Lean Physique Bodybuilding Journal

[Al Shades]

Newcomer to the forum. Going to start keeping a journal describing my workout, including stats and pics. Here's the basic info. Everything will be updated as I go along.

Age: 17
Weight: ~140 (Short-tem Goal: ~150, while retaining lean muscle mass)
BF%: I'm waiting for an explanation on how everyone else is calculating this. As far as I know you need a caliper to do it.
Bodytype: Lean, but with a decent amount of muscle

Pre-workout Stats
----------------------
Arms - 13.5" Flexed
Chest - 37.5"
Waist(below bellybutton): 28.5"
Quads: 19"
Calves: 13.5"

My goal is to add more lean muscle mass *with* definition. Currently I'm making gains quite fast and I'm confident about reaching my goals. After trying different workout strategies for a long time and being rather inconsistent with training, I've finally gotten together an ironclad, full-body regimen as well as a training schedule that puts me in the gym nearly every day of the week.

Diet Details -

I have a very fast metabolism. It's hard for me to gain weight unless I really try (or eat very fatty junk food, which is a no-no). The diet that I'm going for is low sat, low cholest, 100+ gram protein/day, 2k+ cal, 350 >= carbs. I don't eat this well every single day, but I'm working on it. Here's a rough outline of the meals I get:

Meal 1 -
A. Granola Cereal with low fat milk
or
B. Toasted Bagel with low-fat cream cheese spread
Orange Juice

Meal 2 -
Almost always pasta. I like ravioli/tortellini with tomato or pesto sauce. Sometimes I make Alfredo pasta shells. I always get lots of carbs and a good amount of protein in this meal. Good to load up energy for the workout to come later in the day (I work out in the evenings).

Meal 3 (Pre-workout) -
This is almost always soy protein. I make soyburgers and soydogs with fat free american cheese slices and light buns. I usually get 30 or more grams of protein with this meal and 0 fat/cholesterol. Soy is great. I also have a scoop of Creatine mixed in with a glass of Gatorade at this meal. Then I head to the gym.

Meal 4 (Immediately after workout) -
I grab a protein shake at my gym. 35 g, 6 carbs.

Meal 5 (Post-workout) -
It's usually something light. I don't want to eat too heavy after coming back from a workout. This is usually when I eat my salads, if I have any. Low-fat dressing, tomatos, and mozarella.
Drink: Dynamo Energy/Vitamin Drink (sold at Trader Joe's)

Meal 6 (Night Meal) -
This is when it's gets late and I'm usually extremely hungry. If I didn't already have cereal for breakfast, I'll usually have some Protein Plus cereal at this time. Otherwise I'll make an instant soup with lentil or couscous - 18g protein. Since I just got a whey supplement, I'm going to start taking that with this meal as well.

http://img93.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img93&image=img05776ba.jpg

http://img99.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img99&image=IMG_0674B.jpg

[Al Shades]

This is the workout that I follow. I consider it the best workout possible not just for myself, but for anyone with a similiarly lean physique who is looking to build clean, defined mass. I don't use very heavy weights, by most people's standards, but I don't go ultra-light, either. The main difference is that with power movements I don't rack up insane amounts of weight, as some others tend to do. When it comes to isolation exercises I'm pretty much on par with everyone else. I use impeccable form on every exercise, something which I'd say 98% of the people at my gym lack. Thanks to the vast amount of research I've put into creating my workout regimen, I now consider myself a master of form, rivaling the knowledge of any professional bodybuilder in this field. I do full, complete reps, and I always work muscles until failure, hitting them from every angle imaginable. The fact that I never train 2 major muscle groups on the same day helps me put that much more intensity into my workouts.

I have an 8 day split, but there's no particular order to it, other than that which is logical. I switch off upper and lower body exercises, and toss in an ab or cardio day after working out major muscle groups in order to rest them up before the next "real" workout. Right now I'm usually out of the gym 1 or 2 days a week, at the most, but ideally, I'd like to eliminate these "rest days" from my schedule and replace them with cardio days. The reason for this is that I've been taking in a lot more food lately in order to help build up muscle (nearly all of it healthy, mind you), and I've noticed some of it inevitably ending up on my waist and diminishing my six-pack. Since I've always had a fast metabolism, lean physique, and never followed a strict cardio routine in the past, I'm sure that I can continue to eat at my current levels and maintain my leanness so long as I add a few planned out cardio sessions into my routine.

In no particular order:

Day 1 (Arm Day) -
After experimenting with working tri's and bi's seperately, I've come to the conclusion that the absolute best way to work your arms is to do supersets of opposing exercises for both bi's and tri's.

Overhand Triceps Pressdowns
superset with
Underhand short bar cable station curls
Sets: 2 each, alternating

(These are basically my warm-up exercises. I use them to get the blood pumping to my arm muscles)

Rope-attachment Triceps Pulldowns, turning palms down towards the bottom of the movement to get an extra burn
superset with
Rope-attachment Hammer Biceps Curls, turning palms up at the top of the movement to really burn the bi's
Sets: 2 each, alternating


(Again, you've got pretty much identical exercises for the bi's and tri's. Really great way to sculp detail)

Having finished my second set of hammer biceps curls at the cable station, it's time to leave the cables behind and move onto free weights. Since at this point I've usually just come off of bi's, I'll start out with skullcrushers for tri's, doing a drop set.

EZ Bar Skullcrushers/French Presses
Drop Set: x3 (25, 20, 15)

And what's next? The exact opposite movement, of course!

EZ Bar Curl, strict form (elbows pinned to sides as if superglued)
Drop Set: x3 (25, 20, 15)

This is where the official "regimen" of my workout ends. At this point, after doing the 2 drop sets, my arms are really pumped, and I'm looking for a way to take them to complete exhaustion. I like to switch up the exercises here. Almost always, though, I'll toss in a set of standing hammer dumbell curls and narrow grip dips as finishing exercises. Also, if I've got any stamina left after the EZ Bar Curl dropset, I'll grab the bar again, put in on the preacher bench with a weight that's not too heavy, and try to squeeze out as many reps as I can while focusing on the bottom of the movement, in order to build full, elongated biceps. When that becomes too hard, I might toss in a set of pure negatives until complete failure.

And that's it. When it's all said and done, my arms are pumped behind belief and exhausted as well. I'd wager they "inflate" a full inch.

Day 2 (Upper Back Day) -

Warmup: Hyperextensions / Bent-over Longbar Rows (weightless)

Chest Pull-Ups (chins)
Sets: 4, alternating between wide and narrow grip

Cable Rows
Sets: 3, pyramiding up to allow for lower back adaptation

Yes, I bend forward at my lower back when doing these. I consider this a "2-for-1" exercise, meaning that I can get both a lower back and traps workout from it. First, I put my feet on the support pads, maintaining a comfortable bend in the knees. Reaching forward, I take hold of the handle (usually a V-bar) and lean back until I'm about 15 degrees beyond perpendicular. This is the first part of the movement. Then, and only then, I bring the handle back with my arms, flaring out my elbows to the sides as much as possible, and holding for a second at contraction. I then extend my arms as far as I can while keeping my back straight. When they are fully straightened, I lean forward at the waist, bringing the handle back to the starting position and repeating the movement. This is one of my favorite exercises because it's extremely effective when done properly.

T-Bar Rows
Dropset: x3 (45,40,35)

My primary concern is the initial set. I try to squeeze out as many reps as I can with the 45, without resting at the top or bottom of the movement. This is the hardest back exercise in my routine.

Cable Lat Pulldowns OR Lever Machine Pulldowns
Sets: 3/4

This is simply an exercise for when your muscles are too fatigued to do any more pull-ups and you want to take them to exhaustion. I use narrow and wide handles, pulling down to the top of the chest, flaring out my elbows while keeping my back rigid. Occasionally, I might do some wide grip pull downs to the back of the neck.

Day 3 (Leg Day 1) -

Quads and Glutes. This is squat day.

Day 4 (Chest)

All pecs, as little anterior delts and tri's as humanly possible.

Day 5 (Shoulders) -

All 3 heads. I'm going to start putting more emphasis on the middle and rear heads, due to the fact that the front tends to get worked alongside other muscle groups. This is also the day that I do shrugs for my traps. I throw them in at the start of my workout to get the blood pumping.

