surgery. - Surgical removal of tissue. Doesn't fix the underlying problem, and make sure you get a good doctor to do it. Also, since it doesn't fix the hormone imbalance, I wouldn't consider it quite as good as the other options, since I'm supposing you may still have more fat around your waist, etc.(other slightly feminine characteristics?). If you've got the imbalance cured, though, I've heard the tissue can have become permanent, in which case I suppose surgery would be a good, if not the only, choice.

Web sites about it
Hypogonadism is a common cause of gyno from steroids (I don't know what the others are).

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/scally/anabolic-steroid-induced-hypogonadism.htm

[trapt]

If there is a little noticable lump on one side and it isn't getting bigger nor it is getting smaller would your body possibly "cure" it after enough time given?

[Charlie Scene]

If there is a little noticable lump on one side and it isn't getting bigger nor it is getting smaller would your body possibly "cure" it after enough time given?

No, its called unilateral gynecomastia, you'd need to get rid of it the same way you would any other kind of breast tissue

[trapt]

No, its called unilateral gynecomastia, you'd need to get rid of it the same way you would any other kind of breast tissue


You think clomid would do the job?

[raysmith]

You think clomid would do the job?
Yes but nolva is stronger.

[DrBermant]

If there is a little noticable lump on one side and it isn't getting bigger nor it is getting smaller would your body possibly "cure" it after enough time given?

There are many conditions (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/causes_of_gynecomastia.html) associated with gynecomastia. Gynecomastia often goes away on its own for conditions like gynecomastia from the imbalance of hormones during puberty or the glandular development typically seen in newborns from their mother's hormones.

Unilateral, One Sided, (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gyno_male_chest.html) and Uneven Gynecomastia can happen without specific cause. What happens depends on many factors best explored with a doctor familar with gynecomastia.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[raysmith]

There are many conditions (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/causes_of_gynecomastia.html) associated with gynecomastia. Gynecomastia often goes away on its own for conditions like gynecomastia from the imbalance of hormones during puberty or the glandular development typically seen in newborns from their mother's hormones.

Unilateral, One Sided, (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gyno_male_chest.html) and Uneven Gynecomastia can happen without specific cause. What happens depends on many factors best explored with a doctor familar with gynecomastia.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)
Someone I know has gyno, but has low bf. The Drs have put him on tamoxifen. I didn't think that tamoxifen actually reduced the fatty tissue on the breast.

Which goes on to another question, how comes people using vit b6 have been able to cure gyno.

[Hammer101]

What about ball shrinkage?

[jdpicou]

The best way to prevent gyno is to have clomid and nolva during a cycle. They won't cure it if you have it, but they will help prevent.
As for ball shrinkage, you need HCG.

[Hammer101]

What is HCG?

[snatohessnaths]

What is HCG?
Human chorionic gonadotropin (CG). Usually written hCG


BTW my gyno started as unilateral. Just so you know, whatever that might indicate.

I have also read that your diet, particularly the kinds of fats you eat can effect your test. levels?

I have read that O-6 fats can *reduce* the level.
I suppose if you happened to be eating a poor diet, that might contribute then? Maybe that affected me.

I honestly don't know anything about hCG, but nolva has been shown to increase test. production by something like 140% or so, with acompanying increase in ball size. Just about anything that affects natural test. production will affect ball size, won't it?

This is partly how 6-OXO increases test levels, by blocking est. activity.
here
http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/scally/anabolic-steroid-induced-hypogonadism.htm
You can read a bit about the feedback mechanism involved here (look at the diagram,)at HPTA normalization, etc.

[trapt]

i have some letro coming and currently im using clomid...when it comes should i take letro and clomid together or just letro. If so how much of letro or letro and clomid should i be taking? there is a lump behind my nip

[snatohessnaths]

i have some letro coming and currently im using clomid...when it comes should i take letro and clomid together or just letro. If so how much of letro or letro and clomid should i be taking? there is a lump behind my nip
If it's only just started just take one or the other, if it doesn't work you will still have time to try something else/both. If it's older I suppose you might try both, but I don't know if it would be any better. Typical dose for letro is about 2.5 mg/day but you need to adjust it so you don't get side effects too badly.

