Our KIDNEY are overworking

[savoy]

Our KIDNEY are overworking caused by Whey protain or any other extra supplements that we're eating !
I heard from my friend who checkup by the physician,and the result shown that his kidney is overworking, he said one reason is "whey".

Really? Do I need to worry about this?
Any other supplements affect us like this?
Any one has an idea about this?

thanks.

PS: i'm not a native English, pls accept my apology for some mistake.

[kyle04]

I actually wonder about this aswell... I have a high protein diet and maybe consume 50g of whey a day... while i was sick 2 weeks ago they did a urine dipstick test and i had +1 on protein in my urine... not enough to cause alarm but still enough to wonder if this whole high protein is okay.....

[BringnIt]

Tell me where your friend's quack physician lives and I'll show that fool the error of his "whey"s. It would take extreme, extreme amounts of protein to cause damage to your kidneys and even then it would be the amount of protein, not the source. To claim your friend's kidney damage is the result of whey protein is a blatant lie and his physician should be drawn-and-quartered, damn it!

[KingOfChaos]

I don't have to worry then...because I piss 60 ****ing times a day!

[mommykuce]

Everyone's body is different, but one way you can avoid problems is to drink adequate amounts of water. When consuming large amounts of protein your body can have sort of a buildup of it which in turn can cause kidney stones which are made up of protein (it is not specifically any type of protein), but will not cause any kind of damage. This is a common side affect for competitors from the last few days before a competition when they dehydrate themselves but are still consuming a lot of protein. But this can happen also from things such as sodium and oxylates. Drinking enough water, and more important having adequate urine output will help to flush out waste.

[Scitronix]

Yes, there are studies done that high protien does put stress on ur kidneys. Basically it comes down to a decision. You can either eat normal and not risk it or take a risk and down alot of protien like bodybuilders do. Im not talking out of my a** because i have 1 kidney and have chosen to eat alot of protien and put stress on it(surgery). Bodybuilding is very important to me. I have done my research and have to come to my own conclusion. It's your choice...

[bofeity]

Yes, there are studies done that high protien does put stress on ur kidneys. Basically it comes down to a decision. You can either eat normal and not risk it or take a risk and down alot of protien like bodybuilders do. Im not talking out of my a** because i have 1 kidney and have chosen to eat alot of protien and put stress on it(surgery). Bodybuilding is very important to me. I have done my research and have to come to my own conclusion. It's your choice...

Loss due to kidney donation, other problems? Sorry to hear about it.

[secondsight]

Why not do a kidney cleanse every 6-12 months. This will help flush fat and toxins from your body and clean our your kidneys. There are many herbs out there that will help cleanse the kidney like celery seed, dandelion, marshmallow, etc...

However if you suffer from Chronic Kidney Disease the use of herbal supplements may be unsafe. Please consult your physican.

[Vigor]

I fast once a year for several days to clean things out, that along with seeing your doctor occasionaly is a good start to keeping everything healthy

[Brinn]

I'm of the opinion that these kinds of basic supplementation does not overwork the kidneys. For most people, one kidney is more than enough to do the job of filtering out waste. Two kidneys is overkill for the vast majority of us.

[rock4185]

I had a nutrition teacher say that whey is really hard on the kidneys in high doses becasue whey has a lot of nitrogen, anyone ever hear anything like that before?

[artaxerxes]

yes, huge protein intakes will hurt your kidneys, but its a risk you take to get a better looking body, and as long as it isn't long term, the effects should be reversible.

One of the kidney's functions is to remove nitrogen waste in the form of urea, and the more protein you eat, the more nitrogen you'll have to get rid of.

and to those who say huge protein intake on the order of 200 or so grams a day doesn't hurt your kidneys, please list your rationale

[Brinn]

Your kidneys are very good at getting rid of urea. An average person puts out 3-4 L of urine a day. If your kidneys had to go 100% to filter out wastes, they can put out up to 75 L of urine a day. A healthy person should have no problem with a high protein diet.

