Is egg absorbed faster than milk?

[anorld]

If it's true, then it seems better to consume eggs rather than milk after workout, right? (suppose no supplement is available)

[SIM37]

If you've read many nutrition/supplement related articles. You probably would've found out that Egg white protein has a Biological Value (BV) of 100. It was initially thought that egg white protein was the fastest absorbing protein available.

Until recent years where it was discovered that Whey had a BV (compared to egg white) of up to 150.

Milk protein is made up of 80% casein (BV 75) and 20% whey.

So I guess overall, you'd be better having egg whites for PWO then milk. Milk would be good for just before bedtime

[anorld]

is BV equivalent to absorbing speed?
what about BV of tuna's protein?

[Jotun]

If you've read many nutrition/supplement related articles. You probably would've found out that Egg white protein has a Biological Value (BV) of 100. It was initially thought that egg white protein was the fastest absorbing protein available.

Until recent years where it was discovered that Whey had a BV (compared to egg white) of up to 150.

Milk protein is made up of 80% casein (BV 75) and 20% whey.

So I guess overall, you'd be better having egg whites for PWO then milk. Milk would be good for just before bedtime

I thought that WHOLE Egg protein was the one with the BV of 100 and that eggwhite protein was slightly less?

[F W Nietszche]

I thought that WHOLE Egg protein was the one with the BV of 100 and that eggwhite protein was slightly less?

I think the white was quite a bit lower, and I am pretty sure it doesn't have a complete amino acid profile.

[Tim_G]

Egg whites are absorbed very quickly, and I jsut read that whole eggs are absorbed slower because of the yolk. Don't remember if I read the whole egg info in a mag, or in some post on this site, but egg whites are absorbed very quickly, yes.

[secondsight]

Bottom line...
Whey is fastest...
then eggs...
then milk.
Right?

[Budhaka]

If you've read many nutrition/supplement related articles. You probably would've found out that Egg white protein has a Biological Value (BV) of 100. It was initially thought that egg white protein was the fastest absorbing protein available.

Until recent years where it was discovered that Whey had a BV (compared to egg white) of up to 150.

Milk protein is made up of 80% casein (BV 75) and 20% whey.

So I guess overall, you'd be better having egg whites for PWO then milk. Milk would be good for just before bedtime

BV has nothing to do with how fast it's absorbed. It's impossible to have a BV over 100.

[anorld]

BV has nothing to do with how fast it's absorbed. It's impossible to have a BV over 100.
SIM37, is that right?

[Skeleton]

BV has nothing to do with how fast it's absorbed. It's impossible to have a BV over 100.

Your wrong. Whey can have can yield percentage from 104 to 154 on the scale depending on the process used. SIM37 is 100% right.

[SIM37]

SIM37, is that right?

The others on the forum have answered that for me. It was thought that egg white protein was the one with the highest BV, so they assigned it 100. Then they did a test on whey and not wanting to "revise" this BV scale, it was just simply added on to it.

Another interesting fact is that whey was actually discarded during processing of food. Nowadays we know better.

[anorld]

so does BV imply absorbing speed?
and what about tuna's BV? is it faster than egg?

[Budhaka]

By Tom Venuto

June, 1999 | editorial -- Are protein supplements really better than protein foods?

...Many nutrition "experts" (read: people who sell supplements), state that there are distinct advantages of protein supplements (powders and amino acid tablets) over whole foods. For example, they argue that whey, a by-product of the cheese-making process, is a higher quality protein than most whole food sources. There are many different methods of determining protein quality, including biological value (BV), protein efficiency ratio (PER), Net Protein Utilization (NPU), chemical score, and protein digestibility corrected amino acid score (PDCAAS). If you have ever seen advertisements for protein powders and supplements, you have undoubtedly heard of one or more of these measures of protein quality.
BV is one of the most commonly used and is arguably, the best measure of a protein's quality. BV is based on how much of the protein consumed is actually absorbed and utilized by the body. The higher the amount of protein (nitrogen) that is actually retained, the greater the BV. If a protein has a BV of 100, it means that all of the protein absorbed has been utilized with none lost. Whole eggs score the highest of all foods with a BV of 100, while beans have a BV of only 49.

