Lonny's SAN Endotest Log

[Lonny]

I picked up some Endotest today due to being bored and getting a nice tax refund. And since i only have 1 month of school left, a pre-summer bulk is on the horizon. The only test-booster product i've been satisfied with has been Nutrabolics Hydrotest. Good results, but not enought to warrant purchasing it (as i was given it to test by nutrabolics. my review can be found through a search). I've used Tribex (2nd or 3rd generation formula) Tribestan, and a few Store Brand Tribs. I don't expect much from the SAN product but since i was given the Blaze to test, and hadn't tried any other SAN products, i thought it might be nice to try something else from them.

So i just took 3 caps, i'll be dosing 3 caps either 2 or 3 times a day, twice daily to start and work from there.

Update will come later today after my workout.

[sawastea]

I picked up some Endotest today due to being bored and getting a nice tax refund.

Don't you guys pay roughly 48% personal income tax in Canada? I was always curious on this.

[G.W. Hayduke]

I used Endotest at max dosing, 3x3, and got a very nice maple smell from it. Umm...

[Matt96teg]

I used Endotest at max dosing, 3x3, and got a very nice maple smell from it. Umm...
Same here.

[Lonny]

Don't you guys pay roughly 48% personal income tax in Canada? I was always curious on this.


Its around 30-40, theres lots of oppurtunity for tax breaks, and for that 30-40% you get free health care (not including prescriptions or private hospital rooms) but all the necessary free surgery you can need!

In a case like mine, being a university student, i end up paying no tax as my tuition and rent are added to my basic personal amount meaning whatever is taken off my paycheques throughout the year gets given back to me (within reason, $20k probably being the student amount before not getting some cash back).

As for full time employees, it is kind of a bitch getting almost half a paycheque taken by the government, but some does come back to you unless your making an unreasonable amount of money and not doing yourself any favors regarding tax breaks. 25% of charitable donations are given back to you, prescription costs as well as childcare can be used against your income, a few other things. I can't comment on property taxes. Here in ontario, 15% sales tax is quite a bitch, so your paying $.15 on top of every dollar except in the cases of whats considered staple goods, dairy being the only thing that comes to mind. 7% is provincial, 8% is federal or maybe its the other way around, and some stuff you only get charged 1 of them on. You get used to it after a while and learn to figure it out before getting to the cash register. it makes all those "pay no tax" sales all the more appealing though. I believe theres no Federal (GST) tax on supplements made in Canada, or it may be Provincial(PST).

Um yeah, that went a bit longer than expected.

[Lonny]

Same here.


I smell it in the bottle and caps, Even just touching the caps leaves the smell on my fingers. Its the same smell i found with Hydrotest except Hydrotest was sublingual so it was a bit more annoying to take. I find its more Cinamon than Maple, but i could be wrong.

I think i actually had something to say and add to the thread but damn Sawastea got me going on a tax rant and my mind is off.

C'est la vie.

[derekmac]

Looking forward to your review, Lonny.

[Lonny]

Nothing of note to report today, won't be going to the gym, i will be tommorow.

update afterwards/

[CHUCK DIESEL]

rep for the log, big claims in the ads

[FKAExodusD2]

I DARE you to open the capsule and spill the contents on your tongue. It reminded me of straight up cayene pepper powder.

[Lonny]

I DARE you to open the capsule and spill the contents on your tongue. It reminded me of straight up cayene pepper powder.


Actually i did open one of the pills to see where they are filled to. It wasn't as bad as it could've been, but had i not been experienced with the nutrabolics product, it definitely would've been a rude awakening. The smell is definitely starting to make me not enjoy popping the caps.

Energy levels are the same, sleep hasn't changed, i did wake up with morning wood this morning despite not having to take a piss. It easier easier to keep an erection up while not actually trying to.

Im having sex tonight so i'll see how that goes.

[nutrabolicsCURT]

How does this product compare to HydroTest?
Are you using it more for strength, lean body mass, or sexual purposes?

[Lonny]

How does this product compare to HydroTest?
Are you using it more for strength, lean body mass, or sexual purposes?


Im not looking for one thing in particular, just an overall review of it. Those are the effects i will be looking for, but i didn't buy it for any of those reasons alone.