[PowerSwede]

I fast once a year for several days to clean things out, that along with seeing your doctor occasionaly is a good start to keeping everything healthy

Fasting is one thing that will INCREASE the stress on your kidneys.

When your body lacks energy it will break down your muscle tissue to get energy, you get the double whammo, increased protein breakdown along with ketones your body produces when it uses it for energy.

Fasting means starvation, it's one of the worst things you can put your body through, it is by no means a healthy thing to do.

[bofeity]

Fasting is one thing that will INCREASE the stress on your kidneys.

When your body lacks energy it will break down your muscle tissue to get energy, you get the double whammo, increased protein breakdown along with ketones your body produces when it uses it for energy.

Fasting means starvation, it's one of the worst things you can put your body through, it is by no means a healthy thing to do.

You are uninformed on this issue. If you fast "correctly," which you can, it can benefit your body in many ways. There are some fasting articles right here at bb.com and of course else where on the net. Go read up.

[JohnnyThrice]

I had a urine test recently for the military and they said my kidneys were showing above average levels of activity.

At first the doctor asked if I was a heavy drinker. I only have 2-3 drinks per week so I said "no, but I train alot and take in lots of protein...around 200 grams/day....60 grams coming from whey"

He replied " you shouldn't have to take supplements. You can get all your protein requirements from natural foods"

In the end, he didn't seem too concerned with the high protein consumption, rather the whey protein supplementation.

[irish evolution]

This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren’t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.

Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).

even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:

a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7
The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.
Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.

b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.

c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.

d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

If you’re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com

Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it's important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or "adverse." Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).

If the kidney didn’t respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to "work" harder, doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate. But don’t take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):

Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

Think of the blood as a sink. If you turn on the faucet at a low rate, the amount of water going into the sink and the amount leaving the sink should balance each other out, leading to a predictable amount of water in the sink at any moment. However, if you partially plug the drain, you’ll get more water accumulating in the sink at the same faucet flow rate. This is similar to kidney dysfunction (thinking of the water as creatinine). However, alternatively, if the drain remains unplugged but you crank up the faucet flow rate, you’ll get more water in the sink due to the higher flow. This is similar to a high protein diet.

Since weightlifters are continually breaking down muscle protein (this is a good thing), even in the absence of a high protein diet, blood creatinine concentrations tend to be elevated. Furthermore, add in a higher protein diet and creatinine concentrations in the blood will rise. Finally, since creatinine is also a breakdown product of creatine, if a weightlifter is taking creatine supplements (which most do), blood creatinine concentrations will also be high. What all of this means is that the faucet is turned up in weightlifters, not that the drain is plugged.

To address the other relevant measure, the nitrogen component of urea, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), is the end product of protein metabolism and its concentration is also influenced by the rate of excretion (as is creatinine). Excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, or heart failure can cause increases in BUN. Decreased levels may be due to a poor diet, malabsorption, liver damage, or low nitrogen intake. Excess BUN is even more closely correlated with protein intake than is creatinine. The same argument above applies here.

So, as you can see, since both creatinine and BUN are correlated with both high protein metabolism AND kidney function, I’m not suggesting that it’s unreasonable that doctors are worried about the kidneys of your son or daughter. But it’s important for you and your doctor to realize that the increases in BUN and creatinine seen in healthy weightlifters who eat higher protein diets aren’t necessarily a function of kidney health but are much more closely correlated with their diet and training.

According to physician and sports nutrition expert Dr. Eric Serrano, two additional measures are important to tease out the differences between the effects of training and nutrition and the effects of kidney dysfunction. The first is the BUN to creatinine ratio. Dr. Serrano suggests that values up to the low 30’s are okay but anything higher might be indicative of problems. The second is a urinary protein test. This test is a better measure of kidney function than most others.

Considering that most comprehensive kidney function tests include the following measures (A/G Ratio, Albumin, BUN, Calcium, Cholesterol, Creatinine, Globulin, LDH, Phosphorous, Protein - Total, Uric Acid) as well as urinary analysis, it seems irresponsible to make suggestions about protein intake after a simple blood chemistry analysis measuring BUN and creatinine.