[marcus84]

Ok I know it's not a steroid but I've been using ZMA for the past few weeks with noticable gains and my nipples are getting red on the edges and also seem to be getting fatter and softer. I've stopped using the ZMA but will this decrease with time or is it something I should see my doctor about?

[pogue]

Ok I know it's not a steroid but I've been using ZMA for the past few weeks with noticable gains and my nipples are getting red on the edges and also seem to be getting fatter and softer. I've stopped using the ZMA but will this decrease with time or is it something I should see my doctor about?

Yes, because it probably does not have anything to do with the ZMA. Depending on how old you are and other factors, gyno may be developing for other reasons, but it is definitely not being caused by the ZMA.

[Dan101]

I have used tamoxifen, ralox, lectro, adex, andractim and that yohmbiburn stuff to try to rid myself of pubertal gyno. None worked. Thankfully I am booked in for surgery this saturday.....all paid for by the NHS. Please keep your fingers crossed for me guys.

Dan

[marcus84]

Good luck buddy.

I have used tamoxifen, ralox, lectro, adex, andractim and that yohmbiburn stuff to try to rid myself of pubertal gyno. None worked. Thankfully I am booked in for surgery this saturday.....all paid for by the NHS. Please keep your fingers crossed for me guys.

Dan

[raysmith]

I have used tamoxifen, ralox, lectro, adex, andractim and that yohmbiburn stuff to try to rid myself of pubertal gyno. None worked. Thankfully I am booked in for surgery this saturday.....all paid for by the NHS. Please keep your fingers crossed for me guys.

Dan
Wow you must have been persistent. I know someone that has been trying to get surgery for 3 years, he is well into his 20's and hasn't got a high amount of fat.

[size]

Gyno Study Link (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=410381)

[Dan101]

Thanks guys. Thats the thing, I wasn't persistant at all. I went to see my G.P last year, after a month or so I got an appointment with a Consultant. Then 2 weeks ago I got my second appointment with the Surgeon that will be performing the op, he asked me exactly what I wanted done (I was originally told that they just want to do lipo only), so I told him I want excision and lipo, he said fine, the NEXT DAY (a wednesday) I get a call from the hospital asking if I wanted to come in for my op that very friday, I said sorry but that was a little soon for work, so they booked me in for this coming saturday.

I have really stepped up my diet and cardio. I want to come in for the op as light as possible. I am terrified of going under and not waking up.

[raysmith]

Thanks guys. Thats the thing, I wasn't persistant at all. I went to see my G.P last year, after a month or so I got an appointment with a Consultant. Then 2 weeks ago I got my second appointment with the Surgeon that will be performing the op, he asked me exactly what I wanted done (I was originally told that they just want to do lipo only), so I told him I want excision and lipo, he said fine, the NEXT DAY (a wednesday) I get a call from the hospital asking if I wanted to come in for my op that very friday, I said sorry but that was a little soon for work, so they booked me in for this coming saturday.

I have really stepped up my diet and cardio. I want to come in for the op as light as possible. I am terrified of going under and not waking up.
lol if you dont wake up, you dont know any different.

Nothing to worry about its only a small op that will have you discharged a few hours later, so I have heard.

[billypfl]

i got gyno after my cycle about 6 weeks ago. i ordered some letro and i just started taking it. will letro help reduce the gyno??

[Dan101]

i got gyno after my cycle about 6 weeks ago. i ordered some letro and i just started taking it. will letro help reduce the gyno??

Lectro will certainly knock the estrogen out of your body and it is a great treatment for gyno if you catch it in time. However once the lump has hardened in my opinion, just like me you'll be throwing money down a rat hole.

Dan101

[Green Thumb]

Ok I know it's not a steroid but I've been using ZMA for the past few weeks with noticable gains and my nipples are getting red on the edges and also seem to be getting fatter and softer. I've stopped using the ZMA but will this decrease with time or is it something I should see my doctor about?

Are you serious? I just started ZMA and this is something that worries me. Maybe it is all in my head, but I think the ZMA, cellmass, & NO exp are also causing my nips to itch.....WTF????

[Finest Hour]

i think i may have developed delayed gyno...the lump is forming fatty tissue so on..it is the end of december and i took a cycle of alfa in august..and just now i'm starting gyno...but anyways do you guys think i should buy letrozol and see what happens and if so..how much should i take any side effcts and should i take somehting with it...thanks for the help

[Pound4pound]

I have sore nipples!

