Paper: Low Carb and Performance

[Scivation]

I found this to be extremely enlightening. It demonstrates how the poor performance caused by lack of carbs in one's diet in recent studies could be simply because the studies did not give the body time to adapt to the shift in energy sources.

From a personal standpoint, I am known for my boundless energy and ridiculous training volume. I also eat very little to NO carbs and have not eaten them purposely for the last six to seven years (the last two years consistently). My lean mass gains have been superb in the past two years on this type of diet as well.

Take a look and please, discuss! This is for functional purposes, so "Oats are Yummy" might not be the greatest point to make. :) And to note, I DO NOT HATE CARBS! I think they DO have a place, but most people think they NEED them when in fact they do not. Especially those trying to lose fat or just stay lean and preserve/gain LBM.

http://scivation.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=580

[|ceman]

Linky please?

[AusPower]

Linky please?

X2

and Oats are yummy :( (Third day into Lean Mass Cut diet and having that carb meal was like heaven).

[Scivation]

Here is the actual file!

[muscleandgains]

I found this to be extremely enlightening. It demonstrates how the poor performance caused by lack of carbs in one's diet in recent studies could be simply because the studies did not give the body time to adapt to the shift in energy sources.

From a personal standpoint, I am known for my boundless energy and ridiculous training volume. I also eat very little to NO carbs and have not eaten them purposely for the last six to seven years (the last two years consistently). My lean mass gains have been superb in the past two years on this type of diet as well.

Take a look and please, discuss! This is for functional purposes, so "Oats are Yummy" might not be the greatest point to make. :) And to note, I DO NOT HATE CARBS! I think they DO have a place, but most people think they NEED them when in fact they do not. Especially those trying to lose fat or just stay lean and preserve/gain LBM.

http://scivation.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=580

Marc i have a simple question.I train with scivation principles , i am on the lyfecut diet and doing the lyfecut routine I drink extend like its water and things have been going well.My question is should i take in more fat cause i box/do kboxing and judo 3x a week and i also do 2x a week HIT for cardio and endurance.I feel awsome using no carbs but sometimes i do feel a bit weak ..what is your opinion?
Thank you.

[Scivation]

Marc i have a simple question.I train with scivation principles , i am on the lyfecut diet and doing the lyfecut routine I drink extend like its water and things have been going well.My question is should i take in more fat cause i box/do kboxing and judo 3x a week and i also do 2x a week HIT for cardio and endurance.I feel awsome using no carbs but sometimes i do feel a bit weak ..what is your opinion?
Thank you.

If you use low carbs long enough, you will NOT feel weak.

[muscleandgains]

If you use low carbs long enough, you will NOT feel weak.

even with all the other training i do?

[Scivation]

even with all the other training i do?

IMO, YES!

[Sporto1633]

If you use low carbs long enough, you will NOT feel weak.

In your opinion, would this depend on insulin sensitivity/resistance at all? As far as energy/performance goes on low carb?

Sporto

[Scivation]

In your opinion, would this depend on insulin sensitivity/resistance at all? As far as energy/performance goes on low carb?

Sporto

I really do not think it makes a difference. The bottom line is that the body WILL (or should in MOST cases) adapt.

But, the body is not a textbook and obviously, you CAN get shredded and perform well with carbs. I have done this in the past as well.

[Sporto1633]

I really do not think it makes a difference. The bottom line is that the body WILL (or should in MOST cases) adapt.

But, the body is not a textbook and obviously, you CAN get shredded and perform well with carbs. I have done this in the past as well.

I agree...

So maybe just the insulin sensitivity/resistance issue would probably only effect the time necessary for the body to adapt? For instance...take longer the more insulin sensitive you are?

Sporto

[Scivation]

I agree...

So maybe just the insulin sensitivity/resistance issue would probably only effect the time necessary for the body to adapt? For instance...take longer the more insulin sensitive you are?

Sporto

Perhaps. The only way to know is to try it!