Skin isn't any oiler, i had a monster sinus headache today so i didn't make it to the gym. i will tommorow and will get a good handle on energy levels in the gym as well as weights.

Sometime soon i may go back and read my Hydrotest review, do a bit of comparison day by day. So far im not terribly impressed, especially right off the heals of being quite pleased with Blaze.

[Thug9]

that's cool you doin a log, cuz my cousin told me to try it just yesterday. I also read bout it today, but it sounds like any other company tryin to make a buck. but you never know, so keep us informed. peace

[Stomp]

I tried Endotest last spring but had to stop after half a bottle because it gave me the worst case of acne I`ve ever had. And I`m almost forty...

[daveburton]

I tried Endotest last spring but had to stop after half a bottle because it gave me the worst case of acne I`ve ever had. And I`m almost forty...

Well, in all fairness, the Acne might be in indication of increased Steroidogenisis

[Lonny]

Finished working out a few hours ago. I noticed an increase in weights for a few excersizes. More energy while in the gym and my workout lasted 10 mins longer than usual.

No change in bodyweight so far, no extra oil on my skin, nothing of note with pumps or how i look.

Sex drive hasn't changed although sex does feel a bit more pleasurable.

[nutrabolicsCURT]

Does it list the protodioscin content in endotest?
And is this the NEW endotest formula, or the old one?

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Does it list the protodioscin content in endotest?
And is this the NEW endotest formula, or the old one?

You can go to the store here and answer all your questions this is a log.

[Lonny]

Does it list the protodioscin content in endotest?
And is this the NEW endotest formula, or the old one?

20%, and im not sure. as Chuck said, its the one listed on the site, so im assuming the new one.

I felt hungry when i woke up today for the first time in a while. I was able to recover quicker after sex than normal. Perhaps its starting to kick in?

[nutrabolicsCURT]

You can go to the store here and answer all your questions this is a log.

Actually, the store wont answer if he has the new version or the old one.

[Lonny]

Another day, no results of note. I just went back and re-read my Hydrotest thread, and looking back on it a year later, my thoughts haven't changed. I was definitely more impressed with it than i have been with Endotest.

No acne, no oily skin, poundage have not gone up much more than usual.

Im going to give it a few more days, but by the looks of it, i may end up taking it back and trying something "sure thing".

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Another day, no results of note.

Whats today....day 5.....not going to give it at least 10 days to "kick in."

[Lonny]

Whats today....day 5.....not going to give it at least 10 days to "kick in."


Its a 10-15 day supply, The first few days i was dosing twice daily, and now am doing 3.

Im not a proponent of test boosters at all, and had very high hopes for this one. Those hopes being to see some sort of result or effect. if i do end up returning it, i will most certainly be done with trib based test boosters.

[Lonny]

My skin has been pretty oily today, showered twice, used Oxy pads, still seems oily though. maybe its starting to kick in, kinda late though IMO.

On a somewhat related note, the past few days i've been feeling soreness in my knee joints. never had this before and its really annoying when i keep them bent for periods of time, or stretch them out. Hopefully its unrelated.

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Looking at your Hydro Test log it wasnt until day 5 until you saw any results.

You started on 1/31/04 i believe and made this post on 2/4/04

_______________________________________________

"Ok, i decided to take yesterday off to rest and recoup. I think it was a good idea because today i had a helluva workout.

I took 4 mls today when i woke up, and then 4 pre-workout. First off, i had a great day, i felt good all day long and had lots of energy, and my libido seemed high. I took the 4 mls before i left the house, and on my drive to the gym i kind of "felt it". Really energizing feeling, and i was really motivated.

Got into the gym and flew through my first few sets. Had a great pump, and i felt great. My best leg workout in weeks.

So i guess today was the first day that i actually noticed effects that you could attribute to higher test levels. I can't say for sure whether my test levels have increased, or if the supplement is effective but i can say that i am pleased with todays experience."
______________________

Now I am not saying it will ever "kick in" but you have to give supplements about 10 days, anything before day 10 can be a a placebo.

[Lonny]

Now I am not saying it will ever "kick in" but you have to give supplements about 10 days, anything before day 10 can be a a placebo.