Last fall I did a cycle of phera-plex (with amazing results I might add) and shortly after PCT my nipples got pretty sore, mostly the right one but they both hurt when you push on them. There is a tiny lump but nothing can be seen, yet... In the past 2 months it hasn't gotten any worse. For PCT I used toremifene (along w/the other staple PCT supps) in a schedule like this: 120, 90, 60, 30. I have more left. I also have an unopened bottle of Rebound XT. What would you recommend I do?

[DrBermant]

It does not take much to disturb the cut look of someone with a low body fat % such as a bodybuilder and I have sculpted many. Bodybuilding can help with fat and muscles, but will not help with gland and you cannot pick where the fat comes from. My bodybuilding patients typically tell me that what is on top of the muscle gets pushed out further when making bigger muscles.

You can find some examples of pictures before and after gynecomastia surgery

Here - Gyno and BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gyno_bodybuilding.html)

Puffy Nipples and Bodybuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/puffy_nipples/bodybuilding_puffy_nipples.htm)

Here - Gynecomastia and BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_body_building.html)

Here - Gynecomastia Treatment (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/treatment_for_gynecomastia.html)

and

Here - Gynecomastia BodyBuilding (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/gynecomastia_bodybuilding.html).

I would suggest looking beyond each link's first page at all of the views for each patient to better understand the how little gland and excess fat can change the look of a body builder and the look before / after surgery. There are other examples of lean patients, but thought this would be a good start.

When deformity remains after prior surgery, sometimes Revision Gynecomastia Surgery (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/revision_gynecomastia/index.html) can help. Options depend on the original problem, what was done, skill of the surgeon, aftercare, how a patient heals, and if there is regrowth or gain of fat weight after surgery.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

I have revised the sections on Gyno / Gynecomastia

check out the new Gynecomastia Picture Galleries:

Gynecomastia Gallery - Pictures of Bodybuilders (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/gynecomastia_gallery/bodybuilder_gyno_gallery.htm)

Gynecomastia Gallery - Puffy Nipples (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/gynecomastia_gallery/puffynipple_gyno_gallery.htm)

I need help on the look of the pages and navigation features before I continue converting and adding more details. The galleries are in response to requests for some bigger pictures. If you are having any difficulties with seeing the content or using the pages, what browser, operating system and computer?

Comments and thoughts appreciated.

Hope this helps,

Michael Bermant, MD
Learn More About Gynecomastia and Chest Sculpture (http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/procedure_folder/male_breast/index.html)

[Gozar]

First thanks to all for alot of good info within this thread...I have learned alot just reading through it.
I'm about to start a Superdrol cycle and am affraid of the possibility of gyno. I see many say to have Nolvadex on hand in case you need it and for PCT but I have had trouble finding any to have on hand. Can anyone suggest an alternative which is as good as Nolvadex but easier to acquire. Any info is always greatly appreciated.
~Rich

[Jguy98]

I have gyno occuring naturally fight now. Im 22 almost 23. I went to the doctor and he said its natural and it will go away with time naturally. I kept asking him if there was anything else i could do and he just kept telling me to let it go away naturally. Screw that the lumps are big enough that no matter what i wear i they pop out. Any suggestions? I was thinking about self medicating with Nolvadex. Also i was going to do my first test. cycle in about a month and im scared that the cycle will cause further growth and ill end up looking like a 13yr old girl? Any info would be really great. Thanks ahead of time.

[RodJensoN]

Jguy98 same **** with me my doctor keeps saying it will go away naturally i go fuk that just rite me i want to see a specialist about it so tommorow i got a appointment with a general surgeon and im only 18

[Bodybuilder9x6c]

I know zinc raises ur testosterone and makes u shoot bigger loads! But Ive also heard that flax seed lignins can help prevent gyno.

[BestFromBrazil]

Anyone know if Letro can be used with Tamoxifen?

[Pound4pound]

correct me if i'm wrong but you should do letro THEN tamox - to act as a "letro PCT".