[PowerSwede]

You are uninformed on this issue. If you fast "correctly," which you can, it can benefit your body in many ways. There are some fasting articles right here at bb.com and of course else where on the net. Go read up.

I have posted this before, got the same comments then, thrashed up the idiotic pseudo science behind fasting with ultra-ũber herbs or high fructose juice fasting.

There is no benefit from starving yourself, you'll produce more toxins, if you want to "de-toxify" then just let the liver do what it's there for.

[Jedi Master]

. Two kidneys is overkill for the vast majority of us.

are you kidding?

[Brinn]

are you kidding?
No, I'm not. Why do you think they let people be living kidney donors?

[secondsight]

This is FALSE according to everything science now knows to be true. This presumption states that if you take a healthy person and put them on a high protein diet, the protein will somehow negatively influence the kidney, damaging it and causing renal disease. To this end, there is absolutely no data in healthy adults suggesting that a high protein intake causes the onset of renal (kidney) dysfunction. There aren’t even any correlational studies showing this effect in healthy people.

Any studies that show a correlation between renal (kidney) dysfunction and protein intake are in those with some type of diagnosed, pre-existing renal (kidney) disease like diabetic nephropathy, glomerular lesions, etc. Even research into protein restriction for renal patients can be controversial. (Shils, Modern Nutr in Health & Dis, 1999).

even if a doctor were to find an obscure reference that might suggest a relationship between a high-protein diet and kidney disease, there are numerous studies showing otherwise. Here are a few of them:

a) Ann Intern Med 2003 Mar 18;138(6):460-7
The impact of protein intake on renal function decline in women with normal renal function or mild renal insufficiency.
Knight EL, Stampfer MJ, Hankinson SE, Spiegelman D, Curhan GC.

b) Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38
Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes?
Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O.

c) Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 1999 Nov;23(11):1170-7
Changes in renal function during weight loss induced by high vs low-protein low-fat diets in overweight subjects.
Skov AR, Toubro S, Bulow J, Krabbe K, Parving HH, Astrup A.

d) Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

e) Am J Kidney Dis 2003 Mar;41(3):580-7
Association of dietary protein intake and microalbuminuria in healthy adults: Third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey. "Dietary protein intake was not associated with microalbuminuria in normotensive or nondiabetic persons."

If you’re interested, these studies can be accessed at www.pubmed.com

Some studies in healthy individuals do show an alteration of kidney function with very high protein diets. However, it's important to note that these changes are not reported as negative or "adverse." Instead, they seem to be structural adaptations to increased filtration (something the kidneys are doing all the time anyway).

If the kidney didn’t respond this way, most clinicians would think something was wrong. Just like in weight training, tissues adapt to the demands put on them. Therefore, just because the kidneys have to "work" harder, doesn’t mean that this is a negative thing. After all, what happens when muscles work harder? Well, they adapt to the demands and become bigger, stronger, or more efficient. Therefore, the adaptation that kidneys undergo is reasonable and appropriate. But don’t take my word for it, check out this study (again at www.pubmed.com):

Eur J Clin Nutr 1996 Nov;50(11):734-40
Effect of chronic dietary protein intake on the renal function in healthy subjects.
Brandle E, Sieberth HG, Hautmann RE.

Think of the blood as a sink. If you turn on the faucet at a low rate, the amount of water going into the sink and the amount leaving the sink should balance each other out, leading to a predictable amount of water in the sink at any moment. However, if you partially plug the drain, you’ll get more water accumulating in the sink at the same faucet flow rate. This is similar to kidney dysfunction (thinking of the water as creatinine). However, alternatively, if the drain remains unplugged but you crank up the faucet flow rate, you’ll get more water in the sink due to the higher flow. This is similar to a high protein diet.

Since weightlifters are continually breaking down muscle protein (this is a good thing), even in the absence of a high protein diet, blood creatinine concentrations tend to be elevated. Furthermore, add in a higher protein diet and creatinine concentrations in the blood will rise. Finally, since creatinine is also a breakdown product of creatine, if a weightlifter is taking creatine supplements (which most do), blood creatinine concentrations will also be high. What all of this means is that the faucet is turned up in weightlifters, not that the drain is plugged.

