@2nd SD CYCLE!!!

[thebutcher01]

This is my 2nd SD cycle, and it will start monday january 9th. For details about my last cycle i have information about it in another post titled 2nd SD cycle-but there is a yellow smiley face on it rather than a green one. Here is the outline:

wk 1- 30mg+primaforce ZMA
wk 2- 30mg+primaforce ZMA
wk 3- 40mg+primaforce ZMA
PCT:
wk 1- 40mg of nolvadex+75mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA
wk 2- 20mg of nolvadex+50mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA
wk 3- 20mg of nolvadex+25mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA

note: the dosage of nolva will be split up twice a day- half in the morning, half in the evening about 8 hrs later.

suppport supps included the following:
RYR
coq10
saw palmetto
milk thistle
fish oil
creatine monohydrate
White Blood

Diet consisted of apprx 4500-5000 kcals per day, 1.5-2 gallons of water, 300+g of protein, 400-500 grams of carbs, 60-70g of fat (all numbers not to a "T"-but close enough) primarily, egg whites, whole grain bread, bran muffins, oats, turkey breast, tuna, cottage cheese, cheese, nuts, peanut butter, beef, beans, veggies, fruits, skim milk, yogurt, water and whey protein

Training: I will be using the GVT routine designed by Charles
Poloquin. (http://www.musclemedia.com/training/gvt.asp) I just finished the 8 wk OVT routine designed by Christian Tibadeau, and took this week as a low volume recovery wk.

Hopes and Expectations: In my last cycle I gained apprx. 10 lbs of lean mass. This next cycle i am hoping to gain another 10-12lbs but perhaps a bit more w/the combination of German Volume Training.

[C-Los 21]

This is my 2nd SD cycle, and it will start monday january 9th. For details about my last cycle i have information about it in another post titled 2nd SD cycle-but there is a yellow smiley face on it rather than a green one. Here is the outline:

wk 1- 30mg+primaforce ZMA
wk 2- 30mg+primaforce ZMA
wk 3- 40mg+primaforce ZMA
PCT:
wk 1- 40mg of nolvadex+75mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA
wk 2- 20mg of nolvadex+50mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA
wk 3- 20mg of nolvadex+25mg of Rebound XT+2 625mg ON tribulus capsuls+primaforce ZMA

note: the dosage of nolva will be split up twice a day- half in the morning, half in the evening about 8 hrs later.

suppport supps included the following:
RYR
coq10
saw palmetto
milk thistle
fish oil
creatine monohydrate
White Blood

Diet consisted of apprx 4500-5000 kcals per day, 1.5-2 gallons of water, 300+g of protein, 400-500 grams of carbs, 60-70g of fat (all numbers not to a "T"-but close enough) primarily, egg whites, whole grain bread, bran muffins, oats, turkey breast, tuna, cottage cheese, cheese, nuts, peanut butter, beef, beans, veggies, fruits, skim milk, yogurt, water and whey protein

Training: I will be using the GVT routine designed by Charles
Poloquin. (http://www.musclemedia.com/training/gvt.asp) I just finished the 8 wk OVT routine designed by Christian Tibadeau, and took this week as a low volume recovery wk.

Hopes and Expectations: In my last cycle I gained apprx. 10 lbs of lean mass. This next cycle i am hoping to gain another 10-12lbs but perhaps a bit more w/the combination of German Volume Training.
Is that 40mg of Superdrol?!?!?!?!
Consume Nolva all before going to bed/at night.
Preload?
Hawthorn ?

Terrible planning!

[R_N_S]

that's a ton of SD, and bump to taking all the nolva pre bed, and you're obviously not dialed in with your diet; who are you trying to kid?

300g of protein + 500g of carbs + 70g of fat = 1200+2000+630=3830 calories. And those are the max amounts you gave. You're not even close to the 4500-5000 calories you said you'd eat, and if you're that off with those numbers you're obviously not responsible enough to bulk without steroids, which means you shouldn't be using steroids; period.

[C-Los 21]

How old are you?

[MyTMouse]

I also recommend Hawthorn, also maybe try celery seed. Never done Superdrol before, but I do know that these supps are good for blood pressure.

I take celery seed during my workout sometimes (especially during the cold months) because my blood pressure spikes, and it causes my ears to hurt so bad that I can't bear to lift. (I have actually had them bleed a time or two, when I was having blood pressure problems. That is all a thing of the past though. once I got my diet and lifestyle in check, I am healthy).

just a friendly suggestion.

some also recommend policosanol for your lipid profile. don't know anything about that from personal experience though.

[Fedaykin]

yup, cals are off a bit, lol. We talked about the SD dose, right? He DOES eat clean with his diet - I can attest to that. The support supps could use some work too. I don't know whats wrong with taking the nolva in two doses?? I do well with it like that.

Other support supps include:
policosanol
NAC
Celery seed

Keep us updated and shoot me an e-mail when you get back to college. Good luck and STAY SAFE!!!

[cheezefacta]

My friend played around with dosages at 40/50 of Superdrol and got WICKED sick for over a week. I had to call him after not seeing him at the gym for a week and he was just stuck in bed with major stomach pains and he couldnt do anything....went to the doctors and everything. Im not trying to be a father figure here, but just be careful. He pisses me off cuz he made me way too scared to try superdrol now :(

[40-Yard Dash_2]

What do you expect from something that has the potential to trash your blood lipid levels in just under a month? Excluding genetics, how long do you think it takes for a person to develop high cholesterol? Years and years of poor diet, and not exercising. Basically, not taking care of themselves, and SD has accomplished this in such a short period. Something is wrong.

[thebutcher01]

let me clear up a few things...i have added policonsonal and hawthorne berry in2 the equation...i bought some bottles of each this wknd...ok so i mighta been a bit off w/the kcals...i suck at math, the nolva wont be taken b4 bed..it will be split up for 1st thing in the AM, and late afternoon, i get up early! also, i my last SD split was 20/30/40 and did find on 40mg...i gained about 10-12 lbs and kept it!

heres even a sample meal plan..maybe u all could help me w/the numbers

1. 12 egg whites (2 whole), 2 whole wheat bagels w/low fat creamcheese, 2 bran muffins, bannana, and 32 oz of skim milk

2. 2 scoops of ON whey, 16 oz of skim milk, 1/2 cup of oats, 2 tbl spoons of peanut butter

3. 2 slices of whole wheat bread, veggies, 10 oz of lean turkey breast, 1 large bowl of chilli, 32 oz of skim milk

4. PREWO- 40-60 g of complex carbs, 30-40 gr of protein- 2 pieces of fruit, 32 oz of skim milk

5. PWO- 2 scoops of ON whey, 100g of simple carbs, 1/2 cups of oats, 16 oz of skim milk, 2tlbs of peanut butter

6. 2 cups of cottage cheese w/equal, 1 piece of fruit

off 2 bed!