Protein quality is certainly an important issue, but it is one that has been enormously overstated and even distorted for marketing purposes. Whey protein is truly an excellent protein with a biological value at or near 100. Many advertisements list whey as having a BV between 104 and 157, but if you look in any nutrition textbook it will tell you that it is impossible to have a BV over 100. In "Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism," BV is defined as "a measure of nitrogen retained for growth and/or maintenance that is expressed as a percentage of nitrogen absorbed." When a protein supplement is listed as having a BV over 100, the company has intentionally manipulated the number for marketing purposes or unintentionally confused BV with another method of rating protein quality. Certain whey proponents claim that whey is "superior to whole egg" so the percentage sign on BV had to be dropped and the scale extended beyond 100. It was noted by bodybuilding writer Jerry Branium in IRONMAN magazine that in a study where the BV of whey was reported to be 157, the author confused BV with chemical score. Chemical score is a comparison of the amino acid pattern in an ideal reference protein to a test protein and therefore the number can exceed 100. 157 was actually the chemical score and not the BV.

.......
References
1) Groff, James, et al, Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism, West Publishing company, 1995.
2) Fruhbeck, Gema. Slow and fast dietary proteins. Nature, 391: 843-844
3) Boirie, Y. et al. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc National Acad Sci, 94: 14930-14935, 1997
4) Lemon, Peter, Protein and Exercise: update, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, Vol 19, No. 5, S179 - S190, 1987
5) Carraro, F., et at, Effect of exercise and recovery on muscle protein synthesis in human subjects. Amer Journal of physiology, 259: E470, 1990
6) Lemon, Peter, Is increased dietary protein necessary or beneficial for individuals with a physically active lifestyle? Nutrition reviews, 54:S 169-175, 1996 7) Bounous, G., et al, The immunoenhancing property of dietary whey protein concentrate. Clinical and Investigational Medicine, 11: 271-278. 1988.
8) Sadler, R., The benefits of dietary whey protein concentrate on the immune response and health. S Afr. J Dairy Sci, 24: No 24, 1992
9) Bounous, G., Dietary whey protein inhibits the development of dimethylhydrazine-induced malignancy. Clinical and Investigational Medicine, 12: 213-217, 1988
10) Bounous, G., et al, The biological activity of undenatured dietary whey protein; role of glutathione. Clinical and Investigational Medicine, 14: 4, 296-309, 1991
11) Netzer, Corinne. The Complete Book of Food Counts. Dell Publishing, 1997
12) Katch, Katch & McArdle, Exercise Physiology; Energy, Nutrition and Human Performance, Wiliams and Wilkins, 1996.

[Tim_G]

Lots of disinformation being posted. Thanks for the quote....^^^

[SIM37]

One of big cat's articles, an excerpt



Biological Value

Proteins are ranked according to Biological Values (BV), arbitrary numbers given to protein to show comparisons in their availability within the body. At the time the system was introduced eggs were given the highest BV of 100 because they are the most bio-available natural protein. Afterwards whey was isolated from milk and shown to have a higher BV, and depending on the process used can yield percentage from 104 to 154 on the scale.

BV scales are a useful tool in putting together a complete protein, but it pisses me off that it's being used as a sales-pitch by companies promoting their whey products. Obviously a high BV brings with it certain downsides. The easier it absorbs the faster it absorbs. The faster it absorbs the faster it's rendered useless within the body, which makes taking it in large amounts at once impossible. Some would have you take 50 grams of whey in one sitting, and I guarantee you 25 to 50 percent of that is being wasted. At the price of a decent whey protein Isolate that is plain insanity. So in this article I present you with your fast-track guide to protein consumption.

