Ultimate Beginners Guide

[PG]

General Over View of Steroid Use/Abuse
AAS are used to enhance our genetics, or even use to improve normal life. They DO NOT change a persons genetics, as well as they DO NOT cause severe agression (roid rage). More often then not the users with agression while on steroids have already had agression/temper problems in the past before even touching these substances. The uses of these substances stupidly will result in problems; thats all im going to say so if you want to see what these problems are then don't read on. Use in moderate doses, and keep everything in check. Have scheduled appointments with your doctor for check ups / tests.

Please understand that you are injecting and outside source of hormones, your body is going to naturally react to it based on its content.

The difference between use and abuse is normally in the persons goals. There is NO need to abuse these substances unless you are becoming an NPC/IFBB bodybuilder. So keep your doses moderate.

***MOST IMPORTANTLY, TESTOSTERONE HAS TO BE IN EVERY CYCLE YOU DO.***

Choosing a Substance(s) to Use for your First Cycle
Listed below are AAS that you can use for your first time:
Testosterone (Test Cypionate or Test Enanthate)
Deca-Duabolin
Dianabol (dbol)
Essentially you can use a lot of different substance in your first cycle. But these are the best ones to go with. You CAN NOT use Tren Acetate, Tren Enanthate, or Anadrol in your first cycle. These are simply to harsh.

Do Not, i repeat, DO NOT use Sustanon250 for your first cycle. You have to inject it everyother day for it to stay stable in your system.

PCT (Post Cycle Therapy)
This is when you are coming off of your cycle. Injecting outside (exogenous) hormones will shut down your natural testosterone production. The objective of PCT, is to kick start / boost your natural test production back to normal levels to maintain the gains you have worked so hard to achieve. You can not use over the counter test boosters for this. It must be one or more of the substances listed below:
HCG
Nolvadex
Clomid
Toremifene
Nolvadex is one of the most commonly used PCT substances

Clomid is a lesser common substance used due to its side effects that are present in almost all of its users. Acne, depression, etc.

HCG, is more commonly used when a users cycle contains many substances or substances that can almost completely shut your natural testosterone down. (tren, deca)

Toremifene is rather new, in some studies it has shown to be just as good (if not better) as Nolvadex with less side effects.

Sample Cycles
Test Only:
Test Enanthate or Test Cypionate @ 500mg every week. (week 1-12)
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

Pros: You get to find out how you react to one substance alone. So you will know whats going to happen when you have testosterone in your later cycles. Increased sex drive. Sense of well being. Happy.

Cons: Achy joints can become a problem. Possible hair lose if prone to male pattern baldness.


Test + Dbol:
Test E or Test C @ 500mg every week (week 1-12)
Dbol @ 30mg everyday, 30 min before workout (weeks 1-4)
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

Pros: Increased sex drive. Cycle is "kickstarted" with Dbol. More gains then test only. Great strength increase noticeable within the first 2 weeks.

Cons: Achy joints can become a problem due to the rapid increase in strength. Possible hair lose if prone to male pattern baldness. Higher chances of Gyno / Estrogenic side effects.


Test + Deca:
Test E or Test C @ 500mg every week (weeks 1-12)
Deca @ 300-400mg every week (weeks 1-10)
HCG @ 250IU every other day (week 12 only)
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

Pros: More gains then test only. Ligaments / joints will be more protected due to increased collagen levels.

Cons: Possible temporary Erectile Dysfunction ("deca dick"). More water Gains (bloat). Possible depression.

Injections
Don't be scared if your injection spot hurts the next day. You either injected to fast or the person/company that made it use a high concentration of chemicals to keep it stable. None of which will hurt you in any way. The pain normally subsides within 2-3 days after the injection.

The point when you worry is when the site is red and warm to the touch. Then you might have an infection, which you'll need antibiotics to take care of. This is why i say to have scheduled appointments with your doctor ever month.

For any of your cycles with long estered substances like Testosterone Enanthate, Testosterone Cypionate, Deca-Durabolin, EQ, Tren Enanthate, etc; You need to split your weekly dosage into 2 injections. Either Sunday/Wednesday or Monday/Thursday. Reason being this will keep the hormone at a high concentration in the blood stream throughout the cycle, resulting int better gains.

Ways to Control the Side Effects
Prone to hair loss: Finasteride(propecia)
Prone to gyno / extreme bloat: Adex (anastrozole) or Letrozole
Acne: Tanning, B5, wash twice daily, (accutane as a LAST resort)

Diet
Don't be a pussy and learn to eat. If you can't eat the amount of Calories you need in whole food, supplement in Weight Gainer. Find one with low sugar carbs and more complex. On's Serious Mass (http://www.******************/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=OP-7142) <~~~ best one i have found and cheapest price. Slowly increase your calories over time to lessen the chance of fat gains. Don't go from 3000cals a day up to 5000 in one day lol thats just "special" of you. lol Slowly increase it by 300-500 calories a week. So week 1 is 3000 a day, week 2 is 3300 a day, etc and so on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GenePool's contribution 12/15/2008

So you are making your decision to do steroids. Yes it is easy to see the benefits of them. You get bigger, you get stronger.But I doubt you have posed these questions to yourself. I want you to think long and hard about each one of them and if you either cant answer yes to all of them or are not comfortable with the answers then you are NOT ready to do steroids. So here they are in no order of importance.

1) Is your diet in good working order? Do you know what foods to eat, how many calories you need, when to eat?

2)Is your training program in order? Have you got the proper exercises for growth and the right number of sets?

3) Steroids are a Schedule III drug and possesion can land you in jail for a while, are you willing to risk buying them and face possible jail time?

4) Do you realize steroids arent Miracle Grow and a single cycle isnt going to give you the results you are hoping for?

5) Are you willing to give up drinking and eating all garbage food while on cycle?

6) Are you willing to accept all possible health consequences? Possible cardiac damage from low HDL, Possible liver damage, possible mental problems, potential to lose natural test production, gynocomastia, acne?

7) Are you willing to accept possible social consequences, alienation of family/friends, social stigma of being a steroid user?

8) Are you willing to learn the proper way to run a cycle not just listening to some schmuck in the gym who says "take this", what PCT is and how to do it properly?

9) Are you willing to stick yourself with a needle multiple times per week?


Think about these before you ask about cycling. If you can't honestly answer yes, stay the hell away from steroids

[tryn2byolkt]

Nice post PG! It would make a good sticky...

... and so colorful too :)

[PG]

Nice post PG! It would make a good sticky...

... and so colorful too :)lol best thing to do is keep it bumped, cause we know that no noobs will ever look at the stickies. But then they see this as thread and say "OMGZ they must tell all the secrets of DBOL ONLY" lol

Maybe some of them will learn something

[T--]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. It will help out a lot of new people and hopefully they read it before making threads such as:

Afraid of needles, DBOL only Cycle???

I had another question, since all you guys in this thread know what your talking about and I'll get serious answers. When the time does come for me to do gear, (few years) should I expect to lose hair? I'm probably going to run Test E for 10 weeks and maybe DBOL 1-4 to just start the cycle, and then of course probably Nov for PCT. I already have a "receding" hairline and I've pretty much had it forever. Its just where my hair starts. With only 1 cycle of TEST should I worry about the possibility of losing hair or should I be fine? THanks a lot guys.

[True Force]

nice post man =]

now we just need to get people to read it... lol

[thecut]

Good post, should keep bumped, no one looks at the stickies, i like your use of colors to draw the noobz attentions.

[dschaff31]

thanks

[B-baldy]

Excellent post. Clear and to the point.

[DIESALan]

I like your choice in colors. Ill rep you with my 1 power.

Edit: Must spread some first. :(

[blkbelt42]

good stuff man.

[Rawp0wer1O1]

"Dont be a pussy and learn to eat"

lol

[michiganfan88]

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to PG again.

[Musclefever]

great post reps on recharge
should be a sticky

[PG]

bump

[My_Friend]

In before sticky

[PG]

In before sticky

hahaha i wish it was stickied but never will be.

Mods no love me lol

[browner30]

great post man.

[Drumkid20]

Aww I like the pink and apricot colors! Did you do that just for the sake of including Bladens favorite colors???

:P

[puddingbody]

Good post but you should start the PCT two weeks after the last injection of a long ester test like Test E not at week 13.

[PG]

1 week after to play it safe. Half life of Test Enanthate is 10.5 days. if you wait 2 weeks (14 days) there are almost 4 days problems can arise. Also for Test Cypionate. Its half life is 12days, still 2 days.

Nothing much but its better for the first time users to play it safe, then be sorry. Once the user develops his knowledge of his own body; how prone to gyno he is, bloat, etc; then he have choose to go 2 week before PCT.

[aguy0523]

1 week after to play it safe. Half life of Test Enanthate is 10.5 days. if you wait 2 weeks (14 days) there are almost 4 days problems can arise. Also for Test Cypionate. Its half life is 12days, still 2 days.

Nothing much but its better for the first time users to play it safe, then be sorry. Once the user develops his knowledge of his own body; how prone to gyno he is, bloat, etc; then he have choose to go 2 week before PCT.

x2.
i like that idea. makes more sense.

[mic3fan]

BIG BUMP ...... awsome post pg

[Moose46]

bump

[GETTINITDONE]

Great post bro...

(you've been repped)

[Johnn 34]

To bad the mods couldn't make it so everyone under a 100 post have to read this before they could post in here. Like when you try to post this would pop up. Of coarse this includes me. It would make it alot easier for me to do my research and learn without having to go through all the simple ? that are asked and allready awnserd in the stickys. I still can't believe there are people out there putting stuff in there bodys without researching for months maybe even years.