[thebutcher01]

today was the first day of SD. I got up at exactly 8am i chased down 10mg of SD w/aout 12 oz of cold water...15 minutes later I ate breakfast which consisted of 10 egg whites, 1 cup of cooked oats, 1 bran muffin, a pear, and 32 oz of skim milk. I also began loading creatine so directly after break fast i had 5g of cre. monohydrate w/100g of simple carbs. about 1 and half hrs later i had a shake consisting of 2 scoops of ON whey protein, and 12 oz of 2% milk, and 2 bran muffins. about 1 and 1 half hrs later i ate lunch wich consisted of a sandwhich w/1 can of tuna, a little mayonaise, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, whole wheat bread, and 2 slices of cheese. I also had a huge bowl of chilli, 32 oz of skim milk, and some fruit w/it...2nd does of creatine, 5g/100g of simple carbs. 1.5 hrs later...another shake w/2 bran muffins. 2day isnt even over and it feel pumped and full...it feels great 2 be bulking again after cutting for 3 weeks. Training will take place around 7pm 2 nite...GVT- back/chest- calves as well(they are trained 3-4times per wk heavy) (and 2-3 times per week w/bodywt.) last does of SD will be taken around 6pm 2nite. I've also drank about 1 gallon of water so far 2day. Support sups are taken in between SD doses and mostly early in the day. I will be loading creatine for 3 days and then going on a maintaince phase.

[Fedaykin]

today was the first day of SD. I got up at exactly 8am i chased down 10mg of SD w/aout 12 oz of cold water...15 minutes later I ate breakfast which consisted of 10 egg whites, 1 cup of cooked oats, 1 bran muffin, a pear, and 32 oz of skim milk. I also began loading creatine so directly after break fast i had 5g of cre. monohydrate w/100g of simple carbs. about 1 and half hrs later i had a shake consisting of 2 scoops of ON whey protein, and 12 oz of 2% milk, and 2 bran muffins. about 1 and 1 half hrs later i ate lunch wich consisted of a sandwhich w/1 can of tuna, a little mayonaise, pickles, lettuce, tomatoes, whole wheat bread, and 2 slices of cheese. I also had a huge bowl of chilli, 32 oz of skim milk, and some fruit w/it...2nd does of creatine, 5g/100g of simple carbs. 1.5 hrs later...another shake w/2 bran muffins. 2day isnt even over and it feel pumped and full...it feels great 2 be bulking again after cutting for 3 weeks. Training will take place around 7pm 2 nite...GVT- back/chest- calves as well(they are trained 3-4times per wk heavy) (and 2-3 times per week w/bodywt.) last does of SD will be taken around 6pm 2nite. I've also drank about 1 gallon of water so far 2day. Support sups are taken in between SD doses and mostly early in the day. I will be loading creatine for 3 days and then going on a maintaince phase.

you definately eat big. Thats for sure. How did you like the oats? Did you get some calipers and a cloth tape? Best of luck big S ;)

[thebutcher01]

havent tried the oats...im gonna be grinding em up 2nite...but im already feeling bigger lol! w/all the creatine and food ive been pumping in...i just went out and had a big plate of pasta w/meat sauce and my 3rd outa 4 servings of creatine...the girls said i smelled good 2 casue i dowsed myself in TAG bodyspray! lol...but im going 2 wrk out in about 20 mins so im pumped 2 do that...and ill be reporting back afterwards.

[cheezefacta]

havent tried the oats...im gonna be grinding em up 2nite...but im already feeling bigger lol! w/all the creatine and food ive been pumping in...i just went out and had a big plate of pasta w/meat sauce and my 3rd outa 4 servings of creatine...the girls said i smelled good 2 casue i dowsed myself in TAG bodyspray! lol...but im going 2 wrk out in about 20 mins so im pumped 2 do that...and ill be reporting back afterwards.

I use the blue colored TAG bottle and that **** gets lots of compliments. Not bad for like 3 bucks :)

[Fedaykin]

havent tried the oats...im gonna be grinding em up 2nite...but im already feeling bigger lol! w/all the creatine and food ive been pumping in...i just went out and had a big plate of pasta w/meat sauce and my 3rd outa 4 servings of creatine...the girls said i smelled good 2 casue i dowsed myself in TAG bodyspray! lol...but im going 2 wrk out in about 20 mins so im pumped 2 do that...and ill be reporting back afterwards.

Tell me how boring GVT gets. GET SOME!!!

[thebutcher01]

ok so i did the GVT training 2nite...lots of energy in the gym...the wts. didnt seem 2 get 2 much heavier...but i did notice a small amt. of fatigue between sets 8-10...nothing major tho...it felt and looked like my body parts were blown up! I am continuing 2 eat 2 day...had a PWO shake consisting of 2 scoops of ON whey, 4 tbl spoons of sugar, 5g of creatine, 12 oz of 2% milk, and some left over appple juice, and a white muffin. soon i will be eating some oats, more milk, and probably some cheese as well...ZMA before bed. Feels like the cycle is off 2 a really good start!

[IcyHotNate]

I don't think you will be noticing too much untill about a week into your cycle ;)

Toward the end of my first week I really noticed a change in my size. Remember to drink water to, not just milk. I had about 2 gallons of water a day, and drank 2 cups of milk, and one glass of OJ every morning.

[thebutcher01]

yes- i drink much more than milk...i carry a gallon water jug around w/me and end up filling it twice a day....ya i remember thats how it was w/my 1st SD cycle...nothing really kicked in especially size wise, until week 2.

[Fedaykin]

yes- i drink much more than milk...i carry a gallon water jug around w/me and end up filling it twice a day....ya i remember thats how it was w/my 1st SD cycle...nothing really kicked in especially size wise, until week 2.

heh, day 5 for me. Remember the deadlifts? what was it, a 20lb PR??

Edit: did you get all 10 sets at 10 reps? If so, up the weight by 4-5%. Get f-ing HUGE!!!!

[thebutcher01]

day of the SD cycle...trained legs yesterday...10x10 of front squats supersetted w/seated leg curls. pretty f-ing sore 2day! lol...been eating alot...eqq white, whole wheat bread, and bagels, bran muffins, milk, fruit, oats, whey protein, and a **** load of cold water. i swear i look a bit bigger already, but its prob. due 2 the fact that ive been loading creatine. my energy is good, and feeling strong w/the wts. my back def looks thicker as well. feeling no sides what so ever...and still going strong w/30mg.

[thebutcher01]

welll 2day was the 1st cheat day that i had in god knows how long! lol...after eating most of my meals for the day, i went out to eat w/some freinds and had a giant hamburger w/cheese, bacon, and fries. I also ate 1 half of a giant bowl of mussles and a huge piece of oreo cheese cake after words. it was funny...i looked really full and felt really pumped after that meal...about 3 hrs later i gulped down a protien shake w/milk and my last serving of creatine, and a whole wheat bagel, and then went to bed. 2day i train arms and shoulders and will keep everyone posted on that.

[thebutcher01]

today was the beginning of wk 2 of the cycle. still 30mg perday...feeling no sides at all, no cramps, bloating, etc. increased sex drive, and strength seems to be up a bit as well. im eating alot, lots of egg whites, protein powder, bread, rice, muffins, and whole wheat bagels. the GVT is going really well, incredible pumps and i love the deep soreness you feel the next day. hitting legs to nite...back squats supersetted w/ leg curls. should be fun. thats about all...drinking a ton of water...1.5-2 gallons perday.

[Fedaykin]

keep up the hard work. Good to see it's working well. Did you get the tape and calliper?

