Creatine bad for heart?

[Andy2590]

I went to a GNC with my dad last week to get some creatine for the first time. When we got to the check out the lady said that docters aren't sure, but since creatine puts water in your muscles and your heart is a muscle, then it is bad for the heart. Also they won't sell it to you if you're under 18 unless you have parental permission. My dad decided to not let me get it so I'm just using whey protein and Amino Burst 3000. What do you guys think about this. Later

[nitr0x2]

false



its perfectly healthy

[i,scorpius]

If The Counter Person Is Not Pumped,disregard All Advice!!!

[rmat16]

My first time buying creatine, I bought it by myself. I was 15 at the time. And that lady is full of sh*t as far as I am concerned. That is one of the most ignorant, misinformed statements i've heard in a while.

[PowerSwede]

I went to a GNC with my dad last week to get some creatine for the first time. When we got to the check out the lady said that docters aren't sure, but since creatine puts water in your muscles and your heart is a muscle, then it is bad for the heart. Also they won't sell it to you if you're under 18 unless you have parental permission. My dad decided to not let me get it so I'm just using whey protein and Amino Burst 3000. What do you guys think about this. Later

Creatine is good for your heart, without creatine in your heart you would die.

Supplementing creatine puts more creatine in your muscles, your heart is a muscle so it will get more creatine and thus more water, it's not going to matter though since the amount is so small (~0.5g).

Theoretically creatine would make the heart stronger but i am not aware of any specific studies to show any effects on the heart as a result of creatine supplementation.

What i do know is that there are many, many studies that have shown the safety of creatine supplementation, it's not going to hurt you.

[stumpman8]

never underestimate the ignorance of someone who wears a nametag at GNC

[F W Nietszche]

The smooth muscles don't become saturated with creatine (well not to the extent of the skeletal muscles), so I don't think there would be any negative cardiac hypertrophy.

PowerSwede: An enlarged heart as a whole is not something you work for. Although ventricle hypertrophy is what you work for.

Don't quote me on anything I said, because I am by no means an expert and just trying to remember some stuff that I read while adding general knowledge.

As for the studies, I wouldn't say a couple years is conclusive for any medical testing. To my knowledge that have yet to be a long term investigation of increased creatine dosages on the human body. (again don't quote me if I am wrong)

[PowerSwede]

The smooth muscles don't become saturated with creatine (well not to the extent of the skeletal muscles), so I don't think there would be any negative cardiac hypertrophy.

PowerSwede: An enlarged heart as a whole is not something you work for. Although ventricle hypertrophy is what you work for.

Don't quote me on anything I said, because I am by no means an expert and just trying to remember some stuff that I read while adding general knowledge.

As for the studies, I wouldn't say a couple years is conclusive for any medical testing. To my knowledge that have yet to be a long term investigation of increased creatine dosages on the human body. (again don't quote me if I am wrong)

I was referring to creatines ability to increase contraction force (which is why i wrote stronger), not to size increases (which are going to be so minimal that it is unimportant).

I have seen a study which monitored subjects during five years, you can safely say that if five years of continuous use does not show any adverse effects at all, it's safe.

[THESHAWNRAYWAY]

I just read an article in a medical magazine which pretty much states that creatine is pretty much the most tested and useful suppliment around. Creatine has been proven to be safe and effective in promoting the creation of cellular energy, supporting the increase of muscle size and strength, as well as supporting the functions of a healthy brain, along with other body tissues. It says you can create a ''Dynamic Trio'' by combining creatine with Whey and Glutamine ( as if we didnt know), to offer powerful anabolic support.

[PowerSwede]

I just read an article in a medical magazine which pretty much states that creatine is pretty much the most tested and useful suppliment around. Creatine has been proven to be safe and effective in promoting the creation of cellular energy, supporting the increase of muscle size and strength, as well as supporting the functions of a healthy brain, along with other body tissues. It says you can create a ''Dynamic Trio'' by combining creatine with Whey and Glutamine ( as if we didnt know), to offer powerful anabolic support.