Good post, reps and thanks to all the vets who help out here it makes it alot easier for noobs like me to make and educated des. and thanks for putting up with alot of stupid ?

[iWr3k]

AWESOME post! mad props!!!

[lastblondBB]

Color and indentations wow. Im now going to rep you with my massive 5 rep power.

My favorite suggestion for first cycle is test and dbol. never be afraid to use some HCG for you first cycle no matter how many compounds.

[carlwolfslair]

great post hope some of the newbies read it

[PG]

bump...


thanks guys ;)

[user9438904904]

what a cute post...so colorful...i think living with a girl has ****ed with ur head brother...:)

good info...too bad the kids are gonna read it and then ask if winny is a good fat loss drug because their mom wont let them do cardio.

[topcornr]

great post bro! i agree making this a sticky will just mean it will never be seen again. we all gota just bump it when we see it fall. idk if im considered a noob anymore but i think this wouldve helped me alot when i started researching like 8 months ago...so to all you noobs READ and stop being so F%cking naive

[PG]

what a cute post...so colorful...i think living with a girl has ****ed with ur head brother...:)

good info...too bad the kids are gonna read it and then ask if winny is a good fat loss drug because their mom wont let them do cardio.hahaha the only thing that has f*cked my head, is her crotch ;)

[ARguy]

Needs PCT dosage and timing to be the Ultimate Beginners Guide. IMO

[PG]

Needs PCT dosage and timing to be the Ultimate Beginners Guide. IMO

Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

its all there. even a noob would know that each value is what you take daily for a week. Come on now. And when you take it during the day doesn't matter

[redvision]

What a nice colorful post PG ;) Sticky? let's just hope newbs will read it...

Red

[topcornr]

Bump!!

[YadieIronz]

I need pt.2 :) :)
bump

[iWr3k]

bump!

[Steve0178]

Bump for a great post!

[Billlabong089]

PG, excellent post, thanks

[nc maniac]

Definitely appreciate you taking the time to put this together. I think everyone is right about not reading it in the Sticky's. I've cut and asted into word document for future reference. Thanks again.

[My_Friend]

Not only did I paste it in a word document, I printed it out and hung it on the wall next to my signed poster of Jay Cutler.

[PG]

Not only did I paste it in a word document, I printed it out and hung it on the wall next to my signed poster of Jay Cutler.

seriously, lol?

[GeeNo]

Good post, however I strongly disagree with recommending nandrolone to first time users. Too little experience, too many potential adverse side effects.

[PG]

Good post, however I strongly disagree with recommending nandrolone to first time users. Too little experience, too many potential adverse side effects.

true but thats why i recommended 300mg. The adverse effects can be controlled with a lil more research (caber or bromo + letro or adex)

[GeeNo]

true but thats why i recommended 300mg. The adverse effects can be controlled with a lil more research (caber or bromo + letro or adex)

Then again we're adding more chemicals, more complications, more side effects, more things that could go wrong, etc.

Personally I feel to test the waters, 350 - 500 mg of enanthate depending on the persons weight in respect to their height and BF%. The only other anabolic necessary is a proper diet!

[PG]

Then again we're adding more chemicals, more complications, more side effects, more things that could go wrong, etc.

Personally I feel to test the waters, 350 - 500 mg of enanthate depending on the persons weight in respect to their height and BF%. The only other anabolic necessary is a proper diet!agreed, even though i don't know of any side effects present from Adex and say Caber

[GeeNo]

agreed, even though i don't know of any side effects present from Adex and say Caber

Well, we're talking first time users here. Too much arimidex or too much cabergoline have their own side effects. Especially in a world where the general consensus seems to be that more is better. Just an advocate of keeping it as absolutely simple as possible for the first cycle! Adding one thing at a time to judge the effectiveness and side-effect:benefit ratio of the individual user.

Not bashing you or picking on you or anything by the way! Just an opinion!

[PG]

Well, we're talking first time users here. Too much arimidex or too much cabergoline have their own side effects. Especially in a world where the general consensus seems to be that more is better. Just an advocate of keeping it as absolutely simple as possible for the first cycle! Adding one thing at a time to judge the effectiveness and side-effect:benefit ratio of the individual user.

Not bashing you or picking on you or anything by the way! Just an opinion!
i know bro, not bashing you either. thats why i agreed with you ;)

::kisses:: no homo lol

[nc maniac]

Well, we're talking first time users here. Too much arimidex or too much cabergoline have their own side effects. Especially in a world where the general consensus seems to be that more is better. Just an advocate of keeping it as absolutely simple as possible for the first cycle! Adding one thing at a time to judge the effectiveness and side-effect:benefit ratio of the individual user.

Not bashing you or picking on you or anything by the way! Just an opinion!

So no nandrolone and sticking to one thing at a time to judge effectiveness. But is it o.k. to just use Dbol by itself on your first cycle? I've been reading alot of literature and most people are recommending test with Dbol as a kick-off for first cycle. What's your thoughts?

[PG]

So no nandrolone and sticking to one thing at a time to judge effectiveness. But is it o.k. to just use Dbol by itself on your first cycle? I've been reading alot of literature and most people are recommending test with Dbol as a kick-off for first cycle. What's your thoughts?

Try test alone first. You'll like it, and so will the lady, or women lol.

2nd cycle use dbol + test

;)

[le.goon]

This made it to the third page...bump.

Gave a learner like me good information.

[mikerenouf]

very nice

[<^>]

bump for good info :)

[MUSCULARMAYOR]

bumpity bump bump
great post bro. thanks for takin the time to help so many noobs, makes it easier on the vets

[Jaydigs1122]

I would have incorporated some fusha color in there PG.


:) What were you thinking? :)

[0merta]

More bump

My first post will be a bump since it's post like these that are helping me determine how, when and with what to use on my first cycle. Thanks for the info.

[iWr3k]

bump again!!!

[warakawa]

hi, just wondering what's the average amount of time should a person wait between each cycle?

[planetfitness]

this post says it all, in a nutshell. Great stuff !

[mikerenouf]

hi, just wondering what's the average amount of time should a person wait between each cycle?

general rule of thumb is time on = time off, no more than 3 cycles in a year imo

[warakawa]

general rule of thumb is time on = time off, no more than 3 cycles in a year imo

wow, that's a lot of steroids. i was thinking about once a year, just work out through out the year to keep those you gain during the cycle.

[PG]

wow, that's a lot of steroids. i was thinking about once a year, just work out through out the year to keep those you gain during the cycle.

that mentality will probably change the minute you start a cycle. the Changes are crazy.

[warakawa]

that mentality will probably change the minute you start a cycle. the Changes are crazy.

im asian, there's no need for me to go that BIG. as asian girls usually detest muscular guys.
i just want to get to 80 kg, which is just another 5 kg away. but im having trouble gain that 5 kg.

so one cycle should be enough for me?

[PG]

im asian, there's no need for me to go that BIG. as asian girls usually detest muscular guys.
i just want to get to 80 kg, which is just another 5 kg away. but im having trouble gain that 5 kg.

so one cycle should be enough for me?cycle of testosterone only, for 10 weeks, will give you about 15lbs keepable after PCT. So 5kgs for sure.

you just need to train right, eat right, etc.

[warakawa]

thanx PG

[benjamin0]

Awesome thread. Nice basic info for those needing to know some beginner info.

[planetfitness]

PG, very valuable advice, thx
What u tink, i m 30, 178m, 90kg. Just started on my 2nd week of sus250 and deca 150. Intend to go up sus500, deca 300.

My prb here, have history of high blood pressure. on Nifidepine 1 tab a day now. I dont feel dizzy etc when i train. Shd i continue my juice for another 8-10 weeks?

[PG]

PG, very valuable advice, thx
What u tink, i m 30, 178m, 90kg. Just started on my 2nd week of sus250 and deca 150. Intend to go up sus500, deca 300.

My prb here, have history of high blood pressure. on Nifidepine 1 tab a day now. I dont feel dizzy etc when i train. Shd i continue my juice for another 8-10 weeks?

not to sure how AAS would affect Nifidepine so i would say talk to your doctor. Other then that you just have to monitor your BP like you should be anyway, And note any big increases in BP level, etc.

Shouldn't be that bad though.

[planetfitness]

Thx PG. No way I can tell my doctor, she will SIT on me and out to my folks!

Just wonder if those sus and deca will harden the arteries, which may only manifest in higher blood pressure a few mths down the road.

But hey, apprec ur advice !

Would like to check,u think cod oil / milk thistle a waste when u r on sus/ deca? Ok to do hydroxycut when on juice, coz i believe that is a fair amt of stubborn fats round my waist.. abs are here, but not that visible.

[planetfitness]

hi PG, understand u have wrote N times abt PCT.

Ok to just stick to Navaldex during PCT, or during cycle is gyno occurs?
I read PCT management like 40-40-20-20. What does this mean? 40mg/ week, or per day for 1 week, and that duration = 4 weeks?

[PG]

Bump :D

[ARguy]

Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

its all there. even a noob would know that each value is what you take daily for a week. Come on now. And when you take it during the day doesn't matter


Opps missed that! Didnt see that line in your post - too much computer screen reading - I guess. Great post - shoud be a sticky!

[mic3fan]

bump

[chris_mcfarlane]

can we stack test e, dbol, and deca?

[PG]

can we stack test e, dbol, and deca?

not for a first time cycle, that would be something to consider for a 3rd cycle

Do:

Test + dbol (first cycle)
Test + Deca (second cycle)
Test + Deca + Dbol (third cycle)




Or even



Test Only (first cycle)
Test + dbol (second cycle)
Test + Deca (thirdcycle)
Test + Deca + Dbol (fourth cycle)


Either way you look at it keep your cycles simple so that later one you don't require high amounts of substances.