[thebutcher01]

holy ****! trained legs 2nite...i think the drug is starting 2 kick in...my legs were incredibly pumped after the 10x10 supersets...and i could barely walk afterwards! it was ****ing great! havent gotten the tape and calipers yet...but i can already tell that i am looking fuller and thicker...my arms are feelilng tingly and full pretty much all day...so that must mean i am practically having a 24 hr pump! still no sides to report yet...going strong w/the support sups! i really think people take SD a bit 2 serious! i mean come on 40mg isnt that much...its still in the safe range...and the drug is **** compared to lets say a...test e./deca/dbol cycle! id say if anything the latter is a bit more toxic! ;-) besides the fact that i seem 2 be supplementing well, i am eating a **** load! lots of egg whites, a ton of water...i prob drink like 6 32oz nalgene bottles of water perday...along w/prob a half gallon of milk total, and not 2 mention the other food...tuna sandwhiches, peanut butter, muffins, bread, and oatmeal! i like SD...its a good drug...but i really cant wait 2 start the test e./dbol cycle next yr! that **** will blow me the **** up...way more than SD...but its def a good starter! thats all 4 now...ill keep y'all posted!

[ccrunner25]

holy ****! trained legs 2nite...i think the drug is starting 2 kick in...my legs were incredibly pumped after the 10x10 supersets...and i could barely walk afterwards! it was ****ing great! havent gotten the tape and calipers yet...but i can already tell that i am looking fuller and thicker...my arms are feelilng tingly and full pretty much all day...so that must mean i am practically having a 24 hr pump! still no sides to report yet...going strong w/the support sups! i really think people take SD a bit 2 serious! i mean come on 40mg isnt that much...its still in the safe range...and the drug is **** compared to lets say a...test e./deca/dbol cycle! id say if anything the latter is a bit more toxic! ;-) besides the fact that i seem 2 be supplementing well, i am eating a **** load! lots of egg whites, a ton of water...i prob drink like 6 32oz nalgene bottles of water perday...along w/prob a half gallon of milk total, and not 2 mention the other food...tuna sandwhiches, peanut butter, muffins, bread, and oatmeal! i like SD...its a good drug...but i really cant wait 2 start the test e./dbol cycle next yr! that **** will blow me the **** up...way more than SD...but its def a good starter! thats all 4 now...ill keep y'all posted!

Supderdrol... safe? Its methylated man. In other words, your liver is constantly taking a pounding. Is it "safe" to drink all day for weeks at a time? No. And you say its less toxic then test e./deca/dbol? WRONG. Those are injectables which means it does NOT pass through the liver and cause damaging affects to your internal organs. Superdrol can cause irreversable damage if taken carelessly. I don't mean to flame, but I really dont think you understand what your taking. Methastron is the steroid compound in Superdrol. So it IS steroids but is METHYLATED opposed to injectable which gives it added sides and damaging affects.

[thebutcher01]

rest day 2day! lots of sleeping, eating, and relaxing. my legs are pretty friend from yesterday...so im quite happy about that! i slept really well last nite after the leg wrk out! it looks like im def putting on size...but ill keep y'all posted!

[ccrunner25]

oops double post

[HugeBama05]

Sounds like your trying to over do the whole cycle to me. I would be careful. I had good results with just 10/10/20mg's.

[thebutcher01]

well duh...of course i know SD is methalyted and liver toxic...but compared to orals such as Dbol...or possibly anadrol...those r def stronger...however, if u also read, most gains r made between 20-40mg...its not a superpowerful AAS...actually a weaker one if u read bigcat's SD write up...and especially for me...i way over 200lbs...i will not gain on just 10mg per day!

[R_N_S]

how long did you run it for 10mg?

[TravisLehr]

actually a weaker one if u read bigcat's SD write up...and especially for me...i way over 200lbs...i will not gain on just 10mg per day!

how about growin guns making huge gains with 10/20/20 cycles? i weigh over 200 pounds as well and gained 16 pounds my first time around at that dosage and u only gained 10-12. im already close to 10 pounds this cycle, and will probably end up with 15 at least when its over at 20/20/20. just something to think about. 40mg is ridiculous.

[thebutcher01]

on my frist cycle i ran 20/30/40....i never reallly began to notice gains until the 2nd wk when i bumped it up to 30mg. i know some gain on as little as 20mg...my buddy did in fact...how ever everyone is different...for example 10mg of M1T was not enough for me...and it was only when bumped it up to 20mg did i begin to notice a difference. however for safetys sake...since i seem to being doing fine on 30...i dont think i will increase the dosage to 40mg..just keep it at a 30/30/30 cycle rather than the 30/30/40 as planned before. i wish i was someone who was able to gain on as little as 10mg but unfortunatly im not. possibly for my next cycle i will experiment and try the 10/20/20 approach...and see how much my gains differ. i am someone who was not gifted with a ton of muscle receptors and i have a genetically small build...i have wrked my ass off to get up over 200lbs while still maintaining a fairly low bf %...so unlike people who can gain 18 lbs from 20mg of SD i cant! im very very happy if i gain 8-10 and thats w/a lota hard wrk and proper eatin!!! I'll keep everyone posted on my results!

[R_N_S]

for what it's worth, I don't think anybody notices gains from SD until the second week, regardless of dosage.

[El_Uneis]

does steroids cause turtle belly?

how about sd and methyl masterdrol?

peace

[MyTMouse]

does steroids cause turtle belly?

how about sd and methyl masterdrol?

peace

typically a distended belly comes from water retention, and internal bloat (I actually got it from eating a little too clean.

Some also say that Growth Hormone causes it due to increasing the size of the organs behind the abdominal wall. I don't know if that is true or not, as I have never done a cycle. My knowledge is all based on research, and cycles that others have done.

SD, I doubt will cause it, being that it has slight diuretic properties. But anything is possible. You might try searching the logs of other guys on here. There are many many.... many logs for SD, and Methyl MD. Also, methyl-drol is the same compound as SD and Methyl MD. Read the side effects they listed, and maybe just chat it up with a couple of the guys who have tried it.

THE SEARCH FUNCTION IS YOUR FRIEND. I promise.

EDIT: and search for "superdrol for dummies" if you have not read that yet. It is a great post by Krzna.

You can also search for more info on distended belly, as there is a lot of info out there on it. Check out the steroid section too.

[ccrunner25]

on my frist cycle i ran 20/30/40....i never reallly began to notice gains until the 2nd wk when i bumped it up to 30mg. i know some gain on as little as 20mg...my buddy did in fact...how ever everyone is different...for example 10mg of M1T was not enough for me...and it was only when bumped it up to 20mg did i begin to notice a difference. however for safetys sake...since i seem to being doing fine on 30...i dont think i will increase the dosage to 40mg..just keep it at a 30/30/30 cycle rather than the 30/30/40 as planned before. i wish i was someone who was able to gain on as little as 10mg but unfortunatly im not. possibly for my next cycle i will experiment and try the 10/20/20 approach...and see how much my gains differ. i am someone who was not gifted with a ton of muscle receptors and i have a genetically small build...i have wrked my ass off to get up over 200lbs while still maintaining a fairly low bf %...so unlike people who can gain 18 lbs from 20mg of SD i cant! im very very happy if i gain 8-10 and thats w/a lota hard wrk and proper eatin!!! I'll keep everyone posted on my results!

The reason you did not notice any gains until the 2nd week (30mg for you, but dosage does not matter in this case) is because it takes your body about that long for your muscle receptors to become saturated with the steroidal compound so experiment with lower dosages but be patient throughout the cycle. Also, it is more wise to keep journals and go by how much strength you are gaining along with "mirror checks" (in which you visually look at your physique changes) instead of what a scale tells you...

[djplatano]

this kid is thick headed and he won't listen to any negative things you say to him about his cycle. we have pretty big guys here and they all say the same about 40 mg being too much. and nobody will see a SD gain the first week, maybe by the middle of the 2nd week no matter if you only take 10mg or 40mg. Take care dude, don't do something now you'll regret in 10 years from now.

