Front Relaxed as a NATURAL

[Ivan25]

Should this pose have abs tensed or vacuumed?

Tensed looks more ripped vacuumed looks more proportionate, however, even if vacuumed and person has great abs, judges can still see leanness from paper thin skin over abs and all tendinous inscriptions from vacuum (which I might add looks impressive as well) and v-taper is better looking.. So which pose?

Tensing abs on a front double bicep seems like a bad move IMO... It completely washes out the v-taper and looks unnatural looking... Thoughts???

[Agostage]

I agree that a good vacuum is impressive but from the shows I've seen and ones I've been in I always see tensed abs rewarded before a vacuum. I'd say current judges lean that way.

[Ivan25]

thanks man... I actually like how I look tensed down.... I've never looked too good in this pose, but I also know I've never been this lean.. So I will tense down.. Thanks..

[Ivan25]

Actually just read this excerpt from Skip Lacour's website...

"Don?t crunch down on abs during the relaxed poses. There will be plenty of time to show abs later. Crunching down makes you look blocky by showing your obliques. Legs flexed hard!/Back arched!/Chest up!/Shoulders back!/Spread your lats OUT wide!
Don?t spread your legs wide during the mandatories! This ruins your V-taper by spreading out your small base needed to create the small V-taper illusion!"

I heard his name on top natural bodybuilder, but based on this advice, I'm not sure he is a natural... Again, it makes no sense to emphasize these small points of v-taper when leanness of top interest of judges.. So what is the real answer?!

[Cytrainer913]

Crunching down on the abs is a matter of how your body looks in this pose, Some can really get away with a crunch down on the abs and still look great in the rest of the body, I know Jon Harris, reigning WNBF World Champion, looks great in this pose.

But for the most part, most of us are going to have lift the chest high and more or less lengthen the abs out and if your lean enough those abs will be separated in this pose.

[TJ_Strong]

Depends on which looks better on you

For example, I dont have good abs to begin with

not to mention when i flex my abs in the front relaxed it makes my lats appear smaller

[billfinkbiner]

Actually just read this excerpt from Skip Lacour's website...

"Don?t crunch down on abs during the relaxed poses. There will be plenty of time to show abs later. Crunching down makes you look blocky by showing your obliques. Legs flexed hard!/Back arched!/Chest up!/Shoulders back!/Spread your lats OUT wide!
Don?t spread your legs wide during the mandatories! This ruins your V-taper by spreading out your small base needed to create the small V-taper illusion!"

I heard his name on top natural bodybuilder, but based on this advice, I'm not sure he is a natural... Again, it makes no sense to emphasize these small points of v-taper when leanness of top interest of judges.. So what is the real answer?!

2 points

1. Skip LaCour competed extremely lean

2. Leanness is not neccessarily the top interest of natural judges. I was the leanest person in my open tall class at the NANBF Gateway Naturals and was beaten by the mass of my fellow competitors. These guys looked great and had incrdible thickness. Even my judging critique showed this where I was praised for my conditioning and told that I needed to add more mass to my physique. The judges are looking for the total package.

[liftjunkie06]

2 points

1. Skip LaCour competed extremely lean

2. Leanness is not neccessarily the top interest of natural judges. I was the leanest person in my open tall class at the NANBF Gateway Naturals and was beaten by the mass of my fellow competitors. These guys looked great and had incrdible thickness. Even my judging critique showed this where I was praised for my conditioning and told that I needed to add more mass to my physique. The judges are looking for the total package.


I've noticed this as well, after looking at the winners of the past natural shows here in CO. Lean isn't it--it's presentation, symmetry, thickness, muscle maturity, etc.

[Agostage]

Depends on which looks better on you



Yeah, that's very true. Tight abs works for me but I don't 'crunch down', I try to think 'high and tight'. I try to pull my abs up and tight, not crunch down. I can get away with this because my upper abs are very deep, so much so I can see them at high fat %. So in the end It really just depends on the individual I guess.