Thats a pretty broad generalization i think. Unless your talking about one specific type of supplement (test booster). Is there an ingredient in particular you are talking about considering this product shares a few of the same ingredients as your diesel test, im assuming you may know something i do not? Anyway, why give a 10 day supply of something when it will take that 10 days before results are seen. And as i did say in my Hydrotest thread, i noticed an increase in appetite the first day, as well as a lack of concentration soon after taking it.

Heres my Hydrotest log if anyone is interested.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=217451&page=1&

Im not trying to discredit any supplement company here, nor am I trying to give credit when it is not due. Im just trying to give an unbiased review of a supplement.

[nutrabolicsCURT]

Now I am not saying it will ever "kick in" but you have to give supplements about 10 days, anything before day 10 can be a a placebo.

I am not sure how you can say this, Chuck. Most/All of our products you can feel working after the first dose;this is not a placebo, Chuck - I mean you use Niacin in some of your products and are you going to say the "flush" you feel immediately from Niacin is a placebo?

[CHUCK DIESEL]

I am not sure how you can say this, Chuck. Most/All of our products you can feel working after the first dose;this is not a placebo, Chuck - I mean you use Niacin in some of your products and are you going to say the "flush" you feel immediately from Niacin is a placebo?

I didnt say anything about nutrabolics. This guy is doing a SAN Endotest Log. Why are you making comments about nutrabolics products? You cant "feel" anything from one dose of a natural testosterone product that instant, you cannot feel anything from a 400mg injection of test. that day or that first few days so what are you talking about?

I use Niacinamide not niacin, Niacinamide is a "flush free" form of niacin. The flush someone feels is not niacin converting to Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (NAD). So any flushing has nothing to do with niacinamide "working" because its purpose is to produce NAD and help form GTF chromium.

That flushing is a dilation effect from Niacin, not seen with Niacinamide. Niacinamide isnt a flush form.

Where did you lean about supplements?

____________

Now back to endotest- I went to his log and it said he didnt see any results in terms of strength gain until day 5. Thats a fact, look at the log. I was saying he should wait until day 5-7 to see results form this product.

It would be best if you were not posting daily to his log on a product made by another company.

[CHUCK DIESEL]

Thats a pretty broad generalization i think. Unless your talking about one specific type of supplement (test booster). Is there an ingredient in particular you are talking about considering this product shares a few of the same ingredients as your diesel test, im assuming you may know something i do not? Anyway, why give a 10 day supply of something when it will take that 10 days before results are seen. And as i did say in my Hydrotest thread, i noticed an increase in appetite the first day, as well as a lack of concentration soon after taking it.

Heres my Hydrotest log if anyone is interested.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=217451&page=1&

Im not trying to discredit any supplement company here, nor am I trying to give credit when it is not due. Im just trying to give an unbiased review of a supplement.

Hey if it made you eat more from day one then I guess it was "working" but you must understand working is defined as achieving desired results. For instance hydro test is going to make you hungry, it has fenugreek (or how ever you spell it) it increases appetite. Endotest doesn’t. So don’t expect an increase in appetite. Now lack of concentration is good because it is increasing your acetylcholine levels which is a sign of a good test booster because increased acetylcholine decreases CNS stimulation and decreasing CNS stimulation will provide for a better environment for higher testosterone levels (or at least it may be lowering dopamine levels and increasing prolactin levels which lead to higher testosterone levels).

[G.W. Hayduke]

I'm gonna agree with Chuck on the "give it at least 10 days" thing. Almost every non-biased book one reads about health will mention how just about all natural supplements need to be used for a long period of time in order to get any sort of measurable benefits. Sure, ephedrine can be felt right away but that's different from actually getting any sort of results. Even ehpedrine must be used for several weeks before one can notice what it is doing for body recomp. I say 7-10 days is a good time frame to allow a supplement to elicit a "feel" and 30 days is a minimum time frame to allow most supplements to create some sort of measurable effect.

And Endotest does have fenugreek in it. That's why it makes you smell like maple.

[nutrabolicsCURT]

I didnt say anything about nutrabolics. This guy is doing a SAN Endotest Log. Why are you making comments about nutrabolics products? You cant "feel" anything from one dose of a natural testosterone product that instant, you cannot feel anything from a 400mg injection of test. that day or that first few days so what are you talking about?