[HugeBama05]

this kid is thick headed and he won't listen to any negative things you say to him about his cycle. we have pretty big guys here and they all say the same about 40 mg being too much. and nobody will see a SD gain the first week, maybe by the middle of the 2nd week no matter if you only take 10mg or 40mg. Take care dude, don't do something now you'll regret in 10 years from now.


Well put!

[MyTMouse]

for what it's worth, I don't think anybody notices gains from SD until the second week, regardless of dosage.

I have noticed this being true as well. Just looking at the logs of many users, that seems to be the case.

butcher (and anyone else for that matter)- I would recommend doing what many others have done. stick with 10-20 mg for the first two weeks at least, then in the third week, if you still aren't seeing gains, and the sides are not severe, bump it up to 30mg. I STRONGLY recommend that anyone using SD (or any substance like it) use the smallest effective dosage.

EDIT: just realized you are only running a 3 week cycle. I would still recommend only going to 20mg per day, MAYBE 30mg the last week. Basically, I just think you should start with lower dosages. but I'm not gonna try to tell you what to do.

[thebutcher01]

i first want to start off by saying thank you for the constructive criticism and suggestions...i realize that i do not know everything and all of your imput is appreciated. i do know that gains dont kick in till sometime during the 2nd wk...however, in bigcats SD write up(whos advice i will trust over anyones') said that SD should not be used in dosages over 40MG...therefore i am still in the safe zone...he also said that was for a duration of 5-6 wks...i am only going for 3 wks...big dif! lol...training arms and shoulders 2nite...GVT style of course...i'll keep u all updated...thankx again!

[MyTMouse]

i first want to start off by saying thank you for the constructive criticism and suggestions...i realize that i do not know everything and all of your imput is appreciated. i do know that gains dont kick in till sometime during the 2nd wk...however, in bigcats SD write up(whos advice i will trust over anyones') said that SD should not be used in dosages over 40MG...therefore i am still in the safe zone...he also said that was for a duration of 5-6 wks...i am only going for 3 wks...big dif! lol...training arms and shoulders 2nite...GVT style of course...i'll keep u all updated...thankx again!

absolutely that is a big difference. I am not saying that it is going to kill you because you take 40mg in one day, causing you to go into immediate cardiac arrest, and turning your liver into a loofa. That obviously is not going to happen.

My point was simply that you should always use the lowest effective dosage. The following is just my opinion, as is everything that I write, just about, :D

for a 3 week SD cycle, I always recommend people go for 20mg ed, all 3 weeks.

for a 6 week cycle, I recommend 20,20,20,wk4 20-30,wk5 30, wk6 30-40.

The reasoning being that over the duration of the cycle, the compound (or any steroidal compound you happen to be using) becomes less effective. I also believe that this is why big cat recommended NO MORE THAN 40 mg and no longer than 5-6 weeks. I think the 40mg assumes you are doing a 5-6 week cycle.

I also want to say that I respect Big Cat in a big way. Reading his posts, and articles have done a lot to educate me on a number of things.

When I recommended the lower dosages for a 3 week cycle, it was more because I believe you can get "more for your money" so to speak. You can probably get the same gains with a lower dosage in such a short cycle. Also, using smaller doses may even make it possible for you to squeeze 2 cycles out of one bottle.

I know for this cycle you are going to continue with what you planned, but just take this into consideration for future cycles. I honestly wish i had caught on to the dosages you were planning sooner, but I guess i just didn't pay enough attention.

[Fedaykin]

absolutely that is a big difference. I am not saying that it is going to kill you because you take 40mg in one day, causing you to go into immediate cardiac arrest, and turning your liver into a loofa. That obviously is not going to happen.

My point was simply that you should always use the lowest effective dosage. The following is just my opinion, as is everything that I write, just about, :D

for a 3 week SD cycle, I always recommend people go for 20mg ed, all 3 weeks.

for a 6 week cycle, I recommend 20,20,20,wk4 20-30,wk5 30, wk6 30-40.

The reasoning being that over the duration of the cycle, the compound (or any steroidal compound you happen to be using) becomes less effective. I also believe that this is why big cat recommended NO MORE THAN 40 mg and no longer than 5-6 weeks. I think the 40mg assumes you are doing a 5-6 week cycle.

I also want to say that I respect Big Cat in a big way. Reading his posts, and articles have done a lot to educate me on a number of things.

When I recommended the lower dosages for a 3 week cycle, it was more because I believe you can get "more for your money" so to speak. You can probably get the same gains with a lower dosage in such a short cycle. Also, using smaller doses may even make it possible for you to squeeze 2 cycles out of one bottle.

I know for this cycle you are going to continue with what you planned, but just take this into consideration for future cycles. I honestly wish i had caught on to the dosages you were planning sooner, but I guess i just didn't pay enough attention.

^^^ I tend to agree with this^^^ You definately do seem to like to over-do some things. Either way, I hope it works out alright. You should get bloodwork done post PCT.

BTW: I don't think he is going for another cycle of SD... Just so you know.

[thebutcher01]

well...yes...i guess maybe 30mg is maybe a bit 2 much...i just figured that since it was my 2nd cycle, that logically i'd need a bit more...however fedaykin is right, this is my last cycle. i must say i'm really not seeing what SD is all cracked up 2 be. i eat right, train hard, and rest plenty, and i am almost done my 2nd week, however all that ive noticed is a bit more thickness and some muslce pumps. Bigcat is totally right in saying that it is not a serious muslce builder what so ever. one thinking of taking steroids and looking for serious gains, should definatly opt. for test rather than wasting money on these junky designer steroids, that really are not all they are cracked up 2 be. however i will finish out my cycle, and do proper PCT, but just wait until next year. when i have more money and i can buy my dbol/test e. cycle.- something that will really put some mass on me! i just wish i was someone who could gain 15-20 lbs off of SD...i'll keep y'all posted!

[MyTMouse]

that's cool. I guess you really cant expect these things to work for everyone. I know a few guys of all sizes that say they got good results from this stuff. and I know almost as many who have said it isn't worth the time, effort and money.

One thing to keep in mind though, both for the SD cycle, and your Test/dbol cycle in the future is that your body needs more nutrition when you are on cycle. I believe Big Cat wrote an article (or perhaps it was just a forum post) on this as well. I believe I am quoting correctly that the natural athlete needs about 15-16 cals (per lb of body weight) to maintain, whereas on cycle, you need 22-25 cals per lb.

So just keep in mind that the compounds cant work if they don't have "building material". I am probably preaching to the choir here. But I felt like it should at least be said, if for noone's benefit other than guys trying to educate themselves. (not that I am the worlds foremost educator).

anyway. good luck with the rest of the SD cycle. dont give up on it, I know a guy who did a three week cycle, and didn't gain an ounce until week 3. He gained 8 lbs that last week, if im not mistaken.