When I first went low carb, I thought that I NEEDED carbs. I then did the 2 week break-in period and low and behold, I felt and performed amazingly and started dropping fat. I never looked back I felt so darn good and I am pretty darn insulin sensitive.

But then again, carbs are yummy as heck. However, I am on a mission for overall health and an IFBB pro card and will sacrifice oats for eggs. :)

[|ceman]

Admittedly, I didn't' read the entire paper word for word, but the conclusion seems to be somewhat contraindicative of what you are promoting. Not trying to flame here, just trying to understand if I am reading the study correctly.


Therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require constraint of most forms of physical labor or recreational activity, with the one caveat that anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics.

Seems to specifically call out weight training as a sport which performance is inhibited by a reduced carbohydrate diet.

Thoughts?

[Scivation]

Admittedly, I didn't' read the entire paper word for word, but the conclusion seems to be somewhat contraindicative of what you are promoting. Not trying to flame here, just trying to understand if I am reading the study correctly.



Seems to specifically call out weight training as a sport which performance is inhibited by a reduced carbohydrate diet.

Thoughts?

How is that? I tend to read beyond the study, and the fact that the body adapts is something I stand behind as well as the anecdotal findings I have experienced.

We do not deplete enough glycogen weight training for it to even matter. Your liver will make more than enough for weight training.

Please read the entire paper. :)

And then look at my progress pics. :)

[|ceman]

How is that? I tend to read beyond the study, and the fact that the body adapts is something I stand behind as well as the anecdotal findings I have experienced.

We do not deplete enough glycogen weight training for it to even matter. Your liver will make more than enough for weight training.

Please read the entire paper. :)

And then look at my progress pics. :)

I'll read the whole paper later today once I get some more time. I just quickly perused it and found the author's summary conclusions a bit puzzling.

And I am familiar with your progress pics. I'm an occasional lurker in your contest prep thread and have read the articles you wrote for bb.com. Impressive progress without a doubt. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

I'm sure you'll agree that each person's body will respond a little different to a fixed set of stimuli (whether that be training, diet, supplementation, etc). Not knocking your progress, just saying that your experiences with that diet may or may not be typical.

I've played a little with ketogenic diets (did a TKD where the only carbs (other than fibrous) were taken immediately post workout). This was for about 2 months. It helped me shed fat, but my strength and energy in the gym suffered. When I put carbs back into my diet (more complex, clean sources), my strength and energy levels went through the roof.

[Lando33]

How is that? I tend to read beyond the study, and the fact that the body adapts is something I stand behind as well as the anecdotal findings I have experienced.

We do not deplete enough glycogen weight training for it to even matter. Your liver will make more than enough for weight training.

Please read the entire paper. :)

And then look at my progress pics. :)

I think at first we look at weight training as this incredibly grueling endurance sport where we totally deplete our bodies to the point where they cannot take any more. That is not the truth. The fact of the matter is we train in short bursts. We lift, we rest, we lift, we rest, we lift, we rest....and on and on. We need far less carbs to perform for that simple reason.

[Scivation]

I've played a little with ketogenic diets (did a TKD where the only carbs (other than fibrous) were taken immediately post workout). This was for about 2 months. It helped me shed fat, but my strength and energy in the gym suffered. When I put carbs back into my diet (more complex, clean sources), my strength and energy levels went through the roof.

That is not low carb. By taking in these carbs, BOOM, you were knocking yourself out of the fat-for-fuel zone!

[Scivation]

I think at first we look at weight training as this incredibly grueling endurance sport where we totally deplete our bodies to the point where they cannot take any more. That is not the truth. The fact of the matter is we train in short bursts. We lift, we rest, we lift, we rest, we lift, we rest....and on and on. We need far less carbs to perform for that simple reason.

True dat gangsta.

[Thug9]

I found this to be extremely enlightening. It demonstrates how the poor performance caused by lack of carbs in one's diet in recent studies could be simply because the studies did not give the body time to adapt to the shift in energy sources.