What medical magazine says oral intake of Glutamine (in combination with whey which contains glutamine peptides) is beneficial?

[F W Nietszche]

What medical magazine says oral intake of Glutamine (in combination with whey which contains glutamine peptides) is beneficial?

Medical magazines are as bought off by the drug companies as bodybuilding magazines are bought off by companies like muscletech.

[PowerSwede]

Medical magazines are as bought off by the drug companies as bodybuilding magazines are bought off by companies like muscletech.

Unfortunantly that is very true, you need to look behind the articles and review any references yourself, most of the time it comes down to what is real and what is percieved as real by the article writer.

[Rockclimr19]

I went to a GNC

Why would you go to GNC? GNC=ripoff

[BarbellSquat]

now people think creatine is safe...i do too. But back in the days, people thought that steroid was safe too or they didnt have any proof of why its bad..

u guys think some day creatine will have a negatif effect..when we get older that is

[cardinalhealth]

Why would you go to GNC? GNC=ripoff
It's not always a ripoff. Two weeks ago I bought ON 100% there for 34.99, a mere 11 cents more than the store here.

[Andy2590]

My dad still won't let me get it. I'm going to try another place and if they let me get it then I will. I'll just put it in one of my old protein cans and he won't know the difference. I hate to do that but he just won't even listen to what I'm saying about how it is safe. Thanks for all of your input. It was greatly appreciated. Later

[LatsMakeTheMan]

Stupidest salesperson EVER.

She talked you out of buying their product, AND she's seriously misinformed. What a stupid ass.

[F W Nietszche]

It's not always a ripoff. Two weeks ago I bought ON 100% there for 34.99, a mere 11 cents more than the store here.

You got ripped off man, last month I got me a bucket for $25... :)

[cardinalhealth]

You got ripped off man, last month I got me a bucket for $25... :)
haha, from here or from GNC?

edit: obviously not from here because it costs $28.89 and the cheapest shipping is $5.99

[josh689]

^^ best protein powder is Higher Power's 100 Whey here on bb.com ..

19.99 8)

[nooneno12325265]

you already have creatine in your muscle all your doing is adding more, it is completly safe, what that stupid bitch at gnc should have done is offered her sources i bet all she would have said was....ummm well its just what i heard....ignorance in adults its sickening

[Clemenza]

I was referring to creatines ability to increase contraction force (which is why i wrote stronger), not to size increases (which are going to be so minimal that it is unimportant).

I have seen a study which monitored subjects during five years, you can safely say that if five years of continuous use does not show any adverse effects at all, it's safe.

You were referring to creatine's ability to increase contraction force, which may be true... but in the long term is this safe?

And on another not... yes people 30 years ago thought steroids were safe... but they did not have the medical reasearch advancements we do today which allows us to have better knowledge and understanding of supplements than they did back then. So I trust most of these creatine research studies in that they are true.

[F W Nietszche]

You were referring to creatine's ability to increase contraction force, which may be true... but in the long term is this safe?

And on another not... yes people 30 years ago thought steroids were safe... but they did not have the medical reasearch advancements we do today which allows us to have better knowledge and understanding of supplements than they did back then. So I trust most of these creatine research studies in that they are true.

Steroids are no more dangerous than eating a pizza and a bucket of fried chicken a day. And we don't see people banning oily food do we?

[F W Nietszche]

you already have creatine in your muscle all your doing is adding more, it is completly safe, what that stupid bitch at gnc should have done is offered her sources i bet all she would have said was....ummm well its just what i heard....ignorance in adults its sickening

That is not the reason why it is safe. We have testosterone and HGH in our blood, it is not good to intake vast amounts of it for no reason other than trying to gain muscle.

[PowerSwede]

You were referring to creatine's ability to increase contraction force, which may be true... but in the long term is this safe?