Whey Protein Isolate (max BV of 157)

The highest yield of protein currently available, it's a derivative of milk protein. Its short chains and peptides make it available for absorption within ten minutes of ingestion sometimes. It's kind of a protein booster. If you asked which protein is best to invest in WPI would be it. No sane nutritionist would tell you otherwise. But caution is the key. Taking in more than 30 grams at once is not advisable because of its short-lived half-life. The best way to counter this effect a bit is to mix it in milk and not water. As I explained in my last article the casein in milk protein slows down the digestion of the whey protein, which may give it more time to absorb. It's a bit of a time-release mechanism.

Whey is the best investment because of its capacity as a post-workout recovery supplement. That critical time after severe physical stress when the cells will act like a sponge and take in almost anything. The extreme hunger of the cells and the fast-acting properties of whey will make sure you use the best window for recovery to the fullest. If not, the body will hunt the stored reserves of nutrients and when on a diet for example that will cause them to rob other muscle-tissue of glutamine. So whey is the best protein, especially on a diet. It also supplies the most aminos bodybuilders use. Its unfortunate high cost however makes me advise you to use it sparingly. Whey protein is the only choice when on a diet however. When on low-carb diets whey can function as an alternate source of energy, sparing hard-earned muscle protein and glutamine stores within the body.

Whey Protein Concentrate (Max BV of 104)

This Protein was the first isolated whey, but with the emergence of Isolates, it has become perfectly useless. At only 4 points more on the BV scale it may be wiser to supplement with egg-protein, the preferred protein source of bodybuilders as early as the 30's. Whey concentrate has taken on a life of its own in the industry because most companies are too cheap to use all whey isolates, and it's used as sort of stuffing of protein, just so they can say they use only whey protein. The actual uses are slim. It's basically of a similar make-up as the Isolate version but less bio-available. If you find WPI too expensive though and you already eat a dozen eggs a day, it's better than nothing and its often a good buy in pure form, but those of you looking for professional gains should probably pass up on WPC.

Eggs (max BV of 100)

This is a whole egg we're talking about. If you were to take only the egg-white it would have a BV of 91. Eggs are versatile sources of very useful protein. As far as uses go, this may be even better than milk protein. You can eat fried eggs in the morning with breakfast, eat hardboiled eggs throughout the day (like fruit, all you do is peel them and eat them) and its liquid in a raw form so you can mix it in plenty of things. I'm not a big fan of consuming extreme amounts of eggs like some people because they fill you up and after the umpteenth hardboiled egg anyone feels like barfing.

Though I think you are a fool if you throw away all your yolks (they contain more protein, B-vitamins and trace minerals) it wouldn't be prudent to eat twelve a day. The yolks have a very taxing effect on your liver. Extremely toxic. So out of precaution, limit your egg yolks to three a day and take a couple of weeks break once in a while. But eggs should make up at least a percentage of your weekly protein intake.

Milk Protein (max BV of 91)

I already gave you my rant on milk protein, so I'll spare you. Suffice it to mention it is a perfect blend of casein and whey that may yield great results and because of its convenience should make up a large portion of your protein intake. The combination of casein and whey has been found to be the best protein source in meals. This is why almost all MRP's use the blend as the base for their mix of protein.

Meat Proteins (max BV of 80)

Though chicken seems to hold some kind of god-like status in bodybuilding circles, it's actually red meat that yields better results. Several studies have shown that people consuming red meat gained more mass than those consuming the two favorites in the sport: chicken and tuna. That doesn't mean you need to dismiss the other two, but personally I'm sick of chicken and I'm not a big fan of tuna. Nonetheless both sources are prime nutrition when dieting. Tuna and the white part of chicken are low-fat and high-protein. Plus they are more easily transformed into tasty snacks you can carry around anywhere. But that big juicy steak will still give you better gains.