From a personal standpoint, I am known for my boundless energy and ridiculous training volume. I also eat very little to NO carbs and have not eaten them purposely for the last six to seven years (the last two years consistently). My lean mass gains have been superb in the past two years on this type of diet as well.

Take a look and please, discuss! This is for functional purposes, so "Oats are Yummy" might not be the greatest point to make. :) And to note, I DO NOT HATE CARBS! I think they DO have a place, but most people think they NEED them when in fact they do not. Especially those trying to lose fat or just stay lean and preserve/gain LBM.

http://scivation.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=580



how much carbs do you eat a day??

[whatnow5]

If you use low carbs long enough, you will NOT feel weak.
For sure, all of my lifts are as high or higher than ever since switching to the cha diet. I've had so much energy in the past 4 weeks of the cha diet it is amazing.


That is not low carb. By taking in these carbs, BOOM, you were knocking yourself out of the fat-for-fuel zone!
And making yourself crave carbs, moody, and pass out on the sofa!

[Bodybuilder8806]

I've been looking over the C.H.A diet and wouldn't the veggie days be like carbs that would knock you out of ketosis? Are they more for nurtients that the vegetables provide or to create a calories deficit? Just a little confused on how the no fat days are different from carb loading days on diets such as the Anabolic Diet, etc. Im interested it doing the diet and just wanted to know if small tweaks could make it more effective. Thanks

[Rippinit]

i have personally found that carbohydrate is what makes me lethargic-when you think about it they provide that insulin spike, whether complex or simple, provided by a trough. Fat doesnt spike insulin directly and neither does protein, therefore once one is "fat adapted", nothing but steady energy can be expected.

[Thug9]

i have personally found that carbohydrate is what makes me lethargic-when you think about it they provide that insulin spike, whether complex or simple, provided by a trough. Fat doesnt spike insulin directly and neither does protein, therefore once one is "fat adapted", nothing but steady energy can be expected.

is it possible to build muscle that way??

[Adrenaline690]

is it possible to build muscle that way??

yes you can actually, some people actually don't preform as best as they can with carbs because it makes them tired.

Marc is a perfect example of someone who can make amazing progress without carbs.

[Thug9]

yes you can actually, some people actually don't preform as best as they can with carbs because it makes them tired.

Marc is a perfect example of someone who can make amazing progress without carbs.

thanx man. have you achived it and gained strength..

[Adrenaline690]

thanx man. have you achived it and gained strength..

I personally haven't tried it, but theres alot of people here that have.

But speaking from experience for me, I love carbs, but they don't really have any effect at all for my gains, they sometimes just give me more energy, but they also make me lethargic actually after I eat alot of them.

IMO you do not need carbs to build muscle

[Thug9]

I personally haven't tried it, but theres alot of people here that have.

But speaking from experience for me, I love carbs, but they don't really have any effect at all for my gains, they sometimes just give me more energy, but they also make me lethargic actually after I eat alot of them.

IMO you do not need carbs to build muscle

thanx for your time. that completly goes against the grain. ppl or so called experts alwayz tell you to eat carbs.

my cousin actuallly told me that he barely eats carbs and he is kinda of a monster and doesnt even take creatine.

[whatnow5]

thanx for your time. that completly goes against the grain. ppl or so called experts alwayz tell you to eat carbs.

my cousin actuallly told me that he barely eats carbs and he is kinda of a monster and doesnt even take creatine.

Since switching from the cut diet to the cha diet I have noticed more lean mass than fat loss even though my goal was fat loss. I am starting a cha bulk whenever derek sends me the email.

[Thug9]

Since switching from the cut diet to the cha diet I have noticed more lean mass than fat loss even though my goal was fat loss. I am starting a cha bulk whenever derek sends me the email.

I been on the low carb or even zero (low meaning 15g to 25) with great successs at cutting but i alwayz added carbs for lifting weights. that's cool man, Ima try it out. good luck with your goals. peace, and yeah, mark told me the samething. peace