Power snatch or power cleans?

[James456]

Which do you think is the better exercise and which leads to better functional strength?

[sirwazzles]

Which do you think is the better exercise and which leads to better functional strength?

Power clean if I had to choose. But in my opinion, I don't think many people do much work, like in real life/everyday terms, that resembles either lift.

[Marc27Default]

The clean would develop more strength as the weight is heavier. The snatch is still an extremely athletic lift and I would prefer it for developing speed.

[BigLarge]

Power clean if I had to choose. But in my opinion, I don't think many people do much work, like in real life/everyday terms, that resembles either lift.

There is a reason why football players do ALOT of power cleans....

[GoJu]

There is a reason why football players do ALOT of power cleans....

cause they suck at snatching?

sorry biased from seeing lots of terrible football o-lift form haha!

to the OP, why choose? do both!

IMO the snatch is better for developing speed and flexibility, but definetly also do cleans for the added weight.

[Kiknskreem]

Power clean if I had to choose. But in my opinion, I don't think many people do much work, like in real life/everyday terms, that resembles either lift.

Really... you don't get much hip, knee or ankle extension going in a typical day? You never move things with your upper body while your legs are driving into the ground? You don't use lots of muscle groups in a coordinated manner (ie, moving).

Not to be harsh, but a statement like this shows you really need to go back and take a basic primer on athletics and human motion. Full body barbell exercises are basically a loaded expression of natural human kinetics.

[GoJu]

Really... you don't get much hip, knee or ankle extension going in a typical day? You never move things with your upper body while your legs are driving into the ground? You don't use lots of muscle groups in a coordinated manner (ie, moving).

Not to be harsh, but a statement like this shows you really need to go back and take a basic primer on athletics and human motion. Full body barbell exercises are basically a loaded expression of natural human kinetics.

NO WAY! DIAMONDDELTS SAID THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING IN REAL LIFE!

[Kiknskreem]

NO WAY! DIAMONDDELTS SAID THEY DON'T DO ANYTHING IN REAL LIFE!

The exercise forum is for entertainment purposes only.

[GoJu]

The exercise forum is for entertainment purposes only.

lol :D

[vegasdsm]

The exercise forum is for entertainment purposes only.

cosigned...

[Arlecchino]

There is a reason why football players do ALOT of power cleans....


cause they suck at snatching?

sorry biased from seeing lots of terrible football o-lift form haha!

to the OP, why choose? do both!

IMO the snatch is better for developing speed and flexibility, but definetly also do cleans for the added weight.


Actually, the power clean more closely simulates the action of the lineman after the snap, so it should be somewhat more specific than the power snatch.

While the clean can contribute more to overall power, as more weight is moved, a big advantage of the power snatch is the way it works the external rotators.

[Marc27Default]

The exercise forum is for entertainment purposes only.

Well the exercise forum is pretty much full of bodybuilding devotees and to be fair this is a bodybuilding site. No one said the exercises all had to be usefull. :)

[sirwazzles]

Really... you don't get much hip, knee or ankle extension going in a typical day? You never move things with your upper body while your legs are driving into the ground? You don't use lots of muscle groups in a coordinated manner (ie, moving).

Not to be harsh, but a statement like this shows you really need to go back and take a basic primer on athletics and human motion. Full body barbell exercises are basically a loaded expression of natural human kinetics.

Hmm, do I get all those different movements all at one time in a very explosive manner every single day?? I SURE DO!! (Extreme sarcasm)

Just in case you didn't read the original post, the OP didn't ask, "Do you use all the different individual movements of either the power clean or power snatch in a typical day?" He asked which one leads to better functional strength. And in my opinion, the average person does not try and explode a weight off the floor and catch it every day.

You need to calm down and look at things from a different perspective and realize that not all people think exactly like you do. Sure a lot of people do the things you said on an average daily basis. But if you look at it from my point of view and still say it's functional for everyday then you're an idiot. (Not to be harsh, just sayin'.)


And for the guy talking about football players... you just named one group of people that it would be functional for, so what are you talking about? I'm talking about athletes, as well as normal/average people here. In which case neither movement is very functional on a day to day basis.

[Arlecchino]

Hmm, do I get all those different movements all at one time in a very explosive manner every single day?? I SURE DO!! (Extreme sarcasm)

Just in case you didn't read the original post, the OP didn't ask, "Do you use all the different individual movements of either the power clean or power snatch in a typical day?" He asked which one leads to better functional strength. And in my opinion, the average person does not try and explode a weight off the floor and catch it every day.

You need to calm down and look at things from a different perspective and realize that not all people think exactly like you do. Sure a lot of people do the things you said on an average daily basis. But if you look at it from my point of view and still say it's functional for everyday then you're an idiot. (Not to be harsh, just sayin'.)


