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View Full Version : My upper back article......what do you think


amusclehead
09-06-2002, 09:50 PM
Heh, after reading some of the sh!t that's spewed out in some of those articles i've read from bb.com, i thought i'd give it a shot and write an article since i was bored. So, what do you guys think? Btw, english isn't my 1st language, so be kind :)

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A lot of articles I’ve read start off and spend time just pissing around. If you want that, go read something else, or a good book, I’m here to try to give you some help on how to get some big lats going on.

Visual Illusions

With just an average program, anybody can attain a nice v-shape. The key: trim waistline. Obviously, the upper back is quite massive compared to your waist(well, it should be), so it’s just a matter of cutting down on the waist and adding a bit of size up-top. That’s 1 way to do it, but, myself, I don’t like visual illusions. Sure, you look nice, but go take a chest measurement and come out with 42’’. For some, that’s fine, me, I need a nice 50’’ measurement, and there’s only 1 way short of insane genetics to do that-> good, solid, hardcore training.

Exercises

I really hate it when people give a routine and say ‘do X reps for X sets and it’ll work’. Everybody is different, there is no magic routine that will add on the mass. What works for 1 may not work for another. Now, that being said, I prefer to keep my reps in the 4-6range. Others may want to try the 6-8range. It all depends. I would not, however, recommend going over 8reps for strength and size training. Some people do like 10-12 because they claim that higher reps are better for cutting- that’s total BS. Stick with 4-6, or 6-8, whichever you prefer. Of course, never go over 60minutes of intense training. A natural body achieves maximum results when it’s energy is spent on intense lifts, not many mediocre lifts. If you’re training balls-out hardcore, there should be NO need to go over 50-60minutes. If you are, well then, you aren’t training at full intensity, and thus aren’t going to achieve maximum results.

For number of sets, i believe that 9-11 is the perfect range. there's no need to blast the back with 16sets, as long as the previous sets are balls-out hardcore, giving it all you have with proper form

In terms of rest between sets, it all depends on the person. I like taking a tempo of lift, 2minute break, lift, 3 1/2minute break, lift, 3minute break, lift, 2 minute break…etc…..
Find a tempo that suites you and stick with it. Although try to not rest more than 4minutes between sets, and not less than 1 minute, in my opinion.

Now onto the actual exercises J
To hit the lats, there are a multitude of exercises, however, from experience, certain 1s seem to work better than others. Let’s start off:

Wide-grip pull-ups: The MEAT of your upper back training program. There is NO substitute for these. I guarantee you, with 100% proper form, anybody can grow massive lats through this exercise. However, the key is 100% proper form. I’ve seen people only go down ¾ of the way, other’s do only half the movement. MAXIMUM results are obtained when you get a nice stretch and make certain your arms are fully extended. The eccentric part of the movement is more important than the actual ‘pulling up’

Bent-over rows(BB): Another great exercises to help widen the upper back. Remember to not jerk the weight up and to use a slow and controlled motion. Bring the weight toward your belly button, NOT towards your chest

‘Regular’(shoulder-width) pull-ups: A great exercise to put in the middle of your lat day. Not necessary, but it doesn’t hurt to do them. Not quite as effective as a wide-grip pull-ups, but still pretty darn good.

Close-grip pull-ups: Not a favorite of mine, but some people seem to enjoy doing them. I would recommend doing them with a palms-facing each other grip, so the movement isn’t uncomfortable or jerky.

Cable rows: A great way to finish off an upper back day. Make sure to get a good stretch

Lat pulldowns: These are NOT a substitute for pull-ups. Pull-ups are essential. However, these are a good compliment which can help build your pull-up strength. The eccentric part of the movement is again more important than the pulling down of the weight.

There are tons of other exercises, like 1-arm rows, bent-over db rows, etc.. that will hit the upper lats, however these I find are the most effective

But I can’t do pull-ups with my own bodyweight
Well, that does suck. But trust me, pull-ups are essential. There are some good ways to work on this, and here are some suggestions
1) Work with lat pulldowns. Make certain to go through the movement slowly, and over time you’ll build up strength
2) Do assisted pull-ups. Have somebody stand underneath you. Then pullup as much as possible. When you can’t do anymore, have them give you a boost. Then hold it as long as you can, and slowly come down and repeat.

Eventually you should build up enough strength to be able to do your own bodyweight ‘easily’.

Biceps&Back together?
I know some people train these 2 groups together, and myself, I don’t like that idea. I believe each muscle needs it own day so you can focus all your attention on it, not split it between 2 groups. Now, most people give the reason that they train them together because when doing upper back exercises, the biceps are involved. True, but not eliminate bicep involvement? When both biceps and lats work together, the lats are not taking as much stress as they possible can. By removing biceps, to a certain degree, the lats are forced to work harder, thus they get stronger and bigger.