[alpha-romeo]

ya i got bitch tits because i needed to take steriods for a medical reason when i was 12 and now im 16 still have them would they go away by them selves or should i do cardio
i am already having gyno
planning to treat up in 6 monthz ....
how should i do my chest routine rite know???
does after surgery will cause prob in weight lifting???
can i never use a steroid???

[glocklimited9]

i don thave gyno but im worried about it with my 8 week cycle of winni, eq, and sust. Last year when i took deca and eth, i took 6 oxo everyday on my cycle, and for a month after, im not taking it now because im gonna take nolva or clomid 18 days after my last shot as that is the directions ive heard to do with my cycle. Should i take my 6oxo while on my cycle and up to my nolva? Is the 6 oxo a waste? id rather be safe the sorry. Should i continue to use the 6 oxo while using my nolva? im taking tibulus fuel in the morning and at night, is this doing anything? my balls arent getting much smaller, i am only on my 3rd week of an 8th week cycle tho.. what do you guys think?

[krogtaar]

Is it possibly for one's diet/exercise to cause this? Im21, I have never used any type of ph, steroid, or test booster.

I have been bulking for about a year. in this time my bf has stayed about the same(~15%), but i have gained a significant amount of fat/tissue around my nipples. i have had slightly pufy nipples since teenage years, but it has definatly gotten worse

any advise or should i see a doc about it

[Demon Builder]

Lectro will certainly knock the estrogen out of your body and it is a great treatment for gyno if you catch it in time. However once the lump has hardened in my opinion, just like me you'll be throwing money down a rat hole.

Dan101

I guess a year is a little bit long to catch it in time?

[PG]

correct me if i'm wrong but you should do letro THEN tamox - to act as a "letro PCT".Correct, letro can have a bounce back effect. So you need to take Nolvadex (tamoxifen citrate) to take care of the elevated estrogen due to the bounce back

[cmaracz]

I'm not sure if I have the actual condition, but I have quite a bit of unwanted fat in that area that becomes quite visible if I'm in a poor posture position or bending over or something.

I'm wondering is using a commercially available anti-estrogen is a decent and safe way of trying to self-medicate the issue?

I know the reasonable response would be: see a doctor; but I don't really have access to one at this point in time.

[2KnockZ]

I've had the same problem from puberty, never took steroids in my life but the effects of my former fat-ass has led to pointed, puffy, soft nipples which makes it embarassing to take my top off in public. Will I ever get rid of em without surgery? Will losing bodyfat help?

[miamitank]

Hi,

I started to use winny for the first time last year, and went through two bottles (1cc every other day). this year i did it again (1cc every other day or so) yet this time around i noticed that my nipples are hurting and now there is a what looks like swollen nipples. So last week i started to take 1 20mg novoldex everyday. has anyone had the same experience? any advice if i should take anything else to hellp get rid of what looks like a begining bitch tits...

Thanks

[protectyourneck]

first i just want to thank everyone on here for the awesome information you've guys have been feeding me on the topic of gyno. i've had gyno for about 5-6 years now and i'm 18 now. i don't have insurance so i can't just see a doctor and have him write me up for some anti-estrogen drug.
basically i have a budget of $200 at the moment that i want to throw down on just getting rid of this extra glandular tissue under my nipples. they stick out about 2.5cm and when they are stiff you really can't tell but when they are normal it looks like i seriously have the tits of an 11 or 12 year old girl. i've never taken steroids, and not even any sort of supplements. i work out everyday (not exactly strict bodybuilding workouts) and the more muscle i gain the more evident the fat under my nipples in my pectorals are. it's an embarrassing dilemma that i am just sick of having to hide and be embarrassed about even with my girlfriend. i want to just get rid of this permanently and am thinking about trying to get my hands on some generic tamoxifen or raloxifen. those seem to be the most successful and popular but there are still a few things i would like to know:

1. do you need a prescription for these drugs in the US?

2. i saw them selling online and have found very low prices for them but i don't know if i would be able to get them shipped to me here in the states if you DO need a prescription. (if you do know how to get your hands on some somehow please just PM with the information.)

3. are there any OTC drugs/remedies that are as successful as the drugs mentioned above?

any input on these questions would be VERY much appreciated and again i'm really loving the info that has been posted so far.

[pogue]

1. do you need a prescription for these drugs in the US?