[thebutcher01]

thankx 4 all the advice MyTmouse...its def appreciated...ya, im eating alot, heres a sample meal scheduel for a day:
1. 10 egg whites, 2 cups of oats, 6 slices of orange, 5 glasses of water
2. 4 bran muffins, 2 scoops of ON whey, 12 oz of 2% milk
3. 1 sandwhich(whole wheat bread, 10oz of turkey, mustard, a bit of mayo, and veggies), a small cup of fruit salad, a big bowl of chilli, and 4 cups of skim milk.
4. 3-4 whole wheat bagels w/peanut butter, 32 oz of skim milk, 2 scops of ON whey
5. 1 plate, of stir fry w/chicken, whole wheat pasta, veggies, and teryaki or soy sauce, 1 small cup of fruit, 4 cups of skim milk, usually some sort of meat-beef, chicken, or pork.
6. PWO- 2 scoops of ON whey, 4 tbls of white sugar, 12 oz of 2%milk, 5g of creatine, 1 teaspoon of flax meal, and a banana.
7. 12 inch tureky grinder, or 4 pieces of toast w/peanut butter, water, and usually and orange of 2.

That is basically what i eat per day...along w/about 1.5-2 gallons of water, some of the meals vary a bit, but the essentials stay constant.

So, i just can't see that my nutrition is off...but maybe it is?
BTW- 2nd wk is almost over...and im not even close to being shut down yet, it fact its up even more! lol!

[MyTMouse]

you need a bigger sandwich for meal 3. about 50 oz would be better. :D

seriously dude, I have never really liked turkey, so maybe this is why I feel this way, but 10 oz of turkey seems like a good bit to have to scarf down. I could be wrong, as I am not an avid turkey eater. :cool:

I don't think nutrition is your problem either. Unless you weigh 250lbs.

I felt the need to post that, because sometimes even the most knowledgable and well educated people can overlook details like that (albeit a very important one).

Plus, where dosage and drug of choice may be the issue for you, someone else reading this may find that nutrition is indeed their problem. So now at least we know we don't have guys running around taking PP/SD, and eating only 2000 calories per day; still expecting to gain 10-20 lbs on a cycle.

Please know that it is never my intention to flame anyone, nor embarass, "call out", "own", or whatever juvenile term people have for that kind of thing. (Unless of course they make some completely ridiculous post about pure garbage).

It is almost always my intention to educate people, or in your case to bounce a few ideas off of you, to try and salvage good gains for your money. Throwing decent ideas out there can't hurt. That's what the forums are for.

Okay, I'm done with this novel. :D

[thebutcher01]

MyTmouse- once again...ur imput does not go unappreciated! i was probably a bit pigheaded, and obstinate in the beginning, but i really value ur advice...it must be the case that my body just doesn't respond as well as others when on SD...2 be honest i dont think my gains r much greater than they'd naturally be. i'm even adding ground steel cut oats(1/2 cup each) into each shake...to really beef up the carb intake! however i will stay optimistic, and maybe ill rapidly gain all in the 3rd wk!

[MyTMouse]

MyTmouse- once again...ur imput does not go unappreciated! i was probably a bit pigheaded, and obstinate in the beginning, but i really value ur advice...it must be the case that my body just doesn't respond as well as others when on SD...2 be honest i dont think my gains r much greater than they'd naturally be. i'm even adding ground steel cut oats(1/2 cup each) into each shake...to really beef up the carb intake! however i will stay optimistic, and maybe ill rapidly gain all in the 3rd wk!

hopefully you can make some last minute gains. I would hate to think that you put all that SD in your body, and didn't get anything out of it except a messed up lipid profile.

If you don't mind me asking, have you ever done any "real" AAS cycles? I'm just curious.

[Sockomalo]

I use this supplement called Marijuana. while on cycle it helps increase my appetite and help me eat cleaner, just dont use it PRE workout or u probably wont work out

[MyTMouse]

I use this supplement called Marijuana. while on cycle it helps increase my appetite and help me eat cleaner, just dont use it PRE workout or u probably wont work out

:blink: ....k.

[thebutcher01]

well yes i have done 2 previous cycles- m1t/m5aa stack, and another SD cycle. 20/30/40. i will also be doing a 12 week test e. cycle frontloaded w/dbol(first 3 wks) starting next yr! right now im eating eating eating more...i had a seminar 2day...so i filled my bag w/bran muffins, fruit, and protein shakes w/oats and milk. i also ate my 10 egg whites, w/only 2 whole wheat bagles 2 day...but after my wrk out when im much hungrier ill eat 3-4 more, plus some tuna sandwhiches later on! going 2 do back/chest, and calves GVT style right now!

[MyTMouse]

i was asking mostly to see what you were comparing this to. when I said AAS, I was referring more to the long illegal stuff. Test, d-bol, winny, EQ, etc. I know guys who are very "experienced" AAS users that didn't get results from SD that were all that spectacular.

Really just a curiosity thing.

[thebutcher01]

nahh havnt done any hardcore AAS cycles yet...but im sure planning on it! its time 2 put on some serious mass and stop ****ing around w/this designer ****! lol!

[Fedaykin]

nahh havnt done any hardcore AAS cycles yet...but im sure planning on it! its time 2 put on some serious mass and stop ****ing around w/this designer ****! lol!

Have you stepped on a scale since you started the SD? I remember you having problems getting to one your last cycle. Tape/calipers?

[thebutcher01]

haven't been able to step on a scale yet...im gonna try to find one at least for after my cycle. Still doing 30mg for the last week. i have put on some size-probably due 2 the GVT which ive been following to the mark. i realized that people seem to be incorrect when they say that w/GVT you dont gain strenght. in fact i am 5lbs per excercise stronger ever next wrkout. my strenght gains seem to up a bit, but nothing mind blowing! lol! ive been eating more and more...adding a half of a cup of ground up steel cut oats to every proteing shake. i also eat rounghly 1 half of a loaf of multi grain bread every day+bran muffins, and whole wheat bagels. i am averaging about 2 gallons of water perday as well, as well as about 1 half gallon of milk. This will be my last SD cycle...for i dont not think that for myself, SD is worth my time money and effort. However on a more positive note, i think that GVT is perhaps one of the best training programs out there. i trained legs last nite, and it took me close to 10 minutes to limp to the locker room after the gym closed, and i had to sit there for about 15-20 mins just to let some of the pain disperse from my legs b4 i could walk again! and today they are just killing me!

[thebutcher01]

so only 5 more days of the cycle left! no major bodily changes that i notice...a bit more thickness and hardness, and small amt. of size..but mostly due 2 the GVT, and the amt of food im eating! no sides either...the SD didnt even shut me down! i have all my PCT planned and ready to go!

[Fedaykin]

so only 5 more days of the cycle left! no major bodily changes that i notice...a bit more thickness and hardness, and small amt. of size..but mostly due 2 the GVT, and the amt of food im eating! no sides either...the SD didnt even shut me down! i have all my PCT planned and ready to go!

keep us posted through PCT. I hope it all works out. You should at least step on the scale once to compare yourself now, from when you left. Good luck and stay safe!

[thebutcher01]

2 days of the SD cycle left...people have told me a look a bit bloated, and i notice a small increase in size...nothing that major tho. i would attribute the majority of my gains to the amt. of good food ive been eating the above all the GVT. if you have never tried GVT, try it. IMO it is better than any conventional bodybuilding program out there! it's simple and it works! i have noticed no sides...well 1 minor cramp which i quickly sovled w/a banana, and about 20oz of water...other than that no sides, and no shut down either. this drug I feel i can honestly say...had no mind blowing results for me! too bad...casue i put quite a bit of money into not only the SD, but really into my PCT, and support sups. my PCT will go as followed nolvadex-40/30/20+Rxt-3 caps, 2 caps, 1 cap+zma(regular serving size)+tribulus-2 625mg caps perday. Thats all...ill continue to update through out PCT!