So, how do we do that? Simple- use a thumbless grip. Try it. Go do a pull-up(or bent-over row) and grip the bar using a thumbless grip(so instead of your thumb wrapping around the bar, it is ontop of it). Kinda odd and takes a few reps to get used to, but you immediately see the difference. The biceps aren’t going as much work, meaning the lats are taking over. I experienced great gains from this simple tip. Try it and see. Now that the biceps aren’t doing as much work and the lats are taking the brunt of it, you have no need to combine said day :)

Some general tips

1) Pull-ups are awesome. There are no substitutes for them… do them!

2) Weighted pull-ups are FAR superior to pull-ups just using your own bodyweight. It’s a whole different ballgame when you add weight, even if it’s just 5pds. I recommend that you try to do 8,8,8,7reps of pull-ups(or just 8,8,8reps) before you add on 5pds. There’s no real practical reason to do more than 8reps for size or strength. Add weight and start experiencing new gains!

3)50-rep pull-ups. Everybody has heard of this idea. In my opinion, as a shock routine done every once in a blue moon, it’s an okay idea. However, to do them all the time- waste of time. There is no magic number for lats. For some people, that might be overtraining. Stick with 3sets of weighed pull-ups and 1 set of non-weighted(when you can do weighted pull-ups) and you’ll see far better gains than trying for 50reps. Hell, why not do 50rep benches? Because-> muscle gains come from QUALITY lifting, NOT QUANTITY.

4) When doing the movements, don’t jerk your body and try to use momentum. Lats do NO respond to momentum. They respond to a nice, slow(reasonably so) pace. Take a weight that is heavy, BUT that you can control.

5) Focus on the ‘hanging’ part of the movements. I.e., when pulling up, make certain to focus on the ‘down’ part of the lift. Get a good stretch in. I’ve found that getting a nice stretch on the lats is a key role in developing them. Bent-over rows? Same thing. After you’ve pulled the weight towards you, slowly lower it, focusing on stretching the lats

6)Wide-grip pull-ups are, imo, the best overall exercise for your lats. However, what does wide mean? Well, it’s different for every person. Experiment with different widths and find what is comfortable to you. If I go too wide, I get bad elbow pain. Pain is never a good sign. Make sure to go a comfortable distance.

7) As stated before, use a thumbless grip. It takes the biceps out of the equation(to a certain degree) and allows the lats to take more stress

8) Final tip that may help some people. When doing pull-ups(or lat pulldowns), try visualizing arching your back. This should pull your chest forward and may allow you to pull-up a tad more

9) Okay, i lied, this is the final tip. If you can't touch the pull-up bar to your chest, don't feel bad. You have to have a certain bone structure to be able to do that. I can't do it, and i havn't suffered at all. Just make sure to go as much as you can, and make certain it's atleast slightly below your chin
Well, that’s pretty much it. Go heavy and make certain to maintain proper form at all time and you’ll have some big wings in no time. :)
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sooo, what ya think :)

streakfront
09-06-2002, 09:58 PM
I bet I stopped reading it beofre u did.

amusclehead
09-06-2002, 10:01 PM
^^^^^^^
This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click [here]

amusclehead
09-06-2002, 10:46 PM
:)

stedyedy
09-06-2002, 10:50 PM
pretty good article although i havent read that many articles on the back it seems pretty informative. i never use to train the back becuase i didnt know how to but this should give it a kick start.

user87745477315471972481
09-06-2002, 11:17 PM
good work, buddy

seanconnery
09-06-2002, 11:18 PM
Good work, buddy.
EDIT: WTF Gmav? LOL, I swear I did NOT copy what you said.

user87745477315471972481
09-06-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by seanconnery
Good work, buddy.
EDIT: WTF Gmav? LOL, I swear I did NOT copy what you said.

LOL! :confused:

seanconnery
09-06-2002, 11:24 PM
I read his post, and then replied 'good work, buddy', and when I came back out to the thread I saw that you had posted the same damned thing before I did, lol. :D

user87745477315471972481
09-06-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by seanconnery
I read his post, and then replied 'good work, buddy', and when I came back out to the thread I saw that you had posted the same damned thing before I did, lol. :D


hahah yea I realized that , I was just surprised and I found it funny. All good though! :D

BTW amusclehead, just curious what is your first language?

amusclehead
09-06-2002, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Gmav



hahah yea I realized that , I was just surprised and I found it funny. All good though! :D

BTW amusclehead, just curious what is your first language?

french. well, not "true" french, quebec french :) (and we all know how quebec ppl. like to butcher it, haha). Born and raised in montreal, then moved here(alberta).

seanconnery
09-06-2002, 11:48 PM
Quebecois?!