And for the guy talking about football players... you just named one group of people that it would be functional for, so what are you talking about? I'm talking about athletes, as well as normal/average people here. In which case neither movement is very functional on a day to day basis.

Well, the re-bend as well as the catch can both contribute to vertical leap, which occurs in several sports.

How many people actually pick something up off of the ground to above waist level every day? Quite a few. For everyone who does, these are fairly functional exercises.

And the triple extension of both lifts contributes to vertical leap or any action where one pushes with the legs.

[sirwazzles]

Well, the re-bend as well as the catch can both contribute to vertical leap, which occurs in several sports.

How many people actually pick something up off of the ground to above waist level every day? Quite a few. For everyone who does, these are fairly functional exercises.

And the triple extension of both lifts contributes to vertical leap or any action where one pushes with the legs.

Good point. People jump more often than things closer in form to the lift, in my opinion.

But picking up at waist level isn't what I was talking about, if it was, we'd be talkin' about deadlifts here. :D I meant that people trying to pick stuff up to waist level, and explode it upwards with their hips to their chest doesn't seem like something that happens in many places other than construction sites maybe (I'm still talking about normal people here as well).

In my response I was really talking about the exercise as a whole being considered functional in terms of something like it happening every day for a lot of people (before it was attacked for really no reason). Of course the individual parts/movements of the exercise are used for a lot of people. But in all honesty, how many people do anything similar to the ACTUAL, WHOLE lift everyday therefore making the lift really functional?? Not many, I don't think.

[Arlecchino]

Good point. People jump more often than things closer in form to the lift, in my opinion.

But picking up at waist level isn't what I was talking about, if it was, we'd be talkin' about deadlifts here. :D I meant that people trying to pick stuff up to waist level, and explode it upwards with their hips to their chest doesn't seem like something that happens in many places other than construction sites maybe (I'm still talking about normal people here as well).

In my response I was really talking about the exercise as a whole being considered functional in terms of something like it happening every day for a lot of people (before it was attacked for really no reason). Of course the individual parts/movements of the exercise are used for a lot of people. But in all honesty, how many people do anything similar to the ACTUAL, WHOLE lift everyday therefore making the lift really functional?? Not many, I don't think.

Note: I said lifting above the waist, not to waist level. Most people who wind up lifting things carry them above the level of their pen0r, which makes things like the pull (both snatch and clean) more specific than the dealift, and many people lift things as quickly as possible. Also, whenever possible, I try to carry things on my shoulder, easier to balance. The number of people who perform this sort of lifting is roughly equal to the number of people who do physical work every day or play many sports.

No lift is 100% specific to anything but itself. Each lift can only be less or more specific than another lift. What the quick lifts have to offer, particularly the power versions of same:

1. Tripple extension of ankle, knee, and hip benefits anything where this occurs in RL (most sports and physical labor type jobs, basically).
2. To a degree will work FT fibers more than slower type of lifting, benefiting anyone who lifts heavy in such a manner (many sports and physical labor type jobs, basically)
3. Power clean allows more weight to be used, strengthening the upper back (traps and posterior deltoids) more than many other lifts, promoting proper postural alignment and helping prevent injury secondary to numerous muscle imbalances which occur when a variety of both athletes and laborers fail to strengthen these critical muscles.
4. Power snatch is one of the best exercises for maintain not only a strong upper back, but the external rotators as well (the Cuban press, which is used in both pre- and re-hab for this very reason, was developed from the snatch.

[Bodysteele]

Pcleans for the vast majority of trainees is more useful since it is quite a bit less technical to get to a DECENT level where the triple extension is used/worked properly.

Snatch should only be used by fairly elite athletes who have the time/inclination to put time into partials and form training but once form is gotten down its an EXCELLENT movement for overall explosiveness rivalling Pcleans.

As far as "real world carryover" and that can mean 100 different things I think the backsquat is pretty far out in front if performed properly and for a full ROM.

[J.L.C.]

Good point. People jump more often than things closer in form to the lift, in my opinion.

But picking up at waist level isn't what I was talking about, if it was, we'd be talkin' about deadlifts here. :D I meant that people trying to pick stuff up to waist level, and explode it upwards with their hips to their chest doesn't seem like something that happens in many places other than construction sites maybe (I'm still talking about normal people here as well).

In my response I was really talking about the exercise as a whole being considered functional in terms of something like it happening every day for a lot of people (before it was attacked for really no reason). Of course the individual parts/movements of the exercise are used for a lot of people. But in all honesty, how many people do anything similar to the ACTUAL, WHOLE lift everyday therefore making the lift really functional?? Not many, I don't think.