[MrCanadian_old132]

I know I'm only 18, I'm trying to read as much information over the next couple years before I try steroids myself. Everytime I try to ask questions I am negged. I really appreciate this post.

This is well worth being stickied

[bbattag]

good info.

Thanks

[onlyonce07]

thx i have been debating my first cycle for a while now i wanted test +dbol but everyone keeps telling me sust and tren for a first time but now i think ive made up my mind thanks PG

[chris_mcfarlane]

bumb

[PG]

thx i have been debating my first cycle for a while now i wanted test +dbol but everyone keeps telling me sust and tren for a first time but now i think ive made up my mind thanks PG

sustanon and tren would be a HORRIBLE way to go for your first cycle. Recovery would be a bitch

[onlyonce07]

sustanon and tren would be a HORRIBLE way to go for your first cycle. Recovery would be a bitch

word thats what i thought but everyone likes to think that they know whats the best like i said i wanted to run test e and dbol this thread just made it an eaiser choice but whats better test e or p i know p u have a lot more injections but whats the real diff?

[T--]

Just ordered some ON SMass. :) Thank god I don't need to worry about all my cals and protein now. I will still have a really strict diet but it was getting a little ridiculous. Thanks for the link on the first post PG!!! reps when I can.

*BTW*
I used you as a referral lol, didn't know if you got something for it.:)

[planetfitness]

hi all.
If one had started on Sus/ Deca on the first cycle

For subsequent cycle, ok to go back to the basics - Test E only .. or TestE + Deca?

[benjamin0]

word thats what i thought but everyone likes to think that they know whats the best like i said i wanted to run test e and dbol this thread just made it an eaiser choice but whats better test e or p i know p u have a lot more injections but whats the real diff?

kinda been wondering the same...

[thecut]

bump

[tryn2byolkt]

im asian, there's no need for me to go that BIG. as asian girls usually detest muscular guys.

The asian girls out here LOVE big guys!! I love them too..

I dated an girl that was asian and hawaiian. Every night i tried to break her back out because she was so tiny, it was great :)




... and im bumping this thread also.

[Nitrix]

For a first cycle(test-e only), do you have to use Clomid? I have read many cycles where guys only use Nolva. If a first cycle is supposed to be simple(only one steroid) to see how your body handles the substance, why use 2 pct products in your first cycle? You won't know how your body handles the Nolva by itself.

[PG]

For a first cycle(test-e only), do you have to use Clomid? I have read many cycles where guys only use Nolva. If a first cycle is supposed to be simple(only one steroid) to see how your body handles the substance, why use 2 pct products in your first cycle? You won't know how your body handles the Nolva by itself.

you can do nolva alone and be fine. Its just that Clomid works faster at kickstarting the natural test. And then you finish is off with nolva, because nolva has less side, and take a lil bit long to kick up test. The difference isn't considerable, but there is a difference

[Nitrix]

Thanks. Also, I don't want to bloat up with water. Arimidex .5 mg eod is the fix for that right?

[PG]

Thanks. Also, I don't want to bloat up with water. Arimidex .5 mg eod is the fix for that right?

;)

Some will tell you that it hinders gains. All it really does is keep your water gains less. So you are getting less gains but thats because you aren't putting on excessive water weight like other users that don't run an AI.

[Simon85]

Thanks. Also, I don't want to bloat up with water. Arimidex .5 mg eod is the fix for that right?

A safe bet will be to use arimidex only when you're cutting/preparing for a show. If you're bulking, use it only when you feel the gyno coming.

[Nitrix]

Thanks guys. Is .5 mg of Arimidex eod right, or is it 1 mg eod? I don't want to retain water at all. I don't want to look like a balloon.

[alphaJ]

Thanks guys. Is .5 mg of Arimidex eod right, or is it 1 mg eod? I don't want to retain water at all. I don't want to look like a balloon.

Start as low as possible and see what it does then up it if your still having problems,cause too much can slow gains.

[Simon85]

Start as low as possible and see what it does then up it if your still having problems,cause too much can slow gains.

I started at .25mg eod and it wasnt effective. So I up the dose to .5mg eod and it work well for my cycle(test/deca/dbol)

[PG]

I started at .25mg eod and it wasnt effective. So I up the dose to .5mg eod and it work well for my cycle(test/deca/dbol)
exactly ;)

i'd rather play it safe, then be sorry and possibly have to spend 3000-5000 on gyno removal surgery

[Nitrix]

thanks guys.

[Richie_Awesome]

Awesome read. Hopefully this will be around in a few years when I try something :p

[PG]

bump for the n00bs

[Takuth]

bump

[sawball]

He wants to run 14 weesk of
Test E & EQ @200 x 2 a week= 400mg each
PCT will be Nolva or Clomid.

[PG]

He wants to run 14 weesk of
Test E & EQ @200 x 2 a week= 400mg each
PCT will be Nolva or Clomid.

up test to 500, ;) should make a good cycle

test E weeks 1-14
EQ weeks 1-12

thats the best your cycle can get. EQ should be run 16 weeks or more, but you can't do that for a first timer. The cycle will make him eat like crazy and gain like crazy if he sticks to it

[ibcritn1]

WHY no sticky??? LOL STICKY INC?

[PG]

WHY no sticky??? LOL STICKY INC?

if it gets stickied then no one will look at it lol

[Genghis-Khan]

How do you know after you are done with your PCT that your body is producing test again? Do you just have to see your doctor and have a test test done?

Also how long before your workouts should you inject, or does it matter?

[datamon]

if it gets stickied then no one will look at it lol
nice!

[PG]

How do you know after you are done with your PCT that your body is producing test again? Do you just have to see your doctor and have a test test done?

Also how long before your workouts should you inject, or does it matter?
yes, test it at the doctors, hence you should visit them lol

injecting before or after didn't really have any physical effects on me, But i generally stick to either 2-3 hours before, or after.

[Richie_Awesome]

Sticky.

[faisji]

Someone suggested to me that if I run my 1st cycle then I take nolva 20 mg every day for the cycle and carry on 3 weeks after end of cycle of test e at week 10.
Clomid I have been told is not necessary for the frist cycle though helpful.
The cycle proposed is:
test e 500 mg weekly week 1-10
nolva 20 mg ed week 1 - 13

[PG]

Someone suggested to me that if I run my 1st cycle then I take nolva 20 mg every day for the cycle and carry on 3 weeks after end of cycle of test e at week 10.
Clomid I have been told is not necessary for the frist cycle though helpful.
The cycle proposed is:
test e 500 mg weekly week 1-10
nolva 20 mg ed week 1 - 13

you don't need nolva in there unless you are prone to gyno. Just run test e alone and if gyno (itchy nipples and/or lumps) starts then use nolva otherwise leave it for the end. Your cycle should look like:

Test E (1-12) not 10weeks trust me go the extra 2 weeks
Nolva (13-17) 40/20/20/20/20

[affliction_]

I'm going do the test/deca cycle but I want to add some liquid (injectable) dbol with it. Could you tell me how I should go about this?

[PG]

I'm going do the test/deca cycle but I want to add some liquid (injectable) dbol with it. Could you tell me how I should go about this?

this your first cycle?

[RCyea]

PG, will winny make me "ripped"

[Lightning3]

not on its own. Winny isn't a very good compound but if you run it with test and do a lean bulk or cut, yeah you'll get ripped

[affliction_]

this your first cycle?

It's my 2nd.

[PG]

not on its own. Winny isn't a very good compound but if you run it with test and do a lean bulk or cut, yeah you'll get rippedlol there is a reason he is so far into the red

It's my 2nd.stick to either

Test (12weeks) + Deca (10weeks)

-OR-

Test (12weeks) + Dbol (6weeks)


I would probably encourage to use two injectables first, then try the injectable + oral in a different cycle. From there you can start mixing 2 injectables with an oral for your cycles

[affliction_]

stick to either

Test (12weeks) + Deca (10weeks)

-OR-

Test (12weeks) + Dbol (6weeks)


I would probably encourage to use two injectables first, then try the injectable + oral in a different cycle. From there you can start mixing 2 injectables with an oral for your cycles

Thanks for the reply. I'll go with the Test and Deca then. I was wondering, in your OP it says to use HCG, Nolva and Clomid. Is it necessary to use all three?

Also, I've got some HGH. How would you say I should go about using this with my cycle?

Just one final question. Would the Test, Deca and liquid Dbol be ok for my 3rd cycle?

[Lightning3]

With a test/deca cycle I would suggest start using HCG 6 weeks into your cycle and run it up to pct but stop before pct since HCG is surpressive. Additionally I believe you would be fine with either nolva or clomid. The HGH needs to be run for atleast 6 months to see benefit so you can't neccessarily encorporate it into this cycle per say.

[stephenmcgee87]

Alot of my friends are asking questions about juice and I am getting sick of trying to explain some basics to them, they will be instantly directed here in future, good post man

[affliction_]

With a test/deca cycle I would suggest start using HCG 6 weeks into your cycle and run it up to pct but stop before pct since HCG is surpressive. Additionally I believe you would be fine with either nolva or clomid. The HGH needs to be run for atleast 6 months to see benefit so you can't neccessarily encorporate it into this cycle per say.

So my cycle would be as follows?

Test Cyp - 500mg e/wk (wk 1-12)
Deca - 300mg e/wk (wk 1-10)
HCG - 250IU eod (wk 6-12)
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (wk 13-17)

I already have the HGH so I want to use it before it expires. I guess I could use it to keep my body fat down while bulking up.