Heh, do they call you 'ti Musclehead? :D

amusclehead
09-06-2002, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by seanconnery
Quebecois?!

Heh, do they call you 'ti Musclehead? :D


hehe :) ;)

Crazee_786
09-07-2002, 02:59 AM
xellent article bro, keep it up!

iron_curtis
09-07-2002, 03:25 AM
i just want to rip into this article (4-8reps???, dont do bi's and latts 2gether???)... but i wont, sum good points, yor right everyone is different.

Jack-MA
09-07-2002, 03:31 AM
Good article - just to be picky though, you've substituted the word 'one' for the number 1 in places.

Great work, though!

SUPERM4N
09-07-2002, 08:01 AM
Nice article...but the 5 pounds weighted pull ups would make no such difference...i do 25 pound weighted pull ups and find them quite easy...

streakfront
09-07-2002, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by SUPERM4N
Nice article...but the 5 pounds weighted pull ups would make no such difference...i do 25 pound weighted pull ups and find them quite easy...

I do 155 pound pull ups to be honest.

streakfront
09-07-2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by streakfront


I do 155 pound pull ups to be honest.

I mean 15 pound pull ups. 6 sets of 8 reps.

Holla112
09-07-2002, 09:37 AM
musclehead, nice article, jus looked up bent over rows, lots of newbs don't know that' ur supposed to pull towards ur stomach and not towards ur chest like those flex magazinses show, gj and nice article
ontario 4 life, hehe :P

healthy n_fit
09-07-2002, 10:22 AM
Awesome article amusclehead. Damn good job!

Mingo
09-07-2002, 10:29 AM
Not bad at all man, are you a writer for teenbodybuilding.com?

Ulyanov
09-07-2002, 11:06 AM
Good job. I don't agree with everything you say, but that's to be expected. I'm going to have to try weighted chinups one day, I can do about 10 unweighted.

amusclehead
09-07-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by SUPERM4N
Nice article...but the 5 pounds weighted pull ups would make no such difference...i do 25 pound weighted pull ups and find them quite easy...

:eek: Well that's something to be proud of then. Hell, I had to slowly work up from 5->10->15->20->25 pds to be able to do them.

My body found a HUGE difference between 0 and 5pds added on, but then again, I make sure to perform each rep slowly and really focus on the stretch

heymanwassup
09-08-2002, 11:37 PM
very good job.

reFLEX
09-12-2002, 09:37 PM
I had 'forgotten' about pull ups (some how or other) because I had been focusing on deadlifts and then I read this article and since I stopped doing deadlifts (thanks musclehead for the reality check) and I did pullups (wide grip, thumbless) and seated rows for one workout and I can actually see a difference in the size of my lats. It's awesome. Pullups kick ass.

MsFit
09-18-2002, 05:33 PM
Good read, amusclehead :)
MsFit

p0w3rlift3r
09-22-2002, 11:49 PM
you have something agianst T-bar rows or something? i only train my lats on the same plane as the bench press and my lats are growing like crazy and i'm really not focusing on them i do them 5x10 or 5x5 every set is a battle, i train them 2 times a week

Pro
10-18-2002, 12:03 PM
When you do weighted pullups where do you put the extra weight?

d12
11-01-2002, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by Pro
When you do weighted pullups where do you put the extra weight?

Im new to wide grip pull ups but when i get to weighted ones im going to use a backpack and fill it with weights

T-Bar
02-26-2003, 11:52 AM
T-bar rows are the best back exercise. You're right though, pull-ups are very effective.

Pirub88
03-02-2003, 12:57 PM
Amusclehead:

Ever think of a nautalis lat pullover?

I'm not going to say your exersizes are worthles, but ever one of them the biceps will fail before the latissimus dorsi muscles. The biceps are the weakpart in any back exersize, and if you are able to isolate them with a pullover type motion in the beginning of the workout, it would most likely give a huge benefit overall stimulation of the lats.

Athlete84
03-09-2003, 12:51 PM
yeah, the Nautillus Lat pullover is great.
But anyway, I don't like machines, moving my bodyweight is much more fullfiling for me.
Never use anything to substitute pull-ups, or you're a wuss.
I just wanted to say a thing about the article,
you say that to take the biceps of the equation you can use a thumbless grip, well, it may seem that way, but the only thing it does is weaken your grip and endanger your forearm, wrist and hand. I've known a wise guy who always did back exercises thumbless, he opened both wrists and couldn't workout for 2 weeks, now he always has to protect them and he's forbidden to do exercises thumbless!
My advice is to those who think their biceps are getting more of it than the back, concentrate on the low part of it, where it's all back and no arms, the first impulse is generated by your back, then your arms will help. there is other thing but i dont really like it, it is called pre-exhaust: before you do pull-ups, do some bb curls! this will weaken your arm and therefore your back will work more.