And on another not... yes people 30 years ago thought steroids were safe... but they did not have the medical reasearch advancements we do today which allows us to have better knowledge and understanding of supplements than they did back then. So I trust most of these creatine research studies in that they are true.

Yes it is safe, the difference is so small that it is negligible, running would kill you if it wasn't safe and we all know that strenghtening your heart through excersise (the end result is basically the same, only much more pronounced with excersise) isn't something that is bad for your heart.

[PowerSwede]

That is not the reason why it is safe. We have testosterone and HGH in our blood, it is not good to intake vast amounts of it for no reason other than trying to gain muscle.

It is one of the reasons why it is safe, the other reasons is the effect on your system as a whole, while overloading on creatine (which is what you do if you supplement creatine) does increase muscle size and cell volume, it does not affect your lipid levels or your hormone levels (to any significant degree) and the waste product is completely safe and excreted just like the creatinine your body produces every day for your entire life.

And contrary to popular belief, there is no feedback mechanism with creatine, so if you ever hear anyone talking about how creatine supplementation leads to degradation of the "creatine receptors" tell him not to worry since there is no such thing as a "creatine receptor".

[nooneno12325265]

btw F W Nietszche did i say to take vast amounts? thats why u follow the intake that is given thats is provided on the product, before u go saying **** like that check what i said, no place in that small paragraph did i say overload urself with it, and its obvious we have test and hgh in our body thats totally irrelavent to the conversation please stay on task rather then trying to sound right all the time

[BringnIt]

This thread makes me sad...

[BringnIt]

You guys realize that they give creatine to patients with heart disease, right?

[Peter LeDrew]

It's terrible the crappy advice or misinformation that people in stores like GNC feel they have to spill out. The salespeople drive me nuts. I have more knowledge than 100 GNC staff put together from what I have been told by them when I visit. I just don't bother to tell them they have no idea what they're talking about. They're just salespeople who aren't making much money anyway... and they don't even have to have an interest to get a job there.
The medical magazine I'm almost certain TheShawRayWay is talking about is Life Extension which I bought the other day. Now that's a magazie GNC people need to study if they want to learn something. And you don't need to buy the magazine to read the articles every month... go to lef.org and you can find some of the best nutritional/supplement advice that is backed by science and research studies, not what some salesperson says. All they talk about is usually backed by the scientifc reference to support their articles.
The latest issue talks about the mult-faceted benefits of creatine... not just for muscle health, but we're talking brain, heart etc... studies now show it may prevent neurodegenerative diseases such as huntington's and maybe others... a recent study showed it reduced inflammation big time for hard-working athlete. Inflammation is now looked at by the mainstream medical community as one of the prime causes of heart disease, alzheimers, aging, etc...
There's no doubt about it, if creatine was a drug patented and sold by a drug company, it would cost 1000% more than it does now. And the profits and uses would be impressive to say the least.
I wish creatine was available to me when I was younger as an athlete and lifter.... I don't think there is an age too young. It's a natural nutrient found in the muscle of other animals so we get a good dose in red meat, about 2g. The dose should be sensible as anymore than 2-5g at once is likely wasted and loading is not needed. You just have to keep your bodies creatine pool topped off.
Personally I use about 5g split before and after workouts... and don't take it on non-workout days.
The best thing about creatine is it works and it can enhance not only anaerobic muscle performance, but also helps the brain in its efforts when studying or working hard also. *There's a study showing better memory for young creatine users.
You don't need to fall victim to poor advice if you learn to do your own research on pubmed... or find good advice from knowledgeable people like lef.org or bodybuilding.com articles. Or you can always ask me a question because If I don't know the answer I usually can find it.
You DO have to be a little skeptical when a company is sellling products, but pubmed is all about the scientifc studies done without bias.
Andy, show your dad this post and go to lef.org and click on this months magazine or simply click the link below to read the anti-aging benefits of creatine..... maybe then you AND your dad will both start using creatine together! Just buy it from a site like bodybuilding.com or someplace where they actually know what they're talking about.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/apr2005_report_creatine_01.htm
Best of luck and let me know what transpires.