Yes

2. i saw them selling online and have found very low prices for them but i don't know if i would be able to get them shipped to me here in the states if you DO need a prescription. (if you do know how to get your hands on some somehow please just PM with the information.)

You can buy them w/o a prescription online from various sites. They are not scheduled drugs, so you would have no problem having them shipped to you. You can also get them at various "research chem" sites that sell them at a very low discount.

3. are there any OTC drugs/remedies that are as successful as the drugs mentioned above?

It's very hard to say. Some people have pseudo-gyno, which is not estrogen related, and some people have actual gyno which has been caused by excessive female sex hormones from whatever reason. Pseudo-gyno can normally be gotten rid of with a variety of means, not the least of which is simple diet and exercise. Other people have tried a lot of various OTC stuff, and prescription stuff, and there is no real 100% proven way of getting rid of it without surgery. Read through the Gyno FAQ (http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=123045) post and it might give you some ideas of things to try. However, I would recommend having a doctor take a look at it first and try and determine if it's just fat stores or actual glandular development of the breast tissue before you do anything.

[miamitank]

does anyone know an effective dose for Nolvadex for post winny? I took Winny for 10 weeks and started to get "soft bumps" behind my nipples. My last shot was like a month and a half ago, and started one 20mg nolvadex tablet everyday a month ago. I noticed the bumps getting smaller but not gone completely yet.

I never thought winny gives you bitch titts, apparently it can to those who already produce alot of test in their body.

should I keep taking Nolvadex for another month?

Thnx

[hollowheresy]

Man, this thread convinced me to not even start messing with my hormones. I'll just use creatine and protein.

[GiftedLiftin39]

can slight gyno be cured?

I was on a cycle of oxodrol 12, and noticed gyno symptoms, about a week or two in, so i stopped, and about 7 days later i started nolvadex at 40mg ED.

my nipples are bigger and puffy, and i can see that the area around the nipple is enlarged a slight bit, not too much of a difference, except in the nipples,

can this be reversed or gotten rid of with the nolva?

[aslan]

ive been hearing a lot about doctors telling people in their teens and early twenties that the gyno will go away naturally - whats the reasoning behind this? anything to do with the male's natural test:estrogen ratio?

[aslan]

http://www.ccjm.org/PDFFILES/Bembo604.pdf

its in PDF form, thought it was a pretty interesting, and very informative read on gyno.

[Bezel]

anything that can be bought in stores on gnc that can help?

[swollenLBC]

I did a few cycles of methyl drol about 10 or 12 months ago. I got gyno and I am trying to narrow down what actually ****ed me up because it could have been alot of things. Specifically because it started with nipple discharge

[swollenLBC]

I did 3 cycles and I did some some stupid **** while on cycle like smoke ridiculous amounts of weed and drink here and there and did use 6 oxo instead of nolv. After my third cycle I noticed some discharge from my nipple and and some erectile function problems..this mainly started to occur when I started the use of ephedra to cut up..I ended up going to an endo and getting nolva 10mg then i bumped it to 20. I used it for about two months and just noticed some hardening of the tissue, i stopped for a a week or two then reuped the script and started a heavier dose of 30 for three months. I went from a fat 220 to a fat 250 during the 1 and second cycles then on the third threw in ephedra and ate better. staying around 230-235. I was hella strong but the whole time i felt weird and i definelty didn't train as hard as i wanted on the third cycle because of my life situation and work. after about 4 months the nipple discharge stopped and I lost absolutely all of my gains when the nolva stopped. My body has chnged in appearance dramatically and I feel like a bloated estrogen filled idiot. any suggestions

[swollenLBC]

I guess I should clarify some of my symptoms:

1. Up and down loss of limbido, may have been more phsycological than physical?

2. The weight and mass I gained when lost contributed to the gyno however there is a dystinction when felt of the glandular mass and the fatty tissue.

3. I went to mutliple docs and an endo. All are lost when I speak of 17 a alk..well the endo knew what it was. They all want to contribute it to marijauna. I did get blood work and checked my prolactin levels my test was 100 and that tripped me out. I never got to see the exact results of the blood work but I am requesting it to document my situation then and now I will post it and my results currently.