Day 6 (Leg Day 2/Lower Back Day) -

Lowerback, Hammy's, and Calves, in that order. This is good morning / deadlift day. Calves come at the end, but the 2 day leg split allows me to give them the attention they deserve.

Day 7 (Abs/Cardio) -

I try to do abs twice a week. I don't always do cardio alongside them.

Day 8 (Rest / Cardio) -

Currently a day where I don't go to the gym. Soon to be my cardio day. I'm not a big fan of mixing seperate workouts, even if one of them is cardio. Thus, having a dedicated cardio day makes sense for me.

Much more to be added soon. Feel free to critique the workouts I've posted so far (arms/upper back).

...

There's one more thing: As far as my workouts are concerned, I'm not as big of a "number cruncher" as a lot of other people I see on here. That is, I'm not as strict when it comes to doing a particular number of sets or reps. I never count the exact number of reps in a set because all of my concentration goes into keeping proper form and breathing (I've found that trying to keep a running count detracts from those things). Nevertheless, it's not hard to distinguish between low, medium, and high rep sets (with corresponding weights), and I utilize all 3 on the basis of what I'm trying to get out of a particular exercise. I don't limit myself to a fixed number of sets, either. I think it's very important to develop the "mind to muscle connection," and if you've been following a routine for a while, you should know your own capabilities. Throwing in numbers before the fact is only going to limit your progress. Thus, all set numbers are approximate, and tend to vary. I also stretch before and during every single workout, since there's always something that's sore on me, and moving around helps get rid of the lactic acid faster.

Comments please!

[IronBender800]

Good luck with all that man! Personally i dont like your choice of exercises on some things but if it works for you go for it.

[Al Shades]

Thursday, January 20, 2005 -

Today was shoulder today. I had taken 2 days off due to extreme lower-back soreness from a leg workout on Monday. In formulating my routine, I wanted to try something new because I didn't think I had given my shoulders a complete workout in the past (I hit all 3 heads but never really got a pump).

Today, I wanted to mark my return with a killer workout that would send my shoulders pumping like never before. In formulating it, I went against normal convention. I read through DiamondDelt's post on shoulder training and pulled a few of the exercises that I liked off there. Then I looked through other sources until I got a sizable index of exercises that I liked. The problem was putting them all together and figuring out the order. I ended up with a unique routine that was like nothing I had done or seen before, and I knew that it would either be a landmark or a disaster. Keeping in mind my back soreness over the past few days, I minimized the pressing movements in my workout and relegated them towards the end, focusing instead on detailed, sculpting movements and supersetting them against each other to hit opposing delt heads.

Warm-Up:

Behind-Neck Press on Smith
3 set x 12 reps x (bar, 10, 20 lb./side)

Rear Barbell Shrug on Smith
1 x 15 x 30/side

Lever "Butterfly" Front/Side Raise Machine
1 x 20 x 50

Workout:

Cable Reverse Overhead Laterals (Vert. Flyes)
1 x 12 x 20 (1)
1 x 10 x 20 (3)
superset w/
DB Seated Alternating Lateral Raises
1 x 10 x 15 (2)
1 x 10 x 12.5 (4)

[Alternating, with order shown]

Cable Standing Bilateral Raises
1 x 12 x 10

[Wanted 1 more set of side raises after the superset to take medials to exhaustion]

Standing/Seated Upright Cable Row
1 x 12 x 60 (Standing)(1)
1 x 10 x 60 (Seated)(3)
superset w/
Lever Rear Delt Reverse Flye
1 x 12 x 60 (2)
1 x 10 x 60 (4)

[Alternating, with order shown]

Superset: Cable Front Raises
1 x 12 x 30 (short bar, palms down)
1 x 10 x 30 (short bar, palms up)
1 x 12 x 20 (rope, hammer grip)

[Consecutive]

Lever Overhead Press
1 x 12 x 80 (palms up, wrists bent back)

EZ-Bar Front BB Shrug
1 x 10 x 45/side (narrow grip, hands side-by-side)

DB Side Shrugs
1 x 10 x 35

Prone Face-down Rear Butterfly
1 x 12 x 5

Approximate time: 45 Minutes

Thankfully, the workout was a success. One of the best I've ever had, and certainly the best I've ever done on shoulders. It went a bit longer than it should have because I was interupted several times. I'm going to do this again on my next shoulder day and try to get it done in half an hour.

Thoughts?

[Al Shades]

Would appreciate input on my shoulder workout.

[Al Shades]

Saturday, January 22, 2005 -

Supersonic chest workout! With only half an hour at my disposal before my gym closed, I was racing against the clock to finish this workout. I ended up doing my final sets in the dark, after the main lights had been shut off. Nevertheless, my chest got fully pumped, so I wasn't complaining! ;)

Smith flat bench press
1 set x 12 reps x 35 lb./side (Warmup set)

1 x 10 x 45/side
1 x 9 x 55/side

Smith incline bench press (Approx. 28° incline)
1 x 10 x 35/side
1 x 8 x 45/side

Smith flat bench press
1 x 6 x 60/side

Lever Seated Fly
1 x 7 x 135
1 x 4 x 107
1 x 4 x 90
1 x 7 x 75

Cable High-Pulley Cross-over
1 x 11 x 30(1)(Kneeling)
1 x 8 x 40 (3)
superset w/
Cable Low-Pulley Cross-over
1 x 10 x 40(2)
1 x 10 x 30(4)

[Alternating, with order shown]

Notes: Rest times between sets and exercises were shorter than usual. All benching exercises done with wide grip. Approximate workout time was 26 minutes.

[Al Shades]

Waiting for the inevitable "you use too many machines" comment about my chest workout.

[Porky]

Waiting for the inevitable "you use too many machines" comment about my chest workout.

i didnt even see ur chest routine but here it is for you

al****s you use to many machines in ur chest workout

[Al Shades]

What were you going to say before that?

[IronBender800]

Waiting for the inevitable "you use too many machines" comment about my chest workout.

*INCOMING*

You use to many machines for your chest workout!!!!!!!

WHy, Why, Why?????

The difference between the smith machine and a free weight bench press is significant in terms of overall gains. There are several important neurological factors at play here:

balance proprioception: In every exercise you do there is an element of balance, or to put it more technically a feedback loop that constantly adjusts recruitment of agonist, antagonist and synergists in order to maintain the desired output. This is a facet of the CNS, so it's centrally controlled and can be improved by using primarily free weight exercises, and even more so by using CKCE exercise, closed kinetic chain exercises. Squats on the smith machine would be a very seriously bad idea, as squatting is THE exercise which improves balance proprioception to the greatest extent. For bench press it's less of a concern, but it's still a concern.
Other than the effect on the CNS, the fact is that using EMG study and simply common sense, a free weight bench press recruits more muscle fibres it's as simple as that. The body does not and cannot hypertrophy on the scale of an individual muscle, the synergists of that muscle must also hypertrophy or the body would be in a constant state of imbalance and injury.

force proprioception: force proprioception is another attribute that operates both peripherally and centrally, and boils down to this, how heavy does an exercise feel and in what is the specific adaption required to deal with that force? Many people erroneously think that the squat is the king of exercises because of hormone release, which obviously is completely wrong, the actual amount or change in hormone release whilst squatting is insignificant. If you want to release a lot of test go to bed, if you want to release a lot of GH go do some endurance training. The real power of squatting is that as a load bearing exercise is has an extremely strong effect on the force proprioception of the CNS.
Although you may be able to apply a RPE (rating of percieved effort) of 100% to both smith bench and free weight bench, or in other words you will be pushing with everything you have for both exercises. The actual response of the body will be quite different given the demands of the exercise. It just isn't true that load is load is load no matter what the source is, the body can tell a cable from a free weight from a machine.

In terms of injury I don't believe that it matters, it's not WHAT you do it's HOW you do it that determines injury rates. The body can adapt to cope with almost anything.
"



:):):)

[Al Shades]

Ah, finally, a good critique. Thank you for providing me with something constructive to respond to.