[toughnuts]

Get this, I gave my step bro some AST Micronized Creatine for Christmas,1000 grams, and his PE teacher was telling him and his friends how terrible it is for you. So he sold it to my dad (keep in mind I live in a different state than them). People piss me off, I hate dumbasses, but I guess ignorance is bliss, if you want to be small and weak that is:D.

[Clemenza]

It's terrible the crappy advice or misinformation that people in stores like GNC feel they have to spill out. The salespeople drive me nuts. I have more knowledge than 100 GNC staff put together from what I have been told by them when I visit. I just don't bother to tell them they have no idea what they're talking about. They're just salespeople who aren't making much money anyway... and they don't even have to have an interest to get a job there.
The medical magazine I'm almost certain TheShawRayWay is talking about is Life Extension which I bought the other day. Now that's a magazie GNC people need to study if they want to learn something. And you don't need to buy the magazine to read the articles every month... go to lef.org and you can find some of the best nutritional/supplement advice that is backed by science and research studies, not what some salesperson says. All they talk about is usually backed by the scientifc reference to support their articles.
The latest issue talks about the mult-faceted benefits of creatine... not just for muscle health, but we're talking brain, heart etc... studies now show it may prevent neurodegenerative diseases such as huntington's and maybe others... a recent study showed it reduced inflammation big time for hard-working athlete. Inflammation is now looked at by the mainstream medical community as one of the prime causes of heart disease, alzheimers, aging, etc...
There's no doubt about it, if creatine was a drug patented and sold by a drug company, it would cost 1000% more than it does now. And the profits and uses would be impressive to say the least.
I wish creatine was available to me when I was younger as an athlete and lifter.... I don't think there is an age too young. It's a natural nutrient found in the muscle of other animals so we get a good dose in red meat, about 2g. The dose should be sensible as anymore than 2-5g at once is likely wasted and loading is not needed. You just have to keep your bodies creatine pool topped off.
Personally I use about 5g split before and after workouts... and don't take it on non-workout days.
The best thing about creatine is it works and it can enhance not only anaerobic muscle performance, but also helps the brain in its efforts when studying or working hard also. *There's a study showing better memory for young creatine users.
You don't need to fall victim to poor advice if you learn to do your own research on pubmed... or find good advice from knowledgeable people like lef.org or bodybuilding.com articles. Or you can always ask me a question because If I don't know the answer I usually can find it.
You DO have to be a little skeptical when a company is sellling products, but pubmed is all about the scientifc studies done without bias.
Andy, show your dad this post and go to lef.org and click on this months magazine or simply click the link below to read the anti-aging benefits of creatine..... maybe then you AND your dad will both start using creatine together! Just buy it from a site like bodybuilding.com or someplace where they actually know what they're talking about.
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2005/apr2005_report_creatine_01.htm
Best of luck and let me know what transpires.

Great post Peter. Thanks for the article.

[Peter LeDrew]

No problem, Clemenza.
I've got an encylopedia of nutrition/supplement knowledge up in my brain and I spend way too much time researching just for my interest and use... hasn't done much good financially, but I'm glad I can help others out regardless. Learning where to find good advice and using supplements backed by significant research is a good way to get on your way to building a bigger & healthier body.
Just logged on to this awesome site so I'll be posting every once in awhile.
Seeing Patrick Arnold posting here along with other respected supplement gurus just blows me away. That's so cool.
That's like interacting with Michael Jordan or Magic on a basketball forum!!
Hope to see more guys like Patrick around here with the balls to use their real names and post their views on supplementation.
Oh and Patrick, if you happen to read this and need a good Ergopharm rep who interacts regularly with gym members in my area and talks the talk & walks the walk, so to speak, pm me!