[lanceippolito_delete011408]

So my cycle would be as follows?

Test Cyp - 500mg e/wk (wk 1-12)
Deca - 300mg e/wk (wk 1-10)
HCG - 250IU eod (wk 6-12)
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (wk 13-17)

I already have the HGH so I want to use it before it expires. I guess I could use it to keep my body fat down while bulking up.

looks great, dont think ull need the hcg though, and run the gh... its great

[PG]

looks great, dont think ull need the hcg though, and run the gh... its great

agreed, i hope you have a 6month supply cause thats the only way to run it, 6months or more at a time

you can either do Gain Kane's protocol (5ius @ 3x a week) Or you can just take (5ius Post Workouts)

[lanceippolito_delete011408]

or my new pussy way of 2 ius PW. hey im getin good results

[P1ngPutts]

repped

[mikethrelfall]

Thanks for this post!!!!!!
i wish i would of come on here and read everything before just beleiving what people told me in the gym then maybe i wudnt havin gone on two cycles of test only and deca only both without pct.
Only through not knowin absolutly anything about steroids.
every 1 should b made 2 reads this

[Rack n Ruin]

bump.

[PG]

bump.

was just about to bump this lol, thanks

[Rack n Ruin]

was just about to bump this lol, thanks

no problem, nice to see a quality thread. now watch it get shunted for "d-bol only"

[affliction_]

Is Tamoxifen the same thing as Nolva and if it is would I use the same dosages as I would with Nolva?

[PG]

Is Tamoxifen the same thing as Nolva and if it is would I use the same dosages as I would with Nolva?

yes everyone says 40/40/20/20. i personally believe 40/20/20/20/20 is better

you use the same amount of pills so why not go the extra week. all you really need is 20mg of nolva to recover

[affliction_]

Thanks for the reply.

Also, I've only got enough test e @ 500mg each week for 10 weeks. Would I be able to use test c for the final 2 weeks or would that be a bad idea?

[PG]

Thanks for the reply.

Also, I've only got enough test e @ 500mg each week for 10 weeks. Would I be able to use test c for the final 2 weeks or would that be a bad idea?

stick with one, you could use Prop that last two weeks because its alot faster acting then cyp.

just stick to one bro

[affliction_]

Thanks for the advice it's much appreciated :)

I think I might have to do a 10 week course instead of twelve because I'm not too sure weather I can get Prop.

[affliction_]

I'm doing a lot of research, reading and searching old threads on steroids, SERMs, AI's etc etc but I thought I might as well post my newb questions that I need clarifying in this thread for other beginners to read.

There might be quite a few obvious questions that I might need answering so please bear with me :o

Proviron is an AI isn't it?
Is hCG an AI?

[KnockoutLB_old]

why is EQ and test not a recommended first cycle?

[Sixt33n]

why is EQ and test not a recommended first cycle?

First cycle gains are usually high, so test only is recommend to "feel out" how you react to the drug, while still yeilding great results.

[PG]

First cycle gains are usually high, so test only is recommend to "feel out" how you react to the drug, while still yeilding great results.

x2

plus EQ is only good for raised appetite, RBC count, etc. Nothing in the mass department

[nick.MBB]

nicely organized. good job
I used sust for my first cycle worked great.

[tryn2byolkt]

This thread should seriously be a sticky by now..... JMO though.

[stevensa1]

You say Nolva and Toremfene is the same, and you can use Nolva for pct, therefore would it be alright to just use torem for pct for a

Test E 1-10 (250 twice a week) * have enough for the 10 weeks
DBol 1-4 (5mg every 4hrs) *I heard that Dbol is better taken like this
if wrong, please what is the right way

[stevensa1]

And is it necessary to get your bf down to about 10%

[PG]

You say Nolva and Toremfene is the same, and you can use Nolva for pct, therefore would it be alright to just use torem for pct for a

Test E 1-10 (250 twice a week) * have enough for the 10 weeks
DBol 1-4 (5mg every 4hrs) *I heard that Dbol is better taken like this
if wrong, please what is the right way

And is it necessary to get your bf down to about 10%

you can take it as PCT yes. Its not common because its a bit pricey. And 10% is just a good base to stay at. if you got more then say 15" you might not be injection deep enough into the muscle. which can lead to a slow absorption rate

[stevensa1]

you can take it as PCT yes. Its not common because its a bit pricey. And 10% is just a good base to stay at. if you got more then say 15" you might not be injection deep enough into the muscle. which can lead to a slow absorption rate

Good to know, I was going to start this sunday/monday, but now I am gonna hold for for another month. I have lots of torem left from SD last spring.

So, for torem, would u do it 120/90/60/60

[stevensa1]

How about the Dbol, I have 20mg tabs, I have asked on other boards and got mixed results. Some say 20mg 2xday, Some say 5mg every 4hrs. What is you guys take on this.


I also was wondering about using clen during pct.

[Emmortal]

How about the Dbol, I have 20mg tabs, I have asked on other boards and got mixed results. Some say 20mg 2xday, Some say 5mg every 4hrs. What is you guys take on this.


I also was wondering about using clen during pct.

Dbol has a short half life so taking it evenly spaced through the day is better, some guys, depending on their pills take an hour before workout, personally I just space them out throughout the day.

Skip using clen in PCT. It's highly catabolic and will shred you but it's not indiscriminate between fat or muscle so you need to be on cycle to counteract that. HGH and T3 for PCT is a much better combo, a 2 month run of that will cut you down nicely if you are in the sub 13% BF range.

[Emmortal]

First cycle gains are usually high, so test only is recommend to "feel out" how you react to the drug, while still yeilding great results.

The first cycle I did was a test e and deca cycle. I wouldn't really recommend that, but I knew what I was getting into. Still to this day, test cyp + deca + dbol (or drol) kickstart + tapering down with prop at the end is probably the most solid cycle I've ever run.

First timers should stick to one compound, it worked out for me, but you really want to see how you react to one compound and then start adding others in. So maybe a test e/c cycle first time, second time add deca, third time, add an oral kickstart etc.

Also, if you are thinking about running deca, make sure you run your test at a higher dosage than the deca or you could get deca dick which will royally piss the girlfriend/wife off, hell even masturbation is difficult =)

[PG]

bump for the day ;)

[lost1700]

i am a newb, not planning on taking any steroids. But, this was a good read, very informative

[edrock80]

looking to get cut. Took some sh*t off my friends hands, not sure how to use. I'm about 5f10in 210lb with about 10%bf and I've used sh*t a few times before. I don't want to over or under use so if anyone has some insight please help. so hear goes!!

200mcg Clen 120ml
400mg/ml 10ml 2X enant, cyp mix
100mg/ml tren
5000mc/ml tren
400mg/ml 10ml bolden

[PG]

looking to get cut. Took some sh*t off my friends hands, not sure how to use. I'm about 5f10in 210lb with about 10%bf and I've used sh*t a few times before. I don't want to over or under use so if anyone has some insight please help. so hear goes!!

200mcg Clen 120ml
400mg/ml 10ml 2X enant, cyp mix
100mg/ml tren
5000mc/ml tren
400mg/ml 10ml boldenwhy do you have 2 trens?

also what is the mix of test? how much is Enan and how much is Cyp?

[edrock80]

why do you have 2 trens?

also what is the mix of test? how much is Enan and how much is Cyp?

I just took what my friend had. He had two different types one is 5000 mc/ml and the other is 100mg/ml, I think it is half the strength. The test is 50 50 enan and cyp.

[PG]

8 week cycle
test @ 400mg a week (weeks 1-10)
tren @ 100mg eod (weeks 1-8)
bold @ 400mg a week (weeks 1-8)
Clen @ 200-240mcg (weeks 1-8)



the best kind of test to cut with though is test prop

[PG]

I just took what my friend had. He had two different types one is 5000 mc/ml and the other is 100mg/ml, I think it is half the strength. The test is 50 50 enan and cyp.

never heard of mc/ml form what i know thats gotta be fake.

[edrock80]

never heard of mc/ml form what i know thats gotta be fake.


O sorry I ment 5000 mcg/ml on the second tren. I think 5000mcg/ml is just just half 100mg/ml right.

[bdyer]

looking to start very first cycle here in a few weeks, and thought this would be the best place to post it for review/help

Test E @ 500mg every week (week 1-12)
Dbol @ 30mg everyday, 30 min before workout for for weeks 1-4
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)

(above cycle taken from OP)

Any thoughts? Is this acceptable for a first cycle? What about liver support?
Any and all help is greatly appreciate.

[PG]

O sorry I ment 5000 mcg/ml on the second tren. I think 5000mcg/ml is just just half 100mg/ml right.no if thats what it says then 5000mcg is equal to only 5mg/ml

looking to start very first cycle here in a few weeks, and thought this would be the best place to post it for review/help

Test E @ 500mg every week (week 1-12)
Dbol @ 30mg everyday, 30 min before workout for for weeks 1-4
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)

(above cycle taken from OP)

Any thoughts? Is this acceptable for a first cycle? What about liver support?
Any and all help is greatly appreciate.you shouldn't need liver support. But if you want to play it safe grab either:

N.A.C.
LIV52

either one will do the job.

[WantToBeStudly]

O.K., I hate to beat a dead horse to death, but I'm a little unclear on something someone asked earlier....and yes I did do a search. However, I'm unclear as to why exactly one could or should not use test & winny for their very first cycle? I'm new to this and very receptive to your information and appreciate it very much, but I was just curious to the answer of this as I had thought test & winny might make a decent first cycle...? But if I should absolutely only stick to test and either dbol or deca as you suggest, that's absolutely fine, and that's what I'd do. I want to do a lean bulk but have never used any PH/PS/AAS. So I know you guys say a first time user should do remarkably if everything else is done properly.