[thebutcher01]

this is my last day of SD...on a scale of 1-10 ill give this drug 3. as a mass builder, it falls short of being even close to strong, and for strenght, it is only decent- at best. as far as sides are concered, i experienced virtually none, except 1 minor cramp which only lasted briefly and went away after water and a banana. other than that none! i consistently took my support supps, and kept my diet very high in protein and complex carbs. my gains in strenght, and size, although nothing shocking and major, were in part due to the high volume of the GVT which i followed and still am following for another 3 wks- very very consistently. on a personal note, i dont not think this drug is worth the money- especially w/the costs of PCT/support sups- they seem 2 be roughly tripple the cost of the actual drug! although i was not able to have access to a scale, using the mirror as a judge, i in complete honesty noticed nothing that impressive. w/my remaining SD- i have enough for a 20/20 cycle, i plan on selling it, seeing as a i have no further use for it, and continue my training just using basic supps- trib, zma, protein, creatine etc. until i start my test/dbol cycle next fall. thanks to everyone for all of the advice, and imput, i will be updating through out PCT! P.S.- this drug didnt even shut me down and i did a 30/30/30 cycle! :-)

[stEam_B()at]

this is my last day of SD...on a scale of 1-10 ill give this drug 3.

I GOT TO GIVE YOU A 0.9 FOR THIS LOG.! :)

[thebutcher01]

why such a low mark steam boat? my log was really detailed? just wondering thats all...tomorrow AM around 9, i will take my first 20mg of nolvadex+my 1st trib pill, around noon ill take my 3 caps of Rxt, around 2 ill take my 2nd trib pill and around 5-6 ill take my 2nd dose of nolvadex, and about 1 hr. b4 bed on an empty stomach, ill take my serving of ZMA. ill continue to keep everyone posted.

[stEam_B()at]

was just kidding dude dont get your panties ina bunch ;)

[Nathan1]

wow....just wow. :eek:

[thatsdefyo]

how can u not find a scale

[MyTMouse]

I would like to suggest again that you take all of your nolva at night, just before bed, whether it be 20 mg or 40mg.

[thebutcher01]

40mg of nolva before bed? ill give it try...i trust ur judgement myTmouse. just curious tho, would there be a huge difference if i split the dosage up as opposed to taking it all at once? just curious. In regards to a scale, i go to a nice canadian school, where everything is high class and expensive, well except for the gym...that is. it is one of the most beat up and disheveled places i have ever seen. the weights are all broken, and theres not even any standard equiptment, such as a proper pull down machine for example. there is no scale to be found, possibily one in the football training room, but going in a room with a bunch of 300+ lb, 6.5 ft tall, men that i dont even know, and asking if i can use there scale, is just a bit on the scary side! lol! so i really have to rely on the mirror as my judge.

[MyTMouse]

taking the split dosage is okay I guess, but at night your hormones are working overtime. Most people know that testosterone levels go up at night, but when that happens, it is also being aromatized in to estrogen. So your estrogen goes up at night. Taking a SERM at night has the highest effect because it keeps estrogen from binding to target areas when hormone levels are at their highest.

This is why all the ATD supplements, and other Anti-estrogen supplements out there say that the MOST IMPORTANT dose is at night, and some even say to only take it at night.

I mean, it won't necessarily hurt to split the dosage up, but it will have a better effect if taken all at once before bed.

I will admit that I don't know the EXACT science behind it, but it seems to be pretty common to take it all at once before bed.

[thebutcher01]

wow- took my 1st 40mg of nolva+3 Rxt caps 2 nite...i knew nolva tasted bad...but had no idea it was this bad? i had 2 eat peanut butter after every squirt...and drank about a quarter gallon of water trying 2 chase it down! but stilll eating big, and lifting hard!

[DRP7]

taking the split dosage is okay I guess, but at night your hormones are working overtime. Most people know that testosterone levels go up at night, but when that happens, it is also being aromatized in to estrogen. So your estrogen goes up at night. Taking a SERM at night has the highest effect because it keeps estrogen from binding to target areas when hormone levels are at their highest.

This is why all the ATD supplements, and other Anti-estrogen supplements out there say that the MOST IMPORTANT dose is at night, and some even say to only take it at night.

I mean, it won't necessarily hurt to split the dosage up, but it will have a better effect if taken all at once before bed.

I will admit that I don't know the EXACT science behind it, but it seems to be pretty common to take it all at once before bed.

To my knowledge the half time of tamoxifen and its metabolites are high enough to provide more than sufficient blood levels from a single dose per day. The peak concentration is reached after 5-6 hours of ingesting a single dose. After a 2-3 weeks, however, you will reach a "steady-state" due to continued cumulation of tamoxifen and then there won't be any significant fluctuations of plasma levels regardless of the intake-timing or /-splitting.

[TrnsferErr]

To my knowledge the half time of tamoxifen and its metabolites are high enough to provide more than sufficient blood levels from a single dose per day. The peak concentration is reached after 5-6 hours of ingesting a single dose. After a 2-3 weeks, however, you will reach a "steady-state" due to continued cumulation of tamoxifen and then there won't be any significant fluctuations of plasma levels regardless of the intake-timing or /-splitting.
GENIUS

[MyTMouse]

To my knowledge the half time of tamoxifen and its metabolites are high enough to provide more than sufficient blood levels from a single dose per day. The peak concentration is reached after 5-6 hours of ingesting a single dose. After a 2-3 weeks, however, you will reach a "steady-state" due to continued cumulation of tamoxifen and then there won't be any significant fluctuations of plasma levels regardless of the intake-timing or /-splitting.

that would explain why people use it one dose at night then. Because, you assume that the person sleeps at least 8 hours, so at about that 6 hour mark, your hormone levels would be beginning to peak out as well. So then they hit each other at about the same time. Good stuff. Thanks for the info.

[thebutcher01]

that makes perfect logical sense...thankx Dr. P!

[Fedaykin]

any updates?

[thebutcher01]

heres the long awaited update...completed the first week of PCT...40mg of nolva, 2 625 mg caps of ON trib, 75 mg of Rxt, and ZMA. keeping all of my gains...strenght is still going up...and sex drive is even a bit above normal it seems! my only complaint is that nolva tastes like absolute ****..so i have 2 mix it w/a bit of water to get it down. these next two weeks ill be going almost the same, except ill be using 20mg of nolva, and 50 mg of Rxt. im still eating a **** load..i seem to have lost a bit of my bloat..only becasue the waist of my pants fits a bit better..but other than that, still holding strong. keeping the support sup routine high, i got a new liver formula- w/milk thistle, dandilion root, and a bunch of other stuff, as well as RYR, and coq10. my calves grew noticably but its prob due to the fact that i working them for 10 hard sets, 2-3 times per week! i actually wore shorts last nite in my dorm!..but they still have a long way to go! lol! so ya, thats all for now..ill keep you all posted!

[MyTMouse]

nice. hope the gains stick around.

[thebutcher01]

ya thankx...i hope so too, it seems like they will...i have a really good PCT so i dont c any upcoming probs...but ill keep my fingers crossed. im on my last week of GVT...and i absolutely cant wait for the 3 wk. fall back peroid. GVT is one intense program, and i suggest anyone looking to improve, and for a challenge give it a try! its well worth it. the people who say you loose strenght on it must be doing something wrong, becasue i followed it to a 'T' and put 25lbs on every lift, and thats for 10 strict reps for 10 sets! and gained some size as well. down to 20mg of nolva for these next to weeks, will continue to post.