I use Niacinamide not niacin, Niacinamide is a "flush free" form of niacin. The flush someone feels is not niacin converting to Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide (NAD). So any flushing has nothing to do with niacinamide "working" because its purpose is to produce NAD and help form GTF chromium.

That flushing is a dilation effect from Niacin, not seen with Niacinamide. Niacinamide isnt a flush form.

Where did you lean about supplements?

____________

Now back to endotest- I went to his log and it said he didnt see any results in terms of strength gain until day 5. Thats a fact, look at the log. I was saying he should wait until day 5-7 to see results form this product.

It would be best if you were not posting daily to his log on a product made by another company.

Chuck,
I didnt say you were referring to our products - but what i did say is that you cannot say all the effects people initially feel is a placebo, because that is not true.
Whether it is our supplements, niacin, ephedrine, yohimbe, caffeine, etc., many supps you take, and feel right away, are not placebo effects.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Lonny]

I'm gonna agree with Chuck on the "give it at least 10 days" thing. Almost every non-biased book one reads about health will mention how just about all natural supplements need to be used for a long period of time in order to get any sort of measurable benefits. Sure, ephedrine can be felt right away but that's different from actually getting any sort of results. Even ehpedrine must be used for several weeks before one can notice what it is doing for body recomp. I say 7-10 days is a good time frame to allow a supplement to elicit a "feel" and 30 days is a minimum time frame to allow most supplements to create some sort of measurable effect.

And Endotest does have fenugreek in it. That's why it makes you smell like maple.


Ok, well its almost day 11, and im about out of pills so if its about to start working then its right on time for me to buy another bottle which i won't be doing.

As for the fenugreek, im assuming "Fenusterols" come from fenugreek?

[Lonny]

Hey if it made you eat more from day one then I guess it was "working" but you must understand working is defined as achieving desired results. For instance hydro test is going to make you hungry, it has fenugreek (or how ever you spell it) it increases appetite. Endotest doesn’t. So don’t expect an increase in appetite. Now lack of concentration is good because it is increasing your acetylcholine levels which is a sign of a good test booster because increased acetylcholine decreases CNS stimulation and decreasing CNS stimulation will provide for a better environment for higher testosterone levels (or at least it may be lowering dopamine levels and increasing prolactin levels which lead to higher testosterone levels).

I guess i should give you my exact definition for "working" before starting any reviews so you don't get the wrong idea. I didn't notice any increase in weights while on it, i noticed libido boosting effects but i could also attribute that to Placebo or the fact that the snow just melted here in Canada and girls are walking around without bulky coats on.

I get the impression you have something on your chest that you want to either get off or ask me, so i would really appreciate it if you did so instead of grilling me on my log while pretending that you have no Ulterior motives. And if im wrong and you are really just this inquisitive i apologize in advance. But calling me out and trying to make me look like an idiot is not something i would expect from you. I understand that you have your own test booster coming out so i assume your interest in my thread stems from that, but i can't seem to put together why you are on me at every single post.

[CHUCK DIESEL]

I get the impression you have something on your chest that you want to either get off or ask me, so i would really appreciate it if you did so instead of grilling me on my log while pretending that you have no Ulterior motives. And if im wrong and you are really just this inquisitive i apologize in advance. But calling me out and trying to make me look like an idiot is not something i would expect from you. I understand that you have your own test booster coming out so i assume your interest in my thread stems from that, but i can't seem to put together why you are on me at every single post.

I dont have anything I am wanting to get off my chest. I could have told you why you shouldnt expect 2 much from this product before you started it. I have been noticing the lack of any logs for any test products so thats probably why I read this one. I didnt try to make you look like an idiot. I was just reading and I think I remember at about day 5 you were saying that is is not "working." I wanted to konw what is "working" to you. The problem with most products is that they are 2 week supplies. You have to look at the directions, not the price and say ok, if this 35 bucks, but last 2 weeks, I better pick up 2 bottles.

Its like using creatine for 2 weeks.

Anyway I am glad you did a log, to many people here post but dont do logs, or any type of review. Didnt mean for you to think I was tryiing to say you dont know what you are talking about, some people can tell if a product is working in 5 days, only you know your body.