I am fully aware of the issue of balance in free-weight lifts, and the added strain placed on the CNS as a result of this. However, you must realize that I use machines in order to not have to worry about balance. I utilize pin-point form on just about every exercise, specifically targetting particular muscles or groups, rather than just getting up the weight any way I can. Granted, there are some downsides to this, as you pointed out. To a certain extent, using less-than-perfect form on an exercise and forcing your muscles to work in unison does have a beneficial effect on the smaller muscles, joints and ligaments that don't get specifically targetted by workouts. Of course, it's easy to take this too far and injure these very parts by using bad form - this is what I have been striving to avoid. I'll tell you how I try to maintain a balance:

I have a 7 to 8 day split that involves training nearly every part of the body seperately. With each workout, I hit muscles from a wide variety of angles and with different types of exercises, even if using machines for all of them (machines are not all alike). I prefer to use this "isolation variety" rather than sticking to all-compound exercises and slacking with form. That doesn't mean I don't do compound exercises, however.

I alternate between using free weights and machines. For example, in my last chest workout (the one prior to that which is posted here) I did Flat BB bench presses and DB incline presses. However, I did not get as good of a pump in my chest as I did recently using the smith machines. Balance was definetly an issue, and using the free weights put noticeable strain on my wrists, forearms, and elbows. This, along with watching Markus Ruhl's chest workout (where he makes full use of machines for the same reasons that I do), was what prompted me to go with the smith on Saturday. Also, I train by myself, and never have a spotter. That is another issue related to using free weights and balance, one that I am trying to remedy by finding someone to train with!

[Al Shades]

By the way, it is my intention to purchase a video recording camera and have my workouts recorded and posted for evaluation on this forum, sometime in the not-too-distant future. It's just a matter of figuring out which camcorder to buy and then finding a place to host the videos.

[-Moores Gym-]

Workouts are looking nice, good luck, ill try and keep an eye on this journal

[Al Shades]

Monday, January 24, 2005 -

Today was primary leg day, Quad/Glute day. Walking is going to be a very difficult task for the next few days.

Leg Extension
1 set x 8 reps x 50 lb. (Warmup)
1 x 8 x 75
1 x 7 x 87.5
1 x 6 x 100

Highest I've done on that exercise so far.

Barbell Squats Pyramiding
1 x 10 x bar (warmup)
1 x 10 x 10/side
1 x 9 x 20/side
1 x 8 x 30/side
1 x 7 x 40/side

Done with wide-stance, to parallel. I don't like to go heavier than 45 plates on squats because it kills my shoulders & neck (and leaves lasting impressions afterwards). Would want a spotter as well. Guess I haven't found the "sweet spot."

Full Dumbell Squats
1 x 9 x 35(1)(To near-floor)
1 x 10 x 30(3)(To near-floor)
superset w/
Dumbell Lunges
1 x 8 x 25(2)(short lunge)
1 x 9 x 22.5(4)(longer lunge)

[Alternating, with order shown]

This was tough, but I loved it. I had to get the various sets of DB's from the rack and bring them over to my work area, so I got in a bit of an extra workout there. Must have squatted down to pick them up at least 5 times, all which could count as extra reps since the movement was identical to the raising motion of the DB full squat. I liked the added intensity of having to move the DB's between sets.

45° Incline Leg Press Machine
1 x 10 x 135/side
1 x 8 x 90/side + 45/top

Horizontal Leg Press
1 x 10 x 225
1 x 8 x 255
1 x 6 x 285

45° Incline Leg Press Machine
1 x 11 x 45/side

High Intensity Cardio - Stairmaster Step Machine:
5 Minutes on 11 - 13 Difficulty (out of 15)

Then I did some leg stretching and rapid bodyweight squats in between sipping a chocolate protein shake.

Approximate workout time: 7:45 - 8:30 = 45 minutes

Next time I need to do hack squats, 45° and/or horizontal.

[Porky]

mr.form eh

tell me why then the barbell kills your shoulders and neck.

o wait lemme tell u. u dont have the bar low enuff on back.

[Al Shades]

Any further down and it starts to hurt the RC. I'd rather have marks on my upper shoulders than a cuff injury. It's funny how you keep coming back with snide remarks and getting shot down. I do squats primarily for my glutes, not quads, which is why I use a wide stance. For quads, I do narrow dumbell squats to-the-floor. It's harder than using a barbell of comparable weight, and you're not risking injury by doing it.

[Porky]

hurts the r/c lol.

u aint shot **** down

[SDFlip]

looked at your pics and all i can say is - you need to eat!

i'm not talking about junk either.... you have very little calories and barely enough protein in your diet to make any significant increase in size/mass.

there are plenty of things you can add to your diet without adding fat. i see about 90 gs of protein max. and nowhere near the amount of calories you need to even maintain! add some eggs and yogurt to your breakfast. have a shake first thing in the AM, too!
for lunch you need some protein, maybe some chicken.
check out the nutrition forum and theres a stck about pre and post workout nutrition. have some cotage cheese at night to give you some protein while you sleep.

you routine needs some fixing up. you talk about using machines so you can focus on muscle pump. you'll get a more complete look if you use freeweights.

from reading your other posts, it seems like you think you know it all already. people here are just trying to help. you're 17 and have a lot to learn. have an open mind and stop being a d!ck.

i, too, am a hardgaining ectomorph... i have been lifting off and on for 5 years and have gained 90 lbs. yeah, I have more bodyfat than i would like, but it's still around 15%. so i know where you are coming from.

[Al Shades]

I'm updating and improving my diet as well as my workouts day-by-day, week-by-week. The pictures at the top of the thread are from December and the diets listed at the top are pretty much out-dated. With that said, I think I'm doing fine in terms of mass and food intake. Hell, on some days I go up to 3,500 calories. In fact, I had to cut it down a bit because I was gaining noticeable fat in my mid section. At 140 pounds, 3,000 calories or more is plenty. More than enough. I get enough protein, having 1 supplement on off-days and 2 on workout days, as well as plenty of protein foods, such as soy, eggs, cheeses, etc. I'd say the bare minimum I get nowadays is 100g/day on off-days, with 150-200 on workout days. This is a vast improvement over my old diet.

"you routine needs some fixing up. you talk about using machines so you can focus on muscle pump. you'll get a more complete look if you use freeweights."

I use both.

"from reading your other posts, it seems like you think you know it all already. people here are just trying to help. you're 17 and have a lot to learn. have an open mind and stop being a d!ck."

I'm not a dick. I haven't been condescending, rude, or ungrateful to any one so far. Rather, I've thanked everyone for their advice. That doesn't mean that I'm going to accept it blindly, however. You should take your own advice, if anything - you certainly were a dick to me on the other thread.

"i, too, am a hardgaining ectomorph... i have been lifting off and on for 5 years and have gained 90 lbs. yeah, I have more bodyfat than i would like, but it's still around 15%. so i know where you are coming from"

90 lbs. would be too much for me in the near future. I prefer to retain existing muscle definition while adding lean muscle mass. I know that this is possible because I've been doing it for about 2 months now. At this rate, I'm quite sure that I'll hit 150 by spring, and when I'm there, I'll be just as toned and muscular as I am now.


hurts the r/c lol.

Wait, can you actually dispute what I said, or can you simply repeat it condescendingly and try to get away with your own presumption of superior knowledge? That's not gonna work on me, bub. The lower down on your back the bar sits, the further back you have to move your arms to hold it, and thus the more strain that is placed on your RC in order to accomodate the backwards retraction. Behind-the-neck pull-downs are commonly refered to as a "risky exercise" for precisely the same reason, stemming from the same positioning of the bar behind the neck and over the back. So, now that I've fully explained my reasoning, let's hear yours ... if you have any.

[SDFlip]

soy, eggs, and cheese isnt gonna add too much size man....

get dome meat in there! tuna, chicken breast, and damn it! STEAK!

you can still use strict form on freeweight exercises.... machines are fine but not as the core of your workout. the body doesnt use muscles in isolation. start using compound exercises and i guarantee you will see a big difference.

you should listen to the advice here....some of these guys have been lifting longer than you have been alive. and they have the numbers and bodies to prove it.


one last thing - EAT!

[Al Shades]

soy, eggs, and cheese isnt gonna add too much size man....

get dome meat in there! tuna, chicken breast, and damn it! STEAK!