[ccrunner25]

I generally make up my own routines that I find best suit my own genetic make up and body style. But this GVT, would you do ALL body parts throughout the week split up with 4-5 days rest before reworking out that same muscle? Is it more for mass or for strength? For chest days would you use it for incline, decline, AND flat?

[thebutcher01]

GVT is pretty simple yet very effective. for the first 6 week block it is 10x10. you pick one (most bang for your buck) excercise-squat, bench press, etc. and pick a weight that you can do for ten good reps for ten sets. it will feel a bit easy in the beginng but once you get past the first few sets, it gets very intense. follow the split- back/chest, quads/hamstrings, off, shoulders/arms, off, repeat cycle. give it a try! its a very hypertrophy inducing program but strength gains r amazing as well! i added 25lbs to evey lift. you just have to make sure that you increase the load by 5lbs every work out.

[Fedaykin]

GVT is pretty simple yet very effective. for the first 6 week block it is 10x10. you pick one (most bang for your buck) excercise-squat, bench press, etc. and pick a weight that you can do for ten good reps for ten sets. it will feel a bit easy in the beginng but once you get past the first few sets, it gets very intense. follow the split- back/chest, quads/hamstrings, off, shoulders/arms, off, repeat cycle. give it a try! its a very hypertrophy inducing program but strength gains r amazing as well! i added 25lbs to evey lift. you just have to make sure that you increase the load by 5lbs every work out.

lol, Yet another thing that we differ in. I have been trying GVT the last couple of weeks and I'm going backwards!! Nothing but heavy and often for me from now on.

I'm glad the advice has helped you out though!

[thebutcher01]

weird...ya it musta just worked for my body type, now begins the 3 week fall back peroid! yay!

[thebutcher01]

PCT is going well....im taking the wknd off b4 i resume any weight training. then my training for the next 3 weeks will just be low volume/6-8 sets per body part, following a 2 on 1 off 2 on split. so for these 2 days that are off im just gonna do nothing but eat and sleep! last nite was the first nite that id been out in a little while, and i almost hooked up w/this chick at the bar! she was dancing all over me and wasnt even drunk really, so i bought her a drink which made her really happy, and then she danced some more and started making out w/me right there! lol! all the training must be paying off casue the whole time she kept feeling my arms and back! either that, or it was the massive amount of Tag Body Spray that i was wearing! lol! ill keep u all posted!

[TooMuchTooMuch]

Butcher, I'm amazed by what you've done the past 3 weeks. Astounded is a better term.
We've all heard that no human can drink a gallon of whole milk in 1 hour without vomitting....and how it's impossible to eat 8 saltines in under 1 minute. Well, buddy, you stumbled across a new one.
"Who can eat 4 whole wheat bagels with peanut butter as a meal, once a day for 3 weeks?" I know I couldn't!
Kudos for your courage.

[thebutcher01]

haha thankx man- some news to report...i seem to be holding on to my gains, my strenght is up still, i pushed a lot more on the bench press than i was used to last nite so i was pretty pleased with that. this is my 3rd and last wk. of PCT, im down to 20mg of nolva, and 1 cap of rebound xt. the trib and zma dosages are the same. my arms look a bit flat but that is becasue they never got any really hard specific work on the GVT, so after this 3 wk. recovery peroid its back to just regular high volume 2 on 1 off 2 on training. only one side to report- i am having a very hard time time getting hard! lol! this could be due to the fact, that becasue exams are coming up im only sleeping like 6-7 hrs per nite, rather than, 10-12 like i do on wknds, and the fact that i seemed to have come down w/whatever virus is going around could play a role in this. i can remember from my previous SD cycle when my PCT was only 6oxo, Rxt, ZMA, and trib, i seemed to not encountered this problem...i hope it goes away soon tho, cause it really sux not being able to get it up! but oh well, other than that, still going strong w/the support supps, and still eating big,- i went throught 24 packets of quaker oats in 1 wknd...and almost an entire loaf of multi grain bread yesterday! haha. ok i'll keep y'all posted!

[Fedaykin]

haha thankx man- some news to report...i seem to be holding on to my gains, my strenght is up still, i pushed a lot more on the bench press than i was used to last nite so i was pretty pleased with that. this is my 3rd and last wk. of PCT, im down to 20mg of nolva, and 1 cap of rebound xt. the trib and zma dosages are the same. my arms look a bit flat but that is becasue they never got any really hard specific work on the GVT, so after this 3 wk. recovery peroid its back to just regular high volume 2 on 1 off 2 on training. only one side to report- i am having a very hard time time getting hard! lol! this could be due to the fact, that becasue exams are coming up im only sleeping like 6-7 hrs per nite, rather than, 10-12 like i do on wknds, and the fact that i seemed to have come down w/whatever virus is going around could play a role in this. i can remember from my previous SD cycle when my PCT was only 6oxo, Rxt, ZMA, and trib, i seemed to not encountered this problem...i hope it goes away soon tho, cause it really sux not being able to get it up! but oh well, other than that, still going strong w/the support supps, and still eating big,- i went throught 24 packets of quaker oats in 1 wknd...and almost an entire loaf of multi grain bread yesterday! haha. ok i'll keep y'all posted!

eeek. Sounds like the M1T episode all over again!

BTW: He is very dedicated with his diet. I remember seeing him carb depleteing one time, lol. He had something like 1tbsp of pb for the whole days carbs and was spreading on his chicken around the time that he works out. The next day he had a family member bring him cupcakes before he went back to college, and he didn't even touch them! I was like wtf!? I'm glad I'm a powerlifter...

[uber_buff]

nice log

but a question
why dont you have a set of scales at home?

[thebutcher01]

well boys...a few things, i think my sickness is getting a bit better, even tho im still hacking like someone who has smoked for 50 yrs! but there is something going around. this is my 3rd and final wk. of PCT. 20mg of nolva, 1 cap of rebound xt, trib, and ZMA. still not being able 2 get it up for some reason....w/respect to the M1T episode, that was at the very beginning of my PCT- not even the 1st week was over, but this! this is the final week, and i went from normal to bad and i dont know why...but i hope this prob gets better...i'm even considering going 2 see the doc. about this. it could be something as simple as not adequate sleep these past 2 wks...becasue this is exam wk. and life is crazy...so 6-7 hrs. is prob not enough. but still that shouldn't be affecting me this badly. still eating big...im really getting into making sandwhiches w/bagels...like 2day for instance i ate 4 giant whole wheat bagel sandwhices- 1 w/ham, 1 w/turkey, 1 w/roast beef, and 1 w/pastrami. all hand cheese, veggis, letuce, and pickles...and if u want 2 try something good that is healthy i highly suggest this. theyre ****ing good! but seriously...even watching the nastiest, most freakiest porn movies doesnt even get me hard...im mean i had a girl practically hump me and make out w/me at a party this wknd and absolutely nothing happened! WTF...so after my PCT...im going to start supplementing w/6oxo- on 3 caps per day...because in the past as a NHA ive had good luck w/it...and i think it is a decent sup. plus i got quite a bit lying around so i might as well make use of it! thats all 4 now...ill keep y'all posted!