[G.W. Hayduke]

Ok, well its almost day 11, and im about out of pills so if its about to start working then its right on time for me to buy another bottle which i won't be doing.

As for the fenugreek, im assuming "Fenusterols" come from fenugreek?
I think fenugreek works great as a mild test enhancer on its own. It's also dirt cheap. A bottle costs like $4. Plus it's good for appetite stimulationa and in controlling blood sugar. Right now I'm using NOW Foods Fenugreek and Thyme at about 1400mg fenugreek and 600mg thyme per day (4 capsules).

But the best natural test boost I ever "felt" was from using bulk long jack and bulk avena sativa. Supposedly the long jack was 100:1 so a pretty high concentration. I don't know what the avena sativa was. For at least 2 months at a high dosage it costed me about $20.

[Lonny]

I dont have anything I am wanting to get off my chest. I could have told you why you shouldnt expect 2 much from this product before you started it. I have been noticing the lack of any logs for any test products so thats probably why I read this one. I didnt try to make you look like an idiot. I was just reading and I think I remember at about day 5 you were saying that is is not "working." I wanted to konw what is "working" to you. The problem with most products is that they are 2 week supplies. You have to look at the directions, not the price and say ok, if this 35 bucks, but last 2 weeks, I better pick up 2 bottles.

Its like using creatine for 2 weeks.

Anyway I am glad you did a log, to many people here post but dont do logs, or any type of review. Didnt mean for you to think I was tryiing to say you dont know what you are talking about, some people can tell if a product is working in 5 days, only you know your body.

My sincerest apologies then Chuck. I completely misunderstood your intentions, and made an assumption and for that im sorry. I just felt as though you were trying to catch me on something but i was quite sure i knew what i was doing and talking about with test booster so i took offense to your questioning me. I don't usually look for stuff to be working. I look at the claims as well as look at the ingredients and look for what the ingredients are supposed to do, as well as how effective people have found them to be, and then look for these things while using the product. i probably should've been more label concious but i expected for the price ($50 can) i would've gotten enough to see the cycle through, normally test boosters i've found to be longer than 10 days. I didn't even think to way out the servings to time period.

As for the 10 day thing, i usually see things a bit quicker, as you said "day 5". Creatine, Nitrous, Trimax, fish oil, fenugreek, vitex. I can't really think of many other supplements i've taken. I picked a test booster because as you said, there aren't many reviews of them around. When i buy supplements, i buy them according to whether a review is needed. Whats the point in reviewing something that people have seen hundreds of reviews for before. SAN Endotest seemed like a good idea as i was starting a bulk, and wanted something new to try. I though being standardized for another aspect of fenugreek instead of 4-hydroxy was interesting. And the selection at the store i was at was minimal. It was either a test booster or a NO product, or a protein powder. So i went with the most interesting one.

[Lonny]

I think fenugreek works great as a mild test enhancer on its own. It's also dirt cheap. A bottle costs like $4. Plus it's good for appetite stimulationa and in controlling blood sugar. Right now I'm using NOW Foods Fenugreek and Thyme at about 1400mg fenugreek and 600mg thyme per day (4 capsules).

But the best natural test boost I ever "felt" was from using bulk long jack and bulk avena sativa. Supposedly the long jack was 100:1 so a pretty high concentration. I don't know what the avena sativa was. For at least 2 months at a high dosage it costed me about $20.


I may try bulk Long Jack next time.

I agree on the fenugreek. $4 a bottle and thats around 50 grams. mind you its unstandardized for anything, but i definitely notice appetite stimulation while using it.

[G.W. Hayduke]

I see you've used Vitex agnus. How did that work out? It's also pretty cheap as a solo herb but I'm a little wary about using something that goes by the name of Chaste Berry.

[Lonny]

I see you've used Vitex agnus. How did that work out? It's also pretty cheap as a solo herb but I'm a little wary about using something that goes by the name of Chaste Berry.


And if you buy the right brand it is sometimes called "PMS Formula". I've used it a few times. I find it increases libido and "recharge" time. increase in orgasm volume. its not something i buy unless i know i have a whole lotta sex ahead of me.

Its definitely worth reading up on. Try to read both sides of the arguments. For and against using it, Anabolic Minds has some good info, and im sure Avant does too. A lot of companies use it as an anti-estrogen.