Protein is protein. Absortion times and other minor factors may differ among various types, but it's still the same chemical compound, used to repair and rebuild muscle. So calm down, chill out, and shut up - because you don't know what you're talking about. The protein I eat comes with 0 fat, 0 cholesterol, and few carbs or calories (not that I'm holding back on either). If I were to "eat steak," as you idiotically suggest, then my cholesterol would sky-rocket, as would my saturated fat intake, and I'd have to restructure my diet because I could no longer consider my high-protein meals as either low calories or low carbs. No thanks. Meat isn't out of the question. If you had better reading comprehension, you'd know that I consume it on an on-going basis. But I'm not going to start shoveling food down my throat in some rambo-esque death mission to add mass, any way possible. That's an approach for losers who don't know **** about true bodybuilding. I'm adding mass right now at a fast rate, and it's lean, clean, and healthy.


you can still use strict form on freeweight exercises.... machines are fine but not as the core of your workout. the body doesnt use muscles in isolation. start using compound exercises and i guarantee you will see a big difference.

I already use compound exercises. You don't need to teach me about the importance of compound movements, or anything else about kinesiology, considering how little you know of the subject (evident in the other thread). Bench press on the smith machine is a compound exercise. Shoulder press on a lever is a compound exercise. Using machines doesn't make it a non-compound exercise, lol. Oh, and for the 5th time, I ALTERNATE BETWEEN MACHINES AND FREE WEIGHTS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.


you should listen to the advice here....some of these guys have been lifting longer than you have been alive. and they have the numbers and bodies to prove it.

There is no "magic advice" or formula that is going to work or not work. I consider all the advice that I'm given and either accept it or reject it based upon core ideals that I know to be true. I don't care how long someone else has been alive or how they've been lifting. I could put age 47 in my sig and dispense with that bull****. Hell, I'm considering doing it. It's not about age. It's not about the amount of time you've spent in the gym. This board is filled with dumbasses. Many of them are exactly the same people who have been lifting forever, who put up "insane numbers" in their lifts and have the stats to show for it - except, they don't. In almost all cases, their "insane numbers" are grossly exaggerated, and not an accurate representation of their fitness level, since they cheat in every way they can on every exercise imaginable. And their physiques are nothing special either - lots of bulky, undefined mass, and hardly any visible muscle definition. You can look like that at 17, and you can look like that at 47. I don't want to look like that at 17, I don't want to look like that at 47, so why the **** should I take advice from people who do look like that, no matter what the hell age they are? It's not going to happen.

Rather than giving me advice, I suggest you read up on posing, kinesiology, and biochemistry. Quite frankly, you know jack **** about all 3 of them - and that's only in comparison to me.

P.S. I just found out that there's a forum ignore feature. Welcome to it. You and Porky are first on the list, for being clueless morons who do nothing but toss flames.

[sword chucks]

Nice journal bro... it seems like you have put a lot of effort into everything and you certainly know your stuff. However, there are some things that don't add up..

1- at 140lbs you cant possibly know all that the pros know, most knowledge about lifting, comes from experience.

2- overload is what produces muscle, not fatigue. Fatigue produces overtraining. Overload, or adding more weight+reps than last time, causes microtrauma and therefore, growth. Fatigue can do the same but it can yeild more negative effects as well.

3- about your diet.. it's probably a good idea to get some simple carbs pre/post WO (dextrose prefereably, gatorade works too). This is because exercise causes upregulation of Glut-4 receptiors and so nutrients get partitioned into the muscles. Probably also a good idea to eat more low GI carbs around the workout. Not only will that help you add mass more rapidly, it will keep fat gain to a minimum (although you can expect to feel bloated around every workout.. :D) Trust me, this does work, as I have been doing it for about 6 months with little noticable fat gain while bulking up.

4- about squats on the rc, you don't really need evidence for this, mike ruggeria squats 1100-1200lbs i think with the bar low on the shoulders :eek: .. also he benches heavy all the time.. so no it doesn't hurt your rc. You do, however, need to let time pass so your traps can build up, and you get used to more weight.

5- it actually is important how much of the protein you eat is actually used.. thats a no brainer :D soy protein is only 50% efficient in the body i believe and also has been known to increase estrogen levels, according to a few studies that I have read. Probably better to just have chicken.

weare just trying to help out here.. some of the advice may not be best but you are taking at all wrong. When people give you advice it seems like you just brush it off and then make presumptions that they don't know what they are talking about, and throw in little negative comments here and there. How can you assume that everyone on this forum uses bad form? YOu're applying stereotypes about most people in your gym to use, but that isn't us.

The fact of the matter is, you can't argue with science, its not going to change. Your theories are probably based on articles that you read on abcbodybuilding and wannagetbig and stuff, which are mostly opinionated articles just made to fill up the quota for a magazine. This may not be true, but what you need is, to know the science behind bodybuilding, not just methods of doing it.

Anyway good luck with this or whatever you choose to do.

[Al Shades]

Thanks for the advice, swordchucks. I have a few questions and comments.

1. I don't know all that the pros do, but I don't need to. For my physique and style of training, I know pretty much everything that I need. This is a result of personal experience and lots of dedicated research.

2. I am familiar with what you say about overloading. However, I'm not sure which section of my journal you were responding to. I don't remember discussing the concept myself.

3. I go for simple carbs pre and post, but haven't been paying attention to dextrose just yet, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am still perfecting my near-workout diet. You can see that it's come a long way, though, on my nutrition journal.

4. Ah, but it DOES hurt my RC. Some people just have greater flexibility than others. I've always been a bit uncomfortable with exercises such as behind-the-neck presses and pull-downs. Bar-behind-neck just doesn't feel natural to me.

5. Somebody else linked me to an article describing the negative effects of soy. I was shocked, having never heard anything about them before, but I am not going to eliminate soy from my diet because it HAS brought me gains and it is a huge portion of my daily protein intake. Instead I will start introducing (slowly) more animal proteins.

"When people give you advice it seems like you just brush it off and then make presumptions that they don't know what they are talking about, and throw in little negative comments here and there."

That only happened in SDFlipStyle's case, and it was due to the fact that he posted a bunch of trash about me in another thread. He started a feud, essentially, and he recieved the appropriate response.

"The fact of the matter is, you can't argue with science, its not going to change. Your theories are probably based on articles that you read on abcbodybuilding and wannagetbig and stuff, which are mostly opinionated articles just made to fill up the quota for a magazine. This may not be true, but what you need is, to know the science behind bodybuilding, not just methods of doing it."

Actually, those sources aren't where I picked up my knowledge. And knowing the science is knowing the form - it's that simple. I know my form extremely well, and I know a good deal of science as well (less about nutrition, but that's why I'm reading into that area).

[Porky]

thats why you take a wider grip

thankyou mister form you've been owned.

doesnt even know the meaning of form

[Al Shades]

You've never seen me squat, and nothing I wrote on here regarding proper form was incorrect, so who the hell are you to be my judge in that aspect, or in any other? Taking a wide grip relaxes the strain on the RC, but forces you to have the bar up higher. Having it this high is what causes the marks on my shoulders and the discomfort. So you are wrong, I know exactly what I'm talking about and there is no magic solution to the problem. That is why I prefer dumbell squats, which stimulate my quads more and neither leave marks nor strain the RC. End of discussion.

[Al Shades]

Tuesday, January 25, 2005 -

This was upper back day. As per $AJ's advice, I used a thumbless grip on most exercises. It helped to shift focus from the arms to the back. All rep numbers are approximate.

Warm-up:
Hyper Extensions and lat stretches using wooden stick. No barbell rows this time.

Wide Grip Pull-ups, just outside shoulder width
7 reps with bodyweight, pronated grip (palms down)

Medium Grip Pull-ups, just inside shoulder width
7 reps w/BW + 15 lb. dumbell, supinated (palms up)

Wide Grip Pull-ups, just outside shoulder width
3 reps with bodyweight, pronated grip (palms down)

Pull-Up Station
1 set x 8 reps x -60 lb. (wide grip)
1 x 4 x -60 (narrow grip, inside handles)

T-Bar Row Drop Sets, wide grip
1 x 8 x 45
1 x 7 x 40
1 x 7 x 35

Barbell Row, shoulder width grip
1 x 5 x bar (practice set)
1 x 7 x 15/side
1 x 5 x 25/side

Cable Rows w/
pull-handle:
1 x 10 x 70 (warmup set)
1 x 9 x 90
1 x 7 x 100
V-sweep handle:
1 x 8 x 70
1 x 8 x 80
straight bar:
1 x 9 x 70
1 x 9 x 90

Lat Pull-downs Drop Sets
Wide Grip long-bar:
1 x 8 x 120
1 x 8 x 100
1 x 12 x 80 (This was very easy - need more grip strg for higher weight. Wrist straps a must)

Narrow grip pull-handle:
1 x 8 x 100
1 x 8 x 80

Hammer Strength Iso-Row
wide-grip:
2 x 15 x 35 (alternating/unison, to failure)
far-grip:
1 set x 35 lb. to failure

Approximate workout time: 55 minutes

Fantastic Workout! Back is going to get even more shredded. Hit lats, traps, rear delts + lower back a little bit.