[Fedaykin]

well boys...a few things, i think my sickness is getting a bit better, even tho im still hacking like someone who has smoked for 50 yrs! but there is something going around. this is my 3rd and final wk. of PCT. 20mg of nolva, 1 cap of rebound xt, trib, and ZMA. still not being able 2 get it up for some reason....w/respect to the M1T episode, that was at the very beginning of my PCT- not even the 1st week was over, but this! this is the final week, and i went from normal to bad and i dont know why...but i hope this prob gets better...i'm even considering going 2 see the doc. about this. it could be something as simple as not adequate sleep these past 2 wks...becasue this is exam wk. and life is crazy...so 6-7 hrs. is prob not enough. but still that shouldn't be affecting me this badly. still eating big...im really getting into making sandwhiches w/bagels...like 2day for instance i ate 4 giant whole wheat bagel sandwhices- 1 w/ham, 1 w/turkey, 1 w/roast beef, and 1 w/pastrami. all hand cheese, veggis, letuce, and pickles...and if u want 2 try something good that is healthy i highly suggest this. theyre ****ing good! but seriously...even watching the nastiest, most freakiest porn movies doesnt even get me hard...im mean i had a girl practically hump me and make out w/me at a party this wknd and absolutely nothing happened! WTF...so after my PCT...im going to start supplementing w/6oxo- on 3 caps per day...because in the past as a NHA ive had good luck w/it...and i think it is a decent sup. plus i got quite a bit lying around so i might as well make use of it! thats all 4 now...ill keep y'all posted!

Maybe you are still shut down and just don't realize it. Nad size is not the only indicator of shut down(IE: you can have the nuts back in full swing, yet still not be producing test).

[thebutcher01]

i feel like abosolute ****. im not sure what type of illness ive caught but i have this terrible hacking cough and my whole body hurts...ive still been cramming in the egg whites, protein shakes, and bagel sandwhiches. im taking about one and half weeks off of creatine b4 i reload again. thank god i dont have 2 push myself hard for these next 2 weeks...i am still working out, but keeping the duration short and the volume low. i am on a week long vacation now, so i am going to sleep like crazy and just pile in the food. hopefully i will be better before i resume my high volume work outs, and hopefully ill be able 2 get it up, cause there are a few possibilities(women)that i think i could score w/when we get back from vacation.

[thebutcher01]

well im beginning to feel better....the cough is loosening up! im really enjoying this recovery period...i can almost feel my body rebuilding and what not. still not able to get it up...and bad...its like i have deca dick...IT JUST DOESNT WORK anymore! its very aggrivating too...im really not sure what to do...im hoping the 6oxo will help, if not ill prob need 2 see a doctor. ball size is the same tho...nothing changed there on cycle or during PCT...i'm just stumped becasue on cycle up to the 1st week of PCT, i wasnt shut down...then after that it just got worse until about 5-6 days later it just didnt work anymore...
:( i prob should go see a doctor about this? i have never encountered this on my other cycles...w/m1t i was shut down hard but came back after the PCT period...so any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[MyTMouse]

you might try taking your tribulus dosage up a little. as much as 4-5 grams per day. Horny Goat Weed can't hurt either. 1-2 gram(s) per day should do the trick there.

If this lasts even after adding more Trib./ Horny Goat Weed, I would suggest going to the doctor. This should not be happening to you.

[thebutcher01]

well a bit of good news...ive been eating and sleeping like crazy...my cold is just about gone. i am beginning 2 get the ability to get it up again...i got it up last nite and this after noon so i was pretty happy about that...MyTmouse...ill prob buy some horny goat weed...but since things all of a sudden seem 2 be getting better(hope it keeps improving)...ill start my 6oxo regimine...and keep the trib dosage the same...at least 4 now...been piling on the food 2 ....i ate 20 egg whites 2day...plus multi grain bread, fruit, and protein shakes w/milk...i still got a **** load more 2 eat tho! this is my last nite of PCT...last 20mg of nolva and last cap of RXT!

[thebutcher01]

well a bit of good news...ive been eating and sleeping like crazy...my cold is just about gone. i am beginning 2 get the ability to get it up again...i got it up last nite and this after noon so i was pretty happy about that...MyTmouse...ill prob buy some horny goat weed...but since things all of a sudden seem 2 be getting better(hope it keeps improving)...ill start my 6oxo regimine...and keep the trib dosage the same...at least 4 now...been piling on the food 2 ....i ate 20 egg whites 2day...plus multi grain bread, fruit, and protein shakes w/milk...i still got a **** load more 2 eat tho! this is my last nite of PCT...last 20mg of nolva and last cap of RXT!

[thebutcher01]

well everyone- i guess this is it...last dose of everything was just taken 2nite...and 2day. so im all done PCT...im gona start the 6oxo on monday as well as continue w/the trib and zma. now ill be able to go and have a couple of light drinks when i go out...nothing excessive by any means...but just once in awhile...and i wont have 2 worry about damaging my liver, and ill be able to score w/chicks now! lol! thankx 4 all the help and suggestions along the way...u guys know who u r...it was greatly appreciated!

[MyTMouse]

can you give us a final report? weight before cycle, weight after cycle, and weight after PCT.

Body fat %'s too if you have them. That'd be cool.

Glad you had a good cycle. sucks that you got sick during PCT.

Technically, I'd say you are still on PCT, being that you are still trying to get your natty test back up. hope that goes well for you.

[Fedaykin]

yeah, I don't really like the set time for PCT idea. Run it until you are recovered(which is what you are doing w/ 6-oxo.

I'm gunna shoot you an e-mail probably tonigh w/ my cycle... I think you'll like it! LOL.

EDIT: It's a recomp cycle. I'm weighing 235 right now and don't want to go any higher then 240-242(staying in my weight class is the idea).

I also would like to see you find a scale at least once to compare before you left to right now.

[thebutcher01]

ok...good tips and pointers guys..i guess this isnt the end so i will keep updating...the scale issue, i will do my best! i know it is pathetic that there isnt one around here...however, i have been told that i look roughly 10-12 lb heavier than i did at the start of this 2nd semeseter. one thing i can comment on with numbers- that is i put 25lbs on each lift. so my strenght went way up(last nite after not barbell benching for ages- i repped out w/225)...and is continuing to do so. still eating big...i up my complex carb intake to 80g per meal (not counting the carbs from fruit, or simple PWO carbs). still eating big...lots of egg white, protein, peanut butter, milk, fruit veggies, fruit, chilli, etc. i really haven't noticed a huge difference w/my "little problem" and i just started the 6oxo last nite at 4 caps, and i will be gradually tappering down to 3. hopefully at the end of the week i will see some improvements. if this doesnt get better w/in a few wks...i prob should go 2 the doctor...how embarrasing! lol! i wont be bulking for that much longer...on march 1st i will starting cutting...id like to do a log for that as well. Oh and yes...my bf% well, i have no callipers and tape-but it can't be super high cause i still have veins coming out of my biceps and forearms, so id estimate 12-13% or so-somewhere around there. so i guess thats about it 4 now!

[brn2lft]

Be careful with superdrol. I have a friend that is on his third cycle and has had fantastic results. Yet he has not went past 4 weeks or went over 2 pills. He hasnt had any sides and he thinks that it may be due to taking one pill in the morning and one midafternoon before he trains. He went from 185 to 210 in his first 2 cycles. He is also 32 yrs old and knows the proper way to come off. He has said several times that superdrol shouldnt be messed with if you are not at least 21. He also thinks that you shouldnt mess with it until your at least 25 yrs old. There are a couple 18 yr olds that train at the same gym as us, and one has developed some serious gyno. He was taking 4 pills a day and was in his 5th week. So kids stay away from it and us older guys need to play it smart and remember that the dosages seem a little extreme if you go over 2 pills. Just my opinion.