4.) I also went througha vicodin bout when I injured my ankle and when i had my teeth pulled..I take alot of add meds like ritalin then but now I take addrall? any chance they could have effected the situation?

[xb5869]

anything that can be bought in stores on gnc that can help?

no, not at all

X

[aslan]

I did a few cycles of methyl drol about 10 or 12 months ago. I got gyno and I am trying to narrow down what actually ****ed me up because it could have been alot of things. Specifically because it started with nipple discharge

dude its the prolactin. like ive been saying around the place, you HAVE to watch out for prolactin levels being risen while on superdrol. whether people like it or not, it has some direct or indirect progestational activity.

[swollenLBC]

I agree with you in entirety. I got blood work following bitch tit formation and leakage...I wanted to kill my ****ing endo..He was a young guy(30) Anyways he stated that my prolactin levels were "not an issue." and the levels were "regular"(I will check what he thought was regular and post what my blood work said at that point). He did state however that I had a particular liver enzyme that was a little "high" and my free test was aprox. 100(wow!! thats what I said).. but I agree he was unfamiliar, although he should of conducted more research for his patient, I thought this dude makes bank, he's dealing with diabetics fat ladies, something like this would interest him.(never trust a doctor always get second opinions and conduct your own research) I took nolva but I could of killed this **** definitely with something else.(any suggestions?) I would say bromo, arimidex etc..or I should of had both clomid and nolva on hand for pct.. -listen when people say a store bought anit-estrogen will not be sufficient, like 6-oxo-. (and I ****ing knew it, but due to my increased estrogen I was in bitch mode). I also should of stopped the cannabis consumption,(per his recommendation) although I smoked for years, however, i used a lot of high quality cannabis before during and after.. in combination with a post cycle recovery it contributed to an estrogen/prolactin(?) level production in my opinion. A good question is how long could they have stayed elevated? I stopped cannabis usage entirely 1 month ago. I should have stopped at first sign. I have made gains in the weight room once again (but this also came with no alcohol whatsoever and a very clean diet). I have now noticed a decrease in the breast mass tissue on both sides and the ability to form chest muscle once again, but it is coming slowly. When felt the tissue that was once a hard glandular mass it now seems to "crackle" when I pinch it, almost as if it is disintegrating. I also don't feel like a estrogen filled little girl. My nips are way smaller and there has not been any leaky nip condition for about 9 months. But I am not satisfied, I still need to make significant gains to feel normal again.

I just got new blood tests and I have two endo's on my team. As for the old tests from 12 months ago and the new results from last week, I will post them for people to see in comparison on the 18th of this month. My new blood work will be the result of 3 months of nolvadex.(increasing from 10mg to 40mg) after the methyl drol and about 8-9 months off cycle trying to recover, I did drink and use cannabis up until a month ago but since then diet and the wieght room have been of upmost priority.

Scwolle

[swollenLBC]

Lipid Panel:
Triglycerides 50
Total cholesterol 84
HDL 34
LDL 40


Estradiol 15
T-3 Uptake 36


I haven't received the testosterone results, but why are my cholesterol levels so low?

[Apogee]

I'm 20 and I used to be really overweight ever since I was 8. By the time I was 13, an endocrinologist found I had problems with my thyroid gland and also found that I had some mammary tissue on my chest. Anyway, I took some medicin for my thyroid, which would supposedly fix my hormones, which were just haywire, which was supposedly the reason why I had that mammary tissue. Anyway, when I was 17, I was about 245 lbs, mostly fat. Since then I've lost 65 lbs of fat. My body fat is not THAT low, but I've been lowering it, and the thing that annoys me is that it seems to go away everywhere but from what's left on my chest. I am pretty sure I still have gyno, and I'm wondering, if I were to get surgery, what are the chances it will come back? I mean, it's not there because of steroids, and I'm not planning on ever taking those either... So, would surgery be a good choice?

[Silverosewizard]

Everyone talks about developing a lump under the nipple. Is this directly under the nipple?? or can it be above or to the side of it. When I push in my nipple it is soft, and there is no lump in the "squishy" area directly under it, however, if I feel up above the nipple where there is normal skin, I can feel a slight lump. There is one on both sides, with the one on the right side being slightly bigger. Is this Gyno, or a normal thing? I am just wondering what is considered "under the nipple"

[Gun Master]

if you have pubertal gyno, and if it actually starts to go away, how long will it take to go away? will you feel it get smaller over the course of a month or two? will it be over night or can it take 6 months-1 year?