So I guess you think that people should go to the gym to train slow walking (to prepare from going to the parking lot to the office, or home) and maybe do some stability work to improve their sitting ability (in a desk, in front of a computer) - sitting on a swiss ball maybe?

Since that's is what 'normal people' do on a day to day basis, is there any point in them training in the gym at all? By your definition, there aren't many 'functional exercises' to choose from.

[Kiknskreem]

Hmm, do I get all those different movements all at one time in a very explosive manner every single day?? I SURE DO!! (Extreme sarcasm)

Just in case you didn't read the original post, the OP didn't ask, "Do you use all the different individual movements of either the power clean or power snatch in a typical day?" He asked which one leads to better functional strength. And in my opinion, the average person does not try and explode a weight off the floor and catch it every day.

But if you look at it from my point of view and still say it's functional for everyday then you're an idiot. (Not to be harsh, just sayin'.)

You obviously have zero conceptual understanding of human physiology and kinetics.

[raffiki]

Why do you guys think there is a difference in the snatch pull and clean pull?

[Kiknskreem]

Why do you guys think there is a difference in the snatch pull and clean pull?

x2... all the core elements of the lifts are the same.

[sirwazzles]

You obviously have zero conceptual understanding of human physiology and kinetics.

No, I actually do. It's really you who can't just look at it from a different point of view. Who on a day to day basis picks a very heavy weight off the floor to above waist level and explodes it to their chest?? Not many. I'm just saying that the movement as a WHOLE (keyword there) isn't functional in helping someone do something else, as a WHOLE. Although it's very useful for inceasing ability in movements which are a part of it.

Besides, all this, honestly... quite being such a girl. You're taking this way too seriously and even starting to insult me (a 16-year-old, might I add) because I don't think the same way you do. Grow up. Last time I checked, Einstein failed math because no one else understood (or liked for that matter because of it) the way he thought.

[sirwazzles]

So I guess you think that people should go to the gym to train slow walking (to prepare from going to the parking lot to the office, or home) and maybe do some stability work to improve their sitting ability (in a desk, in front of a computer) - sitting on a swiss ball maybe?

Since that's is what 'normal people' do on a day to day basis, is there any point in them training in the gym at all? By your definition, there aren't many 'functional exercises' to choose from.

No, I was actually thinking abstractly to that of constuction workers, firefighters, movers, garbage men, among many others.

Just asking, but when did I ever say that I thought people should do that? I didn't?? Oh, okay, that's what I thought.

[sirwazzles]

Note: I said lifting above the waist, not to waist level. Most people who wind up lifting things carry them above the level of their pen0r, which makes things like the pull (both snatch and clean) more specific than the dealift, and many people lift things as quickly as possible. Also, whenever possible, I try to carry things on my shoulder, easier to balance. The number of people who perform this sort of lifting is roughly equal to the number of people who do physical work every day or play many sports.

No lift is 100% specific to anything but itself. Each lift can only be less or more specific than another lift. What the quick lifts have to offer, particularly the power versions of same:

1. Tripple extension of ankle, knee, and hip benefits anything where this occurs in RL (most sports and physical labor type jobs, basically).
2. To a degree will work FT fibers more than slower type of lifting, benefiting anyone who lifts heavy in such a manner (many sports and physical labor type jobs, basically)
3. Power clean allows more weight to be used, strengthening the upper back (traps and posterior deltoids) more than many other lifts, promoting proper postural alignment and helping prevent injury secondary to numerous muscle imbalances which occur when a variety of both athletes and laborers fail to strengthen these critical muscles.
4. Power snatch is one of the best exercises for maintain not only a strong upper back, but the external rotators as well (the Cuban press, which is used in both pre- and re-hab for this very reason, was developed from the snatch.

See, now these are very good points that have been made. Instead of being a retard not even trying to have a decent argument and insulting me instead for really no reason other than I'm thinking a little differently than him, he chose to present his side of the argument and shoot me down. So I will now STCU. I applaud him. Great argument.

[Kiknskreem]

No, I actually do. It's really you who can't just look at it from a different point of view. Who on a day to day basis picks a very heavy weight off the floor to above waist level and explodes it to their chest?? Not many. I'm just saying that the movement as a WHOLE (keyword there) isn't functional in helping someone do something else, as a WHOLE. Although it's very useful for inceasing ability in movements which are a part of it.

What is bolded is totally incorrect.

The carryover that a person gets from performing such exercises is expressed regardless of whether they are doing something that mimics the entire motion or not.

The movement as a whole is VERY functional in helping people do other things. The big barbell lifts are just a loaded, scaleable expression of natural human kinetics.