If the case is still that a beginner should not take winny, what then can someone (a beginner) take to cut with during cycle? A typical fat-burner? I'm not too keen about the jitters that come from these. Or perhaps an unmethylated oral winstrol (i.e. winztrol or furazadrol)?

Again, i'm sorry if this has been asked a zillion times.

[PG]

O.K., I hate to beat a dead horse to death, but I'm a little unclear on something someone asked earlier....and yes I did do a search. However, I'm unclear as to why exactly one could or should not use test & winny for their very first cycle? I'm new to this and very receptive to your information and appreciate it very much, but I was just curious to the answer of this as I had thought test & winny might make a decent first cycle...? But if I should absolutely only stick to test and either dbol or deca as you suggest, that's absolutely fine, and that's what I'd do. I want to do a lean bulk but have never used any PH/PS/AAS. So I know you guys say a first time user should do remarkably if everything else is done properly.

If the case is still that a beginner should not take winny, what then can someone (a beginner) take to cut with during cycle? A typical fat-burner? I'm not too keen about the jitters that come from these. Or perhaps an unmethylated oral winstrol (i.e. winztrol or furazadrol)?

Again, i'm sorry if this has been asked a zillion times.

winny doesn't do anything for a beginners purpose. A beginner is looking to gain muscle mass. As far as using winny at the end its personally pointless.

A beginner shouldn't use steroids to cut, you can do that fine with nutrition. But if you were to it would be Test P & Tren A.

Test P is only ok if you can stand injecting every other day. And Tren A is NEVER ok for a first or even second cycle.

[WantToBeStudly]

winny doesn't do anything for a beginners purpose. A beginner is looking to gain muscle mass. As far as using winny at the end its personally pointless.

A beginner shouldn't use steroids to cut, you can do that fine with nutrition. But if you were to it would be Test P & Tren A.

Test P is only ok if you can stand injecting every other day. And Tren A is NEVER ok for a first or even second cycle.

Hey thx for replying. The nutrition thing is something that confuses the crap out of me.

OK, if I - a beginner - were to start a 12-week bulking cycle of only test (or perhaps test plus either DBOL or DECA) yet I wanted to get the most out of it, so I would increase my calories over time from say a normal 3000k/day to say 6000k/day. I'm the type who would likely achieve this calorie surplus by weight-gainer....that's just me.....seems more convenient that way.

But my question is, HOW should I then incorporate cardio? If the whole purpose of adding calories by a weight-gainer was to increase my mass, then wouldn't doing cardio cancel out the calorie surplus I had achieved by weight gainer? So I guess what I'm asking is if I'm going to sit there daily and increase my caloric intake to 5 or 6000/k or so per day, why even do the cardio if that just put's to waste the extra calories I had taken in during the day?

I'm not sure how this works....does someone who is on cycle only do fasted cardio in the morning to ASSURE they only burn fat, not hard-earned muscle? Or is taking in BCAA's or perhaps just Leucine before and after a cardio session ASSURE that only fat is attacked and muscle is spared? Is it normal for bodybuilders to only do cardio fasted in the morning before eating so that they can bulk but keep it as lean as possible? Or is it normal practice to just eat like a pig and eat whatever you want while on cycle so your calories are increased, and just not worry about fat-loss efforts until Post-cycle time comes?

I know this sounds like such silly questions but for some reason this is confusing to me.

[PG]

Hey thx for replying. The nutrition thing is something that confuses the crap out of me.

OK, if I - a beginner - were to start a 12-week bulking cycle of only test (or perhaps test plus either DBOL or DECA) yet I wanted to get the most out of it, so I would increase my calories over time from say a normal 3000k/day to say 6000k/day. I'm the type who would likely achieve this calorie surplus by weight-gainer....that's just me.....seems more convenient that way.

But my question is, HOW should I then incorporate cardio? If the whole purpose of adding calories by a weight-gainer was to increase my mass, then wouldn't doing cardio cancel out the calorie surplus I had achieved by weight gainer? So I guess what I'm asking is if I'm going to sit there daily and increase my caloric intake to 5 or 6000/k or so per day, why even do the cardio if that just put's to waste the extra calories I had taken in during the day?

I'm not sure how this works....does someone who is on cycle only do fasted cardio in the morning to ASSURE they only burn fat, not hard-earned muscle? Or is taking in BCAA's or perhaps just Leucine before and after a cardio session ASSURE that only fat is attacked and muscle is spared? Is it normal for bodybuilders to only do cardio fasted in the morning before eating so that they can bulk but keep it as lean as possible? Or is it normal practice to just eat like a pig and eat whatever you want while on cycle so your calories are increased, and just not worry about fat-loss efforts until PCT time comes?

I know this sounds like such silly questions but for some reason this is confusing to me.

i serving of a Weight Gainer is 1000-2000 calories. You aren't going to burn that off with some cardio. Cardio while bulking is to keep your repertory system fit. Your body has to adapt to the new pounds that you are putting on and the ability to get them blood.

simply do it for 30min 3x a week, nice a simple

[WantToBeStudly]

i serving of a Weight Gainer is 1000-2000 calories. You aren't going to burn that off with some cardio. Cardio while bulking is to keep your repertory system fit. Your body has to adapt to the new pounds that you are putting on and the ability to get them blood.

simply do it for 30min 3x a week, nice a simple

^ So is this what the pro's do? (not that i'm anywhere near being pro by light-years)

Let me just point out that the reason I ask is because I'm 27yrs/5'9'' and 178 lbs. So I have somewhat of a gut that is not very visually appealing. Not a beer-belly gut, but one I would like to get rid of none-the-less. So say I begin a 12 week cycle of test/deca. Once I begin that cycle, what is it that I can be doing to reduce or eliminate the belly I have? I'm not fat of course, pretty ht/wt proportionate, but if there is nothing else in this life that I would like to do, is see this gut just go away. Which is why I asked earlier about the winstrol, be it real or the over-the-counter unmethyl kind. But if you advise against that, what can I be doing to flatten my stomach out while also taking a caloric surplus which is absolutely imperative for a cycle? Sorry for so many questions.

[NCK MIZ]

^ So is this what the pro's do? (not that i'm anywhere near being pro by light-years)

Let me just point out that the reason I ask is because I'm 27yrs/5'9'' and 178 lbs. So I have somewhat of a gut that is not very visually appealing. Not a beer-belly gut, but one I would like to get rid of none-the-less. So say I begin a 12 week cycle of test/deca. Once I begin that cycle, what is it that I can be doing to reduce or eliminate the belly I have? I'm not fat of course, pretty ht/wt proportionate, but if there is nothing else in this life that I would like to do, is see this gut just go away. Which is why I asked earlier about the winstrol, be it real or the over-the-counter unmethyl kind. But if you advise against that, what can I be doing to flatten my stomach out while also taking a caloric surplus which is absolutely imperative for a cycle? Sorry for so many questions.


You can't expect both. If I were you I would cut for 8-12 weeks and then you will be ready to give it your all while on cycle. But that's just me.

[PG]

^ So is this what the pro's do? (not that i'm anywhere near being pro by light-years)

Let me just point out that the reason I ask is because I'm 27yrs/5'9'' and 178 lbs. So I have somewhat of a gut that is not very visually appealing. Not a beer-belly gut, but one I would like to get rid of none-the-less. So say I begin a 12 week cycle of test/deca. Once I begin that cycle, what is it that I can be doing to reduce or eliminate the belly I have? I'm not fat of course, pretty ht/wt proportionate, but if there is nothing else in this life that I would like to do, is see this gut just go away. Which is why I asked earlier about the winstrol, be it real or the over-the-counter unmethyl kind. But if you advise against that, what can I be doing to flatten my stomach out while also taking a caloric surplus which is absolutely imperative for a cycle? Sorry for so many questions.

winny doesn't make you cut, and only works if you are already below 10% bodyfat.

You can't bulk and cut at the same time. You have to choose one. Either do the cycle and bulk. Or change your diet and cut down.

your choice. Normally your BF will drop when you start a cycle, and will continue to get less as long as your diet is in check.

[WantToBeStudly]

You can't expect both. If I were you I would cut for 8-12 weeks and then you will be ready to give it your all while on cycle. But that's just me.

^ But why can't I just go ahead and start the cycle, and do a cal surplus as recommended, but in the mornings before I eat anything whatsoever can't I just do like an hour of cardio since scientifically I will only be burning straight fat? Maybe I could sip BCAAS during morning fasted cardio so that I can be positive my body will only be cutting into fat. Then once that's done and overwith, I can resume consuming a caloric surplus for my cycle....? No?

[PG]

^ But why can't I just go ahead and start the cycle, and do a cal surplus as recommended, but in the mornings before I eat anything whatsoever can't I just do like an hour of cardio since scientifically I will only be burning straight fat? Maybe I could sip BCAAS during morning fasted cardio so that I can be positive my body will only be cutting into fat. Then once that's done and overwith, I can resume consuming a caloric surplus for my cycle....? No?

doing that even on AAS is still going to be catabolic. meaning eat away at your muscles. Sounds good on paper, but doesn't work in life.

bulk or cut choose one.

[WantToBeStudly]

doing that even on AAS is still going to be catabolic. meaning eat away at your muscles. Sounds good on paper, but doesn't work in life.

bulk or cut choose one.

Sorrrrrryyyyy for beating a dead horse.....but can't I take Leviathan Reloaded while on cycle to burn fat (adipose)? E/C stack? Or is taking ANY fat-burner while on cycle Stupid/Pointless?