[Porky]

You've never seen me squat, and nothing I wrote on here regarding proper form was incorrect, so who the hell are you to be my judge in that aspect, or in any other? Taking a wide grip relaxes the strain on the RC, but forces you to have the bar up higher. Having it this high is what causes the marks on my shoulders and the discomfort. So you are wrong, I know exactly what I'm talking about and there is no magic solution to the problem. That is why I prefer dumbell squats, which stimulate my quads more and neither leave marks nor strain the RC. End of discussion.


no ur wrong a wider grip will allow u to place bar lower on the back.

u dont know **** about squatting. db squats are for weiners

[Raider926]

You've never seen me squat, and nothing I wrote on here regarding proper form was incorrect, so who the hell are you to be my judge in that aspect, or in any other? Taking a wide grip relaxes the strain on the RC, but forces you to have the bar up higher. Having it this high is what causes the marks on my shoulders and the discomfort. So you are wrong, I know exactly what I'm talking about and there is no magic solution to the problem. That is why I prefer dumbell squats, which stimulate my quads more and neither leave marks nor strain the RC. End of discussion.

Your pretty arrogant for 17. How could you know you are using even good form, you said you are going to post videos, why don't you start working on that before you keep running your mouth. You say most people over exaggerate their numbers, I bent BB row 315 3 times. and I dare you to say I use bad form. I think you just don't put up weight, and are jealous of people that can. Why don't you post some before and after pictures. Turn your fallaces into cojeant arguments.

[IronBender800]

Mr. Shades you need to get rid of your know it all attitude and become more open minded.

He who is not willing to learn is not willing to succed.

The others have been correct with what they have said:)

[Al Shades]

Wednesday, January 26, 2005 -

Today was a "light day." Did a short AB routine before work, from about 5:30-6:00. It was a good routine, and I think I'll duplicate it next time. As best as I can recall:

-Warm-up with plenty of stretches, twists and rotations using wooden stick.

-Side extensions holding 5 lb. plates, approx. 15 reps
2 sets, 1 for each side

-Leg Raise on Chair Stand

Narrow, straight - 15 reps
Wide-to-narrow, straight - 10 reps
Narrow, bent-at-knee - 15 reps

All in 1 set.

-Flat Bench Reverse Crunches, approx. 20 reps
1 set

-Flat Bench Decline Crunches, approx. 15 reps
1 set

-Oblique Twist Machine, alternating sides
2 sets x 20 reps x 70 lb. + 1 donut

-Cable Crunches, approx. 40-50 reps
~110 lb. (plates weren't marked)
Alternating straight down, and from side-to-side
1 set

Approximate workout time: 25 Minutes w/stretch

http://www.home-gym-direct.com/Images/250x400/Maxicam_Dip_and_Leg_Raise_Stand.jpg

[sword chucks]

Thanks for the advice, swordchucks. I have a few questions and comments.

1. I don't know all that the pros do, but I don't need to. For my physique and style of training, I know pretty much everything that I need. This is a result of personal experience and lots of dedicated research.

YOu said that you do :s

2. I am familiar with what you say about overloading. However, I'm not sure which section of my journal you were responding to. I don't remember discussing the concept myself.

Just letting you know because you keep mentioning drop sets and stuff to "fatigue" the muscle.

3. I go for simple carbs pre and post, but haven't been paying attention to dextrose just yet, so thanks for bringing that to my attention. I am still perfecting my near-workout diet. You can see that it's come a long way, though, on my nutrition journal.

Yeah definately. Its better to work on it sooner than later though..

4. Ah, but it DOES hurt my RC. Some people just have greater flexibility than others. I've always been a bit uncomfortable with exercises such as behind-the-neck presses and pull-downs. Bar-behind-neck just doesn't feel natural to me.

You should try cuban rotations if you dont already do them. I was just backing up Porky's comment really. If it hurts your R/C then don't do it and you will recover over time.


5. Somebody else linked me to an article describing the negative effects of soy. I was shocked, having never heard anything about them before, but I am not going to eliminate soy from my diet because it HAS brought me gains and it is a huge portion of my daily protein intake. Instead I will start introducing (slowly) more animal proteins.

Hm.. I don't get your reasoning there. How do you know it's been the soy that is bringing your gains in? I would replace the soy pro ASAP. Scientifically, it is not very useful anyhow.

"When people give you advice it seems like you just brush it off and then make presumptions that they don't know what they are talking about, and throw in little negative comments here and there."

That only happened in SDFlipStyle's case, and it was due to the fact that he posted a bunch of trash about me in another thread. He started a feud, essentially, and he recieved the appropriate response.

You did this to others also.

[b]
Actually, those sources aren't where I picked up my knowledge. And knowing the science is knowing the form - it's that simple. I know my form extremely well, and I know a good deal of science as well (less about nutrition, but that's why I'm reading into that area).[/QUOTE]

I wasnt referring to exercise execution, I was talking about your workout split. YOu may know the science but all of those drop sets and negatives don't pertain to the fundamentals of weight training. You should learn about training effectively and then apply the learned knowledge.

I would like to know where you got the ideas for your workouts if not at a website similar to the ones that i mentioned.

Finally, since you say that you know the science behind working out, what is it?

[Porky]

sword dont even bother trying to talk to al shades. i dunno why he even posts a journal since he has perfected his training, has perfect form on machines and is too hard headed to listen to anybody anyways.

[fuzzwazser]

You've never seen me squat, and nothing I wrote on here regarding proper form was incorrect, so who the hell are you to be my judge in that aspect, or in any other? Taking a wide grip relaxes the strain on the RC, but forces you to have the bar up higher. Having it this high is what causes the marks on my shoulders and the discomfort. So you are wrong, I know exactly what I'm talking about and there is no magic solution to the problem. That is why I prefer dumbell squats, which stimulate my quads more and neither leave marks nor strain the RC. End of discussion.

widening your grip on the bar will not force the bar higher. If it does your form just needs to be fixed.

[sword chucks]

sword dont even bother trying to talk to al shades. i dunno why he even posts a journal since he has perfected his training, has perfect form on machines and is too hard headed to listen to anybody anyways.

:D

As for the squats, yeah, if you have a wide grip the bar should be lower. It's not a shoulder press, just pull the shoulder blades back, stick the chest out, and support the bar. I usually grab the bar with my pinkies on the ring so it's moreof a close grip... since Im weighing 155-160 and this works fine for me, it should be good for Al too, since he is about an equal weight. This way your shoulders don't have to press too much, its kind of supported by your joints.

[Porky]

al shades if you try a thumbless grip im sure you will find it more comfortable too.


i put index fingers on wrings and use a thumbless grip.

[sword chucks]

al shades if you try a thumbless grip im sure you will find it more comfortable too.


i put index fingers on wrings and use a thumbless grip.

Exactly. Although I'm actually not sure if I use a thumbless grip or not, I never pay attention to stuff like that.

[Al Shades]

Just letting you know because you keep mentioning drop sets and stuff to "fatigue" the muscle.

Oh, now I see what you were getting at. The "endurance vs. strength training" argument. Yeah, don't worry. I've got plenty of strength-building sets in my workout. I rarely go over 15 reps. Most of the time it's 10 or less.


Yeah definately. Its better to work on it sooner than later though..

I think I've got the pre and post workout diet nailed down now. I found a great supplement at my gym to aid in post-workout recovery. It's in my latest nutrition logs.


You should try cuban rotations if you dont already do them. I was just backing up Porky's comment really. If it hurts your R/C then don't do it and you will recover over time.

I'm not sure what cuban rotations are. I'm a huge fan of dumbell squats. I think they combine the positive aspects of deadlifts and squats without the discomfort or risk of injury. And contrary to what people who haven't tried them may think - they're extremely harder. Harder than regular squats.


Hm.. I don't get your reasoning there. How do you know it's been the soy that is bringing your gains in? I would replace the soy pro ASAP. Scientifically, it is not very useful anyhow.