A hot topic in this new-age, biologically concerned, overly worried about nothing kind of generation the question of whether or not vegetarians can be bodybuilders is often heard. The answer is yes. I've already named a number of vegetarian proteins and I'll name one more after this, but chances you'll be Mr. Olympia are slim. In fact winning local contests isn't for tomorrow. You'll have to work twice as hard and recuperate smarter. For the vegans there is no hope. I'm sorry.

I have to swallow a lot from health-conscious people about my diet and I take it like a man, but I do not take that **** from vegans. If there is one diet that is sure to land you in a hospital in the long-term, rob you of energy and diminish the quality of life its a vegan diet. For these people there is no hope. You're doomed to be small. Moreover if plants are all you eat, 80 percent or more of your diet is water. So don't judge me and mine , if you can't even take care of yourself. Meat contains all kinds essential aminos, not to mention creatine and other useful elements that most protein sources cannot supply. The only bad thing is that you are eating a lot, but have a low yield of nutrients. Most of the ingested material ends up in your stool because it doesn't contain nutrients. So obviously you shouldn't bet all your money on meat proteins.

Casein

Casein is the other protein that is isolated from milk. Casein is the perfect complement to whey, which is why I'm such a big advocate of milk protein which combines the two. Both stimulate protein synthesis in the muscle, naturally not both quite as strong. But the benefit is that the protein synthesized from casein is used more directly in muscle-building than that synthesized from whey, which is more readily used as an alternate source of energy (that's the reason you have to use enough carbs when supplementing with whey for bulking). The less chance you have of a protein being used as energy, the more carbs you use as energy. The more carbs you use, the less carbs stored as fat. So casein may prevent you getting fat too fast... one of the reasons casein may be better than whey.

Soy Protein

Lately the unhealthy lifestyles are taking on all kinds of shapes and forms and there seems to be dome bad blood between carnivores and herbivores. Having said my bit about vegans, I have to point out that the other extreme could be unhealthy too. Too many bodybuilders, myself included, have almost sworn off vegetables. This is of course only possible provided you get your daily vitamins and minerals from other sources.

Soy protein however, may be one reason to eat your vegetables. Soy alone is practically useless, but as an addition to an already rich protein spectrum it may serve a thousand uses. Its main use is protecting the cardiovascular system by lowering LDL (low-density lipoprotein) cholesterol. Bad cholesterol as you know is one of the leading causes in arterial diseases. In this aspect the vegetarian bodybuilder has a plus over the meat-eating bodybuilder because meat , and especially that all-important red meat, could increase LDL cholesterol. Of course I'm not letting vegans off the hook that easily.

I'm sure everyone that gets around in bodybuilding has come across some article or some account that speaks of recent studies that say a high amount of soy in your diet may lead to breast cancer, brain damage and infertility in boys. The result of a high amount of flavonoids within the protein strands that may mimic the actions of strong estrogens. Then again other compounds are considered safe that exert similar effects. So don't worry about soy being bad, just don't go overboard and don't make soy your main source of protein. As with the other proteins it has its merits, but as with anything, moderation is the key.



Full article at http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catprot.htm

[Tim_G]

The articles seem to contradict, one has references the other does not.

[Budhaka]

One of big cat's articles, an excerpt



Full article at http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catprot.htm

From that article...
"...Protein has been shown to have more effect when combined with Carbohydrates. This is why weight gainers are often more anabolic than pure protein powders."

He recommends weight gainers? WTF. How old is this article?

I'm just trying to say that maybe the info Big Cat got about the BV could have been false and he didn't knew it at the time, the info may have been fairly new back then. I mean, who would recommend gainers today besides the noobs? The article must be pretty old.

[Skeleton]

so does BV imply absorbing speed?
and what about tuna's BV? is it faster than egg?

Actually it means how easily it is absorbed which intern means it is absorbed faster.

[BeBig22]

Actually it means how easily it is absorbed which intern means it is absorbed faster.

No...BV is simply the quality of the protein. Whey has the highest BV but is absorbed very quickly...egg has the next highest but is absorbed slowly. It is not the same as speed.