[aslan]

if you have pubertal gyno, and if it actually starts to go away, how long will it take to go away? will you feel it get smaller over the course of a month or two? will it be over night or can it take 6 months-1 year?

a long time probably

definitely not overnight lmao

[hollisterboy123]

Hi, I've personally used many of the newer prohormones and prosteroids that have been out over the last two years. I first used M1T and then moved to LG Science Methyl Masterdrol and Methyl 1-Alpha. Along with these I stacked Androgel since it was easily obtainable as opposed to injectables. Well somethings happened and I wasn't able to get any form of PCT. Even something as small of 6-OXO or Formadrol. About 7 Months after my use I noticed that I have some Gyno growing under my right nipple and about 3 to 4 months later it started growing under my left nipple. My right nipple has stopped growing and is no longer sore but my left is still very sensitive. Both are roughly nickle sized. I've done alot of research on things such as arimidex and femara and found that people have actually gotten rid of their gyno with these particular products. I'm ready for either arimidex or femara and I'm just curious as to how I can go about getting this particular products or if anyone had any feed back on how they worked for them. I'm making an oppointment with my doctor in the coming weeks and I'm prepared to pay for whatever cost of the prescription or non prescription if possible. I've also found some liquid letrozole or liquid femara. Any feed back on this would be extremely helpful. my only other option is surgery and I'd rather try the prescription first. Thanks guys

[Exnfl2006]

I got Gyno after taken Deca after having shoulder surgery. When I saw that I had gotten Gyno I wanted to kill myself. I Just had Gyno surgery 4 weeks ago and I will never take any steriods ever again for sports.

[darkcloud007]

Does anyone know how to diagnose if it is really gyno or just fat?

Some people mention lumps. Are these lumps like "you can't miss them". I don't really feel anything weird unless I press hard against my chest, but I can't tell if I'm digging into muscle or a gland.

Also, does gyno (glandular) localize only at the nipple? I don't have puffy nipples, in particular, but I have a uniform fat distribution over my chest.

[hollisterboy123]

you'll know if you have gyno because it starts under your nipple and it hurts really bad. Anything that touches it hurts. Even your shirt will hurt your nipples or the gyno itself. It can continue to grow from that point to the size of a dime or to the size of well you get the point. I've seen some surgeries where the gyno that was removed was the size of a small fruit. Like a tangerine. My point is you will know if you have gyno.

[darkcloud007]

hollisterboy123,

Thanks for the reply. To think since my teenage years off and on I was undecided if I had fat or gyno. But I have NEVER had pain or nipple sensitivity. Hopefully dropping by body fat 9% or below will help a bit.

Unfortunately, when I was a teen I worked my chest hard hoping the muscle would hide it. It actually made it worse because the muscles grew, but with the fat it just looks like a big clump of mass :(

At least they are not pointy like some pics of gyno I saw.

[G_nius]

I had glandular gyno sometime in my early teens, didnt know what it was. It went away after a few months but ever since then I've had puffy nips/small amount of fat tissue beneath nipples. Im 26, work out regularly, 12% bf.

From what I've gathered here, surgery is the only way to go right? Drugs won't get rid of it at this point?

[hollisterboy123]

From my research it depends on the drugs I have pubertal gyno as well and mine went away. And I always had puffy nips from that but it never really bothered me especially when my chest grew and filled out alot but after I discontinuned some prohormone and steroid use the gyno came back. I don't want to go spend the money on surgery just yet I'd like to try some letrozole or anastrozole and see how that works.