Pete

[Cerulean]

Steroids are no more dangerous than eating a pizza and a bucket of fried chicken a day. And we don't see people banning oily food do we?
Both will give ya moobs though.

[Peter LeDrew]

And and pizza & a bucket of fried chicken everday doesn't sound so healthy either...lol

[PunDogg]

I went to a GNC with my dad last week to get some creatine for the first time. When we got to the check out the lady said that docters aren't sure, but since creatine puts water in your muscles and your heart is a muscle, then it is bad for the heart. Also they won't sell it to you if you're under 18 unless you have parental permission. My dad decided to not let me get it so I'm just using whey protein and Amino Burst 3000. What do you guys think about this. Later

as a GNC Ownwer, they should fire that person right away, i would let the manger know that they have a stupid, idiotic clerk working for them. Creatine great for your body. It is on the most researched supplements out there, and everything says it is great.

Dogg

[Skoorbmax]

If you're going to hide it, make sure you hide it well, because your dad may check in your protein can, especially if you've mentioned how much you want it.

As a parent I can understand his concern. I was 16 too, and the LAST thing on my mind was side effects of supplements. I had a hunger for some serious muscle, and I didn't care much about consequences. I don't know you, but when you're older (like me!) it becomes apparent to an intellligent person that another 30 lbs on one's bench press is not worth organ damage, something the people in the steroids section of this forum have not yet come to terms with. Of course they'd probably scream at me if I said it there.

Anyway, I think creatine is one of the most, if not the most studied supplement. I have long since stopped bothering to read up on its side effects, but last time I did there were no health-compromising effects noted in any of the studies that had been done, and almost ten years later I think that's still the case.

The beauty of creatine is that it's not just safe (as far as science can tell so far), but also that it works. So, while you avoid possible problems related to other supplements, you also derive excellent benefits from its use.

That said, I don't use it much personally because it's still possible that super long-term use can hurt somebody to some extent, but more than that I don't like the "temporary" benefits it offers. I seem to lose strength after stopping it and I hate that. Nonetheless, I'm still going to hit it up for a few weeks before going on vacation this summer, to help some muscle size before the beach ;)

[Peter LeDrew]

Hey Skoorbmax dude,

You said: "I seem to lose strength after stopping it and I hate that."

Of course you will, because you're losing your creatine-muscle stores and that will equate to a reduction in anaerobic capacity & subsequent strength.
It usually takes at least 10 or more weeks for that to become noticable if your muscles were saturated in the first place.
BTW: don't load up... you're wasting excess when you load because you'll only absorb so much at once... studies show 5gm/day over a month will effectively raise your stores without the wasted product and conversion to creatinine... and should in theory be kinder to your kidneys!!
Do what I do... take 5-10grms monohydrate form on workout days post workout with insulin sensitizers and a whey+dextrose mix. Insulean is a product I would endorse for improving insulin function.
Why?
Creatine is absorbed better into the muscle cells after exercise like a sponge the cells will take in aminos', creatine, glucose, vitamins & minerals and other nutrients to begin the recovery process.
Insulin is an important storage hormone that will shuttle these very nutrients into the muscle cells so raise it with whey & Dextrose after exercise and improve its action with insulin sensitizers like insulean.
My fav. insulin sensitizers include, cinnamon extract, R-LA or the newer K-r-LA which doesn't polymerize (I'll explain later), high biotin + chromium picolinate (work better together), Gymnema Syvestre, Bitter Melon, apple cider vinegar, cocoa (dark chocolate) can find in chocolate Whey!, green tea extract, Banaba extract (corosolic acid) and D-pinitol.
And I'm looking for others... I've been doing this for years, acknowleging the potent anabolic effects of insulin.

[Andrew99]

Creatine monohydrate has a known side effect of causing water retention. Anything which causes water retention raises blood pressure. Could there be some basis for a concern where blood pressure is an issue?