You're making a meaningless distinction. Either way, it remains incorrect because the whole versions of the lift also develop things like core stability, balance, coordination, and kinesthetic awareness. Those things are functional no matter what you are doing

[VolcomX311]

great discussions in here. Deciding which develops more functional strength or more specifically core strength between the two is close and it would have to come down to the core because the triple extension aspect is virtually identical in both. Yes, you use more weight in power cleans, but you're also resting the weight much closer to your center of gravity. In the snatch you're balancing the weight overhead and granted it's less weight then you would use for a Pclean, but stabililzing a weight overhead requires much greater core contraction (especially in a squat), relative to stabilizing a weight closer to your center of gravity. If I had to choose, I'd recommend the Pclean only becasue it's less technical to perform.

[olyw8lifter]

Holy thread-resurrection batman!!! :D

[Faparama]

Holy ****, dudes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_woU5s2fwbZo/SqkGSx4PgNI/AAAAAAABL4E/LS3mzHY_w6s/s400/calm-down.jpg

Both lifts develop ground-based power which aids in all kinds of movements from jumping, climbing stairs, running, or since you like the football reference, a lineman just after the snap.

[ManWithCurls]

Which do you think is the better exercise and which leads to better functional strength?

Anything from the floor to overhead (arms fully extended). That was the test of strength back in the day and, IMO (and according to the International Olympic Committee), that is the test of body strength hence you should be doing thus to work your functional strength (by the way, functional strength is an overused term which is more akin to trendy pop-science articles that I see in websites advocating Crossfit).

Either that or work your specificity. Want to get functional strength for laying bricks? Grab 10 bricks at the same time and perform the same brick laying motion. There.

[someonefat]

neither do a full snatch or full clean not that much harder and much better exercise. Do both they are both important, I put more emphasis on snatch though because the loads are not as heavy I can work more volume-plus I can use straps on snatch more and can't with cleans due to danger so can save my hands a bit also-

[olyw8lifter]

Guys, I doubt the OP is around anymore, this thread is over 3 years old!! :D

[Squinky]

Both are waste of time.

[eyeoftheworld]

If you are taught properly, the power snatch is a little better in my opinion. As several other people said, it's more explosive and you cannot really get away as much with muscling the lift like with power cleans.

[forcefedfreak]

Goddamn do I hate the term "functional strength." Mostly because it's misused when the speaker means "specific strength." So without knowing the task we can't ever know the specificity of a movement in relation.

[Squinky]

Goddamn do I hate the term "functional strength." Mostly because it's misused when the speaker means "specific strength." So without knowing the task we can't ever know the specificity of a movement in relation.

And what about "overall explosiveness". Oh brother...

[lovemyar15]

Goddamn do I hate the term "functional strength." Mostly because it's misused when the speaker means "specific strength." So without knowing the task we can't ever know the specificity of a movement in relation.

^^^This...I get this from crossfitters all the time...lol. They start telling me their lift numbers like overhead press, deadlift, squat, and I beat their numbers then they follow up with...but my strength is more functional.

I have nothing against crossfit I think it is great for some people depending on what your personal goals are, but I'm sick of the elitist attitude I get from some of those people about how their routine is the only routine that gives functional strength. Of course if you set up a test course which uses specific movements that you use every day then it is functional for you just depends what your goals are.

Personally I like doing power lifting routines with lots of volume, but I'm trying to mix in some olympic lifts it's just hard to get the form right without a coach.

[forcefedfreak]

^^^This...I get this from crossfitters all the time...lol. They start telling me their lift numbers like overhead press, deadlift, squat, and I beat their numbers then they follow up with...but my strength is more functional.

I have nothing against crossfit I think it is great for some people depending on what your personal goals are, but I'm sick of the elitist attitude I get from some of those people about how their routine is the only routine that gives functional strength. Of course if you set up a test course which uses specific movements that you use every day then it is functional for you just depends what your goals are.

Personally I like doing power lifting routines with lots of volume, but I'm trying to mix in some olympic lifts it's just hard to get the form right without a coach.



Fitness doesn't exist without context. CrossFit had no context since their training methodologies aren't adequate for any pre-existing sport, so they had to create the CrossFit games to justify their own existence. Then they had the balls to call the winner the "fittest person on the planet." lol...

[EpicLevelWizard]

Last time I checked, Einstein failed math because no one else understood (or liked for that matter because of it) the way he thought.

this is a common misconception, Einstein aced high school math and was doing college level work easily as a teenager, google mutha****a, can u use it? He put an end to this misconception before his death in an interview. Morons have somehow propagated this idiotic statement for 70 years now...

[batmannu]

as a oly lifter, do both..

also the athletes usually do both..