Or perhaps while on test/deca, I could take oral trenadrol or propadrol, the over-the-counter unmethylated kind. Would that help?

[PG]

Sorrrrrryyyyy for beating a dead horse.....but can't I take Leviathan Reloaded while on cycle to burn fat (adipose)?

ok once AGAIN.

either bulk or cut.

just because we use the word bulk, doesn't mean go get fat. No based on your nutrition (diet), you can stay really lean while adding on plenty of muscle mass.

First things first get your diet in check. And this isn't the place to ask about your diet

[WantToBeStudly]

OK so I think I'll go with a 12-week TEST/DBOL stack, and take the unmethylated oral Propadrol or Trenadrol during the first few weeks to help me lean out. I think this should be a great combo.

[PG]

OK so I think I'll go with a 12-week TEST/DBOL stack, and take the unmethylated oral Propadrol or Trenadrol during the first few weeks to help me lean out. I think this should be a great combo.

test + dbol only

you don't need the other ****

[WantToBeStudly]

test + dbol only

you don't need the other ****

Well if DBOL is hard to get ahold of, maybe I can use H-Drol (halodrol clone) instead to kick-start?

[daweakone]

Hey PG i've been reading an searching these treads for weeks.
U made this so simple an clear. I've made up my mind on which im gonna use for my 1st cycle. I ;ve tried several PH's so im trying to skip trying other ones an possibly straining my liver ,trying all these blends an products.
I currently sit at 5'9 180 about 10-12% bf. my goal is 190-200lbs by june.

Much props dude
BUMP!!

[leborg]

Thanks you PG, this is a very good thread.

Now my question: how many cycle does it takes for a beginner to become a intermediate user??

And what would a good intermediate cycle look like?

[drolfreak]

Thanks you PG, this is a very good thread.

Now my question: how many cycle does it takes for a beginner to become a intermediate user??

And what would a good intermediate cycle look like?

That depends on what the 'beginner' used in their cycles? Dont worry so much about an intermediate cycle, and just choose a cycle that will help you achieve your goals.

[geeseman]

Have read up a bit on Test E and concerned about the estrogen increase and water rentention using it when compared to sustanon 250.
Would 125mg sust 250 EOD be the better solution to test e in this case? Run this over 12 weeks and then nolva as mentioned previously as pct
thanks

[Xtralarge123]

great post learned a lot.

[PG]

Have read up a bit on Test E and concerned about the estrogen increase and water rentention using it when compared to sustanon 250.
Would 125mg sust 250 EOD be the better solution to test e in this case? Run this over 12 weeks and then nolva as mentioned previously as pct
thanks

as long as you can stand pinning yourself EOD

[xpunksurferx]

one question....if your a young guy..22 say...how do you know if you are prone to hair loss? My fam has good hair hist but any other way? also I have pubertial gyno lingering....safe to say im at risk? can the gyno be controlled with a proper pct, AI or is it best to stay away completely?

[drolfreak]

Gyno can be controlled to an extent with the proper ancilliaries, what that would be exactly though depends on the cycle.

As for hair loss its just one of those things, if its going to happen then its going to happen, lookinh at relatives is as good a guide as anything, but theres no way of being sure. Would losing your hair really be such a big issue?

[PG]

Gyno can be controlled to an extent with the proper ancilliaries, what that would be exactly though depends on the cycle.

As for hair loss its just one of those things, if its going to happen then its going to happen, lookinh at relatives is as good a guide as anything, but theres no way of being sure. Would losing your hair really be such a big issue?

x2


if you are going to do a cyce with nandrolone (Deca or NPP) or Trenbolone then you are going to need to have Cabergoline or Bromo, and B6.

For standard testosterone cycles, just grab something like Adex (anastrozole), Letro (letrozole), or Aromasin (exemestane)

here are the dosings:
Adex @ 0.25mg ED
Letro @ 1-1.25mg EOD
Arom @ 30mg EOD

The strongest one is Letro, then aromasin, then adex. I would encourage you to stick with Adex. it works perfectly and doesn't have an estrogen rebound.

[reliim]

is finasteride a good choice withe deca ?? someone say obsolutely no

[PG]

is finasteride a good choice withe deca ?? someone say obsolutely no

Testosterone, and Tren are the main ones that cause hair loss.

[saosin19]

is finasteride a good choice withe deca ?? someone say obsolutely no

Suppodly using any type of drug like finasteride either proscar or properica with deca will actually be worse on your hair than proscar and test or proscar and. Something about it together makes hair fall out, but proscar and others like test and other ones are suppodly safe.

[reliim]

Suppodly using any type of drug like finasteride either proscar or properica with deca will actually be worse on your hair than proscar and test or proscar and. Something about it together makes hair fall out, but proscar and others like test and other ones are suppodly safe.

so at the end finasteride is a good choice or a solution only with test.... with deca bad, with trembo bad , with dht derivated it has no effect...

so only with "only test cycles" finasteride works...

[Sixt33n]

Bump for some recent retards.

[swole2008]

Bump for some recent retards.

lol when i saw this thread on the top, i knew it was you who bumped it

[Sixt33n]

lol when i saw this thread on the top, i knew it was you who bumped it

Yeah that and the "last post by Sixt33n", lol.

[PG]

Bump fior all the fu*k tards here now

[Reciprocity]

Bump fior all the fu*k tards here now

Trolls have been coming in strong lately.

[drolfreak]

Havent seen this thread around for a few days, so figured i'd give it a bump

[PG]

Havent seen this thread around for a few days, so figured i'd give it a bump

bump again for all the newbies

[BIG case]

Bump,judging by front page,looks as if its needed

[PG]

bumped for the new r-tards

[BIG case]

needed once again BUMP

[hardcore1]

Thankyou very much very informative.

[BIG case]

F'in BUMP

Today was one hell of a n00b ass day! Geez people,READ THIS SH*T,the sticky's,FAQ's and stop asking such stupid ass questions

[sideways1]

damn i was injecting my dbol pills today and blood squirted everywhere... am i okay?? is my penis going to shrink? :(

i don't want to gain too much weight, maybe like 50 lbs? so i dont want to use test.

[Simon85]

It should be stickied!

[BIG case]

damn i was injecting my dbol pills today and blood squirted everywhere... am i okay?? is my penis going to shrink? :(

i don't want to gain too much weight, maybe like 50 lbs? so i dont want to use test.

LOL,youre good to go bro....novedex xt pamprin 2 weeks after last blood squirt 40/40/20/20 :)

It should be stickied!

Agree totally man....we should keep it bumped till then

[dannydxd]

I haven't been able to find any information on what kind of PCT should be followed, if at all, for first time users (first time period). I've seen plenty of programs to follow for Test E 500, but not 250. My second cycle, I'll try Test E 500 with Dbol, but for now, i'm trying Test E 250 alone to see how my body reacts as a foundation. I was told that I don't need any kind of PCT with such a small doses of Test for this 12 week period. I had to do extra research to validate this, as I'd rather not end up with bitch tits and/or lose a lot more muscle, post cycle, just because i trusted one source; that i don't need PCT with Test 250 / week for 12 weeks alone (not stacked). Thanks!

[angeldevil]

I haven't been able to find any information on what kind of PCT should be followed, if at all, for first time users (first time period). I've seen plenty of programs to follow for Test E 500, but not 250. My second cycle, I'll try Test E 500 with Dbol, but for now, i'm trying Test E 250 alone to see how my body reacts as a foundation. I was told that I don't need any kind of PCT with such a small doses of Test for this 12 week period. I had to do extra research to validate this, as I'd rather not end up with bitch tits and/or lose a lot more muscle, post cycle, just because i trusted one source; that i don't need PCT with Test 250 / week for 12 weeks alone (not stacked). Thanks!

you will be shut down also with 250mg of test so YOU NEED PCT

[dannydxd]

So I'm guessing regardless what kind of cycle is taken, complex or simple, (Test 250/500, w/DBol, and/or w/Deca, etc), if your nuts shut down, the same PCT is followed regardless, ie, whether it's Test 250 or Test 500 I'd still follow (recommended here):
Nolvadex - 40/20/20/20/20 (week 13-17)
Clomid - 100/100/50 (week 13-15)

I'm sure there are individual tolerances, but is that the gist of PCT?

I think after doing Test E 250 for about 4 weeks, and all goes well, is there a problem with upping it to Test E 500? I know folks here say that roid rage is fake, ie if you're an aHole before, you'll still be an aHole. I'm a pretty calm guy, but i work with a lot of people all day, and sometimes they get on my nerves, so i have to play this one out to make sure it doesn't screw with my mentality too much and can be controlled.

Thanks!

you will be shut down also with 250mg of test so YOU NEED PCT

[BIG case]

back to the front we go

[MasterJedi]

back to the front we go

It's for a good cause.

[Bodfather]

Hey iron manglers, im wondering what the dosage of nolva is wen used for treatment of gyno symptoms...
left nip got a lil sensitive last week, how shuld i dose my nolva?
Took 40mg yesterday, is that too much? Should i stick to 20mg for a week or 2?