Because it's been the "healthiest" food in my diet for the longest amount of time. I can't just replace it, it's literally a staple of my lifestyle. The stuff makes people live to 120 and greatly reduces the risk of heart disease - it can't be that bad. As I said, I will incorporate other animal proteins into my diet. Probably starting with tuna. As it stands I have ham about once a week.


You did this to others also.

I don't know which others you're referring to, but SDFlipStyle was far from the only person to flame me.


I wasnt referring to exercise execution, I was talking about your workout split. YOu may know the science but all of those drop sets and negatives don't pertain to the fundamentals of weight training. You should learn about training effectively and then apply the learned knowledge.

I know about training effectively. Making vague statements about my overall training program isn't going to make for a good conversation here. I don't do too many drop sets or negatives. From now on, you should comment on specific workouts and be very particular if you want to elicit a decent response out of me.


I would like to know where you got the ideas for your workouts if not at a website similar to the ones that i mentioned.

I didn't pull my workouts off any source, period - I created them for myself. I started out with a basic program, and filled the holes as I went along. How did I fill them? Through tons of research as well as my own experience in the gym.


Finally, since you say that you know the science behind working out, what is it?

That's a nonsensical question.

[Al Shades]

widening your grip on the bar will not force the bar higher. If it does your form just needs to be fixed.

There is nothing to "fix." It's less about form, and more about physiology. I can't change the way my joints are positioned in my body. But enough about squats - I don't need any help on them. Suffice to say I don't believe in doing heavy squats, for a number of reasons. I love it how you people seem hell-bent on "fixing" a problem where there is none. I never needed any advice on squats, whatsoever. Dumbell squats are much better than barbells. You're getting a deadlift and a squat in one exercise. Harder on the legs, easier on everything else - just the way it should be.

[Al Shades]

Friday, January 28, 2005 -

Today was arm day. I modified my existing routine to try out some new things. I think I will alternate between several different routines for training arms. I haven't yet nailed down a perfect one. Nevertheless, today was quite good. Much better than my last arm workout, which was a virtual disaster due to the crowds in my gym.

Overhand Triceps Pressdown (Pyramidx3)
3 sets x 12 reps x (50, 70, 80 lb., shortbar, wide-grip)

Close-grip Chin-ups
1 x 9 x BW (from full extension to chin-over-bar in slow motion)

As I had hoped, this proved to be a good starting exercise to warm-up the biceps. From now on I will probably stick to neutral grip on back day pull-ups.

Lying EZ-Bar French Press (dropset)
3 x 12 x (25,20,15)/side

An assistant would be very useful for this exercise. Considering switching to cable or replacing with something different altogether.

Standing dumbell curl (compound set)
1 x 12 x 30 (palms up grip, to thigh)
1 x 12 x 25 (hammer grip, to chest impact)

These were easier than expected. Will try to crank out a perfect-form set with the 35's next time.

Close-Grip Dips
1 x 15 x BW (elbows back, chest up)

Standing Straight-bar Curl
1 x 8 x 15/side (20?)

Forward-leaning Preacher Curl w/straight-bar
1 x 5 x 10/side (to failure)
1 x 3 x 5/side (to failure)

These are tough as ****, starting as low as possible. Should have started with the 5's.

Standing Cable Rope Press-down (Descendingx3)
1 x 9 x 70
1 x 8 x 60
1 x 10 x 40

Standing dumbell curl (compound set)
1 x 12 x 25 (palms up grip, to thigh)
1 x 10 x 22.5(hammer grip, to chest impact)

Backwards-facing Supported Dips
1 x 15 x BW-60 (elbows back, chest up, to full arm extension)

Lying High-Pulley Cable Curl (Ruhl Style)
1 x 20 x 70 (to exhaustion w/short bar)

This is a nice finisher. Should set the weight higher next time as I managed to squeeze out a ton of reps.

Approximate workout time: 50 minutes

[sword chucks]

Oh, now I see what you were getting at. The "endurance vs. strength training" argument. Yeah, don't worry. I've got plenty of strength-building sets in my workout. I rarely go over 15 reps. Most of the time it's 10 or less.

You are right... that first arm workout and the chest workout were what threw me off. Lately the workouts have been pretty good actually, keep training hard.



I think I've got the pre and post workout diet nailed down now. I found a great supplement at my gym to aid in post-workout recovery. It's in my latest nutrition logs.

What is it? I can't find the diet logs.



I'm not sure what cuban rotations are. I'm a huge fan of dumbell squats. I think they combine the positive aspects of deadlifts and squats without the discomfort or risk of injury. And contrary to what people who haven't tried them may think - they're extremely harder. Harder than regular squats.

They're just another name for external rotations.. internal rotations are good too btw. DB squats are good, but if your gym has a trap bar, I would suggest using that. It doesn't put you in a position where the DB's roll down the sides of your body.



Because it's been the "healthiest" food in my diet for the longest amount of time. I can't just replace it, it's literally a staple of my lifestyle. The stuff makes people live to 120 and greatly reduces the risk of heart disease - it can't be that bad. As I said, I will incorporate other animal proteins into my diet. Probably starting with tuna. As it stands I have ham about once a week.

Instead of replacing it why not just add other protein on top of it.. soy protein isn't useful for bbing, as we have concluded, but if you want to be heart healthy then by all means, eat it.



I don't know which others you're referring to, but SDFlipStyle was far from the only person to flame me.

That isn't what I said. I said whenever people respond, you reply with a harsh tone... but that's not important really.. we're just exchanging ideas. You can always stop being a baby about these flame wars since they're sort of silly.



I know about training effectively. Making vague statements about my overall training program isn't going to make for a good conversation here. I don't do too many drop sets or negatives. From now on, you should comment on specific workouts and be very particular if you want to elicit a decent response out of me.

I could make arguments about that first arm workout or the too many machine thing in the chest workout. I shouldn't have to adress individual workouts anyway, your split hits every muscle with a low frequency and is just based on the single factor theory of training.. and your exercise selection could be better on some days. I know that you know what I am talking about here.

I didn't pull my workouts off any source, period - I created them for myself. I started out with a basic program, and filled the holes as I went along. How did I fill them? Through tons of research as well as my own experience in the gym.

That's not what I said either. Where did you get the information? I'm curious, since most of the stuff that I have read does not support this type of training. I know you didn't just find a website and use the exact workout program from it, nobody does that.

That's a nonsensical question.

I think it's a completely valid question, it goes with asking you where did you get your information... I was wondering why you think that this type of training is best and what scientific information you have to back it up.


Also, the "too many drop sets" comment was my bad, I was judging it off of the only 2 workouts on the page.

As for a replacement on skullcrushers, I would suggest using bilateral overhead DB extensions.. you don't have any extension with your arm in that position yet and it can be useful for targeting the different heads in the triceps.

Are the Ruhl style curls done like an overhead cable curl? I just started to do these, they seem to hit the bi's pretty well.

[fuzzwazser]

There is nothing to "fix." It's less about form, and more about physiology. I can't change the way my joints are positioned in my body. But enough about squats - I don't need any help on them. Suffice to say I don't believe in doing heavy squats, for a number of reasons. I love it how you people seem hell-bent on "fixing" a problem where there is none. I never needed any advice on squats, whatsoever. Dumbell squats are much better than barbells. You're getting a deadlift and a squat in one exercise. Harder on the legs, easier on everything else - just the way it should be.

where did all this come from? hell bent on fixing a problem? I was simply corrcting you. I don't think back squats are needed for bodybuilding at all either actually. If you like dumbell squats more power to you. I never said anything about you doing squats or to change your routine in any way. You don't need to be so defensive. That being said. Solid arm workout. Keep it up

[Al Shades]

What is it? I can't find the diet logs.

Right from my sig:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=393815


They're just another name for external rotations.. internal rotations are good too btw. DB squats are good, but if your gym has a trap bar, I would suggest using that. It doesn't put you in a position where the DB's roll down the sides of your body.

Sounds like upright rows. My gym doesn't have a trap bar.


Instead of replacing it why not just add other protein on top of it.. soy protein isn't useful for bbing, as we have concluded, but if you want to be heart healthy then by all means, eat it.

That's what I said I'd do.


That isn't what I said. I said whenever people respond, you reply with a harsh tone... but that's not important really.. we're just exchanging ideas. You can always stop being a baby about these flame wars since they're sort of silly.

I disagree.