[kingsmen911]

How long after you get off of your cycle will you see gyno occurr if it is going to.

its depend wat u taking and for how long

[juvi4eva]

hey guys, im the same boat as many of u, i am 24 and use prohormones for about two years on and off from say age 20 to 22. i first noticed a lump under my left nipple about a month or two about my final ph cycle of MIT. it is only under my left, although my right nipple, while there is no lump, does carry a bit of bodyfat. My chest has never been rock hard though, despite good size and strength. right now i am 6 feet 224 trying to lose some bf but keeping a very high protein diet, i want to see if it helps my gyno. i went to th dr in june to make sure its not breast cancer which she said no, she said to do nothing about it but come back in 6 months and that i hsould make sure its not test cancer (which she said is probably being overcautiuos). well, i didnt get checked out for test cancer but when i go back i will try to score a nolvadex prescription. since my breast is still tender and its only been a year and a half i am hoping i can reduce it a bit and it is still growing. i ordered epistane to see if that helps also, and in th past i used rebound xt and for the first two weeks i felt my lump become much less noticeable. this is just my experience, im waiting for epistane on back order and will use it 4 weeks, then use tribulus and rebound for pct. if this in conjunction with bf loss doesnt work to my liking, i will go back to the dr in jan. any comments or advice appreciated!

[hollisterboy123]

I tried epistane and It didn't help at all. Epistane is another Prohormone. I've been taking Novedex XT from gaspari and that seemed to help and now I'm taking formadrol from LG and T3 Nitro from NX Care and I've seen a small reduction in size and tenderness. You're best bet is to go with Letrozole or Arimidex. You can get the liquid versions of these products on websites like Chemone.com If I'm not mistaken. Letrozole can kill your sex drive but it will come but after you stop taking it. Arimidex might be your safe bet.

[Danzig85]

Hi, I am new to steroids and just about to start my first course.
An 8 week course of Deca and Sustanon 1ml a week.
Anyway I am pretty terrified of gyno. I have a bit of fat on my chest already and slightly puffy nips as it is.
What is the best thing to have handy if I start noticing symptoms? Will I maybe be ok if I am taking what I would imagine is a reasonably low dosage of Sustanon and Deca?

Thanks

[r557]

About 8-10 months ago, i noticed a sharp pain underneath my nipple area when i was laying down and my tried to climb on me and lick my face. she walked on my nipple area and suprised how much it hurt. I can feel a hard lump underneath my nipple area.

I've been to my Dr. who has done several tests, sent me to a surgeon who says it's gynecomastia. He said he wouldn't do anything about it.

I am trying to trace back to how this happened. About 5-6 years ago, (I'm 26 now) i took probably 6 canisters of Animal Stak (19-Nor/Andro pre ban formula). Other hormone related item i've taken during that period was Dianabol (either Thai or anabols, it was small pink pills approx 4-6 weeks).

Since then, i haven't taken any more pro-hormones and believe the gyno is more related to my weight gain (probably 40lbs over last 2 years, but been slowing taking it back off).

I am wondering what treatment options are available out there. I have seen some posts related to Nolvadex but wondering if i'm past the point now where it would even do anything or is Surgery my only real option now to get rid of this?

[Athlete41]

I have a question, If i am starting my cycle (I am doing a 3-4 week cycle of S-Drol) and during the first week i would happen to notice gyno should i start using nolvadex as sson as i see it or still wait till the end of my cycle,
If i should start using the nolva right away should i stop my cycle or continue using the nolva during the cycle?

[Goliath123]

Whats up. I'm looking to run sustanon 250, cytomel t3, and clenbuterol. Has anyone gotten ridiculous results from this stack. Looking to pack on 15 lean lbs and shred the fat. Any feedback would be great. Thanks,

250 ml sust per week
pyramid t3 - start at 25 mcg work upto 100 mcg and then back down again
clenbuterol - work my way upto 80 mcgs per week.

[Muay Thai]

Guys, I started a mild Test E cycle recently. This is the 3rd week of my cycle and so far this is what I've been doing:

Test E 250mg once every 5 days
Proviron since 2nd week
Vitamin B, C, iron, zinc and milk thistle tablets since beginning of cycle

I already have small symptoms of gyno, nothing major at the moment but I know it's coming so I guess I should launch a pre-emptive attack. I'm suprised I got symptoms of gyno so quickly on such small doses but I guess i'm sensitive to gyno.

Btw my nipples are not sensitive, they are starting to stick out a little in a triangular shape (if that's the explanation) and left nipple feels like the sensitivity and discomfort will come soon.

I have Nolvadex and HCG in my stash. What should I do?

[DrBermant]

Thank you for retrieving this deleted thread!

Michael Bermant, MD
Board Certified
American Board of Plastic Surgery