[PG]

Hey iron manglers, im wondering what the dosage of nolva is wen used for treatment of gyno symptoms...
left nip got a lil sensitive last week, how shuld i dose my nolva?
Took 40mg yesterday, is that too much? Should i stick to 20mg for a week or 2?

you could probably get away with 10mg ED, but since you are already feeling the sensitiveness, use 20mg ED for week 1, then 10mg week 2.

it should clear it up, if not then look into anastrozole (Adex) or Letrozole (letro)

[Hookerwrench]

Are there benefits to kickstarting a cycle with d-bol or prop other than a few extra lbs...and of course knowing if you got fake gear or not...lol. Also, thinking of running test E 500 a week etc as PG put it in the OP, but was wondering if putting in like 200 a week of deca would help out with my knees (I have mild arthritis...actually its chondro malatia if you know what that is) or would it make me blow up like a tick with water. BTW don't care about deca dick as I am in the desert and can't screw nuffin here anyways....LOL

[PG]

Are there benefits to kickstarting a cycle with d-bol or prop other than a few extra lbs...and of course knowing if you got fake gear or not...lol. Also, thinking of running test E 500 a week etc as PG put it in the OP, but was wondering if putting in like 200 a week of deca would help out with my knees (I have mild arthritis...actually its chondro malatia if you know what that is) or would it make me blow up like a tick with water. BTW don't care about deca dick as I am in the desert and can't screw nuffin here anyways....LOL

200mg a week of Deca would help a lot with your joints, shouldn't bloat you to bad either.

Just combine it with your test injection.

250mg Test E + 100mg Deca on Sunday
250mg Test E + 100mg Deca on Wednesday


as far as the kick start its mainly for the added strength and size, before your long ester injectable fully reaches its peak in your blood plasma

[usmcspike]

It's been a real long time since I last used. I have fallen off of what I was at and really need to get back into my best shape. So a very reputable source gave me extreme tren 250 and cypiobol 250 for a 10 wk cycle. I very much have a lot of trust in source as he was the guy who helped before. He said one was "like or is" GH and the other is strong as deca....so what can you guys tell me as I am getting back into the swing of things.

[PG]

It's been a real long time since I last used. I have fallen off of what I was at and really need to get back into my best shape. So a very reputable source gave me extreme tren 250 and cypiobol 250 for a 10 wk cycle. I very much have a lot of trust in source as he was the guy who helped before. He said one was "like or is" GH and the other is strong as deca....so what can you guys tell me as I am getting back into the swing of things.

well your source f-cked you over Extreme Tren 250 is actual prohormone, and a clone "knock off" of another prohormone.

Cypiobol, couldn't tell you, if anything its test cypionate

Neither are like GH

[BIG case]

It's been a real long time since I last used. I have fallen off of what I was at and really need to get back into my best shape. So a very reputable source gave me extreme tren 250 and cypiobol 250 for a 10 wk cycle. I very much have a lot of trust in source as he was the guy who helped before. He said one was "like or is" GH and the other is strong as deca....so what can you guys tell me as I am getting back into the swing of things.

Go with a simple Test cycle man. Apparently one is Trenbolone obviously Enanthate if it is truly dosed at 250 and the other is Test Cypionate<<<go with the Test only 500mg/wk 12 weeks followed by nolva/clomid PCT.

All of this info is in this thread,stickys,FAQs if youll just take some time to go over em

EDIT:Dammit PG!! You gonna keep me editing all day? lol,Prohormone makes perfect sense(ive never heard of it)but was wondering who the HELL would call their sh*t "Extreme Tren"

[usmcspike]

Here I grabbed the bottles..... 2 Bottles of Trenbolone Enanthate 250 MG/ML Total Content 10ML the other is 1 Bottle of Cypionato de Testosterona 250 mg
my mistake on the extreme tren, when i googled something called tren it came up on internet as extreme tren......does this clarify? Both are injectables.

[Hookerwrench]

if I ran deca for my joints, would taking adex be counter productive since it would dry me back out? Also read eq is good for joints...what is your take on that?

[Bodfather]

if I ran deca for my joints, would taking adex be counter productive since it would dry me back out? Also read eq is good for joints...what is your take on that?

Im not sure bout deca, but im currently running 400mg/week equipoise and that was not enough to counteract the effect 0.25mg adex for 3 days had on my joints...
For 4 weeks bench was progressing so nicely, started adex and my shoulders started facking out on my warm up sets! Switched over to nolva, doesnt dry u out as much

[PG]

Here I grabbed the bottles..... 2 Bottles of Trenbolone Enanthate 250 MG/ML Total Content 10ML the other is 1 Bottle of Cypionato de Testosterona 250 mg
my mistake on the extreme tren, when i googled something called tren it came up on internet as extreme tren......does this clarify? Both are injectables.both are injectable, and you have to inject them 2x a week, either Monday & Thursday, or Sunday & Wednesday.

Run Tren Enanthate for 10-12 weeks, and Test for 12-14.

if I ran deca for my joints, would taking adex be counter productive since it would dry me back out? Also read eq is good for joints...what is your take on that?in my personal experience, Deca at 200mg did more for my joints then EQ at 900mg so far. So i dunno. my recovery on deca was awesome too.

Im not sure bout deca, but im currently running 400mg/week equipoise and that was not enough to counteract the effect 0.25mg adex for 3 days had on my joints...
For 4 weeks bench was progressing so nicely, started adex and my shoulders started facking out on my warm up sets! Switched over to nolva, doesnt dry u out as much
hmmm kinda agree. Adex lowers estrogen in the body and slightly upregulates testosterone. But that i know of it doesn't affect the collagen levels in your joints. But i could see it happening due to the lowering of estrogen, meaning less water "cushion" in your body.

On 200mg Deca you shouldn't need an AI if anything run 10mg Nolva ED to stop the chances of gyno.

[usmcspike]

where do these stack up amongst the rest? I want to stack up on muscle but really more on ripping out.

[CrackOn]

both are injectable, and you have to inject them 2x a week, either Monday & Thursday, or Sunday & Wednesday.

Run Tren Enanthate for 10-12 weeks, and Test for 12-14.

in my personal experience, Deca at 200mg did more for my joints then EQ at 900mg so far. So i dunno. my recovery on deca was awesome too.


hmmm kinda agree. Adex lowers estrogen in the body and slightly upregulates testosterone. But that i know of it doesn't affect the collagen levels in your joints. But i could see it happening due to the lowering of estrogen, meaning less water "cushion" in your body.

On 200mg Deca you shouldn't need an AI if anything run 10mg Nolva ED to stop the chances of gyno.
What if i run 20mg ed nolvadex on cycle for the chance of my puberty gyno to grow bigger? Or 10mg is enough? some say 20 some say 10 but il believe u as the one of the most knowlegeable guys here. Do u like proviron? Oh im running 500mg testC a wk for 10wk and 4wk of dbol at 35mg.
Thanks
ps. Ive post t in the log and no one interested so i hope il get some info! I did tons of reserch tho but differ guy diff thought!

[PG]

where do these stack up amongst the rest? I want to stack up on muscle but really more on ripping out.ripping up while on cycle is going to come down to your nutrition. Tren will help, but you need to get a set diet plan.

What if i run 20mg ed nolvadex on cycle for the chance of my puberty gyno to grow bigger? Or 10mg is enough? some say 20 some say 10 but il believe u as the one of the most knowledgeable guys here. Do u like proviron? Oh im running 500mg testC a wk for 10wk and 4wk of dbol at 35mg.
Thanks
ps. Ive post t in the log and no one interested so i hope il get some info! I did tons of research tho but differ guy diff thought!either 20mg nolva or a low dose of an AI. its up to you. mainly cause dbol and test can aromatize into estrogen.

Proviron is pretty weak. Nolva would do a better job at preventing gyno to worsen

[CrackOn]

ripping up while on cycle is going to come down to your nutrition. Tren will help, but you need to get a set diet plan.

either 20mg nolva or a low dose of an AI. its up to you. mainly cause dbol and test can aromatize into estrogen.

Proviron is pretty weak. Nolva would do a better job at preventing gyno to worsen
Thanks PG You are da man!! Repped!

Should i run nolvadex in the first week? What if i start with 20mg for 4wk and drop to 10mg for the rest of the cycle? I only have 90pills of Nolvadex-D which I think i can't run all through cycle and in the pct! Should i get more?
I also have given 100 of 50mg of proviron for free so should i use it 25mg ed through the cycle or just give it away?

ps. Hard to get an ai here. No chem research site which the pharma ai would be really expensive! More than gear and pct together!!

[Hookerwrench]

BUMP.....sticky this thing already....LOL

[jo1212]

I've been using test400 with testoviron for about 13 weeks now, took last shot yesterday, gonna finish in about 3 weeks hopefully. How should i come off it safely and keep gains i've made? Will I need hcg before i take nolvadex? Also i've heard its better to use clenbuterol or ephedrine aswell to limit the loss of weight and mass? Any advice appreciated ..cheers..

[usmcspike]

anyone know about Cypionato de Testosterona 250 mg or is it the basic test

[MarkVI]

anyone know about Cypionato de Testosterona 250 mg or is it the basic test

Test Cypionate written in spanish.....

[spowers1]

Great job on a nice thread PG :D reps when I can

[BIG case]

BUMP.....sticky this thing already....LOL

Im really not sure why it hasn't been stickied...I know ALOT of people have been wanting it.

Really looking at it though its prob best if its not,we all know n00bs never read the damn stickys,which is why I try to bump it as often as possible

So let's keep this sh*t bumped bros,maybe the few that actually wanna learn will read through it

[asdfdrummer]

thanks for the good info. id rep you if i could.

[MarkVI]

thanks for the good info. id rep you if i could.

did it for ya

[Bodfather]

So i got my HCG today-3x 2000iu powder plus 3x1ml solution...
So when i mix them together, i will have 1ml of hcg right(dosed at 2000iu)?
If im to shoot 250iu twice a week, this means i draw 1/8th of the ml out for one shot right?
Can i mix it with my test shot IM or must it be shot separately?
Just wanna make sure!
Shot bros

[PG]

So i got my HCG today-3x 2000iu powder plus 3x1ml solution...
So when i mix them together, i will have 1ml of hcg right(dosed at 2000iu)?
If im to shoot 250iu twice a week, this means i draw 1/8th of the ml out for one shot right?
Can i mix it with my test shot IM or must it be shot separately?
Just wanna make sure!
Shot bros

-yes 1ml will equal 2000IU. SO you need 1/8th of a ml for 250IU. Easy and most accurate way is to use a 1ML or 1/2ML slin pin.