I could make arguments about that first arm workout or the too many machine thing in the chest workout. I shouldn't have to adress individual workouts anyway, your split hits every muscle with a low frequency and is just based on the single factor theory of training.. and your exercise selection could be better on some days. I know that you know what I am talking about here.

No, I don't know what you're talking about. How would I know? I don't intentionally do sub-par workouts. I do what I feel is the best.


That's not what I said either. Where did you get the information? I'm curious, since most of the stuff that I have read does not support this type of training. I know you didn't just find a website and use the exact workout program from it, nobody does that.

Nobody does that? Lol. How many "Max/OT"/etc type journals are in this forum alone? What the hell do you mean nobody does that? Nearly everyone on this forum does it. As for sites, I've done research on specific topics on bodybuilding.com, teenbodybuilding, ExRx for specific exercises, and a host of others obtained via searching the net.


I think it's a completely valid question, it goes with asking you where did you get your information... I was wondering why you think that this type of training is best and what scientific information you have to back it up.

I'm not sure what you mean by "this" type of training. "This" doesn't exist for me; it means nothing. I have multiple routines and follow them all. The only possible way for me to answer a question like that is if you stop beating around the bush and start getting into specifics.


As for a replacement on skullcrushers, I would suggest using bilateral overhead DB extensions.. you don't have any extension with your arm in that position yet and it can be useful for targeting the different heads in the triceps.

Used to do those in my tri routine; they had actually slipped out of my mind. I will consider them as a possibly for a french press replacement along with lying cable presses.


Are the Ruhl style curls done like an overhead cable curl? I just started to do these, they seem to hit the bi's pretty well.

Yes they are overhead, but they're lying prone. Ruhl does it as a finishing exercise for bi's in "Made in Germany." You simply find a high cable pulley, attach a short bar to it, put a bench under it, then lie on the bench with your feet towards the pulley and curl the bar over your chest/neck. It's a good alternative to nearly all other curls because you're not fighting against gravity, and thus, you can really focus on your biceps rather than your wrists or forearms.

[sword chucks]

Right from my sig:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=393815

Oops :rolleyes:


Sounds like upright rows. My gym doesn't have a trap bar.

No, I thought that while you are squatting up with DB's at your sides, you get some unwanted friction. The trap bar doesn't do this and seemed to be more comfortable last time I checked.

That's what I said I'd do.

whatever


I disagree.

With what? It's not important. Let's drop it. That part of the conversation has no relation to bbing anyways :)


No, I don't know what you're talking about. How would I know? I don't intentionally do sub-par workouts. I do what I feel is the best.

Well the thing is you can't really apply superlatives like "I feel that this is the best way to train" because what you are doing is contradicting yourself. Your split doesn't stimulate microtrauma often enough in each muscle which is why it doesn't seem like you really have done your research.

Nobody does that? Lol. How many "Max/OT"/etc type journals are in this forum alone? What the hell do you mean nobody does that? Nearly everyone on this forum does it. As for sites, I've done research on specific topics on bodybuilding.com, teenbodybuilding, ExRx for specific exercises, and a host of others obtained via searching the net.

Well I mean taking a workout word-for-word from a website.. very few people follow a workout like that for more than a week or two without changing it. Also, a lot of websites like bodybuilding.com or teenbodybuilding.com (the same website actually) are generally full of biased articles, as are nmost internet websites. They give programs but few state why the program is mechanically more efficient than others, because most of the time it is not. To tell you the truth, I don't know where I got my information, since most of the science that I read about was in random HST topics and other such topics on this board from other individuals. Some good websites include mindandmuscle.net, avantlabs.com, and fortifiediron.net. exrx.net is an awesome website as well, I have learned more about exercise science from that one website than from all others combined.

I'm not sure what you mean by "this" type of training. "This" doesn't exist for me; it means nothing. I have multiple routines and follow them all. The only possible way for me to answer a question like that is if you stop beating around the bush and start getting into specifics.

It seems like you are beating around the bush. I mean the type of training that you are doing now.

Used to do those in my tri routine; they had actually slipped out of my mind. I will consider them as a possibly for a french press replacement along with lying cable presses.

Hm lying cable presses could be fun as you would probably get a good contraction at the top.

Yes they are overhead, but they're lying prone. Ruhl does it as a finishing exercise for bi's in "Made in Germany." You simply find a high cable pulley, attach a short bar to it, put a bench under it, then lie on the bench with your feet towards the pulley and curl the bar over your chest/neck. It's a good alternative to nearly all other curls because you're not fighting against gravity, and thus, you can really focus on your biceps rather than your wrists or forearms.

I like kneeling overhead curls as well, from what I have heard, they help to develop the brachialis pretty well because of the arm positioning in relation to the shoulders. Something to read about on exrx i guess :D

[Al Shades]

Here's an idea that I like alot:

Doing a combined set of French Presses and Close-grip presses with an EZ-Bar. One after another, probably in that order. A spotter would be helpful. This would be a useful way of adding close-grip presses to my routine without having to take out cable press-downs.

[sword chucks]

Here's an idea that I like alot:

Doing a combined set of French Presses and Close-grip presses with an EZ-Bar. One after another, probably in that order. A spotter would be helpful. This would be a useful way of adding close-grip presses to my routine without having to take out cable press-downs.

I personally don't like the concept of pre-fatigue becuase I would much rather overload my triceps with CGBP fresh. Once you begin to fatigue the muscles to that level, you only build the capillaries and not really sarcomere hypertrophy. You could do 1-2 sets of those at most but keep in mind that extra set isn't helping build real mass.

[Al Shades]

I'm not ready to take cable pressdowns out of my workout. They're a good starting exercise to get my arms pumped. So if I'm going to do close grip presses at all, it's gotta be with Frenches. I opted out of close-grip benches last time because I thought they might be straining on the shoulders when done with a long bar(but I'm not entirely sure because I haven't done them in a while).

I may try the kneeling overhead curls. I assume you pull the bar slightly behind your head.

Friction isn't really a problem for me with DB squats. Certainly a lot better than pure deadlifts, where you have to worry about getting the bar over your knees (and usually strain your back as a result).

I don't think it's possible for you to judge whether or not my routine causes sufficient muscle breakdown in order to stimulate growth. I'm well aware of this concept, and my workouts are designed to stimulate it. However, unlike most other people, I'm not going to do a workout that involves only a few heavy sets of one or two exercises, because I believe in hitting muscles from every possible angle in order to stimulate complete development. This is a core principle of my training. I'll probably try a "heavy" arm workout next week, for variation. I intend to replicate the DB curls I did using 30's on my last workout with 35's - that I know for sure. The rest, I'll determine as the day draws nearer.

I'm not doing any "type" of training. Only that which I think is the best for me. There is no term to describe it.

[Al Shades]

Monday, January 31, 2005 -

Lower back/Hamstring/Calf Workout

Warm-up: Hindu Squats, Hindu Push-ups, lower back stretches, hamstring stretches, Hyper-extensions.

Routine:

-Elevated SLDL's off Rack (Pyramiding x4)
Practice Set w/bar
3sets x 7-8 reps x (95, 125, 145, 165)

Rep-count is very rough; I sure as hell wasn't counting. But I did a decent number of reps, definetly above 5, and I tried to keep the rep ranges the same as I went up in weight. Next time: 3 work sets starting at 25/side and adding another 25 each time, up to a total of 195.

-Lying Hamstring Curls (Dropsets x5)
1 x 3 x 87.5 (Too much weight)
1 x 4 x 75+pancake
1 x 4 x 50+pancake
1 x 5 x 37.5+pancake
1 x 7 x 25

I burned out early on this by setting the weight too high. I also had my feet rather wide, which was killing my sub-knee muscles and doing little for my hams. I fixed it towards the end by using a narrow foot stance, but I was too exhausted to get much more out of it. This exercise requires a spotter to assist with reps for best effect.