[Clemenza]

take creatine and get your blood pressure checked. i've done it and had no problems.

[F W Nietszche]

If you're going to hide it, make sure you hide it well, because your dad may check in your protein can, especially if you've mentioned how much you want it.

As a parent I can understand his concern. I was 16 too, and the LAST thing on my mind was side effects of supplements. I had a hunger for some serious muscle, and I didn't care much about consequences. I don't know you, but when you're older (like me!) it becomes apparent to an intellligent person that another 30 lbs on one's bench press is not worth organ damage, something the people in the steroids section of this forum have not yet come to terms with. Of course they'd probably scream at me if I said it there.

Anyway, I think creatine is one of the most, if not the most studied supplement. I have long since stopped bothering to read up on its side effects, but last time I did there were no health-compromising effects noted in any of the studies that had been done, and almost ten years later I think that's still the case.

The beauty of creatine is that it's not just safe (as far as science can tell so far), but also that it works. So, while you avoid possible problems related to other supplements, you also derive excellent benefits from its use.

That said, I don't use it much personally because it's still possible that super long-term use can hurt somebody to some extent, but more than that I don't like the "temporary" benefits it offers. I seem to lose strength after stopping it and I hate that. Nonetheless, I'm still going to hit it up for a few weeks before going on vacation this summer, to help some muscle size before the beach ;)


My parents don't seem to give a ****, they said that I shouldn't get into supplements, but then there there are random bottles lying around and they haven't said anything.

[PowerSwede]

Creatine monohydrate has a known side effect of causing water retention. Anything which causes water retention raises blood pressure. Could there be some basis for a concern where blood pressure is an issue?

No, creatine supplementation does not affect blood pressure.



Acute creatine loading increases fat-free mass, but does not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine, or CK activity in men and women.

Mihic S, MacDonald JR, McKenzie S, Tarnopolsky MA. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2000 Feb;32(2):291-6.


Creatine monohydrate (CrM) administration may enhance high intensity exercise performance and increase body mass, yet few studies have examined for potential adverse effects, and no studies have directly considered potential gender differences. PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of acute creatine supplementation upon total and lean mass and to determine potential side effects in both men and women. METHODS: The effect of acute CrM (20 g x d(-1) x 5 d) administration upon systolic, diastolic, and mean BP, plasma creatinine, plasma CK activity, and body composition was examined in 15 men and 15 women in a randomized, double-blind experiment. Additionally, ischemic isometric handgrip strength was measured before and after CrM or placebo (PL). RESULTS: CrM did not affect blood pressure, plasma creatinine, estimated creatinine clearance, plasma CK activity, or handgrip strength (P > 0.05). In contrast, CrM significantly increased fat-free mass (FFM) and total body mass (P < 0.05) as compared with PL, with no changes in body fat. The observed mass changes were greater for men versus women. CONCLUSIONS: These findings suggest that acute CrM administration does not affect blood pressure, renal function, or plasma CK activity, but increases FFM. The effect of CrM upon FFM may be greater in men as compared with that in women.

[Peter LeDrew]

And it doesn't cause water retention!!
see here:
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=326

[CONTROLLED LABS]

never trust the employees at the local stores, creatine is perfectly fine for you.

[Andy2590]

The lady who gave me the info in the GNC was the person in charge I think. She is always there. I havn't got any yet. I'm still trying to convince my dad to let me try it once (as in one tub of the powder) and then see where it goes from there. He seems like he is starting to come around a little. If he doesn't by this summer I might try and get some, I'm not sure yet. Thanks for all of your help. Later

[PowerSwede]

And it doesn't cause water retention!!
see here:
http://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=326

Yes it does, it draws water into your muscles, the bloating effect (subcutaneous water retention) is something many people have said they experienced on mono, personally i have never noticed it though and i can't figure out how this would happens since creatine is not stored there.