To address the other relevant measure, the nitrogen component of urea, blood urea nitrogen (BUN), is the end product of protein metabolism and its concentration is also influenced by the rate of excretion (as is creatinine). Excessive protein intake, kidney damage, certain drugs, low fluid intake, intestinal bleeding, exercise, or heart failure can cause increases in BUN. Decreased levels may be due to a poor diet, malabsorption, liver damage, or low nitrogen intake. Excess BUN is even more closely correlated with protein intake than is creatinine. The same argument above applies here.

So, as you can see, since both creatinine and BUN are correlated with both high protein metabolism AND kidney function, I’m not suggesting that it’s unreasonable that doctors are worried about the kidneys of your son or daughter. But it’s important for you and your doctor to realize that the increases in BUN and creatinine seen in healthy weightlifters who eat higher protein diets aren’t necessarily a function of kidney health but are much more closely correlated with their diet and training.

According to physician and sports nutrition expert Dr. Eric Serrano, two additional measures are important to tease out the differences between the effects of training and nutrition and the effects of kidney dysfunction. The first is the BUN to creatinine ratio. Dr. Serrano suggests that values up to the low 30’s are okay but anything higher might be indicative of problems. The second is a urinary protein test. This test is a better measure of kidney function than most others.

Considering that most comprehensive kidney function tests include the following measures (A/G Ratio, Albumin, BUN, Calcium, Cholesterol, Creatinine, Globulin, LDH, Phosphorous, Protein - Total, Uric Acid) as well as urinary analysis, it seems irresponsible to make suggestions about protein intake after a simple blood chemistry analysis measuring BUN and creatinine.

Interesting. Thanks for all the info.

[Zirus]

There is no benefit from starving yourself, you'll produce more toxins, if you want to "de-toxify" then just let the liver do what it's there for.

You're very uninformed. Doing a Juice Detox every 6-12 months is very important. It's a must to do a complete detox. I do one every 12 months. P.S. It's not starving your system, Juicing Fruits and Vegetables along with drinking alot of water will keep your body running for those days. Read up on it...

[dbish77]

You're very uninformed. Doing a Juice Detox every 6-12 months is very important. It's a must to do a complete detox. I do one every 12 months. P.S. It's not starving your system, Juicing Fruits and Vegetables along with drinking alot of water will keep your body running for those days. Read up on it...

hahahahah LOL!!!

[FriendlyGiant]

Tell me where your friend's quack physician lives and I'll show that fool the error of his "whey"s. It would take extreme, extreme amounts of protein to cause damage to your kidneys and even then it would be the amount of protein, not the source. To claim your friend's kidney damage is the result of whey protein is a blatant lie and his physician should be drawn-and-quartered, damn it!
lol!!

oh and dbish whats up man, we meet again!!

lol

[cardioking]

If I am not mistaken here is the scales of recommended protein intake for certain individuals.....

Normal human... 1g per pound of bodyweight
Normal bodybuilder... 1.5g per pound of bodyweight

That is still a lot of protein so someone would have to really abuse protein or have weak kidneys to have damage done to them.

[Danes]

I was talking with a good doctor before about protein intake.He said you can take 2-3 g per kg bodyweight.Much protein is not good for people with kidney problems,but are u healty,that will not "damage" kidney or something else.Ofcourse, If you eat 5-6 g per kg bodyweight,that will make you body "work" more.Sorry my english is bad,so it is difficult to explain.But 2-3 gram per kr bodyweight is good for us who are lifting and training:)
he gave me many points about why we should increase our proteinintake and eat more protein in our meals.he said that many test show ,that kidney function works better if we have more proteins in our meals.So that is bull**** if some doctor tell you "you dont need more than 100 grams" protein at day.
Increasing protein.He gave me many good reasons why proteinincrease is important!.I can try to translate,or ask some of my friends..remember,stay away of proteinsupplements if you have problem with kidney