-You can mix it with your test shot yea, but you have to be careful of how you inject.

[Bodfather]

-yes 1ml will equal 2000IU. SO you need 1/8th of a ml for 250IU. Easy and most accurate way is to use a 1ML or 1/2ML slin pin.

-You can mix it with your test shot yea, but you have to be careful of how you inject.

Ok cool, thanx!
Just when you say i have to be careful of how inject what do u mean?

[PG]

Ok cool, thanx!
Just when you say i have to be careful of how inject what do u mean?

water based substance inject alot faster then oil based. So be careful from when it goes from oil to water, you inject that water to quick and its going to burn like hell

[MarkVI]

Quick Question about "recovery"


So you jump off cycle and do the PCT....if you're not recovered by that point, what does it mean really in terms of training?

You aren't producing enough test to hold and make gains?

[PG]

Quick Question about "recovery"


So you jump off cycle and do the PCT....if you're not recovered by that point, what does it mean really in terms of training?

You aren't producing enough test to hold and make gains?

its not just natural test production that has to return to normal.

[MarkVI]

its not just natural test production that has to return to normal.

Right, I understand that....but, as far as training goes and seeing gains etc....can you make and keep gains if you don't recover because there is little test being produced? Or do you just turn into a little girl lol.

[maverick000]

Right, I understand that....but, as far as training goes and seeing gains etc....can you make and keep gains if you don't recover because there is little test being produced? Or do you just turn into a little girl lol.

lets say it takes the average person 8 weeks to fully return to homeostasis. The first 4 weeks after your cycle (PCT) are when your levels are in the gutter, by using a PCT we steadily bring them up while lowering estrogen to prevent our estrogen levels from going through the roof. Most people will loose the gains they are going to loose within the first few weeks of PCT, after that assuming diet and training is fine, they do not loose anything more. This would lead me to believe that while test levels are low it is still possible to maintain and hold on to gains, now adding anything is another story. Once I am fully recovered (about 8 weeks for a 10 week cycle) I start making gains again. So i would say when your levels are at 0 or near, you can loose, once they are above zero but still in the low to moderate range its harder to gain but you can still maintain... Also a lot of what is lost is just water weight etc, so even though people have levels near 0 they still are able to maintain muscle until they reach their set point.

[MarkVI]

lets say it takes the average person 8 weeks to fully return to homeostasis. The first 4 weeks after your cycle (PCT) are when your levels are in the gutter, by using a PCT we steadily bring them up while lowering estrogen to prevent our estrogen levels from going through the roof. Most people will loose the gains they are going to loose within the first few weeks of PCT, after that assuming diet and training is fine, they do not loose anything more. This would lead me to believe that while test levels are low it is still possible to maintain and hold on to gains, now adding anything is another story. Once I am fully recovered (about 8 weeks for a 10 week cycle) I start making gains again. So i would say when your levels are at 0 or near, you can loose, once they are above zero but still in the low to moderate range its harder to gain but you can still maintain... Also a lot of what is lost is just water weight etc, so even though people have levels near 0 they still are able to maintain muscle until they reach their set point.



Awesome answer -- thanks! Reps when I can mr. red lol

[maverick000]

Awesome answer -- thanks! Reps when I can mr. red lol

lol mr red is right

[MarkVI]

lol mr red is right

Why? Make a twerp in the teen section cry or something equally as hilarious?

[maverick000]

Why? Make a twerp in the teen section cry or something equally as hilarious?

i made a very sarcastic post here about two months back in reguards to all the trolls and newbs we get in this section and I got a mod neg for it I am pretty sure, I dunno though because it never showed up in my user CP. sucks i try to spread around good info and stuff, but in the end it is what it is

[BIG case]

This muthaf**ka should not leave the first page,bump!

[Mister T 72]

Tren.Ace and the endomorph...

I had read somewhere on a forum that the use of Tren.Ace by a person that is overall a endomorph body type generally results in the most dramatic of physique transformation.Not that others don't respond well to Tren,just that a endomorph seems to get the most fat loss,increase in vascularity and muscle hardening in comparison.

For those that have used Tren,what are your thoughts on this?

I'm mostly an endomorph with meso traits.Gaining muscle and strength isn't much of a problem for me,it is a bit difficult to do so without some fat gain also.I also respond very well to AAS...or did last time I cycled.

[PG]

Tren.Ace and the endomorph...

I had read somewhere on a forum that the use of Tren.Ace by a person that is overall a endomorph body type generally results in the most dramatic of physique transformation.Not that others don't respond well to Tren,just that a endomorph seems to get the most fat loss,increase in vascularity and muscle hardening in comparison.

For those that have used Tren,what are your thoughts on this?

I'm mostly an endomorph with meso traits.Gaining muscle and strength isn't much of a problem for me,it is a bit difficult to do so without some fat gain also.I also respond very well to AAS...or did last time I cycled.

personally i just think thats, fat people getting a little leaner, and exaggerating the effects because they are excited they lost weight. Should be about the same for any bodytype. If any of them would get the vascularity the most it would be Ectomorph.

[TripTastic]

personally i just think thats, fat people getting a little leaner, and exaggerating the effects because they are excited they lost weight. Should be about the same for any bodytype. If any of them would get the vascularity the most it would be Ectomorph.

lol Brilliant.

[usmcspike]

Just finished my first week on tren 250 and test 250 2x wk. I am now starting to see some strength increases. When I was struggling to get my max wt up before on my bi's/tri's/bench and shoulders, I am now able to do it without a struggle and can do more...So I can see strength increases....Only had one irritable outburst that I didn't see coming. I do have two partial herniated discs in L4 L5 while in the service, so alot of times I can't do the crunches like I used to. I was wondering I have a friend that has been in the business of Boxing for 25+ years.....I was wondering do you think that Boxing would really help replace the boring treadmill work. I was also wondering if I should do DNP or Clen at the end of this cycle to help with my diet and shredding down. I know that diet is 80% of leaning out....but looking for some feedback.

By the way, I really appreciate the help guys....Some of you like PG are extremely knowledgable...I have been away from this stuff since '98 when I went into the USMC. Thanks again...

[PG]

Just finished my first week on tren 250 and test 250 2x wk. I am now starting to see some strength increases. When I was struggling to get my max wt up before on my bi's/tri's/bench and shoulders, I am now able to do it without a struggle and can do more...So I can see strength increases....Only had one irritable outburst that I didn't see coming. I do have two partial herniated discs in L4 L5 while in the service, so alot of times I can't do the crunches like I used to. I was wondering I have a friend that has been in the business of Boxing for 25+ years.....I was wondering do you think that Boxing would really help replace the boring treadmill work. I was also wondering if I should do DNP or Clen at the end of this cycle to help with my diet and shredding down. I know that diet is 80% of leaning out....but looking for some feedback.

By the way, I really appreciate the help guys....Some of you like PG are extremely knowledgable...I have been away from this stuff since '98 when I went into the USMC. Thanks again...i feel your pain i have a grade 1 slipped disc in my L3 or L4. But im here strong, hack squatted 6plates each side this week. Keep your mind on the goal and you can do it bro.

Do your PCT, then a few weeks after that is done, start DNP if you want too. I would say do a 5 week PCT, 2 weeks after thats done start DNP.

whats your PCT look like? YOu might of already told me but i get alot of this and forget sometimes. Also i hope you are using Tren Enanthate, i think you are.

[usmcspike]

I know this sounds shameful but I was going to get Novaldex but I am just getting back into and some stuff has changed in 10 years. What do you think.....

[PG]

I know this sounds shameful but I was going to get Novaldex but I am just getting back into and some stuff has changed in 10 years. What do you think.....

since you are on tren, and its one of the most suppressive substances, i would get an amp of HCG for the week before you start your PCT. Then use

HCG @ 250IU everyday (**all you need is one 1500IU amp)

then use:
Nolvdex @ 40/20/20/20/20/20
Clomid @ 100/50/50

and you'll be golden

[usmcspike]

Thanks PG. I don't have any reps to give but if I did, I'd have to give you reps for all your help.

[usmcspike]

btw should i be taking any anti-e at this time? i can't remember back that far to remember what I was or if I was back in the day. just wondering

[usmcspike]

is it a very likely possibility to have testicular reduction after 1 week of a stack? Or am I just being paranoid? can it be significant after 1 week? If so, is there something to turn this back early on and prevent the possibility of this? please let me know.

[PG]

btw should i be taking any anti-e at this time? i can't remember back that far to remember what I was or if I was back in the day. just wondering Only if you can't take the bloat, or gyno issues arise. With Tren Enanthate i would get some Cabergoline just to have in case. Tren is known to elevate prolactin and/or progesterone levels which can cause gyno.

is it a very likely possibility to have testicular reduction after 1 week of a stack? Or am I just being paranoid? can it be significant after 1 week? If so, is there something to turn this back early on and prevent the possibility of this? please let me know.
its called testicular atrophy. Its going to happen no matter what. Your testicles will go back to normal size once you come off and start your PCT. HCG is to get your boys back to normal size asap. the thing is you can't run it during your cycle because to much or running it to long will cause negative affects. Trust me they will shrink, but come back during PCT. no worries