[Quelly]

i agree with all the above posts....although I dont see why the advice would be different for a natural or a juicer

[SleepLifter]

This is something I'm going to experiment with next time. I've seen it done both ways by world champions. Dave Goodin vacuums, Rob Hope and Jon Harris crunch.

For some reason even when I had striated glutes and split hams, I just don't show much abs seperation when in a vaccuum. I can hold my own in any other pose, but looking back on the tape- I should have crunched.

I think it depends on body frame and composition.

[TCannon]

In my opinion the vacuum is great for side poses since it gives the illusion that the waist is smaller then what it really is. But in most front poses that Ive seen people hit vacuums in, it just looks like they are hiding sub par ab development. In my opinion the front relaxed and front DB are extremely good times to show off the quality of your abdominals and I only hit vaccuums in things like the side chest and twisting poses.

[Agostage]

Agreed, it seems there just isn't much to look at in a vaccum. As opposed to tensed abs.

[Ivan25]

I personally believe that a vacuum is impressive.. and i will continue hitting it on front relaxed.. It is impressive if abs are separated, plus v-taper looks better... I believe tensing abs on side relaxed is better.. It appears more ripped.. And when i do this, my waist still looks small, but the ripples in the abs tying in with my obliques and serratus makes it look sick from side relaxed... I found that in my last show, i didnt look good in a side vacuum.. but i did from the front... It looks more natural and it adds variety to your most ab shot.. In other words, when crunching down on front relaxed, you will look same in most ab shot... No variety or stimulation... If you are lean and ripped, i personally believe it is a matter of personal preference and what you feel makes you look best.. For me, i am going to have to say it is a vacuum on front relaxed and abs tight on side relaxed....

Juicers carry more muscle mass on frame at 3-5% body fat than naturals, thus lines and posing postures will look different.. A double straight arm pose to side (One of arnold's favorites) looks bad on a natural with tight ripped arms (14.5-16 inches)... But for a non-natural with 18-20 inch arms, it looks good... A natural's arms get washed out and mass appeal is lost...

[Quelly]

I personally believe that a vacuum is impressive.. and i will continue hitting it on front relaxed.. It is impressive if abs are separated, plus v-taper looks better... I believe tensing abs on side relaxed is better.. It appears more ripped.. And when i do this, my waist still looks small, but the ripples in the abs tying in with my obliques and serratus makes it look sick from side relaxed... I found that in my last show, i didnt look good in a side vacuum.. but i did from the front... It looks more natural and it adds variety to your most ab shot.. In other words, when crunching down on front relaxed, you will look same in most ab shot... No variety or stimulation... If you are lean and ripped, i personally believe it is a matter of personal preference and what you feel makes you look best.. For me, i am going to have to say it is a vacuum on front relaxed and abs tight on side relaxed....

Juicers carry more muscle mass on frame at 3-5% body fat than naturals, thus lines and posing postures will look different.. A double straight arm pose to side (One of arnold's favorites) looks bad on a natural with tight ripped arms (14.5-16 inches)... But for a non-natural with 18-20 inch arms, it looks good... A natural's arms get washed out and mass appeal is lost...

yeah...but a blanket statement that all juiceers are bigger than all naturals, so that naturals should pose one way and juicers should pose another seems kinda silly dont you think?

Oh and I agree with you on the posing...although I'd say if your lats are lagging you may not want a front vacuum, because the transition from a front relaxed with vacuum to a front lat spread looks very unimpressive...kind of like a front abs tightened to an ab shot

[Ivan25]

yeah...but a blanket statement that all juiceers are bigger than all naturals, so that naturals should pose one way and juicers should pose another seems kinda silly dont you think?

Oh and I agree with you on the posing...although I'd say if your lats are lagging you may not want a front vacuum, because the transition from a front relaxed with vacuum to a front lat spread looks very unimpressive...kind of like a front abs tightened to an ab shot

Right on with posing.. As for blanket statement, yes sort of true.. some naturals who are meso's can get away with double straight arms shots... The shorter stocky mesos with short arms, yes... But most naturals wash out... for the most part, posing is same for juicers and naturals, but there are subtle differences and tweaks across the happy medium IMO...