-Barbell Good Mornings (Reverse Pyramind x3)
1 x 6 x 30/side (fairly tough, had to adjust my stance)
1 x 7 x 20/side (easier but still having problems balancing)
1 x 10 x 15/side (these were fairly easy and I nailed the balance finally)

-Standing Calf Raise
1 x 6 x 210
3 x 8 x 195

-Seated Toe Press
2 x 8 x 90+3 donuts

-Seated Calf Raise
1 x 16-18 x 45 (to exhaustion)

Approximate workout time: 55 Minutes w/warm-up

Comments: I'm glad I put the SLDL's at the start of my lower back routine; I like them a lot and can't wait to try more weight. The only problem with them was setting the rack up properly and the getting the bar off it to start the movement. No power rack at my gym, so I used a squat rack and stood on an elevated platform in the middle of it. At first I started with the bar sitting on the bottom of the rack, but it was so far below me that picking up it up to start the lift was awkward. As a result, I started racking it in the second rung from the bottom on my later sets; ROM was unaffected - I was able to take the bar down to the bottom of the squat rack, which was more than enough distance to do the movement considering my elevated position.

[Al Shades]

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 -

Shoulder Day

Warm-up:
-Smith Behind Neck Press (Pyramid x3)
3 x 10 x (bar, 5, 10)

-Smith Rear BB Shrug
1 x 12 x 30/side

Routine:
-Standing Lever Overhead Press (Ruhl Style)
2 x 10 x (90, 125)

-DB Lateral Raises
1 x 7 x 15 (Standing, unison)
1 x 5 x 12.5 (Seated, unison)
1 x 9 x 10 (Seated, alternating)

-Cable Overhead Lateral Raises ("Vertical Flyes")
1 x 7 x 30

-DB Lateral Raises
1 x 12 x 12.5 (Seated, alternating)

-Cable Overhead Lateral Raises ("Vertical Flyes")
1 x 9 x 20

-Cable Lateral Raises
1 x 10 x 10 (Standing, unison)
1 x 8 x 10 (Leaning, right-arm)
1 x 8 x 10 (Leaning, left-arm)

-Incline Bench Rear Delt Row
1 x 7 x 17.5 (~28° Incline)
1 x 8 x 15 (~28° Incline)

-Lever Machine Reverse Flye (Dropset x3)
3 x 9 x (60, 45, 30) (neutral grip)

-Cable Front Raises (Mega Set x3)
1 x 7 x 40 (underhand grip w/shortbar)
1 x 6 x 30 (hammer grip w/rope)
1 x 8 x 20 (overhand grip w/shortbar)

-DB Front Raises
1 x 12 x 10 (overhand grip, alternating)

-EZ-Bar Front Shrugs
1 x 10 x 45/side

-DB Side Shrugs
1 x 9 x 35

-Lying Upright Cable Row (Ruhl Style)
1 x 8 x 60
1 x 6 x 50 (to exhaustion)

Approximate workout time: 1 hour, 5 mins. w/warm-up

Comments: Fantastic Workout. This is the way to hit shoulders. Need to stand closer to the lever on the machine overhead press, so as to reduce joint strain. Aside from that, I can easily handle 150 or more on that exercise. Should go up next time. Need to work on bi-lateral DB raises. Should use a long-bar on front shrugs because EZ-bar isn't stable with close-grip. Should slightly reduce ROM on some raises and go for additional reps.

[SDFlip]

Yes, there were lots of exercises and sets. With shoulders, that's a given. Everyone knows how difficult it can be to work shoulders, especially with exercises like lateral raises. It's better to increase overall volume than to decrease form or risk injury by attempting weights that you can't manage properly. There was nothing "weird" at all about any exercise in my routine. Every one of them was a relatively common and great exercise.

I guess I already have enough mass to work with, because my muscles are getting unbelievably chiseled; I couldn't be happier with my workouts, particularly this one.

I don't need to incorporate any more mass building movements into my routine, because I already have plenty. Lever overhead presses, Front, side and back shrugs and rear delt rows. Yes, I'm hellbent on targetting as many muscle fibers as possible, because bodybuilding is about full muscular development, not raw mass. The former is obtained in the gym; the latter, in the kitchen.

By the way, there's really no need to quote an entire post, particularly a long one, if your reply is going to come right after it.


hahaha! what'd i tell ya, PowerSwede!

[PowerSwede]

Yes, there were lots of exercises and sets. With shoulders, that's a given. Everyone knows how difficult it can be to work shoulders, especially with exercises like lateral raises. It's better to increase overall volume than to decrease form or risk injury by attempting weights that you can't manage properly. There was nothing "weird" at all about any exercise in my routine. Every one of them was a relatively common and great exercise.

I guess I already have enough mass to work with, because my muscles are getting unbelievably chiseled; I couldn't be happier with my workouts, particularly this one.

I don't need to incorporate any more mass building movements into my routine, because I already have plenty. Lever overhead presses, Front, side and back shrugs and rear delt rows. Yes, I'm hellbent on targetting as many muscle fibers as possible, because bodybuilding is about full muscular development, not raw mass. The former is obtained in the gym; the latter, in the kitchen.

By the way, there's really no need to quote an entire post, particularly a long one, if your reply is going to come right after it.

Let me guess, you are one of those guys who measures the quality of their workouts by how much pump you get rather than how much mass you gain?

For the 16 years i have been working out i have seen plenty of people like you in the gym, after a few years they have either quit or realized the truth, umpteen wierd excersises aren't worth as much as three good sets of a basic power exercise.

Lever overhead presses isn't a mass building exercise, heavy military presses would be an example of a mass builder, rear delt rows on a machine isn't a mass builder either, get a barbell and bend over if you want to add mass and doing three different types of shrugs isn't better than doing three sets of heavy barbell shrugs, it's still a one joint isolation excersise as long as you don't bend your elbows.

The point isn't to do MORE exercises, the point is to do what works and skip the rest.

Really, i am just trying to help out here, you look like you need some help. ;)

[SDFlip]

Let me guess, you are one of those guys who measures the quality of their workouts by how much pump you get rather than how much mass you gain?

For the 16 years i have been working out i have seen plenty of people like you in the gym, after a few years they have either quit or realized the truth, umpteen wierd excersises aren't worth as much as three good sets of a basic power exercise.

Lever overhead presses isn't a mass building exercise, heavy military presses would be an example of a mass builder, rear delt rows on a machine isn't a mass builder either, get a barbell and bend over if you want to add mass and doing three different types of shrugs isn't better than doing three sets of heavy barbell shrugs, it's still a one joint isolation excersise as long as you don't bend your elbows.

The point isn't to do MORE exercises, the point is to do what works and skip the rest.

Really, i am just trying to help out here, you look like you need some help. ;)


no matter what you say swede - he's right, we are ALL wrong.

he's 17 so you have to forgive him!

[PowerSwede]

no matter what you say swede - he's right, we are ALL wrong.

he's 17 so you have to forgive him!

THERE WILL BE NO FORGIVENESS!!!

j/k ;)

Ah, well, i tried, i think i'll just leave him alone from now on since he won't listen anyway.

Tomorrow i am going to wax my car, that really makes my muscles grow because i get a SUPER pump from it. ;)

[johnsbod]

this has helped many people...




Exercise Video Description
Ballet Workout II

by Collage Video -- we've actually done it!

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Ballet Workout II

See video previews of this video, Ballet Workout II.


Specifications on Ballet Workout II

Click on the title for more information including time graphs, description explanations and previous buyer reviews.


Click to order as a VHS tape. ($19.95)

Instructed by Melissa Lowe


Exercise Type: Toning
Exercise Emphasis: Lower body
Exercise Level: Intermediate/Advanced


“Authentic ballet class experience. It’s easy to pick up the moves.” Fitness Magazine
Beautifully produced by Melissa Lowe, a professional ballet soloist and professor of dance. You’ll increase flexibility and tone your body by practicing classical ballet movements to live piano music. It features two separate workouts. Each one starts with floor stretches, then moves to barrework: holding-on-to-a-barre toning (from demi-pliés to Grand Rond de Jambe en l’air). Finally in the centerwork, you’re standing alone performing Pas de Bourree, Adagio and Saute-Echappé. Requires a barre or high-backed chair. Previous ballet experience (or the Ballet Workout I) is suggested. For another advanced ballet workout, see The New Ballet Workout.


http://www.collagevideo.com/in-stock-videos/2044.htm

[Bignbuff]

SDFlipStyle

Enough BSing in this thread...I've gotten tons of reported posts about you.

[derekmac]

SDFlipStyle

Enough BSing in this thread...I've gotten tons of reported posts about you.

I just had to delete 3 pages of this ****...any more off topic posts in this thread will result in a temp ban. Quit messing up people's threads :mad:

[Ev884]

Day 8 (Rest / Cardio) -
Comments please!


...........um sorry to break it to you, but there is only 7 days in the week sparky.